Progress slow and frustrating...

[Aslan]

I'm sure many other beginners (or even former beginners) can commiserate...but it is SO frustrating that every time I practice or bowl at leagues now...it's a 420-465 series. It's like my progress has just grinded to a halt. I try to stay positive...and remind myself that before August I averaged 121 with a high game of 184...and was routinely throwing games in the 90s...and I've brought that lifetime average up to 138 in less than 5 months.

But man...it seems like lately I've become more consistent...but it's consistently throwing a 140-160-130....160-150-120....145-155-130....etc... Is it too much to ask for a 500 series?? I don't want to sound ungrateful or impatient (although...I AM impatient)...having gone in 5 months from throwing 363 series to 445...but I feel like I'm stuck on some funky plateau. :mad:

Anybody that can relate?

[e-tank]

Maybe time to add some more sessions with your coach?

[J Anderson]

My suggestion is to stop judging your progress by your scores.

I always get goals and objectives confused. Whatever the correct term is, it should be measurable so you can see whether you've improved or not. Unfortunately this makes raising one's average by X number of pins the the easiest goal to keep track of. It may tell you if you're getting better, but if you're not getting better it won't tell you why.

In addition you need to set goals that address specific problems with your game. It may be something like going from 50% on shooting spares to 75% or trying to throw every shot within + or - 1/2 mph of a given speed. This way you may be able to come away with a positive feeling about part of your game even if the scores are still mediocre. Or you'll know that need to work on some thing specific , life left side spares.

[zdawg]

...but I feel like I'm stuck on some funky plateau. :mad:

Anybody that can relate?

Yep, I'm right there with you. For me continuing to practice on my own has me spinning my wheels the last two weeks especially, so I had a visit to my coach this morning and that helped tremendously - having anyone with a trained eye helps IMO, otherwise I just keep doing the same thing or reading something new online and then trying it to no avail, so then you end up going in circles.

I also think plateaus are a natural part of any athletic progression, so its just a matter of finding someone who can advise you to get to the next level

[zdawg]

Oh, and to second what J Anderson posted, I stopped keeping score during practice sessions altogether, of course during league its a different story

[Aslan]

My main goals at this point are:

Clean games…525+ Series.

So I'm not trying to score high per se…I just want clean games in terms of both striking more often (thus not needing to pick up spares) and picking up more spares. I HAVE noticed more striking…like about 5 per game versus 1-2 in the past. But I haven't noticed as much the spare situation because one minute I'll be picking them up almost automatically….then the next game I'll miss 70% of them. So I guess "consistency" isn't there yet. :(

[J Anderson]

My main goals at this point are:

Clean games…525+ Series.

So I'm not trying to score high per se…I just want clean games in terms of both striking more often (thus not needing to pick up spares) and picking up more spares. I HAVE noticed more striking…like about 5 per game versus 1-2 in the past. But I haven't noticed as much the spare situation because one minute I'll be picking them up almost automatically….then the next game I'll miss 70% of them. So I guess "consistency" isn't there yet. :(

I know that in league it can be difficult to analyze your shot making, between the beer, the socializing, the beer, the pressure of competition, the beer, etc.;) On those games when the spare making stinks, try to keep track of which ones are giving you the most trouble. Then the next time you practice you can work on those spares.

Obviously if the problem spare is a corner pin you can try shooting that pin out of a full rack. That will also work for any of the front pins; the 4, 2, 3, & 6. The 1 & 5 pins are just your strike shot. The 8 & 9 are a little tougher to practice but you can figure it out based on how you shoot at them. Multi-pin spares you need to figure out what the key pin is and practice hitting that.

[SouthpawTRK]

I can relate to your situation Asian; I too would like to be consistently above a 500 pin count rather than below it. A friend asked me if I wanted to be the best 150 average bowler in the world or be the best bowler I could be. Obviously my answer was the latter of the two choices. He stated that if I picked up my spares (that were reasonable) that I would elevate my average and would be on the path to higher scores. Obviously there are a multitude of things to do to become the best bowler you can be, but picking up spares could raise your average very easily.

[Aslan]

I know that in league it can be difficult to analyze your shot making, between the beer, the socializing, the beer, the pressure of competition, the beer, etc.;) On those games when the spare making stinks, try to keep track of which ones are giving you the most trouble. Then the next time you practice you can work on those spares.

Obviously if the problem spare is a corner pin you can try shooting that pin out of a full rack. That will also work for any of the front pins; the 4, 2, 3, & 6. The 1 & 5 pins are just your strike shot. The 8 & 9 are a little tougher to practice but you can figure it out based on how you shoot at them. Multi-pin spares you need to figure out what the key pin is and practice hitting that.

My most difficult spare leave is easily anything with a sleeper (not counting splits and baby splits). A 16lb ball has helped regarding sleepers, but they are still my worst.

Next worst is either the 1-2-4-7, 1-2-4, 2-4-7, 3-6-10. I used to better at them, but recently have fell into a bad habit of chopping them in some way.

I've gotten much better with the single pins including corners.

My biggest problem with "leaves" presently is the 1-2-4-7-10. Because I struggle to get enough of a dramatic hook on the back end..if I'm playing moderate to heavy oil synthetics and I miss my target by more than 1 board to the right...I come in right of the headpin and go straight through leaving the 1-2-4-7-10 lined up. And I've really struggled not only with leaving that grouping but also with picking it up. And the 16lb ball seems to have led to more of those leaves because my 15lb ball tended to deflect a tad more and not leave that 10 on the opposite side.

[Aslan]

I can relate to your situation Asian;

I am SO not Asian. See my videos...I'm 6 feet tall and weigh about 215lbs. Thats 189cm and 97.5kg for nerds and people that hate freedom. <----See what the lack of left wing radio shows does!! Believe me...I play in alleys where there are a large concentration of Asian bowlers...and when I show up they look at me like I'm Godzilla.



He stated that if I picked up my spares (that were reasonable) that I would elevate my average and would be on the path to higher scores. Obviously there are a multitude of things to do to become the best bowler you can be, but picking up spares could raise your average very easily.

Agreed. And that HAS been the main driver. I still get frustrated when my spare shooting is good and I end up with like a 165...because I can't string 2 strikes together...but I'm firmly in the camp of better spare shooting makes you a better bowler for sure.

[Mudpuppy]

I started bowling was I was 22 years old. I carried a 118 average. It took me many years to bring that average slowly, painfully slow, up. I ended up plateauing at 185 and I was stuck there for awhile - then I figured it out. I wasn't having any fun anymore - too competitive of leagues where you miss a single spare and lose a game or maybe a series. I went to a more casual league the next year and my average shot up to 195, then 199, then 205, then 209 and the last year I bowled before starting back up this year I carried a 202.

1. Don't get mad, frustrated or down about it - that will only make it harder
2. Don't try a new technique or approach 1 time, 10 times or 100 times - try it 1,000 before you find out it doesn't work
3. Buy beer for bowlers with averages exceeding 190 and ask them for tips
4. Be patient - not everyone has Iceman DNA and can just pick up the ball and start throwing 600 series. Actually the vast majority is the opposite.

[Aslan]

4. Be patient - not everyone has Iceman DNA and can just pick up the ball and start throwing 600 series. Actually the vast majority is the opposite.

But a boy can dream...a boy CAN dream. I find myself on many a approach just repeating under my breath..."BE the Iceman....BE the Iceman."

[Mudpuppy]

You can also use the 4-7-8 approach - not the pins, boards or anything else for that matter. Inhale 4 seconds, hold 7 seconds and exhale 8 seconds. That right there is something that relieves anxiety and helps you focus. Used by law enforcement, military, NASA, etc.

[Aslan]

You can also use the 4-7-8 approach - used by NASA, etc.

Great...so it'll relax me but immediately increase my anxiety regarding the fear of spontaneously bursting into flames upon re-entry. Yet another thing to worry about!

Although it beats Iceman's advice of hold breath indefinitely.

[J Anderson]

My most difficult spare leave is easily anything with a sleeper (not counting splits and baby splits). A 16lb ball has helped regarding sleepers, but they are still my worst.

Next worst is either the 1-2-4-7, 1-2-4, 2-4-7, 3-6-10. I used to better at them, but recently have fell into a bad habit of chopping them in some way.

I've gotten much better with the single pins including corners.

My biggest problem with "leaves" presently is the 1-2-4-7-10. Because I struggle to get enough of a dramatic hook on the back end..if I'm playing moderate to heavy oil synthetics and I miss my target by more than 1 board to the right...I come in right of the headpin and go straight through leaving the 1-2-4-7-10 lined up. And I've really struggled not only with leaving that grouping but also with picking it up. And the 16lb ball seems to have led to more of those leaves because my 15lb ball tended to deflect a tad more and not leave that 10 on the opposite side.

The 1-2-4-7 is one of the few spares that I throw a hook at. When you go straight at the space between the 1 & 2 there's a 50% chance you won't carry the 7. If you aim at the 2 pin there's a better chance of taking down the 7 at the risk of missing the 1. You really shouldn't be missing the head pin very often. Perhaps a goal of hitting the pocket 9 out of ten times is in order.

Washouts like the 1-2-4-7-10 are tough even for the pros. I remember hearing that the odds of a pro converting a baby split are about 50/50. For washouts I imagine it's more like 40/60. I usually try to throw straight down the 23rd board to try and kick the 1 into the ten.

[bowl1820]

Washouts like the 1-2-4-7-10 are tough even for the pros. I remember hearing that the odds of a pro converting a baby split are about 50/50. For washouts I imagine it's more like 40/60. I usually try to throw straight down the 23rd board to try and kick the 1 into the ten.


From Rob Mautner about the shadow pin spare system:

If however, you are trying to convert a washout, the angle that you need to propel the head pin is smaller if you go straight up the fifth arrow, than if you hook the ball to throw the head pin into the ten. Smaller angle = greater chance of conversion. I don't usually keep track, but Norm Duke told me that the difference in going straight up the fifth arrow versus hooking the ball to the left of the head pin is 59% versus 30%.

[Greene3417]

I guess I'm in the same boat. I love bowling and I guess I have been watching my scores too much as well. I am reconstructing my game, but yet teaching myself along the way. My average has come down a bit (from about a 160 to a 130) after finally dedicating myself to practicing with the hopes of getting into a league one day. I want to be the best bowler I can be, but I guess my more immediate goal is not embarrassing myself in league play if I get up the courage to join.

I topped out before taking my game apart and tanked from there. I think I worked out some kinks, but need to watch technique and spares/ leaves more than score. I wish I could have a bowling alley in my house, but since I won't win the lottery in my lifetime, I guess I have to work on it on the weekends when my wife lets me...

[Mudpuppy]

Great...so it'll relax me but immediately increase my anxiety regarding the fear of spontaneously bursting into flames upon re-entry. Yet another thing to worry about!

Although it beats Iceman's advice of hold breath indefinitely.

Please disregard my last post and use Iceman's advice instead - get back to us in a year or two and let us know how holding your breath indefinitely is working out. Thank you, come again.

[Hampe]

Like I've told you before....just be patient! Mudpuppy's right....not everybody is like Iceman and starts rolling over 200 avg and 300 games in their second season. I didn't have a 500 series my first season either. And I only had 2 of them (out of 27 series) in my second season. Since I started taking bowling more seriously (playing at least 2 times a week) it's still taken me 4-5 years to get to 200 avg. It's not easy!

But I disagree with Mudpuppy about one thing....DON'T ask other bowlers for tips (you can ask them for general advice like we usually talk about on the forums here, but not about your form). If you ask good bowlers around your area to help you with your form you will get 20 different responses and it will just confuse you. Find one good coach and work with him on a regular basis. I've made a lot more progress in less than a year working with a real coach than I did in 4 years listening to other bowlers.

Those are the 3 best tips I can give you to improve:
1) BE PATIENT
2) Get a coach, and work with him on a regular basis
3) When you practice, don't just go there and roll a few games and look at your score......practice the things you are bad at. If you can't hit the corner pins, then spend a few games each practice session only shooting at the corner pins. Can't hit the pocket? Then spend a few games each session just shooting for the pocket and ignoring spare leaves. Take a notebook with you and keep track of your success when practicing these things (i.e. 13/20 10 pins today etc.). That's best way to tell if you're improving or not.

[zdawg]

3) When you practice, don't just go there and roll a few games and look at your score......practice the things you are bad at. If you can't hit the corner pins, then spend a few games each practice session only shooting at the corner pins.

Excellent advice, my last game during a practice session I try to hit the 10 pin and only the 10 pin on my first ball, and the 7 pin and only the 7 pin on the second ball. My goal is to eventually bowl a "perfect" game of 22, but it is MUCH harder than it sounds LOL

[Aslan]

Excellent advice, my last game during a practice session I try to hit the 10 pin and only the 10 pin on my first ball, and the 7 pin and only the 7 pin on the second ball. My goal is to eventually bowl a "perfect" game of 22, but it is MUCH harder than it sounds LOL

That sounds interesting.

I don't think corner pins are a problem right now. I think my biggest "frustration" at this point is trying to consistently hit that pocket under varying lane conditions. I no longer will be bowling on anything but low-oil wood until March...so hopefully I'll see better results for the next few months. If I can consistently hit the pocket and leave just single 5s,7s, 10s...I think I'll start seeing more 525+ series. But like last night...slick, heavy oil synthetic lanes...it took 2 games to figure out the lanes and hit the pocket. First game < 120. Second game < 130. Third game just shy of 160. But it took 2 WHOLE GAMEs to figure out what to do. Left lane completely different than the right lane. On the right lane I had to stand right of center and throw straight up the 12-board. On the left lane, I had to slow it down, stand left of center, and throw out towards the 9-board.

The problem...and the reason I vary where I bowl so much...is my league ends in March and sweeps in Vegas. Well...Vegas is likely to have moderate oil synthetics...so no matter how much I raise my average on wood/low-oil lanes...I'm gonna need to adapt come March. Money will be on the line. AND...with the wood lanes being replaced in May 2014...I want to get a head start on adapting to the new conditions. BELIEVE ME....believe me....there are some guys bowling in my current center...wood lanes/low oil...that are going to struggle MIGHTILY when things change over. Those guys are FIRING that ball at 21mph up the side and it hooks back to the headpin. Lots of higher loft bowlers. When the lanes switch...they are all gonna have to figure out how to use more of the lane like I have been working on...gonna be interesting to see how some of the 200+ average guys who ONLY bowl at that center do under those new conditions. :eek:

[Aslan]

STILL frustrating!!

So pre-league…I bowl a few games…start off with my highest ever game…235. So I'm thinking all the video and internet and bowling on TV…all the studying…all the practice…that it has finally payed off and started reaping rewards.

Then I bowl a 115…

I bounce back…and bowl a 145, then league starts and I bowl a 150, 160, 169.

And there is the frustration. A 495 series and a 479 series. And the dang 479 series was 7 pins below my average. Seemed like I was doing okay…hitting the headpin and all. Spare shooting started off solid and then trailed off a bit.

SO here I am…midway through the season. 11 weeks down, 11 weeks to go. My goal was a 190 average at season's end. Currently at 162. To reach my goal, I need to average 219 per game for the next 11 weeks. Thats about a 657 series per week…which is 50 pins higher than my highest series to date.

If I just settle for finishing at an "average" level…the "average league bowler"…I need a 175 average which means I need to average about a 189 per game or approximately a 567 series per night.

Yet…despite the occasional 600 series…occasional 500 series…I am still STUCK with 400 series nearly every time. On a bad night, 400-450. On a really bad night…high 300s. On an "okay" night, high 400s. On the rare "good" night…low 500s.

Maybe it's time for a lesson with someone i haven't tried yet. My first coach was inexpensive but had me high lofting it. Working with Barry at the clinic has helped me with a more traditional release…more relaxed…but it's hard to get really better with 2 minutes of lesson time once per week. Even with greatness as the instructor. And I hate to get yet another coach to tell me yet ANOTHER different way I'm "supposed to" bowl. But…flip side..if I'm gonna even come close to my goal by the end of March…gotta do SOMEthing…!!

[J Anderson]

STILL frustrating!!


SO here I am…midway through the season. 11 weeks down, 11 weeks to go. My goal was a 190 average at season's end. Currently at 162. To reach my goal, I need to average 219 per game for the next 11 weeks. Thats about a 657 series per week…which is 50 pins higher than my highest series to date.

If I just settle for finishing at an "average" level…the "average league bowler"…I need a 175 average which means I need to average about a 189 per game or approximately a 567 series per night.

First I thought your goal was clean games and 525+ series.

Second, considering your initial average was somewhere south of 150 to finish the season with a 190 average was never realistic. It's rare to see some one's average increase more than 25 pins in the course of a season. Once you pass the half way point there are just too many games already bowled to make a big jump.

My suggestion is to re-word your goals and start smaller or rather shorter term. For example you could shoot for 500+ series for the next 3 weeks then raise the bar to 510+ for three weeks in a row. If you can get to the point where you average 175 for the last five weeks of league you have made it to mediocrity. When you start your next league you will most likely be hitting around 175 most games.

[bowl1820]

my league ends in March and sweeps in Vegas.

Sweeps in Vegas, you know what center they'll be at? maybe you could talk to Rob Mautner while there, he bowls in Vegas.

[Aslan]

Sweeps in Vegas, you know what center they'll be at? maybe you could talk to Rob Mautner while there, he bowls in Vegas.

Lesson 1: Buy 3-ball roller bag.
Lesson 2: Fill with 3 bowling balls.

Lesson 3: Repeat Lessons 1 and 2 until you own every ball for all conditions imaginable.

[bowl1820]

Lesson 1: Buy 3-ball roller bag.
Lesson 2: Fill with 3 bowling balls.

Lesson 3: Repeat Lessons 1 and 2 until you own every ball for all conditions imaginable.

Heheh That's right! You'll never understand that nobody is saying everyone needs dozens of balls.

As I figured you wouldn't answer the question, "Sweeps in Vegas, you know what center they'll be at?"

[dnhoffman]

Good to see I not missing anything, lol.

[dpatrickv]

There is nothing wrong with multiple balls for lane conditions. I have 4(light/med/heavy oil ball and then a spare plastic ball) and typically carry 3 depending where Im bowling at. The main alley I throw at now is heavy oil so I carry my most aggressive ball, my medium oil ball if they start breaking down and then a spare ball for anything on the right side of the head pin.

[Aslan]

Heheh That's right! You'll never understand that nobody is saying everyone needs dozens of balls.

As I figured you wouldn't answer the question, "Sweeps in Vegas, you know what center they'll be at?"

Settle down Sparky. You made a "joke"…poked fun…I respond…poking fun. And…Hoff came in to add nothing to the conversation…but all in fun. I was just commenting on what the original post was about. If we wanna beat the "multiple ball horse"…feel free to start that thread and I'll comment.

And I think the center is…checking…nope, it's "The Orleans". I thought it was Sam's Town…but nope; "The Orleans". I've never been to Vegas so not sure if I can answer too many other questions about it. Hopefully that satisfies your curiosity??

[Aslan]

First I thought your goal was clean games and 525+ series.

And yes, thats still my goal every time. Honestly…despite missing my 190 goal…I would be happy with 3 clean games or a 525+ series. Having both goals is helpful because when you get a split or miss a spare…I can still tell myself, "that's okay…525 is still in play." And same goes for the opposite…if I have a couple rough games and am going to miss that 525 mark; I can say, "thats okay…just bowl a clean game." Same thing when I don't strike…"it's okay…clean game."

The good news lately is in the last 55 games (all bowled at one center with one ball) I've averaged over 165. The bad news is…it's a very normal distribution…very "slight" slope to the trend line. So it's hard to tell graphically if I'm just "better than before" or if I'm making progress. And I can't rely on my league average because in week one I rolled one of my highest series (at the time my highest)…so kinda hard in a handicap league when ya start out like that!

But…as it was mentioned before…PATIENCE. 5 months ago I bowled twice a year and averaged 120. 4 months ago I was rolling 350-420 series. Now I'm rolling in the high 400s to mid-500s. 4 months ago I bowled my first ever clean game. Now I'm up to 7. Patience Daniel-Sun…patience.

[tr33frog]

How often are you bowling three games right before league, I'm just wondering if fatigue might be an issue.

[Aslan]

How often are you bowling three games right before league, I'm just wondering if fatigue might be an issue.

I'm kind've a machine when it comes to that. As long as I'm not high lofting and throwing at a 19-21mph speed…I can usually bowl at LEAST 5-6 games before any fatigue sets in. Especially practice games. I bowl 12 games every Monday. I usually bowl 1-3 before league play and then 3 games for league.

Now…I did once bowl 3 games and then make-up bowl 3 -games AFTER league…and that kinda sucked. I think league games take a lot more out of you "mentally" than practice games. Physical fatigue isn't an issue. I'm in good shape, athletic, a runner. But league games just are mentally exhausting and after 3 of those I'm just "mentally done". Something I have to work on if I'm gonna ever do tournaments where you have to bowl 5-9 games in a round. Physically…10-12 is about where I draw the line. I've done as many as 21-22…but really, once I get over 12-15…my body is physically "done" and by that point I'm usually mentally "done" as well. My old coach used to get annoyed if I'd do 10 or more in succession. He used to say there's really no point…once ya hit 10 games you're mentally/physically exhausted. But…I think that can vary from one person to another…a little bit.

[sprocket]

I just did the math and to get my average from 154 in 1982 to 217 in 1990 I bowled about 20,000 games of practice. BUT at least 90% of those were wasted games that had no impact on my average. It's one of my great regrets in life that I wasted so much time and money to get the same results that I could have got with 90% less games and constant lessons. In fact I would have been WAY better off today. When I averaged 217 the first time, I used my thumb. Sometime after that bad habits and wrist pain from an unsustainable technique caused me to try thumbless rather than taking continuous lessons. I have no problem with the thumbless style but the simple fact is that I once averaged 217 on more difficult conditions using my thumb. I never will average that high again with the style I had then because it relied on a physical game that was unsustainable as I got older. How sustainable is thumbless? Well I average 217 two seasons ago but now average about 202. I really can't say for sure at this point.

Why didn't I take more lessons? Was I one of those "unteachable" guys? NO, not at all. I'm very teachable. If I trust my instructor I will follow his instructions to the best of my ability. He can tear my game apart and not hurt my feelings at all. The reason I bowled so much without any real purpose was because I WAS BORED. Bowling was FUN. I JUST DID IT. I would get up as a single guy and just go bowling for fun. I should have found some better hobbies. Like women maybe. No wonder I didn't get married until I was 27.

Aslan, don't make the mistakes I did. Get a coach that has an excellent reputation. LISTEN TO HIM. DO WHAT HE SAYS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE IT. Accept that and you will be surprised how quickly you improve.

[Aslan]

Aslan, don't make the mistakes I did. Get a coach that has an excellent reputation. LISTEN TO HIM. DO WHAT HE SAYS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE IT. Accept that and you will be surprised how quickly you improve.

I'm going to look into it. Money is a little tight right now, but when I get some breathing room I'm gonna look into lessons. The problem I've had so far with "lessons" is that the advice seems to vary from coach to coach and book to book. You can watch a USBC Open and see crankers, tweeners, strokers, and even a couple 2-handers. Guys releasing at the bottom of their arc and guys releasing with a higher loft. Guys starting the ball at waist level and guys starting the ball at head level. 3-step approaches, 4-step approaches, 6-7 step approaches. Pushing the ball out with the first step versus a hinged start. I even saw a couple guys recently that started on the right side of the approach, then drifted to the left side of the approach…which seemed odd.

Take my example for instance. I read the "PBA Guide to Better Bowling". Gives you the very traditional way to bowl. My first lessons were with a Bronze level certified pro…who had a rather odd way of delivery. A very straight up and down…high loft approach.

I then went to a clinic and got some instruction from HOFer Barry Asher. He got me to slow down my approach, make it smoother with less energy…less athletic. A more traditional approach and release.

Both taught me things that have helped my game immensely. And both are good bowlers. Obviously Barry is..top 50 PBA bowler of all-time. And the Bronze level coach averages 190-210 every year. Neither are "wrong". It took me time to realize that the approach the bronze level coach taught me was an approach that works good on wood/lower oil lanes. Higher speed, higher loft, a lesser ball…the ball will still make it back to the pocket. However, that didn't work well when I ventured to other alleys with synthetic lanes and heavier oil. And thats where Barry's help came in. By slowing things down…releasing earlier…I was able to use more of the lane and still get some hook. Also added a stronger ball to make it easier.

So it isn't that I'm "hard to coach"…it's that in the game of bowling…you have SO many different styles. And if one is right…then there's a LOT of people that are wrong. One book says you need to do one thing…then there are a few other books out there with interesting new techniques…like 2-handed bowling or 3-point targeting. So with so many styles…and variations…It'll be interesting to see what the new coach tries to teach. And will it contradict what I was taught before?

Some things that I learned from one coach versus the other have been very similar. For example…shortening my approach and started with the ball at waist level rather than a higher arc. Also, slowing it down. But then there have been big differences as well…such as the higher loft/stand-up release versus the lower/more standard "plane landing" release. So, it'll be interesting to see what coach #3 says. But you're right about them seeing things we can't. I was amazed when coach #1 showed me a video of my approach…I literally had both feet off the ground at one point and my backswing was well above head level. If someone asked me if I did that…I'd have said "of course not".

[tccstudent]

Guys releasing at the bottom of their arc and guys releasing with a higher loft. Guys starting the ball at waist level and guys starting the ball at head level. Pushing the ball out with the first step versus a hinged start. .

You will discover with more experience there is no right or wrong concerning these they are all different adjustments they can be used. Releasing at the bottom of the arc put the ball on the lane sooner and allows the ball more time to slow down before it hits the breakpoint you want to use this on heavier oil. Lofting is to be used on drier conditions. Position of the ball whether at waist level or lower or higher is to change ball speed the higher you hold it the harder you throw.

[Aslan]

The one thing both coaches agreed on…they both said, "…you're throwing plenty hard…you don't need to throw harder." My first coach, during leagues, was watching me and said, "you're still throwing too hard. You may not realize it…but you have one of the highest speeds, if not THE highest, in the entire league. You don't need more speed."

And they were right. I never realized it. Partly because the monitors in our center don't display your speed. And I thought I was throwing slower than most of the fellow league members. But, they were right. Takes others to see it sometimes.