Two handed bowling

[krash11554]

Hi i am 16 years old and recently converted to two handed bowling. first off the main reason is because i got into so many bad habits with 1 hand and i was loosing interest in bowling but then tried two hands i had the fire again to bowl. So ive been trying to do it like jason belmonte. PErsonally i think hes the best. So here a video of the most recent bowling i have. Any suggestions throw them at me. Also im using finger tipp and when i put my fingers in the ball i tend to move my hand a little to the right because i feel like i have more support with ball so idk if thts right or wrong. So if any has any knowledge please let me know.
Thanks!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1mmrbm09k36tsn/Bowling.mp4

[sprocket]

I'll give you my two cents.

Watch the you tube videos of Belmonte. Particularly there is one that compares Belmonte to Osku. Both have far more spine tilt at the line than you do. The spine tilt creates a much longer flat spot at the bottom so their swings planes are much flatter than yours. I actually like Osku's delivery a little better even though Belmonte is the better bowler. Osku drives of the front of his right foot but Belmonte drives off the side of his foot. Your right foot is turned out like Belmonte's. You plant and pull I think due to a lack of spine tilt. You tend to fall off to the right. I notice that your head is actually right of the ball at the top. I'm not sure if that is a factor or not but it might indicate that your balance is leaning a little right and therefore you sometimes fall off to the right.

Overall I think you look pretty good. If the ball is comfortable in your hand then it is probably right. I assume you would tend to hold the ball so that it sits the flattest in your palm with both your gripping fingers feeling like they are spanned equally.

BTW I am not a coach. I can only watch and compare and I could be wrong.

[krash11554]

I've been trying to bend down more i have a video from about 3 weeks ago where my back is a lot straighter so you think I should try to bend more ?

[Aslan]

As with thumbless; the key is going to be your ability to pick up spares and since you're relying on high revolutions…how you adapt to different and changing oil patterns.

[krash11554]

i bowl for highschool so my coach is teaching me how to adapt to changing oil patterns so thats covered. But these clips i was trying trying different things to see how they feel and how they look. If anyone knows what would more bending do? Will it make my ball speed increase? This next video was when i just started so you can see the differences.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ulf7sdlrr7ft1ho/Two%20hands%20the%20Beggining.MOV

[sprocket]

More spine tilt will create a flatter swing plane. The ball will have a longer sweet spot at the bottom and the ball will be propelled parallel to the lane and land smoothly. Will speed increase? Probably because there is a longer acceleration zone at the bottom and I think the legs are in a position for more leverage.

Don't ask me how they do it though. I can tell you what I observe and can see the differences but I am not a coach so telling you how to make the changes is not something I know much about. Again, my observations may not be quite right either but I haven't seen anyone jumping in yet with a different take on the situation.

And Aslan is right out spare shooting particularly with right corner spares. The left side spares on a THS you should be able to figure out how to create as much area as possible using the dry boards and hooking the ball. For example if you get lined up correctly for the 7 pin you might be able to miss several boards at the arrows in either direction and still pick it up. The right corner spares are going to require you to be accurate and throw the ball pretty straight.

[krash11554]

More spine tilt will create a flatter swing plane. The ball will have a longer sweet spot at the bottom and the ball will be propelled parallel to the lane and land smoothly. Will speed increase? Probably because there is a longer acceleration zone at the bottom and I think the legs are in a position for more leverage.

Don't ask me how they do it though. I can tell you what I observe and can see the differences but I am not a coach so telling you how to make the changes is not something I know much about. Again, my observations may not be quite right either but I haven't seen anyone jumping in yet with a different take on the situation.

And Aslan is right out spare shooting particularly with right corner spares. The left side spares on a THS you should be able to figure out how to create as much area as possible using the dry boards and hooking the ball. For example if you get lined up correctly for the 7 pin you might be able to miss several boards at the arrows in either direction and still pick it up. The right corner spares are going to require you to be accurate and throw the ball pretty straight.

First i just want to say thanks for replying and it looks like im the same as most two handers untill the bend. As i have been watching more two handers it looks like they really start to bend when the ball just passes there waist on the backswing. So like this picture with Jason.
1110

[krash11554]

Vs me like this
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrq1s9xo0j44iye/Bowling.mp4.Still001.jpg

[J Anderson]

Vs me like this
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrq1s9xo0j44iye/Bowling.mp4.Still001.jpg

Looking at the still picture you look like you've got a good knee bend. watching the video I wasn't seeing it, especially in the second one, probably because you tend to pop back up at the line. You want to stay down with the shot and be in balance as you come to a stop and watch how your ball tracks down the lane.

[krash11554]

Looking at the still picture you look like you've got a good knee bend. watching the video I wasn't seeing it, especially in the second one, probably because you tend to pop back up at the line. You want to stay down with the shot and be in balance as you come to a stop and watch how your ball tracks down the lane.
Gotcha well the second video was like the first time trying by myself. Soo I dont really expect a lot from it. But I still would like to bend down a little more

[sprocket]

Yeah it kind of looks like your slide foot need to be more out front with less knee bend at that point and also leaning more forward from the waist. From the position Jason is in he does get into more knee bend after that point and that is called knee continuation. As he finishes his approach his knee continues forward and his body catches up to it bringing him to a nice smooth stop. He doesn't have to lurch to a stop because his body still has someplace to go during the release, if that makes any sense.

Notice also what I said about Belmo coming off the side of his non-slide foot. I'm not so sure that isn't a bit of a flaw is his game. Obviously it works for him. I can imagine it tending to push him off line but apparently it doesn't. I'll bet if you found a still of Osku in that same position his foot wouldn't be like that.

[krash11554]

The thing im was thinking is that my timing is different then jasons. When his front foot is at the line he still has to finish the release vs me which i dont know how to explain but if you look at the pictures you can tell. Im not a 100% sure but i might start moving the ball earlier then jason. I start moving the ball after the first step vs jason he starts moving after the 2nd, well atleast i think he does. My main goal as of now is to bend down more. So if you have any suggestions please tell me.

[striker12]

1 thing i see you doing witch will mess up your ball reaction is you drop the ball on your release my brother is also a 2 handed bowler and he dropped the ball a lot and he never had a consistent hook on his ball because the ball was losing energy when he dropped the ball.

i spent a lot of time with my brother with videos of jason and you can see jason pushes the ball out at the bottom so it dose not drop on the lane it will land on the lane a bit past the foul line witch helps with the consistency in the hook i also asked jason this as well.

and my brother has been pushing the ball out more at the release and he has been getting alot better hook and more control. so if you work on a little more push out at the release you will be alot more control of the ball and you will start seeing some high games coming

[sprocket]

The reason Jason can push the ball at the bottom is because his swing plane during release is very flat. The ball is parallel to the floor for a long distance. His spine tilt and the position of his legs allows him to do that. You can't just want to push the ball and then it happens. It has to be the product of something else changing. Otherwise the sweet spot is just way too small and everything has to occur just perfect in order to get the ball onto the lane smoothly. Just a tiny little error and the ball will hit the lane hard.

*also* It appears that I was wrong about Jason's knee bend. He never really does get a whole lot of knee bend. Here's a link to the video I talked about earlier. It explains the two handed delivery better than I have. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egPrzCe4DSQ

[Aslan]

And Aslan is right out spare shooting particularly with right corner spares. The left side spares on a THS you should be able to figure out how to create as much area as possible using the dry boards and hooking the ball. For example if you get lined up correctly for the 7 pin you might be able to miss several boards at the arrows in either direction and still pick it up. The right corner spares are going to require you to be accurate and throw the ball pretty straight.

Thats what makes Osku and Belmonte so special and albe to do 2-handed at a high level. The advantage to that style, just like thumbless, is the rev rate and entry angle into the pocket. The disadvantage is…spare shooting and strange leaves. I've watched a lot of Belmo and bowled with and against some thumbless bowlers. The advantage is…when they are "on"…they're very difficult to beat. Disadvantage…when they don't strike. With that high rev angle…I've seen a lot of weird washout spares…where the ball gets too far down the lane before it starts to hook…misses the headpin and leaves something weird like 1-2-4-7-10.

Google "Wesley Low". He's a little closer to your age and has a very smooth delivery…and very successful.

[J Anderson]

Thats what makes Osku and Belmonte so special and albe to do 2-handed at a high level. The advantage to that style, just like thumbless, is the rev rate and entry angle into the pocket.

I think that Osku shoots corner pins one handed.

[Aslan]

I think that Osku shoots corner pins one handed.

He might. I honestly haven't watched much of him bowling. A little bit of Belmonte and I know Belmo shoots corner pins 2-handed.

[sprocket]

He might. I honestly haven't watched much of him bowling. A little bit of Belmonte and I know Belmo shoots corner pins 2-handed.

You don't know what you're missing. He throws his spares one handed about 100mph. I've never seen anyone throw the ball harder. I'm surprised he doesn't break pins.

[krash11554]

So if you guys can just i guess compile the things wrong into like a list if your ok with doing that. i think that would really help me beacasue i can just look off the list and try to fix the things wrong.
Thanks guys

[J Anderson]

So if you guys can just i guess compile the things wrong into like a list if your ok with doing that. i think that would really help me beacasue i can just look off the list and try to fix the things wrong.
Thanks guys

No no, that's your job to go through all the posted answers, figure out which of us were giving you constructive criticism and which of us were just making stuff up that sounds plausible, and write up your list of things to fix.

Remember to always write positive things to do. In other words don't write not enough spinal tilt. Instead write use more forward spinal tilt.

[krash11554]

So im thinking that more forward spine tilt will help but i have ran into a problem when every i try to bend more i cant get the ball to the right. i dont have a video to show that now but if you guys have any idea why this would please say anything. Also if you think anything is wrong with my timing please say so
Thanks!!

[krash11554]

So When i was at the bowling alley today the proshop owener came out and was showing me a few things. One of them was how all two handed bowlers have late timing. This helps project the ball to the right. So he told me to push the ball up. Once he told me tht i dint have one ball go to the left. also he said getting to the line faster also is very important.