1st Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial ZDawg vs. Aslan Southern California Championship

[Aslan]

Longest title for a tournament EVER!! You're welcome.

I couldn't remember where we talked about our upcoming battle so I started this new thread. We can talk smack, post logistics, and eventually post write-ups, results, and maybe even a video or so.

Standard 3-game series. One game (5 frames each; alternating) warm-up. Coin flip for who goes first in warm-up. Another coin flip for who bowls first in game 1. Person who goes first in game 1 will go 2nd in game 2 and then 1st in game 3. ZDawg receives 10 pins per game handicap. Winner based on total pinfall. Tournament non-sanctioned however only USBC approved balls will be allowed. No bumpers.

No limit to number of balls you are allowed to bring with you and you ARE allowed to throw 2-handed and/or use a wrist guard…however bringing more than 4 balls, using a wrist guard, or bowling 2-handed WILL results in me teasing you relentlessly between frames.

Temecula Lanes, Temecula, CA. Did we decide on February 1st or March 1st? :confused:

Also, unless we can find a solution to be able to video the whole thing…I propose we video tape (using POS camera or cell phones as back-ups) every 3rd frame. So, frames 1, 4, 7, and 10. And of course, a short intro before we start, and a short closing message.

[zdawg]

Everything sounds good, I'll probably be bringing two balls unless I relent and buy a spare ball (at some point I will just not sure when).

March 1st weekend is what works best, and I like the title of the tourney as well. I'm thinking if all goes well we can either make this an annual event, or maybe inspire some fellow bowlingboards.com members to hold similar tourneys in their own cities.

Also, I'm gonna ask around and see if I can find somebody that has an actual video camera, I might even be able to find a friend who will ride up with me to take care of the video duties, although no promises there.

[Aslan]

I wanted to add "…Extravaganza" to the end but it exceeded thread title length restrictions.

Okay…March 1st it is!

I have 2 micro SD cards for my camera…so we should be okay doing 4 frames each per game. And add to that my cell phone and I'm sure you have a cell phone…so we'd be covered. But yeah…it would be nice to tape the whole thing. Granted…I doubt ANYONE on this entire website of the most dedicated of bowlers would sit down on an evening and watch a full 1-2 hours straight of Aslan and zdawg bowling.

But I will. I have no life…so I'll watch it over and over.

[zdawg]

I wanted to add "…Extravaganza" to the end but it exceeded thread title length restrictions.

Okay…March 1st it is!

I have 2 micro SD cards for my camera…so we should be okay doing 4 frames each per game. And add to that my cell phone and I'm sure you have a cell phone…so we'd be covered. But yeah…it would be nice to tape the whole thing. Granted…I doubt ANYONE on this entire website of the most dedicated of bowlers would sit down on an evening and watch a full 1-2 hours straight of Aslan and zdawg bowling.

But I will. I have no life…so I'll watch it over and over.

You and me both LOL

[Perrin]

This will be fun to watch. :)

[e-tank]

hey if this gets big enough maybe you can get bb to sponsor it lol

[Aslan]

hey if this gets big enough maybe you can get bb to sponsor it lol

You mean "bowlingboards" or "bowlingball.com"?

If you mean "bowlingboards"...I might remind you that "bowlingboards" as recently as a month ago was holding a popularity contest designed to ban me from ever participating in discussions on the site. Soooo...the odds of them sponsoring anything Aslan-related is like asking the US to sponsor an Ed Snowden fundraiser. OJ Simpson will be the spokesperson for anti-violence against women before this website will ever do that.

Maybe I could get BowlerX to put up a banner or something. Lord knows I've spent about $500 on that website buying bowling balls that currently reside undrilled in my closet.

[e-tank]

well considering bowlingball owns bowlingboards, there is no difference.

[zdawg]

You mean "bowlingboards" or "bowlingball.com"?

If you mean "bowlingboards"...I might remind you that "bowlingboards" as recently as a month ago was holding a popularity contest designed to ban me from ever participating in discussions on the site. Soooo...the odds of them sponsoring anything Aslan-related is like asking the US to sponsor an Ed Snowden fundraiser. OJ Simpson will be the spokesperson for anti-violence against women before this website will ever do that.

Maybe I could get BowlerX to put up a banner or something. Lord knows I've spent about $500 on that website buying bowling balls that currently reside undrilled in my closet.

Well I guess you'll just have to bowl your first 300 game, then they'll have no choice but to sponsor you :p

[Mudpuppy]

Aslan whatever you do when this is all over just give us the cliff notes / highlights. None of this 8 page breakdown of the day.

[Aslan]

Aslan whatever you do when this is all over just give us the cliff notes / highlights. None of this 8 page breakdown of the day.

Takes gun away from Mudpuppy's head (making him read things he doesn't want to). :rolleyes: :p

I'm sure the videos will be short (due to lack of real equipment). But I'm sure the write-up will be very "Aslan-esque". But I'll try to ablige ya.

[Blacksox1]

Please post a video on youtube. I will watch it. 5 minutes max. Use skillful editing !

[Aslan]

Settle down kids…the tournament of all tournaments is still nearly two months away. We're just creating a buzz…trying to stir up some sponsors…maybe get some air time on ESPN.

ESPN classic was replaying a tennis match from like 30 years ago…I gotta think that only got "slightly" more viewers than what a ZDawg V Aslan bowling battle would get.

[tccstudent]

ESPN classic was replaying a tennis match from like 30 years ago…I gotta think that only got "slightly" more viewers than what a ZDawg V Aslan bowling battle would get.
Were they female players and was any HOT if so I would rather watch them.

[Aslan]

Were they female players and was any HOT if so I would rather watch them.

While it is a "tad" insulting that you consider me and zdawg not "hot" enough...no...it was Micheal Chang against some guy from Europe.

[Aslan]

Less than 5 weeks remaining until the epic battle of good versus evil!! :eek:

ZDawg gets to be "good" because he's less hated. I get to be "evil"!! :cool:

Now, games are $5.25 each, so thats a total of 2 people at $5.25 per game = $31.50 PLUS the shared warm-up game (5 frames each) so that makes it $36.75/2 = $18.25 per person (I'll pick up the extra $0.25).

The other option is to reserve the lanes in the "VIP Bowling Area" but that's $75/2 hours. I don't think it's worth it if we can get 2 lanes to play against each other on in the non-VIP area for just over $18 a person.

On Saturdays they open at 11AM so I'm thinking if we aim for 11AM we won't have to worry about getting there at 1:00PM and finding out little Ricky is having a birthday party and all the lanes are taken. The week leading up the the epic event, I'll call the Lanes and just make sure that there isn't something weird going on like a tournament or some private party. And I'll try to sweeten em up to let them know that 2 celebrities are coming to their alley to bowl so hopefully we'll get A+ service/treatment.

Nuclear Option: IF something goes ary...and the week leading up we end up needing to change venues; venue B is Brunswick Cal Oaks Bowl in Murrieta. Venue C, if the bowling Gods are extra spiteful that particular day, would be Surf Bowl in Oceanside.

So, date/time: 11AM, Temecula Lanes, Saturday March 1st.

[zdawg]

Sounds good, I'll PM you my cell # in a minute, figure it won't hurt to have each other's contact info. Other than that, yeah the cheaper option is probably best unless the place is being rented out by a couple bday parties (not sure how big it is).

If we have to call an audible and change the venue that's cool too.

[Mudpuppy]

Can we get a live webcast?

[Aslan]

Can we get a live webcast?

I WISH!! I'll send Insidebowling an email telling them about the even and we'll see if they will bring their equipment out, set up, and cover it live.

If NOT...you can give us you phone number and we'll text you after every shot. We may even give you the "Mudpuppy package" and also text when we're ordering food, when one of passes gas, any trips to the bathroom, and of course any time a ball change is made.

[Mudpuppy]

I WISH!! I'll send Insidebowling an email telling them about the even and we'll see if they will bring their equipment out, set up, and cover it live.

If NOT...you can give us you phone number and we'll text you after every shot. We may even give you the "Mudpuppy package" and also text when we're ordering food, when one of passes gas, any trips to the bathroom, and of course any time a ball change is made.

In that case just do twitter updates. You can set up @zdawgvaslan and update real time. Maybe even get a text-ra-tary to do your updates.

[Aslan]

In that case just do twitter updates. You can set up @zdawgvaslan and update real time. Maybe even get a text-ra-tary to do your updates.

Twitter. I don't use twitter. What self respecting bowler "tweets"? Nope. Too oldschool for that. I finally gave in and have a Facebook page...but I'm not doing Twitter or 4square or anything like that. Nope.

[Mudpuppy]

Twitter. I don't use twitter. What self respecting bowler "tweets"? Nope. Too oldschool for that. I finally gave in and have a Facebook page...but I'm not doing Twitter or 4square or anything like that. Nope.

Get someone else to do it. I'm sure you will be too busy putting your fingers in a Dude or something.

[vdubtx]

Get someone else to do it. I'm sure you will be too busy putting your fingers in a Dude or something.

LOL

http://www.posterparty.com/images/tv-big-bang-theory-sheldon-bazinga-poster-TRrp1533.jpg

[Aslan]

Get someone else to do it. I'm sure you will be too busy putting your fingers in a Dude or something.

Or a Diva. Or a Diva Pearl. Practically any DV8 really.

[Aslan]

Less than one week away!!

[zdawg]

Less than one week away!!

Yep its the final countdown

[Mike White]

Yep its the final countdown

I'll bring my camera.

It claims to hold 2 hours in each 32 gig card (I have two of them) and I have 3 fully charged batteries.

Not sure how long a battery lasts since I haven't run one all the way down in one go.

I also have a tri-pod to eliminate shakey camera syndrome.

I'll bowl, if you consider me a 190 average (my injured ability)

Since the arm was strained, I've shot 560, 540, and 600.

I don't want risk throwing "old skool" because I plan on saving that for Monday. (sweeper night)

[Aslan]

I accept Mike's challenge.

Mike will give me 42 pins of average based on my 148 average (even though it's closer to 138-144 on synthetics). He will give zDawg 52 pins of handicap. And, most importantly, he will record the entire tournament/challenge on video.

I will make a call to the alley (Temecula) this week to try and make sure we have a good shot of getting a couple lanes and giving them a heads up that it's a super impressive awesome things and they should feel totally thrilled we chose their establishment.

Looking forward to it kids!!

[MICHAEL]

What about the mudpuppy challenge??? ,,,,, HOW ABOUT THAT ONE Aslan!! I liked that wager the best!!!

[Aslan]

What about the mudpuppy challenge??? ,,,,, HOW ABOUT THAT ONE Aslan!! I liked that wager the best!!!

You liked that wager because it was a sucker's bet. He travels 5000 miles and gives me no handicap and if he wins he gets $1000-$2000 but if I win I get nothing. Thats not even a bet...it's just wishful thinking.

[MICHAEL]

You liked that wager because it was a sucker's bet. He travels 5000 miles and gives me no handicap and if he wins he gets $1000-$2000 but if I win I get nothing. Thats not even a bet...it's just wishful thinking.


I am just saying,,,, THINK ABOUT IT!!! I thought it was a very FAIR bet!! Remember you are THE LION!!!
The money issue.... WHO CARES,,, its the GLORY OF VICTORY that gives reason for living!

THINK ABOUT IT, after you defeat MIKE!! LOL

[Mike White]

I am just saying,,,, THINK ABOUT IT!!! I thought it was a very FAIR bet!! Remember you are THE LION!!!
The money issue.... WHO CARES,,, its the GLORY OF VICTORY that gives reason for living!

THINK ABOUT IT, after you defeat MIKE!! LOL

After the whoopin I'm gonna apply on him, he won't be able to think for a long time.

How was that? Did it sound scary?

[Mike White]

You liked that wager because it was a sucker's bet. He travels 5000 miles and gives me no handicap and if he wins he gets $1000-$2000 but if I win I get nothing. Thats not even a bet...it's just wishful thinking.

You get to watch him buy his own ticket home, and leave with his tail between his legs.

Come on Aslan, where is your West Coast Pride..

He's a freakin flatlander.

Nothing but a prairie dog..

Go all Whack-A-Mole on his ***.

[Aslan]

After the whoopin I'm gonna apply on him, he won't be able to think for a long time.

How was that? Did it sound scary?

I think the best way to throw you off your game is every time you're between frames or shots to just say, "Rob Mautner would give this advice...INSERT RANDOM ADVICE".


You get to watch him buy his own ticket home, and leave with his tail between his legs.

Come on Aslan, where is your West Coast Pride..

He's a freakin flatlander.

Nothing but a prairie dog..

Go all Whack-A-Mole on his ***.

Technically, he lives in the same State I was born in, grew up in, went to college in, and spent nearly 90% of my life...so I can't get after him too much about that.

What it comes down to is...I only bet with money I can afford to lose. And due to the cost of living in this here greatest state on God's green Earth...I barely was able to get my "low gas" light to go out yesterday...so no money bets with Mudpup till I'm a bit more "flush".

[Mike White]

I accept Mike's challenge.

Mike will give me 42 pins of average based on my 148 average (even though it's closer to 138-144 on synthetics). He will give zDawg 52 pins of handicap. And, most importantly, he will record the entire tournament/challenge on video.

I will make a call to the alley (Temecula) this week to try and make sure we have a good shot of getting a couple lanes and giving them a heads up that it's a super impressive awesome things and they should feel totally thrilled we chose their establishment.

Looking forward to it kids!!


In Bag: (: .) Hammer Rhythm; (: .) Storm Frantic; (: .) Brunswick Slingshot || Retired: (: .) Columbia300 Blue Knight;
Lifetime Average = 145; || USBC Sanctioned Average = 166
Ball Speed: 14.7mph; Rev. Rate: 225rpm || High Game = 237; High Series = 650; Clean Games: 13
Smokey this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are Rules.

How do you figure you're a 148 average, while claiming your sanctioned average is 166?
You don't get to pick and choose what lane conditions you use to calculate your average, you use your highest.

Otherwise I want to use my last Saturday morning league average, since we will be bowling on a Saturday morning.
That was, um, a long time ago when I was still a junior bowler.

So I'll use 160.

[tccstudent]

And due to the cost of living in this here greatest state on God's green Earth...I barely was able to get my "low gas" light to go out yesterday..

When did you move to Oklahoma I thought you lived to California.

[Aslan]

How do you figure you're a 148 average, while claiming your sanctioned average is 166?
You don't get to pick and choose what lane conditions you use to calculate your average, you use your highest.

Otherwise I want to use my last Saturday morning league average, since we will be bowling on a Saturday morning.
That was, um, a long time ago when I was still a junior bowler.

So I'll use 160.

Whoa whoa whoa....your sanctioned average is 201....and you're wanting to use 190. How is that any different than my sanctioned average being 166 and me wanting to use 148??

I CAN'T in good conscience use 166 on synthetic lanes. My average in the league when I bowled synthetics was 138 at the end of the season. I'm adding 10 pins to that because I think I've gotten better. But I'll tell ya what....you're dropping your's 11 (201-190) and I'm dropping mine 18 (166-148). zdawg is totally sandbagging like mad....so we'll leave him out of the equation. What if I meet you in the middle and I'll use 149 and you can use 182? And zdawg can use 139. Now I'm STILL giving zdawg 10 pins...and you're only giving me 33 pins and zdawg 43.

See, if you're allowed to use 190, and I have to use 166...I get only 24 pins from you AND I have to GIVE zdawg 28! There's no way you nor I can beat zdawg if we spot him 52 and 28 pins respectively. Allowing zdawg to use 138 and you to use 190...but making me use 166 really only penalizes me. I'd have NO PROBLEM using 166 on wood lanes. And I'd SMOKE you AND zdawg even at 166!! But on synthetics where I had a 138 average?? It's insanity! Now, yes, in the recent tournament (on synthetics) I averaged 188. But that was TOURNAMENT atmosphere...me bringing my A+++ game!! AND...they didn't re-oil after round 1 so I was kinda "at home" on those lanes.

So, CURRENT proposal to set handicap (option 1) is:

zDawg: 139
Aslan: 149
MWhite: 182

Is that agreeable or do we need to negotiate further?? Using my Pinpal app....my average on ALL synthetic lanes (since I started using the APP) is 153. I'd be willing to go up to AS MUCH AS 153 with zdawg NO LOWER than 138 and MWhite giving (me) at LEAST 37 pins (190).

That makes it (option 2):
zdawg: 138
Aslan: 153
MWhite: 190

But 24 pins?? Come on!! A bowler of 37 years giving new bowlers of 6-9 months 24 pins?? And remember, if you choose option 2....you're closing the gap between you and I...but the downside is you're giving zdawg MUCH more and so am I. I think under option 2; zdawg is the clear favorite while under option 1...it's a toss-up.

[zdawg]

My league info just got updated from Friday night, so my officially sanctioned USBC average is currently 141.

[Mike White]

Whoa whoa whoa....your sanctioned average is 201....and you're wanting to use 190. How is that any different than my sanctioned average being 166 and me wanting to use 148??

What is your source for my sanctioned average being 201?

I was unaware that any league I bowled in uploaded any scores to any site.

Where did you find something?

By my calculations, if you take every game I've shot this season in sanctioned leagues, I'd average at best 192.

If Temecula is anything like where I'm at (same owner) open play doesn't get oiled so the lanes are probably from Friday night league, followed by Rock and Bowl friday night late.

[Aslan]

Fine…lets just do it that way. I'll have to work a little harder, but thats okay.

We'll use the averages submitted;
zDawg: 141
Aslan: 166
MWhite: 192

I'll make another update before the end of the week after I call the alley to make sure there's no problem with getting a couple lanes next to each other at 11AM. Don't forget the camera Mr. White!! Our internet fans want to watch us.

[Aslan]

Okay girls, I need to get this posted before I get another infraction for typing this while wearing a brown shirt on a Wednesday.

I called the center and we're on for 11AM. Apparently they do have birthday parties and the girl who answered the phone didn't know what a "handicap" was…but I'm going to think positively that we'll be fine at 11AM getting 2 lanes next to each other and a knowledgeable person to help getting us set up. Who knows, maybe Mike will have experience with the computer they use.

Agenda:

Arrive: 11:00AM

11:20AM: Get 2 lanes and set them up for practice. I figure one game…that should give us 3 frames each to warm up.

11:35AM: Draw names for bowling order. Get the names/handicaps entered in the computer. Set up camera.

11:45AM: Quick introductions into camera.

11:55AM: Begin bowling.

1:25PM: End bowling. Quick goodbyes/summary into camera.

Thats a very conservative schedule. I think it may move quicker than that, but thats sort of a rough estimate.

The bad news is we (Mike and I) were talking about playing in a poker tournament afterwards but for some stupid reason they don't have a scheduled tournament for March 1st. They have $40 Sit and go for the end of the month but thats kinda stupid since the end of the month tournament is only $175. So I'm probably out for poker. Their cash games don't have reasonable table limits and I ain't wasting $40 for a chance to win $175.

Mike, PM me your cell number. I have zDawg's and I sent him mine. I used to have your's (Mike) in my phone but lost it when I switched phones.

LESS THAN 60 HOURS to literally the GREATEST bowling tournament EVER…with only minor exaggeration! Early results show M. White as the frontrunner and favorite to win the inaugural challenge!!

[Mike White]

Okay girls, I need to get this posted before I get another infraction for typing this while wearing a brown shirt on a Wednesday.

I called the center and we're on for 11AM. Apparently they do have birthday parties and the girl who answered the phone didn't know what a "handicap" was…but I'm going to think positively that we'll be fine at 11AM getting 2 lanes next to each other and a knowledgeable person to help getting us set up. Who knows, maybe Mike will have experience with the computer they use.

Agenda:

Arrive: 11:00AM

11:20AM: Get 2 lanes and set them up for practice. I figure one game…that should give us 3 frames each to warm up.

11:35AM: Draw names for bowling order. Get the names/handicaps entered in the computer. Set up camera.

11:45AM: Quick introductions into camera.

11:55AM: Begin bowling.

1:25PM: End bowling. Quick goodbyes/summary into camera.

Thats a very conservative schedule. I think it may move quicker than that, but thats sort of a rough estimate.

The bad news is we (Mike and I) were talking about playing in a poker tournament afterwards but for some stupid reason they don't have a scheduled tournament for March 1st. They have $40 Sit and go for the end of the month but thats kinda stupid since the end of the month tournament is only $175. So I'm probably out for poker. Their cash games don't have reasonable table limits and I ain't wasting $40 for a chance to win $175.

Mike, PM me your cell number. I have zDawg's and I sent him mine. I used to have your's (Mike) in my phone but lost it when I switched phones.

LESS THAN 60 HOURS to literally the GREATEST bowling tournament EVER…with only minor exaggeration! Early results show M. White as the frontrunner and favorite to win the inaugural challenge!!

May I suggest at this late date, a change of venue.

I learned tonight that Temecula has a total of 3 leagues for the week, and I would expect Saturday Morning the lanes will be fried toast on stale rye.

The owner (same as Arlington) doesn't have the lanes oiled one bit more than absolutely necessary.

[MICHAEL]

someone looking for a reason to back out????? Heavy oil,,, medium oil,,, light,,,, shouldn't a bowler have a ball for EVERY lane condition?? LOL

[Mike White]

someone looking for a reason to back out????? Heavy oil,,, medium oil,,, light,,,, shouldn't a bowler have a ball for EVERY lane condition?? LOL

yeah, but "not been oiled in a few days" really isn't bowling, it's chucking, and Aslan would whoop us with experience in that category.


Don't forget Iceman, back in the late 80's, they only oiled 24 feet, then left the last 36 feet bone dry.

That means 0 hold area. It's like Sport Bowling, but in the opposite direction.

According to Slowinsky's formula, the ball should be 7 inches into the gutter at the end of the oil pattern.

On that condition, I averaged 210, high games of 300, 299, 289, and many 279's. High Series of 791.

If my arm was healthy, I'd use my white dot on fried lanes and probably shoot 700.

On a THS, the outside is pretty much fried all the time, so it can't get much drier.

[Aslan]

May I suggest at this late date, a change of venue.

I learned tonight that Temecula has a total of 3 leagues for the week, and I would expect Saturday Morning the lanes will be fried toast on stale rye.

The owner (same as Arlington) doesn't have the lanes oiled one bit more than absolutely necessary.

I admit, I was a little worried about that given we're starting at 11AM on a Saturday and I HIGHLY DOUBT they'll apply oil Saturday morning. But I'm gonna just leave it as is...because IF we switch venues to Brunswick...or Oceanside...who's to say they will oil THEIR lanes Saturday morning?? Unfortunately, until we carry the celebrity status that we all deserve...I don't see any center agreeing to oil laes especially for out tournament. I think we just have to go in and bowl on whatever we find.

It'll probably be drier than preferred...which has some disadvantages given that it'll be less predictable and the stronger equipment might be less effective. But I think that will affect ALL of us. I plan to treat it as I do any other synthetic and bowl with the Rhythm/low loft and the Frantic as my back-up ball. If they turn out to be fried...guess I gotta either go with higher loft or go with the Frantic as my strike/spare ball. But I don't plan on bringing the Slingshot so I'll need to make one of my 2 balls work.

I'll get there early at 11...and "maybe" I can sweet talk the desk to apply fresh oil on our 2 lanes....but we're talking low liklihood there. If it s****...sorry, that might be a "bad word"....if it's "not good"....then the 2nd Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Southern California Invitational will be at Brusnwick. And if they "aren't good", we'll change the venue to Oceanside (even though neither of us really want to drive to Oceanside honestly). And it'll change based on the players. We chose Temecula because it's halfway between me and ZDawg. If it was me versus Bunny...we'd have chose somewhere in Orange County other than my home center. If it was me vs. you...we'd probably bowl in Norco.

The bottom line is, every center on a Saturday morning is probably going to s*** (be "not good"). It'd be NICE...if centers oiled every morning even on holidays and weekends....but wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which one fills up first.

So...Temecula...be there or be SQUARE. If you need to bring your 11-ball roller to make sure you have the perfect ball for the unpredictable lane conditions...feel free. I won't laugh and will only "slightly" mock you...I promise. Besides, the great "M. White" is NEVER afraid of lane conditions! He rolled a 300 with a plastic ball for crying out loud!!!

[Mike White]

I admit, I was a little worried about that given we're starting at 11AM on a Saturday and I HIGHLY DOUBT they'll apply oil Saturday morning. But I'm gonna just leave it as is...because IF we switch venues to Brunswick...or Oceanside...who's to say they will oil THEIR lanes Saturday morning?? Unfortunately, until we carry the celebrity status that we all deserve...I don't see any center agreeing to oil laes especially for out tournament. I think we just have to go in and bowl on whatever we find.

It'll probably be drier than preferred...which has some disadvantages given that it'll be less predictable and the stronger equipment might be less effective. But I think that will affect ALL of us. I plan to treat it as I do any other synthetic and bowl with the Rhythm/low loft and the Frantic as my back-up ball. If they turn out to be fried...guess I gotta either go with higher loft or go with the Frantic as my strike/spare ball. But I don't plan on bringing the Slingshot so I'll need to make one of my 2 balls work.

I'll get there early at 11...and "maybe" I can sweet talk the desk to apply fresh oil on our 2 lanes....but we're talking low liklihood there. If it s****...sorry, that might be a "bad word"....if it's "not good"....then the 2nd Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Southern California Invitational will be at Brusnwick. And if they "aren't good", we'll change the venue to Oceanside (even though neither of us really want to drive to Oceanside honestly). And it'll change based on the players. We chose Temecula because it's halfway between me and ZDawg. If it was me versus Bunny...we'd have chose somewhere in Orange County other than my home center. If it was me vs. you...we'd probably bowl in Norco.

The bottom line is, every center on a Saturday morning is probably going to s*** (be "not good"). It'd be NICE...if centers oiled every morning even on holidays and weekends....but wish in one hand and **** in the other and see which one fills up first.

So...Temecula...be there or be SQUARE. If you need to bring your 11-ball roller to make sure you have the perfect ball for the unpredictable lane conditions...feel free. I won't laugh and will only "slightly" mock you...I promise. Besides, the great "M. White" is NEVER afraid of lane conditions! He rolled a 300 with a plastic ball for crying out loud!!!

In theory all places could be bad on Saturday, however Temecula could be a whole different level of bad.
With only 3 leagues the whole week, they might be on Sunday night, Monday night, and Tuesday night as a worst case scenario.
That means we could be bowling on Tuesday leftovers, on a Saturday.

It might be a case where they expect us to bowl in the dark.

Arlington does that on Friday afternoon.

[Aslan]

In theory all places could be bad on Saturday, however Temecula could be a whole different level of bad.
With only 3 leagues the whole week, they might be on Sunday night, Monday night, and Tuesday night as a worst case scenario.
That means we could be bowling on Tuesday leftovers, on a Saturday.

It might be a case where they expect us to bowl in the dark.

Arlington does that on Friday afternoon.

Well, if the lights are out, we'll go to Brunswick. Of matter of fact, I'm gonna call today and ask them about lights and ask the oil question. I HIGHLY doubt the person at the front desk will know...since she struggled with the "handicap" terminology. But I'm trying to be more optimistic in 2014.

[MICHAEL]

Sure they want perfect conditions, but it doesn't always happen! They are prepared for what ever may arise!!

I suggest the two of you prepare for battle, what ever the conditions might be, may the best warrior win!!

I have had hundreds of private messages saying in a sense: "Whats all this lane condition crying all about?"

We will all know the day of, I am sure you will post it! We don't CARE!

Let us see who conquers not only the other bowler, but the lane conditions!

It's too late to back out,,, ESPN, (it is rumored) will have a secret camera filming the whole thing undercover!!

I believe I heard, (form a secret source), that he will have a HD camera hidden in his baseball cap, on top of his head!

[Aslan]

Well I'm not sure what Iceman is smoking...BUT!!

A) I DID call the lanes...lights will be ON tomorrow at 11:00AM!! Good news for us bowlers, bad news for you viewers!!

B) The lady at the front desk said the mechanic and desk person get in early and the mechanic almost always oils the lane before they open on Saturdays!

So...no excuses...no backing out...the Game is ON!!!

[zdawg]

Well I'm not sure what Iceman is smoking...BUT!!

A) I DID call the lanes...lights will be ON tomorrow at 11:00AM!! Good news for us bowlers, bad news for you viewers!!

B) The lady at the front desk said the mechanic and desk person get in early and the mechanic almost always oils the lane before they open on Saturdays!

So...no excuses...no backing out...the Game is ON!!!

Sounds good to me....:cool:

[Mike White]

Sure they want perfect conditions, but it doesn't always happen! They are prepared for what ever may arise!!

I suggest the two of you prepare for battle, what ever the conditions might be, may the best warrior win!!

I have had hundreds of private messages saying in a sense: "Whats all this lane condition crying all about?"

We will all know the day of, I am sure you will post it! We don't CARE!

Let us see who conquers not only the other bowler, but the lane conditions!

It's too late to back out,,, ESPN, (it is rumored) will have a secret camera filming the whole thing undercover!!

I believe I heard, (form a secret source), that he will have a HD camera hidden in his baseball cap, on top of his head!

may the best warrior win sounds fine, but how many armies have to spot their competitors some handicap?

Take two extreme examples…

If the lanes are so hard, that everyone scores a 0. I lose.
If the lanes are so easy, that everyone scores a 300, again I lose.

We aren't just bowling against our competitors, we're bowling against our recent performances (the source of our average) which took place on reasonable lane conditions.

[tccstudent]

I got faith on you Mike I just wired my life saving to the sports book and told them to put it all on you.

[MICHAEL]

I got faith on you Mike I just wired my life saving to the sports book and told them to put it all on you.

Good luck Tccstudent!! With the handicap, hummmm and MIKE coming up with excuses,,,,, I get the feeling he is shacking in his bowling shoes!! LOL (:)

I don't hear the other guys making up excuses?? They are ready to bowl!

I put 10,000 on Aslan, yesterday,,,, after reading MIkes post above, I called back and put 40,000 grand!!

Chump changes for Iceaman,,,,, but with the odds they are giving on Mike winning, I had to go for the BIG POT!!!

At The Moment the odds are 3 to 1 Mike White. $120,000 would be, a trip to Europe with my wife and me!!

[Mike White]

Good luck Tccstudent!! With the handicap, hummmm and MIKE coming up with excuses,,,,, I get the feeling he is shacking in his bowling shoes!! LOL (:)

I don't hear the other guys making up excuses?? They are ready to bowl!

I put 10,000 on Aslan, yesterday,,,, after reading MIkes post above, I called back and put 40,000 grand!!

Chump changes for Iceaman,,,,, but with the odds they are giving on Mike winning, I had to go for the BIG POT!!!

At The Moment the odds are 3 to 1 Mike White. $120,000 would be, a trip to Europe with my wife and me!!

Not excuses, just pointing out the holes on your warrior logic.

[circlecity]

I agree with Mike this match isn't about who is the best bowler since handicap is involved. Real men bowl scratch!

[tccstudent]

I agree with Mike this match isn't about who is the best bowler since handicap is involved. Real men bowl scratch!

So does that mean I am only a real man on Fridays since of my three league this is the only one scratch.

[circlecity]

So does that mean I am only a real man on Fridays since of my three league this is the only one scratch. I'm talking about this here event tccstudent. If they are willing to drive to meet up why not bowl scratch and forget all this handicap stuff.

[Mike White]

So does that mean I am only a real man on Fridays since of my three league this is the only one scratch.

Yeah you're only a real man on Fridays. The other days you're out playing with the ladies :)

We can't even seem to get a scratch league where I bowl. Guess it's full of ladies.

[bowl1820]

What they could do is have divisions, scratch & Handicap plus a POA (pins over average) division.

At least two of them could be winners of a division and possibly all three.

[vdubtx]

What they could do is have divisions, scratch & Handicap plus a POA (pins over average) division.

At least two of them could be winners of a division and possibly all three.

So you are basically proposing a "participatory" trophy for all then. LOL.

I know I would like to see a clear winner. :cool:

[Aslan]

I agree with Mike this match isn't about who is the best bowler since handicap is involved. Real men bowl scratch!

Yeah, that makes sense!! NOT!!!

So me and zDawg have been bowling since mid-late 2013. I initially wanted to bowl scratch against him, but felt sorry for him and offered him 10 pins per game. BUT THEN...the whole tournament changed because a bowler of 30+ YEARS....who OWNS A PRO SHOP...decided to enter the challenge!!

Now I think thats GREAT!! And I PLAN to beat Mr. White SCRATCH. But lets be FAIR here...nobody would EVER bet on football if "points" weren't given. And handicap in bowling is the same thing. Nobody would join a league if you didn't have handicap. We have 1 team with 4 of 5 players that average over 200...and another team that has 3 of 4 that average over 200. Without handicap, those teams would consistently destroy every team in the league...even if they all bowl terribly (relative to their game). If Mike is allowed to face me and ZDawg SCRATCH...he could literally bowl with a house ball and win. He could bowl his WORST series in 10 years and still win. Thats absurd.

But...GAME ON! Tomorrow...11AM...ish! Like I said, I plan to do Iceman proud...and defeat M. White scratch. I'm sure Rob M. will be a bigger Aslan fan if I can pull that off. But I also need to "pull back" a little on my awesomeness. ZDawg is a newer bowler...I don't want to completely destroy his confidence nor interest in the sport...so I'll try to keep things relatively close. Also, I'm under the radar right now...both the ABT, ABTA, TNBA, USBC, and PBA radars. So I gotta keep my "incognito" status going so Belmonte and Rash don't see me coming!

[MICHAEL]

SHOW NO MERCY!! NONE, Go ALL OUT!!

read the nursery rhyme the turtle and the Rabbit!! Some wisdom there that might make you rethink your ( GOING EASY)!!!

Please watch this to the END Aslan, I fear you are way to confident!!! Ice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DrKmpuKhKE

Aslan YOU are the Rabbit!! Mike/Zag just might be the turtle!! You know you are the BEST, don't be overly confident!!
Remember Mike is using Tri-Grips on all his balls,,,, what does that tell you!!!! He want to win bad!!

[Aslan]

WOW!

I've never heard the story of the tortoise and the hare before!! Truly uplifting!! I have some comparisons to ***n and various other horrible things, btu I know I'll get infractions should I mention them.

Don't worry dear Iceman. I have respect for both my adversaries…but I am destined for greatness…and they are not…so this victory has already been won! Don't fret dear boy, if Mike remembers his camera, you'll be able to witness the greatness that IS Aslan in real time. Then you'll see.

[zdawg]

Actually I AM destined for greatness....however I don't think I'll be able to take both of you PBA hall of famers in the making tomorrow, so I pre-emptively accept defeat however I will show up and bowl as well as I can...(hopefully better than I did tonight)

[Mike White]

I'm getting too old for this waking up early on a Saturday morning crap.

Bowled last night. Horrible 181-191-189-561, we won 2 of 3, and I needed to double in the 10th to win the other, got the 1st one, but I couldn't carry a damn 4 pin.

Ok I've got 2 hours to eat, get ready, and hit the road.

But first I have to find my bottle of Aleeve… I'm a hurt'n.

[Mike White]

Yeah, that makes sense!! NOT!!!

So me and zDawg have been bowling since mid-late 2013. I initially wanted to bowl scratch against him, but felt sorry for him and offered him 10 pins per game. BUT THEN...the whole tournament changed because a bowler of 30+ YEARS....who OWNS A PRO SHOP...decided to enter the challenge!!

Now I think thats GREAT!! And I PLAN to beat Mr. White SCRATCH. But lets be FAIR here...nobody would EVER bet on football if "points" weren't given. And handicap in bowling is the same thing. Nobody would join a league if you didn't have handicap. We have 1 team with 4 of 5 players that average over 200...and another team that has 3 of 4 that average over 200. Without handicap, those teams would consistently destroy every team in the league...even if they all bowl terribly (relative to their game). If Mike is allowed to face me and ZDawg SCRATCH...he could literally bowl with a house ball and win. He could bowl his WORST series in 10 years and still win. Thats absurd.

But...GAME ON! Tomorrow...11AM...ish! Like I said, I plan to do Iceman proud...and defeat M. White scratch. I'm sure Rob M. will be a bigger Aslan fan if I can pull that off. But I also need to "pull back" a little on my awesomeness. ZDawg is a newer bowler...I don't want to completely destroy his confidence nor interest in the sport...so I'll try to keep things relatively close. Also, I'm under the radar right now...both the ABT, ABTA, TNBA, USBC, and PBA radars. So I gotta keep my "incognito" status going so Belmonte and Rash don't see me coming!

Aslan, it's about context.

Iceman used the warrior analogy, any condition, at any time.

In a scratch situation that is fine, but if you want handicap, the conditions should be reasonable.

It's like me giving you 30 pins of handicap, then we bowl blindfolded.

Both our scores would be bad.

I doubt we would even score as high as 30 while blindfolded.

[MICHAEL]

I don't expect to see the U Tube movie yet, but Scores, and WHO WON, WE need to know now!!

The Suspense is KILLING US!!! WAS IT THAT BAD,,,, so bad your don't want to even post the scores????? LOL

Aslan, do you have the Crown of Victory on your head, with the Gold leaves ,,,, or Is it Mike?? Could the Z guy, have been the sleeper, that upset the both of you???

Could the reason we have not hear anything be that Z, the new to bowing guy, beat you two PRO's!!!!! :rolleyes:

[tccstudent]

I need to know the suspense is killing me did I just lose my entire life savings or did I triple it.

[Mike White]

I don't expect to see the U Tube movie yet, but Scores, and WHO WON, WE need to know now!!

The Suspense is KILLING US!!! WAS IT THAT BAD,,,, so bad your don't want to even post the scores????? LOL

Aslan, do you have the Crown of Victory on your head, with the Gold leaves ,,,, or Is it Mike?? Could the Z guy, have been the sleeper, that upset the both of you???

Could the reason we have not hear anything be that Z, the new to bowing guy, beat you two PRO's!!!!! :rolleyes:

The video is in post-production as we speak.

They ran the oil machine at 11 am just as we got there so it wasn't the Sahara Desert.

The rest of the story has to wait until the video is complete.

I'll make a short trailer first to wet your appetite a bit more.

[MICHAEL]

period!!


will check in around 10:00!

[Aslan]

I doubt we would even score as high as 30 while blindfolded.

Then next time we bowl blindfolded because I KNOW I crack 70!

[zdawg]

Then next time we bowl blindfolded because I KNOW I crack 70!

How about thumbless blindfolded?

[Aslan]

How about thumbless blindfolded?
Done. I mean…a 70?

[MICHAEL]

Done. I mean…a 70?

NOT into games! LOL NO movie,,,,,,NO SCORES,,,, I am out of here!! Believe I will watch A GOOD MOVIE and hit the sack!

Scores in: Aslan 153
Z guy 135
mike white 190

how far off was ICEMAN.... ( I know you are a better bowler then the 190 I posted, but hey strange lanes ect) The
pressure of maybe 4 or 5 people actually watching the 3 of you bowl.... well,,, I've been there and ,,,done that!!

I am sure it will be worth the wait! ZZZ.......ZZZZZZ....zzzzzz.

[Aslan]

Patience Iceman…patience.

Mikey White is going to have a video worthy of this week's Oscars. Trust me, it'll be well, well worth the wait. If you want to go watch that riveting "Tortoise and Hare" movie…go right ahead…but just as a "teaser"…

- Iceman will get some mention in today's bowling footage…as will Rob M.
- There will be some "Pete Weber- like" celebrations.
- You're going to see more gutter balls than the usual tournament coverage.

I'm tellin ya…PATIENCE!!

[Mike White]

I went in to the shop just to plug 2 balls for customers so they would be ready by Sunday, and I ended up there until 12:30am selling this, that, and whatever to the Saturday Night crowd.

[MICHAEL]

Patience Iceman…patience.

Mikey White is going to have a video worthy of this week's Oscars. Trust me, it'll be well, well worth the wait. If you want to go watch that riveting "Tortoise and Hare" movie…go right ahead…but just as a "teaser"…

- Iceman will get some mention in today's bowling footage…as will Rob M.
- There will be some "Pete Weber- like" celebrations.
- You're going to see more gutter balls than the usual tournament coverage.

I'm tellin ya…PATIENCE!!

Just as long as this doesn't turn into a Tortoise wait!!! No, I don't have a Hare up my ask,,,, I just want

RESULTS!!

[Mike White]

Aslan bowling 1st - 129, MWhite bowling 2nd - 127, ZDawg bowling 3rd - 105.

1132

Aslan bowling 1st - 151, MWhite bowling 2nd - 173, ZDawg bowling 3rd - 107.

1133

Aslan bowling 1st - 174, MWhite bowling 2nd - 193, ZDawg bowling 3rd - 160.

1134

[Mike White]

The conditions were rather brutal. Very little hook outside of 15, and a bunch of hook inside of 15.

In practice, 3 frames on each lane, I was moving outside trying to see how wide the oil pattern was, never found the dry out there.

After 6 frames I concluded we were on a polish block. So I moved from trying to play near 5, to straight up 20.

My only achievement of note was picking up the 7-9 split.

[MICHAEL]

The conditions were rather brutal. Very little hook outside of 15, and a bunch of hook inside of 15.

In practice, 3 frames on each lane, I was moving outside trying to see how wide the oil pattern was, never found the dry out there.

After 6 frames I concluded we were on a polish block. So I moved from trying to play near 5, to straight up 20.

My only achievement of note was picking up the 7-9 split.


NICE FRICKEN JOB MIKE!! All Glory and honor is YOURS!!! If Iceman were there, in person, I would PLACE the Golden Crown of Victory upon your head!

Aslan,,, you did win one for the Gipper!! I am sure the Gipper would liked to have had a HIGHER score in his behalf!

Zguy,,,, Bowlingversaty, is what turned ICEMAN into the finely tuned Bowling Machine he is now, and always will be, AMEN!!
Zguy, you got youth on your side, so hang in there!!

Thanks for the memories guys!!! Iceman wishes he could have been there to video, and Q, and A!!!

P.S. The scores reflect one thing to Iceman,,, Girlie Guys in California, can't, and never will match up to the Cowboy, tuff as nails,((((( bowling arms like a drone guided missile, fed on wholesome Beef, and Corn, washed down with Yukon Jack 100 proof whiskey! We take our bowling, Women, Food, and whiskey serious as a heart beat!!
One day I will get together a couple Farm boys, and come to your Girlie City and show you where the Sun really rises.:o:p:rolleyes:

[zdawg]

NICE FRICKEN JOB MIKE!! All Glory and honor is YOURS!!! If Iceman were there, in person, I would PLACE the Golden Crown of Victory upon your head!

Aslan,,, you did win one for the Gipper!! I am sure the Gipper would liked to have had a HIGHER score in his behalf!

Zguy,,,, Bowlingversaty, is what turned ICEMAN into the finely tuned Bowling Machine he is now, and always will be, AMEN!!
Zguy, you got youth on your side, so hang in there!!

Thanks for the memories guys!!! Iceman wishes he could have been there to video, and Q, and A!!!

P.S. The scores reflect one thing to Iceman,,, Girlie Guys in California, can't, and never will match up to the Cowboy, tuff as nails,((((( bowling arms like a drone guided missile, fed on wholesome Beef, and Corn, washed down with Yukon Jack 100 proof whiskey! We take our bowling, Women, Food, and whiskey serious as a heart beat!!
One day I will get together a couple Farm boys, and come to your Girlie City and show you where the Sun really rises.:o:p:rolleyes:

No worries, I actually learned a lot from Mike yesterday, and while that was my worst performance in months I will not blame conditions or equipment, and just chalk it up to a great learning experience - we're already in preliminary talks for a rematch at some future date, so I guarantee I will be back better and perhaps a little wiser :cool:

[Mike White]

NICE FRICKEN JOB MIKE!! All Glory and honor is YOURS!!! If Iceman were there, in person, I would PLACE the Golden Crown of Victory upon your head!

Aslan,,, you did win one for the Gipper!! I am sure the Gipper would liked to have had a HIGHER score in his behalf!

Zguy,,,, Bowlingversaty, is what turned ICEMAN into the finely tuned Bowling Machine he is now, and always will be, AMEN!!
Zguy, you got youth on your side, so hang in there!!

Thanks for the memories guys!!! Iceman wishes he could have been there to video, and Q, and A!!!

P.S. The scores reflect one thing to Iceman,,, Girlie Guys in California, can't, and never will match up to the Cowboy, tuff as nails,((((( bowling arms like a drone guided missile, fed on wholesome Beef, and Corn, washed down with Yukon Jack 100 proof whiskey! We take our bowling, Women, Food, and whiskey serious as a heart beat!!
One day I will get together a couple Farm boys, and come to your Girlie City and show you where the Sun really rises.:o:p:rolleyes:

Before you get too judgmental, I doubt in your short bowling life, you've ever bowled on a reverse block.

You did say you ran into a sport condition once, and it wasn't a fun experience.

Trust me, flat oil is much easier to deal with than flooded outsides, and dry insides.

[MICHAEL]

;)http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/7e0a440b-a450-4ae8-8d05-b533ee25ad85_zpsbe0b422d.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/7e0a440b-a450-4ae8-8d05-b533ee25ad85_zpsbe0b422d.jpg.html)

scratch score

[MICHAEL]

Before you get too judgmental, I doubt in your short bowling life, you've ever bowled on a reverse block.

You did say you ran into a sport condition once, and it wasn't a fun experience.

Trust me, flat oil is much easier to deal with than flooded outsides, and dry insides.

I understand MIKE... LOL.... looking forward to your video!! Hey,,, I had a hell of a time on the Fricken white pattern, but a year ago on the Turnpike, fresh Oil I had a 275,,, with my wife present. Not the first game, but my second attempt. Even had the lane drilling Pro next to me giving a bowling lesion on that pattern... LOL

I swear that white was even tougher for me!! I completely understand mike,,, and yes I do have a very short bowing history.... wish I would have got started in bowling back in my 50s.... LOL!!!

O well, just glad I found the sport......

[Mike White]

I understand MIKE... LOL.... looking forward to your video!! Hey,,, I had a hell of a time on the Fricken white pattern, but a year ago on the Turnpike, fresh Oil I had a 275,,, with my wife present. Not the first game, but my second attempt. Even had the lane drilling Pro next to me giving a bowling lesion on that pattern... LOL

I swear that white was even tougher for me!! I completely understand mike,,, and yes I do have a very short bowing history.... wish I would have got started in bowling back in my 50s.... LOL!!!

O well, just glad I found the sport......

lane drilling Pro?????

[Aslan]

Aslan bowling 1st - 129, MWhite bowling 2nd - 127, ZDawg bowling 3rd - 105.

1132

Aslan bowling 1st - 151, MWhite bowling 2nd - 173, ZDawg bowling 3rd - 107.

1133

Aslan bowling 1st - 174, MWhite bowling 2nd - 193, ZDawg bowling 3rd - 160.

1134

I think Mike may have misinterpreted the results posted. While I'm hoping we can still get the full video up for all to see….the official standings for the 1st Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Southern California Invitational ARE:

1st: ASLAN: 532
2nd: ZDAWG: 522
3rd: MWHITE: 493

While Mr. White WAS able to defeat me scratch, this is a HANDICAP tournament per the agreed upon rules…thus MWHITE finished THIRD in the standings. Not sure how that affects the Burger King crown that Iceman made…but yes folks, Aslan pulled off a narrow victory.


http://youtu.be/_lEedyxkbNo

I DO hope the video will be up shortly. The tournament actually came down to the LAST FRAME as ZDawg put up a strike in the 9th and 10th and had a chance if he closed out with a second strike in the 10th and then got 7 pins or more on that final ball.

Now, Mike was VERY impressive in games 2 and 3; but for him, he was kinda dead in the water after a real rough Game 1. I'm sure Rob would say (and I teased Mike about this on the video) that he "could" have pulled off the victory had he turned that string of 6 spares in Game 2 into strikes…had he "made that ball change". By the way, Mike responded that he DID make a LOT of adjustments…he was just struggling to figure out that challenging oil pattern…and I agree.

[zdawg]

I DO hope the video will be up shortly. The tournament actually came down to the LAST FRAME as ZDawg put up a strike in the 9th and 10th and had a chance if he closed out with a second strike in the 10th and then got 7 pins or more on that final ball.

Yep, definitely made that final frame interesting, I'm gonna have to work on my performance under pressure for the rematch :cool:

[MICHAEL]

lane drilling Pro?????

Its a guy that drills lanes here in Kansas City to make them more of a challenge!! LOL

Ok, Trent, the mgr. of the Pro Shop at NKC AMF bowling alley! OK... LOL

[MICHAEL]

1st: ASLAN: 532
2nd: ZDAWG: 522
3rd: MWHITE: 493

Wow,,, that's correct, it was agreed upon that a fair handicap would be part of the ... tournament!

congrat's Aslan,,,, you are the Champ!!! LONG live the CHAMP!!! I think I predicted that you would win....maybe.. I think.... LOL

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/hot-dog-with-mustard-dog-costume_zps0503a333.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/hot-dog-with-mustard-dog-costume_zps0503a333.jpg.html)

this is my prize to you,,, I sent him this morning, should be at your door step in 3 days!!

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/aecc055a-87a5-4166-9e73-81c1025501cf_zpsd5fabe58.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/aecc055a-87a5-4166-9e73-81c1025501cf_zpsd5fabe58.jpg.html)

[Mike White]

I understand MIKE... LOL.... looking forward to your video!! Hey,,, I had a hell of a time on the Fricken white pattern, but a year ago on the Turnpike, fresh Oil I had a 275,,, with my wife present. Not the first game, but my second attempt. Even had the lane drilling Pro next to me giving a bowling lesion on that pattern... LOL

I swear that white was even tougher for me!! I completely understand mike,,, and yes I do have a very short bowing history.... wish I would have got started in bowling back in my 50s.... LOL!!!

O well, just glad I found the sport......

Looking at the specs for the Turnpike, they apply oil 2 to 2 for the first 12 feet, then buff the oil remaining on the brush down to 41 feet.
On the way back they buff the same from 41' to 32' depending on the capabilities of the machine.

At 32' the begin building the christmas tree pattern from 12 to 12 for 5', then 11 to 11 for another 5', 10 to 10 for 4', 9 to 9 for 4', 8 to 8 for 4', that gets you about 10' from the foul line.
There they go back to 2 to 2 for 4', and buff the first 6 feet of the lane.

Based on the description, Turnpike isn't designed to be difficult other than the ratio of 2.25:1 compared to as much as 10:1 for a THS.

[Mike White]

I think Mike may have misinterpreted the results posted. While I'm hoping we can still get the full video up for all to see….the official standings for the 1st Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Southern California Invitational ARE:

1st: ASLAN: 532
2nd: ZDAWG: 522
3rd: MWHITE: 493

While Mr. White WAS able to defeat me scratch, this is a HANDICAP tournament per the agreed upon rules…thus MWHITE finished THIRD in the standings. Not sure how that affects the Burger King crown that Iceman made…but yes folks, Aslan pulled off a narrow victory.


http://youtu.be/_lEedyxkbNo

I DO hope the video will be up shortly. The tournament actually came down to the LAST FRAME as ZDawg put up a strike in the 9th and 10th and had a chance if he closed out with a second strike in the 10th and then got 7 pins or more on that final ball.

Now, Mike was VERY impressive in games 2 and 3; but for him, he was kinda dead in the water after a real rough Game 1. I'm sure Rob would say (and I teased Mike about this on the video) that he "could" have pulled off the victory had he turned that string of 6 spares in Game 2 into strikes…had he "made that ball change". By the way, Mike responded that he DID make a LOT of adjustments…he was just struggling to figure out that challenging oil pattern…and I agree.

I thought I posted before that, the scores with handicap. I only listed the scratch scores in the post with pictures to define who is who in the images.

Guess I put in too many hours yesterday/this morning.

[bowl1820]

Using the posted score sheets-

Aslan: Series:454 average:151

Total Strikes: 9 of 36 possible
Strike Percentage: 25%

Total Spares: 10 of 22 possible
Spare Percentage: 45.45%

Total Opens: 12 of 30 Frames
Open Percentage: 40%


MWhite: Series:493 average:164

Total Strikes: 10 of 36 possible
Strike Percentage: 27.78%

Total Spares: 14 of 22 possible
Spare Percentage: 63.64%

Total Opens: 8 of 30 Frames
Open Percentage: 26.67%

zdawg: Series:372 average:124

Total Strikes: 5 of 36 possible
Strike Percentage: 13.89%

Total Spares: 9 of 27 possible
Spare Percentage: 33.33%

Total Opens: 17 of 30 Frames
Open Percentage: 56.67%

What if:
Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230

Handicap Standings
1st place went to MWhite: 670
2nd place went to Aslan: 667
3rd place went to Zdawg: 657

Scratch Standings
1st place went to MWhite: Series:493
2nd place went to Aslan: Series:454
3rd place went to zdawg: Series:372

[MICHAEL]

Looking at the specs for the Turnpike, they apply oil 2 to 2 for the first 12 feet, then buff the oil remaining on the brush down to 41 feet.
On the way back they buff the same from 41' to 32' depending on the capabilities of the machine.

At 32' the begin building the christmas tree pattern from 12 to 12 for 5', then 11 to 11 for another 5', 10 to 10 for 4', 9 to 9 for 4', 8 to 8 for 4', that gets you about 10' from the foul line.
There they go back to 2 to 2 for 4', and buff the first 6 feet of the lane.

Based on the description, Turnpike isn't designed to be difficult other than the ratio of 2.25:1 compared to as much as 10:1 for a THS.

Really,,, All I know it the AMF manager said that I should take that home and frame it! He said no one on the Sports league that day beat my score.... (:) Even the assistant manager come up to me, and my wife, and said, get a copy of the that and frame it! All I remember was, they were JACKING WITH ME, (didn't tell me it was the Turnpike) I thought I lost it!!!!!!!! Could not play the 10 board the way I normally do, it just slid on by!!!

They were in the back laughing,,, (ya, VERY FRICKEN FUNNY GUYS,, I thought later) Then the second game, I moved more right, around board 7 or so,,, and aimed at 10,,, but with more angle toward the pocket. I also threw the ball at almost half speed, but kept the revs up. The rest was history....

At that time, they had the Brand NEW Kegal automatic machine that sprays the oil, instead of using wicks,,, they said at the time it was the most accurate oil machine on the market. I can't remember the model number, but I posted about this when it happened almost two years ago.... Mike don't diminish my skill, and luck! 274..... Turnpike!

Could I do this again right now,,, I doubt it very much...lol,,, but the fact is I did do it, just like my last two 300 that were within 6 months of one another... I am ICEMAN!! (:)

[MICHAEL]

Using the posted score sheets-

Aslan: Series:454 average:151

Total Strikes: 9 of 36 possible
Strike Percentage: 25%

Total Spares: 10 of 22 possible
Spare Percentage: 45.45%

Total Opens: 12 of 30 Frames
Open Percentage: 40%


MWhite: Series:493 average:164

Total Strikes: 10 of 36 possible
Strike Percentage: 27.78%

Total Spares: 14 of 22 possible
Spare Percentage: 63.64%

Total Opens: 8 of 30 Frames
Open Percentage: 26.67%

zdawg: Series:372 average:124

Total Strikes: 5 of 36 possible
Strike Percentage: 13.89%

Total Spares: 9 of 27 possible
Spare Percentage: 33.33%

Total Opens: 17 of 30 Frames
Open Percentage: 56.67%

What if:
Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230

Handicap Standings
1st place went to MWhite: 670
2nd place went to Aslan: 667
3rd place went to Zdawg: 657

Scratch Standings
1st place went to MWhite: Series:493
2nd place went to Aslan: Series:454
3rd place went to zdawg: Series:372

GREAT stat's bowl1820!!! thanks..... now we know, (as Paul Harvey would say), The rest of the story!

[Mike White]

What if: Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230

Is 90% of 230 considered standard now, or did you just work the numbers until you got the results I would pay you for? :)

[bowl1820]

Is 90% of 230 considered standard now,
Yeah 90% of 220-230 is pretty standard, maybe Cali. is behind the times. What is it out there still 70-80% of 180-190:)


or did you just work the numbers until you got the results I would pay you for? :)

Don't worry there's no way on earth I would work the numbers out in your or anyone's favor.

[tccstudent]

The state tourney next month will be 90% of 220
I dont think I have seen many at 230 but I did overhear someone talking the other day saying when they started it was like 80% of 190 now its gonna soon be going off of 230 soon.

[Aslan]

Our league is 90% of 210.

I have the SD card with the video on it. I don't have time to edit and post it tonight. I was at a house warming party tonight and got work tomorrow.

I'm not sure if I go over it in the league recap or not (interesting video of all 3 of us giving a post game wrap-up in a donut shop), but I really think I had the advantage because I threw the weaker equipment and I threw a rather ordinary, standard, straight ball. In other words, my ball and approach/swing/release was less affected by lane conditions:

- I had a slightly higher loft; which caused the ball to be in contact with the lane surface for less time.
- I played straight up the 9-board the entire time.

Usually I move right as the lanes dry up but during this short tournament with only 3 players, I never had to move my target. I moved a few boards left or 5 or so boards right on the approach trying to find just the right angle…but I never needed to change my target. Rob would say I was "stubborn" not to move off that 9-board. But with Mike playing the inside line…it was really just me and zdawg playing in that area…so the oil didn't seem to be moving around much.

Mike's issue (from my point of view) was really just his first game. When you're giving 150 pins to zDawg and 72 pins to me, you can't throw a 127 in the 1st game. Mike's advantage (that I presumed) was his ability to adapt quickly…but he couldn't. Once he dropped that 1st game…it was all he could do to just keep the pressure on me and zDawg…which he DID in Games 2 and 3.

zDawg's issue (from my point of view) was his speed. His ball (I can't remember what he was throwing) didn't "seem" to be that strong…but at his speed (very low…like 11-12mph) he couldn't keep it right of the headpin. I think he needs to experiment with different backswings and approaches to see if he can add a little more speed (2mph or so). OR…maybe learn to play inside…or even add loft. In the bowling video I watched awhile back, they claim that a good bowler should have 3 speeds and 3 parts of the lane to play. If you add to that an "arsenal" of any size…it gives you a lot of ways to "adjust" to varying lane conditions.

We all seemed to "find our groove" by game 3. For Mike it was just too late. But as I said earlier, zDawg had the tournament in his hands going into the 10th frame. I was holding my breath after he struck in the 9th and opened with a strike in the 10th. Another strike and he woulda been within 7 pins or so of winning the event.

Hopefully the video will be entertaining and give everyone a look into the kinda guys (zdawg, myself, and MWhite) you deal with here online. Maybe it'll confirm what you already think of us, maybe it'll surprise ya….but hopefully it's a LEAST entertaining.

[Mike White]

What if:
Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230

Handicap Standings
1st place went to MWhite: 670
2nd place went to Aslan: 667
3rd place went to Zdawg: 657

Scratch Standings
1st place went to MWhite: Series:493
2nd place went to Aslan: Series:454
3rd place went to zdawg: Series:372

I can't get the math to work out the way you did.

I can get a tie between Aslan and myself if the handicap is 50%.

Using your 90% of 230,
Aslan @ 166 would get 57 per game, 171 Total
MWhite @ 192 would get 34 per game, 102 Total
ZDawg @ 142 would get 79 per game, 237 Total

Aslan's 454 + 171 = 625
MWhite's 493 + 102 = 595
ZDawg's 372 + 237 = 609

[bowl1820]

I can't get the math to work out the way you did.

I can get a tie between Aslan and myself if the handicap is 50%.

Using your 90% of 230,
Aslan @ 166 would get 57 per game, 171 Total
MWhite @ 192 would get 34 per game, 102 Total
ZDawg @ 142 would get 79 per game, 237 Total

Aslan's 454 + 171 = 625
MWhite's 493 + 102 = 595
ZDawg's 372 + 237 = 609

That's because your using different averages than I did. I based it on what you averaged in your "Tournament", not league averages.
That prevented someone coming in with a sandbagged average and kept it closer.

What if:
Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230

Tournament Averages:
Aslan: Series:454 averaged:151
MWhite: Series:493 averaged:164
zdawg: Series:372 averaged:124

Using the league average you stated:
Aslan was 44 pins under his league
MWhite was 83 pins under his league
ZDawg was 54 pins under his league

If the tourny winner was based on P.O.A.
Aslan was first, zDawg was second and MWhite was last

[Mike White]

That's because your using different averages than I did. I based it on what you averaged in your "Tournament", not league averages.
That prevented someone coming in with a sandbagged average and kept it closer.

What if:
Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230

Tournament Averages:
Aslan: Series:454 averaged:151
MWhite: Series:493 averaged:164
zdawg: Series:372 averaged:124

Using the league average you stated:
Aslan was 44 pins under his league
MWhite was 83 pins under his league
ZDawg was 54 pins under his league

If the tourny winner was based on P.O.A.
Aslan was first, zDawg was second and MWhite was last

100% handicap is effectively P.O.A. Unless the cap is lower than someone's average.
Cap feels like the wrong term. What is the term for the 230, in 90% of 230 less average?


If you only use the scores in that "tournament" for average, then compute handicap with a % less than 100, and finally use only totals to decide the winner, whoever has the highest scratch score will end up with the highest handicap score as well, effectively nullifying the handicap.

Bottom line, I like Bowl1820's method, therefore I won :)

[Mike White]

The state tourney next month will be 90% of 220
I dont think I have seen many at 230 but I did overhear someone talking the other day saying when they started it was like 80% of 190 now its gonna soon be going off of 230 soon.

Back in the early 80's I bowled in a 5 man Mens handicap league that used 66 2/3% handicap between team averages.

Those were the days that almost nobody averaged 190+ in a tough house. I think water based urethane lane finishes had just arrived, and they didn't know how to put out a oil pattern that didn't become a massive pool, or Sahara desert. Talk about carry down. I think when people say there is no carry down now, they are comparing it to back then.

[bowl1820]

What is the term for the 230, in 90% of 230 less average?

It's called The "scratch base"

And usually it should be greater than the highest team or individual entering average.

[Mudpuppy]

Sounds to me, based on entering averages, Aslan is the California king.

Congrats Mr. Aslan.

But yes overall 90% of 230 is pretty standard.

[Aslan]

Bottom line, I like Bowl1820's method, therefore I won :)

Yeah, Bowl1820's method is essentially fiddling with the numbers to the point where somehow Mike W manages to win.

Unfortunately, the tournament has ALREADY been WON...by the most dominant player ever to grace an alley with his presence....a TRUE champion...ME.

AND LET IT BE KNOWN!!

- I originally wanted to bowl zdawg scratch...but was gracious enough to give him 10 pins per game out of the kindness of my heart....
- When Mike W. entered the fray...I wanted him to use a 201 average, but he resisted...he wanted 190...I finally relented and gave him 192...
- I originally wanted to use my "lifetime average" of 146....Mike said no....I then proposed my "synthetics/non-wood" average of 153....Mike still said no...so finally I just agreed and used my USBC 166....

AND STILL...I WIN!!

etank wouldn't even face me!! At least zdawg showedup!! And after all the "negotiations"....all the wah wah wah...the bottom line is...the "champ" bowled a 127 in Game #1. It's THAT simple folks!! Unless we're talking about a PBA bowler....no matter how many little "bowl1820 handicap re-evaluations" we subject ourselves to....you CAN'T bowl a 127 when you're a 190-200 average bowler and expect to win!! Mike is OBVIOUSLY the better bowler. He showed that in games 2 and 3...especially game 2. But you can't, I don't care who ya are....even the great Iceman or even dare I say the great vDub or Bill F....you can't bowl a 127...over 60 pins below your average...then claim it's all "creative math"!!

The champion is crowned. I am certainly open to any and all rematches...any and all takers. BUT...a fair handicap WILL be given/agreed upon. The "followers" seem to gloss over a rather important point as Bowl1820 spouts %s of 230/220...I've been bowling SINCE AUGUST 2013....Mike White started bowling when I was in diapers!! So what....the first 34 years were just a "warm up"?? I'm just gonna spot him a 34 year head start?? Talk about Iceman's "Tortoise and Hare"!!

It's all good...it was fun...but at the end of the day, my competition was weighed, measured and found wanting. Period.

[MICHAEL]

This is Crazy!!! All the posts, you had you bowl off, and NOW WE DON"T KNOW WHO THE REAL WINNER IS!!!!!!

This could only happen in California!!!

[vdubtx]

Aslan is the clear winner, but only by 13 total pins by my calculations.

By my calculations and based on 90% of 230 for all bowlers.

Aslan entering average of 166 would have 57 pins handicap per game, a total for 3 games of 171
zdawg entering average of 141 would have 80 pins handicap per game, a total for 3 games of 240
Mike White entering average of 192 would have 34 pin handicap per game, a total for 3 games of 102

Aslan shot 129-151-174 = 454 + 171 handicap = 625
zdawg shot 105-107-160 = 372 + 240 handicap = 612
Mike White shot 127-173-193 = 493 + 102 handicap = 595

[vdubtx]

The averages were already agreed upon before they bowled, so any other average being used in calculations are just "What-If's". Results are in and ASLAN is the winner based on typical handicap calculations.

[bowl1820]

so any other average being used in calculations are just "What-If's".

As I had noted :)


"What if:
Using their tournament averages and a handicap of 90% of 230"

I also noted that Aslan was the better bowler of the day, because he bowled the closest to his average.

and Mike was the worst being 83 pins under his average.


Using the league average you stated:
Aslan was 44 pins under his league
MWhite was 83 pins under his league
ZDawg was 54 pins under his league

If the tourny winner was based on P.O.A.
Aslan was first, zDawg was second and MWhite was last

[zdawg]

Aslan is the clear winner, but only by 13 total pins by my calculations.

By my calculations and based on 90% of 230 for all bowlers.



My league actually uses 90% of 220 for our handicaps, nevertheless any way you cut it I needed that second strike in the final frame and I choked :cool:

[Mike White]

This is Crazy!!! All the posts, you had you bowl off, and NOW WE DON"T KNOW WHO THE REAL WINNER IS!!!!!!

This could only happen in California!!!

Um, it could happen in Florida too. Wait it did happen in Florida.

According to the rules as was defined before we started, Aslan won..

But it appears Aslan doesn't seem to get humor.

Maybe it's his only victory and feels he has to defend it to the bitter end.

The only person who has claimed I won is Bowl1820. While I don't agree with his method, I do like his outcome.

[bowl1820]

The only person who has claimed I won is Bowl1820. While I don't agree with his method, I do like his outcome.

I never claimed you won, just that on a "what if" that you could have won.

But I did say of the three of you, that you bowled the worst, because you were 83 pins under the average you used. Even though you had the better strike&spare percentage.

[Aslan]

My league actually uses 90% of 220 for our handicaps, nevertheless any way you cut it I needed that second strike in the final frame and I choked :cool:

Yes Iceman...there IS a winner...and it's me.

zdawg...part of that last frame "what if" that I kinda kick myself over...is, after game 2...and then when you got off to a non-stellar start in game 3...I sorta "took my foot off the gas" because I figured, "Okay...zdawg is a little behind me...Mike would need a miracle"...so I did what I am often guilty of (especially when drinking) and I sorta lost focus. I was still trying...don't get me wrong....but I "for some reason" wasn't as focused. It wasn't till the 9th frame when I looked up at the scoreboard and started doing a little mathematics...and suddenly went..."Oh **** (censored so Bowl1820 doesn't give me more infractions)....zDawg can catch me!" Like I said, I got REAL nervous when you got up in the 10th and then dropped a strike. It was a rare double, but all I could think was..."all that...and he's gonna strike out in the 10th and beat me!!"

I was only less worried about Mike W. because going into Game 3, he was 32 pins back of me and I was getting another 24 pins handicap...so I'd have had to really, really tank for him to pass me. But you were far more of a threat in Game 3 because I was only 20 pins ahead of you...and giving you 26 pins....meant I had to beat you in Game 3 or I could still lose. Game 3 was a nice finish because I think it showcased what all 3 of us are more likely to throw. It took zDawg and me 1-2 games to get "right"...only took Mike 1 game to get "right". But that first game was a joke in all honesty. Mike W. could bowl 3 times a week for the rest of 2014 and never bowl a 127. You could roll out a USBC White pattern or a PBA pattern and I don't think he gits a 127 or lower. That was just a weird, weird game.

The videos will go up tonight. I'm not going to do any editing because after watching them last night...it really wasn't much "dead time". Unfortunately the microphone couldn't pick up as much of the humorous banter as I would have liked, but I think they'll be mildly entertaining nonetheless. But...gotta go practice first!! Bowling first! Videos 2nd!

[Aslan]

But it appears Aslan doesn't seem to get humor.

Maybe it's his only victory and feels he has to defend it to the bitter end.

zdawg, just schedule an appointment with Mr. White to drill your ball tri-grip so we can get the rematch scheduled. I figure, the only way to truly show my DOMINANCE is to win a SECOND time. I figure we can bowl in Norco, or AMF Riverside, or maybe we just let Mr. White bowl in his OWN HOUSE....then there'll be NO DOUBT!!

If we bowl in Norco or AMF Riverside...I'd even be open to using the averages from the tourney so Mike isn't as "penalized". However, in his OWN HOUSE I think we go back to using current league averages.

But until then...it sure does feel GREAT to be KING!!!

[Mike White]

zdawg, just schedule an appointment with Mr. White to drill your ball tri-grip so we can get the rematch scheduled. I figure, the only way to truly show my DOMINANCE is to win a SECOND time. I figure we can bowl in Norco, or AMF Riverside, or maybe we just let Mr. White bowl in his OWN HOUSE....then there'll be NO DOUBT!!

If we bowl in Norco or AMF Riverside...I'd even be open to using the averages from the tourney so Mike isn't as "penalized". However, in his OWN HOUSE I think we go back to using current league averages.

But until then...it sure does feel GREAT to be KING!!!

AMF Riverside is likely to be just as bad as Temecula. I think they also have just a few leagues. Most days they don't open until 5pm, so the pro shop there closed it's doors.

AMF is Bolmor, which means it's a bar, with some bowling alleys attached.

[Mike White]

I never claimed you won, just that on a "what if" that you could have won.

But I did say of the three of you, that you bowled the worst, because you were 83 pins under the average you used. Even though you had the better strike&spare percentage.

I didn't bowl worse, I just didn't cover the spread.

[Aslan]

AMF Riverside is likely to be just as bad as Temecula. I think they also have just a few leagues. Most days they don't open until 5pm, so the pro shop there closed it's doors.

AMF is Bolmor, which means it's a bar, with some bowling alleys attached.

I bowled 4 games there Sunday because Arlington was totally full and I wanted to get a few games in before the party I was going to in Corona. And yeah, other than AMF Carter…it was the slickest conditions I've played on…even more so than Temecula. I don't know what it is with AMF lanes around here and just dumping oil on the lanes. Plus, the have those condensed approaches where there are 5 dots instead of 7 dots so if you try to move 12-1 boards right (to throw at a left side leave cross alley)…you need to practically straddle the ball return.

Just "ideas" at this point. I certainly want to revel in my glory a bit before a rematch…but of course am open to it.

[Aslan]

VIDEO UPDATE!!!

Well…attempt #1 failed miserably. It appears the footage was too long to directly upload to youtube with my limited technical/video abilities. I tried like "heck" but no success. I was able to upload the post tourney discussion after a great deal of time…but I'm going to have to split the tourney footage into 3 videos and try that. Just getting into my editing software took some doing…but I should be able to edit it and see if in 3 pieces they can be uploaded…but it's gonna have to wait till tomorrow since it's midnight now.

Sorry for the delay, just some "technical difficulties" unfortunately.

[Mike White]

I was only less worried about Mike W. because going into Game 3, he was 32 pins back of me and I was getting another 24 pins handicap...so I'd have had to really, really tank for him to pass me. But you were far more of a threat in Game 3 because I was only 20 pins ahead of you...and giving you 26 pins....meant I had to beat you in Game 3 or I could still lose. Game 3 was a nice finish because I think it showcased what all 3 of us are more likely to throw. It took zDawg and me 1-2 games to get "right"...only took Mike 1 game to get "right". But that first game was a joke in all honesty. Mike W. could bowl 3 times a week for the rest of 2014 and never bowl a 127. You could roll out a USBC White pattern or a PBA pattern and I don't think he gits a 127 or lower. That was just a weird, weird game.


You don't seem to realize how close things were.

If I had covered the 3-6, in the 2nd, and 7 pin in the 4th, and carried the 10 pin in the 8th I would have shot 237, which would have been enough to beat you by 5 pins.

The opens the 1st and 2nd game were directly related to the strange oil pattern.

The opens in the 3rd game were unusual bad execution just trying to throw the ball straight.

And the 8th frame I left the only 10 pin for the day.

[Mike White]

I bowled 4 games there Sunday because Arlington was totally full and I wanted to get a few games in before the party I was going to in Corona. And yeah, other than AMF Carter…it was the slickest conditions I've played on…even more so than Temecula. I don't know what it is with AMF lanes around here and just dumping oil on the lanes. Plus, the have those condensed approaches where there are 5 dots instead of 7 dots so if you try to move 12-1 boards right (to throw at a left side leave cross alley)…you need to practically straddle the ball return.

Just "ideas" at this point. I certainly want to revel in my glory a bit before a rematch…but of course am open to it.

Unless something really strange is happening, the 5 dots (from right to left) are boards 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30.

For 7 dots, they are boards 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, and 35

I've seen a few lanes where the approaches are not properly in line with the lane, so what appeared to be the 20 board on the approach lined up with something like the 18 board on the lane.

[MICHAEL]

VIDEO UPDATE!!!

Well…attempt #1 failed miserably. It appears the footage was too long to directly upload to youtube with my limited technical/video abilities. I tried like "heck" but no success. I was able to upload the post tourney discussion after a great deal of time…but I'm going to have to split the tourney footage into 3 videos and try that. Just getting into my editing software took some doing…but I should be able to edit it and see if in 3 pieces they can be uploaded…but it's gonna have to wait till tomorrow since it's midnight now.

Sorry for the delay, just some "technical difficulties" unfortunately.

Keep coming up with excuses.... MANY OF US are beginning to think it was all B.S.,,,, made up by you Aslan!! Hoping to get a contract from some BIG TIME producer there in Holly Wood!! Maybe a virtual reality show like
"The Three Stooges Go to Bowl."

Your Milking this!! Where is the BEEF!!!! Or is Iceman right in his assumption that this was an imaginary plot to make it to the BIG TIME!!


YES,,,, I WILL DO IT WITH ONLY ONE FRICKEN EYE!!

Have you had any calls form Producers, or Directors??

Don't hold your breath Aslan,,,, Where is the Beef!!!

So YOU were the winner Aslan! I guess Iceman will have to be the ONE that gives you a bowling lesson!!
I just might jump on my bike, hook up my bowling trailer, and shot out there and give you a " Bowling Missouri Style Lesson this summer!"

Do you think YOU CAN BEAT THE ICE!!!

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/9828e1d7-4bd6-4381-8ce7-ffb523fb8e62_zpsb541d59d.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/9828e1d7-4bd6-4381-8ce7-ffb523fb8e62_zpsb541d59d.jpg.html)
YES,,,, I WILL DO IT WITH ONE EYE!!! Eye think it won't be pretty,,,,,in fact eye know so!! LOL

[Mudpuppy]

zdawg, just schedule an appointment with Mr. White to drill your ball tri-grip so we can get the rematch scheduled. I figure, the only way to truly show my DOMINANCE is to win a SECOND time. I figure we can bowl in Norco, or AMF Riverside, or maybe we just let Mr. White bowl in his OWN HOUSE....then there'll be NO DOUBT!!

If we bowl in Norco or AMF Riverside...I'd even be open to using the averages from the tourney so Mike isn't as "penalized". However, in his OWN HOUSE I think we go back to using current league averages.

But until then...it sure does feel GREAT to be KING!!!

Narcos? WAIT A SECOND. Sounds like there could be a disqualification here. Has the results of the drug test come back yet? Are there PEDS involved? Is this how the california kid won the match?

[Aslan]

Keep coming up with excuses.... MANY OF US are beginning to think it was all B.S.,,,, made up by you Aslan!! Hoping to get a contract from some BIG TIME producer there in Holly Wood!! Maybe a virtual reality show like
"The Three Stooges Go to Bowl."

Nope. Was up till midnight trying to load the "discussion video" (which is up on youtube; I'm just waiting to link to it until I can get the tournament footage up). And was up half the night trying to figure out what the "glitch" was. Every time I tried to copy the movie file to you tube, my browser shut down. I was all over the internet trying to figure out a "fix" and no luck. Finally I decided to import it into imovie so I could cut it into thirds (thinking the length was the problem) and I had to compress the footage just to get it into iMovie. I'm SO glad Mike didn't shoot it in HD or I don't know WTH we would have done.

So I'll pay some bills tonight then try to work on some minimal editing and see if I can get it on youtube in thirds. No need for any fancy edits, just need to splice it into smaller parts.


YES,,,, I WILL DO IT WITH ONE EYE!!! Eye think it won't be pretty,,,,,in fact eye know so!! LOL
For the record, I want nothing to do with Iceman's " one-eye". But of course I'll be happy to bowl against Mr. Iceman anywhere but that tilted center he calls home...where the average appears to be 279 and a minimum of 6 300-games are bowled each night. If I can beat the PRO, M. White....beating a Missouri legend shouldn't be that difficult...if I'm given a fair handicap.

[Aslan]

Quick Update!!!

2 of 3 videos loaded to Youtube. The 3rd project/game is processing/finalizing overnight and I'll add it tomorrow evening. Then I'll provide links to all 3 game videos and the post game discussion.

[circlecity]

Yep, watching them now.

[zdawg]

Yep, watching them now.

I checked out a few shots, will watch more when all three games are posted.

If nothing else this video really gives me an idea of how fat and out of shape I got over the last year :o, finally all my injuries are healed so I can't wait to compare video 3-4 months from now to see how much better shape I'm in - and hopefully I'm bowling better too :cool:

[Aslan]

ANOTHER UPDATE:

STILL gonna try to have the 3rd video up (Game 3) tonight. I was hoping to have it "finalized" overnight and then upload it to Youtube tonight...but I'm having a bit of a "technical difficulty" getting the project to "finalize" in iMovie. I've tried 3 times and it keeps giving me an error. I think it has to do with the iMovie finalizing it in 1080dp. The other 2 were finalized at a lower resolution and it only took 20-35 minutes to finalize. Buit for some reason iMovie thinks the last 1/3 of the footage is HD footage and I can't find the way to change that. So I probably need to start a new project and essentially start over as to the footage for Game 3.

I have to think it's a "size issue" because I've NEVER had ANY problem uploading videos and video projects to Youtube or finalizing (essentially "closing the project" and saving it) them. BUT...we'll give it another try tonight. I'd hate to NOT have the 3rd game up because that was really the only game where all 3 of us played "well".

[MICHAEL]

Its been so LONG since the supposed tournament that I will have to go back and freshen up on what supposedly came down!! :rolleyes:

Hopefully when I come out to SD, you will have your "shuuuu it " together! No one will want to miss this Midwest lesson in how to bowl!

After you figure out how to post it, (if that even happens), write it down so that when I burn the lanes up with your defeat, you can post it that day! Where is a good place to stay, for a guy and his bike! This is going to happen!!!

I am way over due for a 4000 mile round trip bike trip. Its about 1800 to SD! I have done that on a bike in two days.. I think I just might go Warp 1 on that trip, and make it a 3 day trip!

I hope you have your lesson with Rob before: Shock, and AWE!

[Aslan]

If nothing else this video really gives me an idea of how fat and out of shape I got over the last year :o, finally all my injuries are healed so I can't wait to compare video 3-4 months from now to see how much better shape I'm in - and hopefully I'm bowling better too :cool:

Nothing like an hour and a half of footage to expose all the things you do that aren't "super attractive". After reviewing and working with the footage...I just kept saying to myslelf, "Why are you DOING that you friggin ****?! Sit still!! Stop moving around!! And why are you sweating so much!!" Yeah. Unfortunately we had a very small production and make-up budget so the video isn't "super flattering".

[Aslan]

Ice, the first two games ARE up...circuitcity and zdawg were able to find them using their mad detective skillz. I'm just waiting to post the links until I get the final game up (primarily so I don't get flooded with 100 annoying posts asking where the last 3rd of the tournament is). Most everything I do in life is designed to avoid annoyances.

[tccstudent]

I found it

[MICHAEL]

Wow!


well worth the wait!!! LOL.... I will never again Question YOUR Pure Raw bowing demonstrated in that first video!
You mentioned limited production budget??? What production LOL it was Mike's camera on a maybe tripod! LOL

What kind of a girly bowling alley was that? Talk about distractions huge TV's with movies playing!! That must be a Bowlmor lane,,,, right??

I also notice the little kid on your left had a higher score and more strikes in the first game then you guys!! :rolleyes:

I am speechless,,,, can't wait for the next two!! (:)

In fairness to all 3 of you, it might be those nuclear reactors that went down in Japan! I hear they are leaking radiation, and the ocean currents are depositing it on the beach's in CA, especially SD California!!!

thanks for posting bud!!! Gives ICEMAN a good idea of what I will be up against when we collide this early summer!
Should I bring some guns with me??? Jason, and Gene????

Iceman, Jason, and Gene,,,, against the 3 amigos!!! :o

[Mudpuppy]

This was a much better video than the post tourney discussion or the game 2 of the bowling: http://youtu.be/EaAolGLIo7A

But Aslan I could never tell there was a low production budget or anything - I was waiting for Oliver Stone to show up on the credits and I still wonder who is the employee yelling LANE 13 YOUR ORDER IS READY

[vdubtx]

Most everything I do in life is designed to avoid annoyances.

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp305/K9Thefirst1/Not_sure_if_serious-Joker_zps0903da50.jpg

[Aslan]

Ohhhh!! I get it now!!

They wanted the videos to get posted so they could come in and insult us and make derogatory comments....well, that makes more sense then. I WAS scratching my head wondering why people were so excited to watch us bowl!! I'd have worked much harder at putting them on the internet and sharing the experience if I knew it would result in insults and teasing. I mean, after seeing all of Iceman and Mudpuppy's videos of them bowling and how attractive they are...I guess I should have seen this coming. But, live and learn.

Mike, zdawg...I think Iceman has a point. After that poor excuse for a performance...we really, really should just give up the sport and take up something else. Because really, if ya think about it, our bowling is a danger to anyone that might come across those videos...and try to emulate us. So, let me be the first one to agree with Iceman and hang up my bowling shoes. If ya can't get a 300-game in 691 tries...heck, if you're Iceman....if ya can't get MULTIPLE 300s in 250 tries...might be time to take up a new hobby.

[Aslan]

I still wonder who is the employee yelling LANE 13 YOUR ORDER IS READY

Posting a link to porn. ONE infraction. Actually, they were clothed...so 1/2 of an infraction!

Yeah, the lady yelling, she wouldn't get away with that if PDW was bowling. He'd have thrown something at her..probably one of the small children. I don't know if he'd have the strength to heave a small child 14 feet...maybe back in the day when he was doing more cocaine. Cocaine makes ya really strong. I should have put PDW glasses on and started going OFF on her. But I don't know...thats just not "my game".

[Mudpuppy]

Ohhhh!! I get it now!!

They wanted the videos to get posted so they could come in and insult us and make derogatory comments....well, that makes more sense then. I WAS scratching my head wondering why people were so excited to watch us bowl!! I'd have worked much harder at putting them on the internet and sharing the experience if I knew it would result in insults and teasing. I mean, after seeing all of Iceman and Mudpuppy's videos of them bowling and how attractive they are...I guess I should have seen this coming. But, live and learn.

Mike, zdawg...I think Iceman has a point. After that poor excuse for a performance...we really, really should just give up the sport and take up something else. Because really, if ya think about it, our bowling is a danger to anyone that might come across those videos...and try to emulate us. So, let me be the first one to agree with Iceman and hang up my bowling shoes. If ya can't get a 300-game in 691 tries...heck, if you're Iceman....if ya can't get MULTIPLE 300s in 250 tries...might be time to take up a new hobby.

Truncated cliff notes: Aslan finally gets it.

[Mudpuppy]

On a side note Aslan you hyped all this up, set it up, tried (and failed) to intimidate your competition and you talked long and passionate about wanting to post up videos of your tournament. No one told you to do this or even encouraged you. And now you are afraid of a little criticism or humor?

[vdubtx]

Posting a link to porn. ONE infraction. Actually, they were clothed...so 1/2 of an infraction!

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp305/K9Thefirst1/Not_sure_if_serious-Joker_zps0903da50.jpg

[Aslan]

On a side note Aslan you hyped all this up, set it up, tried (and failed) to intimidate your competition and you talked long and passionate about wanting to post up videos of your tournament. No one told you to do this or even encouraged you. And now you are afraid of a little criticism or humor?

I can't see vDub's (presuming really cool) images because my work computer network is facist. Thats a bummer.

Mud...love the truncated sentence stuff....but you left out the MOST important fact...that I WON said tournament. All they hype and video production aside...the takeaway is, I challenged, some did not step up to accept it...and those that did were defeated. Thats really the ONLY important part of the whole thread! Videos, no videos, Iceman checking out the kids on the lane next to us....NONE of that matters....all that matters is, the score. Am I wrong!? AM I wrong!!!??

[Aslan]

and you talked long and passionate about wanting to post up videos of your tournament. No one told you to do this or even encouraged you.


This will be fun to watch. :)


Can we get a live webcast?


Please post a video on youtube. I will watch it. 5 minutes max. Use skillful editing !


I need to know the suspense is killing me did I just lose my entire life savings or did I triple it.

Does it count as a long post if I'm just reposting other posts?? I don't know what the cliff note rules are. :(

[tr33frog]

I'm watching the first video now. Looks like everyone was struggling a bit. Was there any warm up before the game?

Mike might have some serious hitches in his throw, but I like his arm swing and release a lot. Just looks like he couldn't figure out what to do with those lanes.

Zdawg doesn't have much arm swing at all, which I know he admitted to (and I believe I've bowled that way as well), but the ball appears to get some decent rotation for a nice down and in ball. Just seemed he was having trouble keeping the hook under control. Probably could have used some more speed, but no biggie.

I'm still not comfortable with Aslan's interpretation of DYDS, at least at lineup. Also don't understand why his arm swings off to the right after a throw instead of through the shot. But he has nice balance after the release and is looking a bit better after each video.

I have to imagine that there was a bit of pressure knowing you were going to be recorded for all of us to see, and having bragging rights here. Great job having a gathering of members, it is harder to get people together in the real world than some people imagine.

[Aslan]

I'm still not comfortable with Aslan's interpretation of DYDS, at least at lineup.
Ball to the left side of the body. Head to the right. Ball crosses the body and then goes back.

Now....

1) As weird as it was at first, having the ball go across the body DOES feel more natural biomechanically. I'm just as surprised as the next guy about that.
2) I still am struggling with the dropping of the shoulder at the foul line. Pictures that are posted on Joe's site show guys with their balance arms literally pointed straight up towards the ceiling. When I try to do that, especially at my height, I lose my balance...badly. When practicing it last Friday during leagues, I'd have to bring my bowling hand back down and touch the floor to keep from falling over.


Also don't understand why his arm swings off to the right after a throw instead of through the shot. But he has nice balance after the release and is looking a bit better after each video.
It's not "that" uncommon. WRW, PDW, and Norm Duke all release with their hands going out to the side (sometimes, depends on the video). But the REAL reason I do it...is I'm trying not to "top" the ball. I have a tendency if I try to snap that arm up straight...I end up bringing it over the top of the ball.

I actually didn't notice until I started putting the videos on Youtube....my hand position after release is not "ideal" by any means.

But thanks for the positive comments. Mike's form is definitely the most polished...but he does have a weird hitch in his giddyup when he approaches as well. And my weird leg step/skipping thing is aggravating. I thought it was getting better but it's not. I actually surprise myself that my slide foot can get back to the correct board with all the crazy movements it's doing during the approach. And watching zdawg I noticed the low speed, but also that he takes 5 steps in a much, much shorter distance than I take my 5 steps. I might need to adopt that style to keep from 'running" in my approach.

[MICHAEL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-RC6zgAZPk

We were expecting something,. BIGGER and BETTER then this!!!!!!! LOL Jason did a sweet job on the editing!!

[zdawg]

Zdawg doesn't have much arm swing at all, which I know he admitted to (and I believe I've bowled that way as well), but the ball appears to get some decent rotation for a nice down and in ball. Just seemed he was having trouble keeping the hook under control. Probably could have used some more speed, but no biggie.

I won't go into it too much in this thread since I have one of my own on this very subject, but yeah finally in Game 3 moved WAAAY further inside than I ever have before (after observing Mike) and was able to find the pocket a little bit - no coincidence my scored jumped up over 50 pins that game. But lack of speed is killing my game, but I think I'm starting to get a handle on fixing that.

[tr33frog]

I won't go into it too much in this thread since I have one of my own on this very subject, but yeah finally in Game 3 moved WAAAY further inside than I ever have before (after observing Mike) and was able to find the pocket a little bit - no coincidence my scored jumped up over 50 pins that game. But lack of speed is killing my game, but I think I'm starting to get a handle on fixing that.
I think speed is one of the hardest things to adjust, it is generally my last resort. Luckily I have a pretty wide range as far as position and mark.

[tr33frog]

Ball to the left side of the body. Head to the right. Ball crosses the body and then goes back.

Now....

1) As weird as it was at first, having the ball go across the body DOES feel more natural biomechanically. I'm just as surprised as the next guy about that.
2) I still am struggling with the dropping of the shoulder at the foul line. Pictures that are posted on Joe's site show guys with their balance arms literally pointed straight up towards the ceiling. When I try to do that, especially at my height, I lose my balance...badly. When practicing it last Friday during leagues, I'd have to bring my bowling hand back down and touch the floor to keep from falling over.


It's not "that" uncommon. WRW, PDW, and Norm Duke all release with their hands going out to the side (sometimes, depends on the video). But the REAL reason I do it...is I'm trying not to "top" the ball. I have a tendency if I try to snap that arm up straight...I end up bringing it over the top of the ball.

I actually didn't notice until I started putting the videos on Youtube....my hand position after release is not "ideal" by any means.

But thanks for the positive comments. Mike's form is definitely the most polished...but he does have a weird hitch in his giddyup when he approaches as well. And my weird leg step/skipping thing is aggravating. I thought it was getting better but it's not. I actually surprise myself that my slide foot can get back to the correct board with all the crazy movements it's doing during the approach. And watching zdawg I noticed the low speed, but also that he takes 5 steps in a much, much shorter distance than I take my 5 steps. I might need to adopt that style to keep from 'running" in my approach.
I think the body is supposed to be turned more to the right so you are not going as far around your body. But I haven't studied it a ton.

You did look more behind the ball, just thought the am going that way was interesting.

Congrats on the win.

[Mike White]

I'm watching the first video now. Looks like everyone was struggling a bit. Was there any warm up before the game?

Mike might have some serious hitches in his throw, but I like his arm swing and release a lot. Just looks like he couldn't figure out what to do with those lanes.

Zdawg doesn't have much arm swing at all, which I know he admitted to (and I believe I've bowled that way as well), but the ball appears to get some decent rotation for a nice down and in ball. Just seemed he was having trouble keeping the hook under control. Probably could have used some more speed, but no biggie.

I'm still not comfortable with Aslan's interpretation of DYDS, at least at lineup. Also don't understand why his arm swings off to the right after a throw instead of through the shot. But he has nice balance after the release and is looking a bit better after each video.

I have to imagine that there was a bit of pressure knowing you were going to be recorded for all of us to see, and having bragging rights here. Great job having a gathering of members, it is harder to get people together in the real world than some people imagine.

I started playing out where there was too much oil both left and right of my shot.

When I moved a little in near ZDawg, there was too much oil on the right, and too little on the left.

I pulled a couple of shots so it wasn't clear to me right away that the center was that dry.

After the 6th fame, I moved way in so I would have dry area both left and right.

All I wanted to do was hit the headpin, which I did, but on the wrong side… That resulted in the 7-9 split, so I had to try for the pocket side.

It seemed that 15 board and out was the out of bounds.

I made the 1st 3-9, but the second time, the ball was still skidding to the right as it passed the pins.

On a normal THS condition, you have to work damn hard to get a modern ball to even stay right of the 3 pin.

[Aslan]

Okay Folks!! Sorry for the delay!!

All 3 game videos are not posted!! The 3rd one took some doing because for some reason my editing software wanted to treat it as HD 1080p which made it so it was taking so much disk space, that the software crashed. It appears I've used nearly all of my free disk space…so I guess I gotta transfer some files to flash drives and external hard drives one of these days. Finally I just re-did it and the 2nd time around it finalized it at the 720p level.

Game 1:http://youtu.be/KtN2oY-cqUc

Game 2:http://youtu.be/84k7libyuKc

Game 3: http://youtu.be/IgEmDv7iA0M

Post Tournament Discussion/Recap:http://youtu.be/O9QETh2vumk

Enjoy!

[Blacksox1]

Congrats to Aslan. Liked the videos ! Mudpuppy's video was good and to the point ! The video with Iceman was good with the interview style along with a few bowling shots at the close ! Well done bowlers !

[Aslan]

P.S. If you noticed me sweating a LOT….we had VERY "special" weather that day for southern California. It was actually pouring rain and very humid. Since moving to California, I've sort of adapted to the usual 74-80 degree days with virtually no humidity. So when it actually rains and the air is humid…not used to that anymore.

P.S.S…you'll note in video 3 that there was some score correcting going on and some banter back and forth. The reason for that was:

1) Those machines kinda *poo*…none of us could figure out how to work them…AND they lock out score change so you can't adjust scores.

2) In game one, my ball came out of the gutter and clipped the 10-pin. But since I was coming off an open frame…and spared…we just left it at 1 / rather than waiting (what would have probably been 20 minutes) for them to reset the pin deck.

3) Mike threw a ball that bounced out and hit a single 7-pin…so he was teasing me that if he couldn't count his, I shouldn't have counted mine…which sort of threw me off…but he was just kidding.

[Mike White]

P.S. If you noticed me sweating a LOT….we had VERY "special" weather that day for southern California. It was actually pouring rain and very humid. Since moving to California, I've sort of adapted to the usual 74-80 degree days with virtually no humidity. So when it actually rains and the air is humid…not used to that anymore.

P.S.S…you'll note in video 3 that there was some score correcting going on and some banter back and forth. The reason for that was:

1) Those machines kinda *poo*…none of us could figure out how to work them…AND they lock out score change so you can't adjust scores.

2) In game one, my ball came out of the gutter and clipped the 10-pin. But since I was coming off an open frame…and spared…we just left it at 1 / rather than waiting (what would have probably been 20 minutes) for them to reset the pin deck.

3) Mike threw a ball that bounced out and hit a single 7-pin…so he was teasing me that if he couldn't count his, I shouldn't have counted mine…which sort of threw me off…but he was just kidding.

I didn't notice it at the time, but after watching the video it seems you kinda failed the test of character.

When you bounced the pin out of the gutter, you should have re-racked the pins so you were shooting at all 10 pins.
Yeah that might have required a trip to the desk to fix the scoring, but it would have been the fair thing to do, and it wouldn't take 20 minutes.
Instead you commented something about getting it fixed could take 2 hours, and shot at the 9 pins.
I said the fact that it gave you 1 pin on the first ball didn't matter in the scoring,
But that wasn't a free pass not to repack the pins.
Not re-racking could effect the score because you might have left the 10 pin on the 2nd shot.

When I bounced the ball out, you seemed quite willing to risk waiting 2 hours.
It's a minor thing, and you probably weren't even aware you acted differently, but it does speak towards character.

[Mike White]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-RC6zgAZPk

We were expecting something,. BIGGER and BETTER then this!!!!!!! LOL Jason did a sweet job on the editing!!

Other than the "Beast" y'all look like the product of easy condition bowling.

Back when the ABC still controlled the rules, nobody with such an unbalanced approach would average 190+ not to mention shoot 300/800's.

[bowl1820]

I'm still not comfortable with Aslan's interpretation of DYDS, at least at lineup.
Aslan will disagree.

But you should be uncomfortable, he's not doing it right.
http://s5.postimg.org/usd34iix3/lfthip_1.jpg

The ball should be in front of the ball side shoulder. Here's from the DYDS article:
Setup – In the setup position, after setting your feet on the approach, set the ball in front of the shoulder.

If you do the DYDS drill you can see this.

DYDS drill
1. Setup on the approach where you would begin the full approach.

2. With the hand in the ball, bend down to the ball side and place the ball on the ground.

3. Move the ball next to the ball-side foot.

4. While keeping the ball on the floor, rotate your forearm to face the pins (index finger forward).

5. Hold this position for three seconds.

6. Now, lift the ball into the setup position (which will allow the bowler to maintain a natural lateral spine tilt). Simply lift the ball to the height, relative to the body, where the bowler normally sets up.

7. Execute a normal shot without thinking about your body position.

http://s5.postimg.org/scb9qo0uf/BTM_10_October_2012_46.jpg


Also don't understand why his arm swings off to the right after a throw instead of through the shot.

It's because the ball is starting so far to the left.

With the ball so far left it will swing from left to right during the back swing and during the forward swing the ball will naturally want to swing back to the left.

So to get the ball on to the target line, he has to push the ball back to the right.

If the ball was started in front of the ball side shoulder, it would swing straight back and forward along the target line. Which would allow you to throw through the shot improving accuracy and power.

[Aslan]

I didn't notice it at the time, but after watching the video it seems you kinda failed the test of character.

When I bounced the ball out, you seemed quite willing to risk waiting 2 hours.
It's a minor thing, and you probably weren't even aware you acted differently, but it does speak towards character.

I'm gonna have to disagree a bit there. I mean, I wanted to have them put the 10-pin back before the 2nd shot, but I think it would have taken quite a long time because it's not just a simple score correction. Could I have re-racked? I don't know. As you recall, we were locked out of even changing scores so I doubt we had the ability to re-rack without messing things up. AND, nobody asked me to re-rack...it didn't even occur to me. I figured if I picked up the rest of them it's a 1 /. If I don't, I could have changed the score or had the desk change it and just add that pin back in

YOUR situation was COMPLETELY different because:
A) It WOULD have affected your score a great deal.
B) It was a simple score correction.
C) It was done on the 2nd ball, not the 1st...so no complicated scenarios....simple change.

I'm a bit of a perfectionist so I didn't like that the full rack wasn't there on my 2nd ball...but that alley was PACKED with people and parties and the desk staff wasn't that knowledgeable (they didn't know what "handicap" was). I would have been more than happy to go to the desk and wait for them to get to it...but since there were no objections at the time, and the first ball didn't affect the score, and the second ball was a very solid hit...I guess I didn't see it as worth the trouble.


Aslan will disagree.

But you should be uncomfortable, he's not doing it right.

I submitted a video to Joe Slowinski who invented the approach...doing it exactly how you saw on the video (except less lateral spine tilt at the line)...and his response was that it looked good but I needed more lateral tilt at the line.

I know Bowl1820 never misses a chance to hate on Aslan and his lack of bowling skillz/knowledge....but I think on this specific topic I'll listen to the person who invented it.

Like I said, I was reluctant to start the ball that far to the left...and I don't know all the ins and outs and specifics. But from what I've read, the ball naturally goes from the lower left, around your body, and up. And like I said, after doing it for 3-4 weeks now, it actually does feel more natural to do it that way. It's gonna get a lot of criticism from "establishment bowlers" because it goes a bit against conventions such as the ball staying on one plane or the head being straight up and down.

Again, I'm not saying I'm doing it right/perfectly. I'm not. Joe claims it takes about 4 months of practicing it before you start "getting it". And maybe when I submitted the video to him he didn't see the ball was starting so far left and thats why he didn't comment. I doubt it, but it's possible. I'll trim a clip from the tournament....one where it's obvious the ball is starting on the left side and I'll submit it to him. And I'll ask him the question specifically and report back on what he says.

[vdubtx]

Whats to say though that you would have knocked the 10 over with a full rack though? Hmmm you winning is suspect now as you possibly earned more pins than you maybe should have. I guess we will never know who the real victor is.

[Aslan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-RC6zgAZPk

We were expecting something,. BIGGER and BETTER then this!!!!!!! LOL Jason did a sweet job on the editing!!

While I'm not as abrasive as Mike in my critique; my comments are:

1) Nice editing. I'm a very beginner level editor so I can appreciate the effort.
2) I feel bad for that Pat guy because I think he might be the only one on the team that is not on or in need of psychtropic medication.
3) Jamau looks NOTHING like what I thought.
4) Seeing Pat knock all the pins down with his suitcase release makes me not feel quite so bad about my "release challenges" in regards to staying behind the ball.
5) While I am impressed that such a young guy is already a successful pro shop owner; he needs to step aside during video making because he literally blocks the entire other lane when he's standing near the socring panel.
6) Looks like a team that has a lot of fun and a lot of "zest" for bowling so I'd just like to go on record as endorsing that motley bunch.
7) While I can't say for sure, and thats why ya play the game, I will "tentatively" agree with MWhite that it does seem odd with those releases (except Jamau who looks to be bowling thumbless?) that it's strike after strike after strike. I'd love to see the team "travel" to an alley other than that one and make a video to see if the success follows them.

Remember, in our recent tournament/invitational...Mike and zdawg were bowling at a center they've never bowled at. And I had only bowled maybe 6 or 7 games there in 2013. I have NO DOUBT that had we held the tourney in San Diego (zdawg's turf) or Arlington/Riverside (where MWhite has his pro shop) or on my home/wood lanes...scores and outcomes could have drastically shifted.

[bowl1820]

I know Bowl1820 never misses a chance to hate on Aslan and his lack of bowling skillz/knowledge....but I think on this specific topic I'll listen to the person who invented it.
.

Theres no hate involved and if joe told you as a righthanded bowler to hold the ball on the opposite side of your body.

Then by all means do so, also next time you talk to him tell him he needs update his articles because thats what I was going by.

[tr33frog]

Aslan -

Okay, I'm just going to say what I see/read and see if it makes sense.

1) I've read where he tells someone to have the ball over the left knee, problem I see is that your goes out too far to the left.
2) The reason he can get away with it barely over his left knee (not on the far side) is because his right shoulder is not just tilted down, but is also tilted back, so he is not standing parallel to the lane at address. Your shoulders are parallel with the lanes when you start.

If you watch his recent post on the DYDS FB post of him throwing it " Coach Slowinski with NO BOWLING SHOES Demonstrating the Movements to the point of release" you can see that you have the ball much further to the left than he does.

I'm not attacking, so please don't take it as that. I'm just trying to point out why I see and how it makes sense to me. The reason I commented on the hand going out to the right after release is that you obviously had to be doing it to compensate for something else. Now I'm not pretending to throw a perfect ball by any means, but with your average as low as it is, and you trying to systematically work your way through things, I'm going to point out things like that before they become habit and harder to fix.

[Aslan]

Whats to say though that you would have knocked the 10 over with a full rack though? Hmmm you winning is suspect now as you possibly earned more pins than you maybe should have. I guess we will never know who the real victor is.

Actually vDub, it wouldn't have chaged the outcome. If I score it as a 0/9...I lose 8 pins in game 1. I won by 10 pins. And if you watch the video closely (frame 5, game 1), you'll see a LOT of pin action where the 10 would have been...literally < 2.5% chance that 10-pin would have survived.

MWhite is just "being Mike". He's not just gonna gracefully admit defeat...he's going to blame his 3rd place finish on lane conditions and improper scoring and any other thing he can think of. And knowing that BBoards tends to be an "anti-Aslan crowd", he knows he can get traction.

As the champ, I don't concern myself with these types of "background noise". I have a couple bowling balls and a bowling bag...and have made it quite clear that I tend to accept most, if not all, fair challenges. So if Mike feels that he only bowled a 127 in Game 1 because there was a mini earthquake during that game...and it only affected him because he had water in his ear from showering...or any other number of things he and Bowl 1820 can come up with...I'm not that far away. I've already told zdawg AND MWhite that a rematch is accepted. I just thought they should practice a little before the next challenge. :p

[Aslan]

but with your average as low as it is,

What! Wow. I didn't realize 146-166 was so horrible!! :D

I see what you're saying tr33frog...and I appreciate the critique. If it's too far left, I'm sure when I submit it to Joe he'll point that out. I can only go by his feedback. I DO start with the ball left (pretty much over my left knee), low (waist level-ish). I do try to keep my head to the right/outside. And I've modified my approach to a 5-step with the ball not immediately being pushed out. ALl of these are things Joe said to start with.

As to the "release"...thats a work in progress. If you see my older videos, you'll see that my release/follow-through used to be very straight and vertical (handshake with the ceiling). As I've gotten more critiques and worked with other pros, I've tried to have a release that is more "modern" where I'm more bent over at the foul line and sort of "reaching out toward the target". Somehow (and I didn't notice it until reviewing the tournament footage) my release is now going "to the side" versus "up the side". Maybe Bowl1820 is correct...and it's a "correction" as a result of the DYDS technique. Or it might be me trying to stay behind the ball more and not "suitcase deliver" it.

But it's something I'll definitely work on tomorrow during leagues and probably at practice on Monday. I think by not going up (going sideways with my hand)', I'm losing some revs...and I don't many revs to spare!

So thanks to Bowl and tr33 for their comments.

[Mike White]

Actually vDub, it wouldn't have chaged the outcome. If I score it as a 0/9...I lose 8 pins in game 1. I won by 10 pins. And if you watch the video closely (frame 5, game 1), you'll see a LOT of pin action where the 10 would have been...literally < 2.5% chance that 10-pin would have survived.

In the first game, on your first ball of the frame, you hit the 1-3 area 3 times, twice resulting in a 10 pin, and the third time you made a strike.

Literally < 2.5% chance? I think not.

[bowl1820]

Just thought id throw this in heres someone doing the dyds drill as a comparison.

http://youtu.be/H0rI6mPUeoM

[vdubtx]

In the first game, on your first ball of the frame, you hit the 1-3 area 3 times, twice resulting in a 10 pin, and the third time you made a strike.

Literally < 2.5% chance? I think not.

You do know 89.5% of statistics are made up right. :p:cool:

[Mike White]

Actually vDub, it wouldn't have chaged the outcome. If I score it as a 0/9...I lose 8 pins in game 1. I won by 10 pins. And if you watch the video closely (frame 5, game 1), you'll see a LOT of pin action where the 10 would have been...literally < 2.5% chance that 10-pin would have survived.

MWhite is just "being Mike". He's not just gonna gracefully admit defeat...he's going to blame his 3rd place finish on lane conditions and improper scoring and any other thing he can think of. And knowing that BBoards tends to be an "anti-Aslan crowd", he knows he can get traction.

As the champ, I don't concern myself with these types of "background noise". I have a couple bowling balls and a bowling bag...and have made it quite clear that I tend to accept most, if not all, fair challenges. So if Mike feels that he only bowled a 127 in Game 1 because there was a mini earthquake during that game...and it only affected him because he had water in his ear from showering...or any other number of things he and Bowl 1820 can come up with...I'm not that far away. I've already told zdawg AND MWhite that a rematch is accepted. I just thought they should practice a little before the next challenge. :p

I feel the 127 was directly related to the backwards oil pattern.

If we are going to use handicap, to be fair, the oil pattern should be at least close to what was used when determining the handicap.

I addressed this issue before we went to Temecula. While the conditions were 180 degrees from what was thought to be the worst case, they probably were an even worse than the worst case for me.

[bowl1820]

Okay Aslan I went over and asked Joe about it. I included this image
http://s5.postimg.org/usd34iix3/lfthip_1.jpg

We are basically both right and wrong. The ball is not as far left as you had it, but not directly in line with the right shoulder either.



I am the originator of the DYDS concept (biomechanical efficiency and energy transfer). In this, I teach have the ball inside the elbow on the belly button to help the bowler to move the ball laterally inward to abduct the swing

The ball should between the 2 positions
_________________
Joe Slowinski
USBC Gold Level Coach

So keep the ball more toward the belly button and you should be golden.

[tr33frog]

Okay Aslan I went over and asked Joe about it. I included this image
http://s5.postimg.org/usd34iix3/lfthip_1.jpg

We are basically both right and wrong. The ball is not as far left as you had it, but not directly in line with the right shoulder either.



So keep the ball more toward the belly button and you should be golden.

In other words, what you are saying is, "listen to tr33frog" :D

[Aslan]

Just thought id throw this in heres someone doing the dyds drill as a comparison.

http://youtu.be/H0rI6mPUeoM

He's doing the DRILL...not the....nevermind. He's doing it wrong.


In the first game, on your first ball of the frame, you hit the 1-3 area 3 times, twice resulting in a 10 pin, and the third time you made a strike.

Literally < 2.5% chance? I think not.

Does it matter? Would you like me to deduct 8 pins from my score so that I only won by 2 points instead of 10? Okay...I deduct 8 pins...and am now officially the champion that I was before deducting the 8 pins. Problem solved. I am champ...Mike still finished 3rd...BUT....by deducting those 8 pins...I never beat him in any game scratch. Win win.


I feel the 127 was directly related to the backwards oil pattern.

If we are going to use handicap, to be fair, the oil pattern should be at least close to what was used when determining the handicap.

I addressed this issue before we went to Temecula. While the conditions were 180 degrees from what was thought to be the worst case, they probably were an even worse than the worst case for me.

Why does everyone that loses at bowling blame the oil pattern/lanes?? I swear...it's not just Mikey here...on league night....as soon as a guy shanks a shot..."Man, these lanes are messed up." No they're not....as evident by the fact that other people bowling on them are doing just fine. People act like bowling lanes = carnival funhouse and you throw the ball and all kinds of crazy stuff happens...then a windmill blade comes down and stops it from hitting the headpin (a la miniature golf). It's a 60ft lane....it's slippery...the ball rolls down and if you hit just right (or sometimes just left) of the headpin and most or all of them fall down. It's THAT simple. It's literally one of the simplest sports ever invented.

You LOST! I give you credit for accepting the challenge...e-tank and others shyed away from it...so credit where credit is due...but it's in the books. It's done. It's a piece of PBA history. In the past...bye bye...not comin back....until rematch time.


Okay Aslan I went over and asked Joe about it. I included this image
We are basically both right and wrong. The ball is not as far left as you had it, but not directly in line with the right shoulder either.


Did you tell him to update his **** webpage? Don't tell him that....he's kinda a "grouch". I like his technique...but his "people skills" are a bit rough around the edges. Maybe in person he'd be cool...kinda like PDW...but the interactions I've had with him via the web and watching his videos...he comes off as someone that has a HUGE opinion of himself and a general disdain for the rest of us. I could be wrong though...never met him personally.


In other words, what you are saying is, "listen to tr33frog" :D
No. In other words, Bowl was admitting that he was wrong. Granted, I was also "slightly wrong" since I guess the ball was further left than designed...but in all honesty, he never told me how far left to have it. I just knew it needed to go cross-body so I start with it on the left.

But, neither here nor there. It was good of Bowl1820 to go check with Joe. Saves me the trouble of splicing the video and sending it in. I might anyways though. Maybe he has some other things for me to work on. I'm just in a "weird spot" with DYDS because of the balance issue at the foul line. I'd like to get that resolved before I send in another video. or at least get a video of me falling over so I can illustrate the difficulty I'm having.

[bowl1820]

No. In other words, Bowl was admitting that he was wrong. Granted, I was also "slightly wrong" since I guess the ball was further left than designed...but in all honesty, he never told me how far left to have it. I just knew it needed to go cross-body so I start with it on the left.

So you say your only "slightly wrong" and I'm "Wrong", Hmmmm.

Going by Joe's answer "The ball should between the 2 positions" I'd say we are both "equally" wrong in regard to how to do the DYDS.

As for the drill video, Yes he's doing the drill. I never said different.

As for him doing it wrong, he followed the steps for the drill. If you say he did it wrong fine with me, you don't have to do it.



DYDS drill
1. Setup on the approach where you would begin the full approach.

2. With the hand in the ball, bend down to the ball side and place the ball on the ground.

3. Move the ball next to the ball-side foot.

4. While keeping the ball on the floor, rotate your forearm to face the pins (index finger forward).

5. Hold this position for three seconds.

6. Now, lift the ball into the setup position (which will allow the bowler to maintain a natural lateral spine tilt). Simply lift the ball to the height, relative to the body, where the bowler normally sets up.

7. Execute a normal shot without thinking about your body position.

[Aslan]

What does all that yappity yap have to do with my dominant tournament performance and the praise I should be getting as a result??

PRAISE ME people!! A winner has emerged!! Now all hail me!

Ball left, ball center, ball at belly button....all I know is the ball hit the pins and went boom like dynamite!! I could start the approach wearing the ball as a hat or pulling it out of....my infraction....it wouldn't make a difference because at the end of the day I AM the most dominant bowler ON THE PLANET... or at least at that center on that day.

[bowl1820]

PRAISE ME people!! A winner has emerged!! Now all hail me!.


http://s30.postimg.org/hjrpn0sm9/trophy.jpg

[Mike White]

]Does it matter? Would you like me to deduct 8 pins from my score so that I only won by 2 points instead of 10? Okay...I deduct 8 pins...and am now officially the champion that I was before deducting the 8 pins. Problem solved. I am champ...Mike still finished 3rd...BUT....by deducting those 8 pins...I never beat him in any game scratch. Win win.

You're still focusing on the scoring aspect. My comments were related to the character aspect.


Why does everyone that loses at bowling blame the oil pattern/lanes?? I swear...it's not just Mikey here...on league night....as soon as a guy shanks a shot..."Man, these lanes are messed up." No they're not....as evident by the fact that other people bowling on them are doing just fine. People act like bowling lanes = carnival funhouse and you throw the ball and all kinds of crazy stuff happens...then a windmill blade comes down and stops it from hitting the headpin (a la miniature golf). It's a 60ft lane....it's slippery...the ball rolls down and if you hit just right (or sometimes just left) of the headpin and most or all of them fall down. It's THAT simple. It's literally one of the simplest sports ever invented.

I understand while you're in the infant stage of your bowling development, you can't recognize the effect different oil patterns have on a properly thrown ball.
Just remember, you didn't bowl better, you won simply because you received enough handicap.

If you really think the game is "that simple" you're destined to be a below average bowler for life.



You LOST! I give you credit for accepting the challenge...e-tank and others shyed away from it...so credit where credit is due...but it's in the books. It's done. It's a piece of PBA history. In the past...bye bye...not comin back....until rematch time.

Ok, next time we compete for money.
$100 per game sound reasonable?
We'll see how well your nervous system can withstand the pressure.
Oh and when you lose, you can really say bye bye.

Maybe by then you'll have a real documented USBC average, rather than some mishmash of league, unsanctioned, and open bowling.

[Mike White]

Aslan -

Okay, I'm just going to say what I see/read and see if it makes sense.

1) I've read where he tells someone to have the ball over the left knee, problem I see is that your goes out too far to the left.
2) The reason he can get away with it barely over his left knee (not on the far side) is because his right shoulder is not just tilted down, but is also tilted back, so he is not standing parallel to the lane at address. Your shoulders are parallel with the lanes when you start.

If you watch his recent post on the DYDS FB post of him throwing it " Coach Slowinski with NO BOWLING SHOES Demonstrating the Movements to the point of release" you can see that you have the ball much further to the left than he does.

I'm not attacking, so please don't take it as that. I'm just trying to point out why I see and how it makes sense to me. The reason I commented on the hand going out to the right after release is that you obviously had to be doing it to compensate for something else. Now I'm not pretending to throw a perfect ball by any means, but with your average as low as it is, and you trying to systematically work your way through things, I'm going to point out things like that before they become habit and harder to fix.

Looking at his "No Bowling Shoes" video, he has the back swing on one plane, and the forward swing on a different plane. That's not something that is going to be repeatable.

Is Slowinski charging anything for video analysis? His comment about it taking 4 months to become natural sound like he wants your money now, and you'll be disappointed later.

[Hampe]

I understand while you're in the infant stage of your bowling development, you can't recognize the effect different oil patterns have on a properly thrown ball.
Just remember, you didn't bowl better, you won simply because you received enough handicap.

If you really think the game is "that simple" you're destined to be a below average bowler for life.I was thinking the same thing reading that paragraph.....

Aslan has a lot of terribly uninformed opinions, but that paragraph was particularly facepalm worthy.

That doesn't mean that every time someone has a bad game, the lanes are at fault. A lot of people blame the lanes when they just had a bad day. But there are cases where lanes can be nearly unplayable with a hook, or when the condition of the lane just matches up terribly with your game.

[Mudpuppy]

Cliff notes on this entire thread (sorry they have to be a little longer due to massive content):

The first annual BHMZAMMSCC happened on March 1, 2014. It was a beautiful day (at least inside on the lanes). The cream rose to the top and the inaugural champion, amidst much controversy and without submitting a clean drug test, emerged - a true champion amongst champions - Aslan. Please preorder your Golden Aslan Pagan Worship Statue now - blasphemy never felt so good. We curse the gods of old for making the year so long to have to impatiently wait for the 2015 rematch. Maybe a summer and fall rematch of a different name are in order. June 1, 2014 the Plastic Spare Ball Southern California Invitational and a September 6, 2014 DYDS You're Doing it Wrong Southern California Open?

[MICHAEL]

Cliff notes on this entire thread (sorry they have to be a little longer due to massive content):

The first annual BHMZAMMSCC happened on March 1, 2014. It was a beautiful day (at least inside on the lanes). The cream rose to the top and the inaugural champion, amidst much controversy and without submitting a clean drug test, emerged - a true champion amongst champions - Aslan. Please preorder your Golden Aslan Pagan Worship Statue now - blasphemy never felt so good. We curse the gods of old for making the year so long to have to impatiently wait for the 2015 rematch. Maybe a summer and fall rematch of a different name are in order. June 1, 2014 the Plastic Spare Ball Southern California Invitational and a September 6, 2014 DYDS You're Doing it Wrong Southern California Open?

ASLAN is the ONE TRUE WINNER A TRUEhttp://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/hot-dog-with-mustard-dog-costume_zps0503a333.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/hot-dog-with-mustard-dog-costume_zps0503a333.jpg.html)

3 games to adjust for lane conditions,,,, and Aslan did what needed to be done, and won!! Now, tasteless, but beautiful women everywhere want to be seen with him! All Glory is yours!! PRAISE BE YOUR NAME!!! Statues, are at this very moment being erected on Mt Olympia in Grease!!!
(yes correct spelling lol) People will be paying just to SEE, and touch you statue!!! YOU ARE A BOWLING GOD!

[MICHAEL]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/948cc9ef-10c8-4e1d-8b6a-4988194eec04_zpsda4c811f.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/948cc9ef-10c8-4e1d-8b6a-4988194eec04_zpsda4c811f.jpg.html)

Job well done!! You said your would kick butt,,, and YOU DID!! Bravo!!!!!! Bravo!!!!!! "You Truly are SOMETHING"??

[noeymc]

wow this was surprising

[tr33frog]

Looking at his "No Bowling Shoes" video, he has the back swing on one plane, and the forward swing on a different plane. That's not something that is going to be repeatable.

Is Slowinski charging anything for video analysis? His comment about it taking 4 months to become natural sound like he wants your money now, and you'll be disappointed later.

It appears on FB anyway that he gives away free advice. Though I think he has some books, shirts, classes that you can pay for as well. I'm relatively comfortable with my current approach with some tweaks, but am interested in different techniques.

[Aslan]

You're still focusing on the scoring aspect. My comments were related to the character aspect.

Is it more of a character issue that a person immediately jumps in to fix an obvious score error? Or that someone is unable to lose gracefully??


I was thinking the same thing reading that paragraph.....

Aslan has a lot of terribly uninformed opinions, but that paragraph was particularly facepalm worthy.

Particularly what?


But there are cases where lanes can be nearly unplayable with a hook, or when the condition of the lane just matches up terribly with your game.

I know I'm the most horrible bowler on any planet in any solar system...and thus should bow down to the greatness that is the rest of you internet geniuses (geni???)...but here's a thought....use a different ball. I didn't have a problem with the lane conditions. MY ball wasn't hooking that much. Heck, I'd have let the competition borrow it if they had asked. I mean, how is it that me, a lowly, horrible, poor excuse for a bowler...can alter his release or his loft or even change balls...to get around problematic lane conditions....yet the greatness that is MWhite (or the international greatness that is Hampe)...bowling on those conditions would be a lost cause and provide a legitimate reason why they LOST????

You can facepalm whatever you wanna facepalm. Winners win. Losers lose. Lesser winners brag. Bigger losers make excuses.

You wanna talk character...watch the video more closely. How many times did I compliment Mike on his game? How many times did I mention being impressed about his spare shooting ability? How many times BEFORE the tournament did I mention that Mike had a higher skill level and would likely adapt better than myself or zdawg?? Yeah...go to the tape and see who was the one congratulating the loser versus making excuses why the winner won. Listen to Mike's explanantion that I only won because my "weird game" matched up more closely with the "weird lane conditions".

In other words, if Hampe or Mike White lose....it was some crazy lane condition. And if you doubt that, you're a bad bowler that will never get better because you "don't understand" that they couldn't actually lose....unless something was wrong. Pathetic.

[RobLV1]

Okay, this has got to be a joke. You guys appeared to be friends on the video, and now you're right back to your bashing. Enough already!

[MICHAEL]

Okay, this has got to be a joke. You guys appeared to be friends on the video, and now you're right back to your bashing. Enough already!

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif.html)

speak for your self Rob!!! MIKE are you going to put up with Aslan, bragging about defeating you!!?? I think all the awards have gone to his head! HE,,,,HE<,, is even too good for any of the chicks Iceman has tried to fix him up with!! A Victory can SURE CHANGE a man!!!

[zdawg]

Okay, this has got to be a joke. You guys appeared to be friends on the video, and now you're right back to your bashing. Enough already!

Everything was friendly at the time, I think this is just a case of internet not properly conveying emotions.

THAT SAID, the ZMAN, that's right ME ME ME, bowled his best sanctioned score tonight with a 224 in league. While I've bowled better, the video shows I've bowled WAY WAY worse. And I got another phone number tonight, my captain asked me if I was there to bowl or hook up, I said "can't it be both"?

SO, GENTLEMAN when shall we schedule the REMATCH???? :cool::cool::cool::cool:

[tr33frog]

Everything was friendly at the time, I think this is just a case of internet not properly conveying emotions.

THAT SAID, the ZMAN, that's right ME ME ME, bowled his best sanctioned score tonight with a 224 in league. While I've bowled better, the video shows I've bowled WAY WAY worse. And I got another phone number tonight, my captain asked me if I was there to bowl or hook up, I said "can't it be both"?

SO, GENTLEMAN when shall we schedule the REMATCH???? :cool::cool::cool::cool:

There are too many people from the KC area for you to call yourself the zman. FYI, the zman is a very popular briket sandwich with two onion rings, provolone cheese on a kaiser bun... An actual piece of heaven on Earth.

Congrats on the game!!!

[Aslan]

Okay, this has got to be a joke. You guys appeared to be friends on the video, and now you're right back to your bashing. Enough already!

It's hard to convey emotion on the internet. Mike and I go at each other a lot but it's usually all in good fun. To be honest, I don't know if he's being serious about the character thing or not…if he's not then ha ha ha…good joke. But if he is, then come on…it's one thing to be a sore loser…but insulting a person's character is going a bit far.

It WAS very friendly and was cool to meet zdawg and bowl with MWhite. I think it's gotten a bit "hostile" because of how this thread has gone. Instead of comments about the tournament, there were a lot of attacks on me and sort of "egging Mike on"..which only makes me more intense to defend the validity of my victory…etc…etc…etc…

But having met Mike and spent hours and hours with him bowling, drilling balls, etc… I find it hard to believe that he'd get so ticked about losing. He's a fairly laid back dude in person. I know he and you have had your disagreements…but I chalk that up to 2 guys that have a lot of knowledge and opinion…and neither wants to necessarily admit they may be wrong. But yeah, I would be surprised if Mike was actually upset. I've never seen him upset.


SO, GENTLEMAN when shall we schedule the REMATCH???? :cool::cool::cool::cool:

Well zdawg, as I stated after MY VICTORY…I am open to a rematch. However;

1) I think we should wait until you've figured out which ball you want to have tri-grip drilled, so we can kill two birds with one stone. I don't think it's the miracle cure that Iceman testifies to (on a twice daily basis)…but I think there's a good chance you might like it.

2) I'd like to wait until at the EARLIEST April…but ideally until September. I want to make sure I am able to fully enjoy my victory/championship before immediately putting it up for grabs.

3) Mike would have to agree not to be a sore loser next time. I mean, are we going HAVE to bowl in HIS center?? If we bowl ANYWHERE else (Diamond Bar, Norco, AMF Riverside) will he AGAIN get defeated and claim the alley was tilted or impacted by an earthquake or had a crazy jackalope oil pattern or (insert any excuse imaginable)???? Because I don't know if I can take another round of "sore losing". : (

4) It's gonna take at LEAST 1 month to agree on what averages to use next time for handicap. I'm open to using our averages from the tournament AS LONG AS we're not bowling at Mike's home center. IF WE DO bowl at his center (which would be most convenient given he's there and you're probably getting your ball drilled there)…then I propose we use our league averages but Mike has to use his highest league average in that center. So if he is in a league with a 200 average and a league with a 187 average…he has to use 200…because he has a HUGE advantage on those lanes where he bowls 2-3 times a week and has for what…15 years??? I'd also be willing to bowl at MY center…but wood lanes are going away in April…so I'm not gonna have much of an advantage unless we schedule it in October or something after I have a chance to get used to them.

5) Is this tourney ever gonna "take off"? Are we ever going to attract folks like e-tank or Bunny or that adolescent kid that yelled at me?? Or is it going to be us same 3 clowns???

6) We'll need a new tourney name. We can't use the "2nd Annual….blah blah blah…tournament" because it hasn't been a year since the last one. So we'll have to come up with a NEW tournament…like:

- "The 1st Annual Charity Tournament to Benefit Insane People from Missouri"
or
- "The 1st Annual Bowl1820 Creative Math Tournament of Champions" (where no matter the score, Bowl1820 finds a way to crown MikeW the winner)
or
- "The Rob Mautner/Aslan vs. zDawg/MWhite Celebrity Doubles Tournament" where I (after getting my awesome lesson in 2 weeks) will join Rob (kinda like the Sith) and give MWhite the chance to face BOTH of the "demons"…with zDawg's new improved moderate speed "AlabamaSlamaShot". Granted, Rob would have to drive from Vegas OR we'd have to GO to Vegas…and if we're all in the same car…no matter how entertaining that video WOULD be…I WILL leave Mike in Barstow if he starts talking about 2-handed bowling or how he didn't really lose the tournament in March.

Lots of questions to answer before the next "rematch".

Mudpuppy's Cliff Notes: Mike hates Aslan. zDawg wants rematch. The internet is the root of all evil.

[Mike White]

Is it more of a character issue that a person immediately jumps in to fix an obvious score error? Or that someone is unable to lose gracefully??



Particularly what?



I know I'm the most horrible bowler on any planet in any solar system...and thus should bow down to the greatness that is the rest of you internet geniuses (geni???)...but here's a thought....use a different ball. I didn't have a problem with the lane conditions. MY ball wasn't hooking that much. Heck, I'd have let the competition borrow it if they had asked. I mean, how is it that me, a lowly, horrible, poor excuse for a bowler...can alter his release or his loft or even change balls...to get around problematic lane conditions....yet the greatness that is MWhite (or the international greatness that is Hampe)...bowling on those conditions would be a lost cause and provide a legitimate reason why they LOST????

You can facepalm whatever you wanna facepalm. Winners win. Losers lose. Lesser winners brag. Bigger losers make excuses.

You wanna talk character...watch the video more closely. How many times did I compliment Mike on his game? How many times did I mention being impressed about his spare shooting ability? How many times BEFORE the tournament did I mention that Mike had a higher skill level and would likely adapt better than myself or zdawg?? Yeah...go to the tape and see who was the one congratulating the loser versus making excuses why the winner won. Listen to Mike's explanantion that I only won because my "weird game" matched up more closely with the "weird lane conditions".

In other words, if Hampe or Mike White lose....it was some crazy lane condition. And if you doubt that, you're a bad bowler that will never get better because you "don't understand" that they couldn't actually lose....unless something was wrong. Pathetic.

You don't even recognize what you were bowling on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXLQVKzqX1E

The scores are going to be lower, but the handicap doesn't change.

You're lucky the lanes weren't like I had tonight.

They were a little slick so you would have been at home with your 130's synthetic average.

184, one open (took the 2-4, off of the 2-4-5), had a little trouble getting the ball into a roll.

244, clean, made the adjustment, and carried well until the end.

216, clean, lost one lane, but made my spares.

Had these been the conditions we found in Temecula, you would have needed to shoot 566.

Not impossible, but well above your expectations.



A comment from your "hero" about reverse block conditions.
http://www.walterray.com/answers2/lanecon.shtml


Anthony January 29, 2002
Grafton
OH

Could you tell me what a reverse block lane condition is and how a right handed bowler should play it?
Thank You

Hi Anthony,
A true reverse block is oil on the outsides of the lane and less oil in the middle of the lane. In reality this doesn't happen (except on very rare occasions) on fresh oil. However since lanes get most of their play in the center of the lane, the friction of the surface of the lane will typically be a bit higher in the center of the lane than the outsides. A reverse block will happen after many games if the lanes are oiled in a fairly even pattern. Normally the lanes will play the best on an extreme inside line for a right hander. But the shot won't develop inside for quite awhile so patience is sometimes necessary.

[noeymc]

after seeing the video i am pretty sure i could take u guys =D

[zdawg]

There are too many people from the KC area for you to call yourself the zman. FYI, the zman is a very popular briket sandwich with two onion rings, provolone cheese on a kaiser bun... An actual piece of heaven on Earth.

Congrats on the game!!!

Interesting, never been to KC so I've never heard of that, but thanks!

[zdawg]

Well zdawg, as I stated after MY VICTORY…I am open to a rematch. However;

1) I think we should wait until you've figured out which ball you want to have tri-grip drilled, so we can kill two birds with one stone. I don't think it's the miracle cure that Iceman testifies to (on a twice daily basis)…but I think there's a good chance you might like it.

2) I'd like to wait until at the EARLIEST April…but ideally until September. I want to make sure I am able to fully enjoy my victory/championship before immediately putting it up for grabs.

Yeah, I don't mind waiting for another tourney, I think I'll probably be venturing up sooner rather than later for the tri-grip drilling so maybe if you're around when I decide when I'm going up there we can meet up and throw a few games.

[noeymc]

i think bowlingball should pay for us to get together and have a bowl off on sport shot and see whos really the best on the site =D

[MICHAEL]

i think bowlingball should pay for us to get together and have a bowl off on sport shot and see whos really the best on the site =D


Under 60, The Dude, Jason! Without a doubt!! Over 60,,,, ICEMAN,,,, any of you who think different,,, buy me a ticket, and fly me out to your local lane, I will PROVE it! If I lose, I pay for the trip!

If we are talking a tournament here,,, why,,, WHY leave out the two top bowlers in their age groups,,, Jason, and Ice???

Jason and me want a piece of this pie!!!!!!!! Don't make it easy on yourselves..... !!!

[noeymc]

Under 60, The Dude, Jason! Without a doubt!! Over 60,,,, ICEMAN,,,, any of you who think different,,, buy me a ticket, and fly me out to your local lane, I will PROVE it! If I lose, I pay for the trip!

If we are talking a tournament here,,, why,,, WHY leave out the two top bowlers in their age groups,,, Jason, and Ice???

Jason and me want a piece of this pie!!!!!!!! Don't make it easy on yourselves..... !!!

They wont tell us what oil pattern they use and no age groups single game roll off to keep moving up all you gotta beat who ever is on the same pair lego winner gets to be on staff with them =D

[Aslan]

A comment from your "hero" about reverse block conditions.


Mike, I only have 2 comments about this…actually 3:

1) Thank you for quoting WRW…ANY thread is better when WRW is part of it.
2) You don't KNOW it was a reverse block. It seems like that would be a very, very rare thing to walk into a relatively new lane and find them oiling a reverse block. That would be as rare as walking into a random lane and they just happen to be oiling a chameleon pattern. And since I HIHGLY doubt the person oiling the lanes even knows WTH a "reverse block" is…I really, really doubt that was the case.
3) As I said before…there was no rule that you couldn't switch balls or throw differently. If the oil pattern is making your ball do something you don't like, use a different ball or throw differently. After that first game, you "seemed" to be back in business and finding your groove so it wasn't "impossible" to adjust. zdawg and I struggled as well early on with that pattern…took us even longer to get in our groove.

As I said in a previous post…I think if the lane conditions are really, really causing havoc…you do things to take the lane conditions out of play. Higher loft, higher speed, a lesser ball…whatever.

[MICHAEL]

Mike, I only have 2 comments about this…actually 3:

1) Thank you for quoting WRW…ANY thread is better when WRW is part of it.
2) You don't KNOW it was a reverse block. It seems like that would be a very, very rare thing to walk into a relatively new lane and find them oiling a reverse block. That would be as rare as walking into a random lane and they just happen to be oiling a chameleon pattern. And since I HIHGLY doubt the person oiling the lanes even knows WTH a "reverse block" is…I really, really doubt that was the case.
3) As I said before…there was no rule that you couldn't switch balls or throw differently. If the oil pattern is making your ball do something you don't like, use a different ball or throw differently. After that first game, you "seemed" to be back in business and finding your groove so it wasn't "impossible" to adjust. zdawg and I struggled as well early on with that pattern…took us even longer to get in our groove.

As I said in a previous post…I think if the lane conditions are really, really causing havoc…you do things to take the lane conditions out of play. Higher loft, higher speed, a lesser ball…whatever.http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif.html)

Wow Aslan, I actually agree with you 100 percent on all 3 of your comments! GULP,,, maybe I need to go see a shrink!!!!

[Mike White]

Mike, I only have 2 comments about this…actually 3:

1) Thank you for quoting WRW…ANY thread is better when WRW is part of it.

2) You don't KNOW it was a reverse block. It seems like that would be a very, very rare thing to walk into a relatively new lane and find them oiling a reverse block. That would be as rare as walking into a random lane and they just happen to be oiling a chameleon pattern. And since I HIHGLY doubt the person oiling the lanes even knows WTH a "reverse block" is…I really, really doubt that was the case.

3) As I said before…there was no rule that you couldn't switch balls or throw differently. If the oil pattern is making your ball do something you don't like, use a different ball or throw differently. After that first game, you "seemed" to be back in business and finding your groove so it wasn't "impossible" to adjust. zdawg and I struggled as well early on with that pattern…took us even longer to get in our groove.

As I said in a previous post…I think if the lane conditions are really, really causing havoc…you do things to take the lane conditions out of play. Higher loft, higher speed, a lesser ball…whatever.

You're right I don't KNOW it was a reverse block, it could have been some other freak oil pattern that showed all the same characteristics as a reverse block, but somehow was different. Maybe the left side was playable. What I do know is, the right side was VERY oily, and the center was much drier. And that is consistent with the reverse block.

You don't get a freshly oiled reverse block by accident. It has to be by incompetence.


As for #3, it goes back to what I said to Iceman in response to his Warrior comment.

If you want to use handicap, then the conditions we bowl on should be similar to those that the averages were obtained.



An excerpt from Bowling Execution by John Jowdey.

Page 27 - Reading and Adapting to the Lanes

Overcoming the Reverse Block

Anyone who bowls on a heavily used lane will eventually come across the
reverse block oil pattern. This pattern is usually not deliberate; it develops
through use of the lane, as bowlers throw the ball in the middle of the lane
to avoid the gutters. This usage dries out the middle of the lane but leaves
oily areas near the gutters, creating a reverse block. By contrast, the crown
condition features heavy oil in the middle and dry areas near the sides.

The reverse block is by far the most difficult scoring condition for any
bowler who throws a hook - and the greater the hook, the worse the
scoring potential. Straight or back-up bowlers my be able to maintain close
to normal averages, but even their scores will suffer as the lane continues
to dry out. Since down-the-middle traffic never touches the outer parts of
the lane, those boards, usually from the 2nd arrow outward, remain
oily enough to cause balls thrown there to slide out, which often results
in washouts or other splits and sometimes causes gutter balls. Any hook
ball that touches the dry middle area will overbook wildly to the opposite
side.

Although bowlers can use strategy to bowl better when facing this type
of lane condition, overall scores are bound to be lower than with more
favorable oil conditions. Since all bowlers on such lanes face the same
problem, the most accurate bowler will usually wind up the winner, albeit
with a score lower than usual.


Zdawg, does this describe the conditions you faced at Temecula?

In the last section, he is referring to the winner as the highest scratch score.

[tccstudent]

You don't get a freshly oiled reverse block by accident. It has to be by incompetence.

I used to bowl in a center that is closed down now. After league some of us would stick around and bowl pot games. The owner would set up a different shot to make it harder. There were many times he put out a reverse block.
Maybe the mechanic that oiled the lanes has a habit of putting up different shots for practice or open bowling and just picked that one for that day. One bowling center I bowl in used to set up different shots all the time on certain lanes.

[Mike White]

I used to bowl in a center that is closed down now. After league some of us would stick around and bowl pot games. The owner would set up a different shot to make it harder. There were many times he put out a reverse block.
Maybe the mechanic that oiled the lanes has a habit of putting up different shots for practice or open bowling and just picked that one for that day. One bowling center I bowl in used to set up different shots all the time on certain lanes.

It's a center that is hurting for leagues (only 3 all week) the last thing they should do is chase off any potential league bowlers by putting out a shot like that.

[zdawg]

You're right I don't KNOW it was a reverse block, it could have been some other freak oil pattern that showed all the same characteristics as a reverse block, but somehow was different. Maybe the left side was playable. What I do know is, the right side was VERY oily, and the center was much drier. And that is consistent with the reverse block.

You don't get a freshly oiled reverse block by accident. It has to be by incompetence.


As for #3, it goes back to what I said to Iceman in response to his Warrior comment.

If you want to use handicap, then the conditions we bowl on should be similar to those that the averages were obtained.




Zdawg, does this describe the conditions you faced at Temecula?

In the last section, he is referring to the winner as the highest scratch score.

Seems accurate, even though I throw it on the slow side (although I'm getting faster) I've NEVER had my ball over hook to that extent - and I bowl on 4 different lanes down here, some of which feel like they haven't been oiled in days. In fact, the reason why I brought my weak ball was just in case the lanes were going to be dry, but as you saw even the shots that I threw that initially looked "good" decided to hook an extra 10 - 12 boards - I've never had that reaction before, so it was definitely new to me.

[noeymc]

It's a center that is hurting for leagues (only 3 all week) the last thing they should do is chase off any potential league bowlers by putting out a shot like that.

i rather have a hard shot then a easy one people who suck need thos crappy patterns to make them selfs feel better i refuse to bowl at some houses just cuz they have way to many 300's there i ex: bz around me prob has 2-5 300s a night and a lot of 800's i wont bowl there to easy when they bowled city none of them even finished in the top 10 scratch all there 230 240 avgs are inflated by a easy shot easy shots are funny in a sport where the balls have become so more advance then the game it self only hard shots should be out there

[zdawg]

i rather have a hard shot then a easy one people who suck need thos crappy patterns to make them selfs feel better i refuse to bowl at some houses just cuz they have way to many 300's there i ex: bz around me prob has 2-5 300s a night and a lot of 800's i wont bowl there to easy when they bowled city none of them even finished in the top 10 scratch all there 230 240 avgs are inflated by a easy shot easy shots are funny in a sport where the balls have become so more advance then the game it self only hard shots should be out there

I don't mind people that only bowl in one house, to each their own.

For me personally, I've been involved in competitive athletics since the age of 6, so I am VERY competitive by nature which means I'm constantly looking to challenge myself. And yes I'm still a beginner, and don't have a 300 game quite yet, but that doesn't mean I want things to be easy. I started in September and didn't know anything about the sport whatsoever, I remember my buddy telling me to "buy a ball that hooks" whereas I never knew there was a difference between house balls and the balls that people buy - I've come a long way since then, LOL.

Once this league is finally over, and my job/living situation is settled, I plan on joining multiple leagues, including a sport league - I chalk up everything good or bad to part of the learning curve.

[noeymc]

I don't mind people that only bowl in one house, to each their own.

For me personally, I've been involved in competitive athletics since the age of 6, so I am VERY competitive by nature which means I'm constantly looking to challenge myself. And yes I'm still a beginner, and don't have a 300 game quite yet, but that doesn't mean I want things to be easy. I started in September and didn't know anything about the sport whatsoever, I remember my buddy telling me to "buy a ball that hooks" whereas I never knew there was a difference between house balls and the balls that people buy - I've come a long way since then, LOL.

Once this league is finally over, and my job/living situation is settled, I plan on joining multiple leagues, including a sport league - I chalk up everything good or bad to part of the learning curve.

i never blame oil for me bowling bad cuz if i didnt find a line and hit 100% of the time then i messed up people can bowl good on any lanes if there game matchs up to the oil and if it dont thats how you know you need to work on ur game instead people change house's or refuse to challenge them selfs

[zdawg]

i never blame oil for me bowling bad cuz if i didnt find a line and hit 100% of the time then i messed up people can bowl good on any lanes if there game matchs up to the oil and if it dont thats how you know you need to work on ur game instead people change house's or refuse to challenge them selfs

I agree, but like I said there are plenty of people in my league alone that having been bowling in that league, in that house, for 10+ years and have no ambition for anything other than that. And I can see their point, but for me I plan to continually challenge myself otherwise there is no point for me, but I see things my way, and others see things their way - what's right for me, might not be right for the guy bowling against me on any given night I guess is my point.

[Mike White]

i never blame oil for me bowling bad cuz if i didnt find a line and hit 100% of the time then i messed up people can bowl good on any lanes if there game matchs up to the oil and if it dont thats how you know you need to work on ur game instead people change house's or refuse to challenge them selfs

There is a difference between bowling bad, and scoring bad.

[Mike White]

Seems accurate, even though I throw it on the slow side (although I'm getting faster) I've NEVER had my ball over hook to that extent - and I bowl on 4 different lanes down here, some of which feel like they haven't been oiled in days. In fact, the reason why I brought my weak ball was just in case the lanes were going to be dry, but as you saw even the shots that I threw that initially looked "good" decided to hook an extra 10 - 12 boards - I've never had that reaction before, so it was definitely new to me.

And when you missed a little right, the ball didn't hook at all.

I moved way in so there would be dry area both to the left, and right of my line to the pocket.

The problem was, there wasn't very much dry area to the right. So if I wanted to hit the right side of the head pin, I had to tempt fate by getting close to the wet.

[Mudpuppy]

It's hard to convey emotion on the internet. Mike and I go at each other a lot but it's usually all in good fun. To be honest, I don't know if he's being serious about the character thing or not…if he's not then ha ha ha…good joke. But if he is, then come on…it's one thing to be a sore loser…but insulting a person's character is going a bit far.

It WAS very friendly and was cool to meet zdawg and bowl with MWhite. I think it's gotten a bit "hostile" because of how this thread has gone. Instead of comments about the tournament, there were a lot of attacks on me and sort of "egging Mike on"..which only makes me more intense to defend the validity of my victory…etc…etc…etc…

But having met Mike and spent hours and hours with him bowling, drilling balls, etc… I find it hard to believe that he'd get so ticked about losing. He's a fairly laid back dude in person. I know he and you have had your disagreements…but I chalk that up to 2 guys that have a lot of knowledge and opinion…and neither wants to necessarily admit they may be wrong. But yeah, I would be surprised if Mike was actually upset. I've never seen him upset.



Well zdawg, as I stated after MY VICTORY…I am open to a rematch. However;

1) I think we should wait until you've figured out which ball you want to have tri-grip drilled, so we can kill two birds with one stone. I don't think it's the miracle cure that Iceman testifies to (on a twice daily basis)…but I think there's a good chance you might like it.

2) I'd like to wait until at the EARLIEST April…but ideally until September. I want to make sure I am able to fully enjoy my victory/championship before immediately putting it up for grabs.

3) Mike would have to agree not to be a sore loser next time. I mean, are we going HAVE to bowl in HIS center?? If we bowl ANYWHERE else (Diamond Bar, Norco, AMF Riverside) will he AGAIN get defeated and claim the alley was tilted or impacted by an earthquake or had a crazy jackalope oil pattern or (insert any excuse imaginable)???? Because I don't know if I can take another round of "sore losing". : (

4) It's gonna take at LEAST 1 month to agree on what averages to use next time for handicap. I'm open to using our averages from the tournament AS LONG AS we're not bowling at Mike's home center. IF WE DO bowl at his center (which would be most convenient given he's there and you're probably getting your ball drilled there)…then I propose we use our league averages but Mike has to use his highest league average in that center. So if he is in a league with a 200 average and a league with a 187 average…he has to use 200…because he has a HUGE advantage on those lanes where he bowls 2-3 times a week and has for what…15 years??? I'd also be willing to bowl at MY center…but wood lanes are going away in April…so I'm not gonna have much of an advantage unless we schedule it in October or something after I have a chance to get used to them.

5) Is this tourney ever gonna "take off"? Are we ever going to attract folks like e-tank or Bunny or that adolescent kid that yelled at me?? Or is it going to be us same 3 clowns???

6) We'll need a new tourney name. We can't use the "2nd Annual….blah blah blah…tournament" because it hasn't been a year since the last one. So we'll have to come up with a NEW tournament…like:

- "The 1st Annual Charity Tournament to Benefit Insane People from Missouri"
or
- "The 1st Annual Bowl1820 Creative Math Tournament of Champions" (where no matter the score, Bowl1820 finds a way to crown MikeW the winner)
or
- "The Rob Mautner/Aslan vs. zDawg/MWhite Celebrity Doubles Tournament" where I (after getting my awesome lesson in 2 weeks) will join Rob (kinda like the Sith) and give MWhite the chance to face BOTH of the "demons"…with zDawg's new improved moderate speed "AlabamaSlamaShot". Granted, Rob would have to drive from Vegas OR we'd have to GO to Vegas…and if we're all in the same car…no matter how entertaining that video WOULD be…I WILL leave Mike in Barstow if he starts talking about 2-handed bowling or how he didn't really lose the tournament in March.

Lots of questions to answer before the next "rematch".

Mudpuppy's Cliff Notes: Mike hates Aslan. zDawg wants rematch. The internet is the root of all evil.

Cliff Notes - YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. Delete the whole post EXCEPT the last sentence. 1 demerit. And who said you could do cliff notes. This thread was over (and dead to me) right after I released my final cliff notes. Now I am just stating this for public record and it is officially re-dead to me after resuscitation for record sake.

[noeymc]

There is a difference between bowling bad, and scoring bad.

so ur saying ur timing was perfect every shot your release was perfect every time an hit ur mark every time back swing was same ht. every time... it was prob somthing in ur game oil is oil once u figure you the pattern and lined up if u did everything 100% right like a robot then we can talk maybe the house just had a hard shot out

[Aslan]

If you want to use handicap, then the conditions we bowl on should be similar to those that the averages were obtained.


Well, then I'm screwed becuase my average is set on 100% wood lanes. And since they are rare, I can't bowl in any tournaments that aren't on wood lanes. :confused:

Actually, by THAT logic....I should have been able to use 138-153 as my average (on synthetics).

I guess my point is, anyone that has played in a tournament, you bowl on what you get. PBA guys actually have it easier because they KNOW the pattern well before showing up. Most amateur tournaments, it can vary. Even if they say "USBC White Pattern"; what if you're in Group B and they don't re-oil after Group A?? The last tournament I was in, it looked very slick...but they didn't re-oil after the morning group...so I got drier conditions (which is good for me) than the AM crowd.

I still think, when it comes to a tournament; you pick a neutral place, and you bowl on what you get. If it's too slick, you gotta slow things down...maybe use a ball with more surface...something with a higher differential, etc... If it's too dry, you speed things up, less surface, lower differential. If the pattern is just weird in one area (as Mike is stating)...you change your entry angle OR you throw a straight ball.

One problem in bowling is 97.9% of bowlers bowl in one house and have inflated averages. And over 70% of them buy the latest greatest low RG (HookMaster 2000) ball which is much more sensitive to lane conditions. So then conditions change, their ball "don't work" and their average drops 30-60 points and suddenly they HATE that alley and it's equipment and lanes and staff.

I've bowled in 10+ different centers in the last 6 months. Primarily in 1-2...but the advantage is learning to make adjustments. Game 1 is brutal sometimes...but you learn to adjust.

CLIFF NOTES: Mudpuppy wants a sandwich. Iceman likes the Hammer Deadly Aim and Tri-Grip. Aslan won the tournament.

[tr33frog]

I'm amazed how difficult it is to figure out handicap. Figured that would be the easy part.

[Mike White]

I still think, when it comes to a tournament; you pick a neutral place, and you bowl on what you get.


That's fine, but then you have to take the pins you knock down, don't ask for handicap also

[tr33frog]

That's fine, but then you have to take the pins you knock down, don't ask for handicap also

Why not stick with highest league currnet league average and base handicap off of that. Everyone shows up with league sheets of all their leagues showing averages. Everyone gets 1 game practice, then 3 games that count.

[Blacksox1]

This back and forth between Aslan and Mike reminds me of the happy face and the sad face.

[zdawg]

This back and forth between Aslan and Mike reminds me of the happy face and the sad face.

:) :(

[Mike White]

Why not stick with highest league currnet league average and base handicap off of that. Everyone shows up with league sheets of all their leagues showing averages. Everyone gets 1 game practice, then 3 games that count.

ANother possibility is to have such an event occur across multiple weekends, at multiple locations, and total pins (plus hdcp) for all locations decides the winner.

That way when you hit the outlier lane conditions like we had at Temecula the results aren't so skewed.

Aslan can't seem to recognize that what were are on is probably the worst possible case for scoring. Worse than totally fried lanes, worse than totally flooded lanes.

But then again, the worse possible case for 99% of people, was the best possible case for him.

[Mike White]

so ur saying ur timing was perfect every shot your release was perfect every time an hit ur mark every time back swing was same ht. every time... it was prob somthing in ur game oil is oil once u figure you the pattern and lined up if u did everything 100% right like a robot then we can talk maybe the house just had a hard shot out

Ask your local house to set up a reversed block for you. 3 units 15 to 15, and 30 units 15 to 2.
They probably won't do it, but if they do, you'll see it wasn't just a "hard shot".

It's hard to judge the length of the oil because once you were in it, there was no back end reaction.
But if you stayed out of the oil, there was very early reaction.

[noeymc]

Ask your local house to set up a reversed block for you. 3 units 15 to 15, and 30 units 15 to 2.
They probably won't do it, but if they do, you'll see it wasn't just a "hard shot".

It's hard to judge the length of the oil because once you were in it, there was no back end reaction.
But if you stayed out of the oil, there was very early reaction.

all i would do is ball up or down remember i can adjust revs and axis i normally start with a light oil ball and i can hook the whole lane now think if i went up to my hammer absolute hook ( i had the guy drill that ball way to strong for any house shot ) ill have to see if they can set that up

[tr33frog]

ANother possibility is to have such an event occur across multiple weekends, at multiple locations, and total pins (plus hdcp) for all locations decides the winner.

But then again, the worse possible case for 99% of people, was the best possible case for him.

Wasn't it hard enough get you all together in one place on one day?

He is going to be near his average no matter where he bowls, and no matter the condition. His ball isn't doing much work out there. You lost this year because you bowled in a crappy house with crappy oil conditions, which he is more immune to, especially with the lower average. I have had people with 160 averages beat me scratch with my 200+ average some times, it just happens. Next year, just make sure to call a place and make sure they oil that morning, and has more than 3 leagues.

[zdawg]

ANother possibility is to have such an event occur across multiple weekends, at multiple locations, and total pins (plus hdcp) for all locations decides the winner.

You know that sounds like a good idea to me and would make the next event that much more fun IMO.

[zdawg]

Wasn't it hard enough get you all together in one place on one day?

Nah, that was the easy part, we planned it out a few months in advance though so that's why it took so long. But the date/location was agreed upon early on.

[Aslan]

Why not stick with highest league currnet league average and base handicap off of that. Everyone shows up with league sheets of all their leagues showing averages. Everyone gets 1 game practice, then 3 games that count.
Thats what we did. But Mike finished 3rd so he now wants the rematch to be either scratch or some "Bowl1820 Remdial Mathematics based average" where handicap is either reduced to near zero or is based on oil conditions. I think it's just sour milk...but it "may" just be a quantum mathematics that is way over my head. 99% sure it's sour milk...but leaving the option open that Mike is a genius and his ideas just too far above my intelect for me to comprehend.


That's fine, but then you have to take the pins you knock down, don't ask for handicap also
No, then we'd have "divisions" based on handicap. So all three of us would bowl, in different divisions, and we'd all get 1st place.


ANother possibility is to have such an event occur across multiple weekends, at multiple locations, and total pins (plus hdcp) for all locations decides the winner. I'm open to that, it would be like "The League" except not nearly as lame and far more entertaining. Granted, it took 3 months and 7 pages of haggling to get the first game completed...we'll be dead before the thing ever ends. ANd when WILL it end? When your pincount (pls handicap) exceeds mine and zdawgs? We'd have to have a definitive number of locations and number of weeks and a definitive end.



But then again, the worse possible case for 99% of people, was the best possible case for him. Because I'm awesome.


You lost this year because you bowled in a crappy house with crappy oil conditions, which he is more immune to, especially with the lower average.
So, in summary, if Mike or tr33frog lose...it's the house and oil conditions. But if Aslan or zdawg lose, it's because they were outbowled?? WTFruit!?


Next year, just make sure to call a place and make sure they oil that morning, and has more than 3 leagues.
They DID oil that morning...and we DID call ahead. Granted, I didn't ask about oil patterns because the person answering the phone didn't know what "handicap" was so I figured asking about oil patterns would be like asking Iceman about haircuts.


You know that sounds like a good idea to me and would make the next event that much more fun IMO.
Lets do it. I'm open to it...granted I want it to be separate from the 1st Annual Bill.....etc... tournament victory. I'm not giving up my crown. If you 2 want to start a travel league where we go to different places and keep track of averages plus handicap, etc....I'm DEFINITELY IN....but at the end of the day, I still won the invitational.

At the end of the day, I'm GOING to win the "MWhiteZDawgAslan Bowling Boards Internet Celebrity Travel League" for the same reason I won the Invitational; my style is less dependent on lane conditions and less affected by said conditions. I'm not saying I don't bowl better in one place versus another, but I can adjust. Here are my averages at different centers (thanks to PinPal). I've actually bowled at 10+ different centers in LA. Orange, and Riverside counties...but this is only where i've bowled since having the PinPal App:

Concourse Bowling Center (Anaheim): 76 games + 24 week league, 167.59 average (165 league/USBC average).
Titan Bowl (Fullerton): 9 games, 141.78 average.
AMF Friendly Hills (Whittier): 6 games, 159.00 average.
Forest Lanes (Forest Hills): 3 games, 187.67 average.
Oak Tree Lanes (Diamond Bar): 6 games, 164.67 average.
Temecula Lanes (Temecula): 3 games, 151.33 average.
AMF Riverside Lanes (Riverside): 4 games, 156.25 average.
AMF Carter Lanes (Fullerton): 11-week league, 138 average.

So the lane conditions aren't gonna matter...I'll roll 140-190 (173-223 handicap). Your only "hope" is that on a given day in a given house, your equipment and style matches up well.

And of that list...and I don't know if this is coincidental or not, the 3 AMF houses...WAY more oil than the rest of the list. WAY more! And if you want random/messed up lane conditions...Titan Bowl is a 6-8 lane alley on a college campus...it's debateable whether they have an established oil pattern or if they just use a mop and squirt bottle...very "eratic" conditions.

MUDPUPPY CLIFF NOTES: Energy bars taste bad. Aslan is NOT a good bowler. Numbers give me a headache.

[noeymc]

can i get in on this you can pick my houses but i refuse to bowl at bz cuz to easy of a house shot you can google and pick the houses i will bowl at elyria ohio 44035 i bowl at rebmans as of now so wouldnt be fair for me to bowl there but its up to you ill get print outs of my score i can get a list of house's near by i wouldnt do oberlin lanes cuz its hand written scores let me know if i can get in on it =D cali is to far for me lol

[tccstudent]

can i get in on this you can pick my houses but i refuse to bowl at bz cuz to easy of a house shot you can google and pick the houses i will bowl at elyria ohio 44035 i bowl at rebmans as of now so wouldnt be fair for me to bowl there but its up to you ill get print outs of my score i can get a list of house's near by i wouldnt do oberlin lanes cuz its hand written scores let me know if i can get in on it =D cali is to far for me lol

I want in too since I do bowl in every house in town I do have a few tournaments coming up one in Oklahoma City (April 13) and one in Springfield Mo(sometime in May), and might be going to Wichita Ks(early April if we go) also I have never bowled in any of those house and would gladly let those tournament results stand.

[tr33frog]

Aslan - If I heard that the house only has 3 leagues, that would probably mean that there is not much effort put into maintaining the oiling equipment, just because they oiled it doesn't mean it was working right. I've heard about that in other houses, so this wouldn't shock me in this case. A more traditional Brunswick/AMF/etc with lots of leagues might make the best option.

Are you arguing with me that some styles of bowling are not less susceptible to certain oil conditions? I also said that I get beat by people with a 160 average, it just happens sometimes. Both other bowlers had to fight the lane condition, you didn't. That isn't bitching, that isn't an excuse, it just a simple fact. So I don't get what point you are trying to make about me, other than you picking out one line to get your panties in a bunch about.

[Aslan]

That isn't SMILing, that isn't an excuse, it just a simple fact. So I don't get what point you are trying to make about me, other than you picking out one line to get your panties in a bunch about.

1) I edited that word because if I even include a quote of a questionable word...Bowl1820 will infaction the "poo" out of me.

2) My point was clear. For Mike (and you to back him up) to make THIS big of a deal out of lane conditions...TOTALLY discredits his opponents (in this case zdawg and I). And it TOTALLY implies that Mike bowled PERFECTLY....and it was only "The Gods" willing the oil pattern to be non-ideal...or even intentionally to thwart him.

"Could" it be that be bowled "sub-par"??? I mean, is that even on the table?? "Could" it be that zdawg and/or myself stepped it up and answered the call??

Put yourself in my shoes tr33...if you bowled in a competition against Iceman and JaeMau...and Iceman finished third...then went on a rampage/terror about how the ONLY reason he didn't completely destroy you and JaeMau was because the lane conditions were weird...and he had a theory that the lanes were oiled wrong...wouldn't that at least "feel" like he was trying to discredit your victory?? Isn't part of bowling the ability to "outbowl the conditions"? Rob Mautner might say "no...you CANT OUTBOWL A BAD BALL REACTION".

Or....would Rob say that you COULD outbowl a bad ball reaction...by switching balls?? Wouldn't Rob M. give his professional coaching advice (to Mike W.) that perhaps, just perhaps, he should have found something in his arsenal with a higher RG or more polished surface?? Maybe a lower differential because it's grabbing and reacting too abruptly??

Now, Rob would never coach Mike...because:
A) They are arch enemies.
B) Mike is uncoachable.

BUT IF HE DID...it would be interesting to see what advice Rob would give to Mike...or zdawg...or even myself. Would Rob agree with Mike's strategy of left movement? Or would he recommend a ball change? Would Rob recommend a speed change to ZDawg? Or a ball change (assuming zdawg had more than one ball)? What about Aslan? Was his ball a good fit for the condition??

See, as much as I disagree with Rob M. that you "can't outbowl a bad ball reaction"...I think you "can". I had a ball that with my style worked fine on those lanes. Mike and zdawg seemed to struggle mroe with their ball reactions. They seemed to be trying to "outbowl a bad ball reaction"....but are making it seem like it's not their fault or their ball's fault...it's the LANE. So...how does that fit into Rob's article? Does Rob need a follow-up article: "You can't outbowl a bad lane condition"?

I'd hope that Rob would come in here and respond...but given this topic involves Mike W....I'm sure Rob isn't gonna get within 10ft. I'll try to remember to ask him during my "lesson" in 2 weeks!!!

[MICHAEL]

YOU ARE THE WINNER!!

who knows next time, but its not next time at this glorious moment, and you are the champ! Live in the moment and enjoy!!

I get this feeling even though we are 1800 miles apart,,, that your win has been diminished by a bunch of excuses made by many on this site. Raise you chin up HIGH!

[Aslan]

Raise you chin up HIGH!

I've always lived by the motto that, "if you hold your chin too high; you're liable to get punched in it." I'm modest. I'm not one to brag. Sure, I won the tournament. And yes, I'm incredibly good looking and intelligent and have a rapist's wit. And yes, I look good in almost any color or fabric...could probably cure cancer if I didn't hate being around sick people. Sure, all these things are true. But I don't "brag" about it. I'm modest...as modest as one like me can be.

But thank you Iceman....see THAT is a guy that knows a true champion when he sees one!! Soon, in addition to praising the glory that is his friend Jason/The Dude....he will equally praise the glory that IS Aslan...not asian...Aslan.

[tr33frog]

Aslan - It seems that you took a post where I was telling Mike that sometimes you lose into some completely different direction. My point was, suck it up, it happens, only trying to put it in a nice way.

You did win the tournament, but I will add that IMO the better bowler is always the one with the higher scratch series. That is something that holds true for me when someone beats me scratch, they were the better bowler that night/game/year/etc. If he beats me with handicap he still the winner, and I wouldn't argue that he wasn't, but I wouldn't call him the better bowler. That would hold true to me if I beat Jaemau by losing scratch by 5 pins, but because of handicap I beat him by 2 (can't remember his average, but I know it is 220+, and I'm at 213 so I could get a few pins). I would get the trophey, but I'd still feel like he beat me, because my score was lower. But that is the way I roll, lol.

[noeymc]

he won anyone complaining about losing needs to just bowl better

[Aslan]

You did win the tournament, but I will add that IMO the better bowler is always the one with the higher scratch series.

I see that. During leagues I always want to win scratch so they don't have the "excuse" that they only lost because of the handicap. And due to outscoring me by 20 pins in games 2 and 3; MWhite beat me scratch by about 40 pins.

As I've said, I respect Mike's game...even if he doesnt respect mine. He showed his superior talent when he rebounded in Game 2 and made a match of it. But as Bowl1820 eluded to, Mike lost because he "should" be able to beat a new bowler like me by more than 39 pins. Thats the great thing about handicap...whether golf or bowling...it's about how well you bowl relative to how well you CAN bowl. If zdawg and I, both beginners, bowl against MWhite scratch....he could bowl the worst series of his life and still sqweak out a victory...and thats silly. It's like a YMCA youth basketball team playing against UNLV. Sure UNLV players are better than the youth YMCA team...and if they only win by 30 points, it would be considered a HUGE embarassment!!

I'm like Rocky Balboa and Mike is Apollo Creed. It doesn't matter that the fight (first one) was a "draw". I went the distance against a superior bowler which in and of itself is the victory.

[noeymc]

no such thing as like winning either you win or you lose thats it 2nd is the 1st loser be the best or go home i dont like ties i dont like people when they said i tryd my best losers say that stuff

[Mike White]

I see that. During leagues I always want to win scratch so they don't have the "excuse" that they only lost because of the handicap. And due to outscoring me by 20 pins in games 2 and 3; MWhite beat me scratch by about 40 pins.

As I've said, I respect Mike's game...even if he doesnt respect mine.

It's not about respect, it's where you are in your development, and what kind of things you are trying too work on.

Put the DYDS thing on the far back burner, it's doing you more damage than good at this point.

#1 get the ball to roll. You currently skid the ball down the lane, which is the cause of so many 5 pins.

Notice on wood lanes, there is more friction between the lane and the ball, which makes it more likely to roll.

Synthetic lanes aren't necessarily more oily, it's just a harder, less friction surface.

Try sanding the surface of one of your balls, and use that on synthetic lanes.



He showed his superior talent when he rebounded in Game 2 and made a match of it. But as Bowl1820 eluded to, Mike lost because he "should" be able to beat a new bowler like me by more than 39 pins. Thats the great thing about handicap...whether golf or bowling...it's about how well you bowl relative to how well you CAN bowl. If zdawg and I, both beginners, bowl against MWhite scratch....he could bowl the worst series of his life and still sqweak out a victory...and thats silly. It's like a YMCA youth basketball team playing against UNLV. Sure UNLV players are better than the youth YMCA team...and if they only win by 30 points, it would be considered a HUGE embarrassment!!

Your analogies show you don't understand what we faced at Temecula. You are assuming the basketball court would remain the same dimensions. Ok lets have UNLV spot the YMCA kids 100 points. Seems fair.

Now change the rim so the ball barely fits through, UNLV might still win, but I doubt they would score 100 points to beat the handicap.



I'm like Rocky Balboa and Mike is Apollo Creed. It doesn't matter that the fight (first one) was a "draw". I went the distance against a superior bowler which in and of itself is the victory.


Oh wait, punching you in the face was an option?

Rematch!!!!

[noeymc]

mike that post above has gotten u my respect cept for the punching part =D

[Aslan]

no such thing as like winning either you win or you lose thats it 2nd is the 1st loser be the best or go home i dont like ties i dont like people when they said i tryd my best losers say that stuff
Okay new rule...noeymc can't respond in jiberish or iphone autocorrect or a drunken stooper...because that makes no sense.


Your analogies show you don't understand what we faced at Temecula.
Oh thats right...we're still on that kick that for some unknown reason...a random bowling alley...on a Saturday for little Ricky's B-Day party...has decided to institute an oil pattern that is not only detrimental to their recreational bowlers...and not only is so rare that it is virtually unheard of...but would require the mechanic to have PBA level lane oiling experience.

I look forward to Part II of this adventure...the MWhite/ZDawg Southern California Bowling Center Tour. I can't imagine what crazy oil patterns you'll use as an excuse in the NEXT tour stop.

MW: "Well, I lost by 140 pins...rolled a 98 that first game...but it was fairly obvious that the lane was oiled in a 3/4 Zombie Bone Yank pattern...where the mechanic usues a toothbrush to lightly oil boards 5, 11, and 16....then uses spit on boards 7 and 12....then buffs it with a used diaper. It's a rare pattern...but explains why I once again lost."

PDW called...he says it's easier to just blame fan distractions than make up weird oil pattern excuses.

[tccstudent]

no such thing as like winning either you win or you lose thats it 2nd is the 1st loser be the best or go home i dont like ties i dont like people when they said i tryd my best losers say that stuff


Okay new rule...noeymc can't respond in jiberish or iphone autocorrect or a drunken stooper...because that makes no sense.


Noeymc was paraphrasing Ricky Bobby the greatest NASCAR driver of all time. SHAKE AND BAKE IF YOUR NOT FIRST YOUR LAST

[Mike White]

Okay new rule...noeymc can't respond in jiberish or iphone autocorrect or a drunken stooper...because that makes no sense.

It's not gibberish, noeymc just lacks punctuation.


no such thing as like winning
either you win or you lose thats it
2nd is the 1st loser
be the best or go home
i dont like ties
i dont like people when they said i tryd my best
losers say that stuff

[Mike White]

Aslan, BTW, is my SDCard coming back anytime soon, or should I go buy a new one?

[noeymc]

It's not gibberish, noeymc just lacks punctuation.

see he gets it

[Aslan]

Aslan, BTW, is my SDCard coming back anytime soon, or should I go buy a new one?

I was waiting to see if we were scheduling a rematch anytime soon and I'd just bring it with. Plus, you said you didn't need it back right away.

I can mail it next week. Does anyone know if mailing a memory card requires any special packaging or anything or if it can go in a standard envelope?

[vdubtx]

I was waiting to see if we were scheduling a rematch anytime soon and I'd just bring it with. Plus, you said you didn't need it back right away.

I can mail it next week. Does anyone know if mailing a memory card requires any special packaging or anything or if it can go in a standard envelope?

Tape to an index card and put in envelope. No extra postage would be needed.

[Aslan]

Tape to an index card and put in envelope. No extra postage would be needed.

Will do. Thx.

[Mike White]

I was waiting to see if we were scheduling a rematch anytime soon and I'd just bring it with. Plus, you said you didn't need it back right away.

I can mail it next week. Does anyone know if mailing a memory card requires any special packaging or anything or if it can go in a standard envelope?

My thought about the multi-location idea would be to have a running total, lets say 5 locations, to determine a title holder, but we wouldn't stop at just 5 locations, After the 6th location, we would use the scores from locations 2 thru 6, then 3 thru 7, etc.

That way each month could be a potential new holder, or a repeat.

My thought was try and schedule the 1st Saturday of the month.

The only draw back I see there, is the 1st Saturday in June, I'll be in Laughlin.

[zdawg]

My thought about the multi-location idea would be to have a running total, lets say 5 locations, to determine a title holder, but we wouldn't stop at just 5 locations, After the 6th location, we would use the scores from locations 2 thru 6, then 3 thru 7, etc.

That way each month could be a potential new holder, or a repeat.

My thought was try and schedule the 1st Saturday of the month.

The only draw back I see there, is the 1st Saturday in June, I'll be in Laughlin.

Sounds good to me, assuming I don't have to move back east, I should have some clarity as to my job situation within the next week or two.

[Mike White]

Narcos? WAIT A SECOND. Sounds like there could be a disqualification here. Has the results of the drug test come back yet? Are there PEDS involved? Is this how the california kid won the match?

Actually as I'm reading more posts from Aslan, I think during league he's taking PDDs to unintentionally keep his average down.

PDDs, Performance De-Enhancing Drugs. i.e. Alcohol.

[noeymc]

Actually as I'm reading more posts from Aslan, I think during league he's taking PDDs to unintentionally keep his average down.

PDDs, Performance De-Enhancing Drugs. i.e. Alcohol.

i bowl better drunk to be honest cuz i just go up throw my ball at my mark care free

[Aslan]

Actually as I'm reading more posts from Aslan, I think during league he's taking PDDs to unintentionally keep his average down.

PDDs, Performance De-Enhancing Drugs. i.e. Alcohol.

There's some truth to that.

I have no problem with a first Saturday "Tour". Let me take a look at a map and see what that tour would look like.

P.S. I will set up a new thread for the Tour.

[Mike White]

There's some truth to that.

I have no problem with a first Saturday "Tour". Let me take a look at a map and see what that tour would look like.

P.S. I will set up a new thread for the Tour.

If possible, schedule April 5th for your wood lanes before they disappear.

[Aslan]

If possible, schedule April 5th for your wood lanes before they disappear.

They said it would be in April, now I heard June. So its hard to say. I posted the proposed schedule on the other thread. We could always move them around as needed.

If you guys don't like the proposed centers, we could always just each pick our 3 favorites and do it that way.