Suggestions wanted on a new ball.

[Ryan88]

I just got back into bowling two years ago after a college hiatus. I bought a First Blood last year and it was awesome for me up until the volume of the oil pattern at the house I bowl at increased. Long story short the ball is coming up short. I am looking for something to cut through the heavy oil but is still strong on the backend. I really dig the motion of the First Blood. I was looking at both the Hyper Cell and the Ruckus Feud. But am very open to other suggestions (I can't get over the scents in Storm balls though). I have always liked the Hammer stuff, but I don't know if they have anything that will fit the bill? Maybe the Absolut Hook of the Purple Taboo? Or the new Widow?

Thanks,

Ryan

[dpatrickv]

I am a big DV8 fan and the Feud would cut through just about anything. On the other hand I used to have a black widow venom that was one of my favorite all time balls so the new widow would look mighty tempting.

[Ryan88]

I worry that the Feud may even be a little much. I am looking for something 4-7 boards stronger than the First Blood. It is so hard to pick with all these decisions out there.

I forgot to put in my original post that I am a middle of the road player at best when it comes to revs (250-300 would be my guess) that throws about 16-17mph.

[dpatrickv]

If you think the feud might be too much look into the Nightmare series, or the original Ruckus.

The new Widow is still probably a good choice.

[Aslan]

I'd suggest:

1) Brunswick Aura Paranormal or Mystic of even just the Aura. I think any of those 3, especially the Paranormal or Mystic. But if $$$ is an issue, the Aura is currently on sale at bowlingball.com.

2) Rotogrip Hyper Cell- I think you were right on with the Hyper Cell.

Other considerations:
3) Radical Reax Pearl
4) Storm Sync

[Ptnomore]

I recently picked up a new Motiv Cruel Intent to replace my Brunswick Wicked Siege, and have been very impressed wit it. Actually, the first ball I got was a mistake at 14lbs (n a box marked 15lbs). But finished the game with it anyway. Was really impressed with the movement with this ball 1lb lighter than I normally bowl with. My 15lb'r should be ready tonight. I made the move to Motiv to try something different. They've got an impressive backing and I haven't found anything negative about their newer stuff.

If I didn't buy this ball a day before the new Hammer Black Widow Assassin was announced, I'd be ALL over that. I am a HUGE fan of that gas mask core.

[YODA]

Also you could look at the Raptor p7 and Talon if the lane is using heavy oil. Or take a step down just a bit into the High Med-Low Heavy oil and try the Primal Rage.

[manke]

You should get the brunswick mastermind, it is flippin awsome and a backend that doesnt quit!!!

[Aslan]

You should get the brunswick mastermind, it is flippin awsome and a backend that doesnt quit!!!

Thats WAY more ball than he indicated he was looking for.

[striker12]

i'm surpriced that your first blood is coming up short on more volume oil because the first blood is a agressive ball maby you might have to tighten your line up abit but if you are looking to go more aggressive then you should look into the brunswick mastermind or c300 crazy antic.

but the crazy antic is less agressive then the cold blood but the hyper cell and the first blood are both the same agressive just alittle different so you don't really need a more aggressive ball then the first blood you might just have to tighten your line up


but also 1 more thing how is your first blood drilled------- pin down, pin up, or pin to the side

[Ryan88]

The First Blood is drilled pin up and it works great everywhere except my league lanes which are a bit notorious for being difficult.

[RobLV1]

I can't help but say that this is one of the scariest threads I've ever seen! Ryan starts the thread by saying that his First Blood is coming up a little short on oilier lane conditions. Next, just about everyone and his brother jumps in saying buy this or buy that because it works for me, or it works for my best friend, or it works for my brother Fred.

Every bowler is an individual with a unique combination of speed, rev rate, axis tilt, axis rotation, and PAP. What works for them may not, probably will not, work for you. Look at the facts and the numbers.

Consider that the First Blood has an rg (radius of gyration of 2.48), a differential of 0.056, a hybrid cover material, and a 1500 abralon surface with Powerhouse Factory Finish (polish). The Black Widow Assassin has an rg of 2.50 (goes longer than the First Blood), a differential of 0.058 (very slightly stronger than the First Blood (meaningless unless you have a rev rate of 450 rpm or higher), a solid cover material, and a surface finish of 1000 abralon with Powerhouse Factory Finish polish. So, the First Blood has a core that is designed to roll earlier than the Black Widow, a differential that is so close as to be totally insignificant, a cover material that will read the friction in the oil slightly more, and the friction in the dry slightly less, and a cover finish that will go slightly longer, if both are polished the same, which they probably are not considering that the First Blood was marketed as a ball for medium oil, and the Black Widow as a ball for heavy oil.

Before you go out and make another $200 donation, change the surface of the First Blood to 2000 abralon (500 to 2000) without polish and go from there. I really don't think you need a new ball, just a new surface.

Rob Mautner

[Ptnomore]

I can't help but say that this is one of the scariest threads I've ever seen! Ryan starts the thread by saying that his First Blood is coming up a little short on oilier lane conditions. ...
Rob Mautner

Actually, what Ryan said was ..." I bought a First Blood last year and it was awesome for me up until the volume of the oil pattern at the house I bowl at increased. Long story short the ball is coming up short. I am looking for something to cut through the heavy oil but is still strong on the backend. "

So, his statement about the "ball coming up a bit short" can be mis-read, if you don't read all the words.

Our suggestions seem to be right on target if you read all of the words.

[Ryan88]

In Layman's terms can someone contrast the motion between the Hyper Cell and the Ruckus Feud?

I really appreciate all the suggestions thus far. This forum is proving quite helpful.

[dpatrickv]

Just visit both sites and they have a picture of the lines.

Hypercell

http://www.rotogrip.com/balls/hyper-cell

Feud

http://dv8bowling.com/balls/ruckus-feud/

[RobLV1]

Ptnomore: I did read all the words, and I understand that the phrase "coming up a bit shot" was figurative, not literal language. That being said:

Ryan88: I have to stand by my previous recommendation. Both the Hypercell and the Ruckus Feud are asymmetrical solids with rg measurements that are significantly higher than the First Blood (rg 2.48). The Hypercell has an rg of 2.52, and the Ruckus Feud has an rg of 2.54. The higher the rg measurement, the more resistance there is to the ball revving up, so the further it goes down the lane. If your First Blood is not getting the job done in heavy oil, then going to a ball that is designed to go longer is probably not going to help much, in fact, they will probably make your problem worse. Both the Hypercell and the Ruckus have high differentials: 0.056 and 0.052, as does the First Blood (0.056). So, what you are looking at is that in terms of the elements that cannot be changed; the rg, differential, and cover material, the First Blood is the most aggressive which should work the best in heavier oil. The Hypercell is in the middle, with the main difference being a higher rg that makes it want to go longer, and the Ruckus having an even higher rg to make it go longer yet.

So what should you do? First of all, as I said earlier, change the surface on the First Blood to try to get it to read the midlane more to combat the oil. If that doesn't work, take a look at the way the ball is laid out. You say that it is drilled pin up, but what are the angles used in the layout? If the pin is above the finger holes, and the mass bias mark is near the thumb hole, then the ball is drilled to go long and angular which may be why it isn't working for you on heavier oil. It's a lot less expensive to have a ball plugged and redrilled than it is to go out and spend your hard-earned money on a new ball based on what other bowlers say works for them, particularly others who have never seen you bowl.

Without actually seeing a ball reaction, noone can tell you definitively what will work for you. That being said, the reactions of bowling balls are all based on physics, and numbers are not prejudicial. The rg, the differential, the layout, and the surface all relate to how the ball reacts to the lane and retains the energy for the most effective result. The numbers don't care what the ball looks like, how cool its name is, what it smells like, or how it works for someone else.

[Ptnomore]

I read into Ryan's first post a bit more, and picked up on something else...The First Blood is a year old, and has seen consistent usage. Rob is on to something.

Ryan: have you had the ball baked to get the oil out of it, or had the surface touched up at all? As Rob suggested, if not changing the surface, at a minimum, a touch up may be needed. Lower grit (Med-heavy oil ball) surfaces get "shinier" as they get used, making the ball go long and less reactive as time goes on. The surface needs to be dulled back down periodically, increasing the traction in the oil AND smooth out the back end, which is what you need if I'm reading it correctly. The higher volume of oil used by your house, might be coinciding with your current balls' need to be de-oiled, and re-surfaced. Definitely worth a chat with your pro-shop operator. 30-60 games is all that these balls get before they need to be baked AND have the surfaces scuffed. Even if you bowl only one league, that's only 1/3-2/3 thru a 30 week season. If you used that ball all of last fall/winter season, and this one as well, that ball is saturated, and probably where a majority of your problem lies.

[Aslan]

Before you go out and make another $200 donation, change the surface of the First Blood to 2000 abralon (500 to 2000) without polish and go from there. I really don't think you need a new ball, just a new surface.

Rob Mautner

WHAT!? I never thought I'd read that!

Rob...you're obviously right. Wait...what? WHT!?

But you are. And I, as a rule, tend not to get involved in the 65-75 threads per year where people ask everyone which ball they should buy. My reasoning (some you would agree with and some you might not) is:
1) As Rob stated...a ball's movement and trajectory can change drastically based on how it's thrown, lane conditions, and surface conditions...not to mention drilling layout.
2) Given #1 above, and here's where Rob and I may or may not disagree....ANY ball can do ANYTHING (within reason). It's not the ball. You can take a weak ball and drill it thumbless with a balance hole and that thing will hook coast to coast . Especially if you add in a surface change.

So given those 2 things...ANY ball can suit you. ANY ball can get to the pocket earlier. Even your OWN ball with a surface change or a re-drill could get to the pocket sooner. The difference between your First Blood and my recommendation the Brunswick Paranormal is relatively small. And using Rob's numbers...would actually be WORSE than the First Blood since it has an rg of 2.533, a differential of .052, and a 2000 surface.

But the #3 reason I don't usually reply to ball recommendation threads is (and Rob mentioned this sort of)...people generally just want to buy a new ball. And they don't care about rgs and mass bias and differentials. They want to buy either Motiv or DV8....because those are cooler than Brunswick or Columbia. And they want the X, Y, or maybe Z ball because those are cool colors and have names like "Smackdown" or "Beatdown" or "Azkicker".

Listen to Rob (What!?)....de-oil it, change the surface a little...see if that helps. It'll save you $150. And if it doesn't work...or if you just really want a new ball because you're sick of that one (which is toally cool)...get whatever ya want. You could even get another First Blood and have it drilled differently. I'm cheap...so I'd get the AURA...and just have it drilled/surfaced in a way that will make it work where the First Blood was struggling. It saves $50-$100 which I can use for mixed drinks and Bleu Cheese burgers.

[tccstudent]

But the #3 reason I don't usually reply to ball recommendation threads is (and Rob mentioned this sort of)...people generally just want to buy a new ball. And they don't care about rgs and mass bias and differentials. They want to buy either Motiv or DV8....because those are cooler than Brunswick or Columbia. And they want the X, Y, or maybe Z ball because those are cool colors and have names like "Smackdown" or "Beatdown" or "Azkicker".


Motiv DV8 Brunswick Columbia you know what they all have in common they just wish they were as cool as a Strom

[Aslan]

Motiv DV8 Brunswick Columbia you know what they all have in common they just wish they were as cool as a Strom

They wish they were as fragaranced as Storm. Or were you talking about Petr Strom?

[sprocket]

I have a suggestion. Don't buy one. I just rolled 804 with an 11 year old ball that has hundreds, maybe over a thousand games on it. I de-oiled it at home and resurfaced it and polished it. Maybe you already have old stuff you could revive. It's a little hard for me to believe that there aren't older balls that are just as good as any new stuff coming out. The best balls of all time may have already been produced.

[Aslan]

They should make a rule that you can't buy a ball without rolling a 300 with the ball you have. That would literally kill the bowling ball manufacturers...but it would be sweet. Even better, you CAN'T buy bowling balls...you only get a new one if your's breaks (and it's replaced with the exact same one) OR if you bowl a 300 you get a new one from the USBC.

Bamm. Solid.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: I'm in shock!

[YODA]

They should make a rule that you can't buy a ball without rolling a 300 with the ball you have. That would literally kill the bowling ball manufacturers...but it would be sweet. Even better, you CAN'T buy bowling balls...you only get a new one if your's breaks (and it's replaced with the exact same one) OR if you bowl a 300 you get a new one from the USBC.

Bamm. Solid.

Yeah, I would quit bowling if this ^ happened LOL.... I love all the colors, and differant balls myself :)

[tccstudent]

They should make a rule that you can't buy a ball without rolling a 300 with the ball you have. That would literally kill the bowling ball manufacturers...but it would be sweet. Even better, you CAN'T buy bowling balls...you only get a new one if your's breaks (and it's replaced with the exact same one) OR if you bowl a 300 you get a new one from the USBC.

Bamm. Solid.
Then we wouldnt be able to have wonderful bowling ball giveaways where you can win a ball

[Ptnomore]

They should make a rule that you can't buy a ball without rolling a 300 with the ball you have. That would literally kill the bowling ball manufacturers...but it would be sweet. Even better, you CAN'T buy bowling balls...you only get a new one if your's breaks (and it's replaced with the exact same one) OR if you bowl a 300 you get a new one from the USBC.

Bamm. Solid.

Having experienced ball death of a ball that I took very good care of, cleaning after each use, not leaving it in a car ever, routinely de-oiled and re-surfaced, I'd LOVE to be able to obtain one of the older high performance balls. There just aren't enough out there to go around.

My Dad, well into his 60's still bowls 3-4 leagues a week with 10-20 year old equipment and averages 210-220. So I know the old stuff is much better that what we get today. Maybe he'll pass those gems on to me someday. In teh mean time, Thank the EPA, I guess, for what we get today.

And if I'm spending the money on a new ball, I'm buying a fresh one, recently released, so I know it hasn't been sitting in a box for a year or more, possibly having spent 1/3 of it's life already. Not enough is known yet about what is causing coverstock hardening, core crumbling, etc. I'm not going to take my chances on a ball that is on sale, not knowing how much life it as left. That just may be my crazy logical engineering mind over-thinking things.

[sprocket]

Having experienced ball death of a ball that I took very good care of, cleaning after each use, not leaving it in a car ever, routinely de-oiled and re-surfaced, I'd LOVE to be able to obtain one of the older high performance balls. There just aren't enough out there to go around.



What if frequent cleaning, resurfacing and de-oiling is actually what CAUSES premature ball death? Scary thought huh? That could be a whole new topic.

I don't wipe the oil off, except on my shirt, seldom clean with anything but mild cleaner, seldom resurface and if I do de-oil it is a warm water bath with mild dish soap. The only balls I own that I have seen die are two where I attempted more aggressive de-oiling. I took one Lane 1 ball and but it in the oven on low heat and it really brought some hook back. I tried the exact same thing with another Lane 1 ball and it was dead, dead, dead. After awhile I tried it again on the other ball and it too died.

[Aslan]

Then we wouldnt be able to have wonderful bowling ball giveaways where you can win a ball

Yeah right. I never win anyways....so I view all giveaways as being rigged.



And if I'm spending the money on a new ball, I'm buying a fresh one, recently released, so I know it hasn't been sitting in a box for a year or more, possibly having spent 1/3 of it's life already. Not enough is known yet about what is causing coverstock hardening, core crumbling, etc. I'm not going to take my chances on a ball that is on sale, not knowing how much life it as left. That just may be my crazy logical engineering mind over-thinking things.
If bowling balls "died" from sitting in boxes....we'd see a lot more of them die the first time some throws them 17mph on a hard surface. Bowling balls aren't like wine or Flowers....they don't die of old age. They die from use or misuse or cleaning or baking or surfacing. I sure as HAY hope they don't buy from old age...because I have quite a few undrilled balls waiting their turns in my closet and I'd hate to open a box and see a pile of ashes and a note that reads, "I waited as long as I could."


What if frequent cleaning, resurfacing and de-oiling is actually what CAUSES premature ball death? Scary thought huh? That could be a whole new topic.

Okay...now you guys are REALLY scaring the **** out of me. First my balls are dieing of old age....now if I wipe them with ball cleaner they are going to die....it's just too much. Anxiety = too high #scaredballess

[tccstudent]

Yeah right. I never win anyways....so I view all giveaways as being rigged.
s

Well I dont know hell I won after only being on the site for a few weeks. Don't mean to rub it in. At least to much. I am sure you will win someday.

[YODA]

Well I dont know hell I won after only being on the site for a few weeks. Don't mean to rub it in. At least to much. I am sure you will win someday.

:) yeah I hope to win someday also:)

Back to the OP, my mom and uncle both bowl and still use 8 year old balls. My uncle has a older ebonite and it's 12 years old I believe and head bowled 300s with it his last one being 2 months ago.

[larry mc]

I second the mastermind , if u think it might be too much try the new mastermind genius thats coming out , the core is awesome and they are a great price with the instant rebate.

[tccstudent]

I second the mastermind , if u think it might be too much try the new mastermind genius thats coming out , the core is awesome and they are a great price with the instant rebate.

I will not third the mastermind since it is made by brunswick. Pick a good ball like anything from Storm

[larry mc]

I will not third the mastermind since it is made by brunswick. Pick a good ball like anything from Storm

storm makes smelly garbage that hit like sponges

[larry mc]

I will not third the mastermind since it is made by brunswick. Pick a good ball like anything from Storm

who do u think makes that dv8 hellraiser terror u have

[tccstudent]

who do u think makes that dv8 hellraiser terror u have

You mean the ball that is sitting in my corner collecting dust

I dont have nothing against brunswick really they do have some decent equipment out there but they just dont seem to be good to me.

[larry mc]

You mean the ball that is sitting in my corner collecting dust

I dont have nothing against brunswick really they do have some decent equipment out there but they just dont seem to be good to me.

thats how i feel about storm , they just dont match up well with my game so far but id still give em a try again , im telling u the mastermind is a beast

[Ryan88]

I ended up getting a Hyper Cell two weeks ago and have used it a few times so far. The ball is very strong and does exactly what I wanted from it.

[larry mc]

You mean the ball that is sitting in my corner collecting dust

I dont have nothing against brunswick really they do have some decent equipment out there but they just dont seem to be good to me.

you know u could always send me that hell raiser if u want to clear up some closet space.. :D