Throwing more of an arc rather than a "straight" hook and shoulders

[zdawg]

This post was inspired by Hammer's thread about aiming your swing.

As I've been working on my release staying behind the ball consistently, I've noticed when I'm bowling well I can get a TON more revs. In practice I'm noticing more of an arc to my shots, rather than just bowling straight and letting the ball hook in. Basically allowing me to play further and further inside.

I had a coach early on tell me that my shoulders should be square/parallel to the foul line at the release, however this seems impossible if I'm aiming at a target 10 - 15 boards to the right of where I'm lined up. Guess I'm just trying to figure out if he was just saying that as I was just starting out, or if I'm misunderstanding something here.

[mc_runner]

Someone more knowledgeable than me will probably correct this, but I've switched to a more inside line this season and have dropped my shoulders perpendicular to my target. So, if I am aiming at a target 10 boards right of where i'm standing, my shoulders are lined up to my target and not the foul line. I've had mixed results as I have changed to this strategy but am starting to hit my mark more consistently.

[tccstudent]

This post was inspired by Hammer's thread about aiming your swing.

As I've been working on my release staying behind the ball consistently, I've noticed when I'm bowling well I can get a TON more revs. In practice I'm noticing more of an arc to my shots, rather than just bowling straight and letting the ball hook in. Basically allowing me to play further and further inside.

I had a coach early on tell me that my shoulders should be square/parallel to the foul line at the release, however this seems impossible if I'm aiming at a target 10 - 15 boards to the right of where I'm lined up. Guess I'm just trying to figure out if he was just saying that as I was just starting out, or if I'm misunderstanding something here.

Its really not impossible its more about your focus point. Its kinda like turning a motorcycle you go where you are looking. Someone else can explain it better. Plus I havent seen myself on video in a long time so I am not sure what I am actually doing compared to what I feel like i am doing.

[J Anderson]

This post was inspired by Hammer's thread about aiming your swing.

As I've been working on my release staying behind the ball consistently, I've noticed when I'm bowling well I can get a TON more revs. In practice I'm noticing more of an arc to my shots, rather than just bowling straight and letting the ball hook in. Basically allowing me to play further and further inside.

I had a coach early on tell me that my shoulders should be square/parallel to the foul line at the release, however this seems impossible if I'm aiming at a target 10 - 15 boards to the right of where I'm lined up. Guess I'm just trying to figure out if he was just saying that as I was just starting out, or if I'm misunderstanding something here.

You are correct. When starting out, most people are taught to throw parallel to the lane and the shoulders should be parallel to the foul line. As you increase the amount that you hook the ball your line has to start angling away from the pocket to keep the ball from hitting on the wrong side of the headpin. Your shoulders now need to be perpendicular to the initial ball path, not the lane. It's not a big angle relative to the foul line; if you were to lay the ball down on the last board and send it out to the one board at 30' the angle is only about 6º.

[RobLV1]

Very informative thread. As bowlers begin to hook the ball, the whole shoulders square to the foul line thing goes out the window. Beginning bowlers are taught the traditional style of playing "down the boards" where the ball path parallels the boards on the lane. When they begin to hook the ball more, they need to learn to align the shoulders and hips with the intended path of the ball. This is called playing "out." The only thing that you have to be careful of is making sure that your feet still move parallel to the boards and not toward your intended line. In other words, your slide foot should end up on the same board where it started regardless of the intended line of your ball. If your slide does not end up exactly where it started, it's O.K. as long as the amount of "drift" is not more than two or three boards, and is the same each time.

[zdawg]

Ok thanks for the replies everyone, this is extremely helpful as I'm working on taking the next "step".


Very informative thread. As bowlers begin to hook the ball, the whole shoulders square to the foul line thing goes out the window. Beginning bowlers are taught the traditional style of playing "down the boards" where the ball path parallels the boards on the lane. When they begin to hook the ball more, they need to learn to align the shoulders and hips with the intended path of the ball. This is called playing "out." The only thing that you have to be careful of is making sure that your feet still move parallel to the boards and not toward your intended line. In other words, your slide foot should end up on the same board where it started regardless of the intended line of your ball. If your slide does not end up exactly where it started, it's O.K. as long as the amount of "drift" is not more than two or three boards, and is the same each time.

Fortunately that's one thing I'm especially good at as it was stressed to me at the very beginning to walk in a straight line as opposed to walking towards the target, so I'm rarely more than 1 board off from where I line up and where I finish - in the cases I do drift too much I can tell before I even look down at my foot because I miss my target by quite a bit.

[Mudpuppy]

Did someone say motorcycle? lol

I am totally unconventional. My eyes gloss over with all the talk about board numbers and coaches, etc. Closest thing I ever had to a coach was an old drunk who I'd buy beers and he gave me tips - some worked some didn't.

My biggest thing I focus on is repeatability. I pay special attention to where I line up in the x and y axis before my approach and then I watch my mark and I focus on my release. That's it. If it works great. If it doesn't I adjust the next time I throw an infinite amount - was it better? Yes. Keep doing it. Was it worse? Adjust again. Was it a little better? Yes, move a little more in that direction. Was none of it any good? Go drink a shot and another beer.

To me all this talk is way overthinking it.

[Hammer]

Bowling alleys are narrow so when you open your hips and shoulders to hit your target arrow while walking straight it isn't that much that you open to do this. Pros have an easier time of walking straight and hitting their target right when playing deep because they have an inside out swing to get their ball there. Look at the YOUTUBE video Analysis of Modern 10-pin Bowling Swing and Release and you can see that when their backswing ends their forward swing comes to the inside like it is going to hit their balance leg but of course it doesn't. This inside out swing makes the ball go to the right with power and good revs

[Mike White]

Very informative thread. As bowlers begin to hook the ball, the whole shoulders square to the foul line thing goes out the window. Beginning bowlers are taught the traditional style of playing "down the boards" where the ball path parallels the boards on the lane. When they begin to hook the ball more, they need to learn to align the shoulders and hips with the intended path of the ball. This is called playing "out." The only thing that you have to be careful of is making sure that your feet still move parallel to the boards and not toward your intended line. In other words, your slide foot should end up on the same board where it started regardless of the intended line of your ball. If your slide does not end up exactly where it started, it's O.K. as long as the amount of "drift" is not more than two or three boards, and is the same each time.

Sorry people I didn't see this little nugget of crap earlier.

The bold section is pure bogus.

[Doghouse Reilly]

Sorry people I didn't see this little nugget of crap earlier.

The bold section is pure bogus.

"nugget of crap" there's a real intelligent response! But considering how a lot of the posts on here have been I guess it's par for the course.

Like I said before why don't you just give a alternate opinion or if you disagree with someones view just say that and explain why.

I'm sure the customer's in your pro-shop would love to see how you act with those that have a different view than you do.

Try responding in a more professional manner and others on here may have more respect for your opinions.

For such a self professed expert in all thing's related to bowling it should be easy for you not to be such a tool in your responses.

Then again it might not not be easy for you.

[bowl1820]

The only thing that you have to be careful of is making sure that your feet still move parallel to the boards and not toward your intended line. In other words, your slide foot should end up on the same board where it started regardless of the intended line of your ball.


The bold section is pure bogus.


I'm guessing you are going to say:

It should be "Walk Parallel to Intended Path to the intended path of the ball" instead of "walking parallel to the boards".

Walking parallel to the intended path is a valid method, but so is walking parallel to the boards. Both methods are referred to in the Bronze manual and have their use.

Rob did leave off part of it though that the shoulders should be open to the intended target when walking parallel to the boards.

[Mike White]

I'm guessing you are going to say:

It should be "Walk Parallel to Intended Path to the intended path of the ball" instead of "walking parallel to the boards".

Walking parallel to the intended path is a valid method, but so is walking parallel to the boards. Both methods are referred to in the Bronze manual and have their use.

Rob did leave off part of it though that the shoulders should be open to the intended target when walking parallel to the boards.

If the Bronze manual says it's ok to walk parallel to the boards while playing a left to right shot, the manual needs some work.

It would require a loopy arm swing that would be next to impossible to repeat.

Imagine a top down view of the bowler, and the arm swing. Walking parallel to the intended path keeps the arm swing on the intended path the entire way.

Walking parallel to the boards would be walking diagonal to the intended path.

There is no good way to describe the route the ball would have to take to end up on the intended path.

If you start the ball towards your target, then move your shoulder left of that path, the ball is not going to return towards that target.


One thing I do see quite often (because people need to walk around the ball return), is to walk left until the power step, then while the ball is at the peak of the backswing (very little forward momentum), they change directions, push off the power step, and slide parallel to the intended target. Again, not easy to repeat, but well within the tolerances of today's conditions.

If that happens to return to the same board they started on, it's coincidence.

[Mike White]

"nugget of crap" there's a real intelligent response! But considering how a lot of the posts on here have been I guess it's par for the course.

Like I said before why don't you just give a alternate opinion or if you disagree with someones view just say that and explain why.

I'm sure the customer's in your pro-shop would love to see how you act with those that have a different view than you do.

Try responding in a more professional manner and others on here may have more respect for your opinions.

For such a self professed expert in all thing's related to bowling it should be easy for you not to be such a tool in your responses.

Then again it might not not be easy for you.


When I did give an alternate opinion, I was told by Rob that I was just confusing people.

Odd how facts can confuse people, but his wrong info supposedly made things clear.

My customers don't get preached to. If they ask a question, I will go into as much detail as they desire.

I never referred to my self as an expert, however I do have a lot of experience, and I pay attention to the details.

In my span of 40+ yrs of bowling, (20 not active) I've competed with and against many top level bowlers, from many generations.

Back in the 80's I was hooking the ball as much as anyone you see on TV now, just at a slower speed than todays bowlers.

Since I was playing a game that was different than those who had well documented achievements, there were plenty of discussions about how I should conform.

They did most of their top level bowling during the days of lacquer lane finishes where the oil (applied once a week) actually absorbed into the finish, and didn't move around.

Their game was all about accuracy because there was very little friction between a rubber ball, and a lacquer finish compared to the modern ball / synthetic lane.

In the 80's, there were plastic balls, and water based urethane lane finishes. The ball was capable of hooking more than rubber on lacquer.

After explaining why I did things different than they did, then executing the shot to demonstrate the result of those differences they no longer suggested I conform.

I learned the fundamentals from those bowlers, and was given the freedom to use a different technique.

A number of local HOF bowlers agreed if they were younger and on the conditions of the 80's, they would try to throw the ball the same as I did.

[Doghouse Reilly]

When I did give an alternate opinion, I was told by Rob that I was just confusing people.

Odd how facts can confuse people, but his wrong info supposedly made things clear.

My customers don't get preached to. If they ask a question, I will go into as much detail as they desire.

I never referred to my self as an expert, however I do have a lot of experience, and I pay attention to the details.

In my span of 40+ yrs of bowling, (20 not active) I've competed with and against many top level bowlers, from many generations.

Back in the 80's I was hooking the ball as much as anyone you see on TV now, just at a slower speed than todays bowlers.

Since I was playing a game that was different than those who had well documented achievements, there were plenty of discussions about how I should conform.

They did most of their top level bowling during the days of lacquer lane finishes where the oil (applied once a week) actually absorbed into the finish, and didn't move around.

Their game was all about accuracy because there was very little friction between a rubber ball, and a lacquer finish compared to the modern ball / synthetic lane.

In the 80's, there were plastic balls, and water based urethane lane finishes. The ball was capable of hooking more than rubber on lacquer.

After explaining why I did things different than they did, then executing the shot to demonstrate the result of those differences they no longer suggested I conform.

I learned the fundamentals from those bowlers, and was given the freedom to use a different technique.

A number of local HOF bowlers agreed if they were younger and on the conditions of the 80's, they would try to throw the ball the same as I did.

Okay, you have listed your experience and you might make some valid points in your posts. But that's beside point, it's the way you state you opinion that's based on that experience.

I'm sure your customers don't get preached to, a shop wouldn't last long if the operator told a customer what he thought was "Crap, bogus" etc. You show them some respect.

The point is why can't you show people that make a post here that same respect and not say things like their opinion is crap.

Your opinions and information would carry more weight if they weren't overshadowed by the animosity you show in your posts.

[Hammer]

To Mike White: Look at the YOUTUBE video Analysis of modern 10-pin bowling swing and release. The pros in that video walk parallel to the boards but yet their ball goes to the right. What I notice is that the pros have a loopy swing. Their backswing comes straight back but on the way forward the ball seems to come toward their body a little plus their hand stays on the inside lower quadrant of the ball so when they reach the release area these two things make the ball end up going to the right. Some of these guys you can see slide parallel to the left gutter but the ball crosses board 20 and goes toward the right gutter. From your replies it seems like you are right and everyone else is wrong about the right technique. What I would tell everyone is to try both ways and see which one works for you.

We are all different and can get the job done different ways. Plus we need to have more respect in our replies to peoples opinions. The pros seem to be doing okay walking parallel to the boards and throwing right because they have the inside out release like in the video.

[Mike White]

To Mike White: Look at the YOUTUBE video Analysis of modern 10-pin bowling swing and release. The pros in that video walk parallel to the boards but yet their ball goes to the right. What I notice is that the pros have a loopy swing. Their backswing comes straight back but on the way forward the ball seems to come toward their body a little plus their hand stays on the inside lower quadrant of the ball so when they reach the release area these two things make the ball end up going to the right. Some of these guys you can see slide parallel to the left gutter but the ball crosses board 20 and goes toward the right gutter. From your replies it seems like you are right and everyone else is wrong about the right technique. What I would tell everyone is to try both ways and see which one works for you.

We are all different and can get the job done different ways. Plus we need to have more respect in our replies to peoples opinions. The pros seem to be doing okay walking parallel to the boards and throwing right because they have the inside out release like in the video.

In that video the only time you can see someone's complete walk is either from a side view which is difficult to see if it is parallel or not, and Mika's rear view when they were discussing Swing Planes.

In Mika's case he was walking left until the last step which was back to the right.

The two direction walk is common if you learned to play inside before the THS and had to walk around the ball return.

The key to a two direction walk is to change directions while the ball is at the peak of the back swing, since it has the least amount of momentum at that moment.

The shot of Brian Voss was the closest to walking along a path parallel to the ball path (i.e. left to right)

Sean Rash seems to be the only one walking left all the way, and somehow throwing the ball left to right.

At the 43 second mark of the video, you see Chris Barnes playing more of an outside line.

His left foot clearly moved to the right at least 4 boards between the last two (left foot steps)

In that video, there is more evidence that the pros don't walk parallel to the board, than evidence that they do.


What I would tell everyone is to try both ways and see which one works for you.

The only thing that you have to be careful of is making sure that your feet still move parallel to the boards and not toward your intended line.

I wasn't the one telling people there is only one way to do things.

Is there any evidence of someone walking parallel to the boards, and playing a left to right shot?

Probably, but it isn't what is commonly done.

[sprocket]

The biggest thing is understating that the angle is never that big. If I had a dollar for every bowler I saw who lined up playing inside like the angle was huge, I would have a lot of dollars.

What happens when you set up with too much angle is that you will drift right and miss right. The ball will then over hook and you will be thinking "Oh, the lanes hook so much", when really you have plenty of room to adjust if you weren't drifting three miles to the right.

Another problem can be walking fairly straight but opening up too far. This can result in the ball going behind the back and then looping around at release. The ball loses projection, accuracy is all over the place and again the lanes look like they are hooking more than they actually are.

[sprocket]

About the parallel to the boards thing:

When playing inside and still walking parallel to the boards a bowler is actually drifting LEFT relative to their target line. This is an advanced technique most pros use because they sometimes have to play so far left that the ball return would get in the way if they walked parallel to their target line. Hell, many of them drift left ALWAYS. They NEVER walk parallel to their target line.

The question is: Which is easier for the average bowler and what is really necessary? Well if you are going to play really deep you had better learn how to walk parallel to the boards which is drifting left of the target line in many cases. If you are never or almost never going to play that deep then I see NO BENEFIT to ever doing anything other than walking parallel to the intended target line.