Question for the ARSEnal experts out there!

[Aslan]

So I'm trying to learn everything I can about balls and arsenals and such. I'm still not confident that I need an arsenal at my level, but I still want to understand the basics.

So I have a scenario type question for you experts…and there is NO wrong answer. Well, unless you purposely try to give a wrong answer…there is no wrong answer.

Lets say you're building an arsenal from scratch and have the following 2 balls. I'm just listing specs, the ball manufacturer and product is of no consequence. You're just basing your decision on the numbers.

You have in your bag:
Ball A: RG: 2.53, diff. 0.045, 1500 abralon, polished hybrid, symmetric core
Ball B: RG: 2.48, diff. 0.045, 2000 abralon matte finished solid coverstock, symmetric core

You acquire 2 balls with equal specifications and can have them drilled surfaced however you want. The specs are:
Balls C & D: RG: 2.5, diff. 0.052, 2000 abralon, pearl coverstock, assymetric cores

Part I of the questions:
How would you drill and finish them to give yourself 2 different balls to fill holes in your arsenal?

The alley pro shop is offering a GREAT deal on another ball with the following specs:
Ball E: RG: 2.539, diff. 0.040, 2500 abralon, hybrid coverstock, symmetric core

Part II question:
Would you buy Ball E? Why/Why not? If so, how would you drill/finish it? Where does it fit in the above arsenal?

[Cart3r27]

I am not a math major or a rocket science but I can tell you, you are over thinking this just a bit lol - From your original post there are many variables that are not applied here for example, not the only one, what type of bowler are you (Cranker, Stroker, 2 hand, etc..) what is your ball speed/rev rate. - then with that answered it will be more easy to figure out your general layouts for the specs you provided on those balls.

Make sense? lol

For myself I have (the way you described above)
1 - RG: 2.50 - diff. .048, 500 abralon (royal compound finish)
2 - RG: 2.48 - diff. .049, 500 abralon (powerhouse finish)

my ball 1 snaps at the end and is very strong, drilled Pin up CG kicked out - while similar specs ball 2 is very smooth at the end, drilled Pin up CG inline.

The numbers do mean alot, if your a pro driller, whom will be able to set the ball up for what you want.

[MICHAEL]

Aslan,,, you mention that at this point not ready for an arsenal yet... How many years have you been bowling league? I thought you have been bowling for many years... ?? You have had lesions form many different teachers....

When,,, WHEN ASLAN will you be READY!! I also though you had a closet full of bowling balls... how many balls do you have! Are you a closet bowler?? LOL

Aslan,,, maybe marbles would be a sport more suited.... LOL

I admire your, what's the word,,,, struggle, but at some point maybe you need to Just Find Yourself A Woman!

Do you want my help again..... I can resurrect the thread and continue our quest!! I still say there is a lonely female coach out there just looking for a guy just like you, that she can mold into a very average bowler!!!

What-a-you-say......

[dnhoffman]

I also though you had a closet full of bowling balls... how many balls do you have! Are you a closet bowler?? LOL


I have no idea what this thread is about, but this quote reminded me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSYs4z0J7vw

[Mudpuppy]

It's simple - find a good pro shop guy (or girl but in your case Aslan probably a dude is better since you repel chicks) and he will tell you what you need / should do. It's your choice to listen.

[Aslan]

Damn...I started this thinking it would provide hours of entertainment and all it got was poked at, the ramblings of a crazy old man, flaming from a troll, and Mudpuppy's minimalism.

Dang it. Maybe it needed "poo" in the title?

[MICHAEL]

Damn...I started this thinking it would provide hours of entertainment and all it got was poked at, the ramblings of a crazy old man, flaming from a troll, and Mudpuppy's minimalism.

Dang it. Maybe it needed "poo" in the title?

Crazy old man!! Old in years, but not in physical prowess, or good looks.... I would Own you on a bowling lane!

I might ride my bike out this summer just to show you "Who You Daddy is", on the bowling lanes! 1800 miles appx, I could do that in 2 days!! But Might just make it a 3 day ride!

Crazy Old man,,, better then a almost 40 year old that writes like a 13 year old, and womanless! LOL

I use to like you Asia,,,, but now your on my questionable list, close to being removed from my list of threads.

[J Anderson]

Damn...I started this thinking it would provide hours of entertainment and all it got was poked at, the ramblings of a crazy old man, flaming from a troll, and Mudpuppy's minimalism.

Dang it. Maybe it needed "poo" in the title?

Sorry but I'm not an expert on arsenals, whether they be of bowling balls or firearms.

I don't think the treads needs any "poo". What I have noticed is that people are much more likely to respond if specific balls are named instead of hypothetical balls described by RG and coverstock. In other words tell us what balls you have and which ones you're actually thinking about. Then we'll tell you that we need more information about how you bowl, what the lanes are like, ect. and then tell you that you need to get our favorite ball because it goes long and snaps really hard.

[Aslan]

and then tell you that you need to get our favorite ball because it goes long and snaps really hard.

See…JAnderson is wise past his years…THAT is the exact reason I didn't use actual balls…I figured using specs would allow everyone to talk about specifics of ball reactions and that type of thing rather than "you should get a DV8 Marauder and a DV8 Hellmonster…because thats what I throw and DV8 ROCKS!!

Failed.

[RobLV1]

Sorry to ruin your fun, but I kind of saw where you were going with this. As you know, I take the numbers, particularly the rg, of bowling balls very seriously. The problem is with the cover material itself. Cover materials are rated using three different tests: the coefficient of friction (COF) in the oil, the COF on the dry part of the lane, and the materials ability to absorb oil. Unfortunately, the manufacturers don't publish the results of these three tests when they advertise their bowling balls. Ebonite did actually assign numbers for oil absorption and put them on their bowling balls for a while, but they never really emphasized them, and they finally went away. They probably figured out that bowlers were starting to learn enough about bowling balls to figure out the balls with higher absorption rates would probably not last as long as balls with lower absorption rates.

Anyway, because these numbers aren't published, it's really hard to discuss bowling balls without names or brands. Many manufacturers have reputations for producing balls with specific kinds of reaction characteristics. The most blatant differences in terms of reputations are exemplified by Storm and Brunswick. Storm has a reputation for producing balls with long and snappy reactions, while Brunswick's reputation is for balls that are very "rolley" in terms of reaction. I have a hunch the Brunswick balls have a higher COF in oil, while Storm balls have a higher COF on dry. From my own observations, the reputations are well deserved and have their uses, depending on a bowlers style. Personally I love Storm balls on a house shot where my goal is to avoid too much friction too soon, and equally love Brunswick balls on tournament shots where I'm looking for friction on the flatter patterns. Again, this is dependent on a bowlers style and preferences. My best friend is a high rev, high speed player who loves to play deep, even on a house shot with a ton of oil in the middle. He loves Brunswick balls and uses them exclusively because they really compliment his game.

The other issue in terms of only looking at the numbers on bowling balls is the whole brand blind loyalty issue. I see this a whole lot with DV8 affectionados who have embraced the whole targeted marketing for the younger market wholeheartedly. When a bowler is obsessively brand loyal, the only balls that he is going to recommend will be those from his chosen brand whether or not they would work for you.

[MICHAEL]

The bottom line,,, RG, equipment, drilling, or rather the bowler himself/herself!! Adjustments can be made! Rob I know your a golfer, as am I! Or should I say I play the game, score in the 80s,, high and low! Jason here in Kansas city can pick up anyone's ball and throw a 200 plus game! As long as he can get his fingers in a ball. I have a huge span, his thumb and fingers are MUCH smaller then mine! But he can make my ball do remarkable things!

A PERFECT EXAMPLE of how it all boils down to the individual might be this:

Brought up on the “wrong side of the tracks” (as they say in America) there could hardly ever have been anyone less likely to make the grade as a professional golfer.
The young Trevino took to hanging around driving ranges and golf courses at an early age, in order to pick up a few dollars by doing odd jobs, and by caddying for the wealthy members.
It wasn’t too long before he had a golf club in his hands, and one of the most unlikely success stories that the golf world has ever seen had began.
Lee Trevino was born in Dallas, Texas in 1939, the son of immigrant Mexican workers to the United States.

He soon got so good at the sport that no one would play him for money, so young Lee took to playing his tee shots with an old Coke bottle wrapped in insulating tape to stop it from shattering. By this ploy he was able to manage to get other players to challenge him. Little did they know that even using his bottle he could hit the golf ball further than most scratch golfers!

I hate to say this Aslan: But you either have the gift, or NOT! All the Rg's, and coaches in the world will not make a big difference.
You have been bowling for almost 20 years.... Iceman started at 62 1/2... No coaches, didn't know a thing about RGs, two 300s in less then 6 months.

Also Rob, my first 300 back in april, after I shot that 300 second game, my third game I was DRUNK!! I bowled the 300 with an IQ pearl storm ball butterscotch.... all my friends kept buying me snoops, butterscotch flavored! Hey I don't drink at all, and after about 6, I didn't even know how I was, or where I was!!

NOW my last 300 a few months ago, I stayed in the focus! I used ONE BALL the Virtual Gravity nano! 300, 216, made some adjustments, and 264, for a 780. Almost a double ring day at 65!! and only 3 years of league bowling

NO ball change, on a 10 person league, so lots of oil movement.

I honestly think to bowl high scores, you first have to have the gift, then FOCUS and make adjustments! I did on my last 300 and 780!

My main problem is FOCUS,,,FOCUS,,,,, and FOCUS!!!

I have GREAT DAYS, and I have Average days, sometimes I have Aslan days!!! It's just life!!

[tccstudent]

I honestly think to bowl high scores, you first have to have the gift, then FOCUS and make adjustments! I did on my last 300 and 780!



I will not disagree that having the gift will help greatly. but I believe that practice makes perfect someone with "the gift" may not need much practice while others can and do develop their game through years of practice.

[RobLV1]

A very wise Chinese philosopher once said, "Man who chooses to knock his head against a stone wall, chooses to get a headache." I'm assuming that this also applies to a wall made of Ice(man). I think I'll pass!

[MICHAEL]

I will not disagree that having the gift will help greatly. but I believe that practice makes perfect someone with "the gift" may not need much practice while others can and do develop their game through years of practice.

If practice, and coaching make you a skilled 200 plus bowler,,, what happen to Aslan??? I think I know his problem!
He needs a Woman, because he don't have THE GIFT! I on the other hand Iceman must have the gift, but found out WAY TO LATE at 63!! (where could I be today, if I would have started bowling back in my 50s!!!))

I do agree practice may be even more important then coaching! Look at Jason Belmonte,,, He started out throwing the ball when it was almost as big as him,,,, HE DEVELOPED his style, and with his natural gift, he is one of the top bowlers in the world! Coaching had little to do with his style, 99 percent of bowlers in his town, bowled with one hand! His partent have said, they just let him do his thing! Good bowlers are Born, not developed!

Practice will help anyone, I use to think coaching helps, but then look at Aslan?? Prime of his life, many years of bowling under his belt,,,, but,,,, BUT,,,,,, still treading water, has not learned how to swim! Bless his heart! (:)

[MICHAEL]

A very wise Chinese philosopher once said, "Man who chooses to knock his head against a stone wall, chooses to get a headache." I'm assuming that this also applies to a wall made of Ice(man). I think I'll pass!

A very wise half brother to the Chinese philosopher you mentioned above also said: "Never swim up stream, especially when the water is only one foot deep" "Its simpler, many times to just walk"

Or my lawyer friend, Sue Man Sue! He once said, "It is better to bowl with a bowling ball, then to use a marble, no matter how big the marble is, its still just a marble"


So Rob,,, your a passer!! LOL,,,,, Just remember Rob, I am old, like yourself, it hard to teach an old Iron Worker new tricks, but I do read your material and appreciate your thoughts, and in reality have enjoyed reading your comments! KEEP IT UP!!!

Even Ice Walls allow thoughts, and ideas to penetrate, that's a cold reality.... Iceman

[J Anderson]

Even Ice Walls allow thoughts, and ideas to penetrate, that's a cold reality.... Iceman

It's just that everything moves slower in the cold!

[Cart3r27]

:confused:@ Michael - You confuse me sir lol. Every time i see you post it could go from unicorns to president Obama and next thing I know your talking back about the thread your on. Plus all the ,,,,,, confuse the hell out of me lmao

Just needed to get that off my chest, idk if I am the only one lmao

[Aslan]

:confused:@ Michael - You confuse me sir lol. Every time i see you post it could go from unicorns to president Obama and next thing I know your talking back about the thread your on. Plus all the ,,,,,, confuse the hell out of me lmao

Just needed to get that off my chest, idk if I am the only one lmao

You're not alone. Iceman's thought process is a lot like Wonderland (from Alice in Wonderland). Sometimes it's pretty straight forward….and then sometimes it just goes off into fantasyland. But, if it weren't for him, I'd be responsible for 100% of the entertainment…and nobody wants that.

[Aslan]

I see what you mean Rob, but it seems to me like the only way you can compare bowling balls fairly is to take the brands away. Like you referenced, I'd say 95% of bowlers only buy a ball because of it's brand or name or color or smell. There's no way to convince a DV8 or Motiv fan to buy Columbia or Brunswick. Does that mean Motiv or DV8 are better? Not only are they "not" better….many times those brands are made by the same company. And sometimes, it's SO silly…because people will buy a ball simply because they have a Hammer 3-ball roller and a Hammer towel and therefore only buy Hammer so it all matches. Stupid.

Thats why I went for pure numbers. I don't look at ball brands AT ALL when I'm choosing my next ball. My decision is based on either the videos I've watched (not a great way to choose) or price (definitely not a great way to choose). I just thought numbers would be more fair and non-prejidicial.

I really think it's a shame. I understand it, and it's been like this since Hammer burst on the scene back in the 80s…but it's just too bad that brands like Ebonite, Columbia, and Brunswick don't get a better fan base. Columbia and Brunswick had been making high quality bowling equipment for so long. But, it happens.

[MICHAEL]

:confused:@ Michael - You confuse me sir lol. Every time i see you post it could go from unicorns to president Obama and next thing I know your talking back about the thread your on. Plus all the ,,,,,, confuse the hell out of me lmao

Just needed to get that off my chest, idk if I am the only one lmao

It might be confusing to a mere mortal! Remember, I am a super Hero! I defend the helpless, the widows, and orphans that have no one else to defend them! I always have a cryptic message hidden within my threads! Codes so to speak!!

Read some of my messages backwards, for their true meaning! ! Walrus The am I (did you get that one??)

Cart3r27, I just read some of my messages backwards, and I am confused too!

The best thread I have posted, along with Jason24,,, is me vs Michael! It is accepted in many universities as a 3 credit hour class! Read some of that, and then tell me you don't get the meaning!

Their are cliff notes you can get at your local book store on,,,, or just send my $24.33, and I will send you my Iceman decoder device!! Then you too will know what I am really saying along with top officials for the US government! Yes,,, although bowling is my cover, keeping America Safe is my real quest!

WAIT,,, if you act NOW, you can get TWO,,, not one, but TWO decoder rings for 48.66!!!
Act now Cart3r27, THIS IS A LIMITED time offer!

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/aaasecretdecoderring_zpsbfc8f394.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/aaasecretdecoderring_zpsbfc8f394.jpg.html)

[Mudpuppy]

Is all this garbage information about cover stock and rg going to make you bowl better? NO. Opposite actually. Your mind will be so cluttered with useless data you won't bowl good, that hot chick that wanted to see you stroke another strike won't notice you and your Dad will get punched in the stomach for a can of beans - don't let your Dad get...........................

Let the pro shop guy handle it - just explain what you want to accomplish and his superior mind power will handle it. Then you can focus on bowling.

[bowl1820]

pro shop guy handle it - just explain what you want to accomplish and his superior mind power will handle it. Then you can focus on bowling.

Yep, Just go in and say the standard "I want it to go long and snap hard" or "I want a ball that hooks a lot" (Which for the majority of customers really means they want to see a lot of backend reaction not hook. In other words go long and snap hard.)

[Aslan]

Is all this garbage information about cover stock and rg going to make you bowl better? NO. Opposite actually. Your mind will be so cluttered with useless data you won't bowl good, that hot chick that wanted to see you stroke another strike won't notice you and your Dad will get punched in the stomach for a can of beans - don't let your Dad get...........................

Let the pro shop guy handle it - just explain what you want to accomplish and his superior mind power will handle it. Then you can focus on bowling.

I don't know if the great Rob M. would agree that bowlers should just disregard all this "garbage information". Especially...when the ARSEnal players out there insist that they need 4-9 balls to bowl in their couple house leagues. According to Rob's article "Know Your Arsenal" (or something like that) a bowler should know his/her bowling ball's coverstocks and RG, etc... THAT is what allows them to make an EDUCATED decision to go to their bag and choose a better option.

Unfortunately, I'd say less than 15% of ARSEnal bowlers actually DO that. Most of them just say, "I missed twice with the DV8 Hellmonster so I'm gonna use the IQ Tour Pearl." "Nope, that didn't work, I better take out the Radical Reaxx." "Nope, that didn't work...lets try Brunswick GatorFart." "Strike!! YES...see, THATs why you have an ARSEnal....I shoulda used that ball from the beginning!"

Then by the middle of the next game said player is back in his bag pulling out the DV8 Hellmonster he started with because he isn't striking anymore. It's MADNESS!!

And how does your local pro shop guy qualify as a bowling ball expert? I mean, my bowling ball driller is Mike White, the bowling ball guru to the Stars...so I'm safe. But if your bowling ball driller is "Big Joe" who retired from GM and bought got himself a good deal on some pro shop supplies...I don't know if that automatically qualifies them to "bowling ball expert" status.

[Aslan]

Yep, Just go in and say the standard "I want it to go long and snap hard" or "I want a ball that hooks a lot" (Which for the majority of customers really means they want to see a lot of backend reaction not hook. In other words go long and snap hard.)

Witnessed that last night at Mike's shop. Mike asked the guy what he wanted and I almost started to giggle as the guy responded, "I just want it to go long and snap hard." I almost giggled because before he even answered I was thinking, "I bet dollars to donuts this guy says he just wants it to go long and snap hard..."

[Mudpuppy]

I guess I stand corrected. I am going to quit my job and read up on this arsenal business until I have it memorized and I know every single facet of how a bowling ball is made and how it works. Then I am going to get a sharpee and mark the boards on the approach so I know exactly what boards I am on. I can video it in 4K HD video and hire one of the best coaches. Then I will do an FBI background check on the pro shop guy before even talking to him about buying a suitable ball towel. Why take chances? I'm sure it will make me a .00000000000000000000000000000000000000001% extra bowler and add 1/3 a pin to my average.

Honestly Asian, as Iceman would say, it's a big scam - kind of like oil manufacturer's saying you need to change your oil every 3,000 miles. A typical house league bowler doesn't need 4-9 ball arsenal, coaches and extensive knowledge of the micro structure of the bowling balls. I am not saying that if someone, a house league bowler, finds bowling ball rgs and cover stocks interesting they shouldn't learn about it but I am saying learning what you have and how to use it goes a lot further than yanking a shot and switching balls 50x in 1 game. But you can also rely on a reputable pro shop owner to guide you in the right direction without learning all this rg and coverstock information. If they are decent, they watch you bowl, know your shot, know your goals, etc. then you really don't need to spend time trying to read and learn all this information that ultimately just becomes a distraction to your game.

[bowl1820]

Honestly Asian, as Iceman would say, it's a big scam - kind of like oil manufacturer's saying you need to change your oil every 3,000 miles. A typical house league bowler doesn't need 4-9 ball arsenal, coaches and extensive knowledge of the micro structure of the bowling balls.
I am not saying that if someone, a house league bowler, finds bowling ball rgs and cover stocks interesting they shouldn't learn about it but I am saying learning what you have and how to use it goes a lot further than yanking a shot and switching balls 50x in 1 game.

Wow someone telling Aslan you don't need a 4-9 ball arsenal and don't need to switch balls 50x in 1 game. Talk about carrying coal to Newcastle!

[tccstudent]

Talk about carrying coal to Newcastle!

I dont get this reference

[bowl1820]

I dont get this reference

Newcastle is a city in England that is known for it's production and sale of coal. Making carrying coal to Newcastle pointless.

So "Carrying coal to Newcastle" is phrase describing a redundant, pointless action.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coals_to_Newcastle

So Since Aslan has stated many times about typical league bowlers not needing 4-9 ball arsenals and switching balls through out the night.

Having someone tell him that was like "Carrying coal to Newcastle" a redundant, pointless action.

It was "Like preaching to the choir"

You can google that one.;)

[tccstudent]

I have never heard that phrase before.

I generally carry 6 balls with me to league and 8 to a tournament.
Over the course of a league night I might throw 4
Two as a strike ball one as a spare and the forth I have a special ball for if I leave certain splits like 6-7-10, or big 4 or greek church. For those shots I want something that is gonna give me a wrinkle once it gets down to the pin deck.

[Aslan]

Wow someone telling Aslan you don't need a 4-9 ball arsenal and don't need to switch balls 50x in 1 game. Talk about carrying coal to Newcastle!

YES!!

I didn't get the reference either but I'm now going to use it extensively.

Mudpup...I don't think it's so much a "conspiracy" I just think that many bowlers like to "collect" things. Balls are shiny and colorful and fun...and many, many bowlers think that if you find that "perfect" one...it's 300-a-palooza time!!! Where as my belief is...while there CERTAINLY is a need for an arsenal at higher levels...most house bowlers generally don't know enough about balls and their technology to put an arsenal to use properly. Thats why you see bowlers with giant roller bags going back and forth to the bag swapping out balls multiple times in a seemingly random fashion. They don't know what they are doing wrong....nor what the ball does that will help it...so they're just flipping the proverbial coin.

Many will SWEAR they know why they are making a ball change...they'll SWEAR they know....but the conversation generally goes:

"Whyd you switch balls?"
"That one wasn't working."
"What was or wasn't it doing?"
"I don't know. It just wasn't matching up."
"Why do you think that other one will?"
"Ummm...I don't know. It's worth a try."
"Whats the RG difference between the 2?"
"What? The center of gravity?"
"No. Thats the CG. Whats the RG?"
"I don't know. It's probably stamped somewhere on the ball. I think it might be part of that USBC number."

[dpatrickv]

That last part bothers me. As much as you think you need to know, not everybody is going to know nor do they need to know those kinds of specifics. All they need to know if how their specific ball, with that specific drilling will roll on that lane condition. Not everybody is Chris Barnes, and frankly I will bet that there is a number of PBA pros who couldn't get into RG and roll specifics on why they changed, but they know exactly what that ball is supposed to do on that lane condition. How do they know? They know because they practice with it and they throw it on a weekly/daily basis.

You seem to think that you must know all these specifics to be warrant a ball change. I will say BS, all one needs to know is what ball will work better on that lane condition. You over-complicate and overthink just about everything.

[Ptnomore]

I am a THS bowler. I typically bowl two winter leagues and do 2-3 tourney's a year, nothing big, just local. I have 9 balls I think. Started a few years ago, with two. A C300 Freeze, and my old Plastic. Worked great, until the house surprised us one night with a ridiculously high volume pattern.

In comes the Wicked Siege. I was good for a year. Then, one night, machine was broke, lanes were toast. Plastic worked ok but I wanted something a bit harder hitting.

In comes the Storm Natural. Hated it, but waited another year to pick up a Hammer Nail. Now, I'm truly set. All bases are covered. No more surprises.

Then, boredom and some extra money in my pocket (never a good combination), I wanted something else to play with. Picked up a Taboo Jet black. LOVE that ball. Then wanted to try something to replace my 4 year old Freeze...got a Hammer Arson Hybrid. Awesome. Love it, very versatile ball. The Wicked Siege died so I recently replaced that with a Motiv Cruel Intent...Jury is still out on that ball. Haven't had a true proper oil condition to try it yet.

I typically bring 4 balls to league. Sometimes 6 if I get bored and decide to play with the coverstock on a ball or two during the week. I don't have time to practice through out the week, so I bring them occasionally to league night to see what they can do. Yep, I get picked on for it. Don't care. I'm an engineer, so my mind usually has a "method to the madnesss", or is trying to create one. If the team is losing badly, I'll give up in the 9th or 10th frame, or 1st and 2nd in the next game and start throwing other equipment, just to practice with it and have some fun. The teammates don't mind. Usually it doesn't hurt the scores enough, if at all.

I know a few guys that do the same thing. Just bring different stuff to play with from time to time. I enjoy it. I like figuring out what the equipment can do, trying different coverstock adjustments, etc. One of these days, it'll all click, and I'll have the extra time on my hands to really get out there and challenge myself at some bigger tourneys. Until then, I dream, and get picked on for bringing more than 2-3 balls to league night. I laugh right along with them. I'm the village idiot that can occasionally out bowl them, while they're bitching about the lack off oil, sticky approaches, slow ball return, cracked pins, bad racks dirty lanes, dirty back drops, etc, etc.

[bowl1820]

I agree that a THB (Typical House Bowler) doesn't need a "extensive knowledge of the micro structure of the bowling balls". But having a basic knowledge of them (learning what you have and how to use it) would allow you to make better choices in buying new ones and how they are used.

What are the basic's? coverstocks, surfaces, RG's and how they react are about it.

As for letting the pro shop owner guide you in the right direction, that's fine that's where most people start. Now as you progress, if you have more knowledge about the equipment etc. you and him can work better together and make better choices about what you want from him and the ball.

As for the THB not needing a coach, that all depends on what they want out of bowling and what they are happy with. If they just want to bowl and have a good time doing it, sure they don't need a coach. But if they are dissatisfied with how they bowl or want to move to a new level Then a coach would really help.

As for all the talk about RG's, Coaches etc. it's not because it's a big scam.

It's because people are here asking questions and wanting to learn and improve.

If someone asks what ball to get or what is the difference between this ball and that one. How should they be answered?

Just tell them go to pro shop and say "I want a ball that goes long and snaps hard" or say don't worry about the difference just go bowl.

If someone needs help with a physical part of the game, there's just so much that you can tell them online. At some point they need a pair of eyes and ears on the lanes with them. So you suggest they get a coach.

[Cart3r27]

Mind Blown!

[Aslan]

Mind Blown!

I know. I think I'm on the side or Rob M. and Bowl1820 in this discussion….mind MEGAblown!!

[Mudpuppy]

"You over-complicate and overthink just about everything." - quote of the year

Manufacturer's produce bowling balls. Do you think they want you to buy more or less? They spend millions on propaganda to get you interested to buy the latest and greatest to be that house bowler with 9 balls switching 50x a game.

And you WAY over simplify leaning on the pro shop owner - I do and I don't go in there with such generic rubbish. But I also don't go in there and talk RG or board numbers or anything of that nature. We talk intelligently based on his massive knowledge and my observations of my bowling. And it works. I get it - "I want a ball that goes long and snaps hard" - you don't need to say it 10 more times. Some people might say that - great. Some people might buy a bowling ball with a specific RG to use as a paperweight - again, great.

But I am just stating my opinion and what works for me and kind of playing devil's advocate. My wife is always telling me I take bowling WAY too serious - she has no idea. She throws some random house ball she found or took from a bowling alley like 20 years ago and wonders why she can't get much more than 100. Anytime I get a new ball there is an extensive approval process that she, the fun governor, has to review and approve or deny.

[Aslan]

Anytime I get a new ball there is an extensive approval process that she, the fun governor, has to review and approve or deny.

Maybe you'd have an easier time convincing her if you could explain the need for a ball with a higher RG and a pearl coverstock, a hole in your ARSEnal...rather than telling her you need another ball "cuz this one is green and matches my pants and if I throw it...it will go long and snap hard." I'm told women dig intelligence. Granted, I'm told lots of things that tend not to be true...so maybe just staring at the Hy Road and licking it and repeating, "yum grape!" will get ya further with women...who knows?

[MICHAEL]

Maybe you'd have an easier time convincing her if you could explain the need for a ball with a higher RG and a pearl coverstock, a hole in your ARSEnal...rather than telling her you need another ball "cuz this one is green and matches my pants and if I throw it...it will go long and snap hard." I'm told women dig intelligence. Granted, I'm told lots of things that tend not to be true...so maybe just staring at the Hy Road and licking it and repeating, "yum grape!" will get ya further with women...who knows?

Maybe just say: "Aslan said I need this ......... ball!", If she says, "who in the hell is Aslan,,,, simple say, "A womanless man that knows bowling!" :rolleyes:

Aslan,,, I can get back to work finding you a beautiful, Hot, female bowling coach if you like??? ITs up to you!!

I can check out some of the Asian Chicks looking for an American that can bowl very good!! They are even advertising on this site.

Hey Asian guy, you want a date,,, so sorry,,, Aslan guy,,, check out our website, you want a hot date??? Sign in and meet your bowling dream coach woman!

[Mudpuppy]

I tend to avoid female repellants when talking to females - i.e. Aslan.

If I broke into talk about RG and coverstocks she would have me committed.

[dpatrickv]

I agree, if I started to talk about RGs and coverstocks to my fun governor then she would also probably have me committed, or at least roll her eyes and walk away.

[Mudpuppy]

I agree, if I started to talk about RGs and coverstocks to my fun governor then she would also probably have me committed, or at least roll her eyes and walk away.

Good to hear I am not alone, lol

[vdubtx]

I agree, if I started to talk about RGs and coverstocks to my fun governor then she would also probably have me committed, or at least roll her eyes and walk away.

Would they roll early or late?

[Pauley]

Well done Vdubtx...

[dpatrickv]

Would they roll early or late?

They would probably go long and then snap.

[Aslan]

Knowledge is power kids. Knowing is half the battle.

You want to ignore the numbers and go on "feel"…whatever floats your boat.

[Mudpuppy]

Knowledge is power kids. Knowing is half the battle.

You want to ignore the numbers and go on "feel"…whatever floats your boat.

And there is also something called too much information especially when it is not correlated to anything of any value. I could insist my 4 year old MUST know quantum physics before going to kindergarten but would it really be beneficial, understood at even the most simple level or appropriate for the subject matter?

I'll fly out to Cali, give you 50 pins per game handicap and if I beat you then you pay my entire trip including flight, food, expenses, accommodations, etc. and then tell me how going on "feel" doesn't work. If you win I will fly Iceman in and we will personally find you a woman (viking, amazon or otherwise).

[MICHAEL]

And there is also something called too much information especially when it is not correlated to anything of any value. I could insist my 4 year old MUST know quantum physics before going to kindergarten but would it really be beneficial, understood at even the most simple level or appropriate for the subject matter?

I'll fly out to Cali, give you 50 pins per game handicap and if I beat you then you pay my entire trip including flight, food, expenses, accommodations, etc. and then tell me how going on "feel" doesn't work. If you win I will fly Iceman in and we will personally find you a woman (viking, amazon or otherwise).

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif.html)

Free trip to Ca, and I will WHAT??? The Free trip sounded ok, but I am not a miracle worker!!! Was that a round trip mudpuppy? I would rather bowl Aslan! Let him see the furry of THE ICEMAN on a bowling lane!! Might even give him my 3rd 300 in less then 8 months on a WOOD Lane of his choice!

[vdubtx]

Let him see the furry of THE ICEMAN on a bowling lane!!

I certainly wouldn't want to see the furry part of ICEMAN. Assuming that Aslan wouldn't want to either. LOL

[dpatrickv]

http://media.tumblr.com/b200cf11da03c5fb0a57ebc86e1f29fd/tumblr_inline_mrwhqtavEn1qz4rgp.gif

[Aslan]

And there is also something called too much information especially when it is not correlated to anything of any value. I could insist my 4 year old MUST know quantum physics before going to kindergarten but would it really be beneficial, understood at even the most simple level or appropriate for the subject matter?

I'll fly out to Cali, give you 50 pins per game handicap and if I beat you then you pay my entire trip including flight, food, expenses, accommodations, etc. and then tell me how going on "feel" doesn't work. If you win I will fly Iceman in and we will personally find you a woman (viking, amazon or otherwise).`

If it weren't for Iceman's posts....that would be the most insane thing I've read on this site.

SO let me get this straight;

Your premise is, that knowing about the physical characteristics of a bowling ball is not only unnecessary, but in some ways detrimental to your game.

And your proof of this is 2-fold:
1) Knowing 3 numbers and 3 things about coverstocks is on par with a 5-year old learning quantum physics.
2) You could NOT know things yet still defeat a beginning bowler.

And...your idea of a fair bet to prove this would be for you to fly across the country and despite a sizeable advantage in handicap...and attempt to defeat a beginning bowler scratch...and IF YOU WIN...said beginning bowler will pay you in excess of $2,000??

Wow!

How are you going to get the bowling balls to Cali? I mean, the plane requires a great deal of folks to know a great deal about Physics and numbers and air speeds....all things that under Mudpuppy logic are "too much information". Just fly the plane on "feel". I mean, a good mechanic will know if it's broke and a good pilot knows what buttons to press and all that. But what about at the counter when you put your bowling balls and suitcase on the square metally thing and it flashes random numbers followed by an "L" and a "B"? Are they going to expect you to understand the concept of weight and gravity? Can't they just lift it up and if it "feels" too heavy...it's too heavy. Why the need for all those numbers and gadgets??

Sorry Mr. Pup...but I never bet with money I don't have. And if I DID have $2000...and you actually had $2000...I still wouldn't just **** it away without being given a decent amount of handicap. Oh wait...handicap involves addition of numbers...so there goes that idea.

This conversation is now boring me.

[Mike White]

`

If it weren't for Iceman's posts....that would be the most insane thing I've read on this site.

SO let me get this straight;

Your premise is, that knowing about the physical characteristics of a bowling ball is not only unnecessary, but in some ways detrimental to your game.

And your proof of this is 2-fold:
1) Knowing 3 numbers and 3 things about coverstocks is on par with a 5-year old learning quantum physics.
2) You could NOT know things yet still defeat a beginning bowler.

And...your idea of a fair bet to prove this would be for you to fly across the country and despite a sizeable advantage in handicap...and attempt to defeat a beginning bowler scratch...and IF YOU WIN...said beginning bowler will pay you in excess of $2,000??

Wow!

How are you going to get the bowling balls to Cali? I mean, the plane requires a great deal of folks to know a great deal about Physics and numbers and air speeds....all things that under Mudpuppy logic are "too much information". Just fly the plane on "feel". I mean, a good mechanic will know if it's broke and a good pilot knows what buttons to press and all that. But what about at the counter when you put your bowling balls and suitcase on the square metally thing and it flashes random numbers followed by an "L" and a "B"? Are they going to expect you to understand the concept of weight and gravity? Can't they just lift it up and if it "feels" too heavy...it's too heavy. Why the need for all those numbers and gadgets??

Sorry Mr. Pup...but I never bet with money I don't have. And if I DID have $2000...and you actually had $2000...I still wouldn't just **** it away without being given a decent amount of handicap. Oh wait...handicap involves addition of numbers...so there goes that idea.

This conversation is now boring me.

Typical Aslan, focusing on the numbers when there is a Viking/Amazon/Other woman involved.

[vdubtx]

Typical Aslan, focusing on the numbers when there is a Viking/Amazon/Other woman involved.

Or even the furry ICEMAN!!

[dpatrickv]

Wait...50 pins of handicap is not a decent amount of handicap?

Also, his point is that one does not need to do the exact details and numbers of each ball in his aresenal. Only needs to know exactly how one reacts on a certain lane condition and the differences between them. As I have said before, I'll put money down that most PBA PROS couldnt tell you why they switch balls in terms of RG and such. Chris Barnes could, but CB is a freaking bowling encyclopedia.

Once again, you are overthinking everything.

[Mudpuppy]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif.html)

Free trip to Ca, and I will WHAT??? The Free trip sounded ok, but I am not a miracle worker!!! Was that a round trip mudpuppy? I would rather bowl Aslan! Let him see the furry of THE ICEMAN on a bowling lane!! Might even give him my 3rd 300 in less then 8 months on a WOOD Lane of his choice!

Of course roundtrip, lol. First class too - nothing but the best for Iceman.


`

If it weren't for Iceman's posts....that would be the most insane thing I've read on this site.

SO let me get this straight;

Your premise is, that knowing about the physical characteristics of a bowling ball is not only unnecessary, but in some ways detrimental to your game.

And your proof of this is 2-fold:
1) Knowing 3 numbers and 3 things about coverstocks is on par with a 5-year old learning quantum physics.
2) You could NOT know things yet still defeat a beginning bowler.

And...your idea of a fair bet to prove this would be for you to fly across the country and despite a sizeable advantage in handicap...and attempt to defeat a beginning bowler scratch...and IF YOU WIN...said beginning bowler will pay you in excess of $2,000??

Wow!

How are you going to get the bowling balls to Cali? I mean, the plane requires a great deal of folks to know a great deal about Physics and numbers and air speeds....all things that under Mudpuppy logic are "too much information". Just fly the plane on "feel". I mean, a good mechanic will know if it's broke and a good pilot knows what buttons to press and all that. But what about at the counter when you put your bowling balls and suitcase on the square metally thing and it flashes random numbers followed by an "L" and a "B"? Are they going to expect you to understand the concept of weight and gravity? Can't they just lift it up and if it "feels" too heavy...it's too heavy. Why the need for all those numbers and gadgets??

Sorry Mr. Pup...but I never bet with money I don't have. And if I DID have $2000...and you actually had $2000...I still wouldn't just **** it away without being given a decent amount of handicap. Oh wait...handicap involves addition of numbers...so there goes that idea.

This conversation is now boring me.

1. I said a 4 year old
2. I would only need 1 ball and seeing as my balls are like my children it would fly in 1st class with me
3. I actually have $2,000
4. You have a distinct advantage on your home lanes that you bowl 1,000,000 practice games a week but can't figure out why you can't afford more than 1 league. I mean being from Michigan, in your own words, is handicap enough - we should bowl scratch based on your derogatory comments of my great state.
5. How exactly do you correlate everything in life to what I said about bowling - I didn't say a pilot should fly a 747 on feel. Nor should a brain surgeon just feel around trying to find the source of the problem in his patient's brain. Talk about mothership of all assumptions. We all know what that is. You are putting words / ideas out there that don't exist.
6. So you talk about house league bowlers carrying a 4-9 ball arsenal and changing balls when you feel they shouldn't - the wind shifts, they yank a shot, their beer isn't cold, etc. but yet you say ineffective knowledge couldn't possibly be detrimental to your game? So it's ok to know RG and coverstock materials or as you say 3 numbers and 3 things and just forget about form, consistency, mechanics, repeatability, adjustments, etc.? Awesome. I had no idea the game was so simple. I guess I will sign up for the tour right..................meow. So a house bowler learns RG and coverstock, throws a terrible shot and then decides it was the wrong RG or coverstock and digs into his 4-9 ball arsenal. Does his knowledge of RG and coverstock help in this case? Or perhaps it is detrimental because he is focused on the wrong thing.

I understand why you are bored - you backed yourself into a corner and you are grasping at non-existent straws.

I got a better idea than flying to Cali to bowl you and your RG and coverstock knowledge. I will just go to KC and party with Iceman furry style. Done deal.

[vdubtx]

I am with mudpuppy on this. The numbers on any of my bowling balls mean jack to me. I know how they roll and what they can and can't do. I know the subtle differences between each one as each one reacts and performs differently based on the condition on the lanes.

First Blood is my go to ball, I know that the Disturbed reacts 3 boards more, I also know the U-Turn reacts 5 boards less. I use this knowledge when I start getting bad reaction from my go to ball and choose accordingly depending on conditions.

It's great to learn a ton regarding the game, but over analyzing and over complicating things is a bad thing in my mind. My motto is KISS. When I try to over think when out on the lanes, that is when I get into trouble and bowl poorly.

[Mudpuppy]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif.html)

Free trip to Ca, and I will WHAT??? The Free trip sounded ok, but I am not a miracle worker!!! Was that a round trip mudpuppy? I would rather bowl Aslan! Let him see the furry of THE ICEMAN on a bowling lane!! Might even give him my 3rd 300 in less then 8 months on a WOOD Lane of his choice!


I am with mudpuppy on this. The numbers on any of my bowling balls mean jack to me. I know how they roll and what they can and can't do. I know the subtle differences between each one as each one reacts and performs differently based on the condition on the lanes.

First Blood is my go to ball, I know that the Disturbed reacts 3 boards more, I also know the U-Turn reacts 5 boards less. I use this knowledge when I start getting bad reaction from my go to ball and choose accordingly depending on conditions.

It's great to learn a ton regarding the game, but over analyzing and over complicating things is a bad thing in my mind. My motto is KISS. When I try to over think when out on the lanes, that is when I get into trouble and bowl poorly.

Amen. Here is your template for a good post Aslan - well thought out, short, good information, not too much to read.

Keeping it simple is exactly what I try to do - preparation (mentally, physically, equipment, etc.) before hand and then just bowl - focus on the mechanics, the consistency, the repeatability, the small adjustments - i.e. dial in. It's no different to me than riding my motorcycle on the track - would it be helpful if I focus on the 5 compound composition of the tires and how each compound works and what lean angle I can achieve or should I realize I am doing 185mph passing the last brake marker heading into a hairpin turn and I should downshift rapidly, hard brake and throw the bike into the corner before I become a yard sale tumbling through the corner? When I play baseball should I be out in center field secure in the knowledge that I know every facet of how my hand massaged thailand leather baseball glove was made and how it works without actually knowing how to catch a baseball?

And I am not saying you or anybody else shouldn't learn about RG or coverstocks. And I am not disputing it could be helpful. It is just not my cup of tea and it would not help me at all. That is all. And I feel bowling at any level is what works for you. Othrodox, unorthodox, sideways, 2 handed, no handed, upside down.

[mc_runner]

It's great to learn a ton regarding the game, but over analyzing and over complicating things is a bad thing in my mind. My motto is KISS. When I try to over think when out on the lanes, that is when I get into trouble and bowl poorly.


This is where I come from too. Also keep in mind that RG, diff, etc can mean a totally different thing for a high rev bowler throwing over the left gutter cap at 14 mph and a lower rev guy throwing at 18mph down board 10. Factor in different drilling, pin placement, natural variation in how the ball feels on your hand... you can have a ball do totally different things than you'd think it would do.

For me, it takes a few weeks to get adjusted to a new ball and know where to stand with it, how it will react on different oil conditions, etc. Once I have that down, I "know" what it's gonna do compared to my other balls. I bought a Byte at the beginning of January to replace my Hammer Taboo Jet Black, and I figured it would react very similarly due to how I had it drilled and the stats... well, a month later I'm finally getting the hang of how it reacts to my house - I had to move left 2 boards on my "A" shot, throw it out a bit more, and I have a much stronger inside game (my "B" shot) with it than I did the Taboo.

I think knowing the RG, diff, hook potential, and all is good when you're looking at balls - to give it a really high-level feel of what the ball is capable of or designed to do. But you can really change it based on your personal style and layout, and knowing how it's going to react (going on "feel") just comes with throwing it and getting to know it.

[Aslan]

Does ANYONE even remotely agree with me??!

Bowl1820?? Rob?? MikeW? There's not ONE bowler in this highly touted community that feels knowledge is power?

So THIS is what devolved into? A group of bowlers that never practices (Mudpuppy claims I could afford 2 leagues if I stop practicing so much), that carries 4-9 bowling balls to the SAME house on the SAME lanes....yet knows NOTHING about the balls nor when to make a change...other than, "I wasn't feelin it."???

Should I insert a link to Rob's "Know Your Arsenal" article?? Wait...why am I now arguing on the side of Bowl1820 and Rob? Those guys think I'm even more of a loon than the rest of these guys. Screw it. I'm going to get an account on BowlingIntel and talk about numbers...all this "going on feel" and "Iceman's furry" is making me nauseous.

[Aslan]

As I have said before, I'll put money down that most PBA PROS couldnt tell you why they switch balls in terms of RG and such. Chris Barnes could, but CB is a freaking bowling encyclopedia.

You'd put "money down" on that? How poor are you? Because thats a sucker's bet! You're telling me WRW or PDW can't explain pin positions, RG, diff., and coverstocks??? Seriously??

Or are you just trolling trying to start another Belmo man-love arguement. Not taking the bait my friend. Although...Belmo might be the only one that DOESN'T know those terms since his style is so superior that he could throw a poop covered marshmellow and carry 12-15 pins every time...cuz he's all GOD and everything...but I digress.

Of matter of fact, I'm gonna float that question to WRW...I think he has a website where you can ask him questions.

Question 1: Mr. Williams, given it's a superior technique, when will you be switching to 2-handed bowling...and if you aren't going to, when do you plan to retire?

Question 2: Is it true that PBA professionals (other than Chris Barnes) are unable to explain the terms, RG, differential, and the differences in coverstocks?

Thank You. Concerned Bowler.

[RobLV1]

Of course, knowing the numbers is not going to change your style, it is going to give you a big edge in terms of making ball changes along with adjustments. It's one thing to know that one ball is going to cover two more boards than another, but what about when you make a ball change and a 10 board jump left. It's one thing to figure out the differences after a month, but if you know the basics of bowling balls, including the numbers, it's not going to take you a month; more like a game. Remember that the bottom line of bowling balls is that there are really only two factors involved: friction and resistence. Everything; cover, surface, core numbers, and layouts only affect one of these to things. There's no magic involved.

Aslan: Many of the pros understand the numbers involved in bowling balls. Others don't. A prime example is PDW. He freely admits to knowing nothing technical about bowling balls. He has been known to go to Storm Rep Chris Schlemmer and tell him, "I really like this ball, make it do something different." The key here is that the successful touring pros who don't know anthing about bowling balls have ball reps to know about the balls for them.

[Pauley]

To me knowing RG, Diff, Core, Coverstock, and other technical information isn't information you use while you are bowling or while you unzip your bag to make a ball change. You use that information in the buying process when filling a gap/building your arsenal. Then after utilizing that knowledge it is up to you to get the feel for exactly that ball will do for you.

Some people like to learn the technical side of the game themself and some don't want to learn it and rely on their driller's knowledge. Personally I enjoy learning the technical information, but I am like that with most things.

There was an episode of The Bowling Center where they asked numerous pros questions about RG, Diff, and other tech stuff. Obviously Chris Barnes knew all of them, but the others were about 50/50. Same as other sports, golf in particular, the top pros consist of tech junkies and the others don't know the tech stuff they just "feel". There is no wrong way you just have to find what works best for you.

[MICHAEL]

Does ANYONE even remotely agree with me??!

Bowl1820?? Rob?? MikeW? There's not ONE bowler in this highly touted community that feels knowledge is power?

So THIS is what devolved into? A group of bowlers that never practices (Mudpuppy claims I could afford 2 leagues if I stop practicing so much), that carries 4-9 bowling balls to the SAME house on the SAME lanes....yet knows NOTHING about the balls nor when to make a change...other than, "I wasn't feelin it."???

Should I insert a link to Rob's "Know Your Arsenal" article?? Wait...why am I now arguing on the side of Bowl1820 and Rob? Those guys think I'm even more of a loon than the rest of these guys. Screw it. I'm going to get an account on BowlingIntel and talk about numbers...all this "going on feel" and "Iceman's furry" is making me nauseous.

I have (undercover went to bowlingintel once in a while) BELIEVE me Aslan,, they have this FEAR that you will do JUST THAT!!!
Its almost like the fear of an ask-troid out in space, coming toward EARTH!! Will it hit earth, or be a near miss!

[Mike White]

Does ANYONE even remotely agree with me??!

Bowl1820?? Rob?? MikeW? There's not ONE bowler in this highly touted community that feels knowledge is power?

So THIS is what devolved into? A group of bowlers that never practices (Mudpuppy claims I could afford 2 leagues if I stop practicing so much), that carries 4-9 bowling balls to the SAME house on the SAME lanes....yet knows NOTHING about the balls nor when to make a change...other than, "I wasn't feelin it."???

Should I insert a link to Rob's "Know Your Arsenal" article?? Wait...why am I now arguing on the side of Bowl1820 and Rob? Those guys think I'm even more of a loon than the rest of these guys. Screw it. I'm going to get an account on BowlingIntel and talk about numbers...all this "going on feel" and "Iceman's furry" is making me nauseous.

All the knowledge is fine.

The one significant flaw I see in many bowlers, which negates most of the knowledge, is the inability to objectively watch their ball go down the lane.

Is the roll point too early, too late. Does the ball hit the right spot on the head pin. Does it over deflect.

[classygranny]

All the knowledge is fine.

The one significant flaw I see in many bowlers, which negates most of the knowledge, is the inability to objectively watch their ball go down the lane.

Is the roll point too early, too late. Does the ball hit the right spot on the head pin. Does it over deflect.

I can definitely agree with this. While I feel I am really good at watching others balls and determining these factors, I am not doing it well on my own throws. Any suggestions on how to MAKE this happen...I think I am so focused on the approach, delivery and watching the ball path (accuracy) I tend to forget to watch the roll as well as the deflection at the pins.

[MICHAEL]

I can definitely agree with this. While I feel I am really good at watching others balls and determining these factors, I am not doing it well on my own throws. Any suggestions on how to MAKE this happen...I think I am so focused on the approach, delivery and watching the ball path (accuracy) I tend to forget to watch the roll as well as the deflection at the pins.

Well Classygranny that lives in the wonderful state of AZ, where the weather is absolutely wonderful this time of year... the Simple answer is FOCUS a little longer!! YOU are on your approach, and delivery, (Just hang in there a little longer and you got! (You forget each time?,,, add Ginkgo Biloba 24% to your supplements it helps with memory lol).

In reality, its easy I know to say, Just stay in your FOCUS A LITTLE LONGER, but it boils down to dong just that.

I don't know how many times I say Focus on your mark, and hit it, and then couldn't tell you where the ball landed. lol

I do know when I have a great game or series, it all boils down to FOCUS, and studying, observing the landing of the ball, and the moment down the lane, and entry into the pocket! It tells me EVERYTHING I need to know to make corrections on my next shot!
My main problem THEN is MAKING IT HAPPEN!! LOL

Maybe before we both bowl we should have a mantra that we say BEFORE EACH SHOT! I will write mine tonight!!
Send some of that heat up this way!!!

[tccstudent]

Send some of that heat up this way!!!

Wouldnt that cause the ICEMAN to melt

[Aslan]

A prime example is PDW. He freely admits to knowing nothing technical about bowling balls. He has been known to go to Storm Rep Chris Schlemmer and tell him, "I really like this ball, make it do something different." The key here is that the successful touring pros who don't know anthing about bowling balls have ball reps to know about the balls for them.

I now have even less respect for him than before. I realize pros have experts to help them just like us casual bowlers have house pros…but the idea that a Nascar driver knows nothing about different tires and a pro bowler can't explain the basics of a overstock is absurd…and they should be ashamed of themselves if thats the case. I used to play paintball regularly, and one of my biggest irritations was all the noobs that showed up and couldn't use their equipment because they couldn't understand the basics of how it worked. They didn't understand the basics of how to diagnose the problems and why their guns stopped working. I had to take their guns, disassemble them, make a few adjustments….whammo…problem solved. And believe me…I'm NOT mechanical!! I can barely change the brakes on my car. But if I'm driving an hour to use a piece of equipment and compete…I'm gonna at least know the basics of how the equipment works.


I have (undercover went to bowlingintel once in a while) BELIEVE me Aslan,, they have this FEAR that you will do JUST THAT!!!
Its almost like the fear of an ask-troid out in space, coming toward EARTH!! Will it hit earth, or be a near miss!

Well Ice, Ive been told that I'm not welcome there…despite those making that comment ever having dealt with me here…so I doubt I'd last very long. Unless…like most people on the internet…I pretend to be something/someone I'm not. Maybe pretend I'm older or a woman or a former PBA bowler. As long as I don't "argue" right? Who knows…maybe I'm already there. ; )

[Mudpuppy]

Well Classygranny that lives in the wonderful state of AZ, where the weather is absolutely wonderful this time of year... the Simple answer is FOCUS a little longer!! YOU are on your approach, and delivery, (Just hang in there a little longer and you got! (You forget each time?,,, add Ginkgo Biloba 24% to your supplements it helps with memory lol).

In reality, its easy I know to say, Just stay in your FOCUS A LITTLE LONGER, but it boils down to dong just that.

I don't know how many times I say Focus on your mark, and hit it, and then couldn't tell you where the ball landed. lol

I do know when I have a great game or series, it all boils down to FOCUS, and studying, observing the landing of the ball, and the moment down the lane, and entry into the pocket! It tells me EVERYTHING I need to know to make corrections on my next shot!
My main problem THEN is MAKING IT HAPPEN!! LOL

Maybe before we both bowl we should have a mantra that we say BEFORE EACH SHOT! I will write mine tonight!!
Send some of that heat up this way!!!

Iceman I find that meditation before and during bowling is a big help. There are a lot of techniques I use. A mantra could work too.


I now have even less respect for him than before. I realize pros have experts to help them just like us casual bowlers have house pros…but the idea that a Nascar driver knows nothing about different tires and a pro bowler can't explain the basics of a overstock is absurd…and they should be ashamed of themselves if thats the case. I used to play paintball regularly, and one of my biggest irritations was all the noobs that showed up and couldn't use their equipment because they couldn't understand the basics of how it worked. They didn't understand the basics of how to diagnose the problems and why their guns stopped working. I had to take their guns, disassemble them, make a few adjustments….whammo…problem solved. And believe me…I'm NOT mechanical!! I can barely change the brakes on my car. But if I'm driving an hour to use a piece of equipment and compete…I'm gonna at least know the basics of how the equipment works.



Well Ice, Ive been told that I'm not welcome there…despite those making that comment ever having dealt with me here…so I doubt I'd last very long. Unless…like most people on the internet…I pretend to be something/someone I'm not. Maybe pretend I'm older or a woman or a former PBA bowler. As long as I don't "argue" right? Who knows…maybe I'm already there. ; )

I am highly mechanical - I work on my own vehicles including my bike. I also have studied material sciences extensively. I worked in a lot of shops - machine, fabrications, etc. I know all about PPAPs, mechanical drawings, electrical drawings, datums, quality inspection including welding metallurgy, etc. etc. I have zero interest in RGs or coverstocks and I find the knowledge of zero value to my game. That's my opinion. Although I do agree with you and I understand where you are coming from - knowing the basics. No different than these fools that never rode a motorcycle before buying a 200hp Suzuki GSXR and showing up to bike night in Royal Oak in shorts, wife beater and flip flops reving the engine. You do need a basic knowledge regardless of the subject and yes it irritates me too when people don't take the time to learn basic knowledge or try to understand something but complain it doesn't work. I feel like I have more than a basic knowledge of the game - mostly due to Earl Anthony and 20 years of my own bowling experience. That just doesn't include those specifics because I don't feel I need those to maintain or improve my game.

[Aslan]

Although I do agree with you and I understand where you are coming from - knowing the basics. No different than these fools that never rode a motorcycle before buying a 200hp Suzuki GSXR and showing up to bike night in Royal Oak in shorts, wife beater and flip flops reving the engine.

Most people that show up for bike night in Roayl Oak are idiots.

It's a shame because what really hurts motorcycling is that people get a "itch", they buy one...and I swear they crash it in less than 2 weeks of owning it. They literally crash it before they have a permit to legally operate it in many cases.

And I don't know whats more ignorant. The helmetless MC 1%er wannabe that is decked out head to toe in leather and harley vests....yet apparently thinks his bald head will protect him from a crash....or the crotch rocket guy with a $500 helmet who decides the rest of his body is only worth protecting by shorts, a tank top, and sandals. Idiots.

I've never dumped. The closest I came was I parked by bike on an uneven parking lot and it "fell" over because I had a heavy bag strapped to it. Fortunately no damage. But I've come close. I've felt that back tire slide out on more than one occasion. And the difference between getting up and walking over to your bike after dumping it...and being a statistic or having a body of scar tissue...is putting on a helmet and wearing a leather coat and at least long pants. I rode in shorts ONE time...2 blocks to the gas station. I burnt my leg on the exhaust pipe and had to go to the emergency room. That was the first and last time.

Now...did I follow those rules as a youngster on dirt bikes??? Uhhh...nope. Almost always wore a helmet though. And dirt is a LOT more forgiving than pavement!!