Thing I would like to incorporate in my swing......

[Hammer]

That thing would be the inside out swing. I must have some of it now because I can play kind of deep and walk straight and throw my ball to a target left(I am left handed). But when I make my swing it doesn't feel like it is as inside out as it should be. What I should do is get a qualified coach and have him critique my swing. I know you are supposed to keep your swing under your head at release to get enough power on the ball when it comes off of your hand. When you see a pro swing from behind them you can see that they swing straight back but on the forward swing you can see their ball side arm tuck in close to their side and when they let their ball go it goes close to their ankle and out to the right.

I was thinking of trying this out at practice. Hopefully I can do this without ramming the ball into the back of my leg. What I think would keep this from happening is staying on the inside of the ball with my hand until it gets near the release area. Plus the weight of the ball should keep my arm straight and away from the back of my leg. Anyone else here trying to get the inside out swing?

[Mike White]

That thing would be the inside out swing. I must have some of it now because I can play kind of deep and walk straight and throw my ball to a target left(I am left handed). But when I make my swing it doesn't feel like it is as inside out as it should be. What I should do is get a qualified coach and have him critique my swing. I know you are supposed to keep your swing under your head at release to get enough power on the ball when it comes off of your hand. When you see a pro swing from behind them you can see that they swing straight back but on the forward swing you can see their ball side arm tuck in close to their side and when they let their ball go it goes close to their ankle and out to the right.

I was thinking of trying this out at practice. Hopefully I can do this without ramming the ball into the back of my leg. What I think would keep this from happening is staying on the inside of the ball with my hand until it gets near the release area. Plus the weight of the ball should keep my arm straight and away from the back of my leg. Anyone else here trying to get the inside out swing?

I think a lot of what you see is the illusion of camera angle.

The ball from it's peak of the backswing, down and through your target should be on the same vertical plane.

If the camera lens isn't also on that plane, you get the illusion of a change of direction (inside out).

Norm Duke talks about the figure 8. But his description doesn't quite follow the laws of physics.
So it's more of a teaching tool than a true description of what is happening.

[Hammer]

You can really see the pros inside out swing on the YOUTUBE video Analysis of Modern 10-pin Bowling Swing and Release. The ball does go straight back but on the way down their ball arm comes inside toward their body and gets close to the ankle at the bottom of the swing and the ball then goes out to the right. If the ball went straight back and from the top of the backswing went straight forward the ball wouldn't be going out to the right.

[Aslan]

I'd like to incoporate that whole "inside quadrant" thing into my release/swing...where my elbow is inside and my hand on the inside of the ball...but thus far...all attempts to do that and open the ball to the outside have been miserable failures. At one point 2 weeks ago I got so confused with my hand position and trying to get the hand inside the ball...I fell down at the foul line because I guess I was taking too big of steps (not paying attention) and almost walked out onto the lane surface. Doht.

[swingset]

There's a reason so few people can do that sort of swing - it's really friggin hard to build consistency using it. You're imparting lateral muscle movement during a gross forward/to back movement of the shoulder, then more movements on your release at the end...that's something you're going to have to drill into your muscle memory for a long damned time, have some natural physical aptitude to do it, and even then there's no guarantee you'll be as good with that motion as you are without.

I can do it, but it's a challenge and harder on my wrist than I'm comfortable with, especially as I age. Sometimes you gotta be a little careful what you wish for.

[Aslan]

Well, reading all this modern bowling stuff and DYDS...it just seems to get burned into your head that if you DON'T develop a modern swing and release...you might as well just settle for bowling a 125 during cosmic bowling or joining a no-tap league because you'll never be a good enough bowler to be taken seriously. I'd like to SOMEDAY throw a 300-game....SOMEDAY. And if that means falling in line with a modern release...then I guess I gotta board that train.

[swingset]

Well, reading all this modern bowling stuff and DYDS...it just seems to get burned into your head that if you DON'T develop a modern swing and release...you might as well just settle for bowling a 125 during cosmic bowling or joining a no-tap league because you'll never be a good enough bowler to be taken seriously. I'd like to SOMEDAY throw a 300-game....SOMEDAY. And if that means falling in line with a modern release...then I guess I gotta board that train.

The "modern" game is a trend, nothing more. People were dominating the sport with all the things that folks like Slowinski now would tell you that you're wrong for doing, and I can name half a dozen pros with huge flaws in their delivery.

There's no rule, there's generally agreed upon "fundamentals".

[Aslan]

It does seem a little "odd" that if you bowl like WRW, people say you aren't bowling correctly...yet WRW has more PBA titles than anyone in history and is largely considered the single best bowler (overall) on the planet.

[zdawg]

It does seem a little "odd" that if you bowl like WRW, people say you aren't bowling correctly...yet WRW has more PBA titles than anyone in history and is largely considered the single best bowler (overall) on the planet.

For me its simple, I'm just starting out bowling so I'm trying to incorporate the "modern" stuff like the release etc, while consulting with a high level coach who coaches top level PBA pros once every month or two.

Due to the uncertain job market here in San Diego, I've unfortunately been left with a LOT of time on my hands that I won't have when I start working full time again (whether its here or back home on the east coast), so why not try to learn everything I can now. I have time on my hands so I practice 6 - 10 hours/week as bowling is literally the only cheap thing to do here in San Diego (my home alley charges 1.75/game for league bowlers), and since I don't have a style yet I'm going with the latest techniques that seem to help people achieve the most success.

The way I look at it is this, for me it's been one step forward, half a step back and so on. I'm fine with that, as I'm still in week 22 of my first ever league and I joined the team as an absolute beginner who for the last 3 weeks has carried the team. That said, as I continue to develop my style if my average goes down or it gets worse before it gets better I'm fine with that.

I just want to learn and try everything I can at the beginning while I'm developing my "style", rather than 10 or 15 years down the road have to try to unlearn things I've been doing for over a decade or longer - just makes sense to me.

[Hammer]

The "modern" game is a trend, nothing more. People were dominating the sport with all the things that folks like Slowinski now would tell you that you're wrong for doing, and I can name half a dozen pros with huge flaws in their delivery.

There's no rule, there's generally agreed upon "fundamentals".

I think the modern swing was developed for bowlers to be able to handle the new balls with their asymmetric and symmetric cores and the new surfaces that grip the lanes better then the rubber or urethane balls did. It would be interesting to see an old school bowler using modern equipment go up against a modern technique bowler with new equipment and see how that would pan out.

Would the old school technique be able to handle a modern bowling ball?

[Mike White]

It does seem a little "odd" that if you bowl like WRW, people say you aren't bowling correctly...yet WRW has more PBA titles than anyone in history and is largely considered the single best bowler (overall) on the planet.

He doesn't rely on a powerful ball, but on deadly accuracy.

It's hard to develop WRW kind of accuracy when the oil patterns give you 3-5 boards.

WRW developed the extreme accuracy not from bowling, but from horse shoes.

You can try to emulate him, but to do so you need to master horse shoes first.

I think his ringer % was somewhere above 95%

[RobLV1]

The modern release came about as a result of the need to project modern reactive resin balls out (left to right for a right-handed bowler). Some of the older players from pre-reactive days have adapted: Walter Ray with a straighter, more accurate shot with more ball speed, Norm Duke and Pete Weber with working very hard to keep from "hitting" the ball at all. Pete wears the golf glove to keep his fingers out of the equation, and Norm actually doesn't bevel his finger holes or thumb hole to keep from grabbing at all. The edges or so sharp, that if he grabs, he bleeds!

[swingset]

I think the modern swing was developed for bowlers to be able to handle the new balls with their asymmetric and symmetric cores and the new surfaces that grip the lanes better then the rubber or urethane balls did. It would be interesting to see an old school bowler using modern equipment go up against a modern technique bowler with new equipment and see how that would pan out.

Would the old school technique be able to handle a modern bowling ball?

All depends on the ball and the conditions. At the pro level, probably be hard to compete with power players throwing the classic style, but I've seen some guys locally that are seniors or old-school bowlers who dominate with a traditional style. One of the best in our area (with an 879 to his credit) is right out of 1970. He's just as deadly in tournaments...but he's robotic in his accuracy, that's got to help.

Then, there are guys who have what I would best describe as "all wrong but right" deliveries who have elements of the modern swing, but horrendous mechanics....yet they get the job done.

What's seldom talked about in conversations like this, but we all know to be true, is some people are just gifted with the right skeletal and muscular build and have an aptitude for performing certain tasks. WRW dominates because he's a guy who could probably play tournament darts or any other accuracy game to its highest level, and me with 1000 years of coaching and all the practice a man could have will never be that good. I might be a vastly better version of myself, but I'm not going to be him.

Some people have the release and delivery they do because they're wired to make it work for them. The worst mistake a bowler can do is emulate something that's not in their physiological wheelhouse to deliver.

[Hammer]

All depends on the ball and the conditions. At the pro level, probably be hard to compete with power players throwing the classic style, but I've seen some guys locally that are seniors or old-school bowlers who dominate with a traditional style. One of the best in our area (with an 879 to his credit) is right out of 1970. He's just as deadly in tournaments...but he's robotic in his accuracy, that's got to help.

Then, there are guys who have what I would best describe as "all wrong but right" deliveries who have elements of the modern swing, but horrendous mechanics....yet they get the job done.

What's seldom talked about in conversations like this, but we all know to be true, is some people are just gifted with the right skeletal and muscular build and have an aptitude for performing certain tasks. WRW dominates because he's a guy who could probably play tournament darts or any other accuracy game to its highest level, and me with 1000 years of coaching and all the practice a man could have will never be that good. I might be a vastly better version of myself, but I'm not going to be him.

Some people have the release and delivery they do because they're wired to make it work for them. The worst mistake a bowler can do is emulate something that's not in their physiological wheelhouse to deliver.

The guy that is straight out of the 70s what kind of ball does he use?

[Aslan]

You can try to emulate him, but to do so you need to master horse shoes first.

I think his ringer % was somewhere above 95%

Dammit. My horseshoe ringer % is far less. I wonder of WRW would have been a pro "Jarts"...had they not been outlawed.

[Mike White]

Dammit. My horseshoe ringer % is far less. I wonder of WRW would have been a pro "Jarts"...had they not been outlawed.

I've heard it said:

Anything you need done underhanded, he's the man.

[swingset]

The guy that is straight out of the 70s what kind of ball does he use?

Storm equipment, IIRC....IQ Pearl, Hyroad, etc.

[sprocket]

Some people have the release and delivery they do because they're wired to make it work for them. The worst mistake a bowler can do is emulate something that's not in their physiological wheelhouse to deliver.


I've decided I want to bowl just like E.J. Tackett.;)

Really there's not much point in emulating anyone. Name two pro bowlers who bowl just alike. To each, his own.