Get the inside out swing by Joe Slowinski.....

[Hammer]

Here is a link that is good reading on how to get a pro inside out swing. Hope this works out.
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskimay12.pdf

This is the info that I was looking for. It explains it in good detail.

[Aslan]

A little too in depth, but interesting nonetheless. I have to admit the inside out swing, as weird as it seems physically…does "feel" more natural.

[Mike White]

A little too in depth, but interesting nonetheless. I have to admit the inside out swing, as weird as it seems physically…does "feel" more natural.

Did you notice his camera angles..

Compared to the path of the ball on the lane, for both Jones, and Couch the camera is positioned to the outside of the path.

For the amateur, the camera is position to the inside of the path.

Kinds skews the data,

"Since we are assessing relative lateral swing displacement, the video camera should be placed directly in line with where the bowler’s downswing starts."

As long as the camera is pointed toward the vertical line passing thru the downswing point, there are infinite locations for the camera to fit that description.

The best one is where the camera is pointed directly along the path of the ball after release.

[Aslan]

What I "worry" about is this type of swing is completely contrary to any instruction I've gotten so far.

I've worked with Barry Asher at a clinic on occasion, and he had me pushing the ball outward and making sure my shoulders and hips were straight and making sure my head stayed straight up and down. And thats not some "schlub". It's a HOF PBA bowler.

Yet in this method...you ball is going crossbody, you're not pushing it out towards your target on your first step, you're completely turning your shoulders (lateral spine tilt), and when you release the ball your head is at 45 degrees versus straight up and down.

Again, I'm open to all kinds of modern ideas and such...at this stage I'm trying to be a "sponge" and take in as much advice as I can...but as I expressed frustrations early on in my journey...sometimes "advice", even from very high level credentialed individuals, can be contradictory.

[Mike White]

What I "worry" about is this type of swing is completely contrary to any instruction I've gotten so far.

I've worked with Barry Asher at a clinic on occasion, and he had me pushing the ball outward and making sure my shoulders and hips were straight and making sure my head stayed straight up and down. And thats not some "schlub". It's a HOF PBA bowler.

Yet in this method...you ball is going crossbody, you're not pushing it out towards your target on your first step, you're completely turning your shoulders (lateral spine tilt), and when you release the ball your head is at 45 degrees versus straight up and down.

Again, I'm open to all kinds of modern ideas and such...at this stage I'm trying to be a "sponge" and take in as much advice as I can...but as I expressed frustrations early on in my journey...sometimes "advice", even from very high level credentialed individuals, can be contradictory.

There are two kinds of "instructions".
One is to tell you what needs to be done.
The other is to tell you what you need to try to do.
You probably won't achieve what you try to do, but you just might achieve what needs to be done.

Lets say we wanted to get your loft down to 2 feet instead of 15 feet.

If I told you to try to loft it 2 feet, you probably would still loft it 10+ feet.

However if I told you to set the ball down behind the foul line, you just might get it down at the 2 foot distance.

Yes, I told you to set the ball down behind the foul line, and no that is not in conflict with someone else telling you to loft it about 2 feet past the foul line.

[Aslan]

I was mentioning a very SPECIFIC distinct difference in instruction.

MOST coahces will agree that your shoulders should be paralell with the foul line and your head should stay striaght up and down. Joe's mehtod contradicts that in two very DISTINCT ways:
1) DYDS by definition...your shoulders tilt.
2) Your head also tilts laterally.

I've asked Joe why it's okay to have your head tilt to the side (against conventional thinking) and his response was something to the effect that it doesn't really matter due to the principle of a "dominant eye".

Early on there was a distinct difference where once coach said to loft/chuck the ball. Very upright...long loft. No other coach has "endorsed" that approach. And I only stopped doing it (because I was successful with it) because on lanes that were synthetic and heavier oil...that approach was less effective.

So yes, obviously all coaches want you to get better...but I think some coaches also hold onto some "basics" that are not necessarily "basics". Others resist modern changes. Others are attched to a certain modern ideal and everything they preach goes back to that modern concept. But as 2-handed and thumbless has taught us over the years...just because something flies in the face of convention...doesn't mean it can't eventually be successful.

I still buy into the old adage that you aim at the dots or the arrows and move laterally. I think thats a "basic" thing...an "essential" thing. But there could be, someday, a person that comes along that has a new aproach emphasizing staring down the pins. I doubt it...but ya never know. Bowling is a rare game in it's simplicity....which allows for very different approaches to garner equally positive results.

[Hammer]

I was mentioning a very SPECIFIC distinct difference in instruction.

MOST coahces will agree that your shoulders should be paralell with the foul line and your head should stay striaght up and down. Joe's mehtod contradicts that in two very DISTINCT ways:
1) DYDS by definition...your shoulders tilt.
2) Your head also tilts laterally.

I've asked Joe why it's okay to have your head tilt to the side (against conventional thinking) and his response was something to the effect that it doesn't really matter due to the principle of a "dominant eye".

Early on there was a distinct difference where once coach said to loft/chuck the ball. Very upright...long loft. No other coach has "endorsed" that approach. And I only stopped doing it (because I was successful with it) because on lanes that were synthetic and heavier oil...that approach was less effective.

So yes, obviously all coaches want you to get better...but I think some coaches also hold onto some "basics" that are not necessarily "basics". Others resist modern changes. Others are attched to a certain modern ideal and everything they preach goes back to that modern concept. But as 2-handed and thumbless has taught us over the years...just because something flies in the face of convention...doesn't mean it can't eventually be successful.

I still buy into the old adage that you aim at the dots or the arrows and move laterally. I think thats a "basic" thing...an "essential" thing. But there could be, someday, a person that comes along that has a new aproach emphasizing staring down the pins. I doubt it...but ya never know. Bowling is a rare game in it's simplicity....which allows for very different approaches to garner equally positive results.

After watching my favorite YOUTUBE bowling instructional video the guys in that video are not following the advice of those most coaches you are talking about. It seems like they are following the advice of Joe Slowinski and are doing pretty good with it. Your bowling swing cannot go high on the backswing with shoulders parallel to the foul line because your shoulder will not let you get high. The only way you will achieve a high backswing is to open your shoulders 60 to 90 degrees and have some forward tilt to your body.

When you say most coaches in your reply how many are we talking about? There are a lot of coaches out there to talk to.

[RobLV1]

So much in coaching depends on the age, experience, and goals of your student. Teaching traditional aspects of the game is the most effective way of developing the basics of bowling: timing, footwork, a muscle-free armswing, and release. Most coaches special in teaching bowlers in a specific range of proficiency. I don't know Joe personally, but I'd be very surprised to find out that he coaches any beginning, or even intermediate-level bowlers. Personally I tend to coach mostly intermediate to high average bowlers, though I will help out a beginning bowler if they really want to learn to get better.

Frankly, bowling forum sites, like this one, makes our job as coaches much tougher for the simple reason that it exposes bowlers of all levels to all levels of input and knowledge. In other words, in a world without the internet, beginning and intermediate-level bowlers wouldn't even know that a modern release exists. They wouldn't even consider working the inside of the bowling ball, or dropping their shoulder, or even consider a lateral offset of the head. But the internet does exist, and every bowler has access to every level of advice.

Getting back to the individuality of the student, the only time that I would even consider trying to teach an intermediate-level bowler the modern specifics of the game is if the student was young, had stumbled on some of the modern priciples on their own, or, in the case of an older student, was totally committed to invest the time required to learn to compete at the highest levels. Once a beginning or intermediate level bowler has mastered the basics and expressed and interest, then, and only then, will I introduce specifics that are more condusive to modern bowling.

[Mike White]

I was mentioning a very SPECIFIC distinct difference in instruction.

MOST coahces will agree that your shoulders should be paralell with the foul line and your head should stay striaght up and down. Joe's mehtod contradicts that in two very DISTINCT ways:
1) DYDS by definition...your shoulders tilt.
2) Your head also tilts laterally.

I've asked Joe why it's okay to have your head tilt to the side (against conventional thinking) and his response was something to the effect that it doesn't really matter due to the principle of a "dominant eye".


"Shoulders being parallel to the foul line" is usually talking about at the release, and meaning not to have one shoulder more forward than the other. Such as Open, Closed, Over Closed.

Slowinsky is talking about how horizontal the shoulders are. your right shoulder would be lower than your left.

This tilt, causes your eyes to be positioned more over your shoulder, and in the same plane as the ball's path.

If you happen to be right handed, and left eye dominant, it takes more head tilt to get that eye on the same plane.

[Hammer]

So much in coaching depends on the age, experience, and goals of your student. Teaching traditional aspects of the game is the most effective way of developing the basics of bowling: timing, footwork, a muscle-free armswing, and release. Most coaches special in teaching bowlers in a specific range of proficiency. I don't know Joe personally, but I'd be very surprised to find out that he coaches any beginning, or even intermediate-level bowlers. Personally I tend to coach mostly intermediate to high average bowlers, though I will help out a beginning bowler if they really want to learn to get better.

Frankly, bowling forum sites, like this one, makes our job as coaches much tougher for the simple reason that it exposes bowlers of all levels to all levels of input and knowledge. In other words, in a world without the internet, beginning and intermediate-level bowlers wouldn't even know that a modern release exists. They wouldn't even consider working the inside of the bowling ball, or dropping their shoulder, or even consider a lateral offset of the head. But the internet does exist, and every bowler has access to every level of advice.

Getting back to the individuality of the student, the only time that I would even consider trying to teach an intermediate-level bowler the modern specifics of the game is if the student was young, had stumbled on some of the modern priciples on their own, or, in the case of an older student, was totally committed to invest the time required to learn to compete at the highest levels. Once a beginning or intermediate level bowler has mastered the basics and expressed and interest, then, and only then, will I introduce specifics that are more condusive to modern bowling.

I agree with you on teaching beginning and intermediate level bowlers the traditional style of bowling to get them started on the basics. The modern technique used by high level bowlers would be just to hard for them to get started. They have to get started slow so they won't get frustrated and end up quiting the game. So the traditional way is a good way to get started. It will be hard enough to teach them how to hook a ball.

The reason I try some of the modern stuff is because I have been league bowling for 31 years and know for the most part the correct way to release a ball. I can play straight up or deep if I have to. I like to experiment with certain parts of the modern swing to see how it feels and if I can do it. I know it takes a while to develope any part of the modern technique. I know that chances are I won't get it perfect but maybe I can get close to it. I might get it right on one swing and not get it on the next. I don't invest the time to get it consistant because of age and body issues but it is fun to fool with it.

[RobLV1]

Hammer: Good for you! It's not a matter of be a traditional bowler, or be a modern bowler. It's all a matter of degree. Incorporate what you can, throw out what doesn't work for you. This is supposed to be fun. It sounds like it is for you.

[Aslan]

Incorporate what you can, throw out what doesn't work for you. This is supposed to be fun. It sounds like it is for you.

Thats the advice I follow! I just always wrestle with it because I don't want to give up on being better bowler because I'm "more comfortable" continuing to bowl traditionally. But I've also found that I tend to get better when getting input from multiple sources and doing exactly what you are saying. I take in their advice, I try to apply parts of it to my game…some stuff works so I keep doing it…some things don't.

I've bolded the parts I have incorporated into my game:

Coach 1: Short approach, hand to the ceiling and post, lateral movement versus using a spare ball, shoulders square to the foul line, 4-step approach.

Coach 2: belt buckle to the target, easy release/no muscling, head always straight up and down, push the ball out towards the target.

Internet/other advice/methods: 5-step approach, ball starts low and to the left, use of a spare ball, expanded arsenal, DYDS, modern release, lower loft

Etc…

Still working on DYDS; just having some problems with balance. Seeing some of the guys that o DYDS successfully have a DRASTIC lateral tilt. Their balance arm is almost 30 degrees from straight up and down versus 90 degrees when it's out to the side.

And then there are aspects to my game that seem to work despite not being "taught" to do them. For example, my targeting system of throwing along a line rather than towards a target….which forces me to decrease my excessive loft. And my leg kick to the side which keeps me from over-rotating my shoulders and pulling the shot.

[Hammer]

We have to remember that this article is about how to get a pro inside out swing. We can fool with it in practice but as far as getting it right is another story. Some of us will learn faster then others. Some might just can it and bowl their own way.