Please review my video.

[TotallyDefiant]

Any tips are welcomed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW8NlW5bmyA

[vdubtx]

Not an expert at dissecting anyone's form, but from what I saw you have no push away on your approach. I used to be the same way, adding a push away on your first step can help keep timing in line.

Another thing I saw was there is not much of an arm swing. With a push away this should get you going to an arm swing. Push away and let the ball travel back and then forward for your delivery. One last thing was your feet seem to be fast. Slow down just a bit.

Check out Chris Barnes' video for 4 step and 5 step approaches. I always seem to go back to this video when I need a quick primer to get myself back in to time with my steps.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoyRbBHXQOA

Overall I saw good form.

Again, just my $.02, not an expert nor a coach here. :cool:

[TotallyDefiant]

Not an expert at dissecting anyone's form, but from what I saw you have no push away on your approach. I used to be the same way, adding a push away on your first step can help keep timing in line.

Another thing I saw was there is not much of an arm swing. With a push away this should get you going to an arm swing. Push away and let the ball travel back and then forward for your delivery. One last thing was your feet seem to be fast. Slow down just a bit.

Check out Chris Barnes' video for 4 step and 5 step approaches. I always seem to go back to this video when I need a quick primer to get myself back in to time with my steps.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoyRbBHXQOA

Overall I saw good form.

Again, just my $.02, not an expert nor a coach here. :cool:

That is what I thought about my foot work after watching the video. I personally thought it was too fast and too hard to repeat consistently. Even with that short arm swing my speed is still averaging close to 17.5mph. Thank you for the tips..

[sprocket]

Pretty well muscled. IMHO, if you didn't want to make drastic changes to get a proper back swing you might be a good candidate to try thumbless. Yeah, OK go ahead and shoot me now.

But think about this: You can get 17.5MPH without much back swing. Most thumbless guys lack speed because they can't get good speed and balance without back swing. But you can!

[noeymc]

your timing is ok could be better and prop will be if you free your swing up there is no such thing as proper forum everyone has there own style you have a hinge instead of a push off i would stop muscling the ball thing a swing set how you float at the top for a sec different angels would help try to wear shorts as well so we can see knee bend

questions for u

do u have a knee problem if so i would slide sliding is easier on the knees ;)

how consistent are u at hitting ur mark

[TotallyDefiant]

Pretty well muscled. IMHO, if you didn't want to make drastic changes to get a proper back swing you might be a good candidate to try thumbless. Yeah, OK go ahead and shoot me now.

But think about this: You can get 17.5MPH without much back swing. Most thumbless guys lack speed because they can't get good speed and balance without back swing. But you can!

I actually use to bowl thumbless before I bought my new ball. I hated the fact that the big swinging hook from the very first board on the left all the way to the first board on the right was very inconsistent and could not repeat it on every throw. Yes, I still threw the ball between 17-18mph thumbless but I could not string strikes together they way I can now with more control over the ball which is why I wanted to go back to a traditional grip. I mean don't get me wrong I could throw a 240 thumbless or I could throw a 120. I hated the inconsistency. Since I have started bowling this way my bad games are in the 160s and my semi good games are 190-200. Just looking for advise because I want my bad games to be where my good games are now.

[TotallyDefiant]

your timing is ok could be better and prop will be if you free your swing up there is no such thing as proper forum everyone has there own style you have a hinge instead of a push off i would stop muscling the ball thing a swing set how you float at the top for a sec different angels would help try to wear shorts as well so we can see knee bend

questions for u

do u have a knee problem if so i would slide sliding is easier on the knees ;)

how consistent are u at hitting ur mark

I do not have any knee problems with my left leg. The right leg is a different story. I do not think you would want me shooting a video with me wearing shorts. The glare would be so bad you would not be able to see anything other than a blur lol. As far as hitting my mark it is inconsistent at the moment. Just something I have been thinking about after watching a lot of videos and some tips a coach gave me on another site that could probably help me out a ton is this. I think I need to slow my feet down a bit, get my hand back behind the ball, and concentrate on keeping my hand low and as close to my body as possible and just work really hard and trying to teach myself to rotate my wrist at release. Hopefully, if I work on that as hard as I did my golf swing I will get the hang of it. The rotating of the wrist is a rather difficult thing for me to do.

[noeymc]

I do not have any knee problems with my left leg. The right leg is a different story. I do not think you would want me shooting a video with me wearing shorts. The glare would be so bad you would not be able to see anything other than a blur lol. As far as hitting my mark it is inconsistent at the moment. Just something I have been thinking about after watching a lot of videos and some tips a coach gave me on another site that could probably help me out a ton is this. I think I need to slow my feet down a bit, get my hand back behind the ball, and concentrate on keeping my hand low and as close to my body as possible and just work really hard and trying to teach myself to rotate my wrist at release. Hopefully, if I work on that as hard as I did my golf swing I will get the hang of it. The rotating of the wrist is a rather difficult thing for me to do.

if you do feel any pain in your knees i would suggest adding a slide if your not feeling any pain or discomfort keep planting the in consistently in hitting your mark could come from many different things the most common issues are your not watching the ball roll over your mark, your muscling the ball, squeezing the ball with your hands... obv you are muscling the ball so id start by freeing up your swing and try just slowing your first step down and watch how much its slows your feet down now by doing this it will affect your timing so dont be mad if your scores drop a little gotta go down before you go up right? as far as the wrist i would work on keep it straight and just throwing the ball like your going to shake somones hand or grab pin in such id only pick 2-3 things to work on at a time any more then that and u might create a bad habit

[Aslan]

That is what I thought about my foot work after watching the video. I personally thought it was too fast and too hard to repeat consistently. Even with that short arm swing my speed is still averaging close to 17.5mph. Thank you for the tips.. Agreed. The footwork is fast and furious. I'd have to play it inslow motion to see the actual footwork. Seems very hard to repeat consistently.


if you didn't want to make drastic changes to get a proper back swing you might be a good candidate to try thumbless.

But think about this: You can get 17.5MPH without much back swing. Most thumbless guys lack speed because they can't get good speed and balance without back swing. But you can! No.


I mean don't get me wrong I could throw a 240 thumbless or I could throw a 120. I hated the inconsistency. Since I have started bowling this way my bad games are in the 160s and my semi good games are 190-200. Ding ding ding!! Downside to thumbless and 2-handed (or even high rev cranking)? Inconsistency.

I'm like you TD; I CAN score higher if I start throwing higher rev at 19-21mph. But my games look like 179-119-224-118-145-234-109. Throwing at lower speed and loft with less revs...it's not as "flashy", but I can throw 159-165-179-181-167-169. Two weeks ago I almost won a triplicate patch (throwing 3 games with the same score in a series). Consistency isn't my problem. It's that I'm not consistently awesome that is my problem.

[TotallyDefiant]

Agreed. The footwork is fast and furious. I'd have to play it inslow motion to see the actual footwork. Seems very hard to repeat consistently.

No.

Ding ding ding!! Downside to thumbless and 2-handed (or even high rev cranking)? Inconsistency.

I'm like you TD; I CAN score higher if I start throwing higher rev at 19-21mph. But my games look like 179-119-224-118-145-234-109. Throwing at lower speed and loft with less revs...it's not as "flashy", but I can throw 159-165-179-181-167-169. Two weeks ago I almost won a triplicate patch (throwing 3 games with the same score in a series). Consistency isn't my problem. It's that I'm not consistently awesome that is my problem.

I really am not to concerned with how long, how high of a back swing I have. A lot of pro bowlers and really good amateur bowlers have low, short back swings. I just want consistent and as close to proper as I can get. The bowling swing is similar to the golf swing from my analysis. Yes, I am use to analyzing very technical golf swings as I dissected my golf swing constantly and could dissect any pro golfers swing to the tiniest thing and tell them where their misses are coming from. If I can get as good at bowling as I was at golf then I will be a happy individual. Same principals apply in both sports. Hours and hours of practicing proper technique will lead to better scores.

[swingset]

Will echo others here with some of it, but my observations:

1. At address, your hand is already around the side of ball, forcing your forearm/wrist to keep it in position - literally "training" your arm to do all the work and muscle the ball. CRADLE the ball here, with your hand under the ball, so it's behind the ball on drop & swing....this will create a free swing and help to stay behind the ball for better roll & hook....also take a ton of stress off your wrist. Your hand should not be on the side of the ball until the very last millisecond of your release - where revs are generated by coming up through the ball, instead of around it.

2. Your first step (in a four-step) should be IN FRONT of your left foot (taking it out of the way of your back swing). Instead, it goes straight ahead and this further reinforces your arm to come around your body....preventing the free back swing with "no muscle".

3. That failure to walk the "tight rope" on the first step keeps your head left of the ball as your swing happens, so you're not in line as you swing. This will create man tugged shots, and wide-lefts...and exascerbate timing issues.

4. Slow down...feet are flying. With a more free swing, you will gain back what slower feet cost you in ball speed.

The good: You are balanced at the line and posting pretty well....which is much easier to work with than if you're good up until the line then fall apart.

You're not far from good mechanics, just needs cleaned up a bit.

[TotallyDefiant]

Will echo others here with some of it, but my observations:

1. At address, your hand is already around the side of ball, forcing your forearm/wrist to keep it in position - literally "training" your arm to do all the work and muscle the ball. CRADLE the ball here, with your hand under the ball, so it's behind the ball on drop & swing....this will create a free swing and help to stay behind the ball for better roll & hook....also take a ton of stress off your wrist. Your hand should not be on the side of the ball until the very last millisecond of your release - where revs are generated by coming up through the ball, instead of around it.

2. Your first step (in a four-step) should be IN FRONT of your left foot (taking it out of the way of your back swing). Instead, it goes straight ahead and this further reinforces your arm to come around your body....preventing the free back swing with "no muscle".

3. That failure to walk the "tight rope" on the first step keeps your head left of the ball as your swing happens, so you're not in line as you swing. This will create man tugged shots, and wide-lefts...and exascerbate timing issues.

4. Slow down...feet are flying. With a more free swing, you will gain back what slower feet cost you in ball speed.

The good: You are balanced at the line and posting pretty well....which is much easier to work with than if you're good up until the line then fall apart.

You're not far from good mechanics, just needs cleaned up a bit.

Thanks. Everything that you just stated is what I was planning to work on tonight after watching some of Norm Dukes training videos.

[Aslan]

I have trouble saying anything about the footwork because as many of these folks will not be too shy to remind me...my footwork is equally disturbing. All I can say in response is...it's about 85% better than it used to be. I may still have a rather odd crossover step...but at least at no point during the approach are BOTH my feet off the ground!! :o

[swingset]

Thanks. Everything that you just stated is what I was planning to work on tonight after watching some of Norm Dukes training videos.

I had many of the same issues and worked hard on improving them...remember, one thing at a time!

[TotallyDefiant]

http://youtu.be/jRKIrlwopgE

Recorded a few frames tonight to give more to review. I ended up bowling a 201. My new high since getting started 2 weeks ago

[vdubtx]

In first few frames I saw timing off, essentially why you crossed over each time as you were trying to muscle the ball to catch up and pulled it. You had good carry though, but obviously can't count on that every night. :cool:

[TotallyDefiant]

In first few frames I saw timing off, essentially why you crossed over each time as you were trying to muscle the ball to catch up and pulled it. You had good carry though, but obviously can't count on that every night. :cool:

Yes sir. That is why I practice hard and seek out help to get better. Hard work and proper technique goes a very long way. Once I get the basics down I will start working harder on the release. I can be happy with a very small hook until I am consistent on the timing. TIMING TIMING TIMING. LOL

[vdubtx]

Yes sir. That is why I practice hard and seek out help to get better. Hard work and proper technique goes a very long way. Once I get the basics down I will start working harder on the release. I can be happy with a very small hook until I am consistent on the timing. TIMING TIMING TIMING. LOL

Keep at it. You have good overall foundations and form. Just a few tweaks and you will be on your way to consistency and higher scores. :cool:

[tccstudent]

I am going to do a video analysis tomorrow if there is a way to get a copy of that video I will post it.

[TotallyDefiant]

I am going to do a video analysis tomorrow if there is a way to get a copy of that video I will post it.

Guess I am a little confused what you are meaning about copy of the video?

[tccstudent]

I am going to do a video analysis tomorrow if there is a way to get a copy of that video I will post it.


Guess I am a little confused what you are meaning about copy of the video?

It is a coaching session where they put you on video so I can see what I am doing, They also check your rev rate and all that good stuff. If there is a way for me to save the video to a computer file and bring it home or email it to myself I will post it.

[Mike White]

Any tips are welcomed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW8NlW5bmyA

After a quick view, the things I see that are an issue are:

Hand positioning on the side of the ball. The shoulder, the thumb, the bridge between the fingers, and the center of the ball should all be on the same vertical plane.

The short push forward / hinge causes a short backswing. Cant tell if the back swing is limited by the closed shoulders, or that just how low the natural pendulum swing was going to stop.

The forward swing appears to be kind of forced. Evidence the turning to the right of your body during the slide, and made clear by the slide foot ending up pointed far right.

Finally because the hand position is on the outside of ball, your release position is very low in leverage. Again, the shoulder, thumb, bridge, and center of the ball should be in the same vertical plane just before the thumb exits the ball.

With your hand on the side, if your thumb comes out a little early, your fingers are going to push the ball to the left of target.

As for the feet being fast. You have to travel distance from where you start, to where you stop in the time it takes for the ball to swing back, and swing forward to the bottom.

The short push away, and back swing, makes the time to cover the distance small, so the feet have to travel fast.

I'd say work on hand position first,
Then possibly increase push away to increase backswing.
Open the shoulders if you feel the backswing is being restricted by the shoulder.
Finally try to slide with the foot pointing towards the target, not pointing towards the right wall.

[TotallyDefiant]

After a quick view, the things I see that are an issue are:

Hand positioning on the side of the ball. The shoulder, the thumb, the bridge between the fingers, and the center of the ball should all be on the same vertical plane.

The short push forward / hinge causes a short backswing. Cant tell if the back swing is limited by the closed shoulders, or that just how low the natural pendulum swing was going to stop.

The forward swing appears to be kind of forced. Evidence the turning to the right of your body during the slide, and made clear by the slide foot ending up pointed far right.

Finally because the hand position is on the outside of ball, your release position is very low in leverage. Again, the shoulder, thumb, bridge, and center of the ball should be in the same vertical plane just before the thumb exits the ball.

With your hand on the side, if your thumb comes out a little early, your fingers are going to push the ball to the left of target.

As for the feet being fast. You have to travel distance from where you start, to where you stop in the time it takes for the ball to swing back, and swing forward to the bottom.

The short push away, and back swing, makes the time to cover the distance small, so the feet have to travel fast.

I'd say work on hand position first,
Then possibly increase push away to increase backswing.
Open the shoulders if you feel the backswing is being restricted by the shoulder.
Finally try to slide with the foot pointing towards the target, not pointing towards the right wall.

I changed a few things in my swing since posting the first video. Can you review the second video that I put up. Should be on this page a couple posts down.

[TotallyDefiant]

It is a coaching session where they put you on video so I can see what I am doing, They also check your rev rate and all that good stuff. If there is a way for me to save the video to a computer file and bring it home or email it to myself I will post it.

Oh ok. I got you now.