So the time has come to increase my ball speed

[zdawg]

I have an appointment to see my coach, but that isn't for another two weeks. After a truly dismal performance in my league Friday night against the number 1 team, and an even worse performance Saturday during our bowl off, I've decided that I want to try to add some speed before my next lesson - or at least make strides in the correct direction.

So far, I've read raising the ball helps, lowering the ball helps, speeding up your feet helps, raising your backswing, etc etc. :confused::confused::confused:

Just wondering if there is anybody on this board that had this problem, and what did you do to rectify it? Just looking for some suggestions that I can work on in practice while I wait to see my coach.

[Aslan]

In the "old days" I was taught to increase or decrease speed by elevating the ball (and thus having a slightly higher backswing) or lowering the ball (thus having a lower backswing).

The problem that seems to cause many bowlers (and what I've heard more recently) is it messes with your timing. So you need to alter where you start your approach and possibly the number of steps you take to accomodate the difference in backswing timing.

One thing I learned from playing with my own speeds (trying to lower them versus raise them) is the approach adds WAY more speed than the backswing height. Someone on this site or another site posted something to the effect of 5-1 approach versus backswing. So in other words...ya wanna add speed...a longer, faster approach is the easiest way to do it. But again, timing changes come with that.

Trying to slow things down I:
- stopped "running".
- went from a 4-step to a 3-step.
- lowered the ball starting point from chin height to waist height (cutting about 45 degrees off the front and 45 degrees off the back of the swing).

Now, when I need more speed or length...I tend to make small changes to loft or I'll start the ball a little higher (chest height). I try not to mess with the approach (speed/length) unless I absolutely have to...because it throws my already imperfect timing right down the toilet.

Good luck man!

[RobLV1]

Most of the problems that I see with bowlers with insufficient ball speed are caused by late timing. Moving your feet faster is usually a bad idea as it often ends up with later timing and slower ball speed. Often the easiest cure is to shorten your first step in a four step approach, and your first two steps in a five step approach, making sure that you push the ball out on your fourth step back from the line. By getting your timing in sync, you freee up your armswing and should see and extra one to one an a half mph increase in ball speed. Have someone watch your first step. It is often 1 1/2 to two feet long. Work on getting it down to 10-12".

[zdawg]

Most of the problems that I see with bowlers with insufficient ball speed are caused by late timing. Moving your feet faster is usually a bad idea as it often ends up with later timing and slower ball speed. Often the easiest cure is to shorten your first step in a four step approach, and your first two steps in a five step approach, making sure that you push the ball out on your fourth step back from the line. By getting your timing in sync, you freee up your armswing and should see and extra one to one an a half mph increase in ball speed. Have someone watch your first step. It is often 1 1/2 to two feet long. Work on getting it down to 10-12".

Ok, I'll give that a try tomorrow Rob. When I try to move my feet quicker I find it very hard to keep my wrist from breaking back which I attribute to my body subconsciously pulling the swing - this fits in with what you're saying about quicker feet causing even later timing so that makes sense.

[zdawg]

Now, when I need more speed or length...I tend to make small changes to loft or I'll start the ball a little higher (chest height). I try not to mess with the approach (speed/length) unless I absolutely have to...because it throws my already imperfect timing right down the toilet.

Good luck man!

Yeah, timing is definitely involved with this issue, but as you got to see firsthand on Saturday even the balls I threw that looked good initially took a massive turn left due to the slow speed, I mean Brooklyn wasn't even in play on most of my shots :p

[Aslan]

Yeah, timing is definitely involved with this issue, but as you got to see firsthand on Saturday even the balls I threw that looked good initially took a massive turn left due to the slow speed, I mean Brooklyn wasn't even in play on most of my shots :p

Yeah, I agree with Rob. Speed changes are tricky because no matter HOW you decide to do them...it's going to mean a timing adjustment.

The video will be up tonight so everyone can watch it and ring in on your footwork and maybe give you better advice...but I noticed watching you that you seem to start very close to the foul line...yet have a 5-step approach. That seemed "odd" to me because when I used to stand in that position, I had to cut down to a 3-step approach or I'd be falling over the foul line, late timing, etc... I realize you're a bit shorter than me...but still, it seems like you're packing a LOT of steps into a very small area.

But...my advice is nowhere near "golden"...you've seen my "sidewinder" footwork and I noticed in the video I'm still doing that stupid "hop" that I've been trying to get rid of. I swear, if I can't break that habit, I'm wearing ankle weights to league Friday! :mad:

[zdawg]

The video will be up tonight so everyone can watch it and ring in on your footwork and maybe give you better advice...but I noticed watching you that you seem to start very close to the foul line...yet have a 5-step approach. That seemed "odd" to me because when I used to stand in that position, I had to cut down to a 3-step approach or I'd be falling over the foul line, late timing, etc... I realize you're a bit shorter than me...but still, it seems like you're packing a LOT of steps into a very small area.

But...my advice is nowhere near "golden"...you've seen my "sidewinder" footwork and I noticed in the video I'm still doing that stupid "hop" that I've been trying to get rid of. I swear, if I can't break that habit, I'm wearing ankle weights to league Friday! :mad:

Yeah this is something I haven't worked on yet, but ever since I started I noticed that I have trouble making it all the way to the foul line - often I'm about a foot back when I release - and while I'm not very tall, I've seen plenty of folks my height or even shorter than me in my league start farther back and don't have that problem.

Hopefully the video will give the more experienced bowlers on this site some ideas as to what I'm doing wrong.

[tr33frog]

For myself, if I need to add more speed I push the ball out further on my first step (4 step approach). Though I do end up struggling with timing when I do it and have to remember to pause a little bit and not run. Lately I've been really trying to get my last step in hard with a deep bend. Not sure if that makes any sense.

[Aslan]

I noticed that I have trouble making it all the way to the foul line - often I'm about a foot back when I release.

I have the opposite problem. I prefer to "settle down" my strange footwork by moving closer to the foul line and going to a short 4-step approach...but more often than not I get to the foul line WAY too soon and am "planting", almost falling over the foul line...and the ball is barely starting it's way down.

[zdawg]

So today I did a few things, added some height to my backswing letting it fall freely while starting it a tad bit higher and really focusing on making sure my timing was near perfect (after examining some recent video I noticed my swing was late). I also took a slightly longer first couple of steps but a shorter pivot/power step and increased my slide quite a bit. I also started a full foot back from where I normally do.

The result, the swing was much faster, making my feet that much faster, and I actually did have a few shots where I almost "fouled" so its gonna take some getting used to as I'm not used to crowding the foul line.

Conclusion, I think I'm on to something here, I did throw a bunch of these shots straight as the increase in speed added difficulty to my release and I want to continue to focus on staying behind the ball. Also, having a backswing higher than waist level was a different sensation than I'm used to, however I made some good progress I think on the timing aspect of the whole thing.

Unfortunately the lane I was on today didn't have one of those speed things so I can't compare it to the speed (or lack of speed) that I usually have in that house, but visually I can tell the ball was coming out much faster and the sound hitting the pins also confirmed that. So, I'm gonna continue to work on this as much as possible, and in two weeks I'll have my coach take a look and straighten out anything that needs to be fixed, but I feel like today was a major breakthrough...hopefully my progress continues

[noeymc]

here are my questions =D

are you building up speed with your feet coming to the line>?

do u do a push away or hinge

how many steps do u take and i know all dots are different from each spot but roughly how far back from the foul line do u start and how close do u finish to it

[zdawg]

here are my questions =D

are you building up speed with your feet coming to the line>?

Prior to today no, my backswing was very short and slow and I think I had my feet timed to that. Today, my feet just kind of sped up naturally after I increased my backswing (I didn't consciously speed up my footwork)


do u do a push away or hinge

Hinge


how many steps do u take and i know all dots are different from each spot but roughly how far back from the foul line do u start and how close do u finish to it

Prior to today, I started at the closest set of dots to the foul line, I'm not sure how far that is, maybe 6 or 7 feet? And I would constantly finish about a foot short. Today, I lined up about a foot farther back, as I was finishing right on the foul line which I had never really come close to before.

[tccstudent]

I would actually like to lose some ball speed. Everytime I try and slow down I lose accuracy. Right now I am working on something else so I am putting my Mach 9999 ball speed on the back burner.

[Mike White]

Prior to today no, my backswing was very short and slow and I think I had my feet timed to that. Today, my feet just kind of sped up naturally after I increased my backswing (I didn't consciously speed up my footwork)



Hinge



Prior to today, I started at the closest set of dots to the foul line, I'm not sure how far that is, maybe 6 or 7 feet? And I would constantly finish about a foot short. Today, I lined up about a foot farther back, as I was finishing right on the foul line which I had never really come close to before.

While there doesn't seem to be a specific rule about where the dots are on the approach, in almost every center I've seen, the dots on the approach are at 3 distances from from the foul line.

1) Within an inch or two from the foul line.
2) Approximately 12 feet from the foul line.
3) Approximately 15 feet from the foul line.

Knowing how far you start from the foul line is important in calculating how much to move laterally when shooting spares.

[Mike White]

In the "old days" I was taught to increase or decrease speed by elevating the ball

How many months ago was the "old days"?

I think you confused elevating the ball in your stance, with elevating the ball out onto the lane. :)

[zdawg]

While there doesn't seem to be a specific rule about where the dots are on the approach, in almost every center I've seen, the dots on the approach are at 3 distances from from the foul line.

1) Within an inch or two from the foul line.
2) Approximately 12 feet from the foul line.
3) Approximately 15 feet from the foul line.

Knowing how far you start from the foul line is important in calculating how much to move laterally when shooting spares.

I'll see if I can find out today what my normal starting distance is, I've never really considered how far it is and how that affects my game - other than the fact that I know I tend to finish my approach about a foot short of the foul line

[bowl1820]

While there doesn't seem to be a specific rule about where the dots are on the approach
Lane and Approach Markings or Designs
Lane and approach markings shall only be permitted in accordance with the following specifications:

1. Measured from the foul line, a maximum of seven guides may be embedded in or stamped
on the approach at each of the following points: 2-6 inches; 3-4 feet; 6-7 feet; 9-10 feet;
11-12 feet; and 14-15 feet. Each series of guides shall be parallel to the foul line and each
guide shall be circular in shape and shall not exceed ¾ inch in diameter.

2. At a point 6-8 feet beyond the foul line and parallel thereto, there may be embedded in
or stamped on the lane a maximum of 10 guides. Each guide shall be uniform, circular in
shape, and shall not exceed ¾ inch in diameter.

3. At a point 12-16 feet beyond the foul line, there may be embedded in or stamped on the
lane a maximum of seven targets. Each of the targets shall be uniform and may consist of
one or more dowels, darts, diamond, triangles, or rectangular designs. The overall surface
covered by each target shall not be more than 1¼ inches in width and six inches in length.
Each target must be equidistant from one another and set in a uniform pattern.

4. At a point 33-44 feet beyond the foul line, there may be a maximum of four targets. Each
target must be uniform in appearance and shall not be wider than a single board or longer
than 36 inches.

[vdubtx]

How many months ago was the "old days"?

I think you confused elevating the ball in your stance, with elevating the ball out onto the lane. :)

Think "Old days" is 6 months ago to Aslan.

[bdtrob300]

This is The most common misconception that I've come across when talking with casual bowlers is that a higher backswing will equal more speed. I always tell them that your feet make the ball speed and the easiest way to increase your sped at approach is to drop the ball into your backswing earlier. It makes you move your feet faster without thinking about it.

[Aslan]

How many months ago was the "old days"?

I think you confused elevating the ball in your stance, with elevating the ball out onto the lane. :)


Think "Old days" is 6 months ago to Aslan.

It's a relatively new invention called Physics which relies on this strange new hippie concept of "gravity". I think they made a movie about it.

IF...a ball is at the end of an arm....and that ball/arm are acting as a "pendulum"...starting the ball higher (before allowing gravity to act on the ball) will create greater momentum into the backswing....making the backswing higher...and thus gravity acts the same way on the downswing, creating more momentum and ultimately ball speed. Now to get super technical you'll note that the backswing momentum is greater than the downswing momentum...because gravity is acting AGAINST the ball as it is in the backswing. So in a "true frictionless pendulum", the ball should start out slightly higher than where you want it to be at the top of your backswing.

However, that assumes it's a true pendulum with minimal (if any friction) applied to the swing. The unfortunate reality is...even though bowlers will swear up and down they don't "muscle" the ball and are just using the "pendulum"....you'll see virtually every bowler muscling the ball at one or more parts of their swing. In order to release at the same point at a foul line..."muscling" becomes necessary UNLESS your footwork and timing are SO REPEATABLE that you can simply rely on gravity to deliver the ball each time. Actually, ANY TIME you see a ball at the top of a backswing and it's HIGHER than where it started at the beginning of the approach....it was "muscled" to reach that height. Why? Becuase if that WAS NOT the case...a playground swingset would be the most dangerous thing in the world...as children start swinging and very quickly start wrapping themselves around the horizonal support because gravity is not limiting them. In addition, the shoulder joint is not "frictionless" (by a long shot) so your shoulder will naturally counteract the momentum to some degree.

Realize, the above does NOT apply to bowling in outer space (lack of gravity).

BUT...to answer Mr. White....with all things held constant, a weight on the end of a stick or rope, when raised to a higher level, will have a greater momentum, which will lead to a greater speed. It's rather simple Physics/Newton's Laws kinda stuff. If you're still not convinced....try this simple experiment at home.

1) Find a solid horizontal beam or pole.
2) Tie a string to a heavy object. It's best if the object at the end of the string is just below belt level when hanging directly in front of you.
3) Have a friend or spouse or sibling pull the weight slightly away from you and then release it. It should bump into your "nether regions" very lightly.
4) Now have the same person hold the weight as his as they can, and THEN let it go. You'll probably note a MUCH higher level of discomfort than the previous attempt.
5) Continue the test, doing that over and over again, until you pass out or the other person dies of laughter.

ETA: FOOTWORK (as I mentioned below) I have "heard" is 4-5 times more effective at increasing/decreasing speed than is changing initial ball height.

[Mudpuppy]

Aslan cliff notes stardate 05MAR2014: I have no idea I am just spewing random words I just chuck the ball like it's mashed taters at a food fight

[Aslan]

Aslan cliff notes stardate 05MAR2014: I have no idea I am just spewing random words I just chuck the ball like it's mashed taters at a food fight

I'm trying to teach "age challenged" men physics. I realize Mudpuppy believes "less is more", but it's a complicated concept to limit to a sentence or 2.

[Mudpuppy]

I have been nominated not once, but twice as official cliff notes curator - therefore my interpretation is infallible

[Aslan]

I have been nominated not once, but twice as official cliff notes curator - therefore my interpretation is infallible

I've nominated you as moderator...multiple times. However, I've also nominated Mr. T., Spuds McKenzie, Nick Nolte, and Max Headroom....and have gotten no response on any of the nominations.

[tccstudent]

Aslan cliff notes stardate 05MAR2014: I have no idea I am just spewing random words I just chuck the ball like it's mashed taters at a food fight

mashed taters at a food fight that is legen wait for it dary

[zdawg]

This is The most common misconception that I've come across when talking with casual bowlers is that a higher backswing will equal more speed. I always tell them that your feet make the ball speed and the easiest way to increase your sped at approach is to drop the ball into your backswing earlier. It makes you move your feet faster without thinking about it.

Actually the reason why I need a higher backswing is because in addition to it being WAY too short, its WAY too slow. Speeding up my feet with the same slow and low backswing causes me to pull the short/slow backswing to match my increased foot speed, and screws up my release among other thing (although the ball speed does increase). While my coach said I need it to be at least higher than belt/waist level (which is wasn't anywhere close), I'd like it to be a bit higher closer to shoulder level.

So, yes my foot speed needs to increase, but I can't do it with an extremely short and extremely slow backswing, increasing the backswing height and speed to match faster footwork seems to me to be the most logical solution at least the way I see it.

And I probably should add, when I'm talking about slow speed, I'm talking about I throw it a good 6-7 mph SLOWER than most people in my league. I was watching the senior leagues today, and while a number of them had higher backswings than me, I noticed some with backswings that were similar to mine and the two main things I noticed were: 1) EXTREMELY slow foot speed to match their backswing, and 2) EXTREMELY slow ball speed.

[bowl1820]

And I probably should add, when I'm talking about slow speed, I'm talking about I throw it a good 6-7 mph SLOWER than most people in my league. I was watching the senior leagues today, and while a number of them had higher backswings than me, I noticed some with backswings that were similar to mine and the two main things I noticed were: 1) EXTREMELY slow foot speed to match their backswing, and 2) EXTREMELY slow ball speed.

Watching you in the video, your overall ball speed looked to be around 14mph.

One thing I noticed is Your carrying the ball some before starting it into your swing, IMO if you can get it started sooner you should get a speed increase.

The delay in getting the ball started is where your losing some of the speed your generating with your approach.

Also increase your forward tilt slightly

[zdawg]

Watching you in the video, your overall ball speed looked to be around 14mph.

One thing I noticed is Your carrying the ball some before starting it into your swing, IMO if you can get it started sooner you should get a speed increase.

The delay in getting the ball started is where your losing some of the speed your generating with your approach.

Also increase your forward tilt slightly

Thanks, yeah it was a bit faster that day because we got in right as they were oiling the lanes so we were the first on them - I think the monitor had me at 12-13 most of the day, while Mike and Aslan tended to vary from 17-20ish...still, the amount of hook I was getting I wasn't able to control and that's a used entry level ball (Ebonite Cyclone).

I appreciate the timing mention, I can see that now when I look at it - its funny the video I posted back in Nov my timing seemed about right so that's a bad habit I picked up somewhere along the way.

The spine tilt is something I'll keep in mind when I practice as well, early on I had a more traditional coach insist that my spine stay straight so I'm trying to look for video to watch advanced bowlers to see how they go about it, as in which steps they start to tilt forward.

Thanks for all the advice so far everybody!

[Aslan]

- I think the monitor had me at 12-13 most of the day, while Mike and Aslan tended to vary from 17-20ish...

If I recall, Mike had the highest ball speed at 17.1-19.2mph. My speed varied from about 14-16.9mph. And zdawg was in the 11.2-13.7mph range most of the day. Mike (being the better bowler) seemed to have less variation in his ball speed from shot to shot.

Mike and I disagree a bit about how equipment plays a role in what we were seeing last weekend (see post tournament discussion). But I think that with Mike using one of the biggest hooking balls currently available (Mastermind) and zdawg bowling with such a low ball speed...I had an advantage because my way of throwing and my weaker equipment meant that the lane conditions didn't affect me as much. If you're lofting it 2-10 feet...playing the 9-board...symmetric core...the only "disadvantage" I had was my ball's coverstock (solid/matte).

The simpler (Mudpuppy Cliff Notes) version is:
- Lane conditions affect you more IF:
1) Your ball is in contact with the lane for a greater amount of the 60ft travel distance.
2) Your ball is going slow (so not to skid over lane surfaces).
3) Your ball has an assymetric core or high differential (making it less predictable once it experiences dryness).
4) Your ball has a lower RG or a less polished finish (ball will want to react to the lane surface sooner).
5) You are a higher rev player (making ball turn more drastically when it finds dryness).

I was actually shocked that zdawg was using a Cyclone. His "break" in front of the pin deck...was DRASTIC....it made me think he had some really "high hooking" ball. But it wasn't. The Cyclone specs (diff normal, RG normal, polished surface) would make me think the ball wouldn't react much to the lanes. It has a lower PerfectScale rating than my Frantic that I was using as a spare ball.

BUT....where zdawg was experiencing problems WASN'T the ball (#3 and #4)...it was the speed and contact with the lane surface (#1 and #2). Even a person throwing a urethane ball can get 20 boards of hook...if they are throwing it 6-7mph.

Thats my amateur attempt at analysis. The pro guys on here can feel free to correct me if I am misunderstanding. I've been working hard (outside the lanes) on figuring out bowling ball specs and what they mean and how it affects the ball/game. I think that knowledge is crucial if I ever give in and get an "arsenal".