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View Full Version : Ball Surfaces Re: Grit on a ball



bowl1820
03-14-2014, 10:44 AM
Here's a interesting post made by Charlest over at BBE about ball surfaces with some good info.


Balls are either sanded to make them dull and hook early or polished to make them skid longer before they hook.

Sandpaper, the original abrasive used on bowling balls, is graded with a grit level indicating the roughness of the sandpaper. So if a ball is sanded with a sandpaper that has a grit level of 500 grit, the ball is said to have a grit level of 500. Balls are normally sanded from 320 grit to 4000 grit. All other abrasives, including Scotch-Brite pads, Abralon Pad, Siaair pads and Abranet pads, alll have grit levels associated with them, from 320 to 4000 grit. The higher the number the finer or smoother the grit level is. So higher number will allow a ball to skid further than lower (or rougher) grit levels.

Normally balls are sanded with pads that have progressively finer and finer grit levels. So one might start with a 500 grit pad, then go to a 1000 grit pad then to a 2000 grit pad. Some might take it finer to 4000 grit.

More recently, some balls are sanded with a very rough initial pad, say 500 grit, then sanded with a very fine 4000 grit pad. As opposed to a more normall 500/1000/2000/4000 sequence which is finer than the 500/4000 sequence, the 500/4000 sequence will not go as long, but will have a harder turn at the breakpoint. Some manufacturers,instead of sanding 360/500/1000/2000will do this sequence: 360/2000. The 360/2000 vs. the 360/500/1000/2000 will have a similar relationship that 500/4000 has to 500/1000/2000/4000.

All abrasive pads wear with use. That means as you use a pad, the grit that does the sanding or abrasion gets smaller and finer, so that the pad becomes a finer grit level. So a 1000 grit pad becomes 1500 grit, becomes 2000 grit , becomes maybe as much as 4000 grit with use over time. The more you use it and hard your press when using it, the more quickly it changes grit. There's no way to measure (of which I am aware) what grit it has become.

An example of this is the 4000 grit pad which is fairly sensitive being the smoothest and finest. It takes abour 3 - 5 use before a 4000 grit pad becomes 5000 or 5500 grit. O can easily tell this when using such a used pad because the balls shines up and does not have that dull or matte look/appearance. That's when you know to throw that pad away and redo the ball with a new 4000 grit pad. Other grit levels are harder to determine. Only experience and a watchful eye will help you see what it happening.


When a ball is polished, it will have a certain grit level before the polish is applied. (Polish is basically a micro-abrasive that makes the ball shine because it takes the ball to as super fine grit level, usually above the 5000 grit range. Most balls are polished using a spinner. Sanding can also be done with a spinner. In any case, most balls which have a base grit level of 1500 or 2000 grit, when polished is applied, becomes very shiny and are usually in that 5000+ grit range. If you start with a lower grit, 500 or 1000 and apply polish with a spinner, LIGHTLY and with a small amount of polish you can get a ball in the 3000 - 4000 grit range.

You can also apply polish by hand over almost any base grit level and get an intermediate result, between 2000 grit and 5000 grit. Only experience with eye and using the ball will tell you if its gotten to where you need/want to be.

One of the crossover points between sanding and polishing is the 4000 grit dull or matte finish vs. the 1500/2000 grit + spinner applied polish. AT these stages, the same ball, drilled the same, thrown by the same person, on the same oil pattern, will handle the same amount of oil, with the 4000 grit dulll ball hooking slightly earlier, having slightly less backend, and slightly more overall hook and handle slightly more carrydown. The polished ball will go slightly longer, have a slightly sharper backend, hook slightly less overall, and be slightly more susceptible to carrydown.

vdubtx
03-14-2014, 12:24 PM
Great info since I just got a spinner and all of my sanding discs I ordered should be in the mail today. Will be testing over the weekend with it to get more comfortable with surface changes. Worried about messing up a ball.

I understand that you work from a lower grit to higher, but, when a ball like my Hammer First Blood says the out of box surface is 500/500/500/1500 what does that mean exactly?

Mike White
03-14-2014, 12:59 PM
Rather than rely on the eye, I went with this option.

Jayhawk Ball Surface Scanner (http://www.shop.jayhawkbowling.com/Jayhawk-Ball-Surface-Scanner-15-7000.htm)

bowl1820
03-14-2014, 12:59 PM
Great info since I just got a spinner and all of my sanding discs I ordered should be in the mail today. Will be testing over the weekend with it to get more comfortable with surface changes. Worried about messing up a ball.

I understand that you work from a lower grit to higher, but, when a ball like my Hammer First Blood says the out of box surface is 500/500/500/1500 what does that mean exactly?

The OOB of the First Blood according to BTM is 500 / 500 / 500 / 1500 Abranet w/ Power House Factory Finish Polish

This basically means you would do the surface 3 times with a 500 grit pad then next with a 1500 Abranet pad then next finish with the PH polish.

vdubtx
03-14-2014, 02:48 PM
Thanks Bowl1820, thought that is what it meant but not 100% on it.

MICHAEL
03-14-2014, 03:02 PM
The OOB of the First Blood according to BTM is 500 / 500 / 500 / 1500 Abranet w/ Power House Factory Finish Polish

This basically means you would do the surface 3 times with a 500 grit pad then next with a 1500 Abranet pad then next finish with the PH polish.

Does that mean 4 sides, 3 times with the 500? If surly doesn't mean do 3 sides of the ball with 500, and then the finale side with 1500.....

If it does mean do 4 sides, (3 times with 500 ) what is the purpose of doing the ball what amounts to 12 times!!
(using the 4sides, per, 500)??


I don't get the 500, 3 times......

bowl1820
03-14-2014, 03:23 PM
Does that mean 4 sides, 3 times with the 500? If surly doesn't mean do 3 sides of the ball with 500, and then the finale side with 1500.....

If it does mean do 4 sides, (3 times with 500 ) what is the purpose of doing the ball what amounts to 12 times!!
(using the 4sides, per, 500)??


I don't get the 500, 3 times......

I go with doing the 6 sides method,

2 sides @500, 2 sides @500, 2 sides @500 then 1500 and polish.

MICHAEL
03-14-2014, 06:45 PM
I go with doing the 6 sides method,

2 sides @500, 2 sides @500, 2 sides @500 then 1500 and polish.

OK,,, thanks Al!! Its all staring to sink in!! Back to my bowling ball Lab!!!! Work to be done !! :D

larry mc
03-14-2014, 11:21 PM
wow way 2 much for me , i just let my proshop guy do it , luckily we r buddies and he does it for free

tccstudent
03-15-2014, 03:20 PM
When I was talking to my proshop guy yesterday this was one of the topics brought up by someone else.
If you are doing a storm ball and wanting to bring it back to OOB go 360,500, then jump to final finish. Storm does not step up all the way like the other comapnies do
Their reason is something to with the resin the use in their balls.

bowl1820
03-15-2014, 03:58 PM
When I was talking to my proshop guy yesterday this was one of the topics brought up by someone else.
If you are doing a storm ball and wanting to bring it back to OOB go 360,500, then jump to final finish. Storm does not step up all the way like the other comapnies do

That's not exactly right, take a look here at the Storm resurfacing guide:

http://www.stormbowling.com/docs/Resurfacing_Guide_2012.pdf

Which show the steps used to return a ball to the OOB surfaces.

then read the Possum to Performance article by storm here:

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/15601-From-Possum-to-Performance-The-Elusive-Out-of-Box-Reaction

The "360,500, then jump to final finish" sounds more like something based on this article.


Their reason is something to with the resin the use in their balls.

It's not the type of resin used, it's using the rights grits in the right order. To create the right peaks and valleys in the surface to generate the right amount of friction.

tccstudent
03-15-2014, 04:16 PM
That's not exactly right, take a look here at the Storm resurfacing guide:

http://www.stormbowling.com/docs/Resurfacing_Guide_2012.pdf

Which show the steps used to return a ball to the OOB surfaces.

then read the Possum to Performance article by storm here:

http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/15601-From-Possum-to-Performance-The-Elusive-Out-of-Box-Reaction

The "360,500, then jump to final finish" sounds more like something based on this article.



It's not the type of resin used, it's using the rights grits in the right order. To create the right peaks and valleys in the surface to generate the right amount of friction.

The context of the conversation was more based on how Storm processes their balls
so he was saying after the mold the 360,500, then the jump to the oob surface
He was saying that if you follow those same steps that Storm intially used to prep the balls for market. You will be able to get much closer to the desired OOB reaction

vdubtx
03-15-2014, 04:32 PM
Bowl, when taking my First Blood to OOB do I only use 500 3 times on all 6 sides and then 1500 with final Power house Factory Finish? Or do I start at like 180&360 then 500 and 1500?

vdubtx
03-15-2014, 04:41 PM
Also, is it better to sand dry or keep the pads wet and rinse off between sides?

bowl1820
03-15-2014, 05:25 PM
He was saying that if you follow those same steps that Storm intially used to prep the balls for market. You will be able to get much closer to the desired OOB reaction

If you could prep a ball the same way the factory does, yes you would get closer to the OOB surface. But you can't that's the problem.

Bowler's and ProShops don't have the same equipment and abrasive materials that the factory doe's when surfacing balls.

Most just have spinners, that's why they came up with the spinner guidelines for resurfacing balls. Now a Haus machine or Cook sphere machine or storm surface factory coukd be closer but they are still not same.

If you have a ball with a factory 1500 polished OOB (which a lot of Storm balls do) and sand it 360/500 then direct to a 1500 polish, that's not going to be the same as the factory surface. that will be a lot more texture than the org. OOB.

bowl1820
03-15-2014, 05:32 PM
Bowl, when taking my First Blood to OOB do I only use 500 3 times on all 6 sides and then 1500 with final Power house Factory Finish? Or do I start at like 180&360 then 500 and 1500?

I would start with 500,
2 sides @500, 2 sides @500, 2 sides @500 then 1500 and polish.

the only time I would use a 180/360 was if I was doing a full resurface and had to remove a lot of material to get out some deep scratches , gouges etc or if a OOB called for it.

bowl1820
03-15-2014, 05:41 PM
Also, is it better to sand dry or keep the pads wet and rinse off between sides?

personally I wet sand, it helps keep the pads from loading up, keeps them cool and keeps the dust down.