A poll on what type of bowling alley you want

[MICHAEL]

SOMEONE THAT KNOWS HOW TO SET A POLL UP HOW ABOUT ONE WITH THIS:

1. A real bowling alley where oil, and applications are done on a regular basses, including just before EVERY league

2. Cosmic style bowling, no regard to oil even on league days, black lighting, rails up for who cares, bounce it off the rails as much as possible, loud music, beautiful women in go, go cages dancing and singing along to the music,,, lots of expensive exotic food, and drinks!

Lets let them know,,, THE POWERS THAT BE, what we want!!

Can someone set this poll up,,,, or does it really not matter anymore,,,, is league bowling a dying species?? Is it doomed to go the directions of the Diana- sores!

This may be are LAST CHANCE to let the owners know that we want the SPORT, not the damn fun time stuff!!!!! We are not there to have a good time,,, we want bowling to be a sport, not a PIN-BALL-Machine! Iceman

[Mike White]

I think it's business people who see league bowling as a profitable endeavor, that are the dying species.

[MICHAEL]

I think it's business people who see league bowling as a profitable endeavor, that are the dying species.

WHY,,,, why is it dying? Baseball and Football have been around for a long time, and stronger then ever? Why is it that the general public don't find bowing leagues relevant anymore??

Is it the middle class is disappearing, and money is tight? If that were the case why are movie theaters doing well with ticket at over 10 bucks?

I need REASONS,,, how can ICEMAN attack this puzzle if he is clueless as to the reason for the huge decline?

Is it the GMO's we are being sold at the stores,,,, ??? flu shots with the mercury??? I don't do either??? I just don't get the reason for the decline?

Is it because so many people are making only the minimum wage now, which is just over 7 bucks an hour, and that the average age of those minimum wage works is climbing and is now 29!! Job's good paying ones all going to China ect???

I know for sure when bowling was in its hay-day, this country was just out of WW2 and we had a STRONG huge middle class.... that middle class has been, (just like league bowling diminishing year by year),,,,,,Is this the end time????
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n550/melou-choute/gifs/cryingendofmylife.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/melou-choute/media/gifs/cryingendofmylife.gif.html)

[Mike White]

WHY,,,, why is it dying? Baseball and Football have been around for a long time, and stronger then ever? Why is it that the general public don't find bowing leagues relevant anymore??

Is it the middle class is disappearing, and money is tight? If that were the case why are movie theaters doing well with ticket at over 10 bucks?

I need REASONS,,, how can ICEMAN attack this puzzle if he is clueless as to the reason for the huge decline?

Is it the GMO's we are being sold at the stores,,,, ??? flu shots with the mercury??? I don't do either??? I just don't get the reason for the decline?

Is it because so many people are making only the minimum wage now, which is just over 7 bucks an hour, and that the average age of those minimum wage works is climbing and is now 29!! Job's good paying ones all going to China ect???

A big part of it is the commitment. Many leagues are 30+ weeks long.

You don't have to commit to watching a movie in the theater every week, at a specific day and time.

People don't know if they are even going to have a job for the next 30 weeks.

The "job creators" are really squeezing the workers for every last dime.

And there are a lot fewer blue collar 9 to 5 type jobs.

Thats the issues from the bowlers perspective.

From the owners perspective, there are more profitable ways to use their money / land space.

As for the heart of the problem, I blame it on Soccer, and the infamous Soccer Moms.

With less youngsters bowling in youth leagues, there are less people "graduating" into adult leagues.

[MICHAEL]

One of the reasons I dislike most people is the fact that they don't bowl league!!!! They are KILLING the Sport I love! Do what you got to do, find a way and Join a league!! Help Make America Strong Again!!'

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz360/tonygman77/uncle-sam.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/tonygman77/media/uncle-sam.jpg.html)

[RobLV1]

The thing that we fail to do to get new bowlers is to teach them how to bowl. I did an interview with Mark Baker a couple of years ago and he said something very surprising to me. He said that the most important thing that we, as coaches, can do for bowling is to teach people to break 100. He went on to say that once a bowler can break a hundred consistently, we have them. Until we do that, they will probably never join a league or otherwise see bowling as anything but an occasional recreational activity.

I agree 100%!

[J Anderson]

WHY,,,, why is it dying? Baseball and Football have been around for a long time, and stronger then ever? Why is it that the general public don't find bowing leagues relevant anymore??

Is it the middle class is disappearing, and money is tight? If that were the case why are movie theaters doing well with ticket at over 10 bucks?

I need REASONS,,, how can ICEMAN attack this puzzle if he is clueless as to the reason for the huge decline?

Is it the GMO's we are being sold at the stores,,,, ??? flu shots with the mercury??? I don't do either??? I just don't get the reason for the decline?

Is it because so many people are making only the minimum wage now, which is just over 7 bucks an hour, and that the average age of those minimum wage works is climbing and is now 29!! Job's good paying ones all going to China ect???

I know for sure when bowling was in its hay-day, this country was just out of WW2 and we had a STRONG huge middle class.... that middle class has been, (just like league bowling diminishing year by year),,,,,,Is this the end time????
http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n550/melou-choute/gifs/cryingendofmylife.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/melou-choute/media/gifs/cryingendofmylife.gif.html)

I think it's just another symptom of the moral decline in the economic leadership of the U.S.

Business schools do not educate their students to lead. They train them to manage their employees. Every decision is made with maximizing the quarterly profit as the deciding factor. Workers are just tools; it doesn't matter how badly you treat them as long as the produce X percent more than their pay and benefits. Unfortunately the cost of this mistreatment doesn't show up as a line item on the company balance sheet. Instead the cost is shunted off to society at large, both in taxes and a lessened quality of life.

[Mudpuppy]

It's easy - the Virtual Bowling Tour is going to save bowling BUT y'all need to JOIN NOW. Without your support you can jibber jabber all day long and just watch bowling be a distant memory buried in the annals of some dusty history book.

[fsbjcm]

The thing that we fail to do to get new bowlers is to teach them how to bowl. I did an interview with Mark Baker a couple of years ago and he said something very surprising to me. He said that the most important thing that we, as coaches, can do for bowling is to teach people to break 100. He went on to say that once a bowler can break a hundred consistently, we have them. Until we do that, they will probably never join a league or otherwise see bowling as anything but an occasional recreational activity.

I agree 100%!

That's how I got into golf years ago. Once I broke 100 that was it. Then it was breaking 90,80,70. Then I finally broke 70, and lost interest haha. Once I bowl a 300/800 might move on to archery or basket weaving or something.

[Aslan]

topless...topless....topless..

Wait! There's only 2 choices!! Thats not a "poll". Not to mention, everyone hear is a bowler....which cosmic bowlers are not...thus they are not here...thus we already know what the answer will be.

Problem solved.

[SilverFear]

topless...topless....topless.


Topless bowling? hmmm... mayyyyybe.

wait... I'm thinking about some of the bowlers in my leagues... nevermind. I don't want to see topless bowling.

[classygranny]

Topless bowling? hmmm... mayyyyybe.

wait... I'm thinking about some of the bowlers in my leagues... nevermind. I don't want to see topless bowling.

hum...I'm thinking about some of the men bowlers in my leagues....also, nevermind, I don't want to see topless bowling either!

[Aslan]

hum...I'm thinking about some of the men bowlers in my leagues....also, nevermind, I don't want to see topless bowling either!

Yeah...there's already too much crackage from the male contingent...I agree no thanks on that.

[rv driver]

Instead of having another glow-light rock-n-bowl session, maybe we should offer FREE coaching classes for kids and teens (and adults, too, while we're at it). People really don't wanna go bowling and look stoopid in front of other people. It's not fun -- it's embarrassing. There's a mystique about bowling -- a secret knowledge kind of thing that serves to help accomplished bowlers form their "bowling club of players," but also serves to keep the uninitiated out. If more people had the knowledge and the technique, more people would have more fun bowling.

Also, not every accomplished bowler likes leagues. Why should the league bowlers get all the special attention? All that does is serve the purposes of elitism that serve to keep the "uninitiated" out. And then we scream about nobody being interested. The goal shouldn't be "get everyone into a league." The goal should be "get everyone interested in bowling."

[crimsoneyes]

Instead of having another glow-light rock-n-bowl session, maybe we should offer FREE coaching classes for kids and teens (and adults, too, while we're at it). People really don't wanna go bowling and look stoopid in front of other people. It's not fun -- it's embarrassing. There's a mystique about bowling -- a secret knowledge kind of thing that serves to help accomplished bowlers form their "bowling club of players," but also serves to keep the uninitiated out. If more people had the knowledge and the technique, more people would have more fun bowling.

Also, not every accomplished bowler likes leagues. Why should the league bowlers get all the special attention? All that does is serve the purposes of elitism that serve to keep the "uninitiated" out. And then we scream about nobody being interested. The goal shouldn't be "get everyone into a league." The goal should be "get everyone interested in bowling."

League bowlers should get special attention IMO because of the lengthy commitment to the house. the lineage that goes to the proprietor and its a consistent income. One thing I wish that one of my local houses would do is a deal for league bowlers (a discount or something) to get them to come in over the summer. not very many people here bowl over the summer. I actually bowl at a different house because they do 99 cent games on tuesdays all summer. i can go eat and have a couple drinks and bowl for under 20 bucks.

[rv driver]

League bowlers should get special attention IMO because of the lengthy commitment to the house. the lineage that goes to the proprietor and its a consistent income. One thing I wish that one of my local houses would do is a deal for league bowlers (a discount or something) to get them to come in over the summer. not very many people here bowl over the summer. I actually bowl at a different house because they do 99 cent games on tuesdays all summer. i can go eat and have a couple drinks and bowl for under 20 bucks.
Well, of course they should! Just not all the special attention.

[Aslan]

The goal shouldn't be "get everyone into a league." The goal should be "get everyone interested in bowling."

Disagree. What you're missing is the difference between sport and casual bowling. Sport bowling is dying. Sport bowling is what needs to be saved. Sport bowling begins in sanctioned leagues at sanctioned centers.

The other side of bowling is "casual" bowling. Casual bowling is all well and good...but it's not enough to support a center and can be very erratic. Getting more people into casual bowling won't fix the problem...it's only usefull to supplement league bowling and maximize profits. It's sport bowling where 60-70% of the center's income is generated and it's sports bowling that leads to more interest in the game, more sponsors, and a better pro circuit.

I'm not saying "discourage" casual bowlers. But if you can convince those casual bowlers to take it a bit mroe seriously and transfer over to the league side of things...now you have a steady customer and a steady source of income. Bowlmor and Main Street and all those places seem to think you can keep an alley open on just casual white collar folks coming out and throwing a plastic ball around a couple games while having a few drinks during happy hour. But in most markets, on most nights, those type of people are few and far between. You're competing with sports bars and movie theatres and every other entertainment venue/activity.

But if you can hook them on the "sport"...there's very few sports available to middle aged non-atheletic people where they can excel. Golf? Maybe a softball team? Maybe soccer for those with Euro/latino roots? Maybe a YMCA basketball league? Maybe beach volleyball if you're on the beach? But bowling ANYONE can do...and they can usually do it fairly well with only a small learning curve. All those other sports mentioned take some level of physical ability. Even biking or running takes some level of fitness. Bowling can be done by anyone at any age. THAT is it's inherenet advantage.

If you lose ONE league bowler...how many casual bowlers does it take to replace their annual income? (doing quick math)....22. You lose ONE league bowler...it takes 22 casual bowlers to replace him/her. THAT is why you focus on growing and keeping leagues vs. casual bowlers. And that is a conservative guess since I didn't factor in equipment. A casual bowler doesn't buy shoes, balls, bags, towels, shirts, etc...

[Aslan]

Here's a great idea to increase league participation...

Day Care centers.

What if? WHAT IF?

What if to attract couples to bowling leagues, the bowling center offered free child care during league play? How many couples fail to join a league because it's too hard to get a babysitter? Or too expensive to join a league AND pay a babysitter? How many couples with a toddler would like a "break" for a few hours on a weeknight evening?

You want to grow leagues AND increase female bowling participation?? There ya go.

How many centers could instantly fill a midday league of stay at home moms if they made it a sort of "play date" where the moms all bowl and visit while all the kiddies are cared for in a little day care center for 2-4 hours??

[circlecity]

THAT is why you focus on growing and keeping leagues vs. casual bowlers. And that is a conservative guess since I didn't factor in equipment. A casual bowler doesn't buy shoes, balls, bags, towels, shirts, etc...

Very true about equipment. During open bowling pro shops are a ghost town. Get them in a league and their going to want their own ball, shoes, etc...

[rv driver]

But if you can hook them on the "sport"...
This right here is the crux of the matter for me, and the reason why we should continue to focus on the casual bowler: If you can hook them on the sport. Where do sport bowlers come from? It's all right; you can say it: From casual bowlers. If you ostracize the casual bowler, league bowling will die from attrition. You've got to nurture (not ignore) the seed so it can grow into a plant. I agree that lanes make $$$ on league players, but you've got to grow those leagues from somewhere. Kids get interested in baseball by watching it on TV, by attending games, by getting into the baseball "world." Those kids ultimately play pee-wee baseball and little league, and grow up to be pro players. Problem with bowling is that there are few bowling games on TV, no games to watch live, and the "world" of bowling is driven -- not by spectator activity, but by participation. If you don't provide real opportunities for participation, they won't get hooked. That's why you don't give all the attention to league bowlers.

[Mudpuppy]

Here's a great idea to increase league participation...

Day Care centers.

What if? WHAT IF?

What if to attract couples to bowling leagues, the bowling center offered free child care during league play? How many couples fail to join a league because it's too hard to get a babysitter? Or too expensive to join a league AND pay a babysitter? How many couples with a toddler would like a "break" for a few hours on a weeknight evening?

You want to grow leagues AND increase female bowling participation?? There ya go.

How many centers could instantly fill a midday league of stay at home moms if they made it a sort of "play date" where the moms all bowl and visit while all the kiddies are cared for in a little day care center for 2-4 hours??

Or cheaper idea just give them a box of condoms at the end of the league so they won't need daycare. I have 5 kids and I am trying very hard to improve the gene pool - all these other people need to stop messing it up.

[Aslan]

RV- You're missing the point.

Casual Bowling does not = sport bowling

Go to any open bowling night and watch young adults throwing balls all crazy into bumpers and laughing and drinking like fools. They have ZERO desire to bowl. It is a joke to them. The worse they do, the more popular they feel. They are not "bowlers"...they are "drunks" who are using a bowling alley as a meeting place. These people will NEVER become league bowlers...SPORT bowlers. If they do, they'll bowl thumbless and quit after one season because it's not that fun to suck when people don't laugh and celebrate it.

Sport bowling is more serious. It's still fun. It's still a great 2-4 hours of drinking and laughing. But most of what is done during cosmic bowling would not only be not allowed and a violation of league rules...but would be frowned upon by fellow bowlers.

The problem you're missing is that sport bowlers don't really develop from casual bowlers. Thats one of the HUGE problems with the sport as a whole. There's no "avenue" to get people interested in the SPORT. And celebrating "casual bowling"...does nothing to help that other than convince centers like AMF that they should raise menu prices, expand their bar selection, reduce their hours, lessen league benefits, and start cosmic bowling earlier each night. Then those centers lose leagues...they lose 60-70% of their income...and they close because they can't get a steady flow of white collar casual folks to consistently show up each night.

[rv driver]

RV- You're missing the point.

Casual Bowling does not = sport bowling

Go to any open bowling night and watch young adults throwing balls all crazy into bumpers and laughing and drinking like fools. They have ZERO desire to bowl. It is a joke to them. The worse they do, the more popular they feel. They are not "bowlers"...they are "drunks" who are using a bowling alley as a meeting place. These people will NEVER become league bowlers...SPORT bowlers. If they do, they'll bowl thumbless and quit after one season because it's not that fun to suck when people don't laugh and celebrate it.

Sport bowling is more serious. It's still fun. It's still a great 2-4 hours of drinking and laughing. But most of what is done during cosmic bowling would not only be not allowed and a violation of league rules...but would be frowned upon by fellow bowlers.

The problem you're missing is that sport bowlers don't really develop from casual bowlers. Thats one of the HUGE problems with the sport as a whole. There's no "avenue" to get people interested in the SPORT. And celebrating "casual bowling"...does nothing to help that other than convince centers like AMF that they should raise menu prices, expand their bar selection, reduce their hours, lessen league benefits, and start cosmic bowling earlier each night. Then those centers lose leagues...they lose 60-70% of their income...and they close because they can't get a steady flow of white collar casual folks to consistently show up each night.
I'm not talking about the drunken college boys and rednecks. I'm talking about families and kids. you're absolutely right. The group you mention will never turn into serious bowlers. But kids might if they see their parents enjoying the game and teaching them to enjoy the game. These people are casual bowlers, as well. And they certainly are the ones who turn into serious bowlers.