Please critique my form!

[shadowshocker]

I know my balance arm is a little wonky, but what else can I fix?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXwl_bfv0VU

[RobLV1]

There are two things that immediately jump out at me, though having only the one angle is limiting on how much I can see:

1. You seem to be pushing the ball away on the third step of your five step approach. While having only the one angle prevents me from seeing if this is creating late timing at the line, using what is, in effect, a three step approach will cause you to muscle your armswing which is evident on a couple of very errant shots. Regardless of how many steps a bowler chooses to take, bowling is based on the last four steps before reaching the foul line. I think that if you can learn to push the ball out with your second step, you will notice an immediate difference in accuracy and consistency.

2. In terms of keeping your hand behind the ball, the shot that really jumped out at me was when you threw your spare ball at the five-ten split. Your hand stayed in a very good position throughout the shot. This leads me to believe that you are trying to make the ball hook on your strike shot. With modern bowling balls, less is really more. The more we "try" to make them hook, the less they hook. Conversely, the less we try to make them hook, the more the balls built-in strength takes over, and the more the ball hooks.

Rob Mautner

[shadowshocker]

There are two things that immediately jump out at me, though having only the one angle is limiting on how much I can see:

1. You seem to be pushing the ball away on the third step of your five step approach. While having only the one angle prevents me from seeing if this is creating late timing at the line, using what is, in effect, a three step approach will cause you to muscle your armswing which is evident on a couple of very errant shots. Regardless of how many steps a bowler chooses to take, bowling is based on the last four steps before reaching the foul line. I think that if you can learn to push the ball out with your second step, you will notice an immediate difference in accuracy and consistency.

2. In terms of keeping your hand behind the ball, the shot that really jumped out at me was when you threw your spare ball at the five-ten split. Your hand stayed in a very good position throughout the shot. This leads me to believe that you are trying to make the ball hook on your strike shot. With modern bowling balls, less is really more. The more we "try" to make them hook, the less they hook. Conversely, the less we try to make them hook, the more the balls built-in strength takes over, and the more the ball hooks.

Rob Mautner

Thanks for the feedback. I can try to film another series of shots with different angles. What kind of angles do you need?

[RobLV1]

The video from the back should show the full figure, from the top of the head, to the bottom of your feet for the entire approach. It would also be very helpful to see a video taken from the bowling arm side, at the foul line, also showing the entire figure.

[shadowshocker]

The video from the back should show the full figure, from the top of the head, to the bottom of your feet for the entire approach. It would also be very helpful to see a video taken from the bowling arm side, at the foul line, also showing the entire figure.

Here you go (it's a few days old, but I haven't been able to get out to the alley this past week).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QMLnFkeapY

[RobLV1]

Thank you. This is a much better angle. You are definitely late in pushing the ball out, waiting until the third step of your five step approach. From what I can see from the rear view, you are compensating for getting to the line in front of the ball by pulling your right shoulder forward. This is called late timing trying to be early. The problem with it is that is causes great inconsistency. When it works too well, the ball is early and you miss left. When it doesn't work quite well enough, the ball is late, and you miss right. For starters, work on pushing the ball out with the first step with your right foot: right foot and ball move forward together. This will feel really weird to you at first, but once you get used to it, it will allow the ball to swing on its own without you trying to force it. The one other thing that I would suggest that you do at the same time is to move the ball to the right, directly under your right shoulder as you set up. Right now, you are having to bring the ball around you which is also contributing to the inconsistency. You can check this yourself with your camera. When you set up, a little bit of the ball should be visible from the rear view. Work on this, a let us know how it's coming.

Rob Mautner

[noeymc]

happy you start slow but i would try to accelerate starting around step 3

and i agree with rob but you do a 5 step should be short step then start push away if i am not mistake

your timing is late thats why your letting ball go so far in front of you should release by your shoe lace!

just few things i seen

[vdubtx]

Shadowshocker, great video explaing the 4 or 5 step approach. Might be easier to visualize before heading to the lanes and trying it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoyRbBHXQOA

[noeymc]

i think speeding up on step 3 will fix your timing i also like to point out you have a great foundation just minor tweeks here and there and you will be good 2 go

[RobLV1]

If you don't start pushing away on the second step rather than the third step, then speeding up on your third step will make your problems worse, not better. You have a ways to go, but you need to approach it by addressing one or, at a maximum, two at a time. For starters, push away on your second step, and get the ball under your shoulder so that you don't have to bring the ball around your body.

Rob Mautner

[vdubtx]

i think speeding up on step 3 will fix your timing i also like to point out you have a great foundation just minor tweeks here and there and you will be good 2 go

You're gonna confuse the dude. Rob has already told him some tweaks to work on.

[shadowshocker]

Quick question for Rob or anyone else. Recently tried this drill to keep the hand behind the ball (found here: http://voices.yahoo.com/how-hook-bowling-ball-2083024.html?cat=14) and noticed my ball actually hooked a lot more. Why is that? I used to bowl somewhat like this, lofting the ball, and remembered that my ball hooked more. Here is a video of me doing the drill:

http://youtu.be/6ha160GMsoI

[RobLV1]

The reason that the ball hooks more has nothing to do with the loft from the drill. The fact of the matter is that, with modern bowling balls, less is more. The more we "try" to make the ball hook, the less it hooks. Because of the strong covers and dynamic cores, balls know how to hook all by themselves when we just learn to stay out of the way and let them do it. It's just a matter of making sure that your hand is behind the ball and not on the side, and simply letting it go. By doing this you are rolling the ball instead of throwing the ball while trying to spin it.

[shadowshocker]

The reason that the ball hooks more has nothing to do with the loft from the drill. The fact of the matter is that, with modern bowling balls, less is more. The more we "try" to make the ball hook, the less it hooks. Because of the strong covers and dynamic cores, balls know how to hook all by themselves when we just learn to stay out of the way and let them do it. It's just a matter of making sure that your hand is behind the ball and not on the side, and simply letting it go. By doing this you are rolling the ball instead of throwing the ball while trying to spin it.

Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, the reason why my ball is hooking more in the video is because I'm actually doing less to hook it?

Can you tell me what I am doing differently in the drill video as compared to my form video? Is my hand actually staying behind the ball in the drill video?

[RobLV1]

Yes, your hand is staying much more behind the ball when you are doing the drill. Here's something that you can do to expand on the drill, using your full approach:

First, throw a few shots, trying to throw a back-up ball. Keep your hand on the inside part of the ball and try to rotate the ball in a clockwise direction to make it curve from left to right. You may not be able to get it to actually back up, but that's okay - it should go straight with very little hook and track very close to, or even hitting the thumb hole. Once you have done this a few times, put your hand in the same position and let it go, doing absolutely nothing to the ball.

I gave a lesson to a bowler from out of state a few weeks ago as he is preparing to join the PBA50 Tour next year. As soon as he got his hand in the back up ball position and did absolutely nothing to it, his only comment was, "Wow, I've never seen my ball roll like that before." Just learning to let the ball do it's job will make a tremendous difference to your bowling.

[mc_runner]

Just chiming in here to say thanks for the tips... going to be trying a couple of these drills in practice :)

[RobLV1]

ShadowShocker: It occured to me earlier today that you made a quantum jump from your original question about your consistency, to working on your release. A word of caution: you cannot develop a decent release until you perfect your timing. Work on the initial 2 areas, pushing out on your second step instead of your third, and get the ball under your shoulder instead of in front of you. Please do those things and get them down to the point that you are totally comfortable with them before you mess with your release. Trying to work on your release now is a waste of time.

[shadowshocker]

ShadowShocker: It occured to me earlier today that you made a quantum jump from your original question about your consistency, to working on your release. A word of caution: you cannot develop a decent release until you perfect your timing. Work on the initial 2 areas, pushing out on your second step instead of your third, and get the ball under your shoulder instead of in front of you. Please do those things and get them down to the point that you are totally comfortable with them before you mess with your release. Trying to work on your release now is a waste of time.

Understood. Thank you!