higher vs. lower end balls

[rv driver]

Here's an interesting question that I've not seen addressed in all my lurking here:

My pro shop guy suggested I buy an "entry-level" reactive ball as my first reactive ball. So... I've been looking at stuff like the Tropical Breeze, Path Rising, Scout, Ascent, Spike, etc. I've not looked at the higher-end stuff at all.

Why did he suggest that? is it because the lower end balls are easier to control? Because he didn't want me dropping a lot of $$$ and getting frustrated with the equipment? Is there any real reason why I should avoid the more upper end stuff? Did anyone here buy a higher end ball for their first ball? What more "mid-level" stuff might someone suggest to an aging, returning bowler who's never used reactive equipment or synthetic lanes?

[Blacksox1]

Everyone needs a 1500 grit polished symmetric in their arsenal. Path Rising would be a great option that will match up with many lane conditions. A great price and this ball can be drilled with a layout that can really hook, if desired, not necessary. Why do I know this ? Many bowlers in my league, even a team member, have this ball. For a first ball you will not go wrong !

[mc_runner]

Generally the entry-level stuff is easier to control and more flexible for more situations. When I moved into the higher end stuff, I noticed that it was really "finicky" - when the ball was on, it was ON but when it was off you'd get over/under reactions, roll out, etc. It takes some practice to be able to tell why a ball isn't working the way it should optimally - outside of simply oil (which btw I'm still learning 7 years in).

My first ball was a Storm Tropical Storm and frankly, it was the most predictable rolling ball I've ever owned. I'd agree with your pro guy - the tropical breeze is a solid ball to start out with and get a feel for what the reactive balls will do.

[rv driver]

Generally the entry-level stuff is easier to control and more flexible for more situations. When I moved into the higher end stuff, I noticed that it was really "finicky" - when the ball was on, it was ON but when it was off you'd get over/under reactions, roll out, etc. It takes some practice to be able to tell why a ball isn't working the way it should optimally - outside of simply oil (which btw I'm still learning 7 years in).

My first ball was a Storm Tropical Storm and frankly, it was the most predictable rolling ball I've ever owned. I'd agree with your pro guy - the tropical breeze is a solid ball to start out with and get a feel for what the reactive balls will do.
I keep coming back to 3 balls: The Path Rising, the Tropical Storm, and the Columbia Freeze (even though it's technically not an "entry level" ball, I like what I see and read about it). My first ball will doubtless be one of these three. And probably fairly soon. Getting tired of throwing ill-fitting house balls. So what do you think of the Columbia as opposed to the Tropical Storm?

[Blacksox1]

rv driver the included link is the comparison chart for the 3 balls. http://www.bowlingball.com/CompareProducts.php?ItemsInCompare=3

[rv driver]

rv driver the included link is the comparison chart for the 3 balls. http://www.bowlingball.com/CompareProducts.php?ItemsInCompare=3

Thanks!

[RobLV1]

I think that your pro shop guy probably suggested an entry-level ball to keep you from going into total bowling culture shock when you first try it out. While entry-level balls have reactive covers, they are usually not over-reactive, and while they do have cores, they are symmetrical, simply shaped "engines" which will also not over-react. Whichever ball you decide on, I would suggest that you choose something with a solid cover, rather than a pearl or hybrid. Good luck to you, and welcome to the wonderful world of modern bowling.

[Sourtower]

Here's an interesting question that I've not seen addressed in all my lurking here:

My pro shop guy suggested I buy an "entry-level" reactive ball as my first reactive ball. So... I've been looking at stuff like the Tropical Breeze, Path Rising, Scout, Ascent, Spike, etc. I've not looked at the higher-end stuff at all.

Why did he suggest that? is it because the lower end balls are easier to control? Because he didn't want me dropping a lot of $$$ and getting frustrated with the equipment? Is there any real reason why I should avoid the more upper end stuff? Did anyone here buy a higher end ball for their first ball? What more "mid-level" stuff might someone suggest to an aging, returning bowler who's never used reactive equipment or synthetic lanes?

I went into the pro shop in February with the same exact dilemma. I had been throwing a ball with a conventional grip for the good part of 7-8 years as a casual bowler. When I walked in, I immediately saw the Storm Zero Gravity and wanted it. My pro shop guy flat out refused to sell it to me, but he at least explained why. He told me that just because a bowling ball has the highest price tag doesn't mean its going to do exactly what I expect it to do. He explained that I was better off choosing a mid to entry level ball in order to learn to not only throw a finger tip drilled ball since I was used to throwing with a conventional drilled ball, but to also get a bowling ball with a more controlled roll. He said that people come into the pro shop all the time with no experience and want the highest end bowling ball because they think its going to make them throw 300s every time, when realistically, each person will find that no bowling ball works the same for everyone. He wanted to keep me as a returning customer as opposed to somebody who buys one item, then never comes back because they think he was just trying to take their money. He then pointed me in the direction of a few of his medium-heavy oil bowling balls and said that whichever one I chose, would probably get the most mileage and use. I ended up going with a Hammer Black Widow Assassin, and have never looked back. Just 3 weeks ago I ended up going back for that Storm Zero Gravity, but I was more appreciative because he took the time to teach me about a lot of bowling things I didn't know or pay attention to.

I will say something though. Unless you know the pro shop guy firsthand, I would definitely shop around. My pro shop guy suggested that I mull over a few bowling balls and also shop around to make sure I was getting the best deal possible. Not only did my pro shop guy have the best price, but every bowling ball he drills up includes drilling, 2 inserts, a thumb slug, a free microfiber towel, and a free bowling lesson. The best part is that with all those things he offers, his prices were still at least $30 to $40 better than all the other pro shops in my area.

[rv driver]

I went into the pro shop in February with the same exact dilemma. I had been throwing a ball with a conventional grip for the good part of 7-8 years as a casual bowler. When I walked in, I immediately saw the Storm Zero Gravity and wanted it. My pro shop guy flat out refused to sell it to me, but he at least explained why. He told me that just because a bowling ball has the highest price tag doesn't mean its going to do exactly what I expect it to do. He explained that I was better off choosing a mid to entry level ball in order to learn to not only throw a finger tip drilled ball since I was used to throwing with a conventional drilled ball, but to also get a bowling ball with a more controlled roll. He said that people come into the pro shop all the time with no experience and want the highest end bowling ball because they think its going to make them throw 300s every time, when realistically, each person will find that no bowling ball works the same for everyone. He wanted to keep me as a returning customer as opposed to somebody who buys one item, then never comes back because they think he was just trying to take their money. He then pointed me in the direction of a few of his medium-heavy oil bowling balls and said that whichever one I chose, would probably get the most mileage and use. I ended up going with a Hammer Black Widow Assassin, and have never looked back. Just 3 weeks ago I ended up going back for that Storm Zero Gravity, but I was more appreciative because he took the time to teach me about a lot of bowling things I didn't know or pay attention to.

I will say something though. Unless you know the pro shop guy firsthand, I would definitely shop around. My pro shop guy suggested that I mull over a few bowling balls and also shop around to make sure I was getting the best deal possible. Not only did my pro shop guy have the best price, but every bowling ball he drills up includes drilling, 2 inserts, a thumb slug, a free microfiber towel, and a free bowling lesson. The best part is that with all those things he offers, his prices were still at least $30 to $40 better than all the other pro shops in my area.
My shop sells for about the same price as stuff on here. For example, I can get a Tropical Breeze for $110 including the measuring and drilling, plugs and grips thrown in -- about what I'd pay here (but without the forum...)

[Bunny]

Pull the trigger!! Go with the Breeze. Seriously, you cannot go wrong with that ball. I've seen all types of bowlers from full-roller beginners to two-handed crankers have success with the Breeze. I'm thinking of adding one to my bag. A guy was throwing one Sunday and told me that they have some new colors. I'm heading over to Bowlingball.com right now to check it out. :)

Go for it! The sooner you do the sooner you be enjoying it!!

[Stormed1]

You can't go wrong with any of those 3 although my choice would be the Motiv Ascent or Ascent Apex. It's a lot of ball for thee money

[rv driver]

You can't go wrong with any of those 3 although my choice would be the Motiv Ascent or Ascent Apex. It's a lot of ball for thee money
I'd thought about the Ascent, and it was actually on my "short list" at one time. I think I shied away from it because my shop doesn't carry Motiv.

[Stormed1]

That's their loss as their equipment matches up with any other manufacturer

[larry mc]

Here's an interesting question that I've not seen addressed in all my lurking here:

My pro shop guy suggested I buy an "entry-level" reactive ball as my first reactive ball. So... I've been looking at stuff like the Tropical Breeze, Path Rising, Scout, Ascent, Spike, etc. I've not looked at the higher-end stuff at all.

Why did he suggest that? is it because the lower end balls are easier to control? Because he didn't want me dropping a lot of $$$ and getting frustrated with the equipment? Is there any real reason why I should avoid the more upper end stuff? Did anyone here buy a higher end ball for their first ball? What more "mid-level" stuff might someone suggest to an aging, returning bowler who's never used reactive equipment or synthetic lanes?

dont overlook the brunswick lt48

[RobLV1]

There is nothing entry-level about the Brunswick LT 48! While it goes fairly long, particularly for a Brunswick product (low rg of 2.56), it has a very aggressive cover. Brunswick's entry level balls are the Strike King series.

[rv driver]

That's their loss as their equipment matches up with any other manufacturer
I know! I really liked what I saw of the Ascent.

[rv driver]

There is nothing entry-level about the Brunswick LT 48! While it goes fairly long, particularly for a Brunswick product (low rg of 2.56), it has a very aggressive cover. Brunswick's entry level balls are the Strike King series.
I did look at both the Strike King and the LT-48. Something about them just didn't set bells off in my head, like the Storm or the Columbia. Or the Motiv.

[rv driver]

Aaand got it narrowed to two now: The Storm Tropical Breeze or the Columbia Freeze. Now for the coin flip...

Seriously, I've watched the videos and read the reviews. What are y'all's thoughts as to comparative similarities/differences? Or are they really not worth noting (except for the fact that the Freeze doesn't smell heavenly)?

[Aslan]

I'm mad at Storm Matchmaker because every time I go there to see what ball they suggest for my game, it's always the tropical breeze. I AM WAY BETTER than that!! Stop trying to convince me I'm a girl or an entry level bowler!!

As you can see, it's giving me a complex...so I am boycotting Storm's website.

[RobLV1]

Dude, you're bowling on wood lanes. Suggesting a Tropical Breeze is not saying you're a girl, it's saying that you're bowling on lanes from the last century, so you need a ball that is made not to over-react. Over-react as in the way you are!

[rv driver]

Wood is a lot grippier than synthetic. I'm surprised any reactive ball will be controllable on wood -- unless it's HEAVILY oiled.

[vdubtx]

Dude, you're bowling on wood lanes. Suggesting a Tropical Breeze is not saying you're a girl, it's saying that you're bowling on lanes from the last century, so you need a ball that is made not to over-react. Over-react as in the way you are!

Oooh burn!!!

[Aslan]

Oooh burn!!!

Yeah, a burn on wood lanes.

Actually, you can't even enter "wood lanes" as a choice. But if you enter "low oil"...tropical breeze.

[larry mc]

There is nothing entry-level about the Brunswick LT 48! While it goes fairly long, particularly for a Brunswick product (low rg of 2.56), it has a very aggressive cover. Brunswick's entry level balls are the Strike King series.

the cover isnt much stronger then the strike king

[Perrin]

Aaand got it narrowed to two now: The Storm Tropical Breeze or the Columbia Freeze. Now for the coin flip...

Seriously, I've watched the videos and read the reviews. What are y'all's thoughts as to comparative similarities/differences? Or are they really not worth noting (except for the fact that the Freeze doesn't smell heavenly)?

Depends on what you want it to do. The Breeze has a higher RG(barely) and very low differential compared to the Freeze.

The freeze comes in Pearl, hybrid, and solid options.
Breeze has Pearl or Hybrid ( scent based on Color)

IMO you won't go wrong either way. The freeze offers a solid coverstock if that is better for your game go that route.

The breeze will act a 'freshener' for your shoes if you need it to.... (Warning: do NOT store in an eclosed space or container the smell will build up and become overpowering. This goes for all Storm balls)

MY opinion:
The breeze is a great ball for learning something new since the DIff is so low it won't have much flare.
The freeze gives you more coverstock options and a higher differential if you want to/can take advantage of extra track flare.

[RobLV1]

I've thrown both the Freeze and the Tropical Breeze. I still have the Tropical Breeze. Freeze is long gone. 'Nuf said?

[Aslan]

Last night on the lanes...at least 2 people using Tropical Breezes. I think there was a Cyclone, a Storm "Ice Storm", a VIBE, a Columbia300 plastic ball from the 1970s, and one guy had the new LT-Johnny Petraglia. And I threw the Rhythm (which is essentially an Arson with a slightly different coverstock). So not a lot of "big hook" balls as usual.

[rv driver]

Depends on what you want it to do. The Breeze has a higher RG(barely) and very low differential compared to the Freeze.

The freeze comes in Pearl, hybrid, and solid options.
Breeze has Pearl or Hybrid ( scent based on Color)

IMO you won't go wrong either way. The freeze offers a solid coverstock if that is better for your game go that route.

The breeze will act a 'freshener' for your shoes if you need it to.... (Warning: do NOT store in an eclosed space or container the smell will build up and become overpowering. This goes for all Storm balls)

MY opinion:
The breeze is a great ball for learning something new since the DIff is so low it won't have much flare.
The freeze gives you more coverstock options and a higher differential if you want to/can take advantage of extra track flare.
Thanks! More food for thought.

[Blacksox1]

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Savings through Monday May 26 on selected Pyramid bowling balls.

[rv driver]

http://c3421146.r46.cf0.rackcdn.com/promotions/2014/05-23/Pyramid-Coupon-Popup-5-23-14.jpg

Savings through Monday May 26 on selected Pyramid bowling balls.
Thanks for the link!

[rv driver]

Yeah, a burn on wood lanes.

Actually, you can't even enter "wood lanes" as a choice. But if you enter "low oil"...tropical breeze.
That's funny, because I keep coming up with the Punch Out...

[circlecity]

That's funny, because I keep coming up with the Punch Out...

Someone told me the Punch Out is exactly the same ball as another but just different color and scent. any truth to this?

[rv driver]

Someone told me the Punch Out is exactly the same ball as another but just different color and scent. any truth to this?
Looks a whole lot like the Lights Out -- same RG and diff., same cover stock, same core...

[Mike White]

Looks a whole lot like the Lights Out -- same RG and diff., same cover stock, same core...

The same except:

Wipe Out is the solid
Punch Out is the pearl
Lights Out is the hybrid

[rv driver]

The same except:

Wipe Out is the solid
Punch Out is the pearl
Lights Out is the hybrid
Yeah, I just noticed that *little* difference...

[RobLV1]

I wrote the cover story for BTM back in October of 2012, entitled "Reincarnating Your Favorite Bowling Ball." I did a lot of research into how ball companies recycle their successes. This is not a bad thing, as it allows bowlers to use their knowledge of bowling balls to make knowledgeable ball purchases. In terms of the three balls you're discussing, all use a variation of the R2S cover material: solid, pearl, and hybrid. The cover material was first introduced as a solid in the Special Agent in 2006. The pearl was introduced later that same year in the T-Road Pearl, and the hybrid made its debut in July of 2007 in the Sure Fire. They have all been used frequently in many of Storm's most successful lines including the Road series, and the Frantic series. The cores have also been around for a while, most recently in the Tropical Heat series and the Natural line for urethanes.

[rv driver]

I wrote the cover story for BTM back in October of 2012, entitled "Reincarnating Your Favorite Bowling Ball." I did a lot of research into how ball companies recycle their successes. This is not a bad thing, as it allows bowlers to use their knowledge of bowling balls to make knowledgeable ball purchases. In terms of the three balls you're discussing, all use a variation of the R2S cover material: solid, pearl, and hybrid. The cover material was first introduced as a solid in the Special Agent in 2006. The pearl was introduced later that same year in the T-Road Pearl, and the hybrid made its debut in July of 2007 in the Sure Fire. They have all been used frequently in many of Storm's most successful lines including the Road series, and the Frantic series. The cores have also been around for a while, most recently in the Tropical Heat series and the Natural line for urethanes.
So, what's your "ballpark" opinion (knowing that you know little about my house lane conditions, my swing, release, axis, etc.) of this particular situation, Rob?

I've been looking at a Tropical breeze as a first reactive ball & fingertip grip. However, Storm's Match Maker matched me up with a Punch Out, so I took a look. As you're aware from this thread, I hadn't really considered anything much other than an "entry level" reactive. The Punch Out is very similar to the Breeze in terms of RG and diff; cover stock & core are different. It has a higher flare potential, and boasts a fairly aggressive hook (I assume that could be toned down depending on how the ball is drilled). Which would you guess would be the better choice for me (given what little you know about me)? I have a slower speed, lower rev, "in-between" axis and a low track.

Also, you mentioned earlier that you thought I'd do better with a solid rather than a pearl. AFAIK, pearls go longer and maybe break harder; solids hook sooner and bleed energy quicker (because they're grippier). What's your reasoning there? I'm interested because the Breeze doesn't come in a solid.

Thanks!

[RobLV1]

You're right, I don't know much about your house conditions or your bowling style. You need to understand that a bowler's style, ball speed, rev rate, axis tilt, axis rotation makes a huge difference as to what ball will work for them. For a lower rev player, the low rg is huge, but the differential really doesn't mean a whole lot. The differential on the breeze is almost non-existent, where the differential on the Punch out is much higher. If you are a higher rev player, that makes a whole lot of difference. If you are a lower rev player, then not so much. Considering where you are in your game, the Breeze hybrid will probably give you a good idea about what will work for you in the future. My guess is that whatever ball you dicide on now, probably won't satisfy you for a whole long time, but it will give you a good idea about what you want next. Buying bowling balls is an ongoing endeavor. Just ask my wife!

[Amyers]

I can speak a little of the tropical breeze I bought one for my wife about three months ago. She had been using about a 10 year old plastic ball. Her average has increased by about 15-20 pins with the new ball. It hits good and has more hook than you think especially if your lower speed. It's a lot of ball for the money. I wouldn't mind having one myself

[rv driver]

You're right, I don't know much about your house conditions or your bowling style. You need to understand that a bowler's style, ball speed, rev rate, axis tilt, axis rotation makes a huge difference as to what ball will work for them. For a lower rev player, the low rg is huge, but the differential really doesn't mean a whole lot. The differential on the breeze is almost non-existent, where the differential on the Punch out is much higher. If you are a higher rev player, that makes a whole lot of difference. If you are a lower rev player, then not so much. Considering where you are in your game, the Breeze hybrid will probably give you a good idea about what will work for you in the future. My guess is that whatever ball you dicide on now, probably won't satisfy you for a whole long time, but it will give you a good idea about what you want next. Buying bowling balls is an ongoing endeavor. Just ask my wife!
Ha! I know what you mean where the wife is concerned. I'm a musician by profession and have an ongoing collection of instruments.

So, you'd suggest the Breeze hybrid as a good place to begin? Or are you noncommittal here? Why do you think the Storm engine suggests the Punch Out?

[RobLV1]

Yes, I think that the Breeze Hybrid is a good place for you to start. I think the Storm "engine" is suggesting the Punch Out based purely on the input that you have provided. It can only make calculations based on numerical values that it places on that imput. The fact that it is your first reactive fingertip ball adds some additional information that the engine has no way of calculating: how your mind will react to seeing something that it has never seen before: a bowling ball hooking all by itself.

[rv driver]

Yes, I think that the Breeze Hybrid is a good place for you to start. I think the Storm "engine" is suggesting the Punch Out based purely on the input that you have provided. It can only make calculations based on numerical values that it places on that imput. The fact that it is your first reactive fingertip ball adds some additional information that the engine has no way of calculating: how your mind will react to seeing something that it has never seen before: a bowling ball hooking all by itself.
And would you say that the hybrid is a better choice than the pearl? If so, why?

[rv driver]

I can speak a little of the tropical breeze I bought one for my wife about three months ago. She had been using about a 10 year old plastic ball. Her average has increased by about 15-20 pins with the new ball. It hits good and has more hook than you think especially if your lower speed. It's a lot of ball for the money. I wouldn't mind having one myself Yeah, that's what I've been hearing from a lot of other people too. Thanks for your input!

[RobLV1]

Pearls tend to give you more of an over/under ball reaction - more skid in the oil, more intense hook in the friction. Hybrids give you the best of both worlds: the skid in the oil of a pearl, with the calmer reaction to the friction of a solid.

[rv driver]

Pearls tend to give you more of an over/under ball reaction - more skid in the oil, more intense hook in the friction. Hybrids give you the best of both worlds: the skid in the oil of a pearl, with the calmer reaction to the friction of a solid.
At this point, while learning to develop a hook, wouldn't I wan't a more intense hook, though, to keep me from "over trying?" Or is that a question best left to someone watching me bowl, I'm guessing?

[RobLV1]

The fact that this is your first fingertip ball tells me that you are going to get a more intense hook regardless of which ball you choose. The fact that you have been away from bowling for a while leads me to believe that the first thing that you will try to do is to play the oil line (not such a good idea today). If you do play the oil line and miss a little left or a little right, you will get much more of an over/under reaction with a pearl than you will with a hybrid.

[rv driver]

The fact that this is your first fingertip ball tells me that you are going to get a more intense hook regardless of which ball you choose. The fact that you have been away from bowling for a while leads me to believe that the first thing that you will try to do is to play the oil line (not such a good idea today). If you do play the oil line and miss a little left or a little right, you will get much more of an over/under reaction with a pearl than you will with a hybrid.
Gotcha. That makes a whole lot of sense. right now, throwing polyester house balls, that's basically what I'm doing. I'm assuming that I'm going to have to move left and hit the same spot down lane with a reactive ball. I'm further assuming that a less intense hook (now that I think about it) will be easier to control. I was worried that my slower speed might preclude the use of a solid cover. I'd think I'd want a longer ball, such a s a pearl might provide. Maybe a hybrid is just the ticket...

any further insights you might have are welcome, BTW.

[Aslan]

I think a lot of it depends on your house conditions and how you actually throw the ball.

But this is why they make entry level balls. My recommendations would be:

- Any of the balls in Storm's "Hot" line.
- Hammer's Arson or Amp balls.
- Brunswick Strike King series or the JP LT-48.
- Track 300A
- Columbia300 Eruption Pro
- DV8 Dude
- Pyramid Path Rising
- Motiv Ascent or Sigma Sting
- RotoGrip HP2 Line (Wrecker, Uproar, Rumble)

Any of the above are going to give you some decent high end technology and movement that you won't immediately outgrow...but none of them are going to react too abruptly or be unpredictable. The key is going to be having the ball driller watch you throw and drill the ball accordingly. Any of the above list could be perfect for you...or they could get drilled in a weird fashion that make them harder to use. The bowling balls don't matter much at this stage. They are all round, mostly symmetric cores, reactive coverstocks...and until you find your game again...the RGs and Diffs and all that aren't really going to matter much. I didn't include and 900Global or Ebonite because I think they make very good high end stuff...not too impressed with their entry/mid level stuff.

My only issue with the Tropical Breeze (besides it being a girl ball) is I think you'll outgrow it too quickly. Unless you're a high speed guy on wood lanes...I think you're going to want something stronger and then you gotta go out in 2-3 months and buy another ball. The "Hot" line and the line above it with the Hy Road series...you won't outgrow those balls very quickly and they are all very controllable. I only mentioned the "Hot" series because they're significantly cheaper...the Hy Roads are fairly popular and pricey...where as you can get any of those balls in the "Hot" line, get similar performance, and pay no more than $120 for the ball.

And if I had to choose a coverstock...again, kinda depends on your style and lanes...but a hybrid gives you something in the middle...which is a good place to start. So that being said...I'd go with the Rotogrip Wrecker over the Motiv Sigma Sting or the DV8 Dude. I think the DV8 Dude is the best of the bunch...but without seeing your game/conditions...not sure I'd recommend a solid coverstock. And the Wrecker is like $99 on bowlingball.com...less than the Dude, Sting, or Eruption Pro.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Buy a Rotogrip Wrecker.

[Aslan]

I was worried that my slower speed might preclude the use of a solid cover.

Agreed. Thats why I'd suggest the Wrecker over the Dude...even though the Dude is probably the "best" choice. I'm just so far not a big fan of solid coverstocks. They seem (especially at lower speeds) to grab too early...and without a lot of revs...don't seem strong enough to make the hard move back to the pocket. Now...surface changes, higher end balls, and drilling layouts can change that...but still.

[Aslan]

And as for "deals" on the balls listed:

- Hammer Arson Hybrid; as low as $89.85.
- Hammer Arson Pearl; as low as $89.95.
- Storm FreaknFrantic; as low as $89.95.
- Track 300A; as low as $75.95.

[rv driver]

I think a lot of it depends on your house conditions and how you actually throw the ball.

But this is why they make entry level balls. My recommendations would be:

- Any of the balls in Storm's "Hot" line.
- Hammer's Arson or Amp balls.
- Brunswick Strike King series or the JP LT-48.
- Track 300A
- Columbia300 Eruption Pro
- DV8 Dude
- Pyramid Path Rising
- Motiv Ascent or Sigma Sting
- RotoGrip HP2 Line (Wrecker, Uproar, Rumble)

Any of the above are going to give you some decent high end technology and movement that you won't immediately outgrow...but none of them are going to react too abruptly or be unpredictable. The key is going to be having the ball driller watch you throw and drill the ball accordingly. Any of the above list could be perfect for you...or they could get drilled in a weird fashion that make them harder to use. The bowling balls don't matter much at this stage. They are all round, mostly symmetric cores, reactive coverstocks...and until you find your game again...the RGs and Diffs and all that aren't really going to matter much. I didn't include and 900Global or Ebonite because I think they make very good high end stuff...not too impressed with their entry/mid level stuff.

My only issue with the Tropical Breeze (besides it being a girl ball) is I think you'll outgrow it too quickly. Unless you're a high speed guy on wood lanes...I think you're going to want something stronger and then you gotta go out in 2-3 months and buy another ball. The "Hot" line and the line above it with the Hy Road series...you won't outgrow those balls very quickly and they are all very controllable. I only mentioned the "Hot" series because they're significantly cheaper...the Hy Roads are fairly popular and pricey...where as you can get any of those balls in the "Hot" line, get similar performance, and pay no more than $120 for the ball.

And if I had to choose a coverstock...again, kinda depends on your style and lanes...but a hybrid gives you something in the middle...which is a good place to start. So that being said...I'd go with the Rotogrip Wrecker over the Motiv Sigma Sting or the DV8 Dude. I think the DV8 Dude is the best of the bunch...but without seeing your game/conditions...not sure I'd recommend a solid coverstock. And the Wrecker is like $99 on bowlingball.com...less than the Dude, Sting, or Eruption Pro.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Buy a Rotogrip Wrecker.
So... neither you nor Rob (or anyone else knowledgeable) think that these more "midrange" balls would be too uncontrollable for a first-time fingertip gripper?

[RobLV1]

OMG! The guy averaged 210 with a pre-reactive ball drilled non-fingertip. He already knows how to throw a bowling ball! All we are trying to do is to keep him from being totally overwhelmed by seeing a midrange ball hook like nothing he has ever imagined. Using all my fingers and toes, I couldn't count all the 250+ games I threw using a Tropical Breeze. Girl ball my A*s!

[rv driver]

OMG! The guy averaged 210 with a pre-reactive ball drilled non-fingertip. He already knows how to throw a bowling ball! All we are trying to do is to keep him from being totally overwhelmed by seeing a midrange ball hook like nothing he has ever imagined. Using all my fingers and toes, I couldn't count all the 250+ games I threw using a Tropical Breeze. Girl ball my A*s! I just wanna be sure that slow ball speed and using a new grip isn't going to make the ball overreact. I don't think I need a jumpy ball until I learn to control it.
BTW, Rob, are you familiar with the Pyramid balls? If so, what's your opinion. I keep discounting them due to unfamiliarity and a couple of negative statements from the forum.

[Amyers]

I really felt this way too I wasn't bowling with plastic before but I was throwing a polished urethane that was 20 years old. Guess what it's 6 months latter and I wish I had something stronger on more days than not. If you keep into this you will eventually end up with a collection of balls so in the long run it won't matter in the short run I would suggest getting something middle of the road to start with. Also from what everyone says these newer balls don't have the life the older ones did I doubt we will see many people bowling with 20 year old storm syncs the way we do with the old hammers and stuff. Best advice I can give don't sweat it you can adjust the surface some if the ball is too much at first also

[rv driver]

I really felt this way too I wasn't bowling with plastic before but I was throwing a polished urethane that was 20 years old. Guess what it's 6 months latter and I wish I had something stronger on more days than not. If you keep into this you will eventually end up with a collection of balls so in the long run it won't matter in the short run I would suggest getting something middle of the road to start with. Also from what everyone says these newer balls don't have the life the older ones did I doubt we will see many people bowling with 20 year old storm syncs the way we do with the old hammers and stuff. Best advice I can give don't sweat it you can adjust the surface some if the ball is too much at first also
Right. I think middle of the road is probably more what I'm looking for rather than high-end.

[RobLV1]

Sorry, don't know anything about Pyramid balls.

[rv driver]

Sorry, don't know anything about Pyramid balls.
Yeah, doesn't seem to be much about them out there. I just keep coming back to the Breeze and the Freeze, no matter what else I look at. I just think these balls make more sense for me. I'd had a short love affair with the Up Roar, but I suspect that with a low ball speed, it would break too much.

[Amyers]

You might want to consider the hyroad by storm it has the hybrid cover discussed earlier and a little more umph than the breeze everyone I've talked to says its great and not crazy expensive

[Aslan]

So... neither you nor Rob (or anyone else knowledgeable) think that these more "midrange" balls would be too uncontrollable for a first-time fingertip gripper?

In a word….NO.

P.S. Thats from a first time fingertipper that started with a mid-range ball (Storm Frantic; formerly of the HOT series).


Using all my fingers and toes, I couldn't count all the 250+ games I threw using a Tropical Breeze. Girl ball my A*s!

Yeah…but thats slightly disingenuous. I mean, Mike W. (your hero) bowled a 300-game with a Storm Ice or Storm Mix. Does that mean a Storm Ice or Storm Mix would be the perfect ball for a new player?? Maybe as a spare ball…if the oil is heavier than a light dusting!

You and Mike have a higher level of skill and can use weaker bowling balls to attain a high score.

I still think…the guy goes midrange…symmetric…probably hybrid coverstock…and the ball serves him well for 9 months. He finds his game…then starts thinking about building an arsenal, etc…

Or…he gets a ball that smells like a birthday cake, all the other male bowlers tease him…2 weeks later he over-reacts and impulse buys a DV8 or Motiv with a manly monster name…then can't sell his 15lb Tropical Breeze because girls generally throw 10-14lbers….then he misses a credit card payment…pretty soon he's paying 29.99% and has a 490 credit score.

[Aslan]

You might want to consider the hyroad by storm it has the hybrid cover discussed earlier and a little more umph than the breeze everyone I've talked to says its great and not crazy expensive

I mentioned the Hy Road series. Excellent series with a proven track record. And I think very controllable. The "issue" is cost. Hy Roads aren't cheap. Not a lot of sales since it's so popular.

[rv driver]

In a word….NO.

P.S. Thats from a first time fingertipper that started with a mid-range ball (Storm Frantic; formerly of the HOT series).



Yeah…but thats slightly disingenuous. I mean, Mike W. (your hero) bowled a 300-game with a Storm Ice or Storm Mix. Does that mean a Storm Ice or Storm Mix would be the perfect ball for a new player?? Maybe as a spare ball…if the oil is heavier than a light dusting!

You and Mike have a higher level of skill and can use weaker bowling balls to attain a high score.

I still think…the guy goes midrange…symmetric…probably hybrid coverstock…and the ball serves him well for 9 months. He finds his game…then starts thinking about building an arsenal, etc…

Or…he gets a ball that smells like a birthday cake, all the other male bowlers tease him…2 weeks later he over-reacts and impulse buys a DV8 or Motiv with a manly monster name…then can't sell his 15lb Tropical Breeze because girls generally throw 10-14lbers….then he misses a credit card payment…pretty soon he's paying 29.99% and has a 490 credit score.
Ha! yeah, that'd be about par for the course for me -- a series of escalating, unfortunate events.

Seriously, I [I]do[I] worry about pairing a strong ball with a low ball speed. Wouldn't a Hy Road hook sooner than, say, a Breeze -- and undesirably so?

[Amyers]

The difference in hook between the two is not that big when we are talking about hook the difference maybe 3-4 boards from what I have seen. he hyroad is not a hook monster

[rv driver]

The difference in hook between the two is not that big when we are talking about hook the difference maybe 3-4 boards from what I have seen. he hyroad is not a hook monster
You might be right... definitely food for thought.

[Amyers]

I mentioned the Hy Road series. Excellent series with a proven track record. And I think very controllable. The "issue" is cost. Hy Roads aren't cheap. Not a lot of sales since it's so popular.

One of the things I don't get is people who react over the cost of a bowling ball. I know money doesn't grow on trees and believe me I struggle as much or more than anybody else when it comes to money but the price difference between the balls we have discussed earlier about $90 dollars the hyroad is about $120 its $30 if you figure the ball is good for at least a year more likely 2 or 3 but even at a year if you only bowl one three game league per week no practice or anything else its about .19 cents per game. Lets please quit with the money thing no one wants to spend more than they have too but I hear this all the time. it doesn't matter if its USBC dues, league dues, sport certification fees, or balls. Bowling is cheaper than just about any sport.

[rv driver]

One of the things I don't get is people who react over the cost of a bowling ball. I know money doesn't grow on trees and believe me I struggle as much or more than anybody else when it comes to money but the price difference between the balls we have discussed earlier about $90 dollars the hyroad is about $120 its $30 if you figure the ball is good for at least a year more likely 2 or 3 but even at a year if you only bowl one three game league per week no practice or anything else its about .19 cents per game. Lets please quit with the money thing no one wants to spend more than they have too but I hear this all the time. it doesn't matter if its USBC dues, league dues, sport certification fees, or balls. Bowling is cheaper than just about any sport.
I'm not worried so much about cost as I am what's right for me, and what I like.

[Aslan]

I'm not worried so much about cost as I am what's right for me, and what I like.

1) You're too worried about balls hooking too much. EVEN IF IT DID...which it won't...a 0.5-1.0mph change in velocity will most likely fix any "over-hook".

2) The reason, as I said before, for recommending something above the Tropical Breeze is I think you'll IMMEDIATELY grow out of it. You'll get frustrated that it's "not hooking enough" and you'll start adding a bunch of hand to the release to try and compensate. Think of it like a computer purchase. You go out, buy the $299 special at Costco...and in 2 months you're out of memory and pissed that it's too slow for the video games you want to play. So you either start investing in $1000 worth of aftermarket upgrades or you go out and spend the $899 you should have in the first place and get a real computer.

3) I agree that the money thing isn't the driving factor...but why **** $50-$70 away on a ball when you don't have to? Don't get me wrong...I support the Hy Road choice and think it will serve you VERY well as a starting ball. Very controllable and a great track record. But for a "first" ball? I think the others on the list can be had for less and suit your needs. One minute you're talking about getting an entry level Tropical Breeze, then I mention there are some nice mid-range balls that can be had for less, then we're talking about the Hy Road series. Pretty soon Iceman is going to be in here pitching the Hammer Deadly Aim and you're going to be considering the BYTE or Mastermind. I mean, whats another $140??

Answer: For ME...$140 is TWO balls...so a $210 ball better be magnificent!! Becuase I coulda got 3 mid-high end balls shipped to me for that price.

[rv driver]

1) You're too worried about balls hooking too much. EVEN IF IT DID...which it won't...a 0.5-1.0mph change in velocity will most likely fix any "over-hook".

2) The reason, as I said before, for recommending something above the Tropical Breeze is I think you'll IMMEDIATELY grow out of it. You'll get frustrated that it's "not hooking enough" and you'll start adding a bunch of hand to the release to try and compensate. Think of it like a computer purchase. You go out, buy the $299 special at Costco...and in 2 months you're out of memory and pissed that it's too slow for the video games you want to play. So you either start investing in $1000 worth of aftermarket upgrades or you go out and spend the $899 you should have in the first place and get a real computer.

3) I agree that the money thing isn't the driving factor...but why **** $50-$70 away on a ball when you don't have to? Don't get me wrong...I support the Hy Road choice and think it will serve you VERY well as a starting ball. Very controllable and a great track record. But for a "first" ball? I think the others on the list can be had for less and suit your needs. One minute you're talking about getting an entry level Tropical Breeze, then I mention there are some nice mid-range balls that can be had for less, then we're talking about the Hy Road series. Pretty soon Iceman is going to be in here pitching the Hammer Deadly Aim and you're going to be considering the BYTE or Mastermind. I mean, whats another $140??

Answer: For ME...$140 is TWO balls...so a $210 ball better be magnificent!! Becuase I coulda got 3 mid-high end balls shipped to me for that price.
Really looking at something more like a Lights Out or a Wrecker (to stay with the hybrid motif) -- and still interested in the Freeze hybrid too, and possibly the Up Roar (not a hybrid, but I like the looks and the numbers).

[rv driver]

I took a good look at a few new balls today. I reeeeaaally like the Wrecker and the Lights Out. I also continue to be intrigued by the Motiv Ascent. Additionally, I took a look at the DV8 Misfit Orange (I'd never seriously considered DV8 -- don't know why...) and I'm interested, but I like the length and continuous back end movement of the first two choices. They seem similar to the Breeze hybrid, but stronger. And still interested in the Freeze...

I'd like to know what everyone thinks of the Wrecker and Lights Out as compared to each other (and to other balls). they both seem to be great balls for the money.

[edit] I found both balls on Bowler X, for $2-10 cheaper than Bowlingball.com.

[circlecity]

I have a wrecker and it' a solid ball. I used it last night on a Cheetah pattern around 5-8 board and when I threw it correctly, speed, spot etc.. It when long and then snapped right in the pocket or brooklyn hehehe. I wished I had used it the whole night instead of my Hyper Cell.

[Amyers]

I haven't seen anyone throwing the lights out but the owner of the alley I bowl at has a wrecker and about 6 other balls usually if he is bowling with anything other than the wrecker at the end of the game he walks by says that was stupid and gets the wrecker

[rv driver]

I haven't seen anyone throwing the lights out but the owner of the alley I bowl at has a wrecker and about 6 other balls usually if he is bowling with anything other than the wrecker at the end of the game he walks by says that was stupid and gets the wrecker

I have a wrecker and it' a solid ball. I used it last night on a Cheetah pattern around 5-8 board and when I threw it correctly, speed, spot etc.. It when long and then snapped right in the pocket or brooklyn hehehe. I wished I had used it the whole night instead of my Hyper Cell.
Yeah, I'm really liking the looks of this ball. I'm thinking that Bowling Boards needs to do a giveaway with this ball and I need to win it...

[Aslan]

I found both balls on Bowler X, for $2-10 cheaper than Bowlingball.com.

I'm willing to bet bowlingball.com would match that price for a new forum member.

[rv driver]

I'm willing to bet bowlingball.com would match that price for a new forum member.
When I had trouble getting registered (a technical glitch), I got immediate help and the nicest e-mail response from the owner. I've gotten a lot of help and good service here. I'd really like to do business with them.

[rv driver]

After looking at all the stats, watching some vids, talking to some folks, and connecting with people at Brunswick and Motiv, the Ascent and Misfit have climbed to the top of my short list. Since I'm gonna have to throw a lighter ball, the Wrecker really suffers at a lower weight numbers-wise. The Misfit's numbers are actually better than the 15 or 16#, and the Ascent's are close + they use the same core in their lighter balls.

I never could get hold of the folks at Columbia -- tried several times -- so Freeze is out. The DV8 folks were really helpful, and the folks at Motiv were extremely helpful.

[Amyers]

Which ascent are you looking at?

[rv driver]

Which ascent are you looking at?
Pink and purple.

And the red/orange Misfit.

[Amyers]

Pink and purple.

And the red/orange Misfit.

Oh okay I have a friend who got the new blue apex ascent and loves it don't know anybody throwing the ones you have listed here. I have a team mate that throws the venom toxin and shock also all of the have looked good

[rv driver]

Oh okay I have a friend who got the new blue apex ascent and loves it don't know anybody throwing the ones you have listed here. I have a team mate that throws the venom toxin and shock also all of the have looked good
the Apex is quite different from the pink/purple.

[Perrin]

I don't think you would go wrong with either of those balls.

The Ascent is a great ball. Very controllable and made in Michigan. I am also a big fan of the neomark graphics process they use.

The Misfit(red/orange) I can't speak to directly. I can tell you that I really like my misfit(Orange/blue) but when I go it it was actually more ball than I expected it to be

Since the changes to the red/orange are supposed to make it a little longer and easier to control that would likely be a good choice also.



Motiv is building quite a reputation here in Illinois. The word is they are very consistent in reaction and I know several folks who have completely replaced their arsenals to Motiv.

[Aslan]

Motiv is building quite a reputation here in Illinois. The word is they are very consistent in reaction and I know several folks who have completely replaced their arsenals to Motiv.

It's hard to say. DV8 was HUGE for awhile...all the younger (teen/young adult) seemed to really like them and I think thats who they were marketed towards. Kinda like the way Hammer was many years ago. Motiv has seemed to grab that excitement/momentum now and I'm seeing more new Motiv balls than other brands (except Storm). But, that being said, Storm still seems to have a stranglehold overall. I can walk up and down the lanes on league night and I'll see a good mix of ball companies...but Storm is probably 40% or more.

They just seem to do so much better with marketing and product placement. I'm personally not a HUGE fan because I don't like the "smell gimmick"...but as far as respecting their ability to control the market from a business standpoint...it's very impressive. Pro shop guys will likely have a better take on the different companies...but if you look at product lines...it just seems like Storm has a massive array from top to bottom, all different specs, etc... Then you go to Columbia or Ebonite and they seem to have a few high end balls...some plastic stuff...and blah. And thats a shame. Because I think from an engineering and historical perspective...Ebonite, Brunswick, and Columbia are top of the line. But a person (especially a new bowler) almost has to go out of their way to bypass the Storm "machine" and consider another brand.

And as a casual bowler/purchaser...here's where I see the glaring problems:

- TRACK...I realize you brand prides itself on engineering/numbers...but naming your balls NUMBERS (512t, 621g, 714c, etc...) is STUPID. People like me (dorks) don't care...but the average person simply CANNOT relate to balls that are given numbers instead of names. Single WORST marketing strategy.

- Brunswick....the Nexxus series were great balls....with stupid names. It was too hard to figure out. I mean, you names a ball the "Nexxxus (f+p)". Thats just a dumb name. Brunswick...great company...great products...but a dumb marketing move.

- And Ebonite...don't laugh....your Pursuit and Pursuit-S...SAME problem. Then there was the "Challenge" and the "Champion". Too close! It confuses people!!

If you took the "names" from Lane #1...and put them on the actual BALLS produced by Brunswick or Ebonite or Track...I think you'd see increased sales. Lane #1 does a GREAT job with naming..."Stealth Bomber" and "Ripsaw"...but they have such low distribution and higher price points (most likely volume related) that the names are wasted.

Mini-rant over...just annoys me to see great bowling ball companies like Columbia, Ebonite, and Brunswick lose sales because or in part because they can't seem to market their way out of a paper bag. Maybe that will be their next release, "The Ebonite paper bag".

[Amyers]

A lot of what you said here is true about the names but in the end I'm not sure that it really matters track, Brunswick, and EBI are all behind on the cover stocks on the balls. The Storm and Motiv cover stocks are just better. Not saying all of those others are bad but from what everyone tells me and I spend way too much time sitting around talking bowling at the local alleys to get the consensus that Storm and Motiv take to cover stock changes and are more versatile than the other companies on the market. Storm had better watch out though I know a lot of guys who were serious Storm bowlers who are trying out Motiv and liking it.

On the Storm smells my wife has a tropical breeze and its kind of nice when you open the bag and the nice smell comes out but I wonder what it would be like if there were two different smells in the bag.

[mc_runner]

I do agree with the Track names... it's tough to tell (particularly if you don't throw them) which ball is being referred to. As someone who works in marketing, I'll say you're right on that there isn't any way to connect or identify with the brand. Whether that negatively affects their sales is another question, and at this point it's kind of their company niche.

Brunswick, Ebonite, and those guys I personally don't really see a problem with the names. A lot of the companies have a "line" of balls with similar names. Hammer Taboo Jet Black, Taboo Deep Purple, Taboo spare for instance... and the Storm Marvel, Marvel-S, Pearl etc.

[rv driver]

the Ascent has moved to my #1 short list spot. My exchange with the tech on the phone was really, really nice. She took a lot of time with me, explaining the differences in reaction, what I might expect at one weight or another, discussing my throwing style and house conditions. And she sent a couple of unsolicited follow up e-mails. If I ever had a problem or question down the line, I feel I could trust Motiv with their customer service. She seemed truly excited about the equipment and about me as a potential customer.

That being said, the DV8 guy, while not spending so much time with me, was similarly helpful and excited about his product and how I want to bowl. I just think I like the numbers and the reaction from the Motiv a little better.

OTOH, the guy I **finally** talked to at Columbia was blasé, unconcerned about me as a customer, sounded bored, gave minimal answers to my questions, and generally turned me off of Columbia as a brand. I get the feeling that they wouldn't really care about customer follow up or customer service.

Pyramid, DV8, and Motiv were extremely communicative and helpful. Storm and Roto Grip were fairly perfunctory and gave obviously "stock" answers to my questions, although they weren't so unconcerned as Columbia. Too bad for them...

[edit] The Motiv and DV8 people reminded me a lot of the folks here at bowling ball.com in the way they promptly and openly communicate.

[Perrin]

Aslan I agree to a point. The difference I am seeing though is that with DV8 guys bought 1-2 balls and then moved on to other things or back to their old stuff. With Motiv I am seeing guys replace their entire aresenals and get rid of their old equipment.

Storm has has the majority of the market for years and the lanes reflect that. It comes down alot to the new commercial that Storm has been playing... seen the most on TV finals in the last 8 years won this won that blah blah It's easy to be seen on TV the most when you are literally paying guys to throw your gear on TV. I wish I had a link to the story but it was a couple months ago. a guy qualified for a show throwing various equipment(mostly Roto if I remember correctly). Then after qualifying Storm paid him to wear their shirt and throw Storm balls on the show.

To me it's kindof like Apple's old scheme literally giving Apple computers to schools then using the fact that schools have apple computers in their advertising campaign.

I am sure the gear and balls they make are fine and I would definitely throw one if somone gave one to me but I am not so fond of the way they do business... again like Apple :)


On the Storm smells my wife has a tropical breeze and its kind of nice when you open the bag and the nice smell comes out but I wonder what it would be like if there were two different smells in the bag.

just wait until summer when you open the bag after a long hot day in the trunk of your car.... gah so overpowering it turns your stomach



for the dual smells it depends. my wife has a Cherry scented ball and my daughter has lemon cake. Thankfully those two don't clash to badly but I am sure there are some combinations that do NOT go well together.

[mc_runner]

for the dual smells it depends. my wife has a Cherry scented ball and my daughter has lemon cake. Thankfully those two don't clash to badly but I am sure there are some combinations that do NOT go well together.

I had spearmint and Blackberry? sitting in my trunk. When it's hot out particularly, they combine to form a smell in my car that I can only describe as a disgusting energy drink left out for far, far too long on a hot day.

[Amyers]

I would definitely go with the ascent from everything I have seen.

the Ascent has moved to my #1 short list spot. My exchange with the tech on the phone was really, really nice. She took a lot of time with me, explaining the differences in reaction, what I might expect at one weight or another, discussing my throwing style and house conditions. And she sent a couple of unsolicited follow up e-mails. If I ever had a problem or question down the line, I feel I could trust Motiv with their customer service. She seemed truly excited about the equipment and about me as a potential customer.

That being said, the DV8 guy, while not spending so much time with me, was similarly helpful and excited about his product and how I want to bowl. I just think I like the numbers and the reaction from the Motiv a little better.

OTOH, the guy I **finally** talked to at Columbia was blasé, unconcerned about me as a customer, sounded bored, gave minimal answers to my questions, and generally turned me off of Columbia as a brand. I get the feeling that they wouldn't really care about customer follow up or customer service.

Pyramid, DV8, and Motiv were extremely communicative and helpful. Storm and Roto Grip were fairly perfunctory and gave obviously "stock" answers to my questions, although they weren't so unconcerned as Columbia. Too bad for them...

[edit] The Motiv and DV8 people reminded me a lot of the folks here at bowling ball.com in the way they promptly and openly communicate.

[rv driver]

I had spearmint and Blackberry? sitting in my trunk. When it's hot out particularly, they combine to form a smell in my car that I can only describe as a disgusting energy drink left out for far, far too long on a hot day.
See? They need to make one in "New Car Smell," one in "Leather," and one in "Pine." Then they could make your car smell good.

[rv driver]

The difference I am seeing though is that with DV8 guys bought 1-2 balls and then moved on to other things or back to their old stuff. With Motiv I am seeing guys replace their entire aresenals and get rid of their old equipment.
I've heard the same thing from other sources, as well. We don't have a Motiv dealer where I live, so not a lot of Motiv on the lanes -- a lot of Hammer and Storm -- but Motiv is picking up a good reputation. I've not seen another Ascent here, so it wouldn't be one of 250 Storm Tropical Breezes...

I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on this one.

[rv driver]

I don't think you would go wrong with either of those balls.

The Ascent is a great ball. Very controllable and made in Michigan. I am also a big fan of the neomark graphics process they use.

The Misfit(red/orange) I can't speak to directly. I can tell you that I really like my misfit(Orange/blue) but when I go it it was actually more ball than I expected it to be

Since the changes to the red/orange are supposed to make it a little longer and easier to control that would likely be a good choice also.



Motiv is building quite a reputation here in Illinois. The word is they are very consistent in reaction and I know several folks who have completely replaced their arsenals to Motiv.
Sooo... the question then becomes: "Would you buy the Misfit all over again?"

[Stormed1]

Last year when I was messing around and changing my fir I sold or traded my Motiv arsenal and tried a few different brands. I liked the Disturbed, Fusion and Diva I drilled . That being said I have been rebuilding my arsenal with all Motiv pieces. So far I have drilled a Primal rage,Tribal, Venom Shock, Ascent Pearl and Recon to go along with my Sniper spare ball. Over the next few weeks I will be drilling an Ascent Apex,Octane,Tribal Fire, Sigma Sting and Covert Revolt. Plus another Venom Shock and another Toxin (to replace the one I sold

[Amyers]

Stormed I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but is it really necessary to have every ball they make?

[Mike White]

Stormed I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but is it really necessary to have every ball they make?

It's called addiction.

[Amyers]

Last year when I was messing around and changing my fir I sold or traded my Motiv arsenal and tried a few different brands. I liked the Disturbed, Fusion and Diva I drilled . That being said I have been rebuilding my arsenal with all Motiv pieces. So far I have drilled a Primal rage,Tribal, Venom Shock, Ascent Pearl and Recon to go along with my Sniper spare ball. Over the next few weeks I will be drilling an Ascent Apex,Octane,Tribal Fire, Sigma Sting and Covert Revolt. Plus another Venom Shock and another Toxin (to replace the one I sold

They other issue with this is it really possible that Motiv makes the best ball at each one of these positions? Maybe Stormed is a staffer and has to use their equipment I don't know. I really like a lot of what Motiv is doing but I don't think they could possibly make the best ball at each of the conditions theses balls are meant to play

[Aslan]

Stormed I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but is it really necessary to have every ball they make?

Thats another reason he likes Motiv. Imagine how many balls he'd have to buy if he was addicted to Storm.


It's easy to be seen on TV the most when you are literally paying guys to throw your gear on TV. I wish I had a link to the story but it was a couple months ago. a guy qualified for a show throwing various equipment(mostly Roto if I remember correctly). Then after qualifying Storm paid him to wear their shirt and throw Storm balls on the show.

Agreed. But…you also have to give them credit for stepping up and sponsoring players. If companies like Motiv or Lane #1 or Lord Field or Seismic was a bit more aggressive with sponsorships…I'm sure they could get quite a bit more attention, sales, etc… I'm sure these companies all have bowlers they sponsor at some level…but they really need to step up and get some of the big guys if they want that type of exposure. AND…it helps the game when they sponsor pros…so it's win/win.

It'd be nice to have a "manufacturers cup" where all usbc approved ball manufacturers can create a 5-man team and they have a tournament once a year where the manufacturer teams face off. That would be a nice little event, decent money involved, and I would think be something the manufacturers could really use in terms of marketing. Kinda like car companies use car racing wins/titles to point to how fast their cars are or how well engineered.

[RobLV1]

Many bowlers choose to use one brand of equipment exclusively for the simple reason that companies tell us about the cores in their balls; low rg, differential, shape, etc., but they only use marketing rhetoric to describe their cover materials. Personally, I've recently changed from Storm/Roto to Brunswick for the simple reason that I know that Brunswick balls give you better read in the oil and Storm balls are more reactive to friction. Before anyone goes ballistic, this is based on my own observations only. Anyway, as I've become more comfortable playing around the third arrow than I am playing around the second arrow, I switched over to balls that serve me better in this area.

By staying with one line of balls, I believe that you can better gauge the differences between the balls based on the core specs when cover material differences are kept to a minimum.

[Amyers]

Many bowlers choose to use one brand of equipment exclusively for the simple reason that companies tell us about the cores in their balls; low rg, differential, shape, etc., but they only use marketing rhetoric to describe their cover materials. Personally, I've recently changed from Storm/Roto to Brunswick for the simple reason that I know that Brunswick balls give you better read in the oil and Storm balls are more reactive to friction. Before anyone goes ballistic, this is based on my own observations only. Anyway, as I've become more comfortable playing around the third arrow than I am playing around the second arrow, I switched over to balls that serve me better in this area.

By staying with one line of balls, I believe that you can better gauge the differences between the balls based on the core specs when cover material differences are kept to a minimum.

Rob I believe with most companies you would be correct but Motiv actually uses more than just 1 or 2 cover stocks. Storm basically puts a version of R2S on just about everything or it feels that way to me. I'm pretty sure Motiv is using at least 4 different cover stocks. Seems like the cores are more similar than the covers with them.

[Aslan]

They other issue with this is it really possible that Motiv makes the best ball at each one of these positions? Maybe Stormed is a staffer and has to use their equipment I don't know. I really like a lot of what Motiv is doing but I don't think they could possibly make the best ball at each of the conditions theses balls are meant to play Probably not.

I mean, I think I've said it before…I think the Storm IQ "series" would be the best "series" to build an arsenal around. Even though I'm not a huge "Ra RA RA Storm" guy…that SERIES…is in my opinion the best. A close second would be the Brunsiwick Aura series. And I base that, since I have no allegiances, on observations about what high level bowlers are throwing and how well guys tend to do with that equipment. Not so much the highest level pros….because they could do well with any seres. But if you look at Pro Shop guys and lower level pros…big tournament players…the IQ and Aura series have been very successful more often than not.

The problem with some of these companies is they may have a good top level ball or series (Columbia, Ebonite) or they may have really good entry level stuff (Storm) but they most likely will have "gaps" in their product line. Storm is rather unique, due to their market share (which was publicized as 30% back in 2012) in that they have a great array of products at all levels and have multiple levels. The smaller companies seem to have more streamlined stuff…where they may have a really nice line of lets say symmetric core balls at the mid-level price point…but their upper level stuff is "so-so" and they don't really have much between plastic and mid/upper.

And to be fair…thats to be EXPECTED because many of these ball makers are owned by the same company. When companies buy each other, they reduce redundancies in order to maximize profits. So if Ebonite owns Track, Hammer, and Columbia…they may figure Ebonite doesn't really need entry level stuff because Columbia has that covered. And they may not have a great mid-level in Track or Ebonite because Hammer has some good entry and mid to upper level stuff.

And it's not just sponsorships (or scent) that has marketed Storm into the top position (with a bullet). Storm also puts up mucho bucks to sponsor ABT tournaments…and offers quite a bit of money in bounties if you exclusively roll/wear their products. The difference in final payout can be as much as $1000 just by choosing to (or choosing not to) wear Storm stuff and throw their balls. Storm knows, that if they can get their stuff in the hands of bowlers…bowlers tend to have long memories and decent brand loyalty. We see it here on this website ALL the time when a new guy comes in with the "What ball should I buy?" question and usually they have a disclaimer in their question "I really want to stay with Hammer"…or "I want to stick with DV8". Again…I'm not a big "Storm guy"…but I have mad respect for their ability to completely out market their competition and even keep the "shiny new guys" like DV8, Motiv, or Radical from really gaining too much of a foothold.

[fsbjcm]

For my own curiousity, I'd like to know what the consensus is on Storm balls. I came to bowling from golf, where Taylor Made sells the most woods by a mile. But that doesn't mean they are the best in my opinion, just that they pay the most and have the most pros. People want to emulate the pros, so they buy TaylorMade drivers. I've always wondered if that's the case here, or if Storm really just makes the best balls by a mile, because I'd say 2 out of 3 people I see on TV are throwing Storm equipment. Is it the same deal? Anybody know?

[Perrin]

Sooo... the question then becomes: "Would you buy the Misfit all over again?"


Most definitely.

although knowing what I know now i would have had it drilled a little differently :) (I had the span shortened and the balnace hole moved last summer)

I currently have a 4 ball arsenal, Meanstreak beatdown, Misfit, slingshot, and T-zone

My beatdown I use on medium-heavy and longer oil patterns, The misfit on a little less oil or when the beatdown isn't quite making the corner (they are drilled differntly and have differnet surfaces) the Slingshot is for even lighter oil and more angle than the misfit and the T-zone is for right side spares and very short/dry patterns

actually shot 236 with the T-Zone last week in league. the looks people were giving me were hilarious... playing plastic across 10 at the arrows out to 4-6 and having it come back and kill the pocket :)


sorry for the side story. anyway to me all of those balls are great just for different purposes. I would not have wanted a ball as strong as the Beatdown when I came back to the sport and the slingshot would have been too weak for one of the houses I play at on a consistent basis.(41 feet 21 units of oil is the house shot there)


The most important factor is getting a driller that knows his business and will work with you to get what you want.

[Perrin]

Thats another reason he likes Motiv. Imagine how many balls he'd have to buy if he was addicted to Storm.



Agreed. But…you also have to give them credit for stepping up and sponsoring players. If companies like Motiv or Lane #1 or Lord Field or Seismic was a bit more aggressive with sponsorships…I'm sure they could get quite a bit more attention, sales, etc… I'm sure these companies all have bowlers they sponsor at some level…but they really need to step up and get some of the big guys if they want that type of exposure. AND…it helps the game when they sponsor pros…so it's win/win.

It'd be nice to have a "manufacturers cup" where all usbc approved ball manufacturers can create a 5-man team and they have a tournament once a year where the manufacturer teams face off. That would be a nice little event, decent money involved, and I would think be something the manufacturers could really use in terms of marketing. Kinda like car companies use car racing wins/titles to point to how fast their cars are or how well engineered.

But that's my point.... they didn't sponsor that player.... they swooped in after he made it to the show and then paid him to throw their equipment for that show... not a sponsorsip just a one time limited engagement deal.

I agree I would love to see a manufacturers cup. different patterns/volumes so they can show off the full range of their equipment.

[Aslan]

Rob I believe with most companies you would be correct but Motiv actually uses more than just 1 or 2 cover stocks. Storm basically puts a version of R2S on just about everything or it feels that way to me. I'm pretty sure Motiv is using at least 4 different cover stocks. Seems like the cores are more similar than the covers with them.

I think I agree with Rob's overall point, that as you become a higher level bowler you tend to find a brand that reacts consistently a way you like. I've heard more than one person talk about how Storm/Roto seem to have more "sticky" overstocks which many people like because they tend to "grab". I've heard that Brunswick cover stocks tend to almost be more dense or "harder" and don't have that same reaction.

I think it's more advanced of a concept than most bowlers need to consider (sticking with one brand) because quite frankly…it's like this:

A new bowler is like a guy that owns a used Honda Civic. One day he decides to step up and get a bigger car. No matter what he gets, (Accord Camry, Fusion, Malibu, etc…) he's going to notice an improvement/difference. Where as a more experienced/higher level bowler is more like a former Nascar driver that drives a Camry and he's not going to switch to an Accord because he feels that the engine timing in the Camry is better suited to how he drives than the Accord engine timing. Lower level bowlers actually buy balls based on such stupid things as:

A) Smell
B) Color
C) Cool sounding name
D) Matches the brand of roller bag they already own.
E) Price <----had to be fair and add this one since it nearly 95% drives my decisions. I LOVE DEALS!!

So if a guy buys a Motiv because it's Fluorescent green and has a snake imprinted on it…he's probably not making arsenal decisions based on the overstock chemistry and slight differences in reactions brand to brand.

[Perrin]

For my own curiousity, I'd like to know what the consensus is on Storm balls. I came to bowling from golf, where Taylor Made sells the most woods by a mile. But that doesn't mean they are the best in my opinion, just that they pay the most and have the most pros. People want to emulate the pros, so they buy TaylorMade drivers. I've always wondered if that's the case here, or if Storm really just makes the best balls by a mile, because I'd say 2 out of 3 people I see on TV are throwing Storm equipment. Is it the same deal? Anybody know?

Same deal. They put the most money into being visible and pay the most pros an people like to throw the ball they see on the broadcasts.


*side note sorry for the multiple posts I am responding to things in order

[Amyers]

I agree with Storm's Tour line all of those balls look great. A lot of the upper level guys in my leagues are throwing something from that line thought about one myself. I haven't seen anyone here playing Brunswick period I guess they aren't big in this area. I would say from what I see its about 40% Storm/Roto, 20% Motiv, and about 20% throwing older Hammer stuff (usually not the top level people) with the remainder being a mix.

Storms marketing is masterful between what the do with pro/tournaments stuff and their match maker try out program I think it really gives them an advantage over everyone else. I did see an advertisement the other day for Hammer doing something similar to the match maker program first I had seen of that from anybody else.

[Aslan]

I came to bowling from golf, where Taylor Made sells the most woods by a mile.

Think of it like this. In golf…many of the better golfers prefer a brand of clubs and a brand of golf balls. The "better golfers" I've golfed with were what I'd call "golf ball snobs" in that they HAD TO hit Nike balls or Taylor Made balls or otherwise they just wouldn't play.

Yet study after study after study has shown that golf ball technology isn't that much of a variation from brand to brand. And the only people that can truly take advantage of those slight differences…are on the PGA tour. It doesn't matter what ball you hit to most golfers…because every 3rd shot is going to hit a cart bath, a rock, or a tree…so just buy something on sale.

Most bowlers witha 175 average or less…can't hit their mark with a 1-2 board degree of accuracy….so the differences in ball specs much less difference from manufacturer to manufacturer…not going to be noticeable. IMO

[Amyers]

For my own curiousity, I'd like to know what the consensus is on Storm balls. I came to bowling from golf, where Taylor Made sells the most woods by a mile. But that doesn't mean they are the best in my opinion, just that they pay the most and have the most pros. People want to emulate the pros, so they buy TaylorMade drivers. I've always wondered if that's the case here, or if Storm really just makes the best balls by a mile, because I'd say 2 out of 3 people I see on TV are throwing Storm equipment. Is it the same deal? Anybody know?

This just comes from what I see on the lanes and read about online I'm sure there will be a lot of other opinions on this but If you are looking top to bottom I believe storm has the best mix of midrange to upper range pieces on the market right now. They also tend to be more flexible than a lot of other companies offerings work on more conditions. I believe every manufacture has at least a couple of good balls out right now but a lot of the other ball companies seem to produce more condition specific pieces or at least they turn out that way. I would also say Motiv is #2 and it is very close really liking a lot of what I see there even though there is not a pro shop in the area that really focuses on them the way they do with Storm/Roto or EBI(Track, Hammer, Colombia) The amount of stuff I'm seeing on the lanes from them seem to grow every week.

My question is if you could take the best from each company could you build a better arsenal than you could from Storm/Roto? I think probably so but you would end up with some stuff you didn't like too.

This is for Aslan I know your a big Brunswick fan have you seen the video for the new Forterra Exile yet? It looks awesome

[rv driver]

I think I agree with Rob's overall point, that as you become a higher level bowler you tend to find a brand that reacts consistently a way you like. I've heard more than one person talk about how Storm/Roto seem to have more "sticky" overstocks which many people like because they tend to "grab". I've heard that Brunswick cover stocks tend to almost be more dense or "harder" and don't have that same reaction.

I think it's more advanced of a concept than most bowlers need to consider (sticking with one brand) because quite frankly…it's like this:

A new bowler is like a guy that owns a used Honda Civic. One day he decides to step up and get a bigger car. No matter what he gets, (Accord Camry, Fusion, Malibu, etc…) he's going to notice an improvement/difference. Where as a more experienced/higher level bowler is more like a former Nascar driver that drives a Camry and he's not going to switch to an Accord because he feels that the engine timing in the Camry is better suited to how he drives than the Accord engine timing. Lower level bowlers actually buy balls based on such stupid things as:

A) Smell
B) Color
C) Cool sounding name
D) Matches the brand of roller bag they already own.
E) Price <----had to be fair and add this one since it nearly 95% drives my decisions. I LOVE DEALS!!

So if a guy buys a Motiv because it's Fluorescent green and has a snake imprinted on it…he's probably not making arsenal decisions based on the overstock chemistry and slight differences in reactions brand to brand.
I wonder if some houses actually tailor their lane dressing to what will work best with certain balls, and then contract with the companies to promote and sell those particular balls?

[edit]: Stoopid auto-correct corrected "tailor" to "taylor." I have corrected the auto-correct in this regard.

[Aslan]

This is for Aslan I know your a big Brunswick fan have you seen the video for the new Forterra Exile yet? It looks awesome

I have not.

[Amyers]

I have not.

Here you go I know you were a fan of the aura.

http://youtu.be/rOWDB-Tb43M

[Aslan]

Here you go I know you were a fan of the aura.

Yes. The Aura Mystic is my dream ball. I wanted to get it at 14lb and experiment with lower weights. But, even though it HAS come down significantly in price, just never enough for me to rush out and get one. But if I won some "ball of my choice" contest...thats the one I'd get.

Just not sure though given my current 12-ball stockpile. At this point I'm trying to stay away from assymetric pearls or hybrids because I have so many of them. Any assymetric core pearl or hybrid I get will likely spend most of the next few years in my closet waiting it's "turn". Where as, I have relatively few symmetric core balls so getting one of those would find it's way to use a little faster. So it would make more sense to get a RotoGrip Rumble, a Storm Hy Road, or a DV8 Dude to fill some "holes" in future arsenals. Thats why the Asylum I won will actually get used much sooner than some of the other balls I have in my closet (closet of destiny as I like to call it)...because it's symmetric core and a perfect replacement for the 900 Global Bullet Train once I transition to 15lbs from 16lbs.

But year, I don't see anything special with the Forterra Exile. Their Nexxxus balls were impressive. I think their Aura line is second only to Storm's IQ line in terms of an "overall line". And I think their Mastermind and Mastermind Genius are impressive. But I wouldn't say I'm any more of a Brunswick fan than any other company. Like I said before, despite not liking the smell gimmick, I'm most impressed with the RotoGrip/Storm brand than any other.

[Amyers]

I don't know for some reason the exile looked special to me not sure what it is I'm a big fan of storms line too

[rv driver]

Yes. The Aura Mystic is my dream ball. I wanted to get it at 14lb and experiment with lower weights. But, even though it HAS come down significantly in price, just never enough for me to rush out and get one. But if I won some "ball of my choice" contest...thats the one I'd get.

Just not sure though given my current 12-ball stockpile. At this point I'm trying to stay away from assymetric pearls or hybrids because I have so many of them. Any assymetric core pearl or hybrid I get will likely spend most of the next few years in my closet waiting it's "turn". Where as, I have relatively few symmetric core balls so getting one of those would find it's way to use a little faster. So it would make more sense to get a RotoGrip Rumble, a Storm Hy Road, or a DV8 Dude to fill some "holes" in future arsenals. Thats why the Asylum I won will actually get used much sooner than some of the other balls I have in my closet (closet of destiny as I like to call it)...because it's symmetric core and a perfect replacement for the 900 Global Bullet Train once I transition to 15lbs from 16lbs.

But year, I don't see anything special with the Forterra Exile. Their Nexxxus balls were impressive. I think their Aura line is second only to Storm's IQ line in terms of an "overall line". And I think their Mastermind and Mastermind Genius are impressive. But I wouldn't say I'm any more of a Brunswick fan than any other company. Like I said before, despite not liking the smell gimmick, I'm most impressed with the RotoGrip/Storm brand than any other.
You could open your own store...

[Aslan]

You could open your own store...

I'll put it to you this way. I have more balls in my closet than MWhite has presently on the wall in his pro shop.

Granted, he has all the new brands and can get them in any weights you want where as mine are in 15lb and 16lb weights only and are ball released from 2011-2013. However, I could sell each one for say $80 and I'd make a profit.

Soon the number will drop from 11 to 9. I'm having MWhite drill me up a couple beauties...probably late July. I'd like to have a mini arsenal by the time the Fall league starts....hopefully in time for sweeps. Maybe get another one drilled up end of the year; drop down to 8.

The issue is...it's hard NOT to buy more. There's two very nice, high end balls I have my eye on right now...that I DON'T need...but man, when you're offering a pro performance level, top of the line ball...that 1 month ago was $159 and 3 months ago was $209...and now it can be had for a mere $89?? I mean...thats really, REALLY hard to pass on. We're talking about balls with an MSRP of $209-$279 that are selling right now on bowlingball.com for $99-$159...and can be had elsewhere for as low as $89!! Free shipping, first quality, all that!

I mean, (to promote this lovely site), if you go on bowlingball.com right NOW...you can get an Ebonite Champion (Pro-Series level, released last year, used by Ebonite pros on the tour) in 14lb, 15lb, or 16lbs for $99.99 shipped! That is a HELLuva deal!! That ball was released LAST year. It is STILL listed at the top of the Ebonite website (thus not retired) as one of their 3 high performance balls. Thats a HIGH PERFORMANCE...Ebonite (usually not cheap)...FIRST quality...free shipping....UNDER $100. LESS than what you'd pay for an entry level Tropical Breeze off the shelf or some plastic ball.

As a lover of bargains...it is THESE type of things that lead me to not be able to truly take full advantage of my walk-in closet!!

[rv driver]

I'll put it to you this way. I have more balls in my closet than MWhite has presently on the wall in his pro shop.

Granted, he has all the new brands and can get them in any weights you want where as mine are in 15lb and 16lb weights only and are ball released from 2011-2013. However, I could sell each one for say $80 and I'd make a profit.

Soon the number will drop from 11 to 9. I'm having MWhite drill me up a couple beauties...probably late July. I'd like to have a mini arsenal by the time the Fall league starts....hopefully in time for sweeps. Maybe get another one drilled up end of the year; drop down to 8.

The issue is...it's hard NOT to buy more. There's two very nice, high end balls I have my eye on right now...that I DON'T need...but man, when you're offering a pro performance level, top of the line ball...that 1 month ago was $159 and 3 months ago was $209...and now it can be had for a mere $89?? I mean...thats really, REALLY hard to pass on. We're talking about balls with an MSRP of $209-$279 that are selling right now on bowlingball.com for $99-$159...and can be had elsewhere for as low as $89!! Free shipping, first quality, all that!

I mean, (to promote this lovely site), if you go on bowlingball.com right NOW...you can get an Ebonite Champion (Pro-Series level, released last year, used by Ebonite pros on the tour) in 14lb, 15lb, or 16lbs for $99.99 shipped! That is a HELLuva deal!! That ball was released LAST year. It is STILL listed at the top of the Ebonite website (thus not retired) as one of their 3 high performance balls. Thats a HIGH PERFORMANCE...Ebonite (usually not cheap)...FIRST quality...free shipping....UNDER $100. LESS than what you'd pay for an entry level Tropical Breeze off the shelf or some plastic ball.

As a lover of bargains...it is THESE type of things that lead me to not be able to truly take full advantage of my walk-in closet!!
Yeah... hoarders often use the "bargain -- too good to pass up" excuse...

[Aslan]

Yeah... hoarders often use the "bargain -- too good to pass up" excuse...

Thats actually true. :eek:

[rv driver]

Thats actually true. :eek:
I can see the headline now: Local Man's House Collapses From Weight -- Bowling Balls At Fault In the wee hours, a massive crash is heard as the the house comes down from too much weight. Bowling balls scatter throughout the neighborhood; down streets, along sidewalks. And Poor Aslan trying to chase them all down the block in his bunny slippers crying, "Noooo!!! Not my precious balls!!!"

[tccstudent]

I can see the headline now: Local Man's House Collapses From Weight -- Bowling Balls At Fault In the wee hours, a massive crash is heard as the the house comes down from too much weight. Bowling balls scatter throughout the neighborhood; down streets, along sidewalks. And Poor Aslan trying to chase them all down the block in his bunny slippers crying, "Noooo!!! Not my precious balls!!!"

I dont think thats what Aslan would say its pretty close though. He would only say two words over and over very creepily "My precious."

[rv driver]

I dont think thats what Aslan would say its pretty close though. He would only say two words over and over very creepily "My precious."
ROFLMAO!!! Of course he would!