Noobie question

[rv driver]

I pm'd a member with this question, and he suggested that I post it here for everyone. There may be Noobies out there with similar questions, and the answer(s) may be helpful to more folks than just myself.

I'm going to buy a bowling ball through Bowler's X. I've decided on a Motiv Ascent pearl, which sells from the manufacturer for about $130 and is not available through Bowlingball.com. :( (It's $92 through Bowlers X.)

On the Bowler X page where you buy the ball, besides the obvious "what weight do you want" option, there are two other options: "pin height" and "top weight." These options aren't available on the Motiv page, so I'm assuming that it's not some "factory option," where you can order one of several "types" of pearl Ascent, but is rather something that happens "afetermarket?" Like a customization or something? It's also not an option on the Bowlingball.com site. There's no explanation on the Bowler's X site.

1) Should I concern myself with these options?
2) What are "pin height" and "top weight?" Are they merely markings or instructions for drilling?
3) Are they, indeed, different "models" of the same ball -- different "configurations," so to speak -- that happen at the factory?

I've never heard these terms before and don't know what I'm dealing with. Some explanation from a ball-savvy person would be helpful for the woefully ignorant and overly-curious. :confused:

[vdubtx]

#1 Yes you should concern yourself with this. Maybe get some input from pro shop before ordering.
#2 Copy pasta

"All bowling balls have different pin distances out from the CG and various top weights. Usually your pro shop professional will decide what specifics he wants based on your span, relative to where he wants to place the pin and cg and if he wants to use a balance hole. These specifics aren’t necessary for the consumers to choose, but we allow you to pick what you want and we fill all orders exact or as close as possible based on availability.

Pin Position – The pin distance describes how far the pin and the cg are apart. A pin-in ball is where the pin and cg are any where from 0-1” apart. A pin-out ball is where the pin and cg are any where from 1” + apart.

Example #1: Balls with a 0-1” pin will get the ball into a slightly earlier roll with slightly less flare potential.

Example #2: Balls with a 3-4” pin out will give the ball slightly more length and more flare potential than the ball in example 1.

Top Weight – The amount of imbalance placed in the bowling ball to offset the removal of weight from the gripping holes. Average top weight ranges from 2-4 oz.

Example #1: Balls with 2 oz or less top weight will get the ball into a slightly earlier roll.

Example #2 Balls with 2 oz or more top weight will give the ball slightly more length than the ball in example 1."

#3 Yes, indeed there are different variations of pin and top weight to satisfy the needs of many bowlers. Not everyone has same specs etc.

All of my balls have 3.5-4" pins.

[rv driver]

#1 Yes you should concern yourself with this.
#2 Copy pasta

"All bowling balls have different pin distances out from the CG and various top weights. Usually your pro shop professional will decide what specifics he wants based on your span, relative to where he wants to place the pin and cg and if he wants to use a balance hole. These specifics aren’t necessary for the consumers to choose, but we allow you to pick what you want and we fill all orders exact or as close as possible based on availability.

Pin Position – The pin distance describes how far the pin and the cg are apart. A pin-in ball is where the pin and cg are any where from 0-1” apart. A pin-out ball is where the pin and cg are any where from 1” + apart.

Example #1: Balls with a 0-1” pin will get the ball into a slightly earlier roll with slightly less flare potential.

Example #2: Balls with a 3-4” pin out will give the ball slightly more length and more flare potential than the ball in example 1.

Top Weight – The amount of imbalance placed in the bowling ball to offset the removal of weight from the gripping holes. Average top weight ranges from 2-4 oz.

Example #1: Balls with 2 oz or less top weight will get the ball into a slightly earlier roll.

Example #2 Balls with 2 oz or more top weight will give the ball slightly more length than the ball in example 1."

#3 Yes, indeed there are different variations of pin and top weight to satisfy the needs of many bowlers. Not everyone has same specs etc.

All of my balls have 3.5-4" pins.
Thanks, Vdub! But are those choices actually different balls that come that way, undrilled, from the factory, or is the pin height and top weight some magic that the driller performs on the same base ball, drilled for different people? In other words, when I'm ordering the ball, undrilled, do I need to specify pin height and top weight, because I'll actually be getting a completely different ball, based upon my choices? Or will I get a "Motiv Ascent Pearl," and then the driller will manipulate a pin height and top weight from that prototype ball?

I don't know why I'm so confused about this, but it's driving me nuts!

[edit] If the ball comes one of a myriad different ways from the manufacturer, why don't the manufacturers' pages give you this option? Why doesn't Bowlingball.com?

[vdubtx]

The manufacturer creates balls with varying pin and top weights. But, if you order one and need a 1-2" pin but get a 3-4", the ball driller can make changes to the drilling so it will work for you. The pin and top weight are both minor adjustments that can be adjusted by a driller.

[rv driver]

The manufacturer creates balls with varying pin and top weights. But, if you order one and need a 1-2" pin but get a 3-4", the ball driller can make changes to the drilling so it will work for you. The pin and top weight are both minor adjustments that can be adjusted by a driller.
I see. it's beginning to make sense now! I wonder why the manufacturers don't list that option??

[Amyers]

I pm'd a member with this question, and he suggested that I post it here for everyone. There may be Noobies out there with similar questions, and the answer(s) may be helpful to more folks than just myself.

I'm going to buy a bowling ball through Bowler's X. I've decided on a Motiv Ascent pearl, which sells from the manufacturer for about $130 and is not available through Bowlingball.com. :( (It's $92 through Bowlers X.)

On the Bowler X page where you buy the ball, besides the obvious "what weight do you want" option, there are two other options: "pin height" and "top weight." These options aren't available on the Motiv page, so I'm assuming that it's not some "factory option," where you can order one of several "types" of pearl Ascent, but is rather something that happens "afetermarket?" Like a customization or something? It's also not an option on the Bowlingball.com site. There's no explanation on the Bowler's X site.

1) Should I concern myself with these options?
2) What are "pin height" and "top weight?" Are they merely markings or instructions for drilling?
3) Are they, indeed, different "models" of the same ball -- different "configurations," so to speak -- that happen at the factory?

I've never heard these terms before and don't know what I'm dealing with. Some explanation from a ball-savvy person would be helpful for the woefully ignorant and overly-curious. :confused:

RV have you talked with the person who will be drilling this ball for you? this is just my personal situation I always talk with my pro-shop first. I let them know what I am looking at and give me a price for the ball drilled and just to drill the ball. I also let them know what price I'm looking at online. If they can match it or beat it with what they are going to charge to drill included I buy from them happens a lot. Sometimes he tells me I can't buy it at that price I order it online and take it to them and I ask what they need to do the drilling he has picked for the ball in and top weight wise.

Some things you should be aware of ordering online that I have learned spending too much time sitting around the pro shop at my home alley.

#1. If you by the ball online and it cracks during drilling its a you problem not a them problem
#2. I have had my pro shop do a lot of extras form me in adjusting my grip angles and things like that for the balls I have bought from them and they don't charge me (just recently slugged and re-drilled my thumb with different angles twice) didn't charge me a dime for it would have been about $40 don't think that would have happened if I hadn't bought from them.

Online can save you some money but is pisses some of these guys off too so make sure you know what your getting into before you buy.

[rv driver]

RV have you talked with the person who will be drilling this ball for you? this is just my personal situation I always talk with my pro-shop first. I let them know what I am looking at and give me a price for the ball drilled and just to drill the ball. I also let them know what price I'm looking at online. If they can match it or beat it with what they are going to charge to drill included I buy from them happens a lot. Sometimes he tells me I can't buy it at that price I order it online and take it to them and I ask what they need to do the drilling he has picked for the ball in and top weight wise.

Some things you should be aware of ordering online that I have learned spending too much time sitting around the pro shop at my home alley.

#1. If you by the ball online and it cracks during drilling its a you problem not a them problem
#2. I have had my pro shop do a lot of extras form me in adjusting my grip angles and things like that for the balls I have bought from them and they don't charge me (just recently slugged and re-drilled my thumb with different angles twice) didn't charge me a dime for it would have been about $40 don't think that would have happened if I hadn't bought from them.

Online can save you some money but is pisses some of these guys off too so make sure you know what your getting into before you buy.
I've spent some time with the house pro, but not with this particular ball. My center is not a Motiv dealer, so I'd have to order it online.

However, what you say is important. Perhaps I'd be better off buying a different brand from him. If so, that puts the Freeze and the Misfit back on the table...

[Amyers]

RV

Talk with him and explain you really like this ball he maybe completely cool with it my guy is others I have talked with are not. Just make sure you understand his rules before you buy and can live with them. If you can great if you can't it may be time to pick a different ball or pick another driller. I'm surprised he can't order one even if he isn't a dealer for that brand a lot of these guys purchase through wholesalers for the brands they don't have relationships with.

[rv driver]

RV

Talk with him and explain you really like this ball he maybe completely cool with it my guy is others I have talked with are not. Just make sure you understand his rules before you buy and can live with them. If you can great if you can't it may be time to pick a different ball or pick another driller. I'm surprised he can't order one even if he isn't a dealer for that brand a lot of these guys purchase through wholesalers for the brands they don't have relationships with.
Hey! There's an idea. I didn't know they could do that.

[tccstudent]

RV
Knowing that you are in Springfield where the proshop prices and damn near the same as internet pricing. I may just pick something that he carries.
Once you buy that ball you are going to spend 92 plus shipping then 50-70 to have it drilled. That is going to make it higher than any ball in that proshop drilled.

[vdubtx]

plus shipping then 50-70 to have it drilled

BowlerX.com and bowlingball.com both offer free shipping on everything. But, I agree, by the time you factor in $70 or so for drilling, you are already pretty close to what the pro shops offer them for.

[tccstudent]

BowlerX.com and bowlingball.com both offer free shipping on everything. But, I agree, by the time you factor in $70 or so for drilling, you are already pretty close to what the pro shops offer them for.

his proshop is by far the cheapest I have ever seen a top of the line ball there is 60 dollars cheaper then any proshop in Tulsa

[rv driver]

RV
Knowing that you are in Springfield where the proshop prices and damn near the same as internet pricing. I may just pick something that he carries.
Once you buy that ball you are going to spend 92 plus shipping then 50-70 to have it drilled. That is going to make it higher than any ball in that proshop drilled.
I want to say that Dave will drill a ball for $35. he factors in that price to the total when purchasing a ball. Seeing as how the Misfit and Ascent were running sort of neck-and-neck, and since Dave carries DV8, I think I'll check with him on the price of a Misfit. They're running $78 on Bowler's X. $125 at the pro shop, drilled, would put it in the same ball park, keep Dave happy, and get me a bowling ball and drilling that Dave will warranty. He also carries Columbia -- and I was interested in the Freeze, so I could check those out, too. They're all three fairly close in spec...

[rv driver]

his proshop is by far the cheapest I have ever seen a top of the line ball there is 60 dollars cheaper then any proshop in Tulsa
Yeah, Dave's very, very reasonable -- and if there's a problem, or a tweak, he takes care of it free-of-charge.

And I've known the owner, Steve, since 1980, when he was drilling for another local center and drilled my old AMF S3D Classic.

[Aslan]

Online can save you some money but is pisses some of these guys off too so make sure you know what your getting into before you buy.

As an illustration;

My first ball; I could have gotten for $89.95 (free shipping) online.

Instead, I bought it from the local pro shop and paid about $112 total. That was drilled, and he gave me a couple lessons, and on occasion has given me free towels, hand powder, and even done free/reduced polishing/resurfacing.

Had I bought it online and taken it to him to drill...he'd have charged another $25 minimum...so I'd have paid about $114.95 PLUS I don't think he'd have been as accomodating about the "free stuff".

But thats for a lower end ball. If I buy my daughter a Tropical Breeze...probably will do the same thing and get it from him, he'll get it all set up right...keep the relationship strong.

BUT....the reason I've bought a LOT of balls ONLINE is actually quite simple:

1) I buy older bowling balls...discontinued balls. I get them at 70% off retail. Even IF the pro shop guy could match the price and find a discontinued ball for me...he's likely not going to want to go through all that and will just suggest a non-discontinued model at a higher price.

2) As is well known, I buy a lot of balls that are on clearance but I have no immediate plans to drill them. Most of the time I'll get a $159 ball for $70 and then take it to MWhite and he'll drill it up for say $35-$45. I STILL save money AND I can have the balls drilled whenever it suits me.

And what must be mentioned here is...not all pro shops are "reasonable". I've seen pro shops selling balls for $219 and adding as much as $55 for drilling....yet you can get that same ball online for $129. I think it's important if you buy from a local pro shop that if they have bowling balls over $200...that you KNOW you can get cheaper online...that they offer free drilling when you purchase from them. Offering free drilling when you buy from them is a great way to sell products at a little higher price point than online, but still getting a lot of business.

Also, it's a "relationship" thing. I remember telling my local pro I wanted to get a Slingshot before they all dried up (they were discontinued). He said I didn't really need one. I then told him I'd like to get a ball that would hook more than the Frantic and he said he wouldn't sell me a ball until I learned/practiced with the one I already had. And I hate to "argue" with the guy because he's treated me very well in our dealings. But he's a guy that stuck in his ways...and he believes people should bowl a certain way and thats that. I've seen the frustration in his face when I've talked about moving laterally or developing lateral tilt or pretty much anything like that. He just shrugs his shoulders and says, "just throw the ball. thats all you need to do. everyone wants to overcomplicate things." I remember asking him how many boards he moves before adjusting his target and he was like, "I don't adjust my target. I move laterally...I leave my target in the same place for the entire night."

He's definitely NOT a kind of coach that is going to let you develop your own style. And he runs hsi pro shop that way as well. He's not a guy thats gonna be guilty of selling people things they don't need...thats for sure! He'll make you beg to sell you stuff if he doesn't think it's necessary. And thats the advantage of a bowlerx or a bowlingball.com...I never ONCE got an email from them telling me they cancelled my order because they "don't think I need that ball or wrist support or whatever".

[vdubtx]

And thats the advantage of a bowlerx or a bowlingball.com...I never ONCE got an email from them telling me they cancelled my order because they "don't think I need that ball or wrist support or whatever".

So true. All of my accessories and tape etc. I get from bowlingball.com or bowlerx. No tax and free shipping is good for those types of things. Can even time purchases when bowlingball.com has a buy 1 get one free deal on certain items. Took advantage of that over the weekend for some ball seesaws that I need as the bottom of my 4 ball carrier the plastic has broken a bit and is scratching the balls that are in there.

[Amyers]

I get all of my towels and tape off one of the websites and my bag. I was going to get my shoes that way but got my pro shop to come down to within $10 bucks of the online price but it saved my $50 bucks off the retail he wanted for them

[dnhoffman]

talk to your driller, bc it depends on your layout

[rv driver]

talk to your driller, bc it depends on your layout
Thanks! I'm planning to, soon as I actually select a ball (which I believe I have!). Now we can talk layout, what I want the ball to do, what he thinks I can make the ball do (speed, revs, etc.).

I hope one day to bowl like Fred Flintstone.

Or Iceman... ;-)

[dnhoffman]

I hope one day to bowl like Fred Flintstone.

Or Iceman... ;-)

same thing

[rv driver]

same thing
Not to laugh at Michael at all, but this reminds me of the old SNL sketch with Phil Hartman: Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, only this would be "Unfrozen Caveman Bowler."

<condescendingly> "Your modern ways frighten and confuse me." And then proceed to beat the socks off Aslan...

[Amyers]

Not to laugh at Michael at all, but this reminds me of the old SNL sketch with Phil Hartman: Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, only this would be "Unfrozen Caveman Bowler."

<condescendingly> "Your modern ways frighten and confuse me." And then proceed to beat the socks off Aslan...

Pay to see that

[Aslan]

And then proceed to beat the socks off Aslan...


Pay to see that

Since that has not yet been done, officially...it's hard to say that Iceman could pull it off. I mean, one of the bowling greats of our time, MWhite, fell to the Mighty Aslan TWICE as did the boy wonder ZDawg.

You're talking about Iceman bowling outside the state of Missouri...a man if Ice bowling in the 80-100 degree weather of the golden state...I don't know. Obviously Ice is truly the most gifted and physically enhanced bowler on the website...and possibly the most intimidating...but maybe he should try to beat some of the other, lesser bowlers before making the leap to the top dog.

The BEST way to beat Aslan....as I revel in talking about myself in the 3rd person...is to take him into a heavy oil environment (aka Vegas). Thats why I would actually bet ON a Rob M and/or an Iceman if it was a competition in sin city verus Cali. Heavy oil is like Kryptonite to Aslan. That may change soon...once I expend my arsenal...but as of now...heavy oil = BAD NEWS.

And I'm anxious to DO the arsenal expansion...rather than continue to talk about it the way rv driver talks about eventually buying a bowling ball...BUT...I spent my last $5 on Mega Millions tickets this morning so I'm completely broke until I get paid tomorrow/Saturday. I'd really like to take a bite out of a couple credit card bills this month before spending too much more on bowling. And my gambling abilities have been quite "underwhelming" as of late:

Net Lottery: - $1672
Net Poker: - $2900
Net Bowling: - $299
Net Slots: + $740

Net Gambling Profits: -$4131 : ( ( ( (

[vdubtx]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/45928174.jpg

[Aslan]

I'm pretty sure VDub posted a picture of some kind...but can't see it due to work security measures. : (

[rv driver]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/45928174.jpg

Indeed!

;)

[rv driver]

And I'm anxious to DO the arsenal expansion...rather than continue to talk about it the way rv driver talks about eventually buying a bowling ball
You KNOW I do that just to tick you off, right? ;)

Actually, I'm pulling the trigger on that little venture taday. (...and Aslan says, "'Bout frickin' time!")

[Amyers]

You KNOW I do that just to tick you off, right? ;)

Actually, I'm pulling the trigger on that little venture taday. (...and Aslan says, "'Bout frickin' time!")

There is no way RV has been talking about buying his ball as long as Aslan has been talking about his arsenal.

I'm pretty sure Aslan's arsenal building has been going on so long their are rubber balls in the bottom of that closet.

[rv driver]

There is no way RV has been talking about buying his ball as long as Aslan has been talking about his arsenal.

I'm pretty sure Aslan's arsenal building has been going on so long their are rubber balls in the bottom of that closet.
Couple months. I'm a careful buyer. So sue me. :p

[rv driver]

So, just to put a cap on this thread, I had a long, heart-to-heart with the pro at my center this afternoon. He told me that he'd take care of ordering the appropriate pin height and top weight for my delivery. He's da bomb.

[rv driver]

I want to say that Dave will drill a ball for $35. he factors in that price to the total when purchasing a ball. Seeing as how the Misfit and Ascent were running sort of neck-and-neck, and since Dave carries DV8, I think I'll check with him on the price of a Misfit. They're running $78 on Bowler's X. $125 at the pro shop, drilled, would put it in the same ball park, keep Dave happy, and get me a bowling ball and drilling that Dave will warranty. He also carries Columbia -- and I was interested in the Freeze, so I could check those out, too. They're all three fairly close in spec...
Sooo... I asked the pro if he could get Motiv, and he said he could. HOWEVER, his distributor didn't have the Ascent 12# in stock. They DID, however, have the Misfit Red/Orange 12# in stock. He said that the Misfit was a better ball than the Freeze (which I also had on the short list.) Additionally, the specs on the Misfit 12# were very, very close to the specs on the Wrecker 15# (which I really loved, based on the videos I saw, but the 12# wrecker had completely different specs, with only an .011 diff.).

Upshot: I ordered a 12# Misfit red/orange. $121 delivered, tax, drilled, fitted with grips. His drill fee is $30, so that puts the ball price in the same ballpark (pun not intended) as the same ball at Bowlingball.com -- if not a little cheaper. (They're $90 on that site.) He's taking into consideration my track, hand size, arm strength, etc. in figuring out the layout for me.

So, Aslan can quit stressing and get back to concentrating on his game, and the girl in the picture that Michael posted.

[rv driver]

Order placed -- ball paid for. Should see it mid week. Happy birthday to me!:cool:

Blood pressure... dropping...
heart rate... slowing...
breathing... normalizing...
fangs... retracting...

[tccstudent]

So sue me. :p

would I have a case.....could I win if so how much.......

[rv driver]

would I have a case.....could I win if so how much.......
Sorry, it's a no-win scenario. The only thing you come out with is a new Storm Kobiyashi Maru. It smells like trouble.

[tccstudent]

great now we have Canadian drug pushers advertising on the site
We need some Geritol for ICEMAN
and some sort of attraction pheromones spray for Aslan
anyone else need anything

[rv driver]

great now we have Canadian drug pushers advertising on the site
I may be new to reactive bowling, but I somehow suspect that Levaquin has little to do with pin height. Although it might have something to do with being a pain in the asp.

[tccstudent]

I may be new to reactive bowling, but I somehow suspect that Levaquin has little to do with pin height. Although it might have something to do with being a pain in the asp.

Bowl1820 will ban and delete these ads as soon as he sees them

[rv driver]

Bowl1820 will ban and delete these ads as soon as he sees them
Reported 'em already. They look gone as of now.

[tccstudent]

Reported 'em already. They look gone as of now.

Now I dont know where to buy my drugs

[rv driver]

Now I dont know where to buy my drugs
Judging from the bowling forum, maybe you can find them at your local pro shop?

[dnhoffman]

great now we have Canadian drug pushers advertising on the site
We need some Geritol for ICEMAN
and some sort of attraction pheromones spray for Aslan
anyone else need anything

I could use a new liver, I'm slowly but steadily killing mine.

[rv driver]

"Welcome to Brad's Bowling Alley and All-Night Pharmacy!"

[dnhoffman]

"...and black market organ transplants". ?

[rv driver]

"...and black market organ transplants". ?
Doc McBrunswick's Bowling Alley and Miracle Snake Oil Cures. Bowling lessons! Pro Shop! Beer! Ketamine! Medical Marijuana! Livers Transplanted While-U-Wait! Tuesday is "Dreadlocks Night!"