Mental Anguish! Frustration! Possibilities!!

[stumblintowards100]

Confusing title huh? lol

It's kind of a long story... about two years ago, I had come to terms that I sucked at bowling. Loving the game and the time at the lanes with friends (and fav bartender), I accepted that I was a 150 bowler, period. Then a client, who has since become a good friend, (bowling center operator 18 hours from me) turned me onto a Roto Grip Critical Theory.

In the area on other business, he opened his place on a holiday to meet me, drill the ball, let me roll a few frames, and give me a few pointers. We knew my PAP, but my friend measured my hand and drilled it the way "he" felt would benefit me the most.

That ball was the most comfortable ball I've ever held in my hands, and almost immediately, my avg jumped nearly 40 pins!!! When the fall league began, my progress continued, and I carried over 200 avg through 24 of 35 weeks in 3 diff leagues.

Aparently I burned the ball up, because almost as quick as I improved, I began to decline. It's been downhill ever since. 20 balls later, I'm in the low 170's, struggling for consistency. Went from 600's regularly, to praying for 500's lol.

Being an impromptu deal, the drill specs for the Critical Theory weren't kept on a reg spec sheet. My friend has drilled several of those 20 balls since, but to the spec sheet from my local "pro shop guy".

A couple of weeks ago, my friend alerts me that he's found those drill specs, and they're starkly diff from what we've been drilling for almost two years!!!!

So now, after much dismay, and yes even coming close to throwing in the towel a couple of times, I'm optimistic that maybe I'm not as bad as I've been thinking, lol.

Unfortunately, this has caused me to lose all confidence in my local guy, and I've got a few weeks before returning to my friends place, which is when we are going to "fix" my current arsenal.

In the meantime, all I can do is muddle along, and hope that the diff drill specs are the answer to my issues over the past year and a half. Through all these balls, I've had to try and adjust to what I've been told was "right". Now, I have proof, there is a better fitting pattern for me. I guess the moral of this story is... I'm an idiot? lol.

Insanity - the practice of doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results!

[Amyers]

Confusing title huh? lol
It's kind of a long story... about two years ago, I had come to terms that I sucked at bowling. Loving the game and the time at the lanes with friends (and fav bartender), I accepted that I was a 150 bowler, period. Then a client, who has since become a good friend, (bowling center operator 18 hours from me) turned me onto a Roto Grip Critical Theory. In the area on other business, he opened his place on a holiday to meet me, drill the ball, let me roll a few frames, and give me a few pointers. We knew my PAP, but my friend measured my hand and drilled it the way "he" felt would benefit me the most. That ball was the most comfortable ball I've ever held in my hands, and almost immediately, my avg jumped nearly 40 pins!!! When the fall league began, my progress continued, and I carried over 200 avg through 24 of 35 weeks in 3 diff leagues. Aparently I burned the ball up, because almost as quick as I improved, I began to decline. It's been downhill ever since. 20 balls later, I'm in the low 170's, struggling for consistency. Went from 600's regularly, to praying for 500's lol. Being an impromptu deal, the drill specs for the Critical Theory weren't kept on a reg spec sheet. My friend has drilled several of those 20 balls since, but to the spec sheet from my local "pro shop guy". A couple of weeks ago, my friend alerts me that he's found those drill specs, and they're starkly diff from what we've been drilling for almost two years!!!! So now, after much dismay, and yes even coming close to throwing in the towel a couple of times, I'm optimistic that maybe I'm not as bad as I've been thinking, lol. Unfortunately, this has caused me to lose all confidence in my local guy, and I've got a few weeks before returning to my friends place, which is when we are going to "fix" my current arsenal. In the meantime, all I can do is muddle along, and hope that the diff drill specs are the answer to my issues over the past year and a half. Through all these balls, I've had to try and adjust to what I've been told was "right". Now, I have proof, there is a better fitting pattern for me. I guess the moral of this story is... I'm an idiot? lol.
Insanity - the practice of doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results!

On the defiant soul did you try resurfacing the ball. 24 weeks over three leagues is over 70 games it just may need some work done on it. I know how frustrating it can be form balls where your grip isn't right going through that now trying to get the pitches right on my ball. Was this a layout issue or grip issue?

[bowl1820]

On the defiant soul did you try resurfacing the ball. 24 weeks over three leagues is over 70 games it just may need some work done on it. I know how frustrating it can be form balls where your grip isn't right going through that now trying to get the pitches right on my ball. Was this a layout issue or grip issue?

A defiant soul??? he said Critical Theory.

[bowl1820]

Confusing title huh? lol

Being an impromptu deal, the drill specs for the Critical Theory weren't kept on a reg spec sheet. My friend has drilled several of those 20 balls since, but to the spec sheet from my local "pro shop guy".

Not having your grip spec's sheet shouldn't have been a problem. Any good driller could have just copied the grip off the Critical Theory ball itself.



A couple of weeks ago, my friend alerts me that he's found those drill specs, and they're starkly diff from what we've been drilling for almost two years!!!!

That's great, but it's been two years. Your grip could have changed in that time. Have it double checked.



In the meantime, all I can do is muddle along, and hope that the diff drill specs are the answer to my issues over the past year and a half. Through all these balls, I've had to try and adjust to what I've been told was "right". Now, I have proof, there is a better fitting pattern for me. I guess the moral of this story is... I'm an idiot? lol.

If you have had "fit" issues for two years, yes you should have been working on fixing your grip first Before buying new balls.

"20 balls later" that's NBS (New Ball Syndrome aka: Magic Ball Syndrome "MBS") NBS is the thought that getting a new/different ball will fix all problems.



Insanity - the practice of doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results!

[Amyers]

A defiant soul??? he said Critical Theory.
You're right as usual 1820 sorry was responding while thinking of balls. Someone mentions 20 you get a little bleary eyed. That is what happens when you spend too much time looking at roto grips new releases. Heck with 20 there is probably a defiant soul in there somewhere.

[Sourtower]

My friend has drilled several of those 20 balls since, but to the spec sheet from my local "pro shop guy".

Friends don't let friends buy that many bowling balls in 2 years. I have a hard time trying to figure out which of my 3 bowling balls is right for league conditions weekly, let alone running through 20. My mind would go into bowling ball overload. Either that or Roto Grip has got you going mad. I would take some of the money that you plan on spending on a new ball and find yourself a bowling coach who can sit down with you and videotape you bowling. It's a lot cheaper than drilling out 20 bowling balls, and I'm sure the results of being coached will help you up your game.

[RobLV1]

Unfortunately many league bowlers think that you change bowling balls to get to the pocket. That's not the case. If you can adjust at all, you can get most any ball to the pocket. You change balls not to get to the pocket, but to strike when you are there. I'm afraid it's become a matter of, "I don't want to move, so I'm going to stand on the big dot and hit the second arrow, and find a ball that will get to the pocket when I do that".

[fortheloveofbowling]

Stumblintowards, When you say drill specs do you mean your actual span and pitches or a certain drilling layout like pin under fingers or above fingers etc. Just wondering because if your grip was that different i think you would have noticed the feel. Anyway, glad you feel better about your game and possibly getting back on the right track. Good luck to you.

[Amyers]

Friends don't let friends buy that many bowling balls in 2 years. I have a hard time trying to figure out which of my 3 bowling balls is right for league conditions weekly, let alone running through 20. My mind would go into bowling ball overload. Either that or Roto Grip has got you going mad. I would take some of the money that you plan on spending on a new ball and find yourself a bowling coach who can sit down with you and videotape you bowling. It's a lot cheaper than drilling out 20 bowling balls, and I'm sure the results of being coached will help you up your game.

I have to say I believe I would find a new pro shop anybody who let you buy this many balls hoping this one was the one that would fix your game is not your friend. That's almost a ball per month.

[stumblintowards100]

Not having your grip spec's sheet shouldn't have been a problem. Any good driller could have just copied the grip off the Critical Theory ball itself.

Never gave it a second thought that it was radically diff, and got rid of the ball.



That's great, but it's been two years. Your grip could have changed in that time. Have it double checked.

Yep, grip has changed, and we're starting over


If you have had "fit" issues for two years, yes you should have been working on fixing your grip first Before buying new balls.

"20 balls later" that's NBS (New Ball Syndrome aka: Magic Ball Syndrome "MBS") NBS is the thought that getting a new/different ball will fix all problems.


Never had "fit" issues. Every ball I've had "felt" fine. Not being "pro shop savvy", had no reason to go measuring behind the "pro", and had nothing to compare to anyways.

To answer some other remarks, this isn't a RotoGrip issue, I just seem to have better luck with their product. Of the 20 balls, there have been a good mix between Roto, Storm, Brunswick, DV8, Radical, even threw in a Hammer and an Ebonite lol. As for "friends don't let friends buy that many balls", trust me, my buddy thinks I'm insane, and less than half of those balls came from his shop. The rest came from the local shop, and only once was I "enticed" by the "pro" to buy, so it's not a matter of being taken advantage of.
Amyers, you're right about RG's new releases, lol. I watched their announcements live yesterday, and yes, I'll have the Hysteria and Sinister when they are available. Every boy has his toys, mine just happens to be bowling balls, lol.

[circlecity]

I watched their announcements live yesterday, and yes, I'll have the Hysteria and Sinister when they are available. Every boy has his toys, mine just happens to be bowling balls, lol.

With bowling in a tailspin right now we need people like you to keep the companies in business. ;)

[bowl1820]

Never had "fit" issues. Every ball I've had "felt" fine. Not being "pro shop savvy", had no reason to go measuring behind the "pro", and had nothing to compare to anyways.

"We knew my PAP, but my friend measured my hand and drilled it the way "he" felt would benefit me the most."

"That ball was the most comfortable ball I've ever held in my hands,"

"Being an impromptu deal, the drill specs for the Critical Theory weren't kept on a reg spec sheet."

All these statements lead us to believe you are talking about your Grip.

So If you don't have fit issue's the only other thing would be you just didn't know the layout you used on the Critical Theory.

Not having the layout wrote down shouldn't have been a problem either. Any good driller could have found your PAP and got the layout off the Critical Theory ball itself back then.


"struggling for consistency."

I'd say that's the main problem, you need to work on your physical game more.


I'll have the Hysteria and Sinister when they are available. Every boy has his toys, mine just happens to be bowling balls, lol.

Yep, New Ball Syndrome. Well just remember there's no Magic Ball and no Magic layout. I think Robs post nailed it.

[stumblintowards100]

One more time... maybe it is hard understand how an inexperienced bowler can't "feel" the subtle differences in the way a ball grips. And maybe it's hard to understand how gained experience, and yes expense, led to finally questioning. And again, I KNOW IT WOULD BE SIMPLE FOR A GOOD DRILLER TO MEASURE AN EXISTING LAYOUT. Read the posts, I got rid of the ball with no idea it was so different that I should've measured it!. Excuse me for venting a lil fellows. Little did I know everyone in here is a pro that's been slinging the same rock for forty years. I'll just crawl back into my hole and leave you guys to yourselves and this forum.

[stumblintowards100]

One last note...


With bowling in a tailspin right now we need people like you to keep the companies in business. ;)

Just trying to do my part to save the sport my friend, lol

[Amyers]

One more time... maybe it is hard understand how an inexperienced bowler can't "feel" the subtle differences in the way a ball grips. And maybe it's hard to understand how gained experience, and yes expense, led to finally questioning. And again, I KNOW IT WOULD BE SIMPLE FOR A GOOD DRILLER TO MEASURE AN EXISTING LAYOUT. Read the posts, I got rid of the ball with no idea it was so different that I should've measured it!. Excuse me for venting a lil fellows. Little did I know everyone in here is a pro that's been slinging the same rock for forty years. I'll just crawl back into my hole and leave you guys to yourselves and this forum.

Stumblin100 we don't want you to leave we all have issues the best of us have them we try to help with issues and have a little fun too

We all want to try and help but you need to listen with an open mind. The point everyone is trying to make here are a few things.

1. We waned to know did you feel it is a layout or grip issue. Most likely a layout may cut a few pins off but it's not going to make you inconsistent across that many balls

2. That's just a lot of balls and we all feel you would have been better served to try and find the correct layout or grip on one ball then add more

3. I feel and I believe most others here feel that there are most likely physical issues with your game that are the more likely culprit to your problems than balls, layouts, or grips.

Take some of the advice or don't it's okay no one wants you to leave. Another idea you might post a video showing you bowling f you would like some advice on the physical side but if you do be prepared for what people think doesn't mean you have to listen just consider it

[bowl1820]

One more time... maybe it is hard understand how an inexperienced bowler can't "feel" the subtle differences in the way a ball grips. And maybe it's hard to understand how gained experience, and yes expense, led to finally questioning.

It's not about being a inexperienced bowler feeling subtle differences.

You said you got a ball that had the best feel you ever had, but they couldn't find the paper with the grip spec's on it.
So the comment was made that they could have copied the grip off the ball, that's all.

Then you said that you didn't have any grip issues, so that left layout. So the comment was made that they could have copied the layout off the ball, that's all.


And again, I KNOW IT WOULD BE SIMPLE FOR A GOOD DRILLER TO MEASURE AN EXISTING LAYOUT. Read the posts, I got rid of the ball with no idea it was so different that I should've measured it!.

Okay, went back and read the posts. you didn't say you had got rid of the critical theory before getting the next ball back then so they couldn't have copied it.


Excuse me for venting a lil fellows. Little did I know everyone in here is a pro that's been slinging the same rock for forty years. I'll just crawl back into my hole and leave you guys to yourselves and this forum.

No reason for you to get bent out of shape. Nobody is saying anything is your fault or that you should leave.

Amyers said it that it sounds more like physical issues with your game that are the more likely culprit to your inconsistency than balls, layouts, or grips."

And while not saying it won't help, getting your grip from two years might not help either if it's physical issues with your game.

Also like like I said your grip from two years ago, might not be the same as it would be today so you should have it double check to be sure.

[stumblintowards100]

Stumblin100 we don't want you to leave we all have issues the best of us have them we try to help with issues and have a little fun too

We all want to try and help but you need to listen with an open mind. The point everyone is trying to make here are a few things.

1. We waned to know did you feel it is a layout or grip issue. Most likely a layout may cut a few pins off but it's not going to make you inconsistent across that many balls

2. That's just a lot of balls and we all feel you would have been better served to try and find the correct layout or grip on one ball then add more

3. I feel and I believe most others here feel that there are most likely physical issues with your game that are the more likely culprit to your problems than balls, layouts, or grips.

Take some of the advice or don't it's okay no one wants you to leave. Another idea you might post a video showing you bowling f you would like some advice on the physical side but if you do be prepared for what people think doesn't mean you have to listen just consider it



It's not about being a inexperienced bowler feeling subtle differences.

You said you got a ball that had the best feel you ever had, but they couldn't find the paper with the grip spec's on it.
So the comment was made that they could have copied the grip off the ball, that's all.

Then you said that you didn't have any grip issues, so that left layout. So the comment was made that they could have copied the layout off the ball, that's all.



Okay, went back and read the posts. you didn't say you had got rid of the critical theory before getting the next ball back then so they couldn't have copied it.



No reason for you to get bent out of shape. Nobody is saying anything is your fault or that you should leave.

Amyers said it that it sounds more like physical issues with your game that are the more likely culprit to your inconsistency than balls, layouts, or grips."

And while not saying it won't help, getting your grip from two years might not help either if it's physical issues with your game.

Also like like I said your grip from two years ago, might not be the same as it would be today so you should have it double check to be sure.


Ok, maybe my panties got in a lil wad over this. My bad, lol. Maybe some of my terminology wasn't spot on, and led to confusion. Understand that everything is in retrospect now, and when I said "comfortable", maybe I should've said effective. That Critical Theory was the most forgiving, and yes, it felt good for post to release. Measuring it for future reference was never a thought.

When the plunge began, everyone's attention was on my physical game, not equipment. So yes, my physical game is now in shambles, and needs a lot of help. It seems like every time I work on one "bad habit", I create two others.

Our local "pro" isn't about to admit that everything in his layout/grip ideas for my game weren't correct, or maybe isn't now. So yes, you guys are ultimately correct in the assessment that the root of the problem is now grip/layout related, as my whole game has changed without a good set of "objective eyes" on it. (Before blaming anything on my friend, we've only rolled together once since that Critical Theory, and there was way too much alcohol involved to make an assessment of anyone's game.

A satellite coach can only advise on what the pupil is able to convey, and I try not to burden him too much.). All this said, knowing what I know now, everything is futile until we are able to make changes to the current arsenal. That will happen when I visit my friends place in three weeks. There will be a lot of plugging and redrilling going on for sure.

Oh yeah, hell I know it's my fault, lol. I'm like the class clown, and the butt of the joke. I can take that. I've admitted all along that it's not the ball, it's the idiot chunking it. Well now, the idiot has learned a valuable lesson, and now has a lil more experience, so we'll have to find another excuse for sucking on the lanes if the changes don't make a drastic difference, lol.

[Amyers]

Take the balls one or two at a time until you get it right don't change the arsenal all at once.

I would suggest starting with whatever you use as your middle of the road you may have to make numerous changes especially if you are adjusting your pitches and grip.

I'm currently on change #4 on my thumb hole at the moment and it's better but I'm not sure it still right

[stumblintowards100]

Take the balls one or two at a time until you get it right don't change the arsenal all at once.

I would suggest starting with whatever you use as your middle of the road you may have to make numerous changes especially if you are adjusting your pitches and grip.

I'm currently on change #4 on my thumb hole at the moment and it's better but I'm not sure it still right


Lol, yeah that's the plan. I currently have six balls, three that I consider the "arsenal", and three collecting dust. I'm gonna make the changes that we are most sure will make a difference on my "go to" ball (Totally Defiant), then do the experimenting on one of the others, probably the Ebonite Pivot which I really like, but just don't use much.

[bowl1820]

A satellite coach can only advise on what the pupil is able to convey, and I try not to burden him too much.). All this said, knowing what I know now, everything is futile until we are able to make changes to the current arsenal. That will happen when I visit my friends place in three weeks. There will be a lot of plugging and redrilling going on for sure.


Just some suggestions:

Assuming the sheet that was found was your grip spec's (Span's, Pitches etc.) and which might Possibly include the layout used on the Critical Theory

1- Double check the fit.
2- I would have your PAP location checked also. If you have a couple of balls, bring them and throw a few frames. Get a good measurement.
(If possible check your speed and rev's and tilt etc while your at it. That will help in choosing a layout.)

3- just do one ball at first, so you can try it out. That way you can be sure of the grips fit, before for doing the others.

Depending on which & how many balls you have and want to change. I would only do a couple of "strike" balls and your spare ball if you have one.

Make sure you discuss with the driller what your looking for the ball to do or expect to do after drilling. (Think about what your ball has been doing and what you'd like to see it do)

Might be a good time to have the balls surface freshened up too.

[stumblintowards100]

Just some suggestions:

Assuming the sheet that was found was your grip spec's (Span's, Pitches etc.) and which might Possibly include the layout used on the Critical Theory

1- Double check the fit.
2- I would have your PAP location checked also. If you have a couple of balls, bring them and throw a few frames. Get a good measurement.
(If possible check your speed and rev's and tilt etc while your at it. That will help in choosing a layout.)

That's the main plan

3- just do one ball at first, so you can try it out. That way you can be sure of the grips fit, before for doing the others.

Depending on which & how many balls you have and want to change. I would only do a couple of "strike" balls and your spare ball if you have one.

Make sure you discuss with the driller what your looking for the ball to do or expect to do after drilling. (Think about what your ball has been doing and what you'd like to see it do)

LOL, the ball has been "missing" a lot, I want it to "hit" a lot! lol (couldn't resist lol)

Might be a good time to have the balls surface freshened up too.

That's one thing I do. I have a "hot box" w/ rollers and a spinner. Plus, the local guy helps me keep them as "fresh" as possible.

Thanks for your suggestions

[rv driver]

It almost sounds like the grip was right, the layout was good, if you describe the ball as comfortable and your average jumped that much. Sounds like the ball needs resurfacing or something. But I'm definitely not the expert on equipment here.