Sport Shot Help

[tmacfanmike]

I just started a sport shot league a few weeks ago and noticed my game has dropped majorly on short patterns. I used to average a 210 on short patterns and now I am lucky if I average 150. I am trying to play the same line and I hit Brooklyn from the 1-5 board. I will have a diagram below of how I play each shot, in theory based on what I see and math for my closest line. Can you give me any tips for playing a short pattern? Thanks in advance. League is Thursday so I will look at what you guys have said and try them out. Here are the links to the photos.
House Shot (http://bit.ly/HouseShot)
Sport Shot (http://bit.ly/MikeSportShot)

[Shaneshu87]

why don't you try to project the ball further down the lane, or possibly open up your hand and dont grab so much

[tmacfanmike]

I have my hand flat and I even sped up my ball speed by 2-3 mph.

[Shaneshu87]

hmm are you a higher rev bowler? i'm a medium rev bowler and i love short patterns lol but even i have to flatten out sometime i even pull my ring finger completely out of the ball

[bowl1820]

About the short pattern your playing too deep and your getting the ball out in the dry way too early.(Kind of deep for the house shot IMO too! but whatever works for you)

You need to move right. short patterns have a lot of dry on the backend and you don't really want to swing the ball.

When you play the short pattern from the deep inside line because the ball hooks a lot, the ball will leave the oil pattern in a area (I think around the 8th-12th board) which doesn't leave much room for the ball to hold back into the pocket.

By moving right and playing more the outside part of the lane, the ball will have more room to make its move towards the pocket.

You should also look at ball choice something smooth reacting and give it some surface.

[tmacfanmike]

My rev rate is 450-500 and my speed is around 18-19 on this shot and 17 on THS

[Mike White]

My rev rate is 450-500 and my speed is around 18-19 on this shot and 17 on THS

Try a urethane ball.

First get to the pocket, then fine tune for carry.

Seems your current ball can't find a path to the pocket.

It can't get much worse than that.

[tmacfanmike]

Try a urethane ball.

First get to the pocket, then fine tune for carry.

Seems your current ball can't find a path to the pocket.

It can't get much worse than that.

I don't have a urethane ball... It got ruined in a car crash around 6 months ago.

[Mike White]

I don't have a urethane ball... It got ruined in a car crash around 6 months ago.

Well rumor has it, they still sell them in pro shops.

BTW, don't let your bowling balls borrow your car, they can't see over the steering wheel.

[tmacfanmike]

Well rumor has it, they still sell them in pro shops.

BTW, don't let your bowling balls borrow your car, they can't see over the steering wheel.

Yeahhh but that requires extra money :P Something I don't have at the moment. And I learned that the hard way

[bowl1820]

I don't have a urethane ball... It got ruined in a car crash around 6 months ago.

What ball/balls have you been using on the sport shot so far? List the equipment you do have.

[tmacfanmike]

What ball/balls have you been using on the sport shot so far? List the equipment you do have.

Well I have:
Track 400A SE
Ebonite Cyclone
Brunswick Strike King
Hammer Arson
Brunswick T-Zone

[Aslan]

I have my hand flat and I even sped up my ball speed by 2-3 mph.

No ya don't. A flat hand ...with those balls...they'd go straight into the right gutter.

It's actually a very easy answer based on how bowling works:

The amount and timing of a ball hooking is based on (to over-simplify it and take out all the boring math and ball spec stuff that gives Mudpuppy a headache):

- length of pattern and degree of dryness/oil
- time ball is in contact with lane
- speed of ball (related to above)
- revolutions of ball

So...since between shots, you aren't allowed to spray oil on the lanes where you'd like it...that leaves you with speed, loft, and revs. If you won't reduce revs...you have to speed the ball up or loft it...both of which minimize the ability of the revs to affect it.

Going by those pictures you drew (P.S. How did you do that? I want to do that.)...your ball has an extremely high rev rate. You have 4 of the weaker, low-end performance balls in your arsenal (an arsenal that makes no sense to me)....and you are getting a reaction more extreme than a high-level amateur throwing pro-performance equipment. It looks like the reaction you'd see with 2-handed or thumbless styles.

So, long story long, if speeding up doesn't work...do like the pros do and loft the gutters. Thats how Belmo does it. Another novel option is don't rev it up so much. But what fun would that be? :rolleyes:

[tmacfanmike]

No ya don't. A flat hand ...with those balls...they'd go straight into the right gutter.

It's actually a very easy answer based on how bowling works:

The amount and timing of a ball hooking is based on (to over-simplify it and take out all the boring math and ball spec stuff that gives Mudpuppy a headache):

- length of pattern and degree of dryness/oil
- time ball is in contact with lane
- speed of ball (related to above)
- revolutions of ball

So...since between shots, you aren't allowed to spray oil on the lanes where you'd like it...that leaves you with speed, loft, and revs. If you won't reduce revs...you have to speed the ball up or loft it...both of which minimize the ability of the revs to affect it.

Going by those pictures you drew (P.S. How did you do that? I want to do that.)...your ball has an extremely high rev rate. You have 4 of the weaker, low-end performance balls in your arsenal (an arsenal that makes no sense to me)....and you are getting a reaction more extreme than a high-level amateur throwing pro-performance equipment. It looks like the reaction you'd see with 2-handed or thumbless styles.

So, long story long, if speeding up doesn't work...do like the pros do and loft the gutters. Thats how Belmo does it. Another novel option is don't rev it up so much. But what fun would that be? :rolleyes:

The pattern I believe is a 36 foot Kegel pattern. The ball is on the lane for ~55 ft. Speed is around 17-19. Revs are around ~450 with cupped wrist, with my wrist not cupped I would presume it is around 350-400 (not sure).

I did the pictures by Googling "scale bowling lane" then getting the pic. Going into a photo editor and drawing my line based off of release point, mark, and breakpoint then I drew the curve with a freehand tool.

Here is how my cyclone did on the Badger 52 ft oil pattern :P Cyclone on Badger (http://bit.ly/1kW6JTr) I bowl one handed and use my thumb. Also my axis rotation is around 60-65.

Well any tips on lofting then? I can only loft around 5-7 ft :/ I can also post a video of the Cyclone on a house shot if you want. Don't mind the regular shoes xD It was just a shot for fun. :P

[RobLV1]

Watch the tape of the PBA Summer Swing Wolf Championship; 32' pattern. Sean Rash was the only bowler using a reactive bowling ball, and an aggressive one at that. Everyone else was using urethane or, in Chris Barnes case, that Epoxy monstrosity. Sean Rash beat everyone and bowled a perfect game in the process. Personally I think that balling down that far is rarely called for. In the case of a short pattern, the most common error is to try to move left. The move is actually to the right. Even top bowlers occasionally throw gutter balls on short patterns for the simple reason that if the ball is not hanging over the gutter at about forty feet, it's probably going through the nose.

[Shaneshu87]

your got a ball to turn on Badger? *drops to knees* "we're not worthy... we're not worthy!" lol nice work i have to throw the ball about 3 mph to get a 5 board turn out of it lol it's sad

[Amyers]

I agree with Rob and bowl1820 the move is to the right and fire it down outside the first arrow and pray with you revs. If that doesn't work you're going to be buying a urathane or pitching that tzone. At least you'll kill me on the longer patterns.

[Aslan]

I don't see how he can move right unless it's a blocked pattern. Or a pattern where they put more oil outside than inside. Isn't going to be too dry outside...causing the ball to hook earlier?

I'm not familiar with the 36'Kegal. But from what I've seen of Kegal patterns, they are just modified house patterns; they aren't blocked (like the Wolf). With the Wolf...you only have 1 board of dry on the outside....I thought the Kegal patterns start losing oil volume after the first 15ft?? The only short Kegal pattern I've seen is the Broadway which I think is 37ft...but typical in ratio/shape. The only 36ft Kegal patterns are those weird Teen Masters patterns...and I think those are just weird "skill challenges" or something like that.

But I digress....my point is...at that rev rate and pattern length...if the pattern isn't blocked like the Wolf...I don't think the outside shot will stay outside long enough. And if he's talking about that Teen Masters pattern...there's no way not to use a urethane or plastic ball...and even then he might go left.

What I do think...is he should bowl against me before he figures it out. Cuz I'd kick BUTT on a short, dry pattern.

[tmacfanmike]

I forgot the name of the pattern but I believe it is the Boardwalk.

[bowl1820]

You move right because your wanting the ball to lose energy quicker by playing more outside and up the lane.

Playing deep the ball will retain more energy and with all the extra dry in the backend it's going to over react and takeoff.

Take a look at this Tean USA sheet:
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/sportbowling/pdfs/teamusa/TEAM%20USA%20SHORT%20PATTERN%20FLIER%20WEB.pdf

It shows 4 short patterns 33-34-35-36 feet with advice on how to play them. All are played towards the outside.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: It seems that you are getting a little confused again between a sport shot and a house shot. House shots are walled. Sport shots, by definition are not. While a sport shot may be short in length, the short patterns normally have the largest volumes of oil for the length that it goes. The idea is to use that volume of oil on the outside to try and propel the ball far enough down the lane to keep it from overhooking. The idea is different on a sport shot than it is on a house shot. If, for instance, you were to find a shot with more oil on the outside than on the inside as you referred to in your post, you wouldn't move out, you would move in to avoid the oil on the outside. With your limited experience in your short bowling career, I'd suggest you be very careful about challenging other bowlers to matches on any kind of pattern... just sayin'.

[Amyers]

I don't see how he can move right unless it's a blocked pattern. Or a pattern where they put more oil outside than inside. Isn't going to be too dry outside...causing the ball to hook earlier?

I'm not familiar with the 36'Kegal. But from what I've seen of Kegal patterns, they are just modified house patterns; they aren't blocked (like the Wolf). With the Wolf...you only have 1 board of dry on the outside....I thought the Kegal patterns start losing oil volume after the first 15ft?? The only short Kegal pattern I've seen is the Broadway which I think is 37ft...but typical in ratio/shape. The only 36ft Kegal patterns are those weird Teen Masters patterns...and I think those are just weird "skill challenges" or something like that.

But I digress....my point is...at that rev rate and pattern length...if the pattern isn't blocked like the Wolf...I don't think the outside shot will stay outside long enough. And if he's talking about that Teen Masters pattern...there's no way not to use a urethane or plastic ball...and even then he might go left.

What I do think...is he should bowl against me before he figures it out. Cuz I'd kick BUTT on a short, dry pattern.

In general he needs to do what we try to avoid he wants to burn the ball up a little to reduce his hook. He has the speed and revs to spare we don't.

[bowl1820]

Aslan: It seems that you are getting a little confused again between a sport shot and a house shot. House shots are walled. Sport shots, by definition are not. While a sport shot may be short in length, the short patterns normally have the largest volumes of oil for the length that it goes. The idea is to use that volume of oil on the outside to try and propel the ball far enough down the lane to keep it from overhooking.


This should help illustrate

this is a comparison of a houseshot vs the Boardwalk pattern the OP mentioned

http://s5.postimg.org/uz3z0sptz/houseshotvs_BOARDWALK.jpg

Note how much more oil there is outside on boardwalk compared to the ths


Here's a good BTM article to read also:

Click for Staying lined up, Part 3 Navigating short oil (http://digitaleditions.bowlingthismonth.com/print.php?pages=48,%2049,%2050,%2051,%2052&issue_id=60551&ref=1)

[tmacfanmike]

In general he needs to do what we try to avoid he wants to burn the ball up a little to reduce his hook. He has the speed and revs to spare we don't.

How would I go about burning the ball up? Since you guys are saying to play the outside of the lane, I tried that last week at league and the ball would either hit the 3-6 or hit the 7. Please explain as to how I would play the outside...

[Stormed1]

What about also adding some surface to an existing ball to cause it to loose some energy sooner and cut down the overreaction

[Mike White]

What about also adding some surface to an existing ball to cause it to loose some energy sooner and cut down the overreaction

With the amount of revs he throws, extra friction from surface doesn't reduce the ball's energy level much.

If he can't purchase a urethane ball, the next best thing is to use the T-Zone and struggle with carry, rather than struggle with massive over hook.

[Aslan]

Less Revs = problem solved

[Aslan]

With your limited experience in your short bowling career, I'd suggest you be very careful about challenging other bowlers to matches on any kind of pattern... just sayin'.

I've beat bowlers with more. Just sayin.

[Shaneshu87]

ouch Rob that was kind of a D*ck move towards Aslan

[Aslan]

ouch Rob that was kind of a D*ck move towards Aslan

Rob is a "tough love" kinda guy. So is MWhite. Which unfortunately means putting them both in a chat room together would be like 2 cats on speed in a burlap sack.

Me, on the other hand...I tend to have a very thick skin and can dish out as good as I get. So, no worries.

[RobLV1]

I'm sure that Aslan did not take offense to my statement. As his sometimes coach, we have actually met and have a little bit more of an understanding of our unique personalities as they relate to real life, and not just as on-line personas.

As far as many of the other entries in this thread, there seems to be an overall confusion about the differences between a sport shot and a house shot (league shot). A house shot is dry on the outside by definition. When you set the ball down outside of the oil line (usually 10 board), it immediately encounters friction and stops skidding sooner, and begins to hook. Once the ball begins to hook, it begins the process that ends with it losing power. It's kind of like jumping off of a bridge; once you jump, there's no going back. You're not dead until you hit bottom, but hitting the bottom is inevitable once you jump. A sport shot that is short in length like the Wolf or the Cheetah, is not dry on the outside and has as much, if not more oil than is on the center part of the lane on a house shot. The idea of playing the outside part of the lane on a short sport shot is to use the volume of oil to get the ball as far outside as possible because it is going to hook early, and early hook = lots of hook.

[rv driver]

Rob is a "tough love" kinda guy. So is MWhite. Which unfortunately means putting them both in a chat room together would be like 2 cats on speed in a burlap sack.

Me, on the other hand...I tend to have a very thick skin and can dish out as good as I get. So, no worries.
I'd pay real money to see that...

[Mike White]

I'd pay real money to see that...

I took over a spot in a Summer Vegas league for someone who is injured.

That event just might be possible in the near future.

[rv driver]

I took over a spot in a Summer Vegas league for someone who is injured.

That event just might be possible in the near future.
LOL -- I meant the thing about two cats on speed in a bag! But a showdown between you two would be worth money too. Too bad I live so far away!

[tmacfanmike]

Less Revs = problem solved

That's my problem... I can increase but have a really hard time decreasing... And league is today and I said the wrong pattern. It is Kegel Los Angeles

[Aslan]

I took over a spot in a Summer Vegas league for someone who is injured.

That event just might be possible in the near future.

Aslan---tries to locate a burlap sack...

[zdawg]

I'm sure that Aslan did not take offense to my statement. As his sometimes coach, we have actually met and have a little bit more of an understanding of our unique personalities as they relate to real life, and not just as on-line personas.

As far as many of the other entries in this thread, there seems to be an overall confusion about the differences between a sport shot and a house shot (league shot). A house shot is dry on the outside by definition. When you set the ball down outside of the oil line (usually 10 board), it immediately encounters friction and stops skidding sooner, and begins to hook. Once the ball begins to hook, it begins the process that ends with it losing power. It's kind of like jumping off of a bridge; once you jump, there's no going back. You're not dead until you hit bottom, but hitting the bottom is inevitable once you jump. A sport shot that is short in length like the Wolf or the Cheetah, is not dry on the outside and has as much, if not more oil than is on the center part of the lane on a house shot. The idea of playing the outside part of the lane on a short sport shot is to use the volume of oil to get the ball as far outside as possible because it is going to hook early, and early hook = lots of hook.

AMEN Rob, seriously the amount of people that bowl in my usual THS league that don't know what a lane that has no dry on the edges feels like is ridiculous. For fun I had my local house oil up the badger pattern, my teammate who has been bowling on league since he was in high school, only THS shots, got PISSED when he started throwing shots. He was like "dude, you had them **** up the lanes somehow" and I was all like, no "I had them oil it in a way the pros have to shoot on"....WELL, he was humbled

EDIT: This was on a fun open bowling night, not league

[rv driver]

Aslan---tries to locate a burlap sack...
Oh, goody! <rubs hands, maniacal gleam comes into eyes>

[rv driver]

That's my problem... I can increase but have a really hard time decreasing... And league is today and I said the wrong pattern. It is Kegel Los Angeles Hmm... doesn't unloading the wrist and keeping behind/under the ball create more roll/less rev?

[bowl1820]

That's my problem... I can increase but have a really hard time decreasing... And league is today and I said the wrong pattern. It is Kegel Los Angeles

Los Angles is a foot longer than the other pattern and a higher oil volume.

Here's the pattern:
click for WTBA-Los-Angeles.pdf (http://pzksbs.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/WTBA-Los-Angeles.pdf)

Mo on Los Angles:
"I use this pattern in some of my demos included in my seminars. It is the easiest of the WTBA short patterns. I see a lot of the posts talk about how hard this pattern is. If that's the case, the other WTBA short patterns will be impossible. Sydney is the toughest of the short WTBA patterns. The complicating issues on all the short patterns are lane topography and the condition of the lane machine, especially the cleaning section."

[Joker]

Hmm... doesn't unloading the wrist and keeping behind/under the ball create more roll/less rev?

yup, Its going to create more end over end roll and less revs

[rv driver]

yup, Its going to create more end over end roll and less revs
Then that little adjustment should fix his problem, yes?