corner pin spares set up

[Beagle]

best way for right hander to cover the 7 and 10 pins? walk toward target?

[manke]

I always throw cross lanes over the middle arrow!!

[Shaneshu87]

shooting at the 10 pin i use a plastic spare ball, step 5boards left and throw at my same mark, as long as i hit that mark i cover. for the seven pin i keep my feet in the same spot as my strike ball, and move my mark to adjust, this may be 10-15 boards for some. if you do not have plastic spare ball, i pull ring finger out of ball, step 5 boards left and suitcase the ball to remove as much axis rotation as possible. for 7 pin i move and crank my ball as hard as i can while throwing a 6 mph ball and use the up the 2nd arrow line. given lane surface is a ths.

[bowl1820]

best way for right hander to cover the 7 and 10 pins? walk toward target?

You go cross lane with a straight ball, it gives you the highest margin of error and takes the lane conditions out of it.

[mc_runner]

Cross alley at the 10 pin for sure. I use an old, worn out, light reactive and flatten my shot out a little, it behaves the same as a plastic. On a THS I usually just hook my strike ball across the lane to get the 7. I start my ball a little lower to shave off 1 mph or so and throw it up the 5 board with my normal amount of revs. Hooks right in :P

for non THS/sport though you'll want to throw plastic or a minimal hooking ball straight at the pin. I hook at the 7 on THS simply because I can hit it 95% of the time. In practice games I work on throwing it straight to get better at that option.

edit: what bowl1820 said!

[classygranny]

best way for right hander to cover the 7 and 10 pins? walk toward target?

I walk straight (normal footwork) with my shoulder more open, for the 10-pin, across lane @ 18-20 board, with a plastic ball. Find what works best for you, but walking TOWARD your target could get you in trouble. IMHO

The 7-pin on THS can be done with strike ball, moving feet right and shooting same target, or across lane with plastic ball, or more direct say from 20 across 25 or so. Practice a few ways to determine what works for your footwork, style and comfort level.

From experience...I would suggest, practice all you've read about, PICK ONE WAY and stick to it for awhile, before you start "experimenting" too much.

[RobLV1]

If you really want to get good at picking up your corner pin spares, learn to use a plastic ball, thrown straight end-over-end for ALL of your single pin spares. Yes I know that it is initially easier and more comfortable to cover the four pin or seven pin (for a right handed bowler) by using your strike ball and hooking at them, but when you do that, the ten pin and six pin become the out of the ordinary spares to cover. Once you get comfortable going straight with plastic at all of your single pin spares, then the ten pin becomes just another spare and no big deal.

As far as angles go, the main thing to avoid is the track area on the right side of the lane for the simple reason that so many players play there that it is usually a high friction area, that will even affect a plastic ball if it is not thrown perfectly end over end. For this reason, I recommend standing far left and going over the fourth arrow to target the ten pin, but standing more in the center part of the lane to cover the four pin and seven pin. Try to walk straight, keeping in mind that a little drift toward your target won't kill you, particularly on left side spares, as long as it is consistent. Walking straight is much more important on right side spares as it can get you too close to the track area and threaten your accuracy.

[MICHAEL]

If you really want to get good at picking up your corner pin spares, learn to use a plastic ball, thrown straight end-over-end for ALL of your single pin spares. Yes I know that it is initially easier and more comfortable to cover the four pin or seven pin (for a right handed bowler) by using your strike ball and hooking at them, but when you do that, the ten pin and six pin become the out of the ordinary spares to cover. Once you get comfortable going straight with plastic at all of your single pin spares, then the ten pin becomes just another spare and no big deal.

As far as angles go, the main thing to avoid is the track area on the right side of the lane for the simple reason that so many players play there that it is usually a high friction area, that will even affect a plastic ball if it is not thrown perfectly end over end. For this reason, I recommend standing far left and going over the fourth arrow to target the ten pin, but standing more in the center part of the lane to cover the four pin and seven pin. Try to walk straight, keeping in mind that a little drift toward your target won't kill you, particularly on left side spares, as long as it is consistent. Walking straight is much more important on right side spares as it can get you too close to the track area and threaten your accuracy.

so to throw a end over end ball, you need to, ( as Iceman does, release the ball with the palm UP, right!?) I don't know any other way! I have been doing this and my pick up on the 10 pin has improved a bunch!!

[RobLV1]

What works for me is to throw a back-up ball. It doesn't actually back up, but it does thump over the thumb hole. When I hear the thump, I know I've thrown it perfectly.

[Amyers]

What works for me is to throw a back-up ball. It doesn't actually back up, but it does thump over the thumb hole. When I hear the thump, I know I've thrown it perfectly.

It depends on lane conditions I still haven't got my spare ball yet. I know I need too!. If conditions are fresh I throw whole roller at them just straight up the back of the ball. If conditions are dry or worn in I will throw the backup ball I can make mine move a little right and then straighten out.

My palm isn't up with either but if it's working for you Ice don't change it.

[Beagle]

I use my ring and pinky fingers in the ball. kills it, very little roll

[Aslan]

For left side spares, I use the 4-8-12 lateral adjustment and thus will move 12-boards right of my spot for my strike shot. I will then throw my strike ball over the same spot and the ball will hook into the 7-pin. Since this is simply a lateral adjustment with the same ball and I'm using the hook…I walk straight to the line and don't open mys shoulders to the 7-pin. Unfortunately, I'm only 60% (83/137) at that pin as of right now…but that has improved a great deal recently.

For right side leaves I throw my spare ball (polished entry level reactive) and use the 4-8-12 system from center. So I will move my left foot to the 32-board (20/center + 12) and the target is generally the 15-19 board at the arrows. Since this is a straight shot, I will angle my approach and open my shoulders to the target. I am 58% at this pin (172/293) presently and it still gives me a great deal of trouble.

This shot still gives me a great deal of problems and those problems can vary. Generally, a missed shot is "usually" because I don't open my shoulders or I open them too much. But, I can also miss this shot because the reactive resin ball will grab slightly and if the lanes are drier…I'll miss by 1-3 inches left. However, that is generally cancelled out by the fact that on drier lanes, if I miss right, the ball will often times grab and straighten out into the 10-pin. This shot is also a problem if the lanes a VERY dry…or just not well maintained…because the ball, even at my low rev rate, will "bounce" off a very dry outside area. If that happens, I try to increase speed to overcome it…or I can flatten out my wrist…but I hate to do either of those since it messes with my normal delivery/approach/timing.

Realize, part of why I haven't switched to a plastic ball (yet) is I simply don't have a rev rate where I generally have a problem or get into trouble. The USBC generally teaches throwing a plastic ball. And I would agree with that for any new player or player that generates even 250rpms.

[RobLV1]

At the risk of being accused of being harsh, I don't care if your rev rate is 10. Use a plastic spare ball and learn to throw it end over end at EVERY SINGLE PIN SPARE. You are missing 40% of your seven pins, and 42% of your ten pins! Don't eat for a week. Don't buy gas for your care and walk to work. Turn off your telephone and your television. Whatever you need to do to get a plastic spare ball do it! NOTHING else will help you to raise your average faster.

[Amyers]

At the risk of being accused of being harsh, I don't care if your rev rate is 10. Use a plastic spare ball and learn to throw it end over end at EVERY SINGLE PIN SPARE. You are missing 40% of your seven pins, and 42% of your ten pins! Don't eat for a week. Don't buy gas for your care and walk to work. Turn off your telephone and your television. Whatever you need to do to get a plastic spare ball do it! NOTHING else will help you to raise your average faster.

Not harsh that's the advice I need to take.

[richard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u24FitJUzAI

[Aslan]

At the risk of being accused of being harsh, I don't care if your rev rate is 10. Use a plastic spare ball and learn to throw it end over end at EVERY SINGLE PIN SPARE. You are missing 40% of your seven pins, and 42% of your ten pins! Don't eat for a week. Don't buy gas for your care and walk to work. Turn off your telephone and your television. Whatever you need to do to get a plastic spare ball do it! NOTHING else will help you to raise your average faster.

Again, not saying I won't eventually go that route…but…

1) Even if I HAD a plastic spare ball…I wouldn't use in on corner 7s.
and
2) While it would help me pick up more 10s that I'm currently missing left…I'd miss all the corner 10s that I am currently missing right but hooking into…thus, a wash.

[RobLV1]

Did you happen to watch the Queen's telecast? If you get the chance, note that Kelly Kulick picked up a single five pin spare using a plastic ball. When you try to hook the ball into four pins, seven pins, and four-seven combinations, you take the chance of hitting too much oil and missing them right, or setting the ball too far right and finding early friction and missing them left. From your percentage, I'd say that is happening about four out of ten time. At the same time, you are missing even more ten pins because you are trying to use a reactive ball and killing it with your hand position. It's obviously not working! If you learn to use a plastic ball, thrown end-over-end, then every single pin spare has one thing in common: it's easy to convert. Why make this game tougher than it is?

[classygranny]

Rob, why do you indicate to throw the plastic ball end-over-end? My coach and ball driller have me throwing mine with my normal release. I do remember the ball driller telling me that it would NOT hook, even if I wanted it to, and that it may thump over the thumb hole even using my normal release. Which both are true...it goes directly where I throw it.

[Beagle]

I think Rob is trying to tell u to make it a habit...that plastic ball will hook at the Petersen if not thrown end over end.

[RobLV1]

granny: Last Friday in league, we bowled against a woman (a lefty) who threw with a lot of axis rotation and very little ball speed. She had just purchased an Ebonite Maxim (plastic ball) which she used for her strike ball. She used her Storm Frantic to hook accross the lane at right side spares. Plastic will still hook in the dry unless you learn to throw it end-over-end. From your post, it sounds like you have very little axis tilt, so learning a different release to make it go straight is not an issue for you. As a side note, it worked out very well for our team, as their anchor man was also a lefty, and her use of the plastic strike ball caused the oil to carry down and resulted in a total loss of carry for him!

[MICHAEL]

Again, not saying I won't eventually go that route…but…

1) Even if I HAD a plastic spare ball…I wouldn't use in on corner 7s.
and
2) While it would help me pick up more 10s that I'm currently missing left…I'd miss all the corner 10s that I am currently missing right but hooking into…thus, a wash.

I know that Rob is SPOT ON in regards to the spare ball and throwing it straight! Since I went to throwing mine straight, Palm Up,,, not the Back up style, My ten pens pick ups have gotten MUCH BETTER! As to the dry area, and a plastic ball hooking, it sure can! I have seen a few older ladies on the seniors league that throw a beautiful hook into the pocket,,, only problem being their balls are too light, (in my opinion), and deflect too much, giving them poor carry!

As far as the 7 pin goes for right handers,,, I throw a strike ball and get it 99 percent of the time on HOUSE OIL.... I think Rob is Right on in regards to shooting it on a Sports layout! SO TO LEARN TO THROW A SPARE BALL END OVER END,,, Needs to be accomplished if truly want to increase your average on house, but especially on Sports Patterns...

[Amyers]

I have to agree with Rob here you can hook plastic especially on dry conditions.

[RobLV1]

Going straight with plastic is an option on a house shot where you know where the friction is, but it is mandatory on a sport shot. If you ever intend to bowl in tournaments, or even challenge shot leagues, you might just as well get used to it. Once you are used to it, it becomes second nature. You'll know that it's ingrained when you step up to pick up a seven pin or a four pin, and the thought of hooking into it doesn't even cross your mind. Aslan, aren't you currently bowling in a sport shot league? Just sayin'.

[classygranny]

Perhaps I haven't encountered enough of a dry lane condition to see this, although in Vegas this past week it may have. I didn't take the plastic ball as I wanted the other three with me and figured I wouldn't be shooting any stand alone 10 pins (9 pin tap). I need to go in search of some dry lanes so I can get used to them.

I will talk with my coach next time around on the issue of throwing it end-over-end and see where that leads us. Thanks!

I have to say the main reason I haven't been using my plastic on every spare on THS is laziness. I get so tired of having to wait for the ball to return and then moving it to the lower rack underneath. You would think the alleys would have better ball management systems!

[Blacksox1]

At the risk of being accused of being harsh, I don't care if your rev rate is 10. Use a plastic spare ball and learn to throw it end over end at EVERY SINGLE PIN SPARE. You are missing 40% of your seven pins, and 42% of your ten pins! Don't eat for a week. Don't buy gas for your care and walk to work. Turn off your telephone and your television. Whatever you need to do to get a plastic spare ball do it! NOTHING else will help you to raise your average faster.

I like Rob's direct approach here. The last sentence is golden and very true for all.

[Konvict1982]

I was missing 10 pins 80% of the time before I picked up my DV8 Zombie spare and now pick them up close to 90% of the time with a straight shot across the lane. I recently started practicing trying to pick the 10 pin and 7 pin off a full rack with my spare ball without hitting anything else. Great practice and takes away the pressure of worrying about scores due to strikes and spares.

[Aslan]

If you're going to throw it end over end, palm up…why would you need a plastic ball? A reactive resin ball "end over end" won't hook….it has no revolutions. I agree with classygranny; I thought the point of plastic was to keep the release the same without the problems of the ball reacting to the lanes??

[Konvict1982]

If you're going to throw it end over end, palm up…why would you need a plastic ball? A reactive resin ball "end over end" won't hook….it has no revolutions. I agree with classygranny; I thought the point of plastic was to keep the release the same without the problems of the ball reacting to the lanes??

I think using a plastic spare ball allows people to adjust slowly. When I first started using it I threw the same as my strike ball but over time I learned to adjust to where I "can" throw a straight ball and can now pick up spares with my strike ball if I really want to. However there are times when I tug the ball a little and when this happens with a reactive ball you are completely off the mark but with a spare ball the tug isn't going to effect it nearly as much so you have more room for error while learning and even experienced bowlers are sometimes off a hair which can mean the difference in making a corner spare with a reactive ball.

[Amyers]

If you're going to throw it end over end, palm up…why would you need a plastic ball? A reactive resin ball "end over end" won't hook….it has no revolutions. I agree with classygranny; I thought the point of plastic was to keep the release the same without the problems of the ball reacting to the lanes??

Because your not going to throw a perfect end over end release every time. That way if you get a few revs on the ball it still goes straight.

[Hampe]

I've spoken enough about this topic so most of you know my position......Any serious bowler should have a plastic spare ball.

The only spare I currently don't shoot at with a plastic ball is the 2-8, and that's only because "finding a reliable line for the 2-8" is on my list of things to do, just not at the top.

[Aslan]

......Any serious bowler should have a plastic spare ball.

Dang it. Now I'm not a "serious bowler". Granted, with that logic, neither is Norm Duke. Cool, maybe me and Norm can get a beer sometime!

[RobLV1]

Aslan: You are getting your terminologies mixed up. Rev rate has absolutely nothing to do with a bowlers ability to throw and end-over-end shot, rotation does. Reactive resin balls not only provide much more friction than plastic balls do, but they also have dynamic cores within them. When you throw a reactive resin ball at a corner spare and you accidentally put any rotation on the ball, the ball will hook thanks to a the core. The friction from the reactive cover magnifies this. When you throw a plastic ball end over end and accidentally put a little rotation on the ball, there's no core to get it to hook, and no friction from the cover to help it to hook even more. You seriously need to stop comparing yourself to Norm Duke, or Walter Ray, or any other world class bowler. There are very, very few of us who are good enough to do that. Instead, you need to start thinking about what missing 40% of your corner spares is doing to your average, and start doing everything you can to stop missing them. Number one on the list is getting a plastic spare ball and using it for all of your single pin spares.

[Hampe]

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Aslan]

and you accidentally put any rotation on the ball, the ball will hook thanks to a the core. The friction from the reactive cover magnifies this. When you throw a plastic ball end over end and accidentally put a little rotation on the ball, there's no core to get it to hook, and no friction from the cover to help it to hook even more.
Would it not be wiser to concentrate on not "accidentally" putting rotation on the ball rather than buying yet another ball? I mean, if I "accidentally" miss my target right...the plastic ball goes in the gutter. So when that happens...I could make your same arguement and simply say, "If you had a reactive resin ball...it would hook into the 10-pin when you accidentally miss right rather than going in the gutter." It seems like you're trying to add another ball to a scenario based on someone accidentally doing something wrong in their release.

Now granted, I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit. But to me...a plastic ball makes much, much more sense when making the arguement that you can keep your release the same and it won't hook "as much". I've NEVER liked the idea of changing my release to throw a ball end over end. I do it on rare occasions if I have to throw at a weird multi-pin spare leave...but I don't "like" to.


You seriously need to stop comparing yourself to Norm Duke, or Walter Ray, or any other world class bowler. There are very, very few of us who are good enough to do that.
It's merely a goal. Bowling isn't as hard of a sport as people make it out to be...especially in this era of 3x-5x as many perfect games per year. I therefore set a "goal" of trying to someday throw like Earl Anthony, or Walter Ray, or Mika, or Parker Bohn, or even Duke. Granted, they have QUITE a bit of a head start and realiztically I am pretty sure I'll never get to that level. But if I'm going to pattern my game after an elite bowler...and TRY to be an elite bowler...I'm going to choose those that lead nearly every recorded category in bowling history. Some people pattern their game off the "flavor of the month"...many, MANY are learning to throw 2-handed because of Belmo. And I've made the SAME CASE that you are making for NOT patterning my game after Walter Ray (he's the exception and not the rule)...to those 2-handed bowlers (that Belmo is the exception, not the rule)...and have taken quite a bit of heat for it I might add.

It's not a "comparison"...it's a "goal". And I only invoked Norm Duke's name in response to an "absolute" statement that Hampe had made. There are very few "absolutes"...especially in bowling. Hell, I just watched a guy throwing a ball by walking backwards Sunday morning. Granted, I obviously think thats stupid...but the guy wasn't half bad...he was picking up spares and everything. Different strokes for different folks I say.


Instead, you need to start thinking about what missing 40% of your corner spares is doing to your average, and start doing everything you can to stop missing them. Number one on the list is getting a plastic spare ball and using it for all of your single pin spares.

#1 on my list is not throwing the ball like a jackwagon. When I'm confident that the only reason I'm missing those spares...is my reluctance to buy a plastic ball...believe me...and this is coming from a guy that has more bowling ball purchases in the last 2 months than anyone on this website...I WILL NOT HESITATE to buy a plastic ball. But...I threw a plastic ball in my old Thursday league when I was trying out the tri-grip...I wasn't making any more or less spares with that stupid plastic ball. I miss spares...MOST of the time...because I MISS. I pull a shot, the ball gets away from me and channels...whatever the case. We have to stop perpetuating the idea that new balls cure problems in bowling. They don't Me getting a plastic ball will likely do nothing other than have me prematurely retire the Slingshot...and give me less overall options in terms of my arsenal.

Believe me...when I'm confident that it's stubbornness keeping me from picking up spares more than just my inadequacy...I like Norm Duke and all...but not that much. :cool:

Like I said, I agree with the USBC approved spare ball concept. I think for most people it's a good idea. But a LOT of people have been bad spare shooters and disappointed when the shiny Viz-a-Ball they purchased...with some cool skull or beer bottle or sports logo...doesn't make them a better spare shooter. Practice makes someone a better spare shooter. Timing, accuracy, targeting systems, etc... makes people better spare shooters.

I am now motivated to do a quick (Mudpuppy avert your eyes) STATISTICAL TEST....but that is for another thread....this discussion has hijacked this baby long enough. Stand by...statistical test thread coming shortly...

[RobLV1]

Would it not be wiser to concentrate on not "accidentally" putting rotation on the ball rather than buying yet another ball? I mean, if I "accidentally" miss my target right...the plastic ball goes in the gutter. So when that happens...I could make your same arguement and simply say, "If you had a reactive resin ball...it would hook into the 10-pin when you accidentally miss right rather than going in the gutter." It seems like you're trying to add another ball to a scenario based on someone accidentally doing something wrong in their release.

Now granted, I'm playing Devil's advocate a bit. But to me...a plastic ball makes much, much more sense when making the arguement that you can keep your release the same and it won't hook "as much". I've NEVER liked the idea of changing my release to throw a ball end over end. I do it on rare occasions if I have to throw at a weird multi-pin spare leave...but I don't "like" to.


It's merely a goal. Bowling isn't as hard of a sport as people make it out to be...especially in this era of 3x-5x as many perfect games per year. I therefore set a "goal" of trying to someday throw like Earl Anthony, or Walter Ray, or Mika, or Parker Bohn, or even Duke. Granted, they have QUITE a bit of a head start and realiztically I am pretty sure I'll never get to that level. But if I'm going to pattern my game after an elite bowler...and TRY to be an elite bowler...I'm going to choose those that lead nearly every recorded category in bowling history. Some people pattern their game off the "flavor of the month"...many, MANY are learning to throw 2-handed because of Belmo. And I've made the SAME CASE that you are making for NOT patterning my game after Walter Ray (he's the exception and not the rule)...to those 2-handed bowlers (that Belmo is the exception, not the rule)...and have taken quite a bit of heat for it I might add.

It's not a "comparison"...it's a "goal". And I only invoked Norm Duke's name in response to an "absolute" statement that Hampe had made. There are very few "absolutes"...especially in bowling. Hell, I just watched a guy throwing a ball by walking backwards Sunday morning. Granted, I obviously think thats stupid...but the guy wasn't half bad...he was picking up spares and everything. Different strokes for different folks I say.



#1 on my list is not throwing the ball like a jackwagon. When I'm confident that the only reason I'm missing those spares...is my reluctance to buy a plastic ball...believe me...and this is coming from a guy that has more bowling ball purchases in the last 2 months than anyone on this website...I WILL NOT HESITATE to buy a plastic ball. But...I threw a plastic ball in my old Thursday league when I was trying out the tri-grip...I wasn't making any more or less spares with that stupid plastic ball. I miss spares...MOST of the time...because I MISS. I pull a shot, the ball gets away from me and channels...whatever the case. We have to stop perpetuating the idea that new balls cure problems in bowling. They don't Me getting a plastic ball will likely do nothing other than have me prematurely retire the Slingshot...and give me less overall options in terms of my arsenal.

Believe me...when I'm confident that it's stubbornness keeping me from picking up spares more than just my inadequacy...I like Norm Duke and all...but not that much. :cool:

Like I said, I agree with the USBC approved spare ball concept. I think for most people it's a good idea. But a LOT of people have been bad spare shooters and disappointed when the shiny Viz-a-Ball they purchased...with some cool skull or beer bottle or sports logo...doesn't make them a better spare shooter. Practice makes someone a better spare shooter. Timing, accuracy, targeting systems, etc... makes people better spare shooters.

I am now motivated to do a quick (Mudpuppy avert your eyes) STATISTICAL TEST....but that is for another thread....this discussion has hijacked this baby long enough. Stand by...statistical test thread coming shortly...

Okay, I give up! One day you'll figure it out, but I guess it has to be in your own time.

[Amyers]

Aslan a few things:

#1.No one gets a perfect release on any shot on an every time basis. You will always have some variance on how many revs you have on your strike shot and you will most have some amount of revs on your spare shot even though you are trying not too. The entire point is in eliminating as many variables as possible so it truly is just you and hitting your mark. Also this started over sport shots which figure more variances in the pattern of oil and tend to be spottier after being in play than heavier THS.

#2. There are many famous bowlers who have unusual elements to their game doesn't necessarily mean we should emulate them.

#3. "But...I threw a plastic ball in my old Thursday league when I was trying out the tri-grip...I wasn't making any more or less spares with that stupid plastic ball. I miss spares...MOST of the time...because I MISS. I pull a shot, the ball gets away from me and channels...whatever the case. We have to stop perpetuating the idea that new balls cure problems in bowling" This one I will give you some on but you're missing the point here too. Its about removing the variables that are out of your control. You are right with plastic the ten pin sent to the right will go in the gutter it might have hooked and stayed on with the sling shot but you can count on that and need to not get it in your head even subconsciously that you can throw that ball like that and still get it. Why because on most sport patterns their is oil out there and its not going to hook.

#4. Of course balls cure problems in bowling otherwise we would be throwing rubber balls. The right ball on the right condition thrown correctly can improve your game. A ball won't put it in the pocket if you miss (although some balls can give you more miss room), a ball cant hook if you don't have the revs to make it do it, a ball won't pick your spares up for you.

As far as the spares go its not that plastic is going to solve all of your spare shooting problems just that you know with plastic it really is you who missed and not a dry patch on the lane or you not knowing the exact oil composition at a certain spot on the lane. its one less thing to need to think about. All of this from a guy without a plastic spare ball.

[Konvict1982]

Just get you one of these for spares ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31vdI-tlyX0

[Aslan]

#2. There are many famous bowlers who have unusual elements to their game doesn't necessarily mean we should emulate them.

I was going to ask, "Well, then who SHOULD we emulate? I mean, do we emulate the local pro? The guy in the league with the highest average? The most "gifted" (= Iceman)?"...but then I remembered the ananswer to this question is ALWAYS Chris Barnes (unless you are 2-handed, then it's Belmo).

[fortheloveofbowling]

You shouldn't really emulate anyone to a great extent physically. Growing up i always wanted to hook a ball like mark roth but my steps don't vary between 5 and 9. I always liked earl anthony also but i don't recommend that bent elbow throughout the approach he had. You can say i would love to hook a ball like that guy or i wish i had the accuracy of another guy but when you try to look like them doing it in entirety that is going to be a problem.

[RobLV1]

You shouldn't emulate anyone, but you should learn from everyone.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I think that is obvious.

[Aslan]

Growing up i always wanted to hook a ball like mark roth

You and 93% of every other bowler.

I tried to "emulate" WRW, but his accuracy despite that sort of funky delivery is really hard for me (or anyone) to master. I chose Earl Anthony because there's many parts of his approach and release that fit into what I'm working on right now. A slower approach, keeping the head steady, square to the foul line, forward spine tilt, trying to get the knee bent more, and most importantly the focus on accuracy and repeatability over release/revs.

Now, I do vary a bit from Earl. Not only am I a Righty...but I haven't really tried to incorporate his bent elbow. And, his swing leg almost went straight back where as I have trouble balancing and staying paralell to the foul line if I don't have my back leg moving across. Sometimes my balance leg is on the floor, sometimes it gets off the floor...I haven't really been focusing on it much lately.

There are other guys I will "try" to look at and emulate...but can't for certain reasons. PDW and Norm Duke not only have very fast feet...but they have that outward release to the side that makes me throw the ball to the right. I love Mika's game, and his is probably closest to what I tend towards...but he has a much better release and that extremely high backswing that I don't even want to mess with right now. And both Parker and Barnes probably have the "best" technique...but I can't really do what they do unless I master the more modern release.

I think the "danger" of emulating is knowing your own strengths and weaknesses. If I tried to emulate Mark Roth...I'd be back to tossing the ball 12-15ft down the lane trying to torque the (blank) out of it. I'd have no accuracy, my scoring would be erratic, and it would erase most of my progress. I also know that I can't start all the way back in the approach (like most pro bowlers do) because speed is not my "friend" right now. Hopefully as I improve my release, I can add some of that ball speed back in...but not now.

So I see nothing wrong emulating the elite...they are elite for a reason. It's just emulating the right person...and the right parts of their game. And I do it as a SUPPLEMENT to actual instruction not a REPLACEMENT for actual instruction.

[Amyers]

I was going to ask, "Well, then who SHOULD we emulate? I mean, do we emulate the local pro? The guy in the league with the highest average? The most "gifted" (= Iceman)?"...but then I remembered the ananswer to this question is ALWAYS Chris Barnes (unless you are 2-handed, then it's Belmo).

I don't emulate anybody. I bowl like I do. I will take advice and see a small element of someone's game that's better than me and try it but I know I'm not Belmo or PDW (who probably throws closest to how I do) and never will be. This goes double for the unusual elements of PBA players games. If I tried to get Rhino Page's back swing i would end up flipped upside down on the lane with ball on the back of my head.

I just believe the shortest past is straight forward if there is a part of your game you just can't change that forces you into an unusual way of bowling than fine that's part of your style but to go pointing out examples of PBA players as an excuse not to change because they do it like that is just wrong headed.

Your right Norm Duke does throw backup balls with his strike balls but he has nothing else to do but practice it 20 games a day. If you want to make that kind if commitment to doing that okay but it's seems to be your time would be better invested using plastic with an easier system and spen that extra time working on the rest of your game.

[Aslan]

I don't emulate anybody. I bowl like I do.
Are you "gifted"?


If I tried to get Rhino Page's back swing i would end up flipped upside down on the lane with ball on the back of my head.
I thought that actually happened to you recently though???


but to go pointing out examples of PBA players as an excuse not to change because they do it like that is just wrong headed.
I would say it's equally "wrong headed" to say that people should do something simply because everyone else is doing it. The game goes through "phases". Once everyone wore wrist braces...now it's no longer en vogue. Once nobody used a spare ball....now everyone does. I've even been told that in 10-15 years everyone will throw 2-handed. I do what works for me. I emulate those that are the greatest (excluding Iceman). AND...I CHANGE and ADAPT my game based on what I learn. I used a plastic ball, now I don't, maybe I will again someday. I wore a wrist positioner, then didn't, now I do, maybe some day I won't. You have to be willing to adapt and change...not just do whatever everyone else is doing. I tried a plastic ball...it didn't work for me. Maybe it was because I wasn't ready for it...maybe it was because it was 16lb and my strike ball was 15lb...who knows? But I adapted, my spare rate has improved steadily...and if I get to the point where I just can't seem to keep that dang Slingshot from going left...then I will adapt again.


Your right Norm Duke does throw backup balls with his strike balls but he has nothing else to do but practice it 20 games a day. If you want to make that kind if commitment to doing that okay but it's seems to be your time would be better invested using plastic with an easier system and spen that extra time working on the rest of your game.

Well, I doubt Norm would agree that he has "nothing better to do" than practice 20 games a day....but I digress.

I was told by someone that Norm Duke once went 3 years without missing a single-pin spare.

That is my goal. Someday I want to be able to say...that I went 3 entire years...playing in at least one sanctioned league each season...without ever missing a single-pin spare. Now, you're right...I can't devote 20 games a day to that goal...but I WILL get better. And, if I hit a wall where I'm 88% at corner spares....and I just can't seem to get over that last hurdle...and a plastic ball does it for me...it'll be the greatest $125 I'll ever spend. But until then...I think I'll work on the REAL reason I'm missing those spares...my inability to find a consistent target line and my variability in executing the shot.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Maybe you could end all discussion about the plastic ball by getting a old rubber ball for spares. I use a brunswick black diamond my dad purchased in 1962 for my spares. It works just fine for me

[Amyers]

Are you "gifted"?

Heck no I'm not gifted unless your considering making mistakes over and over gifted

I thought that actually happened to you recently though???

Yes it did but without the benefit if the back swing and the ball landed on my chest and not head but close enough


I would say it's equally "wrong headed" to say that people should do something simply because everyone else is doing it. The game goes through "phases". Once everyone wore wrist braces...now it's no longer en vogue. Once nobody used a spare ball....now everyone does. I've even been told that in 10-15 years everyone will throw 2-handed. I do what works for me. I emulate those that are the greatest (excluding Iceman). AND...I CHANGE and ADAPT my game based on what I learn. I used a plastic ball, now I don't, maybe I will again someday. I wore a wrist positioner, then didn't, now I do, maybe some day I won't. You have to be willing to adapt and change...not just do whatever everyone else is doing. I tried a plastic ball...it didn't work for me. Maybe it was because I wasn't ready for it...maybe it was because it was 16lb and my strike ball was 15lb...who knows? But I adapted, my spare rate has improved steadily...and if I get to the point where I just can't seem to keep that dang Slingshot from going left...then I will adapt again.

I never said we should all be cookie cutter bowlers if you can change and find an alternate method that works for you that's fine. Just don't make the excuse of insert "PBA tour player here" does it like that to justify it.


Well, I doubt Norm would agree that he has "nothing better to do" than practice 20 games a day....but I digress.

I was told by someone that Norm Duke once went 3 years without missing a single-pin spare.

That is my goal. Someday I want to be able to say...that I went 3 entire years...playing in at least one sanctioned league each season...without ever missing a single-pin spare. Now, you're right...I can't devote 20 games a day to that goal...but I WILL get better. And, if I hit a wall where I'm 88% at corner spares....and I just can't seem to get over that last hurdle...and a plastic ball does it for me...it'll be the greatest $125 I'll ever spend. But until then...I think I'll work on the REAL reason I'm missing those spares...my inability to find a consistent target line and my variability in executing the shot.

As I've said a plastic spare ball is not a panacea for throwing the ball poorly it just removes a set of variables from the equation.

Finally $125 for a spare ball? Do you really need one that costs that much?



Good luck

[bowl1820]

$125 for plastic ball!! That better becoming with a bag and a pair shoes!

[Hampe]

As usual, Aslan has all the answers. After all, he tried a plastic ball for a whole week and it didn't improve his spares immediately, so we all clearly don't have any clue what we're talking about. It only took me about 4 months until I had lines I was comfortable with for all my spares and I started to see a real improvement in spare shooting (and that's just on THS), but Aslan tried it for a week and it didn't work, so clearly it will never work for him.

I guess he's just determined to find out the hard way.....


Also, spare balls cost 45$.....not 125.
http://www.bowlingball.com/products/bowling-balls/Brunswick/8453/T-Zone-Indigo-Swirl-Blue-Black-White.html

[vdubtx]

As usual, Aslan has all the answers. After all, he tried a plastic ball for a whole week and it didn't improve his spares immediately, so we all clearly don't have any clue what we're talking about. It only took me about 4 months until I had lines I was comfortable with for all my spares and I started to see a real improvement in spare shooting (and that's just on THS), but Aslan tried it for a week and it didn't work, so clearly it will never work for him.

I guess he's just determined to find out the hard way.....


Also, spare balls cost 45$.....not 125.
http://www.bowlingball.com/products/bowling-balls/Brunswick/8453/T-Zone-Indigo-Swirl-Blue-Black-White.html

When you add in drilling, thumb slug, and finger inserts. The $125 price is not far off. Typically drilling is in the $60-70 range, all depends in the area you live.

[bowl1820]

When you add in drilling, thumb slug, and finger inserts. The $125 price is not far off. Typically drilling is in the $60-70 range, all depends in the area you live.

Lets see I got my GF a new whitedot, driled with inserts for her last Birthday it was about 70-80$.

Most of the time around here around when the leagues are starting up. The pro shops have a ball & bag or ball, bag & shoe combo for 100 - 150$

[Amyers]

Lets see I got my GF a new whitedot, driled with inserts for her last Birthday it was about 70-80$.

Most of the time around here around when the leagues are starting up. The pro shops have a ball & bag or ball, bag & shoe combo for 100 - 150$

I got both my kids Brunswick Tzones last year with bag and shoes for $140 for both. Inserts and slug would have been an extra $15 each so $170 for 2 would be $85 each for shoes bag ball inserts and slug.

[Aslan]

Also, spare balls cost 45$.....not 125.
http://www.bowlingball.com/products/bowling-balls/Brunswick/8453/T-Zone-Indigo-Swirl-Blue-Black-White.html


When you add in drilling, thumb slug, and finger inserts. The $125 price is not far off. Typically drilling is in the $60-70 range, all depends in the area you live.


Lets see I got my GF a new whitedot, driled with inserts for her last Birthday it was about 70-80$.

If I were to go down that road; the 3 balls I've looked at are:

Motiv Arctic Sniper: $95 on bowlingball.com, I could probably get it for $145-$165 drilled from the pro shop.
Columbia WD: $53-$58 + $25 shipping online, I could probably get it for $125 drilled from the local pro shop.
Storm Mix: $60 on bowlingball.com, I could probably get it for $125-$145 drilled from the pro shop.

I think I can also get a NFL Vis-a-Ball for like $89.95 on BowlerX...free shipping, probably another $45 to drill it...so that would be $134.99.

So yeah, cheapest option...a $53 WD + $45 drilled = $98 + tax

Remember, it's not just the cost of the ball...I got 10 balls in my closet...it's the $450 in drilling (and the lack of need) that keeps them there.

And I know people on this site get "wired" when people don't automatically take their advice...but like I said, I am not ruling out a plastic ball as an option to improve my spare game. I just have some elements I need to fix before making that move will be optimized. It's not the $125...or the space in my bag...or stubbornness...it's just a "work in progress". All advice appreciated and considered and perhaps will even be acted on at some point.

[Amyers]

If I were to go down that road; the 3 balls I've looked at are:

Motiv Arctic Sniper: $95 on bowlingball.com, I could probably get it for $145-$165 drilled from the pro shop.
Columbia WD: $53-$58 + $25 shipping online, I could probably get it for $125 drilled from the local pro shop.
Storm Mix: $60 on bowlingball.com, I could probably get it for $125-$145 drilled from the pro shop.

I think I can also get a NFL Vis-a-Ball for like $89.95 on BowlerX...free shipping, probably another $45 to drill it...so that would be $134.99.

So yeah, cheapest option...a $53 WD + $45 drilled = $98 + tax

Remember, it's not just the cost of the ball...I got 10 balls in my closet...it's the $450 in drilling (and the lack of need) that keeps them there.

And I know people on this site get "wired" when people don't automatically take their advice...but like I said, I am not ruling out a plastic ball as an option to improve my spare game. I just have some elements I need to fix before making that move will be optimized. It's not the $125...or the space in my bag...or stubbornness...it's just a "work in progress". All advice appreciated and considered and perhaps will even be acted on at some point.

Deffinetly understand the financial part. Lot of difference in the pricing from area to area I guess I'm pretty sure I could get a white dot drilled slugged and everything for $70 on the high side tax and all

[RobLV1]

When you buy a ball from a proshop, the price should include drilling. To pay retail, even a league-discounted retail, and still be charged for drilling is hiway robbery!

[Aslan]

When you buy a ball from a proshop, the price should include drilling. To pay retail, even a league-discounted retail, and still be charged for drilling is hiway robbery!

Exactly! Thats why I said $125. I think I saw a TZone for like $85 in the pro shop and that would include basic drilling. I can find them cheaper online...but then you have to pay $45 to drill them.

It depends on the pro shop how they do it. For example,

- Pro Shop A at my home center, prices are slightly marked up and that includes drilling.
- Pro Shop B (Mike W's), the prices are pretty much what you'd get online and he adds $45 for drilling.
- Pro Shop C, their balls are marked up QUITE a bit (lots of Track and Ebonite stuff...prices in the upper 200s to 300 not uncommon) AND I think they charge $50 to drill it.

For me, I buy discontinued balls on clearance online...about $70-$80 shipped. I then pay Mike $45 + inserts to drill them. For something NOT discontinued....like a plastic spare ball...I'd probably just buy it from the local pro shop to keep the business in the pro shop/house...and I'd probably get it and get it drilled for less than what I'd get it for online and then bring it in to have it drilled...or at least very close ($1-$15).

[Amyers]

Exactly! Thats why I said $125. I think I saw a TZone for like $85 in the pro shop and that would include basic drilling. I can find them cheaper online...but then you have to pay $45 to drill them.

It depends on the pro shop how they do it. For example,

- Pro Shop A at my home center, prices are slightly marked up and that includes drilling.
- Pro Shop B (Mike W's), the prices are pretty much what you'd get online and he adds $45 for drilling.
- Pro Shop C, their balls are marked up QUITE a bit (lots of Track and Ebonite stuff...prices in the upper 200s to 300 not uncommon) AND I think they charge $50 to drill it.

For me, I buy discontinued balls on clearance online...about $70-$80 shipped. I then pay Mike $45 + inserts to drill them. For something NOT discontinued....like a plastic spare ball...I'd probably just buy it from the local pro shop to keep the business in the pro shop/house...and I'd probably get it and get it drilled for less than what I'd get it for online and then bring it in to have it drilled...or at least very close ($1-$15).

$300 for a ball man I need to go to CA and get in the ball drilling business. There is not a single ball that can't be had here for less than $225 most 150ish and could pick up a lot of stuff $100 everything included.

[Bunny]

Got my Ebonite Maxim spare for $75 cash including drilling with finger inserts from Barry at Fountain Bowl. Hard to beat that deal.

[Aslan]

Got my Ebonite Maxim spare for $75 cash including drilling with finger inserts from Barry at Fountain Bowl. Hard to beat that deal.

Thats pretty good actually.

I was at a cool pro shop yesterday getting my ball surfaced and I noticed a Columbia Benchmark for like $175 and I'm thinking, "That ball has been discontinued for AWHILE....I can get it for like $70...and it's not even that good of a ball! I think the Asylum was about $185.

It really does vary from shop to shop.

[Konvict1982]

Columbia WD and T-Zones at my local shop for $60 drilled