Lines Drying up VS Carry-Down

[Aslan]

I noticed something interesting rolling on the Wolf pattern this past Sunday. I had read about it, but Sunday was the first time I personally noticed it.

It seemed like the Wolf was made more difficult...because every time you'd move left (as the line dried up and you moved left to find oil)...it would work...but then you'd miss right on the exact same shot. The Wolf more so than any THS seemed to cause a unique problem where if you don't move left...the ball starts to hook inside and go through the head. But if you move left...it looks like a good shot but then seems to catch some of the carry-down oil and not make the anticipated move into the pocket.

This seemed more pronounced on the Wolf pattern than THS despite only having 3-person teams because the Wolf is a rather flat pattern in terms of having a fair amount of oil extending all the way to the 1-2 boards on either side of the lane. I know it's not "flat" in terms of volume...but it covers more of the lane. So while many players will stay outside of board 10, in the lighter volumes on a THS; you'd have to play the 1-2 board to get any relief on the Wolf.

And that, I think, is why carry-down was more of a factor...because the oil was unavoidable. So everyone was pushing it down the lane. And because we all knew it was a short pattern...we were all very careful to get the ball outside enough to keep it right of the headpin. So that seemed to be pushing this heavier volume of oil up that 2-10 board area...and then the ball wouldn't come back as much.

So it was sort of a "danged if you do, danged if you don't" kind of situation...since the closer part of the lane...the oil was being sucked up by the bowling balls...yet the big dry area in front of the pin deck was having oil being deposited. I ended up constantly moving one way, then back, then forward, then back.

Here is an interesting article I found about lines drying up/carrydown: http://www.kegel.net/V3/ArticleDetails.aspx?ID=91
And here is another good one: http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/bowling-lane-oil-carry-down-and-break-down

What I don't quite understand even after reviwing those articles is...what to do about it. Your ball is going to hit some drier lines early (other balls soaked up the oil) which will cause them to maybe start to grab earlier....okay. But then...somehow it gets deposited (or pushed) further down...so the ball that started to hook a little earlier...now skids a little more on the backend than normal. Seems like those might almost even each other out....and maybe thats why I didn't notice it as much on a THS versus the short sport pattern. :confused:

[RobLV1]

Please note that I am only going to address the Kegel article because, quite frankly, I don't know who wrote the bowlingball.com article, nor when it was written. In skimming it I did note some really inaccurate information.

In terms of the Kegel article:

"In addition, as we stated before, carrydown at the end of the pattern with high flaring balls is not as defined as it was in the 1980’s, or when lower flaring urethane balls were in use. Therefore today there is simply not enough defined carrydown to go around and use as hold area. High rev players tend to get their advantage today more from rapid pattern breakdown towards the mid and end part of the pattern, not carrydown. As most know, low to non-flaring balls today are most often regulated to shooting spares and therefore, those long strips of carrydown are more random across the lane surface - sometime you’ll hit a strip, and sometimes you won’t."

"Remember, today you must think different. No longer are we using non-flaring balls on less than 5 milliliters of solvent based lane conditioner like we did in the 1970’s. No longer are we using low flaring balls on 12 milliliters of oil with massive carrydown like we did in the mid to late 1980’s. No longer are we bowling on lanes that are resurfaced every year like was mandated until deletion of the rule. No longer is levelness being maintained regularly like we did prior to advent of synthetic lanes."

Basically, what this article is saying is the same thing that we have talked about on several occasions in the past. Plastic and urethane balls create carrydown. Reactive balls create very little. The carrydown streaks that are created contain less than 5 units of oil, and modern reactive bowling balls do not react to oil volumes that are under 8 units. When you move left on a short pattern and see that your ball does not make it back, it's because it has expended all of its energy early and burned up, not hit the mythical carrydown. For all but the highest speed and highest rev players, the most effective move when the pattern starts to break down on a short pattern is to move right, not left, and keep the ball further toward the outside of the lane. This is why it is not uncommon to see bowlers throw gutter balls on short patterns as they are trying to get their bowling balls to hang over the gutter at forty feet.

[Shaneshu87]

Please note that I am only going to address the Kegel article because, quite frankly, I don't know who wrote the bowlingball.com article, nor when it was written. In skimming it I did note some really inaccurate information.

For all but the highest speed and highest rev players, the most effective move when the pattern starts to break down on a short pattern is to move right, not left, and keep the ball further toward the outside of the lane. This is why it is not uncommon to see bowlers throw gutter balls on short patterns as they are trying to get their bowling balls to hang over the gutter at forty feet.

Bingo, i threw my highest series on Wolf by playing 5-1 using a dull early rolling ball (Raw Hammer Jacked) i was proud by not having any gutters and i was relatively clean, shot 613. but one thing i have found is that when shooting on any sport shot the move to make is always to the right.

[Amyers]

From everything I have read and from my personal experience for all practical purposes carry-down no longer exists in league conditions. I still remember the old days when everything was plastic and urethane and you would see this. It could make lines very difficult. The only time I have experienced carry down since my return to bowling is in open bowling after a bunch of kids threw a ton of plastic down the middle. Even then only once or twice.

What you are describing Aslan was not the effect of carry down anyway. Carry-down was your ball would start to hook then stop then hook again on the same shot. With the older urethane balls they were mostly sooner hooking gradual arc type of rolls so it was very noticeable when it happened.

Modern balls, modern oils, and modern patterns have made this a thing of the past that current bowlers mistakenly use to blame other problems on.

[mc_runner]

The only real problems with carrydown I've seen is in open bowling after a night of cosmic bowl when the lanes haven't been reoiled :P Always interesting to bowl on fried heads and oil all the way to the pins.

[Mike White]

From everything I have read and from my personal experience for all practical purposes carry-down no longer exists in league conditions.

I would say that has a lot to do with the type of leagues you bowl in.

I range from senior mixed leagues to high average handicap leagues.

I see plenty of balls thrown straight at the headpin near 2nd-3rd arrow, and therefore notice plenty of carry down.

In the high average leagues, fewer straight balls are thrown, which carry less oil down.

[Aslan]

Okay...okay...okay....

Maybe what I noticed wasn't "carry-down"...I just thought I'd throw it our there as a thought provoking topic of sorts.

I mean, I could have just started another "What ball should I buy" thread...but I figured I'd mix it up.

[bowl1820]

Some extra reading:

Click for El Dorado & El Diablo: Understanding Good and Bad Friction (http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/el_dorado_el_diablo_april_2013.pdf)

Click for Lane Pattern Transition: Creating a Good Wedge (http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskijune10.pdf)
I share with readers details how men and women deplete the lane as well as how a team of bowlers can deplete the pattern to their advantage.

Click for The Myth of Carry Down: How Lanes Really Transition (http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinski_oct_for_slowinski.pdf)
oil depletion is why ball motion changes in the modern sport of bowling.

Click for THE INSIDE LINE: 2011/03/23 - Oil Pattern Depletion By Ted Thompson (http://www.kegel.net/V3/ArticleDetails.aspx?ID=76)

[Aslan]

Dang It.

Bowl1820 always has cooler articles than me!! :mad:

After reading those...rather than sit down after finding my strike line in practice...I'll be throwing my solid coverstock ball right of my line to create some cushion...and throwing it left of their best bowler's line to mess with his/hers. I love things that allow me to be evil! :cool:

[Amyers]

Dang It.

Bowl1820 always has cooler articles than me!! :mad:

After reading those...rather than sit down after finding my strike line in practice...I'll be throwing my solid coverstock ball right of my line to create some cushion...and throwing it left of their best bowler's line to mess with his/hers. I love things that allow me to be evil! :cool:

How about throwing a line that actually gets you strikes or have you just given up on that?

[Aslan]

How about throwing a line that actually gets you strikes or have you just given up on that?

We're pretty sure at this point...that such a line only exists in the lost city of Atlantis.

[Amyers]

We're pretty sure at this point...that such a line only exists in the lost city of Atlantis.

Then maybe you should hold your competition with Iceman here. but the motorcycle rides going to be a b***

http://www.atlantisbowling.be/en