New bowler sore fingers and backup vs. regular delivery questions

[renenkel]

Hello Bowling Gurus -- I've been bowling for a few weeks now, first with house balls, and two weeks ago I got my own ball at a local pro shop. They gave me a 14 lb. mastermind genius drilled for full fingertip grip. I started out rolling it straight, and worked on developing a right-to-left hook delivery with the help of a friend who is a local league bowler. (I'm right handed, 6 ft, 185 lbs, 50 yrs old.)

After a week of practicing that, with poor consistency and shooting scores under 100, I saw my friend roll a backup ball and thought it looked intriguing. I thought, why not try that, it couldn't hurt? After two practice shots, I played a whole game throwing backup balls (with left-to-right hook) from the left side of the lane toward the left side of the headpin, and lo-and-behold, I scored 175! I was astonished! What an improvement! And it felt so effortless. Okay, I thought, so maybe that's what I'm meant to do. I continued to practice that, and a week later bowled a 189 game. Now I was making progress!

The only problem is, after switching to the backup ball, the knuckles of my two middle fingers are very sore and swollen. It's so bad I have to put them on ice afterwards and take anti-inflammatories. I'm afraid that if I continue playing this way, they may be seriously injured and I may not be able to bowl any more. This didn't happen with the normal delivery.

Has anyone had a similar problem? Does a ball need to be drilled differently to throw backup balls? Is that what's wrong?

Also, since I'm a "blank slate" beginner, is there any reason why I should play so much better throwing backup balls? Perhaps something related to my anatomy? Or could it be that maybe the lanes just aren't as rutted on the left side?

Should I ignore the early success I've had so far with the backup ball and focus on learning to throw the normal hook shot instead, which didn't hurt my fingers, even though it was more frustrating and progress was slow?

Sore and confused,
Robert

[Blomer]

Hi Robert,

There are a lot more people who will be able,to give you better advice on here than me, but here's my thinking...

When you say back up ball. I'm assuming a house ball? If so, those balls are usually plastic or so and won't hook much if at all. They are also not drilled to your hand measurements, so that may be a reason why it hurts. When throwing that ball, you are most,likely throwing it straight and may ahve better success than the ball you bought as you don't have much practice with it. When throwing the ball you got, it's measured to your hand and is why it doesn't hurt when you throw it. If I was you, I would practice with the ball you bought and stay away from your back up ball. Though you may want to buy one as they are great for spares. As your ball is drilled with finger tip grips, that will make your ball hook as well as how it's drilled. Practice practice, practice and you will get better. I was in your shows last yr. as i practiced I has able to the pocket a lot better and more often. I learned where to stand, where my target is and how to throw it. Shortly later I had my first 200 game. With a hook, you will get more pin action helping your scores a lot. Stick with your new ball! Good luck!

[bowl1820]

Hi Robert,

There are a lot more people who will be able,to give you better advice on here than me, but here's my thinking...

When you say back up ball. I'm assuming a house ball?

That's not what he's talking about.

A "Back up" ball is not referring to a plastic or spare ball.

A "Back up" ball is a shot that hooks the opposite direction of normal. That is, left to right for a right-handed bowler or right to left for a left-handed bowler.

[bowl1820]

Should I ignore the early success I've had so far with the backup ball and focus on learning to throw the normal hook shot instead,

Hi welcome to the board.

Okay standard first response

Being a blank slate You should see a local coach and maybe get a lesson or two to get you started on the right track.

Yes, you should ignore the early success. You got better at it because you kept practicing at it, keep practicing at the normal release and you'll get better at it.

Plus you won't be injuring your fingers! Throwing a backup ball you are having to twist your arm and hand in basically a unnatural direction.

Using a normal release you'll have better control and have better leverage on the ball. Which will give you better consistency , rev's and power.


Move back right and just try the simple beginners 45 degree release, it's one of the first releases you learn and it will give you a good basic roll on the ball, with some hook.

Just hold the ball with a firm straight wrist, (Don't worry about cupping or cocking your wrist/hand)
http://www.bowlingboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=683&d=1352471342

and hold the hand at a 45 degree angle
http://s19.postimage.org/426j213sz/45deghand.jpg

You hold this position throughout the swing and just release it down the lane.

Thumb first, then the fingers, just roll the ball off the hand. Don't try to make it hook, let the ball do the work. (The Mastermind Genius is a pretty strong ball.)

[renenkel]

That's not what he's talking about.
A "Back up" ball is not referring to a plastic or spare ball.
A "Back up" ball is a shot that hooks the opposite direction of normal. That is, left to right for a right-handed bowler or right to left for a left-handed bowler.

Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for the clarification.

[mike_thomas93]

Ohh mastermind Genius is my next ball on my wish list. Plan to get it in another week. Welcome, new member.

[renenkel]

Ohh mastermind Genius is my next ball on my wish list. Plan to get it in another week. Welcome, new member.
Thanks! They asked me what color of ball I wanted and I said green, so they gave me the green/black/gold mastermind genius. Guess I was lucky to get a good ball, and green too!! :-)

[zdawg]

I can tell you I injured my first knuckle on my middle finger on my right hand throwing a backup ball. At some point I need to make a Dr appointment and get it checked out, as some nights it gets very swollen just bowling normally - my problem is the middle finger doesn't come out of the ball quick enough and the finger tip gets bent sideways, so I'm fairly certain there is some damage to the joint.

So, yes you can injure yourself throwing a backup ball if your finger/s aren't clearing the holes properly.

[renenkel]

I can tell you I injured my first knuckle on my middle finger on my right hand throwing a backup ball.
Wow, that's sobering info. That's exactly what was happening to me. The finger was getting bent sideways. Do you still throw the backup ball or have you switched to the normal way?

[mike_thomas93]

lol nice. What can I say? Green's my fav color too. And I wanna get a chance to use green-colored inserts, soo that's my opportunity right there. :)

[mike_thomas93]

So they just asked you and handed it to you? How did that come about? Are you just beginning to bowl or what's the deal?

[renenkel]

So they just asked you and handed it to you? How did that come about? Are you just beginning to bowl or what's the deal?
Yes, just beginning to bowl. But I didn't mean to imply they gave it to me for free. I did have to pay for it. And quite a lot too!! :-)

[zdawg]

Wow, that's sobering info. That's exactly what was happening to me. The finger was getting bent sideways. Do you still throw the backup ball or have you switched to the normal way?

Nope, I gave up throwing the backup ball. I will be getting a new ball soon, I'm gonna ask that they enlarge the fingertip holes in my current ball in addition to the one I buy to see if that might help. Its funny, because most people say their wrist bothers them when they throw the backup

[renenkel]

Hi welcome to the board. [....]
Move back right and just try the simple beginners 45 degree release, it's one of the first releases you learn and it will give you a good basic roll on the ball, with some hook. [....]

Thanks for the advice bowl1820! And pictures too, that was really helpful!

I spent my 3 hours today practicing the release you suggested. After a while it started to kick in, and I managed to bowl a 174 game....not as much as the 189 I got with the backup ball reverse hook, but not bad considering I was only able to do about 100 with the normal release before. And my fingers don't hurt at all this way! You're right, that ball doesn't have to spin too much in order to hook nicely and get strikes.

I think I figured out what was going wrong before too. When I was throwing well, I noticed that the release happened right around my sliding foot, and it felt good. If I happened to release too far in front of my foot, the ball lofted up too high in the air, my thumb had a hard time coming out, and it was a bad shot. So I tried to adjust the size of my steps to make things coordinate. When I got it right, I bowled well. I still need to work more on that. It's tough...when I concentrate on one thing and get that right, something else goes wrong!

Next time I'm going to set up a video camera so I can see what I'm doing. I'm amazed at how hard it is for me to tell while I'm bowling. Also I found a coach and am going to try to set up some lessons soon.

Thanks again for the help! Hopefully I'll be able to get the hang of this eventually....

Robert

[mc_runner]

You nailed it exactly! The ball should be coming out right when you come by your sliding foot. RobLV1's advice of posting shots is really good too and has helped me with my timing - after you release, hold your follow through until the ball clears the pins. If you can hold it, your timing is good. If you fall away or get off balance, you'll know you need to work on your timing.

[Hammer]

This Mastermind Genious ball has an asymmetric core and is made for heavy oil lane condition with a low RG. With you being a beginning bowler I think you jumped into too much of a ball for learning the correct technique to bowl. You should be starting with a symmetric core
ball with a higher RG and more of an entry level ball. Are you bowling on a Typical House Shot oil pattern which is usually used for house leagues? That Genious ball will be rough going for you on a THS pattern with you just starting out. You have to learn a good release first.

[Aslan]

Should I ignore the early success I've had so far with the backup ball and focus on learning to throw the normal hook shot instead, which didn't hurt my fingers, even though it was more frustrating and progress was slow
Yes. ignore that. Beginners that are children or young ladies...totally new to the sport...sometimes they naturally throw one and the youth coaching manual/protocol is to let them do it that way. But for adults, especially men...even at the beginner level...it's usually something you want to change. It might not be a big deal early on, but you'll have a very low ceiling on what you can ultimately accomplish.

I had a lady on my team a season ago that threw back-up...she was 120-130 average. I have a guy on my current team, new bowler, and he throws a very hard, straight, back-up ball...averages 130.

It's like when a more experienced bowler strikes Brooklyn (wrong side of the headpin) and they kinda act annoyed. It's because they know they actually missed and got lucky...and they can't rely on that luck to continue.


Thanks! They asked me what color of ball I wanted and I said green, so they gave me the green/black/gold mastermind genius. Guess I was lucky to get a good ball, and green too!! :-)
That is ALL kinds of wrong.


When I was throwing well, I noticed that the release happened right around my sliding foot, and it felt good. If I happened to release too far in front of my foot, the ball lofted up too high in the air, my thumb had a hard time coming out,
Good job. You found your problem immediately. What you're talking about is called "timing". Correct/proper timing releases the ball as your swing arm is paralell with your slide foot. Now, bowlers have all different styles and what works for one doesn't always work for another. But if you wait too long to release and find yourself standing straight up (rather than bent over at the foul line)...your fingers are doing alot of the work. Not only are they rotating the ball (in the wrong direction)...but they are also lifting the ball. That combo probably is causing your finger soreness.

I will occasionally throw a back-up ball to pick up certain difficult, left-side spares. But I release is it low, I'm bent over at the foul line (forward spine tilt), and I use my palm of my hand more (coming under/around rather than up the side). I actually have a better release with my back-up ball (technically speaking) because I keep my hand behind the ball more. But if were to try to throw that same back-up ball using my old straight up "hand to the ceiling" type of release...I'd probably snap off a finger in the process.


With you being a beginning bowler I think you jumped into too much of a ball for learning the correct technique to bowl.
Agreed.


You should be starting with a symmetric core
Not necessarily; but I would agree.

It sounds like this guy asked for a green ball and the pro shop guy gave him the most expensive green ball in the joint. NOT what I would have reccomended. And kinda not cool of the pro shop guy, in my opinion.

I just helped a friend pick out a new ball. He asked for my opinion and I gave him 3 good choices, Brunswick Strike King, RotoGrip Wrecker, or Storm Hy Road. All entry-mid level balls with symmetric cores. He went in the pro shop and the guy at the counter (not the pro, a fill-in guy) kinda pointed towards an Arson Low Flare...but agreed the Wrecker would also be a good ball to go with. My buddy looked at a Hyper Cell and both me and the pro agreed that would probably be too much ball to start with. So, he got a RotoGrip Wrecker. If he continues to bowl, it'll be a good ball for a couple years as he perfects his game. THEN...he can step up. But this is a guy that has on more than one occasion in league play thrown 0 frames...has on more than one occasion scored < 90...and has < 120 average. He needs to learn how to bowl and hit a target consistently before giving him a Hyper Cell and suddenly in addition to learning how to bowl...he's got a ball moving all over the place on the back end. Not to mention, a ball that strong...how's he gonna pick up spares? If my Slingshot hooks too much to pick up a 10-pin....with my ultra weak rev rate...how could I throw a Hyper Cell at a 10-pin??

[Amyers]

I've been wondering about that myself. What kind of self respecting pro shop sets a brand new bowler up with a Mastermind Genius? That's about like seeing your kid got an A on his 2nd grade math exam and handing him a book on quantum physics.

[renenkel]

Are you bowling on a Typical House Shot oil pattern which is usually used for house leagues? That Genious ball will be rough going for you on a THS pattern with you just starting out. You have to learn a good release first.
Yes, I'm bowling on ordinary run-of-the-mill lanes. The amount of oil varies from day to day. Some days, the ball comes back coated with oil, and I have to wipe it off after every shot. Other days, it comes back completely dry, no wiping necessary over my whole practice session.

I've noticed that on the oil-less days, I have to throw the ball faster or else it hooks like crazy just before the pins, and hits the 7 pin (or even the left gutter) even though it was near the right gutter on the way in. If I throw harder, it hooks less and I can strike.

On the oily days, I can throw slow and it will roll straight and then hook a bit and hit the pocket nicely.

It's quite a balancing act getting the speed and spin right for the conditions, and I haven't quite got the hang of yet to be consistent.

[renenkel]

I've been wondering about that myself. What kind of self respecting pro shop sets a brand new bowler up with a Mastermind Genius? That's about like seeing your kid got an A on his 2nd grade math exam and handing him a book on quantum physics.
I like your analogy, Amyers. Although I don't think I got very many A's in grad school math, but I did teach myself calculus in grade 5, and started building computers in grade 6 (back in the 70's when that might actually have meant something :-) Unfortunately my bowling talent is far from comparable!!! :-) :-)

[rv driver]

It's like when a more experienced bowler strikes Brooklyn (wrong side of the headpin) and they kinda act annoyed. It's because they know they actually missed and got lucky...and they can't rely on that luck to continue.
I remember one game I got into a groove and shot a 230 -- all but two of my strikes were brooklyn.