Trying to Setup Bowling Arsenal, but all the balls react the same.

[bobforsaken]

I have an Ebonite Cyclone (my first ball) with a safe layout (since I didn't have a ball to measure my PAP at the time). Later I got an IQ Tour Fusion and yesterday got an Optimus both with the same layout. (drilled for angular back end, I believe 3 3/8th PIN to PAP). I was previously dismayed that my Cyclone and IQ tour Fusion seemed to perform exactly the same despite the difference in cost and intended purpose. Now I'm really confused because the Optimus also gives me the same as the other two. Is this Normal? I can take the Fusion and find a nice line to the pocket, and the Optimus seems to be able to play that same line. Playing deeper in the Oil or more of the Track area doesn't seem to matter. A few times I've even gotten Turkey's Alternating Balls on the same line to the pocket. I am a new bowling and lower Rev with a High Track (or so I'm told), If that makes a difference.

Is it just me with my lower revs masking the differences in the balls or is this considered normal for the 3 Balls below:

Ebonite Cyclone/Solid GB10.7 Coverstock/2.53RG Diff .053 (Med/Light Oil)

IQ Tour Fusion/R2S Hybrid Coverstock/ 2.49RG Diff .029 (Med/Heavy Oil)

Optimus/ R2X Pearl Coverstock/2.48RG Diff .048 (Med/Heavy Oil)

I have one more ball I'm slated to get next month, but I have no idea how to build my arsenal if the balls keep coming out serving the same role. I was hoping to use the Fusion for a benchmark ball and to play the Track area of our house shot, then as the Track breaks down and I have to move deeper switch to a more angular Optimus. Reserving use the Cyclone with some polish to play up the boards a bit more or Dry Conditions.

[Amyers]

First off welcome to the boards. As to your question yes the lower revs can mask some of the differences between balls and all of your balls have high finishes on them. Cyclone - solid but 4000, tour fusion - hybrid 1500 polished, Optimus - 1500 polished. Add this to the similar Rg's between the balls and you've basically got three balls that on medium conditions are going to give you a very similar look. In addition the Cyclone is stronger than you think on the cover stock.

I would suggest taking the cyclone down to 2000 or 1500, knock the polish off the fusion and put it at 3000, leave the Optimus and I think you might see some separation between the balls.

This is the best solution I can think of partially you may need to do some work to increase your revs also depending on how low low is.

[bobforsaken]

Thanks AMyers. So if I understand you correctly, I would make the Cyclone the most aggressive heavier oil ball, Fusion in the middle, and Optimus for length and more dry conditions? Would a typical ball change strategy be to Start on my most comfortable (track) line with the Optimus, move left as lanes transition and switch to Fusion then to Cyclone as I move deeper? OR Start with Cyclone and as it starts to over react move to Fusion and then to Optimus?

Sorry.. I'm a newbie and trying to understand how best to setup a strategy for making ball changes so that I know what I want out of this Arsenal. To answer your question as to Rev Rate.. On I good day I may be hitting 300.. but usually more in the 200 to 250 range I would guess.

[Amyers]

That was what I was getting at you could also drop the fusion to 2000 leave the Optimus as it is and and polish the cyclone

I believe with both polished you would see the difference between the Optimus and cyclone

The difference you are going to see here is the Optimus will have more of a hockey stick shape to the hook the fusion is going to give you more of a controlled arc

Use whichever gives you a better look that night you could start with either of the fusion or Optimus see which one is working better that night

[bobforsaken]

The difference you are going to see here is the Optimus will have more of a hockey stick shape to the hook the fusion is going to give you more of a controlled arc

Use whichever gives you a better look that night you could start with either of the fusion or Optimus see which one is working better that night

I'm pretty bad at judging the motion of the ball but I'm pretty sure I'm getting that Arc with the Fusion now and the hockey stick with the Optimus now based on their current covers (R2S Hybrid vs R2X Pearl). The perceived issue is that they both seem to start at the same point and get to the same point. However if the difference in entry angles could be helpful, like allowing me to stay on a particular line when I seem to be leaving the 10 Pin over and over, then I may just polish up the Cyclone and keep the fusion OOB.

If that makes sense, the would my next ball be a big heavy oil solid (Zero Gravity, Crux, or Marvel S) , or would there be another suggestion?(besides a spare ball, which I will get) Thx again

[RobLV1]

I was hoping to use the Fusion for a benchmark ball and to play the Track area of our house shot, then as the Track breaks down and I have to move deeper switch to a more angular Optimus. Reserving use the Cyclone with some polish to play up the boards a bit more or Dry Conditions.

First of all, your were "hoping to use the Fusion for a benchmark ball and to play the track area of our house shot." Really? Playing the lanes the way you want to play them is like doing things your way instead of the way your wife tells you to... you lose! The Fusion has the lowest rg which means that it is designed to roll the earliest with the smallest differential which means the least amount of axis migration. The Optimus is slightly higher with a polished surface and a strong cover which means very angular off the spot (depending on the layout), and the Cyclone is an entry level ball. Put a little bit of surface on the Fusion (2000 abralon lightly), and start there. If you can start to move in and throw it out and still get it back, go to the Optimus. If not, stay direct and use the Cyclone. Don't change the surface on the Cyclone - that makes no sense at all.

[bobforsaken]

First of all, your were "hoping to use the Fusion for a benchmark ball and to play the track area of our house shot." Really? Playing the lanes the way you want to play them is like doing things your way instead of the way your wife tells you to... you lose!.

Perhaps I should have rephrased... With my Speed Dominant (lower rev) style, the Fusion works perfectly for me in the Track area, so I was hoping to build my arsenal off of that, with it as my bench mark. Why would changing the surface on the Cyclone not make sense? It currently also works very well on the track for me and despite the difference in coverstocks and differentials between the fusion and cyclone they both are currently reacting the same and not really helping add anything.

[Amyers]

Maybe the question we should ask exactly what are you looking for?

You have a different look between the Optimus and tour hybrid

So I'm guessing your issue is the tour and cyclone are too close together?

[bobforsaken]

Maybe the question we should ask exactly what are you looking for?

You have a different look between the Optimus and tour hybrid

So I'm guessing your issue is the tour and cyclone are too close together?

I think you helped me realize that the difference in shape is enough of a difference between the Fusion and Optimus to be valuable. I was looking only at starting point-->Target--->Endpoint. But if the differences in the Arc vs Hockey Stick motion gives me something like a more subtle change in entry angle that allows me to keep playing the same line a little longer, then I may be OK with the Fusion and Optimus the way they are.

So then I would look for a role for the Cyclone.. Sounds like Polishing it up may give me a closer or very dry condition ball. Sounds like it may be worth a shot.

[Amyers]

Sounds like your getting it with the fusion and Optimus your looking for the different entry angles to give you carry for the corner pins

Polishing the cyclone would make it go slightly longer and hook a little sharper than it currently does

[bobforsaken]

Thanks! I feel better about this now. I guess I thought getting different coverstock and differentials with the same layout would make the balls somehow just work better in a certain area of the lane. Like the Fusion works well standing 16-22 throwing towards the 9-12 boards and another ball's wheel house (with the way I throw it) would be starting at the 12 board for a target up to maybe the 15 board. (adjusting feet to get to the same breakpoint roughly) I'm thinking I was wrong and really won't be able so simulate how the ball will help me on a fresh (not broken down) THS. Maybe I'll see more differences as the lanes do break down and the track gets burnt up that the optimus' hockey stick really does shine playing deeper and bouncing it off the burned up track where the fusion would read too early and go Brooklyn. Thanks again for your help!

[JJKinGA]

I love the cyclone for a house shot! I recently got an optimus to give the same shape and look as the cyclone but handle the fresher oil better. Totally worth it. I play to optimus until I start seeing it use too much energy. then switch to the cyclone.

With your speed dominant style and a house shot you won't see a large difference between balls. You'll probably see a few feet difference in where it starts to move.

[bobforsaken]

I love the cyclone for a house shot! I recently got an optimus to give the same shape and look as the cyclone but handle the fresher oil better. Totally worth it. I play to optimus until I start seeing it use too much energy. then switch to the cyclone.

With your speed dominant style and a house shot you won't see a large difference between balls. You'll probably see a few feet difference in where it starts to move.

Thanks... is your Cyclone OOB finish? How do you tell when your optimus starts using too much energy. Is it more tangible like a particular pin leave or subtle like noticing a slow move off the breakpoint (something that may be hard to explain to a novice like myself)

[Amyers]

I think sometimes with all the marketing we expect more differences in balls than there really are. Some will be earlier than others some will be different shapes on the hook but at the end of the day mostly they are going to end up in the same spot. The ball helps control when it hooks and your entry angle most everything else is how you throw it.

[bobforsaken]

So would there be a more appropriate ball choice than another for a particular angle being played. Say I wanted to play straight up the boards in the dry area around the 5 board. My choices were a High flare Hyroad Pearl which, for the sake of argument, gets to the pocket with a sharp back end hockey stick type move. Vs a Pitch Black or Tropical breeze with a slow arc to the pocket playing the same line? My intuition would say the hockey stick would be too sharp an entry angle leaving to a lot of wrap 10's and the arc would work better... but of course I'm a newbie and don't know what the hell I'm talking about.. LOL.

[Amyers]

Well I will warn you I have my opinions (I spend way too much time watching people bowl and figuring out what works for me) but sometimes others have a different take than I do. With your question you asked it depends on style and the lane conditions you bowl on. I have a team mate that bowls with the Hyroad Pearl starts it off around 15 at the laydown goes out to about 5 at the break point and roars back to the pocket with a lot of success its his favorite ball. We bowl on a heavier oiled surface than most lanes offer on their THS (took me a long time to figure this out as a lot of the advice I got didn't work well and I couldn't figure out why). So your experiences maybe different.

One type of movement is not necessarily better than another both work. Try to figure out in practice which is working better that day for you. Lanes are always different. I know in my leagues generally where I'm going to start looking at each time but I may be playing lines that are 5 boards different with my feet and an arrow different with my target from week to week. Humidity, temperature, and for me some weeks I just throw a little different so what's working for me changes.

In my opinion if your just league bowling you have a nice three ball setup between the Cyclone, Fusion and Optimus. Worry more about expanding your abilities to throw different lines and move with the feet than adding another ball other than a spare ball. If you can get to where you can throw the ball anywhere from the third board to the middle arrow and still put it in the pocket you will have opened up more area to bowl in than you will ever need in a three game set.

If you start bowling in tournaments or sport conditions more balls may become necessary to handle the different oil patterns. Save your money until your facing something you know you need something different to handle. Then you will be able to explain to your pro shop what you are facing and what you are looking for and they can come up with something that is suited to that particular look you need.

If you have to have something else with the balls mentioned above the tropical breeze is stronger than you think and will be similar to the cyclone, I'm not sure why a speed dominate bowler would need urethane I haven't really seen anybody using one of these so I can't comment beyond that urethane from my understanding is more for rev dominate types on more burnt conditions, the Hyroad pearl is a great ball but at best its just going to be a few boards more than the cyclone a few less than the Optimus at worst its going to look just about the same as the others. I really suggest at this point working to expand your lines and worry less about your arsenal until you really figure out I need this and why. Never buy a ball unless you can honestly say I don't have something that will do this on this condition and this is why I need to do it. Otherwise it just becomes an expensive addiction looking for that next ball that will fix whatever problems you have. I would rather have two balls that I understand exactaly how they work on different conditions and can switch to seamlessly than I would six that I don't know and understand as well.

[bobforsaken]

Thanks. I think that is sound advice and normally I wouldn't have even gotten the optimus yet.. My Wife, Son, and I are doing our second "Have a Ball" league. (Bought the Fusion for myself last time) The Bowling center gives us a Spare ball with the league dues OR sells us a Ball at their cost with a $40 Dollar discount. So I got the Optimus for about $80 drilling included. My son doesn't need another ball yet (he's 6) so I'm going to take his ball and apply it towards the most expensive ball I'll want in the future to get the best discount. All three of the balls I have now work great for my comfort zone but if I had to play straighter or in burned out conditions, I'm really stuck. Likewise if I were to play a true heavy oil condition I'd be stuck. I may not run into that condition for another couple of years after lots of practice, but I won't be buying any bowling balls between now an then. (At least I don't think so.. Maybe I'll do another Ball League in the summer... :) )


I agree I need to expand my skills, but I'm trying to understand what I may need in the future, before I'm ready to actually take advantage of it, if that makes sense.

[Amyers]

I understand and couldn't pass on a Optimus at that price either. Remember you can always adjust your surface you could add a little surface to the fusion and it will work in heavier conditions also and your Optimus will handle quite a bit of oil also. As a speed dominate guy I can't really see you needing anything lighter than the cyclone I'm more rev dominate than you and I can play my Seismic Euphoria on some pretty dry conditions and I think its stronger than the Cyclone. I think with your current lineup I would look at a heavier oil solid if I had to add another ball. The new Crux, Zero Gravity, Marvel-S would all be ones I would consider if you want to stay with Storm.

[RobLV1]

Let me give you a quick rundown on what makes balls do what they do. There are four elements that contribute to how a ball reacts: the core, the layout, the cover material, and the surface. All balls hook the same amount in terms of the angle of direction change, but some hook earlier and some hook later. In terms of the core, there are three key factors; symmetry, the low rg (radius of gyration), and the differential (the difference between the low rg and the high rg). The lower the rg measurement is (it's actually a measurement in inches), the sooner the ball is designed to roll. Right now, you have two very early rolling balls in terms of rg, the Optimus at 2.48, and the Fusion at 2.49. The differential in the Optimus is quite high, while the differential in the Fusion is quite low. This would make a big difference to a high rev player, but not too much to the rest of us. The Cyclone is in the mid-range in terms of rg at 2.53. The second element, the layout, does nothing other than to change the actual rg and differential numbers, by positioning the core within the ball. Ball drillers want you to believe that there is something magic about layouts. There isn't. The third element is the cover material. There are three types of cover materials solids, pearls, and hybrids (a combination of solid and pearl materials). Your Optimus is a pearl, and your Fusion is a hybrid. You don't indicate which Cyclone you have, so I don't know the specific material. It's difficult to determine the actual aggressiveness of cover materials, but usually price point is a good place to start. Both the Optimus and the Fusion are from Storm's highest priced line of symmetrically cored balls. This would be an indication that both covers are pretty aggressive. The Cyclone is from Ebonite's lowest priced line of reactive balls that would indicate that it has a less aggressive cover material. The one factor that can be readily changed is the surface, but you need to make surface changes to compliment the other elements in the bowling ball. For this reason, adding more surface to the Cyclone which is the least aggressive ball you have in terms of both core and cover material makes no sense. It's kind of like trying to put snow tires on a race car; it just doesn't work. I would suggest making your next ball a solid in the mid/high rg range. I think that the Storm Zero Gravity would be a good choice for you. It will give you good length, and the strong cover and asymmetrical core will give you a different look in terms of motion down the lane.

[bobforsaken]

Thanks.. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. I think going heavy oil solid is what I'll do after a month or so of experimenting with my current lineup (if it still makes sense at that time). I may also resurface the Fusion to original OOB (its been about 150 games) so I can get a better understanding of the relation to the Optimus.. Then decide on resurfacing the Fusion to 2000 if there is a big gap between the future Heavy oil solid and Optimus. Also I'll polish up the Cyclone and see what that gives me.

As you said, in a 3 game set I'm not likely to really "NEED" a ball change. I normally get away with one or two 2 and 1 adjustments left as the games roll on. The league I'm doing (adult/youth) also has a lot of plastic balls being used so my challenges may be unique and I may need to make my judgments of appropriate ball changes after long practice sessions, more than during league play due to the unusual amount of carry down.

[bobforsaken]

Let me give you a quick rundown on what makes balls do what they do. There are four elements that contribute to how a ball reacts: the core, the layout, the cover material, and the surface. All balls hook the same amount in terms of the angle of direction change, but some hook earlier and some hook later. In terms of the core, there are three key factors; symmetry, the low rg (radius of gyration), and the differential (the difference between the low rg and the high rg). The lower the rg measurement is (it's actually a measurement in inches), the sooner the ball is designed to roll. Right now, you have two very early rolling balls in terms of rg, the Optimus at 2.48, and the Fusion at 2.49. The differential in the Optimus is quite high, while the differential in the Fusion is quite low. This would make a big difference to a high rev player, but not too much to the rest of us. The Cyclone is in the mid-range in terms of rg at 2.53. The second element, the layout, does nothing other than to change the actual rg and differential numbers, by positioning the core within the ball. Ball drillers want you to believe that there is something magic about layouts. There isn't. The third element is the cover material. There are three types of cover materials solids, pearls, and hybrids (a combination of solid and pearl materials). Your Optimus is a pearl, and your Fusion is a hybrid. You don't indicate which Cyclone you have, so I don't know the specific material. It's difficult to determine the actual aggressiveness of cover materials, but usually price point is a good place to start. Both the Optimus and the Fusion are from Storm's highest priced line of symmetrically cored balls. This would be an indication that both covers are pretty aggressive. The Cyclone is from Ebonite's lowest priced line of reactive balls that would indicate that it has a less aggressive cover material. The one factor that can be readily changed is the surface, but you need to make surface changes to compliment the other elements in the bowling ball. For this reason, adding more surface to the Cyclone which is the least aggressive ball you have in terms of both core and cover material makes no sense. It's kind of like trying to put snow tires on a race car; it just doesn't work. I would suggest making your next ball a solid in the mid/high rg range. I think that the Storm Zero Gravity would be a good choice for you. It will give you good length, and the strong cover and asymmetrical core will give you a different look in terms of motion down the lane.

Thank you, Rob.. Excellent read! To answer your question, I think the Cyclone I have is 4000 Grit with "powerhouse" finish (whatever that means). I had a coach watch me throw the Cyclone and Fusion a few weeks ago, and he said there isn't much difference in how the balls are reacting which lead me to think taking the Cyclone and polishing may make it fill that dryer condition role I originally intended for it. I should state that I have about 150 games on each of those balls (I've practiced a ton over the last 3-4 Months) so Factory OOB finish may not be what I actually have anymore. The Fusion and Cyclone are both duller than OOB I'm sure. (BTW, I play on wood lanes)

I'm inclined to go with the Zero Gravity or Crux in a Month or two, but will wait and learn what I can between now and then.

Thanks!

[Joker]

just to get something clear for myself.. i kept reading you wanted a ball for the dry area? What exactly do you mean for the dry area? You're playing in the track area which to mean says that you're going to be moving throughout the games (however many you may be bowling) so are you trying to get the cyclone to use in the dried up spot you were bowling on so you don't have to move or is your house sometimes dry and sometimes oily?

[RobLV1]

Keep in mind that he stated that he is bowling on wooden lanes, and that makes a ton of difference. One of the things that makes modern reactive balls so reactive is the fact that the materials from which they are made and the materials from which synthetic lanes are made are not that much different. I remember reading somewhere when reactive balls were first introduced about a bond that is formed between the surface of the ball and the synthetic lane material as the ball rolls down the lane. Don't quote me on that, but it makes sense to me. If this is in fact the case, then the reactions that you would get from different bowling balls on a wooden lane surface would be much more similar than they are on synthetics.

[bobforsaken]

Keep in mind that he stated that he is bowling on wooden lanes, and that makes a ton of difference. One of the things that makes modern reactive balls so reactive is the fact that the materials from which they are made and the materials from which synthetic lanes are made are not that much different. I remember reading somewhere when reactive balls were first introduced about a bond that is formed between the surface of the ball and the synthetic lane material as the ball rolls down the lane. Don't quote me on that, but it makes sense to me. If this is in fact the case, then the reactions that you would get from different bowling balls on a wooden lane surface would be much more similar than they are on synthetics.
That never even occurred to me. I've never played on Synthetic Lanes but that might be why I'm not seeing the same difference in reactions as I thought would be the case in comparing ball reviews (youtube) that compared the fusion and optimus. Other than the reviewers just having more revs than I, it may have been the lane conditions they were reviewing on vs the wood lane house pattern I use.

To answer your question joker.. its more for when I go to the bowling center and get lane that has not been oiled for days and can't seem to find a line to the pocket because everything wants to hook to the other side of the pin deck. Currently when that happens the only angle I find that kind of works is almost playing straight up the 15 board, and that seems give me trouble with carry. The other role would be a closer for when the lanes get really wrecked from a lot of bowlers and I've moved as deep as I'm comfortable but need to finish out the last half a game. Granted this is theoretical, since I've never actually played long enough with enough bowlers to experience this first hand.

[Aslan]

Is it just me with my lower revs masking the differences in the balls or is this considered normal for the 3 Balls below:

Ebonite Cyclone/Solid GB10.7 Coverstock/2.53RG Diff .053 (Med/Light Oil)

IQ Tour Fusion/R2S Hybrid Coverstock/ 2.49RG Diff .029 (Med/Heavy Oil)

Optimus/ R2X Pearl Coverstock/2.48RG Diff .048 (Med/Heavy Oil)


For a more detailed look at this issue; see my post HERE (http://www.bowlingboards.com/threads/17040-Novel-Concept-Idea-The-Bowling-ball-does-not-matter).

I will be expanding on that with a video, pictures, etc.. I just have put that project on hold while I prepare for Vegas/Laughlin the end of this month. But yes, I found the same thin in the study I did. A lower rev player, throwing ball drilled very differently, all other things equal...will see virtually no difference in reaction.


First of all, your were "hoping to use the Fusion for a benchmark ball and to play the track area of our house shot." Really? Playing the lanes the way you want to play them is like doing things your way instead of the way your wife tells you to... you lose!
Rob- I think what he was trying to accomplish is what I was trying to accomplish when exploring an arsenal. And really, It's kind've the fault of bowling "experts" and the bowling industry as a whole. I heard a LOT of preaching abot "arsenals" and ball changes when I first got into bowling a year ago. Obviously, the manufacturers also push this heavily. Even YOUR position on changing balls has changed a bit hasn't it??

Now....as to where to play a lane, I kinda disagree with you on that. Yes, you want to play the lanes as the lanes dictate. And I've really changed my approach on league night in terms of trying different lines in practice to see if one line works better than another. BUT...BUT...for this guy (it sounds like) and for me...without a power swing or high rev rate...trying to play inside (deep (25-20 boards) or even shallow (20-15 boards) is a dangerous game. And as this fella found (and I found earlier, see the other thread); arsenals don't seem to fix that problem. At the end of the day, getting a ball to hit the dry area and make a sharp turn into the pocket is a function of revs and surface/lane dryness. Belmo, Page, O'Neill, etc.. can loft the left gutter because they have rev rates that are extremely high. So, my point is, getting a new/stronger ball isn't going to allow you to play "true inside". Not with higher speed and lower revs.


I think sometimes with all the marketing we expect more differences in balls than there really are. Some will be earlier than others some will be different shapes on the hook but at the end of the day mostly they are going to end up in the same spot. The ball helps control when it hooks and your entry angle most everything else is how you throw it.
EXACTLY. Thats why most reaction videos are useless garbage. They show a guy reving the ball up to 450-600rpms and then Joe Schmoe goes and buys a new ball and gets washout after washout after washout.


I agree I need to expand my skills, but I'm trying to understand what I may need in the future, before I'm ready to actually take advantage of it, if that makes sense.
Better investment to improve your skills (release, approach, timing, etc...) than to create an arsenal. Especially if you're bowling on wood lanes. I think there is some advantage to an arsenal on varying center conditions and varying sport patterns. But if I only bowled on wood lanes, I'd have 2 bowling balls with me on league night...no real need for more than that. IMO


The differential in the Optimus is quite high, while the differential in the Fusion is quite low. This would make a big difference to a high rev player, but not too much to the rest of us.
Agreed.


That never even occurred to me. I've never played on Synthetic Lanes but that might be why I'm not seeing the same difference in reactions as I thought would be the case in comparing ball reviews (youtube) that compared the fusion and optimus.
Yup.

If you're a low rev, speed dominant player...that plays very well on wood lanes. I know wood lanes vary as do synthetics...but GENERALLY a lower rev, speed dominant game plays better on wood lanes than synthetics. Once or if you go to other centers...you'll see what I mean (I think).

I used to be high loft/speed dominant. It played very well on drier, older, wood conditions. Much of the league I was in used low level balls like Cyclones and Tropical Breezes. Speeds in the 18-24mph range. 10-12ft lofting very common. And it played fine. A lot of miss room to the right...a little miss room to the left. Then I played in a different house for a short league...and went to sweeps in Vegas...and suddenly I realized that to truly be successful I would need to develop a better game...a slower game, a more precise game and a game that is "adaptable" to various conditions.

RIGHT NOW

I have two Encounters drilled and surfaced VERY differently. And the difference in terms of foot position and target is as follows:
(N) = less aggressive/more polish. (A) - more aggressively drilled/500abralon/scuffed with 1000 grit wet/dry paper

"Middle Line"
Encounter (N): Left foot on board 20, target board 11.
Encounter (A): Left foot on board 23, target board 12.

"Outside Line"
Encounter (N): Left foot on board 17.5, target board 8.
Encounter (A): Left foot on board 20, target board 10.

So for a "middle" line, the (A) ball is a net 2 boards difference. On the outside line it's a harder comparison...and this is where you DO see a "differnce" between balls. The (A) ball is 2 boards stronger than the (N) ball playing around 2nd arrow. But when I start to move "outside", the more aggressive ball does not react well. Any shot outside of the 9-board...that ball wants to start moving way too quickly. Where as it's less aggressive counterpart...while being a net -0.5 boards weaker...allows me to go further outside.

So as you can see above, balls DO differ in reaction if you really pay attention. Maybe not as much on wood lanes...definitely not at higher speeds...especially with lower revs. But if I reach down and grab my Encounter (A) by accident and throw it up the 5-8 board...I'll probably know it by about 2/3 down the lane when that ball starts to move...much, much sooner than it's polished, less aggressively drilled counterpart.

Now, disclaimer, the above are just my observations. I'm sharing them because I recently have been researching the exact issue your post deals with AND I have extensive experience bowling on wood lanes...and I have a low rev rate, etc... The "experts" may disagree or have a different take on some of this stuff...the ball manufacturers certainly will disagree because their business success is very reliant on convincing people like yourself that a new ball will get you a better score and/or allow you to play the line Rhino Page plays. And while they "may" be right...I tend to put weight on observation. If a ball manufacturer wants to convince me their ball is super awesome...let me give it to a 140-170 average house bowler on a THS and lets see what the results are.

[bobforsaken]

Thanks Aslan.. I'm heading out to the Bowling center shortly and I'll try some lower speed comparisons on an outside line to see more of the difference. I'll check out your other post in a few. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences!

[bobforsaken]

Interesting observation from my practice tonight. I played long enough on a pair to require some adjustments. I played primarily with the Optimus and for the first time I started leaving lots of 4 Pins. As I understand it, this could be an entry angle issue due to a very angular back end. I switched to the Fusion instead of moving my feet and the 4's went away. So there IS a difference in the ball reactions. But my lower rev rate, lack of consistency etc.. is making it a very subtle difference that probably is less significant than my own inconsistency.

[bobforsaken]

Another observation today in experimenting with increasing revs. Most certainly as I added revs and slowed down my speed I started to see a difference in the Fusion and Optimus today. The Optimus had much more miss room to the right and really made a sharp move to the pocket. The fusion would go high with the same miss to the right and in general the shape was much more of an arc. I didn't really notice this difference with my standard lower rev release. (as a disclaimer.. the Fusion is also no longer oob and has over 150 games on it with no maintenance)