Any thoughts on the Elite line?

[Monte]

I just purchased an Elite Traitor. It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm just wondering what type of ball I purchased. I can only find one reaction video online, and the reaction looks OK, but I don't want to put a "balance hole" in the ball (I just think it looks weird -- personal preference). I'll be throwing on the "house" pattern most of the time.

I did find a thing about their drilling instructions here: http://www.bowlingfiles.com/shop/balls/elite/perf_drill_instructions.shtml

And I'm thinking of going with layout #3. What sort of action can I expect? I would classify myself as a tweener. And I'm left-handed, so the ball would be drilled lefty.

I'm assuming that it's important that the driller knows I'm a lefty. I'm guessing the weight blocks have to be in certain positions.

Anyway, has anyone thrown this particular ball with this layout? What do you like about it? What do you dislike about it?

Thanks again, everyone!

[Blomer]

I've seen many videos or pics of balls that I have that had a balance hole, mine doesn't!
Very important to let the driller know you are a lefty, but they will know that when they measure your hand for the holes, span, etc. he will ask you what you want the ball to do. A good driller will watch you bowl! I don't have your ball, but if you look on bowlingball.com, you should be able to see reviews or videos. Good luck!

[Blomer]

Here's the only video that I saw.
http://www.bowling.com/products/elite-traitor.htm

[larry mc]

http://shop.bowlersparadise.com/elite-traitor-bowling-ball

a guy in my local house kills with this ball

[Monte]

That's definitely the ball. I'm wondering though how "forgiving" it is. I know some balls you can miss your spot by a few boards, and the ball is forgiving enough that the break point changes down lane and you either wind up with more hook or less hook into the pocket. I've heard that the Black Widow Legend is like this.

I want to make sure that I can get a ball, and get it drilled properly, so that I can work toward my first 300 game.

[Blomer]

I know the black wido legend is a great ball. Seen many of the thrown and WOW!
Never heard of your ball or brand, but like Larry said, someone is killing with it at his center. Just have the pro shop guy watch you bowl before he drills it, let him know what you want the ball to do and he'll help you out. Good luck.

[Amyers]

I've never seen anyone throwing any of the elite stuff but I will comment on the balance hole thing. Don't limit yourself I can tell you Mo Pinel who knows more about bowling than most of us combined is a big proponent of using motion and balance holes.

[Monte]

Well, the ball is supposed to arrive today! I'm going to call my local bowling center to see when the Pro Shop guy is going to be in, so I can get it drilled.

[Shaneshu87]

looks like an asymmetric core i cannot find the specs, but remember only you can control how a ball is going to hook, you can drill you ball exactly like the guy in the videos and you may never see you ball do what his does. remember videos are designed to sell and make a ball look desirable, watching pros throw countless strikes in a you tube video, is like watch super models in bikini's eating cheeseburgers on the hood of a pickup. sex sells lol and in bowling the pros bring the sexy. i have never heard of this company either but i do love finding those small time ball manufacturers and rolling their equipment, so this is just another name to add to my list. make sure you have the driller watch you bowl and tell him what you want this ball to do for you and let him make the recommendations, after all he typically knows way more about bowling than us lol

[Monte]

The only drilling specs I've been able to find are these:

http://www.bowlingfiles.com/shop/balls/elite/perf_drill_instructions.shtml

I'm considering drilling #2, but I'm not entirely sold on the balance hole. I'm trying to figure out which would be best for me to use for just open bowling on a standard house shot.

[bowl1820]

The only drilling specs I've been able to find are these:

http://www.bowlingfiles.com/shop/balls/elite/perf_drill_instructions.shtml

I'm considering drilling #2, but I'm not entirely sold on the balance hole. I'm trying to figure out which would be best for me to use for just open bowling on a standard house shot.

The drilling #2 is what use to called stacked leverage, where the pin and CG are placed 3 3/8" from PAP. As for the balance hole, with that layout you quite probably will need one to bring the ball back to with in static weight requirements.

Most will tell you any more not to worry about what the drill sheets layouts show. See the PSO and tell them what your looking for the ball to do And workout the layout from there.


As for Elite ball's they are okay, they are just not in widespread use. Because back when they came out they were basically promoted as being way better than other brands and more for the pros than other balls and were high priced compared to other the brands at one time.

But most felt that other brand balls were just as good and far cheaper, while Elite's were considered very overpriced.

[Monte]

The drilling #2 is what use to called stacked leverage, where the pin and CG are placed 3 3/8" from PAP. As for the balance hole, with that layout you quite probably will need one to bring the ball back to with in static weight requirements.


Interesting. I always thought that "stacked" leverage was like drilling #3 (sans balance hole).



Most will tell you any more not to worry about what the drill sheets layouts show. See the PSO and tell them what your looking for the ball to do And workout the layout from there.


I'd like a pretty big hook. That's why I'd like something similar to #2.



As for Elite ball's they are okay, they are just not in widespread use. Because back when they came out they were basically promoted as being way better than other brands and more for the pros than other balls and were high priced compared to other the brands at one time.


Yeah, I've seen others in their brand "priced" at close to $300 (which is WAY overpriced) and "discounted" down to closer to $200.

I'd originally considered the Black Widow Legend, but I don't bowl quite often enough for that. I'm going to see how things go with the Elite Traitor first, then go from there.



But most felt that other brand balls were just as good and far cheaper, while Elite's were considered very overpriced.

Yeah, I've always thought they were way expensive. But this one was $70. I think it was on clearance, because it looks like Elite doesn't make it/promote it anymore.

[bowl1820]

Interesting. I always thought that "stacked" leverage was like drilling #3 (sans balance hole).

The drilling #2 (3 3/8 from Pin to PAP, and 3 3/8 from CG to Pap) would be considered the classic Stack Leverage layout.

The "Stack" refers to the position of the CG (Center of Gravity) on symmetrical balls being directly under the Pin.
(For today's Asymmetrical balls it would be the MB (Mass Bias).)

The "Leverage" part comes from where the pin is in relation to the PAP (Positive Axis Point).

3 3/8" from Pin to PAP is typically considered the leverage point (This would be on symmetrical balls). The location that provided maximum flare potential.

[Monte]

Very educational. Thank you.

That brings me to another question. I was watching a YouTube video about ball layouts and drilling. The guy mentioned something about a "Preferred Spin Axis" on a ball. In the video, the PSA was noted on the ball with a yellow dot. He put it on a spinner machine (Determinator, I think it was called) and discovered that the PSA was slightly off of where it was marked on the ball.

He made it sound necessary to know where this PSA was, but I can't seem to locate anything like that on my ball. I've already located the pin and CG. The pin was tough to find, because the ball is darkly colored, and the pin is black, instead of some other color.

So is it necessary to know where this PSA is on my ball before I drill it? I'm sure the pro shop guy could figure out where it is, and where the Vertical Axis is, if necessary, I'm just mainly curious if I could find that information out myself.

[bowl1820]

The PSA (Preferred Spin Axis) also known as the Mass Bias (MB) is only marked on balls with a Asymmetrical core.

A symmetrical core ball does not have a PSA before drilling.

The Elite Traitor is a Symmetrical core ball, so doesn't have one marked on it.

On a symmetrical core ball after drilling the PSA is in or near the thumb hole. If a weight hole is added, it will move the PSA some. You would need the Determinator to find the actual location.

The Vertical Axis Line (VAL) is a line perpendicular to the Grip Midline, through the Positive Axis Point.

The VAL is used in various layout systems to help determine back end strength.

Dual Angle Layouts specify an angle between the VAL and a line drawn from the PAP to the Pin, while Storm uses the distance from the pin to the VAL (The Pin Buffer).

Here this diagram shows the different parts of a dual angle layout, you can see the VAL in it.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w89/aloarjr810/misc%20files/layoutexample_cr.jpg