Difficulty adjusting to lane conditions...

[axslinger99]

First, I'm new to bowling and don't know all the correct terminology so I describe my issue the best I can.

I have a short approach and start at the closer set of dots. I stand with my right food on the 2nd dot from the right. I approach straight and aim for the 2nd arrow. I'm a stroker and have low revs but enough to get a decent hook and send it to the pocket.

Tonight I went bowling in the early evening and I'm sure the lanes were burnt up from all of the Sunday bowlers. My usual delivery was going brooklyn side and sometime even further left. If I moved a little to the left to compensate for this, the effect it had was to change the hook to a longer, more gradual/curve and it was missing the pocket too far to the right (I don't know if that's call "high" or "Low"). I tried different positions but I just couldn't adjust. I was trying to figure out the oil might be affecting my shot but came up empty. Nothing I tried worked.

What should I have done differently? Switching balls wasn't an option; I currently only have one ball. Assuming the lanes were fried recreational bowlers, what kind of oil breakdown would I likely encounter?

[Amyers]

How were you moving? Target, feet, or both? And how much did you move? You had the right idea with the move may just not have done it correctly. Most people move left with both 2+1 or 3+1 (2 with feet and 1 with target). I'm a little weird with this usually when I move I go 5+3 and move my break point in about 3 to 4 also (break point is where the ball starts to hook).

Throwing straight down the second arrow is asking for over/under reactions you are right on the line of the oil on most THS patterns. What you experienced sounds like over/under throw it right it's high throw it left is weak. Try moving your feet left and your target right when this happens and sometimes you can balance the reaction out.

[bobforsaken]

I'm new as well so I don't necessarily have the most reliable advice. It took me 2 or 3 months before I started actually watching the break point and it is so very important.
Before I blindly made 2 and 1 moves as AMeyers explained. (Move feet two boards left and eyes (your target) one board left) In theory this 2 and 1 move moves you so that you are throwing the ball in more oil and keeping the same break point.

As you start to watch your ball as it travels to the breakpoint you'll start to notice that the ball is hooking before it gets there.. or maybe skidding past it.

That starts to open up the better understanding of what adjustments you need to make. Its no longer miss left move left. miss right move right. Its more: "Hooked too early... move left to find more oil or increase speed (or ball down when you get another ball)" "Skidded too far... slow down, increase revs, move right into more dry (or go more aggressive ball). When you start going over/Under you may just need to choose a different breakpoint and abandon the 2-1 moves until you find a better line. This can happen when lanes are really burned up.

[axslinger99]

I tend to move about the width of my foot and move my aim point a little less that that. Maybe I should have started with something a little less.

Amyers, I have noticed my ball doing both; hooking before my break point as well as skidding to far and not doing much of anything. I couldn't find that "sweet spot."

[Amyers]

Well that's one of two thing you either didn't find the correct angle as I mentioned earlier moving left with the feet or the ball just may not have fit the condition. One of my local houses puts down a shot that is very wet in the middle and very dry outside ten I mean bone dry outside ten. I can score well with my euphoria there pearl ball that balances it out. if I get it outside a little early with my asylum Even a board outside its Brooklyn at best 2 boards inside it never hooks washout.

There is a art to playing inside also it takes a balance of angles to make your ball react properly and it takes practice. Lay down , target, and breakpoint are critical to understand. The last one was toughest for me and I still have spells that I struggle with it. It's understanding the relashionship of where your ball will start to hook where you want it to hook and how to get it there.

[mc_runner]

Hooking early some shots and skidding through other shots is an over/under reaction, when that happens it's time to change your line because nothing good comes from that! I'm also still trying to keep an eye on my breakpoint. I always just kind of intuitively watched the ball go down the lane and hook... and never really figured out why I couldn't strike more and why my adjustments never worked right. Honestly after joining this site I've discovered so much more in my game and in the game itself. Pretty eye opening.

[fortheloveofbowling]

The move you should make when you encounter a wet dry situation is not make bigger moves with your feet than eyes. That will make it worse more often than not because at any angle that dry spot will still hook and if standing farther left you are getting your self more inside the oil line. You need to determine where the shim (spot at the break point that is just left of that dry area) is and if you have a duller surface ball that is a arching rolly type of ball use that. Tighten up your angle through the fronts, maybe even move a board or 2 right with your feet and Keep your eyes in the same spot and play to the edge of the shim. With the duller ball you won't get as much bounce of the dry as opposed to a shiny ball and the duller ball will tend to roll up a little earlier in the wet. It is very important to determine where that shim is and where you are laying the ball down to stay in the correct area for the entirety of the lane. SHIM TO WIN

[axslinger99]

How does one go about controlling their break point?

[fortheloveofbowling]

I would say mainly speed control for a newer bowler unless you have multiple bowling balls. As you progress with your game there are many options.

[bobforsaken]

I would say mainly speed control for a newer bowler unless you have multiple bowling balls. As you progress with your game there are many options.

So is " controlling the break point" just another way of saying getting your ball to hook at the same distance down the lane? So as your line to the break point drys out and the ball starts to hook too early (Before your break point) you can increase speed... or ball down.. or move into more oil so it skids farther... thus getting your ball to reach the break point before hooking. (opposite true for skidding past the breakpoint.. ie.. decreasing speed.. going to more aggressive ball.. or moving right into more dry)

[fortheloveofbowling]

Basically yes, but it is changing the distance of your break point as well. And as you progress and find you are leaving single pins after hitting the pocket you then will want to figure out correct entry angles associated with your break points. There is a difference between flat and ringing ten pins and reasons why you leave any single pins period. The key though on any condition really is figuring out where you can play and have miss area and hit the pocket, then figure out how to adjust to get the corners out.

[axslinger99]

Ran into this again yesterday; ball was skidding through the pin deck with little or no motion and I already have a slow ball and slow to medium revs (I throw 15 MPH tops). My best guess is it was due to carry-down. Definitely frustrating! When I move further right to get "out of the oil", I was throwing Brooklyn's. My best game was a 166. I did improve over a 3 game set, (135, 145, 166) but it was a struggle the whole time. When I know I'm capable of 190+, that's disappointing.

[RobLV1]

At the risk of starting it up again, Kegel testing has shown that carrydown no longer exists, at least not to the degree that it affects modern reactive balls. I have a hunch that your ball was losing energy from too much friction that was causing it to straighten out, lose energy, and hit like a toasted marshmallow. When the ball stops hooking today, on a modern house shot, using modern bowling balls, the move is in to find more oil to retain the energy and allow the ball to hook later which retains the energy for the pins.

[axslinger99]

At the risk of starting it up again, Kegel testing has shown that carrydown no longer exists, at least not to the degree that it affects modern reactive balls. I have a hunch that your ball was losing energy from too much friction that was causing it to straighten out, lose energy, and hit like a toasted marshmallow. When the ball stops hooking today, on a modern house shot, using modern bowling balls, the move is in to find more oil to retain the energy and allow the ball to hook later which retains the energy for the pins.

Duly noted. I didn't realize that carry-down was no longer an issue. But, you're right, the ball was hitting like a "toasted marshmallow." Perhaps not even toasted. ;) No pin action at all. I have a hunch I'm going to be seeing this situation a lot and I need to come up with a strategy. I only have one ball to work with at this point.

[Sourtower]

I've been recreationally bowling for years, but not until February of this year did I start taking it more seriously (big mistake on my part). All this information has helped tremendously. I still find myself struggling at times. For instance, 2 weeks ago in league I bowled a 594 series, and then last week I bowled a 432 series. I feel like as I learn to look for subtle things and adjust ahead of time, I'll eventually be better off. But for now, I plan on reading through these threads and asking questions whenever I don't understand.

[Mike White]

At the risk of starting it up again, Kegel testing has shown that carrydown no longer exists, at least not to the degree that it affects modern reactive balls. I have a hunch that your ball was losing energy from too much friction that was causing it to straighten out, lose energy, and hit like a toasted marshmallow. When the ball stops hooking today, on a modern house shot, using modern bowling balls, the move is in to find more oil to retain the energy and allow the ball to hook later which retains the energy for the pins.

Kegels testing is either flawed, or based on a specific condition they didn't publish, or you neglected to consider.

If everyone is using modern equipment, and that equipment is maintained, then carry down is insignificant.

If you bowl after open bowlers who use house balls, there will be significant amount of oil transferred down past the end of the pattern.

If a modern ball has become "oil logged" it will also transfer oil past the end of the pattern.

Personally, I've thrown a modern ball (well maintained) on a fresh condition, then inspected the lane past the end of the pattern.

There was an obvious streak of oil about 3 inches long, then a gap of about 2 feet, then another streak of about 3 inches. Repeating approximately 5 times that I could see.

After just one shot there was clearly carry down, on a THS condition.

[axslinger99]

This would make sense since I typically bowl after a lot of open bowlers using house balls.

[RobLV1]

If you are following open bowlers, than the oil has already moved down the lane, and it is simply the pattern on which you are starting. As to the infamous streaks of oil, Kegels testing acknowledges the streaks. The issue is that the streaks are between 3 and 5 units of oil, and modern reactive balls don't react to anything less than 8 units. So, for all intents and purposes, carrydown no longer exists. When the ball suddenly quits hooking on your line, it is burned up and losing energy, not encountering carrydown.

[MICHAEL]

If you are following open bowlers, than the oil has already moved down the lane, and it is simply the pattern on which you are starting. As to the infamous streaks of oil, Kegels testing acknowledges the streaks. The issue is that the streaks are between 3 and 5 units of oil, and modern reactive balls don't react to anything less than 8 units. So, for all intents and purposes, carrydown no longer exists. When the ball suddenly quits hooking on your line, it is burned up and losing energy, not encountering carrydown.


Question about carry down: Does a Highly polished pearl type of MODERN ball carry the oil down? I know from my own experience that the Solid balls, like my new Hyper Cell are like a sponge, and when I clean them on my spinner after bowling the rags pull a lot of lane oil out of the balls.

But my Pearl, polished balls show MUCH LESS lane oil! Is it pushing more oil down the lane, then the matte balls.... I would think so!?


I think this SAVING ENERGY THING is the hardest thing for me to understand.

Why to do many bowlers throw at the beginning of league down 10 line or even 5, on house oil? Aren't they doing their ball a disservice causing it to lose energy throwing it in the lightest oil? And why do they wind up moving left, when the oil starts to get used up?

Most move because the ball gets TOO reactive, and starts going high on head pin. If the ball is losing energy, why the need to move left for a right handed bowler.

My experience has been when I move more into the oil, my ball seems to go flat into the pocket? When I am in the used section of the lane its almost like a hockey stick move to pocket, looks like it has LOTS OF ENERGY?

This whole thing about staying in the oil is something I need to explore more!

[foreverincamo]

Michael, I am learning all of this too. It can be frustrating. The weight blocks in these balls are more like an engine. As the ball rotates and goes down the lane, the ball flares and the core rights itself to the point where it turns the ball the direction intended, left or right. When you hit the dry part of the lane, this makes this happen earlier than with the ball being in oil.
The difference in coverstocks causes the ball to react earlier or later as well. If you hit drier areas earlier the ball reacts sooner, hooks too early, and runs out of energy as it hits the pins. So by keeping the ball in the oil by moving left, you allow the ball to do its thing later and retain its energy.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Carry down: Not to argue with anyone but in my opinion it does exist sometimes If you are on a higher volume pattern with clean backends or bowling with someone using urethane or something pushing oil around. Especially if you are bowling with experienced bowlers that tend to make consistent shots and multiple are playing the same spot down lane. I'm guessing when i have heard top level players talk about carry down they might know what they are talking about. You experience that a lot less in leagues and lower volume house shots.

Playing outside: Differing outlooks depending on the bowler and experience. Some simply have that comfort zone. Some have limited revs on their ball and need that extra entry angle to carry. Some like the fact that they can stay in just enough of oil to get the ball down the lane and burn up a little so the ball doesn't jump harder of the end of the pattern. If you have enough guys playing the pattern correctly starting at the right point when moving left and employing the correct angle through the front part of the lane you can create your own bumper. Watching qualifying during pba tournaments you can see guys just walling them up by playing the lanes correctly and creating area. Learning those things is just a matter of stopping and thinking why is my ball doing that and why is the lane doing that.

Hockey stick and flat motion: Hockey stick motion is great when you have the right ball, speed, angle, break point, revolutions, etc. Because of all that i personally try to avoid that reaction. Because if you are not right with your combinations you are just asking for x 2-10 x big four x. Sure you can get some big games but you will not be consistent with that reaction. Very few pro bowlers ever look for that reaction even when swing the ball. If you what closely you will see that there ball is picking up earlier to avoid that snap. If you are leaving flat 10's you can work with that. The ball is just in the oil to long and not getting into a roll early enough. Maybe lower your speed a little or try to find a little added friction to the right. Not by standing in the same spot but moving a LITTLE right with your feet and maybe less with your eyes so to adjust your lay down and angle through the fronts.

Now some or none these ramblings may work for anyone. The thing is you have to watch and think and try to understand what is happening during your bowling. Bowling can be very hard if you don't listen to your ball and the lane and don't learn what the guy bowling well next to you has heard. That may be stupid but my wife thinks i am starting to be hard of hearing.

[RobLV1]

Carry down: Not to argue with anyone but in my opinion it does exist sometimes If you are on a higher volume pattern with clean backends or bowling with someone using urethane or something pushing oil around. Especially if you are bowling with experienced bowlers that tend to make consistent shots and multiple are playing the same spot down lane. I'm guessing when i have heard top level players talk about carry down they might know what they are talking about. You experience that a lot less in leagues and lower volume house shots.

Playing outside: Differing outlooks depending on the bowler and experience. Some simply have that comfort zone. Some have limited revs on their ball and need that extra entry angle to carry. Some like the fact that they can stay in just enough of oil to get the ball down the lane and burn up a little so the ball doesn't jump harder of the end of the pattern. If you have enough guys playing the pattern correctly starting at the right point when moving left and employing the correct angle through the front part of the lane you can create your own bumper. Watching qualifying during pba tournaments you can see guys just walling them up by playing the lanes correctly and creating area. Learning those things is just a matter of stopping and thinking why is my ball doing that and why is the lane doing that.

Hockey stick and flat motion: Hockey stick motion is great when you have the right ball, speed, angle, break point, revolutions, etc. Because of all that i personally try to avoid that reaction. Because if you are not right with your combinations you are just asking for x 2-10 x big four x. Sure you can get some big games but you will not be consistent with that reaction. Very few pro bowlers ever look for that reaction even when swing the ball. If you what closely you will see that there ball is picking up earlier to avoid that snap. If you are leaving flat 10's you can work with that. The ball is just in the oil to long and not getting into a roll early enough. Maybe lower your speed a little or try to find a little added friction to the right. Not by standing in the same spot but moving a LITTLE right with your feet and maybe less with your eyes so to adjust your lay down and angle through the fronts.

Now some or none these ramblings may work for anyone. The thing is you have to watch and think and try to understand what is happening during your bowling. Bowling can be very hard if you don't listen to your ball and the lane and don't learn what the guy bowling well next to you has heard. That may be stupid but my wife thinks i am starting to be hard of hearing.

You make some very good points. Please permit me to address a couple of them. Two points that you make actually relate to each other. Yes, urethane and plastice balls do create carrydown, however, it is those players who are only comfortable playing way outside in very little oil resort to using them. As to heavier oil patterns, I can tell you that I attended one of the TV tapings at the WSOB last year using the blue oil. As a member of the press, I was able to see the lanes close up after the previous taping and practice between the two shows. The temporary lanes were raised approximately 2 1/2 feet off the floor, and I was able to view the end of the pattern from right next to them. The only streaks coming off of the end of the pattern were directed at the right corner, created by plastic spare balls used to pick up ten and six pins. As to statements about carrydown coming from top level players, I was first advised of its demise about three years ago by Robert Smith. At his suggestions, I began to research Kegel testing on the subject. I suggest that you do the same. It's really hard to let go of a belief that we've all carried around with us for years, but it really is a benefit to your bowling.

[axslinger]

Still struggling with this. I move left a board or two and end up throwing the ball over the edge and cleaning out the gutter. I just have an issue with a sharp angle; i.e. standing left and throwing at a target that is to the right. It just doesn't seem natural; it's like I'm reaching way right trying to hit my target. It's hard to explain but when I have to move left and shoot right, I end up in the gutter. It just doesn't seem natural.

I was at a center last night and like all centers these days, they're trying to save money. Unless there's a league, they only condition 2-3 times a week! They keep the left half of the center with fresh oil for the leagues and the other half they just let em' dry out. I was moving all over the place and couldn't find a position that worked. Very frustrating; going from throwing 180-200+ with a house ball to throwing scores I'm too embarrassed to even mention.

[Amyers]

1. This takes getting used to it's not something your just going to go pick up a ball and do.
2. If your throwing the ball in the gutter you are aiming too far outside with too much angle try throwing from a spot you can roll over the third arrow and not let the ball get farther right than the 8-10 board to start. if your ball is going father right than that area too much angle.
3. If the lanes are very dry in the middle you may not be able to play these lines either if the heads are dry (the ball starts hooking in the first 30-35 feet or so) these lines don't work.

[vdubtx]

Agree with Amyers. If you are moving left and dumping the ball into the gutter, your target is all wrong. When moving left, also move your target left some. If you move 2 boards left with feet, move 2 boards left with target = 2+2 move. Not saying this move will work for you on all conditions, but just as an example.

One thing I have started to do with some success is to shift my focus on a target that is further down lane. I typically had targeted the arrows. Now though, on burned up lanes, my target is at my intended break point about 40 ft down lane. At the same time I do adjust my feet to the left. If I typically target the 3 arrow, my ball when I focus down lane is actually now rolling over 19-20 staying in some more oil to push through the heads to get to the target.

[RobLV1]

The other thing that you need to watch when you are moving left is the direction of your feet. If you start at 20 (with your left foot), and slide into 20. When you are standing 30, you need to slide into thirty. If you start at 30 and slide into 20 (or 25 for that matter), you have changed your angle to such a degree that it's easy to dump the ball into the gutter. This is the single most difficult thing for track players to master. When you are moving left, and walking straight, simply open your hips and shoulders to project the ball to the right.

[Mike White]

You make some very good points. Please permit me to address a couple of them. Two points that you make actually relate to each other. Yes, urethane and plastice balls do create carrydown, however, it is those players who are only comfortable playing way outside in very little oil resort to using them. As to heavier oil patterns, I can tell you that I attended one of the TV tapings at the WSOB last year using the blue oil. As a member of the press, I was able to see the lanes close up after the previous taping and practice between the two shows. The temporary lanes were raised approximately 2 1/2 feet off the floor, and I was able to view the end of the pattern from right next to them. The only streaks coming off of the end of the pattern were directed at the right corner, created by plastic spare balls used to pick up ten and six pins. As to statements about carrydown coming from top level players, I was first advised of its demise about three years ago by Robert Smith. At his suggestions, I began to research Kegel testing on the subject. I suggest that you do the same. It's really hard to let go of a belief that we've all carried around with us for years, but it really is a benefit to your bowling.

It's even harder to let it go when I can walk down to the end of the pattern after a league, and see a large quantity of carry down.

[RobLV1]

It's from the plastic and urethane balls that your rev rate forces you to use, Mike. LOL!

[Mike White]

It's from the plastic and urethane balls that your rev rate forces you to use, Mike. LOL!

While that sounds good, I am referring to lanes I didn't bowl on.

My ball tends to streak less oil down the lane because I exit the oil much earlier than most people.

When did you start bowling?

It seems you lack experience of pre-reactive resin bowling.

Did you bowl back when people commonly used rubber balls, on lacquer lanes?

[axslinger]

The other thing that you need to watch when you are moving left is the direction of your feet. If you start at 20 (with your left foot), and slide into 20. When you are standing 30, you need to slide into thirty. If you start at 30 and slide into 20 (or 25 for that matter), you have changed your angle to such a degree that it's easy to dump the ball into the gutter. This is the single most difficult thing for track players to master. When you are moving left, and walking straight, simply open your hips and shoulders to project the ball to the right.

I believe this is precisely the problem; it's difficult to to have a target to the right yet I have to point my shoes straight ahead; it's awkward and doesn't feel natural but like you said, if I point my toes toward the target, it's going in the gutter. This would be like a baseball pitcher doing his normal wind up but instead throws to third...but isn't allowed to move his feet! Exaggerated, yes but that's the awkwardness of it.

[rico]

Yes, true....the oil pattern initially establishes a break point and then the chose ball and the consistency of ball speed by the bowler influence the break point....in the old days with lesser aggressive bowling balls, the breakpoint never really changed much and all that was required were angle adjustments and slight release or speed adjustments....not today....today the ball influences the break point as does the amount of power (rev rate) the bowler applies to the ball coupled with the oil pattern.

The oil pattern distance and cross lane oil ratios of application determine the initial break point....there are more adjustment options needed today than in the past....check out some of the articles in BowlVersity about lane adjustments, etc...

[bobforsaken]

Still struggling with this. I move left a board or two and end up throwing the ball over the edge and cleaning out the gutter. I just have an issue with a sharp angle; i.e. standing left and throwing at a target that is to the right. It just doesn't seem natural; it's like I'm reaching way right trying to hit my target. It's hard to explain but when I have to move left and shoot right, I end up in the gutter. It just doesn't seem natural.

I was at a center last night and like all centers these days, they're trying to save money. Unless there's a league, they only condition 2-3 times a week! They keep the left half of the center with fresh oil for the leagues and the other half they just let em' dry out. I was moving all over the place and couldn't find a position that worked. Very frustrating; going from throwing 180-200+ with a house ball to throwing scores I'm too embarrassed to even mention.

AND: Ran into this again yesterday; ball was skidding through the pin deck with little or no motion and I already have a slow ball and slow to medium revs (I throw 15 MPH tops). My best guess is it was due to carry-down. Definitely frustrating! When I move further right to get "out of the oil", I was throwing Brooklyn's. My best game was a 166. I did improve over a 3 game set, (135, 145, 166) but it was a struggle the whole time. When I know I'm capable of 190+, that's disappointing.


I've been bowling a short while and this sounds so familiar to me. "Skidding through the pin deck" to me sounds like my issue with speed dominance that I've fought with. Keep in mind that speed dominant doesn't mean you throw fireballs. My speed is around 15mph too. It just means that the Rev Rate isn't high enough to create the friction at that speed needed to have the ball go through all 3 phases. If I had to guess you are hitting the pin deck at the Skid or Hook Phase and not during the roll phase. If you were indeed burning up or rolling out, you would notice the reaction, but your pin carry would be poor. If you are going through the same thing as me, you would experience a ton of 5 or 5-10 leaves on pocket hits. You would also be struggling when the lanes are more freshly oiled and post those nice 190 scores when the lanes are dryer. That is precisely why I needed stronger more aggressive equipment than what the lane conditions would require for most.

I've made a huge improvement over the last two months by increasing my rev rate by cupping my wrist. I was using a wrist support device to force my wrist straight and keep it from breaking, but it wasn't enough. On fresh conditions I had to play up the first arrow (standing about 10 and throwing 5) but this was giving me the look of a straight ball and I only had marginal success. The precision needed was (and is) above my ability at this point. If I played 2nd arrow (standing about 20) I would hit light or not make it back to the pocket.. Once my wrist was strong enough that I could cup the ball I finally got out of that rut. Now Dryer conditions are my nemesis, when it used to be the times I posted good scores.. But with dryer conditions I can move left and find more oil.

I don't have the problem with throwing in the gutter when moving deeper but I also don't walk straight to the foul line. (i'm not that good). I focus on the breakpoint I want to use and walk towards that. It works for me and it keeps it simple. I'm not saying you should do this, but it works for me for now. Next time I work with a coach I'll work on walking my lines better.