The benefits of professional help

[DLP]

Take one 110 avg bowler + a Brunswick Bowling Mini Camp
Add a new grip done by Chuck Gardner + a new brace + a whole lot of advice from Parker, Sean, and Chuck....

=

First 500 series in practice yesterday
For someone who has had problems lately getting into the 120s, dropping a 186/146/182 was a shock.

If you ever get the chance to attend one of the camps, DO IT! Just go. There are just SO many things to learn combined with a fun and nonjudgmental environment.

And yes, mental game is part of it :)

[Aslan]

The downside to that advice is that it costs thousands of dollars.

Not saying I wouldn't love to attend one…but why not just pay $100/month in lessons? You end up with more instructional time, 1 on 1 time, and it ends up being about the same cost.

The other thing that kinda annoys me about clinics is sometimes you get different advice from different people, and that can be confusing. You didn't have any of that going on at your camp? curious

[J Anderson]

The downside to that advice is that it costs thousands of dollars.

Not saying I wouldn't love to attend one…but why not just pay $100/month in lessons? You end up with more instructional time, 1 on 1 time, and it ends up being about the same cost.

The other thing that kinda annoys me about clinics is sometimes you get different advice from different people, and that can be confusing. You didn't have any of that going on at your camp? curious

I don't think the mini-camps, which are a one day affair, cost thousands of dollars. I suppose if you looked at their schedule and went to Hawaii it might, but not if you go to one close to home.

[DLP]

Nope, the mini camps don't cost thousands, but J - if I hit the lottery, I like your plan :D
Could I have spent the money elsewhere as far as my bowling is concerned? Probably.
Would I have gotten near the same level of benefit? Probably not.

[striker12]

DLP you should find one of the Bowl U/Brad Angelo bowling camps you get to use some training tools that work great and you can buy them online but if you want here's the site to them for you to check the training tools out, I plan on getting the (MOK ORB, KILK PIN and OZ BLOCK)


http://www.eileensbowlingbuddy.com/

[bowl1820]

Cost depends on just what camp it is, but not thousands of dollars.

A 3 day "Brunswick Bowling Mini Camp" can cost about $1000. But you get 3 balls, shirts, video taping, lunch etc. with it.

A 1 day "Brunswick Bowling Mini Camp" they had here florida a while back was $300 you got choice of a ball, lunch etc.

[Aslan]

Cost depends on just what camp it is, but not thousands of dollars.

A 3 day "Brunswick Bowling Mini Camp" can cost about $1000. But you get 3 balls, shirts, video taping, lunch etc. with it.

A 1 day "Brunswick Bowling Mini Camp" they had here florida a while back was $300 you got choice of a ball, lunch etc.

Yeah. I was just going off the two camps I wanted to go to. Camp Bakkes was $1150 and the Brunswick FULL camp was $1198. The Kegel camp was only $675-$799 + lodging. But I figured why do that "camp" when I could spend $550 for a full day personal/private lesson at Kegel?

Again, I'm not "poo pooing" camps or DLP's positive experience. I think it's great! I just wonder (and am asking) what people's thoughts are on a camp versus 3-12 months of private lessons. For ME...I'd just be worried that I'd go to a camp, learn some stuff, then after 2-3 months of practicing I'd run into some other roadblock and not have the opportunity to go BACK to that person I learned it from and get more guidance. BUT...playing Devil's Advocate....if you're in an area where finding a good coach is difficult...a camp or clinic might be the best you can do. I'm lucky being in California...others are lucky if they are in Texas or Nevada. It might be harder to find a high level coach elsewhere.

[axslinger]

Just some food for thought...

I play guitar and used to take lessons. My teacher had a philosophy; you only need "X" number of lessons. At that point I have told you everything you need to know. From there, it's up to you to apply it and practice it.

The same holds true for bowling. A good coach could watch you throw 3-5 balls and recognized every mistake you are making and tell you what you need to do to correct it. From there, it's up to you.

When I was having issues getting a ball fitted I struggled desperately to get a 160. I was more in the range of 140-150 but knew I was capable of much better. I had thrown a 224 game as well as a number of 180-190 games. The guy from the pro shop came out to observe me. Focusing only on my swing and release he told me what he was seeing. They were things that I didn't even realize I was doing. With him standing there watching me, I threw a 203. I had 6 strikes in a row and believe I only had 1 open frame.

My point is, an $80/hr. lesson can go a LONG way! In my case, he wasn't even a coach; he just worked in the pro shop and happens to carry a 210 average. So now, whenever I'm having issues, I go back to that lesson and recall what he told me and what he was noticing about me. I had issues this past weekend, struggling to hit 180. I even threw a 135 and a 145. The lanes were great; fresh oil and in good shape. I knew it was all me. I relaxed and went back to what he told me and I threw a 203!

Just some food for thought. The trick is, get a good coach and 'Do what he say!'

[rico]

Any organized coaching program with reputable instructor(s) can be of value....researching for clinics, schools, one day programs, and individual lessons is a wise thing to do before making a decision which way to go....the points made in these reply comments are good ones and make sense....it is up to each bowler to decide whether their budget, personality, and physical and mental game needs is best served by private or group programs...one thing is for sure, if your game suffers and you need help, experienced coaches can and will benefit you if you give it a try....it is surprising how many bowlers know they need help but never work with an instructor - always look for fast and free tips and listen to too many local bowlers offering opinions and advice....most of the top pros have coaches so why shouldn't we?

[rico]

Forgot to mention earlier that there are some cool articles for free at this site:

http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/

Thanks

[striker12]

forgot to mention the price that the Bowl U/Brad Angelo camp was it costs $250 USD or $275 CAD its a 2 day event of 7 hrs a day and very good training.

when it was here in Canada we did each day.

2 1//2: hr outdoor skill development

1 hr: lunch and hot topics

3 hr: indoor discussion and on lane workshop

1/2 hr: wrap up and giveaways

on day 2 we did not do that long outside we stayed outside for maby 1 hour because it was a lot hotter out on day 2 and everyone else was burnt but me I only got a tan lol, but we did the extra 1 1/2 that we had left from the outdoor on talking about sport patterns and oil transition and about a lot more.

but I can say this the outdoor skill development is fun we got to throw pins to learn the explosion point of your release and then we got to use the (eileens bowling buddys) training tools, had a fun time there was 1 game with the FOL BALL where we had to hit a disk in the middle of everyone and we had to count you get a partner for it.

but there was where activitys if you go threw the general bowling discussion forums and look for the thread brad angelo bowling camp, I posted every night when I got back to the hotel everything we did those days and a lot of information that we wrote down from day 2 when we did not say outside that long.

[Aslan]

Forgot to mention earlier that there are some cool articles for free at this site:

http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/

Thanks

Aw jeez...delete that before Hammer sees it. Don;t get him started on BowlVersity!


2 1//2: hr outdoor skill development

Good for when you bowl in the outdoor bowling centers. Also good if the clinic is being put on by homeless people. This was a "youth camp" right?


I play guitar and used to take lessons. My teacher had a philosophy; you only need "X" number of lessons. At that point I have told you everything you need to know. From there, it's up to you to apply it and practice it.

The same holds true for bowling. A good coach could watch you throw 3-5 balls and recognized every mistake you are making and tell you what you need to do to correct it. From there, it's up to you.


I would disagree with this....almost entirely.

If you take a bowling lesson (WAY different than a guitar lesson...and yes I've taken years of music lessons)...your coach, if good, is watching for any number of various issues. If they know what they are doing, they are going to work on maybe 2-3 things at a time. Not all 43 at once.

When I got a lesson from RobM...he gave me 9 things to work on over the next 5 months. He specifically said 2-3 times...that normally he would NOT give me that many things to work on at once...but since I wasn't going to be back in Vegas for many months...he made an exception. My current coach gave me 4 things to work on over the course of 3 weeks...and after seeing how "in my own head" I can be...after the 3rd lesson reduced it to a maximum of 2 per 3 weeks. I can guarantee that these coaches could find 40 things I need to work on. No problem. But working on THAT many things at once...idiotic idea. Take it from an idiot that has tried.

The advantage to having regular coaching is you may struggle with something. And if you do, and probably will, you need to go back and work on that again or MAYBE....the coach takes a different path. For example, I had trouble staying low on my release...so the coach wanted me to keep the side of my slide foot on the lane (to keep me from rising up). But I had to "sweep" it and not "kick" it. I tried that for 3 weeks and found that as I was focusing on "sweeping", I wasn't squaring my shoulders and was dropping the ball right. So instead of continue down that path...the coach changed the approach to focus more on being a bit higher...but not "bobbing" up and down....staying level. Still trying to get low...but not making it such a priority that it messed up my release. Then we started focusing on timing instead of staying low.

Coaches can see where you've made progress and where you haven't as well as what bad habits you're developing. Anyone can give you 2-3 pointers...the higher level coaches can modify their pointers to make your game better. Thats how I know a good coach from a bad. A bad coach will say, "Okay...here's how I bowl. Do THIS and you'll be a better a bowler. The End." A GOOD coach will figure out how YOU bowl...then systematically "adjust" YOUR game to maximize it. That takes time.

Chris Barnes gets lessons. I often wonder what a coach tells Chris Barnes since most coaches tell students to "watch how Chris Barnes does it".

Sidenote....you being a guitar expert...

My old list of Top 5 Guitarists ALL-TIME was:

1) Eric Johnson
2) Randy Rhoads
3) Zach Wylde
4) Ted Nugent
5) Slash

However, I was recently thinking of revising it to:

1) Roy Clark
2) Eric Johnson
3) Rany Rhoads
4) Zach Wylde
5) Ted Nugent

However....I saw a list of "Top 30 Guitarists Ever" and it didn't even LIST Rhoads, Johnson, Wylde, Nugent, OR Clark!! Sure, it had some guys that would be in my top 10 like Slash (my #6), Les Paul (my # 8), Eddie Van Halen (my #9), and Santana (my #10). But I don't see how in the WORLD you can put a top 30 list together and not have Rhoades, Clark, or Johnson on it. Thats absurd!

[striker12]

aslan the camp was for anyone they did the outdoors for more room and to also use the sun on 1 of the training methods, this one was put a rope down but have the sun to your bad and do your bowling throw and balance, never let your shadow go over the line other then your arm its a good thing worked well for me, just cant do it at my down house, im surrounded by trees.

other things with the outdoor that is great is with my MOK orbs and KILK pins you watch your shadow and have a smooth swing you will notice if you are muscling them at all they will bend a bit, with these also help with balance, the other thing you watch your shadow for is when you swing the MOK orb or KILK pin out in front of you, you have 1 in each hand and they should both hit the same spot every time.

go onto the side I posted earlier elieens bowling buddys and go to the products they got videos of them check the out.

[MICHAEL]

The downside to that advice is that it costs thousands of dollars.

Not saying I wouldn't love to attend one…but why not just pay $100/month in lessons? You end up with more instructional time, 1 on 1 time, and it ends up being about the same cost.

The other thing that kinda annoys me about clinics is sometimes you get different advice from different people, and that can be confusing. You didn't have any of that going on at your camp? curious

Nothing Replaces THE GIFT!! NOTHING!! No amount of lessons, or even lesions!!! LOL Find that inner gift that is hiding somewhere in that wordy body/mind of yours and then use it grasshopper!

[J Anderson]

Nothing Replaces THE GIFT!! NOTHING!! No amount of lessons, or even lesions!!! LOL Find that inner gift that is hiding somewhere in that wordy body/mind of yours and then use it grasshopper!

A good coach might be able to help Aslan find that "inner gift".

[MICHAEL]

A good coach might be able to help Aslan find that "inner gift".

He has already had more coaches then there are grains of sand on the pacific coast!! He must find that GIFT HIMSELF!

[RobLV1]

Michael: You really need to stop this "gift" stuff. Everyone has a certain amount of talent (gift). A trained coach helps bowlers to tap the amount of talent they have. You have the talent. You have not been coached. I have little talent. I have been coached. I beat you, head to head. Aslan may, or may not have your talent, but if he nurtures it, and gets help developing it, he, too will beat you head to head, guaranteed!

[Aslan]

I listened to Marshall Kent talk today on XTraFrame and he spelled it out like this:

"Talent" is natural. You're born with it or you're not. "Skill" is how you develop that talent or how you build that talent if you don't naturally have it.

So a person with no natural talent is going to have to work a lot harder to become truly talented. But the difference between guys in tournaments and good house bowlers isn't talent per se…it's that they've developed the skills, like bowling on different sport patterns. Every bowler you see that bowls at the top level in house leagues or shows up for tournaments is "talented". It's their skills that differentiate the best from the rest.

[RobLV1]

Great Post! I went to the WSOB this morning, and Marshall Kent is definately very talented and very skilled at using that talent. He's very impressive!

[fortheloveofbowling]

One of the great things about the xtra frame coverage is the commentary from great bowlers like marshall kent. You really get a lot of insight on how they play the lanes and ball surfaces etc. I think i heard them say today that there was going to be some one doing extra reporting in regards to that during the 2nd round tonight.

[RobLV1]

Wait a minute! Extra Frame? Do you mean Marshall Kent, or Marshall Holman?

[Aslan]

One of the great things about the xtra frame coverage is the commentary from great bowlers like marshall kent. You really get a lot of insight on how they play the lanes and ball surfaces etc. I think i heard them say today that there was going to be some one doing extra reporting in regards to that during the 2nd round tonight.
Yeah, I think Marshall Holman is the guest commentator tonight.


Great Post! I went to the WSOB this morning, and Marshall Kent is definately very talented and very skilled at using that talent. He's very impressive!

I agree. I actually thought about going to watch it this weekend. But yeah, it's cool as a bowler that is still learning and active on the forums to hear these guys essentially commenting on a LOT of the things either I'm struggling with and/or we're talking about here on the forum. Too bad those guys don't stop by from time to time to give us commoners some insight.

I'm kinda bummed about the results of the Cheetah.

WRW, Parker, Mika, Chris, and Missy all missed the cut of 24…yet PDW and Belmo both made it..and Fagan…all of my "not-so-favorite" bowlers. I guess I'll be rooting for Liz Johnson…she bowled VERY well and it'd be nice to see a Cinderella story. I watched her bowl on Bowl.tv in Columbia recently on the female Team USA and while the team did quite well and was quite impressive…she seemed to struggle a bit.

[Aslan]

Wait a minute! Extra Frame? Do you mean Marshall Kent, or Marshall Holman?

Marshall Kent was guest commentator earlier today. He bowled in Squad A and then was sitting with the announcers for squad B.

Marshall Hollman is the guest commentator for tonight's telecast.

[vdubtx]

Mark Baker commenting tonight aswell.

[Aslan]

Mark Baker commenting tonight aswell.

Yeah. He's been on most of the telecasts. With the new video coming out this Thursday, he's doing a lot of salesmanship. I don't mind, he's got some really cool stories.

[RobLV1]

I spent yesterday morning and this morning at the WSOB so that I could see both squads. One thing that I noticed, particularly today, was the scores varied greatly as the lanes changed and from pair to pair. When I left around the end of the fourth game, Chris Barnes was killing them. Now I see that he dropped all the way to 14th for his squad, unlikely to make the cut. The lanes were pretty tough. When's the last time you saw Norm Duke playing left of the 4th arrow?

[fortheloveofbowling]

They must be playing tough today, i noticed a lot of great players at around 200 or below.

[RobLV1]

The player that continues to amaze is PDW. He ended up missing the stepladder by just a few pins, and never had a game below 200 today, ending up in 6th for his squad. He is currently in first place for the World Championship. The man is ageless!

[fortheloveofbowling]

The player that continues to amaze is PDW. He ended up missing the stepladder by just a few pins, and never had a game below 200 today, ending up in 6th for his squad. He is currently in first place for the World Championship. The man is ageless!

Did you notice what balls pdw was using today?

[Aslan]

The player that continues to amaze is PDW. He ended up missing the stepladder by just a few pins, and never had a game below 200 today, ending up in 6th for his squad. He is currently in first place for the World Championship. The man is ageless!

Yeah, PDW through all 3 rounds has been consistently good. As have Dom Barrett and Dick Allen.

One thing I noticed is that alot of the Motiv guys are doing quite well. Obviously most of the top performers are Storm guys because I think Storm probably sponsors 20x as many bowlers as other companies. But a lot of the Motiv guys are doing well even though their poster boy EJ Tackett isn't off to the best start. Meanwhile, Columbia, DV8, Track, Hammer, Ebonite...even Brunswick...are pretty much absent.

Rash is doing well...but missing the cuts for the patterns...kinda like Weber.

Whats really weird is...you'll look at the scores and see 236-235-192-183-197-202-178 and think..."hmm...thats pretty good." Yet that doesn't even make the cut of 24.

But thats tournament bowling. Even the amateur tournaments are like that. 1-5 guys will get really hot at the right time...everyone else will do "okay" but not really have a chance.

And a LOT of lane to lane variation. Like Rob was saying during the AVI Challenge...a lot of these centers will be slightly tilted giving you more hook on one side of the house (uphill) and less hook on the other side (downhill). Thats not just "rumor"....it was mentioned during the commentary as well.

[Aslan]

So far...I have at least one bowler in each of the pattern finals to root for...so I'm happy.

Liz Johnson was the first female to make TWO TV events on the Cheetah and Mika snuck in and made the Viper. Now I just gotta hope somebody out of Squad B can make it into the 24 round for Chamelion...because none of my favorites have made that list out of squad A.

[RobLV1]

Did you notice what balls pdw was using today?

Sorry, no I didn't.

[MICHAEL]

Michael: You really need to stop this "gift" stuff. Everyone has a certain amount of talent (gift). A trained coach helps bowlers to tap the amount of talent they have. You have the talent. You have not been coached. I have little talent. I have been coached. I beat you, head to head. Aslan may, or may not have your talent, but if he nurtures it, and gets help developing it, he, too will beat you head to head, guaranteed!

well lets see,, when you average all the games we bowled that day including the warm up, I had a 210 rob, with no lessons... LOL strange lanes, long ride 1400 miles on a bike with one night rest...

Been throwing nothing but 600 plus games here lately even today a low ones 202,203, and 216 of AMF lanes, but Friday had a 233 warm up game, 242, 246, and final game of 253, I posted the actual sheet, so no sheet!! 741 series..

I don't know if you would be as lucky next time we meet!!!. (DON"T GET A BIG HEAD)
You are even younger then Iceman, and a Silver level Coach! I want another shot at you! fly in to Kansas city, you can stay at my place, and lets
settle once and for all: that would truly be a HEAD to HEAD showdown!

I believe in COACHING, and Rob you are, I am sure a great coach! But your not a miracle worker! YOU KNOW THAT... You have to have a certain amount of gift to work with, DNA given gifts/talent. It has to be there, or no GO!!

I actually think Aslan is just a SHORT time away from jumping to another level. He had a great delivery from what I seen that day.

But for some reason, the ball off his hands looked WEAK? Once he gets that part of his game down, I am sure his scores will go up.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BEAT ICEMAN,,, YOUR wrong there Rob, but maybe good enough to beat Mike White on synthetic, not just wood.

Do I really have to stop the GIFT STUFF, as you put it??? Your coach, you coach! I sell or many times give Gift Certificates to bowlers in need!!

Is giving a Gift to a bowler in need such a bad thing Rob??? Do you even have a heart???

[Aslan]

Sorry Rob…but I think he's right. I've put more money and effort into trying to develop skill than anyone on this site…maybe even VDubtx…and I'm stuck at about 137-155. Tonight…didn't go well.

Then I get to watch the Chemelion Championship tonight and they talk about Dave Wodka and his girlfriend Diana Z….which is REALLY unfair….

But ya know what…as insane as Iceman certainly is…sometimes maybe people just aint good at something. I'm HORRIBLE at basketball. Some people are naturally good at it. Maybe there's something to it….this "gift" nonsense. I don't know. I'd ask the commentators on XTraFrame…but;

1) They never answer me.
2) Marshall Kent already kinda answered it 2 days ago.

Hell…why not…I'll ask them and see what happens...

[Aslan]

HOLY CRAP!!!

THEY ACTUALLY READ MY "GIFT" QUESTION ON THE AIR ON XTRAFRAME!!!

Somewhere between 09:00:00 and 9:20:00 for you guys that want to watch the replay and listen.

Essentially, Mark said that it would be pretty hard for a naturally "bad" bowler to ever make the tour. Then they talked about players that were on the tour back in the day that when they first got on the tour were really bad…then became good. Billy Hardwick, Joh Mazza, Amletto Monticelli, a couple others.

They didn't really comment on whether a naturally gifted bowler could end up being a bad pro…but they did say that generally when players get on the tour, they either get better or they get worse. They either make the tour and immediately get outclassed and thats that. Or they get on the tour and do the things they need to do to get better…I think they were eluding to the fact that the pros continue to work on skills and don't just rely on their "gift".

COool!! They actually said my name and I got both Mark Baker and Marshall Holman to answer this BowlingBoards perennial debate!!! They contributed to the forum without even KNOWING it!!!

[fortheloveofbowling]

I heard that, didn't hear the name and was seriously wondering if that was you. COOL

[RobLV1]

HOLY CRAP!!!

THEY ACTUALLY READ MY "GIFT" QUESTION ON THE AIR ON XTRAFRAME!!!

Somewhere between 09:00:00 and 9:20:00 for you guys that want to watch the replay and listen.

Essentially, Mark said that it would be pretty hard for a naturally "bad" bowler to ever make the tour. Then they talked about players that were on the tour back in the day that when they first got on the tour were really bad…then became good. Billy Hardwick, Joh Mazza, Amletto Monticelli, a couple others.

They didn't really comment on whether a naturally gifted bowler could end up being a bad pro…but they did say that generally when players get on the tour, they either get better or they get worse. They either make the tour and immediately get outclassed and thats that. Or they get on the tour and do the things they need to do to get better…I think they were eluding to the fact that the pros continue to work on skills and don't just rely on their "gift".

COool!! They actually said my name and I got both Mark Baker and Marshall Holman to answer this BowlingBoards perennial debate!!! They contributed to the forum without even KNOWING it!!!

A couple of years ago when I interviewed Mark Baker, he mentioned one bowler who was just not as good as everyone else when they were bowling in Junior leagues. He was a donator who just wouldn't go away. I've also heard stories of this same bowler who would show up at 9:00 a.m. when the bowling center opened to practice, and was still there at 5:00 p.m. when they went to oil the lanes for evening leagues. Eventually, he could compete, due primarily to the hard work that he put in. His name? Walter Ray Williams Jr..

[MICHAEL]

HOLY CRAP!!!

THEY ACTUALLY READ MY "GIFT" QUESTION ON THE AIR ON XTRAFRAME!!!

Somewhere between 09:00:00 and 9:20:00 for you guys that want to watch the replay and listen.

Essentially, Mark said that it would be pretty hard for a naturally "bad" bowler to ever make the tour. Then they talked about players that were on the tour back in the day that when they first got on the tour were really bad…then became good. Billy Hardwick, Joh Mazza, Amletto Monticelli, a couple others.

They didn't really comment on whether a naturally gifted bowler could end up being a bad pro…but they did say that generally when players get on the tour, they either get better or they get worse. They either make the tour and immediately get outclassed and thats that. Or they get on the tour and do the things they need to do to get better…I think they were eluding to the fact that the pros continue to work on skills and don't just rely on their "gift".

COool!! They actually said my name and I got both Mark Baker and Marshall Holman to answer this BowlingBoards perennial debate!!! They contributed to the forum without even KNOWING it!!!

W.T.F...... AND they didn't even mention ICEMAN?????????? I am the one that started, and gives gift certificates on this site. I Have on past threads even elaborated a bunch on "THE GIFT"...... I might win the Noble Prize for Bowling!! I Made it, through Aslan to the big time!!! LOL (:)

[MICHAEL]

Sorry Rob…but I think he's right. I've put more money and effort into trying to develop skill than anyone on this site…maybe even VDubtx…and I'm stuck at about 137-155. Tonight…didn't go well.

Then I get to watch the Chemelion Championship tonight and they talk about Dave Wodka and his girlfriend Diana Z….which is REALLY unfair….

But ya know what…as insane as Iceman certainly is…sometimes maybe people just aint good at something. I'm HORRIBLE at basketball. Some people are naturally good at it. Maybe there's something to it….this "gift" nonsense. I don't know. I'd ask the commentators on XTraFrame…but;

1) They never answer me.
2) Marshall Kent already kinda answered it 2 days ago.

Hell…why not…I'll ask them and see what happens...

Have you ever seen the Wizard of Oz Aslan?? :rolleyes: You know the story, the Tin man, the Scare Crow, and the LION! WHAT THEY WANTED most they already had, and in YOUR CASE,,,,,,, YOU HAVE IT TOO! I did see it that day we met with Rob! YOU HAVE to BELIEVE in YOURSELF!
NOW STOP feeling sorry for yourself, ICEMAN has given you two gift certificates, that you really didn't even need!

From this day forth go to the lanes KNOWING THAT YOU ASLAN, are the BEAST! Why do you think I gave you the avatar I did?????
Because its your inner TRUE SELF!

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss305/starwind_federation/Big_cats/lion.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/starwind_federation/media/Big_cats/lion.jpg.html)

Once you get your average up to 190, I will allow you to use this avatar, (if you like it better), for the remainder of your time! (:) I like this one, it suits you more, now that I have met you in person! MORE,,, HOW DO I SAY IT,,,, colorful!!

[Aslan]

W.T.F...... AND they didn't even mention ICEMAN?????????? I am the one that started, and gives gift certificates on this site. I Have on past threads even elaborated a bunch on "THE GIFT"...... I might win the Noble Prize for Bowling!! I Made it, through Aslan to the big time!!! LOL (:)

Think of it Ice!!! We actually MADE the World Series of Bowling telecast. Granted...it was internet and not TV. And granted we didn't make it as bowlers....more so as Facebook commentors. BUT STILL!!! We are now BIG TIME!!!

Ice...the next step is to actually bowl there. I NEED to UP my game...BIG TIME! I need to take a giftless body and WORK LIKE HELLo to gain the skill necessary. And you need to take that GIFT...and actually start pushing yourself into local tournaments to prepare yourself for you eventual Tour debut. We're already HALF WAY to the SHOW...we've had a discussion mentioned by two Hall of Famers!! Now it's time to go one step FURTHER!!! The next time we meet in Vegas Iceman...it will be in either squad A or squad B. Maybe we'll even be ROOMMATES.

Actually, the roommate thing isn't gonna happen. I need a room to myself for the hard liquor, drugs, and prostitutes. Ice...you're sort of a hippie...so you above all can appreciate that if you WILL it...if you DREAM it...if you can VISUALIZE it...IT can become REALITY!!

Lets go Ice. I just turned 40 yesterday. You and I don't have much time left. It's time to start upping our games BIG TIME. No more idolizing Pat Henderson for being the best bowler in Missouri. It's time for ICEMAN to be the bowler that makes Pat Henderson a forgotten name on a plaque on the wall.


A couple of years ago when I interviewed Mark Baker, he mentioned one bowler who was just not as good as everyone else when they were bowling in Junior leagues. He was a donator who just wouldn't go away. I've also heard stories of this same bowler who would show up at 9:00 a.m. when the bowling center opened to practice, and was still there at 5:00 p.m. when they went to oil the lanes for evening leagues. Eventually, he could compete, due primarily to the hard work that he put in. His name? Walter Ray Williams Jr..

I LOVE that story. I think of it often when I lose my encuragement and think about giving up. I also remember the stories of guys like Earl, or Norm, or Marshall H., or PDW where they talk about the 100s of games a week or the thousands of hours a month that they put in to get where they are. It makes me at least hopeful that 'someday'....even without the gift....if I put in the work and dedication...IT can happen.

I have no delusions of grandjeur. I'm simply too old to have any realistic shot at the PBA Tour. But God willing (and the creek don't rise)...with a decade between my 40th and 50th birthday...IF the PBA50 still exists in 2024 (and I still exist then...uninjured)...I WANT IN! By then, PDW, WRW, Amletto, Norm, even Parker....the legends will have cleared out. I'll have Barnes to contend with...but my long term goal is the Senior Masters...2024/2025. I want to be the next example of the bowler that was 'horrible' but worked hard enough to change that...despite absence of the "gift".

[got_a_300]

I've always said not everyone but some have the natural bowling talent/gift
in them automatically it is just a matter of bringing it out into the open and
them realizing they have it and then acting on it to put the talent/gift to use.

[Mike White]

Sorry Rob…but I think he's right. I've put more money and effort into trying to develop skill than anyone on this site…maybe even VDubtx…and I'm stuck at about 137-155. Tonight…didn't go well.

There is no way you've put more money and effort in during one/two years than I put in during the 70's-80's.

I was working at the bowling center during that time and practiced about 4 hours per day before or after my shift.

And then I played in pot games from midnight until 8 am.

When reactive resin came out, it was clear to me, that the hard work I put in learning to combine speed, accuracy, and revs to maximize scoring no longer gave me an edge on a field that could buy the same striking power.

So I took a break from bowling which lasted about 20 years.

[Mike White]

Have you ever seen the Wizard of Oz Aslan?? :rolleyes: You know the story, the Tin man, the Scare Crow, and the LION! WHAT THEY WANTED most they already had, and in YOUR CASE,,,,,,, YOU HAVE IT TOO!

Do you realize how violent that movie is.

Dorothy flies into town and kills one.

The sister of the one killed wants revenge, so Dorothy hunts her down, and kills her too.

[Mike White]

A couple of years ago when I interviewed Mark Baker, he mentioned one bowler who was just not as good as everyone else when they were bowling in Junior leagues. He was a donator who just wouldn't go away. I've also heard stories of this same bowler who would show up at 9:00 a.m. when the bowling center opened to practice, and was still there at 5:00 p.m. when they went to oil the lanes for evening leagues. Eventually, he could compete, due primarily to the hard work that he put in. His name? Walter Ray Williams Jr..

Doesn't make sense, Mark is from the Orange County area, where as WRWjr was from up in northern California.

He came to So Cal for College (Cal Poly Pomona).

I saw him in San Berdoo in the mid 80's, in an open scratch league, but he was still known as the Horse Shoe guy.

[J Anderson]

Think of it Ice!!! We actually MADE the World Series of Bowling telecast. Granted...it was internet and not TV. And granted we didn't make it as bowlers....more so as Facebook commentors. BUT STILL!!! We are now BIG TIME!!!

Ice...the next step is to actually bowl there. I NEED to UP my game...BIG TIME! I need to take a giftless body and WORK LIKE HELLo to gain the skill necessary. And you need to take that GIFT...and actually start pushing yourself into local tournaments to prepare yourself for you eventual Tour debut. We're already HALF WAY to the SHOW...we've had a discussion mentioned by two Hall of Famers!! Now it's time to go one step FURTHER!!! The next time we meet in Vegas Iceman...it will be in either squad A or squad B. Maybe we'll even be ROOMMATES.

Actually, the roommate thing isn't gonna happen. I need a room to myself for the hard liquor, drugs, and prostitutes. Ice...you're sort of a hippie...so you above all can appreciate that if you WILL it...if you DREAM it...if you can VISUALIZE it...IT can become REALITY!!

Lets go Ice. I just turned 40 yesterday. You and I don't have much time left. It's time to start upping our games BIG TIME. No more idolizing Pat Henderson for being the best bowler in Missouri. It's time for ICEMAN to be the bowler that makes Pat Henderson a forgotten name on a plaque on the wall.



I LOVE that story. I think of it often when I lose my encuragement and think about giving up. I also remember the stories of guys like Earl, or Norm, or Marshall H., or PDW where they talk about the 100s of games a week or the thousands of hours a month that they put in to get where they are. It makes me at least hopeful that 'someday'....even without the gift....if I put in the work and dedication...IT can happen.

I have no delusions of grandjeur. I'm simply too old to have any realistic shot at the PBA Tour. But God willing (and the creek don't rise)...with a decade between my 40th and 50th birthday...IF the PBA50 still exists in 2024 (and I still exist then...uninjured)...I WANT IN! By then, PDW, WRW, Amletto, Norm, even Parker....the legends will have cleared out. I'll have Barnes to contend with...but my long term goal is the Senior Masters...2024/2025. I want to be the next example of the bowler that was 'horrible' but worked hard enough to change that...despite absence of the "gift".

Here is your new role model Aslan: http://www.pba.com/Bowlers/HallOfFame/391
Never won anything on the regular tour until he was 57.

[RobLV1]

Doesn't make sense, Mark is from the Orange County area, where as WRWjr was from up in northern California.

He came to So Cal for College (Cal Poly Pomona).

I saw him in San Berdoo in the mid 80's, in an open scratch league, but he was still known as the Horse Shoe guy.

I'm just telling you what Mark Baker told me. Go tell him he's wrong for a change.

[MICHAEL]

I'm just telling you what Mark Baker told me. Go tell him he's wrong for a change.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk_zps97be1d94.gif.html)

Wow,,, ICEMAN want to know the real scoop!! Mike, give Mark a call and get back to us!! Until then I will be waiting patiently,
eating my popcorn!!

[MICHAEL]

Do you realize how violent that movie is.

Dorothy flies into town and kills one.

The sister of the one killed wants revenge, so Dorothy hunts her down, and kills her too.

MIKEie,,, MIkeie MIKEIE!!! YOU could take a wonderful damp dream, and turn it into a desert!!!! Is that really what you got out of the Wizard of Oz?
Maybe I need to send my Wife's flying monkeys out your way!!

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l237/indygamer/80.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/indygamer/media/80.gif.html)

[MICHAEL]

Think of it Ice!!! We actually MADE the World Series of Bowling telecast. Granted...it was internet and not TV. And granted we didn't make it as bowlers....more so as Facebook commentors. BUT STILL!!! We are now BIG TIME!!!

Ice...the next step is to actually bowl there. I NEED to UP my game...BIG TIME! I need to take a giftless body and WORK LIKE HELLo to gain the skill necessary. And you need to take that GIFT...and actually start pushing yourself into local tournaments to prepare yourself for you eventual Tour debut. We're already HALF WAY to the SHOW...we've had a discussion mentioned by two Hall of Famers!! Now it's time to go one step FURTHER!!! The next time we meet in Vegas Iceman...it will be in either squad A or squad B. Maybe we'll even be ROOMMATES.

bowl here? ARE you saying you will bowl in the: " Real Men Bowl on Wood In Small Town America, on 6 lanes, Mom and Pop alleys" ???

Actually, the roommate thing isn't gonna happen. I need a room to myself for the hard liquor, drugs, and prostitutes. Ice...you're sort of a hippie...so you above all can appreciate that if you WILL it...if you DREAM it...if you can VISUALIZE it...IT can become REALITY!!

You know I like you bud, but I AGREE! I could handle all of the above, but the female impersonators, would blow my top!!

No more idolizing Pat Henderson for being the best bowler in Missouri. It's time for ICEMAN to be the bowler that makes Pat Henderson a forgotten name on a plaque on the wall.

maybe,,,, MAYBE YOUR RIGHT!!! I don't idolize Pat, but do worship him!!



I LOVE that story. I think of it often when I lose my encuragement and think about giving up. I also remember the stories of guys like Earl, or Norm, or Marshall H., or PDW where they talk about the 100s of games a week or the thousands of hours a month that they put in to get where they are. It makes me at least hopeful that 'someday'....even without the gift....if I put in the work and dedication...IT can happen.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT!!

I have no delusions of grandjeur. I'm simply too old to have any realistic shot at the PBA Tour. But God willing (and the creek don't rise)...with a decade between my 40th and 50th birthday...IF the PBA50 still exists in 2024 (and I still exist then...uninjured)...I WANT IN! By then, PDW, WRW, Amletto, Norm, even Parker....the legends will have cleared out. I'll have Barnes to contend with...but my long term goal is the Senior Masters...2024/2025. I want to be the next example of the bowler that was 'horrible' but worked hard enough to change that...despite absence of the "gift".

YOUR not to FRICKEN OLD! But to compete on Sports patterns is a whole new ball game! We both need to FIND SOME and give it a go! I know the closest thing to it so far to me is that league in Plattsburg, where they change the pattern every week. But even that does not qualify as a sports pattern.
I might talk to them about putting down Sports patters for the experience, on league nights. I did just put up 60.00 bucks to enter my first seniors tournament coming up soon at Gladstone bowl. The lanes where I have had 2 current 700 plus series lately. WHO KNOWS,,,, we will see! Some good bowlers will be in that tournament, including Pat Henderson and several other great bowlers from around here. I plan on winning it, but we shall see!

I feel, and have been bowling even better then ever, since I got back from Sin City!!

I hope that YOU do, along with Mike White, Muddpuppy, and Rob make the trip!

I am renting the place, and will only allow bowlingboard.com members to participate that actually post, and have at least 100 posts or more between now and June 13 2015.

[Aslan]

Doesn't make sense, Mark is from the Orange County area, where as WRWjr was from up in northern California.

He came to So Cal for College (Cal Poly Pomona).

I saw him in San Berdoo in the mid 80's, in an open scratch league, but he was still known as the Horse Shoe guy.

I heard a similar version of the story. I heard it was in Texas where WRW started bowling in house leagues and wasn't anything special…he was more known for horseshoes. But he worked as hard as anyone and just willed himself into eventual domination.

It doesn't matter. It's a story that is largely accepted as true…no matter where it was and when. The important thing is I will be following in his footsteps and someday…Mike and Rob will be arguing about ME!!! Hopefully they get it right given they have more intimate knowledge of my game and lack there of. I also look forward to Rob interviewing me for BTM.

I won't forget my friends…no matter how awesome I become…I promise!

[MICHAEL]

I heard a similar version of the story. I heard it was in Texas where WRW started bowling in house leagues and wasn't anything special…he was more known for horseshoes. But he worked as hard as anyone and just willed himself into eventual domination.

It doesn't matter. It's a story that is largely accepted as true…no matter where it was and when. The important thing is I will be following in his footsteps and someday…Mike and Rob will be arguing about ME!!! Hopefully they get it right given they have more intimate knowledge of my game and lack there of. I also look forward to Rob interviewing me for BTM.

I won't forget my friends…no matter how awesome I become…I promise!


THAT'S the ATTITUDE!!!

think BIG, and big things will happen grasshopper!! It has worked for this old broken down Iron Worker!! Every time I step up to the lane I say: This is going to be another 300! Then after a first frame 10 pin leave and picking it up.

I say: Ok,,,, now I WILL SHOOT A 290,,,,, ect ect... POSITIVE THINKIG does make a HUGE difference, along with being gifted!! LOL

Let's face it, bowling is not like running the 100 yard dash!!! I know seniors in their 70's that stil roll 300s and great series!! When you become a Pro Bowler, its good to know that you will not forget Rob, Mike, Mud, and ICE!!