General Reason Why Bowlers (some) Deserve the Decline...

[Aslan]

So I'm bowling with my daughter and 2 of her friends. Really I'm just practicing…but I'm also offering them some minor, basic tips.

So…after a few frames, this old guy on the lane next to them (the girls, I was on the lane on the other side) says something to me. I can't really hear him very well because of the loud music and everything…at first I was assuming that he was commenting on how the girls made a good shot or maybe he saw me strike and was commenting that I made a good shot.

Then I move closer to try and hear him and he says, sort of loudly and a with a little aggravated tone; "Hey 'coach' (said in a slightly snarky way), maybe you can teach them lane courtesy! I mean…we have to wait while they throw 3 balls …come on!"

So…I just say, "okay" and I tell the girls that they need to make sure they wait their turn, etc… That it's "lane courtesy/etiquette". No big deal.

But as I was thinking about it…it really started to bother me. I mean;

1) He could have come over and pulled me aside to ask that I talk to them about lane courtesy…there was no need to raise a stink in front of the kids. All that does is frighten the kids and make them not want to bowl because they feel like they're going to get yelled at by some grumpy, old adult.

2) The derogatory way he said "coach"…it was kinda like he was making fun of me for trying to help teach little kids how to bowl. Like he was judging me or something.

Now, I didn't say or do anything…because I was there as a parent and someone that was entrusted with watching kids…it wouldn't have been appropriate to get in a fight with some old man at a bowling alley. Just too many things could go wrong. And I didn't have a problem with him wanting lane courtesy. But it's the WAY…he did it.

And thats the problem with a LOT of bowlers. I admit…open bowling…sure, I get frustrated too when the high schoolers and college kids start jumping around on the approach when I'm trying to practice. I get it. It can be irritating. And part of you wants to "inform them" of the need for courtesy. I get it. But when it's a CHILD…you should calmly and nicely pull their parent aside and ASK them NICELY to help you out. NOT make a scene. Not throw a PDW fit. Not cuss anyone out. And not make the kids NOT want to bowl anymore.

I used to think we have a shared responsibility to educate casual bowlers regarding bowling etiquette and sport bowling. Now I think we have the shared responsibility to educate OTHER SPORT BOWLERS on how to interact in a positive way future sport bowlers.

--rant over--

[MICHAEL]

I feel your pain,,,, wish I was there, I would have had a Little Older man to Older man talk! That was very rude, my birthday cake and tournament organizer friend!! NO BODY messes with my friends!! I guess you did the right thing having the kids with you, but it must have been hard taking that kind of SMART ASK statement! Your a bigger man then me!! I would have been in his,,, well never mind!!

I am here for you buddy, if you ever need me!! 1800 miles is nothing for ICEMAN!!
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/67725c44-82ab-423d-a814-91128a803d75_zps171867e3.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/67725c44-82ab-423d-a814-91128a803d75_zps171867e3.jpg.html)

the guy was a JERK, plain and simple!

ICEMAN found the guy that gave you grief,,, we met on muscle beach where he was working out with Arnold,,,, below is a Gif of him saying he is SORRY bud!! He was very expressive with his hands....
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/ALittleAngry_zpsqurg9eeh.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/ALittleAngry_zpsqurg9eeh.gif.html)

[Jaescrub]

Aslan you should have just played hella dumb like lane courtesy? What's this lane courtesy your talking about? Then when he explained act like you don't get it ask a ton of questions that always gets under the skin ha ha ha. As for ice man you always post the craziest S on here ha ha ha always funny.

[Aslan]

I like to think of myself as "Non-confrontational out of Survival". What I mean by that is I am a very BIG time bomb…so I need a very, very long fuse. If I had a short fuse I'd have been killed or beaten or be in jail. So, it takes a LOT to get me to explode and a lot to even get me in a confrontation.

I think female bowlers have a bit of an advantage in that regard. I've bowled with females that were fearless in terms of speaking their mind and getting in people's faces. But they have less to lose in that situation because the guy isn't likely to engage tyhem or get physical.

I read an interesting book about that…the differences between men and women in some situations. The book pointed to why guys tend to get quiet and leave a confrontation rather than continue to argue with their female partner. And it has to do with years of training, from childhood in most cases. And men have evolved to realize (in most cases) that:

1) Women are better at talking/arguing than we are…so engaging them on that battlefield is a losing effort.
2) Men's strength is their physical dominance…and we can't use that against the female partner so we're essentially in a gunfight without our gun.
3) Many species, not just humans, truly physically fight only out of absolute necessity because from an evolutionary standpoint, those that fight tend to perish more so than those that don't. They waste energy. They get injured.

There…FREE psychology lesson there.

[Blacksox1]

Good control as a parent, Aslan. You made a good choice. In my own way, I sometimes say; Thanks for your unsolicited opinion, to people like this. Sometimes I follow it up with, do you need a tissue?

[foreverincamo]

I have only one problem with ' lane courtesy" in league play, and that's the guy who wants no one bowling three lanes to either side of him every single time he's up. We're not bowling for big money. One lane to either side and go!

[circlecity]

I agree with old man wanting some lane courtesy but he failed big time on how to get it.

[bowl1820]

lane courtesy?

One time along while back at another house I bowled league at. I came in to open bowl and there was no one there, after I had been there a whiile another person came in and they put him 12 lanes away from where I was.

You guessed it, after a while he came down and started yelling at me for getting on the lanes the same time he did. He said something about how it was better over at the other house , So I said well if it was there's the door, don't let hit you on the way out going over there.

He when back to his lanes bowling some more then left.

[Amyers]

I don't really expect lane courtesy out of bowlers below the age of 12 and it doesn't bother me when I don't get it in open bowling. if for some reason they are bowling next to us on a league night I would go over and explain it to them. For open bowling I usually just look at it as a way to work on my concentration.

[vdubtx]

I don't really expect lane courtesy out of bowlers below the age of 12 and it doesn't bother me when I don't get it in open bowling. if for some reason they are bowling next to us on a league night I would go over and explain it to them. For open bowling I usually just look at it as a way to work on my concentration.

Absolutely agree, except, houses typically give 1 pair buffer during leagues. Every house I have bowled in does this.

For practice time, I could care less if they run up on the lane while I am in my stance and then approach. Concentration and getting used to distractions is all a benefit to a bowler. I have seen people get upset about the snack bar calling an order number to tell it's ready over the speakers, but they never complain about the general noise of balls hitting the pocket which is actually louder than the snack bar intercom anyway. Just another excuse for a bad shot is the way I see it.

Also, it's usually old farts that I see that get all bent out of shape with distractions especially during open bowling.

[MICHAEL]

Absolutely agree, except, houses typically give 1 pair buffer during leagues. Every house I have bowled in does this.

For practice time, I could care less if they run up on the lane while I am in my stance and then approach. Concentration and getting used to distractions is all a benefit to a bowler. I have seen people get upset about the snack bar calling an order number to tell it's ready over the speakers, but they never complain about the general noise of balls hitting the pocket which is actually louder than the snack bar intercom anyway. Just another excuse for a bad shot is the way I see it.

Also, it's usually old farts that I see that get all bent out of shape with distractions especially during open bowling.

SOME WHAT of a HUGE generalization!!! Are you calling ICEMAN an OLD FART??? Does that mean when YOU get Old, (if you live long enough) YOU will be a FART TOO)!

Chose your Words carefully,,, and your generalizations even more carefully!


Being a FART has little to do with age, but rather disposition of the stinker!!! LOL

[vdubtx]

SOME WHAT of a HUGE generalization!!! Are you calling ICEMAN an OLD FART??? Does that mean when YOU get Old, (if you live long enough) YOU will be a FART TOO)!

Chose your Words carefully,,, and your generalizations even more carefully!


Being a FART has little to do with age, but rather disposition of the stinker!!! LOL

I most certainly will be an OLD FART when I get older.

[rico]

Lane courtesy in league likely should be established at the league meeting prior to the first week of competition.....this would establish rules everyone needs to follow to keep things moving smoothly....there is no need to give three lanes courtesy for any league - one lane courtesy is plenty....slow pace of play is one reason bowlers opt out of five man teams because it takes too long to finish....next time you choose a league, try and encourage the league officers to designate specific lane courtesy rules before the league begins for everyone to follow as well as any other general rules which would help the league players....just my opinion....thanks

[MICHAEL]

I most certainly will be an OLD FART when I get older.

MOST Stinker's, wind up Old Farts if they live long enough! LOL

[bubba809]

Lane courtesy in league likely should be established at the league meeting prior to the first week of competition.....this would establish rules everyone needs to follow to keep things moving smoothly....there is no need to give three lanes courtesy for any league - one lane courtesy is plenty....slow pace of play is one reason bowlers opt out of five man teams because it takes too long to finish....next time you choose a league, try and encourage the league officers to designate specific lane courtesy rules before the league begins for everyone to follow as well as any other general rules which would help the league players....just my opinion....thanks

I believe what is being addressed here is for situations in "open bowling" where the league has no control over. NOT talking about within the league rules.

[axslinger]

I went bowling on Saturday and had a rather pleasant experience. Initially I had a lane to myself. After a game or so a couple with two young girls occupied the lane that shared the computer/scoring equipment. It couldn't have been a better experience. The father clearly played on a league and taught his girls to wait their turn. The were very respectful and well-behaved little girls.

My point is this; as bowlers, our etiquette doesn't go out the window just because we have our kids there. Our job is to teach our kids bowling etiquette just like teaching them to say "please" and "thank you." Too many people have the attitude that their kids' entertainment and enjoyment trumps the rest of the civilized world. I'm not suggest that is the case here but too often is it. Bowling etiquette isn't just for league bowlers; it's for everybody.

[Aslan]

I went bowling on Saturday and had a rather pleasant experience. Initially I had a lane to myself. After a game or so a couple with two young girls occupied the lane that shared the computer/scoring equipment. It couldn't have been a better experience. The father clearly played on a league and taught his girls to wait their turn. The were very respectful and well-behaved little girls.

My point is this; as bowlers, our etiquette doesn't go out the window just because we have our kids there. Our job is to teach our kids bowling etiquette just like teaching them to say "please" and "thank you." Too many people have the attitude that their kids' entertainment and enjoyment trumps the rest of the civilized world. I'm not suggest that is the case here but too often is it. Bowling etiquette isn't just for league bowlers; it's for everybody.

Agreed...but whether it's league or open...if you have an expectation of children that isn't being met...you address it calmly, nicely, and politely to the SIDE with their parent/guardian. You don't ever want to tell someone's kid how to behave or not to behave if their parent is right there. And you certainly don't risk scaring the kid off from bowling by yelling and carrying on about lane etiquette.

I think parents understand...but those that aren't parents...you have to be careful disciplining other people's kids. Parent's not only get defensive when you do this (because in a way it's a referendum on their parenting skills) but they will have a natural tendency to defend their kids EVEN IF they actually AGREE with you.

The guy in my example could have easily come over to me and calmly asked if I could help him out by explaining the "taking turns" stuff and I would have had ZERO issue with that. And if I was there as a coach, especially at the youth level, I would certainly talk about lane courtesy during one of the first sessions. But I was there as a parent, during open bowling on a Saturday...and was just giving 'pointers' to the girls to hopefully allow them to score better and enjoy the sport more.

This came up earlier this year at a USBC Sanctioned, USBC tournament. There were some newer, youth bowlers...bowling in the youth divisions...and they were located right next to the adults...and a couple of them didn't know about lane courtesy. So, one adult bowler went and told the USBC officials...the official went over and talked to the youth bowlers...and it was all taken care of, no harm no foul. Thats how it SHOULD be handled. On the flipside, during league play last spring...there was no cushion between league and open bowling...and there was almost a fist fight between a family that was there with their 3-5 kids and this team that had gotten pissed and yelled at them. Again...there are calm, polite ways to act...and then there are ways that lead to greater problems.

I get as irritated as PDW at a camera flash convention when I'm in my stance and some college guy runs up next to me and slams the ball onto the lane just as I'm about to release my ball. But...it's OPEN bowling...I assume it's not done on purpose...and I just alter my approach accordingly by only bowling when he's waiting for his ball or the pinsetter is up. And if I DID...IF I did decide to say something...I would do it politely and in a submissive way so not to make the situation worse.

And thats pretty much why I'm NOT a PDW fan. I just think going after fans when you make a bad shot...it's rediculous. During this year's WSOB I saw both him and Mike Fagan act that way. They miss a shot and start glaring at the other end of the facility because there was a noise or something. Hey...welcome to bowling. There are noises. Be a pro and bowl through it or retire and take your motor home to a National Forest where it's not noisy. Now...if a person is intentionally doing it...like Belmo and his water bottles...then I'd give them a pass (like I do with Sean Rash even though I think he's kind've an arrogant SOB).

[Big Merl]

One time I was getting some lunchtime practice in at a smaller center, had the whole house to me self. I got up, pulled out a mirror and starting getting rude at myself for lane courtesy. I says to myself, I says "Every time I get up to throw you do also, wait your turn!"

[Aslan]

One time I was getting some lunchtime practice in at a smaller center, had the whole house to me self. I got up, pulled out a mirror and starting getting rude at myself for lane courtesy. I says to myself, I says "Every time I get up to throw you do also, wait your turn!"

Well, when you're by yourself...and the lane conditions aren't bad...you have to have SOMEBODY to blame for missed shots. That would drive PDW crazy to bowl by himself...he'd have nobody to glare at when he missed.

[Ryster]

I have had this issue before during open bowling. There were some young kids next to us and they tended to drift into our approach when they were done with their shot. They would just throw one ball after another. We would get in one shot for every five or six they would throw. We politely asked their Dad if he would mind making sure they didn't cross over into our approach because we didn't want a collision. The guy unloaded on us and basically said he was there with his family to have a good time and for us to mind our own business. Then he said something rude to my Mom at which point the whole thing degraded into a verbal war between us. All we asked was for him to make sure his kids stayed on their side and the guy started yelling at us in front of his kids. The bowling alley finally had to intervene and reassign everyone to lanes on opposite ends of the center.

[Aslan]

There's a lot of psychology at play and it's why you have to be extra careful and extra cautious when kids are involved.

For parents, having the behavior of your kids questioned is not only a judgement of them; it's a judgement on the parents. So parents are very easily put on the defensive. Thats why you have to go out of the way to do it in private (not in front of the kids) and almost in a very submissive way...something like,

"Hey, I hate to interupt the family time, but I have a really quick favor to ask..." or, "Man, I hate to ask this but I'm a little worried if I don't I might end up causing a collision..." or just starting off with something like "It'd be a real big favor to me if..." or "Totally no big deal, but I was just wondering if..." And then an explanation of WHY you are asking. Maybe just a quick, "This is my only time to practice this week and I get really distracted if someone runs up next to me..." or "I'm worried if I'm in my backswing and a kid comes running over, I might not be able to stop the ball from hitting them..."...stuff like that.

If you come at them in the usual way I've seen it done, like "Hey! Can you stay on your own damn lane please!" or "C'mon!! Really?! Your kids keep running up while I'm trying to bowl over here!!" These, whether you're in the right or not, will likely lead to a confrontation where nobody wins.

And usually it's the bowling alley not doing a good job of controlling things. DON'T put open bowlers on the lane next to a league. If you know a league bowler is practicing, maybe don't put him right next to a birthday party. Try ot put the more serious bowlers next to each other and those there just having fun next to each other...maybe keep the kids together and adults seperate as much as possible. Better to take a little extra time doing lane assignments and have 2 groups of relatively happy customers than have a league bowler and a father of a family duking it out on lane 27 while the kids are in tears. Neither of those customers are likely going to return.

[MICHAEL]

Iceman actually hires unruly kids form a local orphanage! I pay them well to make noise, walk up the foul line at the same time I do, sometimes asking me questions while making my delivery, FLEX their plastic bottles.... ect ect... Its a great drill!!
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff429/justforgifs/tumblr_lnhphwJsZ61qzidut.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/justforgifs/media/tumblr_lnhphwJsZ61qzidut.gif.html)


I do this based on the advice of that great platinum bowling coach Wilber Strikings! He was a 14 degree ninja, that incorporated martial arts into his bowling. His book is wordy, Aslan,,, you would like it!!! Its full of ways to handle and put down unruly kids, or adults, without any damage to the lanes, or approaches!

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww86/TheDarkNinjaOfPeace/ninjako.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/TheDarkNinjaOfPeace/media/ninjako.gif.html)


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