Wondering what to do

[Amyers]

I seem to find myself in a bit of a predicament and I'm not sure what my best option is going to be. My bowling has much improved over the last couple of months after finally fixing some things or at least improving them some. I have reduced my grip pressure so I'm no longer having to use liquid skin patches on my thumb to prevent blisters, I have improved my timing so I don't fall off the shot nearly as often (still happens every now and then but even on those I hold it for a while before coming back down on the other foot), the plastic spare ball has improved my spare shooting and I seem to have found a solution for the left side stuff that has been vexing me (even though I went 1 for 4 on 10 pins last night :mad:). All told I have went from a 150-160 average bowler to 180-190 average bowler so far this fall :cool:.

I realize if I really want to be near the top I'm going to have to get that average up to 210-220. I seem to be having some issues getting there though. My biggest issue seems to be ball speed. We don't have speed monitors on the lanes I typically bowl on so this is subjective but on monitored lanes I usually come out around 15 mph. Some nights I have some extra speed lets say 15.5 mph and It really opens the lanes up for me it allows me to move a little farther right and if I miss to the right a little I'm okay on the nights I'm a little slower it forces me farther left and if I let the ball outside 10 at all it takes off too early. On those higher speed nights I am usually 210+ scores. I can't raise the level I hold the ball at anymore and I don't want to increase my footwork speed. If my timing is correct I'm not sure how to generate additional ball speed.

I can stand anywhere between 20 and 30 but prefer around 25 at the arrows I can throw anywhere between 10 and 17 farther inside I struggle to get the ball far enough right. My issue is to get my current ball consistently in the pocket I find myself at 32,33 with the feet quite often. This deep often if I get the ball outside of 10 at the break point the ball burns off too much energy and starts leaving 10 pins especially on those lower speed nights.

I have a tendency to plant and I have really worked on developing more of a slide thinking that might help develop more ball speed and it might but my ball tends to travel farther right when I do increase the slide negating any speed gains I get. I have tried getting more knee bend and using less loft but that seems to reduce my revs and I'm very inconsistent plus seems to cause me knee pain.

So at this point I'm at a loss and considering a few different options:

1. Take the Asylum to 4000 (currently at OOB 3000)
2. Add polish to the Asylum
3. Add surface to the Asylum
4. Buy a new ball
5. Find some way of adding additional speed that is comfortable and doesn't create more issues

The downside to each of these:

1. This would help the ball read later and get farther down the lane but would also create more ball movement not sure this would help. Advantage this wouldn't cost anything.
2. Same as above but additional disadvantage would cost about $30 plus might not solve my problem
3. this would reduce the hook but one of the issues is the ball starts hooking too early anyway I think this would just make the problem worse. Advantage would be cost free
4. I think a higher RG ball would help have been considering Hysteria, Punch Out, Outcry, or Fortera Exile. Disadvantage cost couldn't do until after Christmas
5. I have no idea what else to do

Sorry for the long post I feel like Aslan ;). If any of you have any ideas please comment.

[Aslan]

If you are struggling to reach that next level; it's time for an actual coach.

If you can't find a silver level coach in your land of hillbilly nonsense...try to pick up Mark Baker's recent DVD and at least it'll be a "start".

I wouldn't bother messing with the balls. A good bowler can average over 200 using just about any ball drilled for their hand. If you need more speed...you probably need to look at footwork. I've heard most speed comes from the approach. 4-step to 6-step...starting further back...that might work. But yeah, timing and everything will need to be adjusted.

[bubba809]

Not sure what the best solution would be for you Amyers. You have been bowling very well this year and I understand you want to take the next step in raising your average. Just be careful in changing your surface, changing your approach for ball speed or even purchasing a whole new ball.

I was at a point where I had everything coming together last year. Ball was drilled and sized perfectly. Surface was great for me. My average was 15 pins higher than ever before. What did I do? Went out and bought a new ball. Thought? I will improve even more with a newer ball! Hell, I even bought ANOTHER ball since then. Well, after multiple surface changes and a redrilling, I never got back to that "improved" bowling I experienced. So where am I at now? I went back to that original ball I used with the same surface.

While I do believe no two balls are alike, I really do believe sometimes we just have that REALLY good ball that just works great for us individually.

Like another bowler told me... Why mess with something that's working??

[Amyers]

If you are struggling to reach that next level; it's time for an actual coach.

If you can't find a silver level coach in your land of hillbilly nonsense...try to pick up Mark Baker's recent DVD and at least it'll be a "start".

I wouldn't bother messing with the balls. A good bowler can average over 200 using just about any ball drilled for their hand. If you need more speed...you probably need to look at footwork. I've heard most speed comes from the approach. 4-step to 6-step...starting further back...that might work. But yeah, timing and everything will need to be adjusted.

Would be nice but not going to happen here. I do work with the guy that runs the proshop at my home lanes. Collegiate bowler and has done well in some PBA regionals has like 35 300+ games but there is a difference between a coach and a good bowler or ball driller. There just simply are not any silver certified coaches in the area.

Changing balls is really my last option its not something that I really want to do and I don't expect it to fix all of my issues but I didn't pick the Asylum I won it and have bowled ok with it. I'm just not sure its the best fit for my game. I do get what you are saying if the lanes are little dry I can throw my plastic spare ball and score in the 190-200 range doesn't make it my best option though.

[RobLV1]

Two things that you say gives me a pretty good clue as to your lack of ball speed: first, you tend to plant rather than slide, and second, when you move in you have trouble getting the ball to the right. The fact that you tend to plant tells me that your timing is probably late. The fact that you can still post your shot most of the time and have trouble projecting the ball to the right says that you are, quite likely, a bowler with "late timing trying to be early." This is an actual problem that coaches are trained to look for which involves the bowling shoulder coming forward and down to try and get the ball back into position. This motion makes projecting the ball to the right almost impossible, and since the timing is still late in the swing, results in a loss of ball speed. To correct this, try these four drills:

1. One step drill - with your left foot (I assume you are right handed) about three feet from the foul line, and your right foot slightly behind your left foot, let the ball swing a few times before starting your slide as the ball starts down from your backswing. If your timing is as late as I think it is, this will feel really strange, so you may need some help. Have a friend stand to the left of you and hold something long and thin like a golf club or a yardstick on your left foot. Tell your helper not to remove the stick from your left foot until the ball starts down from the top of the backswing. This will teach you what neutral timing feels like.

2. Practice keeping your shoulders "quiet" throughout the swing. This means minimal lateral movement from the shoulders through the downswing and release. To see a good example of quiet shoulders, take a look at videos of Rhino Page - reputed to have the quietest shoulders on Tour.

3. Try holding the ball further back in your setup (it will feel like the ball is so far back that it's almost behind you) to increase the length of your push away to get you more speed.

4. Make sure that your push away starts on your fourth step back from the foul line, i.e., the first step in a four-step approach, and the second step in a five-step approach. Most late timing is a result of holding the ball too long before the push away begins.

Good Luck!

[Amyers]

Two things that you say gives me a pretty good clue as to your lack of ball speed: first, you tend to plant rather than slide, and second, when you move in you have trouble getting the ball to the right. The fact that you tend to plant tells me that your timing is probably late. The fact that you can still post your shot most of the time and have trouble projecting the ball to the right says that you are, quite likely, a bowler with "late timing trying to be early." This is an actual problem that coaches are trained to look for which involves the bowling shoulder coming forward and down to try and get the ball back into position. This motion makes projecting the ball to the right almost impossible, and since the timing is still late in the swing, results in a loss of ball speed. To correct this, try these four drills:

1. One step drill - with your left foot (I assume you are right handed) about three feet from the foul line, and your right foot slightly behind your left foot, let the ball swing a few times before starting your slide as the ball starts down from your backswing. If your timing is as late as I think it is, this will feel really strange, so you may need some help. Have a friend stand to the left of you and hold something long and thin like a golf club or a yardstick on your left foot. Tell your helper not to remove the stick from your left foot until the ball starts down from the top of the backswing. This will teach you what neutral timing feels like.

2. Practice keeping your shoulders "quiet" throughout the swing. This means minimal lateral movement from the shoulders through the downswing and release. To see a good example of quiet shoulders, take a look at videos of Rhino Page - reputed to have the quietest shoulders on Tour.

3. Try holding the ball further back in your setup (it will feel like the ball is so far back that it's almost behind you) to increase the length of your push away to get you more speed.

4. Make sure that your push away starts on your fourth step back from the foul line, i.e., the first step in a four-step approach, and the second step in a five-step approach. Most late timing is a result of holding the ball too long before the push away begins.

Good Luck!

This wouldn't surprise me Rob as you've seen from my previous videos I have had serious issues with late timing I do think you may be correct because I can feel my shoulder coming forward a lot of the times right before my release. Most likely those nights with the extra speed are the ones where the timing are closer to correct. I just figured when I was finally able to post most of my shots I had fixed it leave it to me to find a way of masking the problem.

One question on number three if I increase the length of the push away wouldn't that make the timing even later? One of the things I worked on was reducing the push away and that upward movement I had with it to help improve my timing.

[RobLV1]

Just make sure that when you increase your push away, you also slow down your feet to compensate for the extra time.

[bubba809]

What did you decide to go with??

[Amyers]

What did you decide to go with??

I'm going to attempt Rob's suggestion in practice tonight and see how that goes. I won't be adding any balls until after Christmas anyway. I already have to purchase one for my daughter and if my wife's carpel tunnel improves she is going to demand a new ball too. So I'm out in the cold for a while.

[Mike White]

Just make sure that when you increase your push away, you also slow down your feet to compensate for the extra time.

Rather than slow the feet down to compensate, start further back so the feet have further to travel in the extended swing time.

If you just slow down your feet, your feet slow down the ball more than you gain with the longer swing.

[Aslan]

2. Practice keeping your shoulders "quiet" throughout the swing. This means minimal lateral movement from the shoulders through the downswing and release. To see a good example of quiet shoulders, take a look at videos of Rhino Page - reputed to have the quietest shoulders on Tour.

Good Luck!

The quiet shoulders thing is "huge". And I fear it's going to be a big change for you. Having bowled in a similar style in the past...with late timing and planting and kinda athletically chucking the ball...there's a ton of NOISE in that whole motion/release. To this day, even after 6 months of slowing things down and quieting the shoulder...I still have to REMIND myself to do it because it doesn't feel natural. If I don't THINK about it...I naturally will TRY to propel that ball down the lane rather than just let it happen.

Watching the PBA WSOB recently really impacted me regarding the quiet shoulder. Especially watching the female bowlers. They have very smooth and effortless swings. The ball speed isn't tremendous...but they can still score in the 220s-270s...averaging over 200. Personally I think speed is over-rated. If you master consistency, targeting, and spare shooting...but only throw the ball 16mph...you can easily average above 200. Maybe to beat Sean Rash or Jason Belmonte you need a 21mph shot...but why not beat folks like Iceman or some amateur tournament players before getting too far ahead of ourselves.

[Amyers]

Well I was going to practice yesterday but there was so little oil on the lanes I ended up throwing the plastic spare ball. Just ridiculous standing on thirty throwing over 12 with plastic to try and keep the ball on the right side of the head pin. Seems that my home house isn't putting oil down except for Friday and Sunday's now. They had been oiling on Mondays but after I gave up after 2 games I asked the manager and for some stupid reason they only oiled two sets on Monday which is not on the ones I was bowling on. Usually on Tuesdays they are not that bad but I had one of the better bowlers on the next set over from me and he couldn't get anything to hold either. I don't understand this does the oil really cost that much? I can tell you my next practice session is most likely going to be at another house. So their goes $25 in bowling and $30 dollars in food sold. Glad you guys are saving the $5 to $10 bucks you saved on the oil unless that stuff costs way more than I think. This is about the 3rd time I've had this problem in the last couple of months. I've moved my practice day from Thursday to Tuesday to try and accommodate their oiling schedule. I'm getting tired of scheduling my practice around when they want to present lanes in a playable condition. I'm not asking for a fresh shot but I do think it should be good enough that I can at least throw one of my reactive balls. Rant over

[RobLV1]

Well I was going to practice yesterday but there was so little oil on the lanes I ended up throwing the plastic spare ball. Just ridiculous standing on thirty throwing over 12 with plastic to try and keep the ball on the right side of the head pin. Seems that my home house isn't putting oil down except for Friday and Sunday's now. They had been oiling on Mondays but after I gave up after 2 games I asked the manager and for some stupid reason they only oiled two sets on Monday which is not on the ones I was bowling on. Usually on Tuesdays they are not that bad but I had one of the better bowlers on the next set over from me and he couldn't get anything to hold either. I don't understand this does the oil really cost that much? I can tell you my next practice session is most likely going to be at another house. So their goes $25 in bowling and $30 dollars in food sold. Glad you guys are saving the $5 to $10 bucks you saved on the oil unless that stuff costs way more than I think. This is about the 3rd time I've had this problem in the last couple of months. I've moved my practice day from Thursday to Tuesday to try and accommodate their oiling schedule. I'm getting tired of scheduling my practice around when they want to present lanes in a playable condition. I'm not asking for a fresh shot but I do think it should be good enough that I can at least throw one of my reactive balls. Rant over

I feel compelled to ask how you go from standing 30 to hitting 12? That 18"! The ball is 8 3/4" in diameter, and if your hand is behind it and under your shoulder, that means it should be no more than 5" from you slide foot. Where did the other 13" come from? Where we stand is irrelevant if we don't slide into the same board where we started. If you are starting at 30, and sliding into 20 to get the ball to twelve at the arrows, it is impossible to stay behind the ball just based on the fact that your intended line is so different from the line that you are walking. If you are walking right and throwing left, you have no choice but to come around, or over the top of the ball. These are things that you can work on whether or not the lanes have been recently oiled if you can free yourself up from the concept of score being the end all result of a practice session.

[Aslan]

and if your hand is behind it and under your shoulder, that means it should be no more than 5" from you slide foot.

I calculate that to be more like 10" for most people. That may be one of my many "problems" though. Ideally, I BELIEVE, you want the ball inside your head and just outside of you slide foot. Thats the very "pro style" release. But if you watch most people bowl, and especially Amyers with his higher loft style...I don't think you'll see a ball that is < 10" from his slide foot.

I can stand 30 and target 12, even with my very low rev rate. But it has to be with a sanded ball on dry lanes.

[Amyers]

I feel compelled to ask how you go from standing 30 to hitting 12? That 18"! The ball is 8 3/4" in diameter, and if your hand is behind it and under your shoulder, that means it should be no more than 5" from you slide foot. Where did the other 13" come from? Where we stand is irrelevant if we don't slide into the same board where we started. If you are starting at 30, and sliding into 20 to get the ball to twelve at the arrows, it is impossible to stay behind the ball just based on the fact that your intended line is so different from the line that you are walking. If you are walking right and throwing left, you have no choice but to come around, or over the top of the ball. These are things that you can work on whether or not the lanes have been recently oiled if you can free yourself up from the concept of score being the end all result of a practice session.

I'm not sure Rob. I never noticed a tendency to walk right but it is a possibility. I will say I highly doubt that the ball is five inches from my foot at release. The ball has to clear my fat A$$ so I figure its out farther than that. I will check my foot placement when I bowl next time and see if I am walking right as far as the ball being within 5" of my foot maybe I can have the wife take some video next time so I can see where it is but I'd be willing to bet money its farther right than that.

As far as score and practice goes if I am by myself practicing then yes most of the time I don't even turn the scorer on to keep from distracting myself. In addition to practicing it was a family outing also. If I had let one of them beat me I would have been hearing about it for the next six months so yeah in this instance I was paying attention to the score :(. When the lanes are dry like that and I'm paying attention to the score I tend to quit paying attention to what I'm working on and try to get the ball to the pocket yes I know it's not the best way to practice

That is 12 at the arrows not laydown also so I would think the ball would move at least some during that time and I don't loft it to the arrows or anything. Is that really that far out of whack? Standing on thirty with a Target of the third arrow is a pretty normal line for me.

[Amyers]

I calculate that to be more like 10" for most people. That may be one of my many "problems" though. Ideally, I BELIEVE, you want the ball inside your head and just outside of you slide foot. Thats the very "pro style" release. But if you watch most people bowl, and especially Amyers with his higher loft style...I don't think you'll see a ball that is < 10" from his slide foot.

I can stand 30 and target 12, even with my very low rev rate. But it has to be with a sanded ball on dry lanes.

28-30 standing and target of 12-17 is pretty normal for me but that's with the asylum. When your doing it with a plastic ball not a lot of fun.

[Aslan]

Yeah, Amyers, next time you bowl...as you release and after the shot...do 2 things?

1) Try to estimate how far the ball is away from your slide/plant foot. If it's right under your shoulder...thats about 12 boards for a guy your size. If it's closer to your plant/slide foot...estimate the distance.

2) Look at where that foot is. I have an amazing ability NOT to drift. Despite my jackalope first step which is both nonsensical and confusing...by left foot ends up in the same place it starts with very little effort. Some people struggle GREATLY with this. The only time I tend to drift is if in my head, I really feel like I'm at an extreme angle and the ball has no shot of coming back...then I'll sometimes subconsciously "cheat".

If your foot is relatively in the same spot...and you know how far the ball is from you foot...then it's easier to evaluate. Don't get me wrong, Rob is 100% correct...modern bowling teachers will almost unilaterally tell you to get that ball close to that foot...but very few bowlers actually do it or take lessons and stuff. It's also noticeable when you see people "fall" sideways after their shot. If I don't get the ball between my slide foot and my head (ball to the right of my head)...it pulls me sideways...and I usually don't make the best shot.