Tilt can't exceed Rotation ???

[Mike White]

So sayith Mo, so sayith we all.

Is this the same Mo who says it's physically impossible for the ball to have more axis tilt than axis rotation?

[Amyers]

Is this the same Mo who says it's physically impossible for the ball to have more axis tilt than axis rotation?

I think this is the quote you are talking about "I'll try to make this plain. All balls are delivered with more axis rotation than tilt. Cannot be any other way. The laws of physics dictate that. The ball loses both rotation and tilt. The ball loses rotation faster than it loses tilt until tilt = rotation. That occurs at the second transition. FACT! During the roll phase (after the second transition) the ball loses rotation and tilt at the same rate until the ball hits the pins. That should keep your mind busy for a while."

[Mike White]

I think this is the quote you are talking about "I'll try to make this plain. All balls are delivered with more axis rotation than tilt. Cannot be any other way. The laws of physics dictate that. The ball loses both rotation and tilt. The ball loses rotation faster than it loses tilt until tilt = rotation. That occurs at the second transition. FACT! During the roll phase (after the second transition) the ball loses rotation and tilt at the same rate until the ball hits the pins. That should keep your mind busy for a while."

This is one of his quotes, but again, it simply isn't true.

Do you know of any law of physics that limits tilt compared to rotation in a sphere?

Mo pulled that one out of a stinky place.

A ball rolls (stops hooking) when the rotation = the path of the ball.

If you use the boards as your 0* indicator, a rolling ball that hits the pocket at 6* would have to have 6* axis rotation.

If you use the ball's instantaneous path as your 0* indicator, the axis of rotation would have to have 0* axis rotation.

There are no physical laws dictating tilt relative to rotation.

A simple test.

Take a bowling ball and mark your PAP.

Place the ball on the approach such that the PAP is at 9 o clock when viewed from above (12 would be towards the pins).

And the PAP would be 9 o clock when viewed from behind (12 would be towards the ceiling.

From behind, rotate the ball so the pap is closer to 10:30 when viewed from behind. but still on the line towards 9 when viewed from above.

hold the ball at the PAP, and the NAP (opposite from the PAP) twist the ball with your fingers maintaining the PAP / NAP orientation.

You'll see the ball will roll just fine that way.

Yet somehow Mo thinks that's impossible.

[bowl1820]

Lets try not to derail a thread about surfacing with this, but for those interested This is what Mo said:

MO:

It is physically impossible for tilt to exceed rotation as the ball goes down the lane.

You can read it in context here:
http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1921

Look at user Ajvand0 posts he gave a explanation of what it means that Mo agrees with.

[Mike White]

Lets try not to derail a thread about surfacing with this, but for those interested This is what Mo said:

MO:
[quote]It is physically impossible for tilt to exceed rotation as the ball goes down the lane.[/quote}

You can read it in context here:
http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1921

Look at user Ajvand0 posts he gave a explanation of what it means that Mo agrees with.

Yes he give an explanation, but it is an incorrect explanation.

Lets define the axis, z axis goes from the ceiling to the floor. the x axis goes from the back of the approach towards the pins, and the y axis would be parallel to the foul line.

Place two balls with 0* tilt, and 0* axis rotation.

Rotate both balls along the x axis 45*

Rotate one ball along the z axis 45*.

Those two balls will no longer be positioned the same.

Ajvandu somehow things rotation along the x axis will also cause equal rotation along the z axis.

[bowl1820]

Okay this gets the resurfacing thread back on track.

as for MO's comment: "It is physically impossible for tilt etc. etc." any discussion of it should really be done over on bowlingchat with Mo himself.

It's not going to go anywhere here and involves technical issues that will basically be meaningless to most everybody.

[RobLV1]

Amen to that!