Anyone ever play in a league that doesn't oil pre-league?

[Aslan]

I showed up early to league tonight and there was a guy practicing on our lanes. My concern was that:

A) If he was an opponent, he's not allowed to practice on the same lanes he is going to bowl on before league play.

B) He's messing up the lanes for my team by playing on freshly oiled lanes.

So I go to the front desk and ask if they have free practice lanes. He said I have time for one game. I asked if they were going to oil them then and he said they already oiled. I then asked why a guy (and others) was bowling on them if they were oiled for league…and he replied; "They don't oil them before league anymore. They just put a lot of oil down in the morning and thats it…once per day."

I was kinda taken back my that. I mean, okay, the temperatures are cooling down…so less evaporation. School is back in session so less kids during the day. But on Tuesday,s I think there is a small league in the morning and a small league in the afternoon. If those lanes are only oiled in the morning….and are flooded…then the 9:30AM league must have a HELL of a time…and then those lanes are bowled on ALL DAY…primarily house balls pushing the oil further down the lane…so by the time the 30-team Tuesday league comes in…they are playing on some kind of hybrid longer pattern and everybody is probably playing on different patterns.

I tried to consult the USBC Rulebook but found virtually nothing on lane surfaces or a requirement for a fresh pattern. It boggles my mind that it would be perfectly okay to have a house run a league and not have at least a uniform pattern from lane to lane.

[Mike White]

ungreatful league bowlers, they want easy, pristine conditions, and a lower rate than open bowlers.

[Hampe]

Thats how one of the houses here is. Best case scenario he puts down the oil the afternoon the same day. But the lanes can be pretty difficult at that house sometimes, even though it's a "THS". There's a reason there hasn't been a 300 there in 2.5 years....

[J Anderson]

ungreatful league bowlers, they want easy, pristine conditions, and a lower rate than open bowlers.

Yes, and some free coffee, turkeys for Thanksgiving, and some bottles Christmas/New Years!;)

[J Anderson]

I showed up early to league tonight and there was a guy practicing on our lanes. My concern was that:

A) If he was an opponent, he's not allowed to practice on the same lanes he is going to bowl on before league play.

B) He's messing up the lanes for my team by playing on freshly oiled lanes.

I tried to consult the USBC Rulebook but found virtually nothing on lane surfaces or a requirement for a fresh pattern. It boggles my mind that it would be perfectly okay to have a house run a league and not have at least a uniform pattern from lane to lane.

The house that I usually bowl in oils every afternoon before the evening leagues start. Except for when the leagues take up all 56 lanes, they keep open bowlers off the fresh oil. I think that they might also oil before they open in the morning for the senior/daytime leagues. They do however have at least 4 leagues that start around 9:00p.m. after the early evening leagues. These late leagues get no fresh oil. I bowl in one of these and basically you get used to the condition. In fact there have been a number of bowlers in the league who struggle on those rare occasions when, for some reason, the other league hasn't bowled on one of our pairs. There is also a situation where a small 4:00p.m. league precedes a large 6:30p.m. league. In this case, since the 4 o'clock league is mostly social bowlers who throw plastic, six teams face a rather unpredictable lane condition while everyone else is shooting on fresh oil.

[backlasher]

The league I bowl in doesn't oil very often. We bowl Fridays at 1 o'clock and they oil Friday morning or maybe Thursday night. The lanes are usually pretty dry but we were told "it's the same for everyone". There's a good house 45 minutes away but this one is only 15 minutes so I stay there.

[Bradski9]

My alley is pretty good about oiling the lanes before leagues, Ed will oil

[Bradski9]

The lanes 2-3 hours before league and won't let anyone on them, usually there are a few lanes extra for open bowling. (Unless there's 2 or more leagues going at once)

[bowl1820]

I tried to consult the USBC Rulebook but found virtually nothing on lane surfaces or a requirement for a fresh pattern. It boggles my mind that it would be perfectly okay to have a house run a league and not have at least a uniform pattern from lane to lane.

It's not in the Rule book, it's in the Equipment & Spec. manual. Technically the house isn't required to oil the lanes at all, just if they do there has to be a minimum of three units of oil.


For those that want to know:

"A "unit" of oil is defined by the American Bowling Congress (ABC) and Women's International Bowling Congress (WIBC) as 0.0167 cubic centimeters of oil evenly spread over a 1 sq. ft. surface, which equates to a film of oil about 7 millionths of an inch thick."

Example: a piece of typing paper is about 400 units thick.

[ALazySavage]

The leagues I bowl in now both oil before league begins, but I did bowl in a league in which we were second squad. It was probably one of my favorite leagues to bowl in - you show up and have no idea how the pattern was broken down and the lanes could change very quickly. It was nice to show up and actually have to read the lanes when you arrived if you were going to score well.

[Aslan]

ungreatful league bowlers, they want easy, pristine conditions, and a lower rate than open bowlers.

Last I checked, there is no requirement for a bowling center to have leagues. I mean, if they think it's costing them money and aren't willing to provide service at an expected level...I'm sure in SoCal out 150 bowlers could spread out to other houses and leave them their Tuesday night for their ever-so-profitable occasional date night or young adult bowlers.

Well...it is what it is. I mean, yeah, it's the same for everyone I guess. But what about a sport shot? If the sport shot league was at 8PM instead of 8AM...could they put down the Cheetah pattern in the morning and just tell the sport league, "oh well...it's been bowled on...but it's the same for everyone"? I doubt that would go over well.

It just erks me when centers carp on their league bowlers. They buy into all that garbage that it's casual bowlers that are driving the sport when in fact if you look at every really successful center...they have leagues almost every day and at least 4 strong league nights during the week. I've seen TWO AMF houses that gotta be on the verge of closing down that thought they could "poo" on leagues and become "family entertainment centers" only to realize too late.

As Warren Buffet would say; "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."

[RobLV1]

My wife and I are bowling in a recreational league at Suncoast (where we bowled the First Annual Aslan vs. Iceman Tournament) at 12:30 on Friday afternoons. The lanes are oiled prior to the center opening at 8 a.m., and bowlers are free to bowl as much as they want to before our league. The only rule we have about it is that you cannot practice on your pair for that day prior to the start of league. Prior bowling can, and does, affect how the lanes play, though if you are ever intending to bowl in tournaments where you change pairs after each game, you had better get used to it. Look at bowling on used lanes as practice for tournaments, rather than as an excuse for not being able to find a shot.

[Mudpuppy]

My saturday league doesn't oil and 8 year olds open bowl on it before we bowl so it's ugly

[Mike White]

But what about a sport shot? If the sport shot league was at 8PM instead of 8AM...could they put down the Cheetah pattern in the morning and just tell the sport league, "oh well...it's been bowled on...but it's the same for everyone"? I doubt that would go over well.

If the league is following the rules for a sanctioned USBC Sport shot that wouldn't be allowed.

Sport Bowling Rules.
2.2 – Integrity. It is critical to the integrity of the Sport Bowling program that the lane conditions present at the start of certified competition comply with Sport Bowling lane dressing specifications. In addition, when using PBA Experience patterns, they should be representative of the specific PBA Experience pattern being used. Therefore, once lanes are conditioned for a Sport Bowling league or tournament, there shall be no bowling prior to the start of the competition, except for a reasonable amount of practice balls authorized by the competition, not to exceed 30 minutes.

[Mike White]

It just erks me when centers carp on their league bowlers. They buy into all that garbage that it's casual bowlers that are driving the sport when in fact if you look at every really successful center...they have leagues almost every day and at least 4 strong league nights during the week.

You are completely wrong. Examine the history of Bowlmor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowlmor_Lanes

The company got started with one bowling center in Manhattan, and turned it into a night club style bowling alley, ant they made a TON of money.

That might not ultimately translate across the country.

[Perrin]

Around here is is house to house league to league for oil.

Most of the time it's fresh oil before the league. but there is one house that does the oil once a day thing (amf/bowlmor) and they only do that on days that have league. so if you try to open bowl on say Tuesday and they hacven't had league since Sunday night good luck throwing anything but plastic right of the headpin.

The other houses ususally oil before league starts but I know of some that they don't oil between early and late league shifts so that the late league can start earlier.

[Aslan]

You are completely wrong. Examine the history of Bowlmor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowlmor_Lanes

The company got started with one bowling center in Manhattan, and turned it into a night club style bowling alley, ant they made a TON of money.

That might not ultimately translate across the country.

Well, the LAST sentence was the pertinent one.

I've read the articles, I've read the interviews with the Bowlmor execs, and the paper/study they always cite as to how bowling is becoming a night club thing with elaborate gourmet cousine, dance clubs, black lights, and laser tag.

But, the BOTTOM LINE is....Bowlmor has bought TWO AMF centers near where I live and work...reduced their staff...reduced the hours of operation...lost most of their leagues...and last time I went to Center A; it was because my home center had a 45 minute wait and when we got there (center A)...5 people counting me and my coworker...and the lanes had obviously not been oiled in days since my Slingshot hooked left into the gutter at about 45 feet.

The OTHER center...went there after work to practice before the AVI Challenge...they had lost all their daytime leagues (which had moved to the private center down the street), the alley had all new screens and scoring equipment...and there were maybe 9 people there. Finally their league showed up and I think it was like 7 teams. They had an "arcade area" that was completely vacant...not one arcade game. There was one old one that wasn't plugged in sitting in the corner and they used much of the space to store tables and stuff. And the whole time I was there...not one person in the snack bar. The lady at the counter said if I needed something to let her know and she'd go back there and make it.

Welcome to everywhere else (that isn't Manhattan).

[axslinger99]

My house is large enough that they oil everything in the morning then keep the left half of the house for leagues and the right half for open bowling. If for some reason they have to use the league side for open bowling, they oil them before the league starts.

[Mike White]

Well, the LAST sentence was the pertinent one.

I've read the articles, I've read the interviews with the Bowlmor execs, and the paper/study they always cite as to how bowling is becoming a night club thing with elaborate gourmet cousine, dance clubs, black lights, and laser tag.

But, the BOTTOM LINE is....Bowlmor has bought TWO AMF centers near where I live and work...reduced their staff...reduced the hours of operation...lost most of their leagues...and last time I went to Center A; it was because my home center had a 45 minute wait and when we got there (center A)...5 people counting me and my coworker...and the lanes had obviously not been oiled in days since my Slingshot hooked left into the gutter at about 45 feet.

The OTHER center...went there after work to practice before the AVI Challenge...they had lost all their daytime leagues (which had moved to the private center down the street), the alley had all new screens and scoring equipment...and there were maybe 9 people there. Finally their league showed up and I think it was like 7 teams. They had an "arcade area" that was completely vacant...not one arcade game. There was one old one that wasn't plugged in sitting in the corner and they used much of the space to store tables and stuff. And the whole time I was there...not one person in the snack bar. The lady at the counter said if I needed something to let her know and she'd go back there and make it.

Welcome to everywhere else (that isn't Manhattan).

Bowling's problem isn't with Bowlmor directly. It's with the countless other businesses that think along the same lines as Bowlmor.

Priority #1, cut labor costs.

Less people working tends to mean less people league bowling.

[Aslan]

I don't mind the practice as much as the message it sends. Like Rob said...adjusting to lane conditions is becoming an ever more important part of the game so it's best to learn how to do it.

But...when you have a house that is worried about limiting league sizes so not to interfere with open bowling...when you have a house that is not giving a 1-pair cushion between open and league bowlers...and now a house that has just decided to stop oiling before leagues because it costs them the open bowling on those lanes for 30-45 minutes prior to league...it sends the message to league bowlers that despite the rhetoric and "Happy Birthday" wishes...the owner and management really look at leagues as more of a hinderance than a benefit.

The Brunswick house I bowl at with MikeW on Sundays seems to have a much better attitude towards leagues...but, with California traffic...a league in that center on a weeknight would be absolutely impossible. It's a 20 minute drive on Sunday mornings but a minimum of 45 minutes on Mon.-Thurs. evenings...on top of the hour commute back from where I work.

[Mike White]

I don't mind the practice as much as the message it sends. Like Rob said...adjusting to lane conditions is becoming an ever more important part of the game so it's best to learn how to do it.

But...when you have a house that is worried about limiting league sizes so not to interfere with open bowling...when you have a house that is not giving a 1-pair cushion between open and league bowlers...and now a house that has just decided to stop oiling before leagues because it costs them the open bowling on those lanes for 30-45 minutes prior to league...it sends the message to league bowlers that despite the rhetoric and "Happy Birthday" wishes...the owner and management really look at leagues as more of a hinderance than a benefit.

The Brunswick house I bowl at with MikeW on Sundays seems to have a much better attitude towards leagues...but, with California traffic...a league in that center on a weeknight would be absolutely impossible. It's a 20 minute drive on Sunday mornings but a minimum of 45 minutes on Mon.-Thurs. evenings...on top of the hour commute back from where I work.

They might have a better attitude but that doesn't clean the approaches from what I assume was moonlight bowling on Saturday night.

Those approaches are killing me, to the point where I have completely altered my approach so I don't require a long slide, which in turn alters how I release the ball.

[Mike White]

I don't mind the practice as much as the message it sends. Like Rob said...adjusting to lane conditions is becoming an ever more important part of the game so it's best to learn how to do it.

All of the scratch leagues I bowled in during the 70's-80's were second shift leagues.

The deal now is you get so much help from a fresh oil pattern, that people become reliant on that help, and when it changes, people become "helpless".

Adjusting actually is becoming less of a requirement than is was in the past.

There is no need to adjust to the lanes if your opponent also doesn't just.

A win is a win even if you both bowl like crap.

Now if winning is important to you (it's not to everyone) you learn to adjust better than your competition.

[Bradski9]

It really varies from alley to alley, our bowling alley makes most of their money from the leagues, that is the case with a lot of smaller bowling alleys, some are in a good location in their town or city and get a lot of open bowlers.

[vdubtx]

My Tuesday night league is like this. OIl early afternoon and then let open bowlers or seniors warm up on the lanes before leagues start up at 6pm. Every week, we can see track marks down the lane. The house already skimps on oil, then to compound it with people removing more makes for some fun adjustment nights.

[Aslan]

My Tuesday night league is like this. OIl early afternoon and then let open bowlers or seniors warm up on the lanes before leagues start up at 6pm. Every week, we can see track marks down the lane. The house already skimps on oil, then to compound it with people removing more makes for some fun adjustment nights.

What also bothered me was the guy said, "We just a lot of oil down in the morning and it lasts throughout the day." So let me get this straight...if I bowl in the afternoon...I'm playing on flooded lanes...but if I come bowl after 9:30PM they are dry as hell???

That might explain why I had to move right of the 8-board with my most aggressive ball last night when I showed up for the Virtual Bowling Tour at about 4PM.


They might have a better attitude but that doesn't clean the approaches from what I assume was moonlight bowling on Saturday night.

Those approaches are killing me, to the point where I have completely altered my approach so I don't require a long slide, which in turn alters how I release the ball.

Yes, the downside to those lanes besides the older scoring system (although about 17 years newer than what you're used to at Arlington) is the approaches are hit or miss. I haven't noticed it AS much near the foul line...but the seating area at times feels like someone spilled soda and of course that gets on your shoes and either makes the shoes sticky or gets tracked onto the approach.

[circlecity]

You are completely wrong. Examine the history of Bowlmor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowlmor_Lanes

The company got started with one bowling center in Manhattan, and turned it into a night club style bowling alley, ant they made a TON of money.

That might not ultimately translate across the country.

Didn't they just close that alley not to long ago?

[Mike White]

Didn't they just close that alley not to long ago?

Yep, it said they lost their lease, not that the business was doing bad.