Question about forward/reverse pitch of the thumbhole??????

[Hammer]

When would you need reverse pitch in a thumbhole and when would forward pitch be better? It seems like with reverse pitch your thumb would come out faster through the release zone then it would with forward pitch. Forward pitch seems like it would make your thumb come out a bit later through the release zone. What would be the benefit of one over the other?

[Aslan]

Good article on this topic in Bowling This Month. Answers those questions.

Also, I'm sure Bowlversity has an article on it.

From what I recall, too much reverse and you might have a hard time not dropping it. Too much forward and the hand/thumb can get hung up in the ball.

[MICHAEL]

Good article on this topic in Bowling This Month. Answers those questions.

Also, I'm sure Bowlversity has an article on it.

From what I recall, too much reverse and you might have a hard time not dropping it. Too much forward and the hand/thumb can get hung up in the ball.

You are absolutely correct,,, I experimented with both forward and reverse!! I personally did not like the reverse do to the feeling of ball coming off the thumb too soon and ball control problems I had the ball repluged and put more forward pitch in it.... TOO Much forward pitch can be problematic also! Once you find that PERFECT PITCH, hang on to it!! Then go do some damage, and destroy the pins!!

[fortheloveofbowling]

The span, pitches in the fingers and thumb all are very important and can affect lots of things. Not only a matter of dropping or hanging up but rev rate, axis tilt, axis rotation etc. are influenced as well.

[MICHAEL]

The span, pitches in the fingers and thumb all are very important and can affect lots of things. Not only a matter of dropping or hanging up but rev rate, axis tilt, axis rotation etc. are influenced as well.

YES, I think we all agree with that!! LOL,,,, but I know from experimenting, PITCH of thumb hole is a VIP,,,, very important pitch!! (:)
Find what works best for YOU!

[fortheloveofbowling]

Now you know Michael that we can't all agree on anything and that is no fun anyway. These boards would go way down hill in participation if we all had that attitude. :)

[MICHAEL]

Good article on this topic in Bowling This Month. Answers those questions.

Also, I'm sure Bowlversity has an article on it.

From what I recall, too much reverse and you might have a hard time not dropping it. Too much forward and the hand/thumb can get hung up in the ball.

JUST a matter of time before YOUR Avatar, ( or real face ), appears on, "Bowling This Month"! I can see it NOW: Aslan, the Coach that teaches WOMEN of the manly kind... ((( I still can't get that fricken weird playboy, bunny out of my mind!!!))

YOU need a trip to the Midwest my good friend!! Where women are REAL!!

[Stormed1]

Pitches are based on several variables including span, flexability, dryness/moistness of hand. In the past i have used as much as 5/8 reverse on my 4 inch span. Currently I am at 1/4 left and 5/16 forward

[Mike White]

You only need a tight thumb hole when you let your hand come above the equator while swinging the ball.

The thumb shouldn't be used to support the weight of the ball.. Thats what your fingers/palm are for.

If your thumb hole can be loser, getting the exact pitch is less critical.

[Hammer]

You only need a tight thumb hole when you let your hand come above the equator while swinging the ball.

The thumb shouldn't be used to support the weight of the ball.. Thats what your fingers/palm are for.

If your thumb hole can be loser, getting the exact pitch is less critical.

I thought that the thumbhole had to be snug to control the ball in the swing. If you have to put in 7 pieces of tape to snug it up isn't that too loose? Don't the pros have snug thumbholes? When you read any bowling literature they seem to say to not have a thumbhole that is too big or loose. Most of the stuff I read seem to say to have a snug thumbhole instead of a too big one.

[Mike White]

I thought that the thumbhole had to be snug to control the ball in the swing. If you have to put in 7 pieces of tape to snug it up isn't that too loose? Don't the pros have snug thumbholes? When you read any bowling literature they seem to say to not have a thumbhole that is too big or loose. Most of the stuff I read seem to say to have a snug thumbhole instead of a too big one.

Their target audience is people with bad technique,

If you fix that, the need for tight thumb holes goes away.

If your span is right, and the right amount of reverse/forward pitch in the thumb, you never need to feel the back of the thumb hole, and therefore the hole can be as big as you want.

If you let the ball hang down rather than support it in the palm, you need the thumb to create friction in the hole to keep the ball from slipping.

Since the thumb product market is a gold mine, nobody has a financial incentive to fix your problem, they just want to sell you the treatment.

I have no tape in my strike ball, and one piece in the front of my spare ball.

I break my wrist down when I shoot spares, so I need a bit of friction to keep the thumb from slipping.

[Aslan]

It's fair to mention that thus far MWhite is the ONLY person I've ever met that subscribes to the "loose thumbhole" theory. Nearly every person I hear from…bowlers, pro shop guys, experienced bowlers, pros all insist on a snug thumb fit.

In my opinion, to have a loose thumbhole, like Mike mentioned, you need to support the weight of the ball with your hand/arm. That requires you to almost "cradle" the ball in your delivery. Almost like a thumbless bowler. That style, when I've dabbled with it, puts a tremendous amount of stress on your wrist and forearm. Even at 7-8lbs it was painful when I tried it.

[samdasham]

I'd enjoy knowing how to determine my span. My one ball is a Brunswick Eclipse reactive urethane from the latter part of the last century. It came in at 15 lbs 4 oz w/holes drilled for somebody else's fingers/thumb. I suspect they had a smaller span than I. Even after opening up the fingers and thumb my palm is nowhere near touching the ball.

If I insert my thumb then fingers to the second knuckle/close, or vice-versa, I can lift the ball w/my arm & walk around w/relaxed forearm. Throwing a spinner w/straight/broken wrist I have no issue hanging up. I feel if the span was lengthened and my palm touched the ball that it might be an issue.

As is my grip seems to hold the ball in place though I've wondered w/correct span if I could change the angle to a more relaxed reverse. Inserting thumb first it's plenty snug as I'm sportin' quite the callous betwixt the joint and knuckle. Even w/padded glove conventional grip w/fingers inserted at halfway w/knuckles me palm falls short of the ball.

It isn't uncomfortable though I think it could be more comfortable if that makes any sense.

[J Anderson]

I'd enjoy knowing how to determine my span. My one ball is a Brunswick Eclipse reactive urethane from the latter part of the last century. It came in at 15 lbs 4 oz w/holes drilled for somebody else's fingers/thumb. I suspect they had a smaller span than I. Even after opening up the fingers and thumb my palm is nowhere near touching the ball.

If I insert my thumb then fingers to the second knuckle/close, or vice-versa, I can lift the ball w/my arm & walk around w/relaxed forearm. Throwing a spinner w/straight/broken wrist I have no issue hanging up. I feel if the span was lengthened and my palm touched the ball that it might be an issue.

As is my grip seems to hold the ball in place though I've wondered w/correct span if I could change the angle to a more relaxed reverse. Inserting thumb first it's plenty snug as I'm sportin' quite the callous betwixt the joint and knuckle. Even w/padded glove conventional grip w/fingers inserted at halfway w/knuckles me palm falls short of the ball.

It isn't uncomfortable though I think it could be more comfortable if that makes any sense.

The best way to determine your span is to go to a good pro shop and have them measure it for you.

As for weight the easiest test is to curl your wrist while holding the ball with your arm straight down by your side; if you can hold that position for ten seconds the weight is fine. Alternate test is to hold the ball with wrist straight, elbow at 90º and try to hold for 10 seconds.

[samdasham]

Sure, though I prefer to learn as much as possible w/o a visit to the pro shop. Which in this neck of the woods is open around 5-5:30 on league night Thursdays & weekends as a rule. Nice guy as he drilled open my fingers and thumb[2X] along w/quick resurface to knock the polish off for a mere fifteen simoleons. I thought maybe I could measure me mitt and then compare that to the drilling I have holes of my fingers/thumb drilled and some other guy's hand span.

Funny little story for youse. I had the fingers and thumb opened up/redrilled. After a while the thumb hole tightened up. I go back, but on a different day and it's a different guy in the pro shop. I explain my plight and no problem as he takes a sanding disk on a hand grinder to it working it up and down. I try for a fit and still a wee bit snug. He takes after it again working the sandpaper pad up and down proclaiming not to stop however long it takes.

Wonderful, as after the second go round me thumb slides in slick as a whistle whilst still snug and noticeably warm from the friction of the pad working against the hole. I go straight home as that day doesn't jive w/my bowling schedule. A few hours later I try the thumb on for size.

Unlike Cinderella the magic slipper no longer fits and it's nowhere near the witching hour. Ah ha! The heat from the friction has expanded the thumb hole only to contract after cooling off to the mean average temperature of the sphere. Next day is Thursday, so back to the pro shop.

The original guy that drilled is there and I mention nothing about being there the previous day. Same spiel my thumb is too tight. He reaches for the electric grinder. Woa there hoss. Neat trick/illusion that was performed yesterday by your gumba, but I'm gonna need to be drilled out to a larger size.

To his credit he did upon inquiry of charge for services rendered refuse payment invoking gratis. Maybe I'll buy a ball from him.

As for the weight test they only manufacture up to 16 lbs and I can perform those exercises w/weak left hand. However, I'm a spinner and the difference lies in me hand/wrist/forearm twisting 180* hurling the ball w/holes looking back at me turning CCW. [there's a little tricep/ shoulder movement though hardly enough to qualify as a supporting role] On a vertical plane of 35-40* evah so roughly as I understand. {if perpendicular to the lane were 0*]

The h/w/f snap is a mite different than the two finger roll & the core isn't set up to help me spin the ball. That is the biggest difference I believe. Thanks for taking the time and sharing expertise in your response.

[Mike White]

It's fair to mention that thus far MWhite is the ONLY person I've ever met that subscribes to the "loose thumbhole" theory. Nearly every person I hear from…bowlers, pro shop guys, experienced bowlers, pros all insist on a snug thumb fit.

In my opinion, to have a loose thumbhole, like Mike mentioned, you need to support the weight of the ball with your hand/arm. That requires you to almost "cradle" the ball in your delivery. Almost like a thumbless bowler. That style, when I've dabbled with it, puts a tremendous amount of stress on your wrist and forearm. Even at 7-8lbs it was painful when I tried it.

Check this out bowlingchat.net (http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?p=80594#p80594) I'm not the ONLY person.

[Amyers]

Well Mike Congrats on finding someone somewhere that agrees with you.:rolleyes: In all actuality Mr. Merrell Is very knowledgeable and accomplished coach. I will say the discussions at Bowlingchat.net tend to be among more advanced and experienced bowlers who probably are not facing the issues of beginner bowlers who are gripping just without realizing it and aren't drilling out their thumbholes just to compensate that I see quite a bit it all depends on the situation