The addiction continues...added 2 DREAM BALLS to the Closet of Victory!!!

[Aslan]

:rolleyes:

Okay....so I'm bored...I'm frustrated with my game...and make the mistake of doing a little online window shopping.

I come across an Ebonite Challenge that was LITERALLY over $100 marked down. And I'm not taking where the site marks a ball up to like $226 MSRP and then tries to take $100 off. I'm talking about a $159 ball on sale for $59. 16lb, clearance. So I HAVE to do it. I mean...$79 off...$89 off...I got so many undrilled balls I just pass on those great deals...but THIS is $100 off!!! On a top of the line Ebonite (Bowl to Win) product!!! AND I WANT TO BOWL TO WIN!!!

So I make the purchase. Then I get an email a couple days later saying, "we made a mistake and that ball is sold out. would you like another ball?" So at this point...I'm not 100% sure what that means. ANY other ball? Same price? I figured, "well, I can't ask for the Fortera Exile for $59. That would be so absurd it would probably be insulting." So I mention that I really like the Aura Mystic...but I was more choosing the Challenge on price. And I have wanted the Aura Mystic since it was RELEASED!!! It was my DREAM ball!! I just couldn't justify $225 for it. Their response? "Would you like the Mystic for the same price as the Challenge?"

How could I turn that down!!? Even though I'm on the verge of being a hoarder episode...and I can no longer walk into my walk-in closest...THIS was my DREAM BALL for $59.95!!! So, I make the purchase (arrived today). And, I was able to get it in 15lbs instead of settling for the 16lb clearance special.

Then today...I was trying to asnwer a question someone had about a deal on bowling balls...and I just happened on the BLACK FRIDAY DEAL on bowlingball.com!! Now, NOT in the market for a ball...I repeat...NOT in the market for a ball...BUT...THERE IT WAS! Almost like bowlingball.com did it on purpose!! :confused: The Brunswick (Aslan's favorite brand) Fortera Exile!!! Okay...now...I've talked about this ball...I've WANTED this ball...and not only that...but my "skid/flip" ball right now is the lowly Brunswick Slingshot...whcih, as much as I love that ball (threw a 238 and 223 with it Monday), it has a good deal of "skid" but "flip" is questionable. With a 0.017 differential and a sub 160 PerfectScale rating...an angular back end is really shooting for the stars. So I NEED a skid/flip ball!! And...THERE...for $125 off for Black Friday...is my 2nd dream ball.

So, are these going to sit in my closet forever?? Will I be able to stop myself from drilling them and throwing them IMMEDIATELY!!? Yes and No.

The Mystic I've moved into 15lb arsenal #4. I was planning on leaving that spot open for a symmetric core solid...but putting the Mystic there will give me a hybrid coverstock that I don't have in that arsenal. Now, that arsenal is still a ways off (Currently on arsenal #1, still have 2 more in front of it)...but at least it jumps ahead of some balls at the back of the line that I don't have much use for in any of the arsenals right now.

And that is where the Fortera Exile comes in. I decided to get it at 15lbs (since I wasn't restricted on weight this time like I usually am with clearance balls). And it is going to join the Dark Encounter, Lethal Revolver, and the Rotogrip Asylum (that I won in the bowlingball.com contest) as the "skid/flip" replacement to the Slingshot. That gives me a Pearl coverstock for that arsenal which I didn't have. All I'll have to do when it's time to switch arsenals is get a plastic/urethane ball in 15lbs since I'm definitely not switching weights for spare shots. No bigee.

So WHEN is arsenal #2 coming??

Well, I am a numbers guy...so I switch arsenals based on the number of games I throw on that arsenal. I figure an arsenal is good for 600-900 games total. Now, that sort of assumes you'll use all of the balls equally...so roughly for a 4-ball arsenal...thats just under 200 games per ball on AVERAGE. Personally I think with proper care and maintenance...a ball lasts more like 300-350 games...which is about what my Frantic had on it when I retired it recently. So, my changeout game target from Arsenal #1 to Asrsenal #2 is 2000 games. Currently I am at like 1465. So I figure based on my practice and league schedule...I'm looking at late 2015....probably just after the next fall/winter season starts....or maybe just before in time for spring/summer sweeps.

For the current arsenal (Arsenal #1):
Arsenal Game Count = 1465

Ball Game Count =
- Brunswick Slingshot: 134
- Hammer Rhythm: 326
- Columbia Encounter (N): 126
- Columbia Encounter (A): 98
- 900Global Bullet Train: 15

* arsenal game count doesn't = the sum of ball game counts. Arsenal game count didn't start at 0. Future arsenals will be easier to translate since I plan to change out the entire arsenal at once.

So this arsenal is at 699 games..BUT...it's a 5-ball arsenal so I'm going to use each ball less (theoretically)...so I'll probably be closer to the 900/arsenal than the 600/arsenal.

[Amyers]

Aslan maybe you should consider donating your balls to a school looking to start a high school bowling team you could outfit the entire team.

[MICHAEL]

GOD,,,, YOU wear me OUT Aslan!!! And I am God!!!!
For Christ's sake!! keep the threads down to 30 words or less!
sometimes before finishing your LOOOONNNNG threads I break out in a Cold Sweat!!
ICEMAN the God!http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/nc_zps48p6ko32.gif (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/nc_zps48p6ko32.gif.html)

[Mudpuppy]

Cliff Notes: Aslan is still scared of spiders and won't be in KC to bowl on wood

[Aslan]

Aslan maybe you should consider donating your balls to a school looking to start a high school bowling team you could outfit the entire team.

Yeah...if we actually had a good youth bowling program/interest in this country.

And Ice...IF you were God...don't ya think you'd have at least average reading comprehension?? Come on. You're like a 14 year old with ADD. Read 3 sentences and then get distracted by a bumblebee out in the backyard....NOT GODLIKE.

[RobLV1]

This listing and analyzing arsenals is over-the-top, Aslan, even for you!

[Aslan]

This listing and analyzing arsenals is over-the-top, Aslan, even for you!

< removes gun from Rob's head that forced him to read it >

http://www.goodmeme.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/desktop-1406691097.png

[Blacksox1]

Aslan's arsenal should be; Exile, Aura, Asylum and a spare ball. Sell the rest, Ebay, donate or dumpster. Use modern equipment now, not in x years. Use the proceeds to go to a multi-day bowling camp. I am saying this to help you, and hope you take it that way Aslan. :)

[Amyers]

Aslan's arsenal should be; Exile, Aura, Asylum and a spare ball. Sell the rest, Ebay, donate or dumpster. Use modern equipment now, not in x years. Use the proceeds to go to a multi-day bowling camp. I am saying this to help you, and hope you take it that way Aslan. :)

This may be the best advice ever posted to this site

[Aslan]

Aslan's arsenal should be; Exile, Aura, Asylum and a spare ball. Sell the rest, Ebay, donate or dumpster. Use modern equipment now, not in x years. Use the proceeds to go to a multi-day bowling camp. I am saying this to help you, and hope you take it that way Aslan. :)

That advice MAY be sound.

However, it makes one big assumption...that bowling ball technology IS significant. This is what bowling ball companies WANT you to believe...that your 300-game isn't happening because YOU didn't buy THEIR NEW ball.

I have a bit of an issue with this.

1) Many bowlers immediately run out and buy a BYTE and a Hyper Cell and a Mastermind...and they DON'T get better.
2) Some balls (Storm Hy Road) are still considered the best balls out their...using older technology.
3) Quite frankly, that proposed arsenal doesn't make as much sense. It lacks a solid coverstock ball capable of reading the lanes early and cutting through heavy oil. I think it "could" work with Mystic being the first ball out of the bag, ball down to the Asylum and use the Exile as a skid/flip.

And, just as a sidenote, if I sold every ball except those 3...for $60 + $25 shipping...EVEN IF they all sold...thats just shy of $540. Not enough for Camp Bakkes or a trip to the USBC training center. And because many of them are 16lbs...I doubt I could sell them.

On that note, I was thinking that if I really liked moving down to 15lbs...I might consider dumping the 5 undrilled 16lbers. But even if I decided to do that...I don't think I'd get anything for them. Would a pro shop owner take them even in trade? If I walked in and said I wanted to get a new 15lb Rotogrip Sinister and offered them a 16lb Ebonite Warning Sign and a 16lb Track 706A...would they even 'consider' it?? I doubt it.

I know Blacksox is a big Roto/Storm guy that is always pushing their "next big thing"....and I appreciate the business side of bowling....but how many times have how many companies released the "next big sure thing" only to 6 months later release the "real, next, big, sure thing"? The bottom line is they have made only slight changes in technology and core design in recent years. And for an average bowler (or like me, a below average bowler)...those slight changes will not make a difference in our scores/averages. It's like a guy putting a spoiler on his Honda Civic and expecting it to perform like a formula 1 race car. Sure, a spoiler might be the 1-2mph difference that allows a formula 1 driver to win/lose a race...but it ain't making Heny Bob McCullough into Mario Andretti.

I watch ball release videos nowadays and just laugh at them. You can pull up a video of some pro talking up some new ball...then search for that pro talking about another ball and he's saying almost the exact same thing like 2 years later. They show guys like Mike Fagan throwing some ball perfectly, editing out non-strikes, and most idiots watch it and think, "OMG! I GOTTA HAVE THAT....look what IT does!" But the thing is...IT didn't do anything. Mike Fagan did.

I already ran an extensive experiment showing that by and large, bowling ball to bowling ball has very little effect on getting a ball to hit the pocket for a below average bowler with about a 250rpm rev rate. If Rotogrip or Storm want to prove me wrong and drill me up a "next sure thing" that will refute that evidence...I'll gladly test it...HONESTLY...and I'll even buy it from them if it refutes my theories/data.

I WANT PROOF. Proof that a fancy new ball will make ME a better bowler. Not proof that it'll make Mike Fagan a slightly better bowler. Thats all well and good....but I want proof that it makes ME a better bowler. Otherwise...it's just smoke and mirrors.

[Amyers]

Well first off the Asylum will handle about as much oil as your are likely to see you might need to adjust the cover stock if you are looking at a swamp but short of that your good there. I don't know that I would throw out what you have now but I would make a decision throw 15 throw 16 whatever and stick to it having multiple arsenals stuck in the closet for years is insane. Your 15lb line up sounds better to me but it may just be because it has balls I'm more familiar with in than its actually better.

I will say I think surface prep makes much more difference than solid, hybrid, pearl I do very much believe that if you took all three Hyroads and put the same surface prep on them you'd have three copies of the same ball. I think a lot of the ball stuff is overrated too but there are exceptions I see some balls that just have inherent different motions and shapes to the pocket than others but in reality there are really only three shapes out there. I think if you have those shapes covered on THS anyway your done. With sport patterns maybe a different story I haven't thrown enough or watched enough of those to see if that's really so.

Biggest mistake in this post "I already ran an extensive experiment showing that by and large, bowling ball to bowling ball has very little effect on getting a ball to hit the pocket for a below average bowler with about a 250rpm rev rate"

Nobody says a balls job is to get to the pocket your responsible for putting it in the pocket its the reaction once it gets there that the ball is responsible for not getting there.

[Aslan]

but I would make a decision throw 15 throw 16 whatever and stick to it having multiple arsenals stuck in the closet for years is insane.
The multiple arsenals at different weights wasn't the original design. I changed my original appraoch of throwing multiple weights simultaneously and that led to creating arsenals of all one weight...but I had 16lb AND 15lb balls....so I had to make them into unique arsenals.


Your 15lb line up sounds better to me but it may just be because it has balls I'm more familiar with in than its actually better.
I'm excited about it! (Ron M close your eyes...gonna obsess about my arsenal here a bit) The Asylum is a 900-series ball and I've seen a lot of good players throwing it. The Fortera Exile is a top of the line ball and actually built/marketed for skid/flip. The Dark Encounter is a solid version of the Encounter I'm already familiar with. Not sure what to expect from the Lethal Revolver. It's a symmetric core solid cover stock...so I'm thinking it'll behave like the Rhythm. But it'll probably go longer with a more aggressive backend.

The progression will "probably" be starting out with the Dark Encounter, balling down to the Lethal Revolver, then balling down to the Asylum...with the Fortera Exile being the ball for when the lanes have started to really break down and I need length. The other distinct possibility is that I end up starting with the Exile, then Dark Encounter, then Lethal Revolver, and using the Asylum for the drier/broken down conditions. Like I found out with the Bullet Train I just added...numbers are all good and great...but a more aggressive cover stock will often times trump the RGs, Diffs, and cores.

Right now, PerfectScale-wise, I have 4 balls > 200 and the Slingshot at 157. The new arsenal will have 3 balls > 200 with the Asylum at 194. So it'll be an overall slightly more aggressive line-up from the PerfectScale standpoint (if you put any stock in that).

The only questionable thing about the arsenal (besides whether the Fortera Exile will be ball #1 or ball #4 in the progression) is whether there is enough difference between the Lethal Revolver and Asylum. These balls are closer in specs than I'd "like" them to be...and if the Asylum's coverstock is more aggressive...it could end up being a ball with nearly an identical track...but we'll see. It's all about throwing them and seeing what they do. The numbers can only guide the selection process.


I will say I think surface prep makes much more difference than solid, hybrid, pearl
Agree and disagree. One thing I've noticed with the Pearl Encounters is that while the surface change has made a minor change in it's track to the pocket...a Pearl is a Pearl. You can't make a Pearl into a solid by sanding it. I've brought it down to 500 abralon and sanded it with wet/dry 1000 grit sandpaper...about as much surface as you can do...and it changed it's track ONE board. It's just NOT designed to do what a solid cover does. If anything, sanding down a pearl coverstock will cause it to burn out too early (Rob might be able to comment on this if he didn't take my advice and is still reading this). The coverstock is VERY important. My Slingshot arguably has the most aggressive move to the pocket of my entire arsenal...and it's a PerfecScale of 157...an entry level ball. But...it's a polished pearl cover...so it saves up energy. I "think" Rob would agree with me on that. But if I polished the beejezus out of my Rhythm...I doubt I'd get that skid/flip reaction...because it's solid cover isn't designed to do that. I'd likely just make it go a little longer before it started it's turn.


Biggest mistake in this post "I already ran an extensive experiment showing that by and large, bowling ball to bowling ball has very little effect on getting a ball to hit the pocket for a below average bowler with about a 250rpm rev rate"

Nobody says a balls job is to get to the pocket your responsible for putting it in the pocket its the reaction once it gets there that the ball is responsible for not getting there.

What I mean was...all 3 balls followed similar paths to the pocket and covered a similar number of boards. Many of these ball videos give the false impression that if you buy their next big thing...you can move into the left gutter and start playing a power game...and thats NOT going to happen. You're still stuck playing outside or up the track until you perfect a pro style release.

RobM might refute this and say he plays the inside line and doesn't have a huge amount of revs. But from what I've seen...Rob plays more "the middle"...not the "inside". He's throwing up 15-20, using the heavy oil area to build up energy...then it makes a slight move when it hits the dry. He's not standing left gutter and throwing it at the 6-board waiting for that L-shape snap like a Belmo. He doesn't have the revs for that (very few do...especially keeping their thumb in the ball).

So, I agree the bowler is what gets the ball to the pocket...not the ball. But the ball manufacturers tend to overplay what the ball will actually do differently and makes the bowler believe the ball can help them open up the lane more than it can (in most cases). I thought an assymetric core, pro-performance ball like the Encounter would allow me to move inside and play a power game. It did NOT. The lowly mid-level performance Rhythm STILL kicked the Encounter's tail in terms of cutting through oil and making a move to the pocket and covering more boards. And I believe...it's simply because the Encounter's stronger core...was no match for the Rhythm's stronger solid cover. It's also why the Storm BYTE underperformed when all the people throwing SYNCs bought it. Because the SYNC was still stronger (overall). The BYTE went longer than they expected. It left washouts. And on shorter patterns...it moved TOO aggressively when it encountered the dry. Coverstocks trump just about everything else in terms of ball movement...at least from the experimentation I've done using a lower rev rate. Now...at an MWhite rev rate...maybe things change a bit...and they probably do.

[Amyers]

Well for me anyway I'm not sure I would want anything stronger/earlier than my Asylum for me anyway the Fortera looks interesting too me and I have really had an itch to try one of the strong pearl go long and come back balls because I've never had that kind of reaction but I have held off because I'm afraid I'll find out the same lesson you learned and it will look the same when I throw it. I've never seen anyone using an Encounter period the Lethal Revolver worries me there are three of them sitting around on the racks of house balls at my home lanes if it was a very good ball with it being recent vintage I can't imagine someone not picking them up. If your thinking of using the Asylum as a dry lane/breakdown ball I think your going to be surprised there

[Aslan]

If your thinking of using the Asylum as a dry lane/breakdown ball I think your going to be surprised there

We'll see. You may be right. I thought the Bullet Train would be a good replacement for the Frantic.

Storm Frantic: symmetric core, RG = 2.53, Diff. = 0.045, 1500 surface, hybrid cover stock
900Global Bullet Train: symmetric core, RG = 2.539, Diff. = 0.040, 2500 surface, hybrid cover stock

I mean...by the NUMBERS...nearly IDENTICAL balls.

Then you throw them....the Frantic goes MUCH longer than the Bullet Train. Not even close.

Now, when I say close...it's generally the same track, etc... But the Bullet Train moves way sooner than the Frantic. And the pro shop guy that drilled the Bullet Train explained that it was simply the cover stock. The Frantic uses Storms mid-range/intermediate level cover...the Bullet Train had a much stronger S79 Neat cover. Both hybrids...but very different. And suddenly...the Bullet Train went from being the ball I'd use as a 4th ball down option...to the ball I start with on fresh oil. Go figure.

[Amyers]

Well I'm not an expert on 900 global don't see a whole of them here but according to what I looked at the cover on the bullet train is S79 even the new Moxie is only listed at S78 I'm guessing that the higher number represent stronger covers (could be wrong) the Bullet Train has one of the strongest covers 900 ever put on a ball. The 2500 finish vs. the polished finish on the Frantic probably has something to do with it being earlier.

Core plays a role but you have to consider the strength of the cover along with it.

The Frantic was intended for light to medium/light oil the Bullet Train was intended for heavy to medium/heavy oil

One of the reasons I have no want to purchase a ball that I haven't seen someone who's game I know throw the ball.

[Aslan]

The 2500 finish vs. the polished finish on the Frantic probably has something to do with it being earlier.
Actually, the Bullet Train should have went longer with the slightly larger RG and higher abralon finish (higher number = more polished) and should flare less with the slightly lower Diff. But, numbers don't always tell the story.

[Perrin]

Actually, the Bullet Train should have went longer with the slightly larger RG and higher abralon finish (higher number = more polished) and should flare less with the slightly lower Diff. But, numbers don't always tell the story.

Numbers always tell the story the problem is the ball companies don't give the numbers that we would need to do an actual ball to ball comparison.

the Coverstock coefficient of Friction, rate of absorption, and etc #'s that actually tell you how the cover interracts with the lane and oil on it.

[Mike White]

Actually, the Bullet Train should have went longer with the slightly larger RG and higher abralon finish (higher number = more polished) and should flare less with the slightly lower Diff. But, numbers don't always tell the story.

Ball surface, and oil pattern effect the length of the skid phase.

The dynamic numbers have more to do with the hook phase.

A ball with a rough surface, and a high RG can have a short skid, and a long hook phase.

Likewise a ball with a polished surface, and a low RG can have a long skid phase, and a short hook phase.

[Amyers]

The frantic is 1500 polished the bullet train 2500 the polish on the frantic means it has less surface probably closer to 5500

[Mike White]

The frantic is 1500 polished the bullet train 2500 the polish on the frantic means it has less surface probably closer to 5500

Also consider the Frantic has hundreds of games on it, while the bullet train has few.

A synthetic lane will smooth the surface of the ball over time.

Even if both balls started the same, the Frantic would be much smoother due to use.

The exception is when the frantic hits an area on the lane it's not supposed to, like bouncing out of the gutter, into the pin setter.

[Aslan]

The exception is when the frantic hits an area on the lane it's not supposed to, like bouncing out of the gutter, into the pin setter.

Yup. Been there, done that.

Stupid 7-pins. :(

Or the guages in my Rhythm from getting stuck in the ball return at Fountain Bowl and the time it came into contact with the heating element in my homemade dehydrator.