You can't handle the truth!!

[MICHAEL]

Have a question about league sheets! When I first started bowling the seniors league 4 years ago bowling was completely new to me!
My question is in regards to how THIS Seniors league keeps weekly records. Have any of you out there heard of this method used for weekly standings

1. First it has team standings, win’s and loses ect. It’s reality, real!

2. Second it has Season to date individual achievements, it’s not real!

I am told its set up by AMF for seniors to ONLY give ONE other category other than averages, you can only have your name in ONE category! In my case on average, as of last week, I am in second place, TEMPORARYLY! That’s accurate, but then under individual achievements, They gave me the High Series so far this year, 693, (which I do own), but do not show me holding the high game scratch 280, nor the High game Handicap, nor High series handicap.

This senior’s league use to have the achievements reflects REALITY? Is this something new, or do other house have this Special Olympic type Your all winners, and no one can have more than ONE listing, in achievements other than high average!

When I talked to some of the seniors about the totally make believe achievements, they didn’t even know it was wrong, and agreed with me it should not be that way.

With that kind of logic,, why not just rotate who is truly in first FRICKEN PLACE each week so every team feels SPECIAL!!

I went to the lady that runs the league, for AMF, she said it was the program she got from AMF. I said it was CRAZY! What’s the reason for an achievement sheet, if it’s all make believe!

Just wondering if anyone else ever come across such a thing.

this league is non sanctioned, mainly because they don't want to pay for the sanctioned membership, cost. They do give awards out and have a nice dinner at the end of the season, which is in the second week of December I believe. They do give nice little trophies, but ONLY ONE PER PERSON! I am ok with that one trophy per person, but the data sheet should reflect reality!

Remember this is the fist league I bowled at 62. I have seveal people I like a lot on this league, they are the ones that encouraged me to go sanctioned 4 years ago.

[RobLV1]

Sorry Michael, but it's not an AMF thing. Virtually every league in which I've ever bowled is set up like this. In terms of individual achievements, you only get your name in one category, and the highest in terms of placement (first place vs. second place for example) trumps the lower placement, and, in most leagues, scratch scores trump handicap scores, and series scores trump individual game scores. What this means is that if you have the highest scratch game (1st), the highest scratch series (1st), the highest handicap game (1st), and the highest handicap series (1st), the only place that your name will appear is the the high scratch series. If, at some point, someone else beats your high scratch series score, but you still own the high scratch game score, then your name will disappear off of the high scratch series (even though you're still second), and appear first for high scratch game. This may seem strange, but when you think about it, it gives the most bowlers the chance to see their names in the individual achievement section of the league sheet and prevents one individual from dominating all of the individual achievements because of one good week. This is why most bowlers consider the high individual AVERAGE standings to be the most important category listed.

[MICHAEL]

thanks for the reply,,, I guess this only applies to senior league at SOME establishments. Gladstone lanes, Burnswick, has several senior leagues, and they don't follow this format, they actually show reality! HUMMMM.... I personally would not feel like I deserved a position, if I didn't actually own it!! LOL..... O Well ... I had NO IDEA, being pretty new to this wonderful sport, that this was the norm.

Is this only true for seniors?

I completely understand giving ONLY ONE AWARD to each person at the end of the season, This summer (short league) I won First place team, and high series, even though I had other categories! I only got two trophies.

WHAT's wrong with the TRUTH on the sheets?? What wrong with America,,,, is it that important to see your name at the top of a sheet knowing is all MADE-BELIEVE? LOL

I wish when I ran track in collage, they would have give me Frist place in an event, if the person that beat me, already won anther event!! (:)
I guess bowling is SPECIAL...:rolleyes:

[vdubtx]

Every league I have ever bowled in only shows one category for individual achievements. It is part of rules that and individual can only "win" one category. We typically have prize for 1st and 2nd of each category from prize fund.

[MICHAEL]

Yes, went back and looked at the sheets and you seem to be correct! I'ts just not RIGHT! I myself would like to see on the data sheet, the real standings in regards to all categories.

I guess I am different, I want the TRUTH,,,, I CAN HANDLE IT!! LOL

[MICHAEL]

Every league I have ever bowled in only shows one category for individual achievements. It is part of rules that and individual can only "win" one category. We typically have prize for 1st and 2nd of each category from prize fund.

You know, I understand the winning ONE category, but why not during the year have the data sheet show the TRUTH, who really owns each category?

I guess Iceman is slow,,, I had no idea it was unreality on the sheets, except under the individual stats where you name is located along with teammates.

Do most of you think this is RIGHT?? Even if I was not holding one position due to maybe 3 or 4 great bowlers, I would still want Reality? I don't get it? Your thoughts??????

[MICHAEL]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/breelyn/nobody-cares.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/breelyn/media/nobody-cares.jpg.html)

[J Anderson]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/breelyn/nobody-cares.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/breelyn/media/nobody-cares.jpg.html)

Not every standing sheet is the same: http://www.leaguesecretary.com/LeagueFilesStandings.aspx?LID=47090

My guess is that the ones only show your name once are set up to make it easier at the end of the season to figure out who gets the award.

Are you really so selfish that you want to take every award at the end of the year? Is your ego so fragile that that you need to see the name Michael Pence at the top of every category?

The Truth: League bowling depends on every bowler feeling that they have a chance to win. This is why most leagues use handicaps. This is why most leagues limit the number of individual awards that one person can win.

[MICHAEL]

Not every standing sheet is the same: http://www.leaguesecretary.com/LeagueFilesStandings.aspx?LID=47090

My guess is that the ones only show your name once are set up to make it easier at the end of the season to figure out who gets the award.

Are you really so selfish that you want to take every award at the end of the year? Is your ego so fragile that that you need to see the name Michael Pence at the top of every category?

The Truth: League bowling depends on every bowler feeling that they have a chance to win. This is why most leagues use handicaps. This is why most leagues limit the number of individual awards that one person can win.

YES I am big on REALITY!! I have played sports my whole life! Did you see my example on Track and Field?? Its not being selfish,,, Wow,,, its REALITY!

I want to know who truly holds what category? It doesn't bother me to not be in first, in all categories, just as long as I hold 3/4 of them ICEGOD IS HAPPY.

HELLO guy walking around bragging about how ( YOU HOLD THE High Scratch Score),,, Reality check, Icegod holds it with his 280, not you with your 279! In fact my
name and 280 is not even listed with the 3 scores showing.... THIS is WRONG!

bowling stats, is not like not sharing the WATER, OR FOOD, when on an Island shipped wrecked,,, I am big on sharing many things,,, but SIMPLE BOWING STATS, to inflate peoples ego that don't deserve it???? That's a horse of a different color.

Iceman shares MANY things with people in need! But to need you ego inflated by thinking you hold a category in on the bowling stat sheet, is JUST WRONG!

What other sport does this?

HELLO... REALITY CHECK!

I have to go through all the individual stats by each persons name to FIND THE TRUTH! Sometimes the TRUTH IS HARD TO FIND, but the Truth is out There!!

ICE, can handle the TRUTH!

I understand the AWARDS thing, but stat's are stats!!!!

[RobLV1]

Here's a different perspective for you to consider. Back when I was a Special Education teacher in middle school, I always had a sign up on my wall for my students. It read, "Whoever said that life is fair?". Perhaps it is because of your newness to the sport. Many years ago I took all of my bowling trophies and threw them in the garbage. As a Christian, Michael, certainly you know how little trophies matter to the greater picture. How about a little Christian humility and thoughts about how many other people are feeling good because they get to see their names under individual achievements, rather than just feeling bad because your name is not listed enough?

[vdubtx]

FIND THE TRUTH!

http://cdn.omgfacts.com/2014/4/24/a70b6a3dec655de7d504cbe8c9e4dab8.jpg

[MICHAEL]

Here's a different perspective for you to consider. Back when I was a Special Education teacher in middle school, I always had a sign up on my wall for my students. It read, "Whoever said that life is fair?". Perhaps it is because of your newness to the sport. Many years ago I took all of my bowling trophies and threw them in the garbage. As a Christian, Michael, certainly you know how little trophies matter to the greater picture. How about a little Christian humility and thoughts about how many other people are feeling good because they get to see their names under individual achievements, rather than just feeling bad because your name is not listed enough?

My Middle son is a Special Education teacher! I am very proud of how he has taken on a job that many teachers reject!

First off you assume I am a Christian,, LOL,,, mud and ICE are Rationalist!

Secondly are bowlers like special education students? Most other sports, the stats are real!

This goes beyond me..... This is about reality, and the truth! Being able to look at a league and know where everyone REALLY STANDS?

If I didn't own a category in anything, I wouldn't want it! ((ITS A LIE)),, as in NOT TURE!

Are bowlers ego's so fragile that make believe becomes reality, or they won't play!! LOL NOT ME!!!! Makes me work harder!!

Good thing Vegas doesn't keep its stat's that way,,,, ( make believe)! ;)

[MICHAEL]

what about scratch leauges? Does their stats sheets only allow one category for each bowlier. So, in other words you can't hold High game, and High series?
Or is it just on all handicap leagues...

AGAIN: I am in ok with the ONE trophy thing, ( but its still not right IMHA)

But,,,, MY GOD man,,,what's wrong with stats reflecting realitly?

IS ICEGOD different??? I wouldn't quit a league just because one guy holds all the stats. HELL NO,,, I would number one, know who really held the stats, and number 2, it would give me incentive to want to knock him/her off!

Its in some ways like the special Olympics when the participants cross the finish line judges run up to each of them and give them all a ribbion! I get that Completely.

But not so special bowlers need that too???? I don't get that???

[vdubtx]

I guess you are different in that not everyone needs to see their name at the top of the list. Not everyone needs an ego stroke. Be happy with being the top at one category on the list and know that you have the other in your own mind.

[Mike White]

what about scratch leauges? Does their stats sheets only allow one category for each bowlier. So, in other words you can't hold High game, and High series?
Or is it just on all handicap leagues...

AGAIN: I am in ok with the ONE trophy thing, ( but its still not right IMHA)

But,,,, MY GOD man,,,what's wrong with stats reflecting realitly?

IS ICEGOD different??? I wouldn't quit a league just because one guy holds all the stats. HELL NO,,, I would number one, know who really held the stats, and number 2, it would give me incentive to want to knock him/her off!

Its in some ways like the special Olympics when the participants cross the finish line judges run up to each of them and give them all a ribbion! I get that Completely.

But not so special bowlers need that too???? I don't get that???

Check your league rules. It should say in there if you're only allowed one category, and how they are prioritized.

If you don't like it, bring it up at the meeting so people can vote on it.

[MICHAEL]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/a70b6a3dec655de7d504cbe8c9e4dab8_zps9123084e.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/a70b6a3dec655de7d504cbe8c9e4dab8_zps9123084e.jpg.h tml)

Mommy,,, Mommy,,, they didn't give my high scratch in toddlers bowling!!!

Mother: ( well you didn't have the highest REAL score honey),

Baby: ( I don't care, I don't CARE,,, mommy,,, I am going to quit,,,)

Mother: ( OOO,,, Johnny,,, mommy going to fix it next week, we will make it so that NO one person can have more then ONE High Stat!)

Baby: (Mommy I love you!)

Mother: ( mommy going to fix it)

The above scenario is what's wrong with America...... :p WAY TO MANY CRY babies,,, Man/Woman UP!!! LOL

[Mike White]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/a70b6a3dec655de7d504cbe8c9e4dab8_zps9123084e.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/a70b6a3dec655de7d504cbe8c9e4dab8_zps9123084e.jpg.h tml)

Mommy,,, Mommy,,, they didn't give my high scratch in toddlers bowling!!!

Mother: ( well you didn't have the highest REAL score honey),

Baby: ( I don't care, I don't CARE,,, mommy,,, I am going to quit,,,)

Mother: ( OOO,,, Johnny,,, mommy going to fix it next week, we will make it so that NO one person can have more then ONE High Stat!)

Baby: (Mommy I love you!)

Mother: ( mommy going to fix it)

The above scenario is what's wrong with America...... :p WAY TO MANY CRY babies,,, Man/Woman UP!!! LOL


What is worse, crying, or crying about crying?

What is RIGHT about America is you get the opportunity to vote on the issue.

Go to the league meetings, explain your position, and have people vote on it.

IF people don't agree with you, come back here and cry, quit, or "Man up".

[Mike White]

My Middle son is a Special Education teacher! I am very proud of how he has taken on a job that many teachers reject!

First off you assume I am a Christian,, LOL,,, mud and ICE are Rationalist!

Secondly are bowlers like special education students? Most other sports, the stats are real!

This goes beyond me..... This is about reality, and the truth! Being able to look at a league and know where everyone REALLY STANDS?

If I didn't own a category in anything, I wouldn't want it! ((ITS A LIE)),, as in NOT TURE!

Are bowlers ego's so fragile that make believe becomes reality, or they won't play!! LOL NOT ME!!!! Makes me work harder!!

Good thing Vegas doesn't keep its stat's that way,,,, ( make believe)! ;)


So you think the Royals had no business being in the world series?

They didn't win their division.

They got in via a made up wild card.

[Aslan]

The Truth: League bowling depends on every bowler feeling that they have a chance to win. This is why most leagues use handicaps. This is why most leagues limit the number of individual awards that one person can win.
Absolutely correct.


,,, but SIMPLE BOWING STATS, to inflate peoples ego that don't deserve it???? That's a horse of a different color.

I understand the AWARDS thing, but stat's are stats!!!!
Also agree with that...


Are bowlers ego's so fragile that make believe becomes reality, or they won't play!!
Yup. Bowlers have the most fragile egos of any sport on Earth.

[MICHAEL]

So you think the Royals had no business being in the world series?

They didn't win their division.

They got in via a made up wild card.


As I hope you KNOW the reason Wild card came about is to reward teams that were HOT, doing well toward the end of the season! This is not even a good analogy Mikey!!! Also it brought in a bunch more $$$$$$$!

I would find it refreshing to look at stats, and know they are REAL! What's wrong with that?? I don't gave a rats behind about the winning money, or trophies,,,, well,,, at least the money!

I just want to look at a status sheet, and see The Truth?

[MICHAEL]

What is worse, crying, or crying about crying?

What is RIGHT about America is you get the opportunity to vote on the issue.

Go to the league meetings, explain your position, and have people vote on it.

IF people don't agree with you, come back here and cry, quit, or "Man up".

what in the heck do you THINK I am DOING??? I have cried to the league president, to the lady that runs the league, even sent Obama a shot note!
I have fricken tears ALL OVER THE NKC AMF! They had to call that company that wet vac's water damaged properties!!

I was surprised to know that everyone I talked to DIDN"T know it was set up that way!

Sure they all knew that only one award per-category, but they all thought it was real stats!! GEEEEEE!!!!

It's to late now, season ends around Christmas..... Ba,,,, humbug!!!

On that league, funny, Mikey,,, even some of the lower score bowlers agreed with me,,, "Its just not reality!" and they didn't know it??

not ONE I informed thought it was right!

I will bring it up next time!

I just want a stat's sheet that truly reflects reality!

[Aslan]

what in the heck do you THINK I am DOING??? I have cried to the league president, to the lady that runs the league, even sent Obama a shot note!
I have fricken tears ALL OVER THE NKC AMF! They had to call that company that wet vac's water damaged properties!!

I will bring it up next time!


Why do I have a feeling the league secretary hides under her table when Iceman walks in the center with a piece of paper in his hand?

http://cdn2.designbyhumans.com/product/design/u692715/pr50134-600x600-b-p-ffffff.jpg

[axslinger]

On our league my name shows up for second high series this season, high game for season, high game for last week and 2nd high series for last week so it shows up 4 times on the standing sheet. Not sure if that's what you're referring to but that's what it shows.

[MICHAEL]

On our league my name shows up for second high series this season, high game for season, high game for last week and 2nd high series for last week so it shows up 4 times on the standing sheet. Not sure if that's what you're referring to but that's what it shows.

The last week, High Game, and Series is something that The Gladstone Brunswick lanes does for both men and women.
That's a nice extra.

What I am talking about is the season to date best scores in all categories. In most leagues you could not occupy the second high series, and high game at the same time, but you could hold High Average, and one of the two you held.

This is about honor, Justice, and Reality? I thought Reality TV was a HUGE HIT??? Why not reality in regards to bowling data sheets??

Would Bowling be better if it was REAL in regards to Who's you DADDY on the lanes...

YES!!!!

[MICHAEL]

Why do I have a feeling the league secretary hides under her table when Iceman walks in the center with a piece of paper in his hand?

http://cdn2.designbyhumans.com/product/design/u692715/pr50134-600x600-b-p-ffffff.jpg

funny,,, you mention that! The sectary said she agreed with me, alone with a half dozen I mentioned it too on that seniors league!

I am learning more and MORE as time goes by, and this is just ONE thing I will bring up in the future at pre-League meeting so help me god!

It's time for bowlers to face reality,,,, NUMBERS DO HAVE MEANING!!

If you don't like the numbers, GET better!! Huuuuuu,,,RA!!!

[MICHAEL]

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/imagine686868/e8ecde36-fa87-43a1-87fb-c2fa269f7f26_zpsa15210e8.jpg (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/imagine686868/media/e8ecde36-fa87-43a1-87fb-c2fa269f7f26_zpsa15210e8.jpg.html)

[fortheloveofbowling]

I understand what your saying Michael. Our league sheet shows the high scores for the year period. At the end of the year you can only win one individual award though. That is the way it should be. Or maybe we should stop keeping score like some crappy kids soccer league so nobody feels bad. Or maybe everybody gets a trophy for each category. Congratulations sir here is your 31st place average trophy!

[Mike White]

what in the heck do you THINK I am DOING??? I have cried to the league president, to the lady that runs the league, even sent Obama a shot note!
I have fricken tears ALL OVER THE NKC AMF! They had to call that company that wet vac's water damaged properties!!

I was surprised to know that everyone I talked to DIDN"T know it was set up that way!

Sure they all knew that only one award per-category, but they all thought it was real stats!! GEEEEEE!!!!

It's to late now, season ends around Christmas..... Ba,,,, humbug!!!

On that league, funny, Mikey,,, even some of the lower score bowlers agreed with me,,, "Its just not reality!" and they didn't know it??

not ONE I informed thought it was right!

I will bring it up next time!

I just want a stat's sheet that truly reflects reality!

In the league I shot 300 in recently, the high scratch game award went to someone with a 299.

My score didn't qualify because the rules said you had to have bowled 75% of the scheduled games, and I was a mid season replacement for someone who was injured in car accident.

The Rules Be The Rules.

[Mike White]

thanks for the reply,,, I guess this only applies to senior league at SOME establishments. Gladstone lanes, Burnswick, has several senior leagues, and they don't follow this format, they actually show reality! HUMMMM.... I personally would not feel like I deserved a position, if I didn't actually own it!! LOL..... O Well ... I had NO IDEA, being pretty new to this wonderful sport, that this was the norm.

Is this only true for seniors?

I completely understand giving ONLY ONE AWARD to each person at the end of the season, This summer (short league) I won First place team, and high series, even though I had other categories! I only got two trophies.

WHAT's wrong with the TRUTH on the sheets?? What wrong with America,,,, is it that important to see your name at the top of a sheet knowing is all MADE-BELIEVE? LOL

I wish when I ran track in collage, they would have give me Frist place in an event, if the person that beat me, already won anther event!! (:)
I guess bowling is SPECIAL...:rolleyes:


Ok how about the high jump, long jump, pole vault, etc.

If one person has the top two distances, or heights, do they award them 1st, and 2nd place?

[Mike White]

what in the heck do you THINK I am DOING??? I have cried to the league president, to the lady that runs the league, even sent Obama a shot note!
I have fricken tears ALL OVER THE NKC AMF! They had to call that company that wet vac's water damaged properties!!

I was surprised to know that everyone I talked to DIDN"T know it was set up that way!

Sure they all knew that only one award per-category, but they all thought it was real stats!! GEEEEEE!!!!

It's to late now, season ends around Christmas..... Ba,,,, humbug!!!

On that league, funny, Mikey,,, even some of the lower score bowlers agreed with me,,, "Its just not reality!" and they didn't know it??

not ONE I informed thought it was right!

I will bring it up next time!

I just want a stat's sheet that truly reflects reality!

Maybe they didn't really agree with you, but wanted to pacify the crazy person waving their arms about.

[MICHAEL]

Ok how about the high jump, long jump, pole vault, etc.

If one person has the top two distances, or heights, do they award them 1st, and 2nd place? Obviously Mike, you have not ran track, dare I say never held a pole, (pole vault) in your little bowling hands... LOL

Wow,,, WHAT a lame comparison!! They ,,,,, the high jump, long jump and pole vault have only ONE winner, the guy/gal that jumps the furthest, or highest! Second place would be the person closest to First place, and third would be person closest to 2nd place. Everyone gets what they deserve

It would be like a Pole vault of 1 foot higher then the guy behind him, but because the pole vaulter, won the long jump just before his vault, , he could not even place in that event,,, that he in reality won, due to the One Event Ruling that is used in bowling... It sucks! Plain, and SIMPLE!

I remember running track where I won in many track meets the high hurdles, 880 yard dash, and mile relay,,, guess what they all showed on the stat sheets.

try again mikey!!! LOL Compare apples to Apples!!

giving out ONE Award in bowling for each positions is ok, ( I guess ) but Stats should be accurate on the sheets! I want to know who the real best bowler are and what their records to date are. NOT Alice in Wonder Score land!

[RobLV1]

Maybe they didn't really agree with you, but wanted to pacify the crazy person waving their arms about.

OMG, Mike and I agree yet again!

[MICHAEL]

In the league I shot 300 in recently, the high scratch game award went to someone with a 299.

My score didn't qualify because the rules said you had to have bowled 75% of the scheduled games, and I was a mid season replacement for someone who was injured in car accident.

The Rules Be The Rules.

That makes sense to me?? Good rule!!! Nothing to do with stats sheets that are total B.S.!!! LOL

[MICHAEL]

OMG, Mike and I agree yet again!

I NEVER thought I would see the day that YOU ROB, sucked up to Mikey!!!! Wow,,,,, the end must be near!!!

[MICHAEL]

Maybe they didn't really agree with you, but wanted to pacify the crazy person waving their arms about.

I will forgive you THIS TIME for calling me a CrAZy person mike! BEWARE,,,, like our famous X president once said, (
George Bushwack),,, Call me crazy once shame on you, Call me crazy a second time and ,,, and SHAME ON YOU!!! , that president
could fu#k up a wonderful dream!!! :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM

Sometimes Mikey, I think you can too!!! Not that I ever,, EVER dream of you, haven't had a
nightmare in a long time!

Speaking of Nightmares,,, wait till Mud, and Ice get you on the wood in Plattsburg, June 13th!!! Its not going to be pretty bud!!!

I hope you bring your shadow with you, wouldn't be quit the same without what's his name........:rolleyes:

The bikers do want revenge!!! This time will be different, Icegod will be completely RESTED,,, no 1400 mile trip on the bike, with no sleep the night before!!

[classygranny]

Around here my understanding is that the lanes prepare the sheets according to how the league wants to see it. My Friday league posts the standings the way Michael wants to see them. Usually this means one or two of us are in all the Women's scratch categories (they show 2 or 3 places for each category) and then at the end of the season, the awards are limited to one per person. The leagues theory is that then they don't know who will be winning the award until the end of the season, as it is never posted. My Monday league posts the sheet as if it would be like winning the award, only show your name in the highest category, even if you have the highest score in another category.

As long as everyone knows what it is...I don't see the big deal. Both are correct. One is what is really being bowled and the other is what is going to be awarded according to the rules.

[MICHAEL]

Around here my understanding is that the lanes prepare the sheets according to how the league wants to see it. My Friday league posts the standings the way Michael wants to see them. Usually this means one or two of us are in all the Women's scratch categories (they show 2 or 3 places for each category) and then at the end of the season, the awards are limited to one per person. The leagues theory is that then they don't know who will be winning the award until the end of the season, as it is never posted. My Monday league posts the sheet as if it would be like winning the award, only show your name in the highest category, even if you have the highest score in another category.

As long as everyone knows what it is...I don't see the big deal. Both are correct. One is what is really being bowled and the other is what is going to be awarded according to the rules.


the only one that is correct is the stats that present the real numbers! I can't believe its even an issue??? It's beyond me??? I am flabber gased!

I really don't care, personally who gets the fake awards at the end, but it is import to know real standing to me! I mean isn't it enough to have a handicap system of scoring?

why not real stat sheets, and at the end of the season, award the what ever, ( money/trophies ) to who ever didn't really deserve it?

That does not bother me at all!

Lets just keep it REAL, it's what make this country what it is today!! Work Hard and get the Job done, don't ask for give me stuff, or things your
really didn't earn.

God Bless America, and may the BEST MAN/Woman be AWARDED their due REWARD! Amen

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a339/s0lution/USAFlag.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/user/s0lution/media/USAFlag.gif.html)

Icegod has had a HUGE learning experience on this subject! You can bet every league in the future, I will bring this up at the meeting! Who would stand up and say
" Sorry Iceman, but I want the fake stuff, not the real stats"!

Not an Full Blooded American in my opinion, maybe some damn communist would!!

[Mike White]

That makes sense to me?? Good rule!!! Nothing to do with stats sheets that are total B.S.!!! LOL

The point was that the sheet didn't represent reality, until after reality was filtered by the rules.

That is exactly what is happening in your situation.

I find it amazing that a grown man gets all worked up over ink on a piece of paper, which has a shorter shelf life than a daily newspaper.

[Mike White]

Lets just keep it REAL, it's what make this country what it is today!! Work Hard and get the Job done, don't ask for give me stuff, or things your
really didn't earn.

With the integrity of the sport gone, none of the scores are real anyways.

300 games on a THS, didn't earn them without help from the lane man.

[Aslan]

With the integrity of the sport gone, none of the scores are real anyways.

300 games on a THS, didn't earn them without help from the lane man.

And here we go.

Iceman…you're finally learning from Aslan. I have mastered the ability to get you riled up with very little effort. Very big buttons (like that staples button)…press the button…Iceman rants in 2-3 threads…entertainment, entertainment.

YOU…have now found that ability concerning our friend MWhite. No matter whether its your 300 game, success on wood lanes, or just feeling good in general…MWhite is going to somehow get back to the fact that bowling nowadays sucks and nobody is as good as their scores indicate. #doomsday

[Mike White]

And here we go.

Iceman…you're finally learning from Aslan. I have mastered the ability to get you riled up with very little effort. Very big buttons (like that staples button)…press the button…Iceman rants in 2-3 threads…entertainment, entertainment.

YOU…have now found that ability concerning our friend MWhite. No matter whether its your 300 game, success on wood lanes, or just feeling good in general…MWhite is going to somehow get back to the fact that bowling nowadays sucks and nobody is as good as their scores indicate. #doomsday

Wrong intrepretation.

I'm saying the score isn't an good indicator of a person's overall ability.

[Aslan]

Wrong intrepretation.

I'm saying the score isn't an good indicator of a person's overall ability.

Next you're going to tell me a gal's cup size isn't a good indicator of her intelligence!! Where does it end Mike!! STOP ruining the fairy tales!!

[MICHAEL]

With the integrity of the sport gone, none of the scores are real anyways.

300 games on a THS, didn't earn them without help from the lane man.

Really MIKEY???? REALLY the integrity is gone! Does that mean all the hundreds of people who come up to me and say, Iceman,,, I have been bwoing for over 37 1/2 years and have NEVER had a 300 like you. Are you saying they are subhuman?? Are you saying they are less then YOU!

What are you Mike White? Do you think of yourself as a GOD! Do you think your God's gift to bowling, and (((in the day when it was tough)))), you ruled.

Mikey,,,please,,, people are about as tired of me bring up my 300's , and several 700's I've been having lately, as they are of you and your constantly typing about EASY OIL!!

EASY OIL is a phrase that every time I read it from you I have to leave the room and take a dump!

YOU Insult the thousands of good bowlers that have not had a 300, nor 800 yet.

Do us all a favor and put a lid on the OLD DAYS PLEASE!!!

Hey Mikey,,, have a GREAT Thanksgiving!!

[Hammer]

Before our AMF house closed our non-sanctioned league had the same thing that you can only have one category. The only way you got to see your stats in reality was on our sheets they had a section called Last Weeks Top Scores. Here you could have your name everywhere. But they also had a section called Season High Scores. Here each person could only have one spot. I didn't care for this kind of thing either. Each person should have to work for what he/she gets. If you didn't get first place in something then work for it like the person in reality did. You shouldn't be getting first place in a category if you are not in first place.

What they should do with standing sheets is take each category like for instance Scratch Game men/women and list the people from first place to last place so everyone could see how they stack up to everyone in the league. If you don't like where you are in the standings then put in the work to improve yourself and work your way up higher in the Scratch Game category. There will be folks that will have the incentive to get better and there will be folks that don't care and don't mind being in last place. In the Handicap Game category a person not that good can change their standing from what it was in the Scratch Game category to a higher level because they have a higher handicap then the folks with lower handicaps that are better bowlers. That is why it is a handicap league to level the playing field.

So wah wah wah I am with ICEMAN on this one and I will be 68 soon. So if a young guy or gal can't bowl better then an old guy like me then put in the work like I did to bowl better and jump above me in a category. You shouldn't get something you don't deserve. It's not reality.

[MICHAEL]

Before our AMF house closed our non-sanctioned league had the same thing that you can only have one category. The only way you got to see your stats in reality was on our sheets they had a section called Last Weeks Top Scores. Here you could have your name everywhere. But they also had a section called Season High Scores. Here each person could only have one spot. I didn't care for this kind of thing either. Each person should have to work for what he/she gets. If you didn't get first place in something then work for it like the person in reality did. You shouldn't be getting first place in a category if you are not in first place.

What they should do with standing sheets is take each category like for instance Scratch Game men/women and list the people from first place to last place so everyone could see how they stack up to everyone in the league. If you don't like where you are in the standings then put in the work to improve yourself and work your way up higher in the Scratch Game category. There will be folks that will have the incentive to get better and there will be folks that don't care and don't mind being in last place. In the Handicap Game category a person not that good can change their standing from what it was in the Scratch Game category to a higher level because they have a higher handicap then the folks with lower handicaps that are better bowlers. That is why it is a handicap league to level the playing field.

So wah wah wah I am with ICEMAN on this one and I will be 68 soon. So if a young guy or gal can't bowl better then an old guy like me then put in the work like I did to bowl better and jump above me in a category. You shouldn't get something you don't deserve. It's not reality.


THANK YOU VERY MUCH Hammer,,, YOU are a REAL MAN!! I've been in sports my whole life, and never have I seen a stat sheet that was not Reality! MAN-UP, WOMAN-UP! When your running around with a FAKE STAT SHEET, Saying look at ME I have the high Scratch game of 83,,, Whoooooppppiiiieeee!!! WAKE UP CALL,,,, its not REALITY!! Get a coach, if you don't have the gift, and make that imaginary scratch game a reality!!

I will bring this up so help me god in every league I am in from this day forward.

keep the stats accurate!!

( I don't have a big problem with money, which is what it is now days in most leagues, being limited to High average, and one other category. I even like an award for most improved. Iceman does have a heart,,, its just two sizes too small!

[mc_runner]

I agree with ftlob. In my mixed league you can be listed on the season for whatever you've done... but at the end of the season you win one prize. Order of importance usually goes High avg, high series, high game (scratch) then the team stuff. One person can sweep but everyone gets a chance to win. This works out really well for a fun, less comepetitive league.

Tuesday league is up to true stats and is much more competitive. For a $$ league that's more serious I am totally on board with true stats/awards and wouldn't like it a different way. In this one handicap awards are given out as well so everyone does get a chance in that sense.

[Mike White]

I agree with ftlob. In my mixed league you can be listed on the season for whatever you've done... but at the end of the season you win one prize. Order of importance usually goes High avg, high series, high game (scratch) then the team stuff. One person can sweep but everyone gets a chance to win. This works out really well for a fun, less comepetitive league.

Tuesday league is up to true stats and is much more competitive. For a $$ league that's more serious I am totally on board with true stats/awards and wouldn't like it a different way. In this one handicap awards are given out as well so everyone does get a chance in that sense.

If I read this correctly, your two leagues print the sheet differently, and the way they print it reflects the difference in the league rules.

Bottom line is we have a cry baby getting worked up over ink on paper. And THAT is the truth.

[Mike White]

I will forgive you THIS TIME for calling me a CrAZy person mike!

I don't need your forgiveness.

You're big on only getting things you earned.

The title "Crazy Person" you have earned.

[MICHAEL]

I don't need your forgiveness.

You're big on only getting things you earned.

The title "Crazy Person" you have earned.

I know YOU don't need my forgiveness Mikey,,, but for some ODD,, STRANGE,, maybe even SICK reason, I am giving it to YOU! Being a Bowling God, hearing your prayers EVERY NIGHT, about THS, and how easy it is NOW DAYS, ((is wearing not only me OUT,, but several other gods.))

I would rather be crazy then someone that is crazier then me!! You fit that bill mike.... I really think easy house oil fried your brain!

One big difference between you and me, besides me being better looking, and about a foot taller, is your a common mortal! I am a GOD!

When you pray at night,,,,, I NOW hear your prayers Mikey..... be careful what you pray for,,,, I just might give it to you!

I think that Rubber Ducky you want for you nightly hot bath is not an unrealistic request for Christmas, the part that's going to be hard for me to
accomplish is a Rubber Duck that keeps saying, while in bath water, HOUSE OIL is NOT What It Use to be,.... over and over!!

but the Can of Old time Lane Oil, to be used by YOU and your better half while doing the,,,,, wild,,,,, Well that's just slick,,,or is it SICK!


Request denied, not just by ICEGOD, but ODEN himself!

[rv driver]

Wrong intrepretation.

I'm saying the score isn't an good indicator of a person's overall ability.
Huh. You could say that about any sport, though. sometimes a "world championship" team wins by a score of 2. Or 7. Even if the "loser" loses by 1 point, they've lost just as much as if they'd lost by 70.

The game of bowling (aw we know) has its success determined by how many pins you knock down. A slow domino-effect strike counts just as much as one that shatters the pins with a mighty explosion of power. Does it really matter if the pins are knocked down by a rubber ball, a high-end reactive ball, on wood, or on synthetic, or with what kind of oil pattern? Is Michael Phelps any less of an athlete than Mark Spitz? Is Peyton Manning any less a quarterback than Broadway Joe? You tell me, and, while you're at it, tell me by what standards you're doing the measuring.

[MICHAEL]

Huh. You could say that about any sport, though. sometimes a "world championship" team wins by a score of 2. Or 7. Even if the "loser" loses by 1 point, they've lost just as much as if they'd lost by 70.

The game of bowling (aw we know) has its success determined by how many pins you knock down. A slow domino-effect strike counts just as much as one that shatters the pins with a mighty explosion of power. Does it really matter if the pins are knocked down by a rubber ball, a high-end reactive ball, on wood, or on synthetic, or with what kind of oil pattern? Is Michael Phelps any less of an athlete than Mark Spitz? Is Peyton Manning any less a quarterback than Broadway Joe? You tell me, and, while you're at it, tell me by what standards you're doing the measuring.


Right on,,, right on!! Score no matter how = who the fricken winner is of a game! I think what mike is saying is the whole sport of bowing is so damn easy now days that anyone,,, even ASLAN can beat him on a given day!

Now is Aslan a better bowler then mike white? hummmmmmmm,,,,, not sure I haven't been around them enough to know. Getting beat in a game by someone with a much lower average, doesn't mean that he is necessarily better then you, but it does mean he/she was better then you that game!

Mabye that's what MIke is talking about,, at least it's better then hearing about the old days, and lane conditions now being way too EASY!!

[mc_runner]

If I read this correctly, your two leagues print the sheet differently, and the way they print it reflects the difference in the league rules.

Bottom line is we have a cry baby getting worked up over ink on paper. And THAT is the truth.


Not quite, both leagues print out the "true" stats... one person can be listed for high game, series, average, etc (same with teams). However, in the mixed league awards at the end of the season an individual will only win one award vs a sweep of all the awards. In the competitive league whomever is highest gets the award regardless of whether they've already won.