1st pba telecast sunday 12/14 -- will you be watching?

[fortheloveofbowling]

The first pba telecast of 12 sundays in a row coming up this sunday. The cheetah championship is first up. Is everybody going to be watching? Check the pba website for pictures of the 4 animal pattern and world championship finalists and make your picks.

Mine are:

Cheetah - Anthony Pepe

Viper - Dom Barrett

Chameleon - DJ Archer

Scorpion - Tom Hess

World Championship - Wes Malott

[Perrin]

I would like to but I 'Cut the Cord' on cable. tired of paying over $100 a month for 300 channels I don't watch so I can watch the 5-10 channels I do.

[manke]

I'm excited for bowling to be on again!! I just wish they could use the same balls they use for qualifying and round robin in the telacast.

[J Anderson]

Probably won't watch it live but it's all set to record.

Correct that definitely won't be watching live. I have the 5 person team event to bowl in the local USBC tournament at 1:00p.m. followed at 4:00p.m. by the singles/doubles events.

No Spoilers!!

[Bradski9]

I get off at 1 Sunday so I'll be watching. Might have to leave a few minutes early to make It in time.

[Aslan]

I HOPE to make it back from league (Sunday AM) in time to watch it.

I'll be rooting for:
Cheetah: Liz Johnson
Viper: MIKA!
Chamelion: nobody...don't like any of them
Scorpion: nobody...don't like any of them
World Championship: Jason Couch

Who do I think will WIN?
Cheetah: Dick Allen
Viper: Ronnie Russel
Chamelion: Sean Rash
Scorpion: toss up...maybe Martin Larsen...
World Championship: Mike Fagan

[RobLV1]

I watched the taping of the show for the Cheetah Championship (on this Sunday). If you can't watch it, tape it. It's well worth the price of admission.

[Sourtower]

I've been waiting for bowling to get back on TV. I enjoyed watching the Summer Swing on CBS Sports over the summer. Wish they would televise everything love though...

[Blacksox1]

Thanks for the head up.:)

[Aslan]

It's not on.

I just turned through every sports channel, every ESPN channel, and the Harlem Globetrotters are on one channel and 30 for 30 on another. :mad:

[Aslan]

It's not on.

I just turned through every sports channel, every ESPN channel, and the Harlem Globetrotters are on one channel and 30 for 30 on another. :mad:

Looks like I did the math wrong. 1PM EST = 10AM PST….not 11AM. Great. There's no way I can catch PBA telecasts on Sundays at 10:00AM…not when our sport shot league bowls at 8AM. Bummer.

[Bradski9]

It's not on.

I just turned through every sports channel, every ESPN channel, and the Harlem Globetrotters are on one channel and 30 for 30 on another. :mad:

It was on from 1pm to 2pm.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Looks like I did the math wrong. 1PM EST = 10AM PST….not 11AM. Great. There's no way I can catch PBA telecasts on Sundays at 10:00AM…not when our sport shot league bowls at 8AM. Bummer.

I won't tell you who won because they should have it posted on xtraframe in the next day or so. It might be up there later today because it was recorded earlier.

[Sourtower]

I'm just glad that bowling is back on TV. It's been a long wait since the Summer Swing. It's also nice to see some of the new bowling balls on the lanes.

[Aslan]

I won't tell you who won because they should have it posted on xtraframe in the next day or so. It might be up there later today because it was recorded earlier. I think I read they'll post it on XTra Frame on Wednesday. Bummer.

[RobLV1]

It was on from 1pm to 2pm.

Eastern time!

[Blacksox1]

I think I read they'll post it on XTra Frame on Wednesday. Bummer.

ESPN3 on internet will have replay on demand sooner. Not up yet @720pm eastern

[fortheloveofbowling]

I think I read they'll post it on XTra Frame on Wednesday. Bummer.

As a added bonus they show your girl Diana Z a few times.

[Aslan]

As a added bonus they show your girl Diana Z a few times.

I have a love/hate relationship with her.

On the one hand...she's drop dead gorgeous and she bowls...which makes her almost a dream woman.

On the OTHER hand...she went and got all attached to Wodka...AND I doubt she'd give me the time of day...AND I've had relatively bad experiences with foreign women in terms of dating.

[Mike White]

I have a love/hate relationship with her.

On the one hand...she's drop dead gorgeous and she bowls...which makes her almost a dream woman.

On the OTHER hand...she went and got all attached to Wodka...AND I doubt she'd give me the time of day...AND I've had relatively bad experiences with foreign women in terms of dating.

You've had bad experiences with all kinds of women, things like they won't stay inflated.

[Mike White]

ESPN3 on internet will have replay on demand sooner. Not up yet @720pm eastern

Somehow quite a while ago, I had the DVR set to record bowling on ESPN, then they switched to CBS Sports so I completely forgot I had it set to record.

When I got home Sunday Night, surprise surprise, I had a new hour of bowling on the DVR.

[MICHAEL]

I just changed over to Direct TV, satellite! I am clueless, any one know the channel the bowling will be on? I will find out, but if anyone knows, it will save me the footwork!!

Had Time Warner Last year... but Direct TV make me an OFFER I could not refuse! NFL Package for two years.... It's cool looking at up to 6 games at one time!

[Mike White]

I just changed over to Direct TV, satellite! I am clueless, any one know the channel the bowling will be on? I will find out, but if anyone knows, it will save me the footwork!!

Had Time Warner Last year... but Direct TV make me an OFFER I could not refuse! NFL Package for two years.... It's cool looking at up to 6 games at one time!

I think you have things backwards.

When you're a God, people ask you to do thing for them.

When you're a King, you tell people to do things for you.

[Aslan]

Well, I finally got to see it on XTra Frame.

I have to admit, it WAS exciting!!

I'm bummed that Liz didn't make the finals. Especially when Pepe was sporting a "faux hawk". It's just a pet peeve of mine that men over the age of 11 should:

A) Not follow professional wrestling.
B) Not sport a 'faux hawk'.

Personally I think they're stupid on children as well...but if a parent wants to turn their kid into some kind of freak show for a few years I guess thats their business. But on an adult man? Come on.

And did Pepe DESERVE to win in the finals? No. He missed a single-pin spare by a mile! And it took Dick Allen completely chocking and getting 3 straight splits for Pepe to sneak by him. And I don't like the way they did that. You have 3 players beating up the pattern. Then Dick Allen has to play on their garbage. The finals should've moved to a new set of lanes in my opinion. Especially with all the high rev players on the tour...playing a very short pattern. And of course, the elephant in the room...Pepe was the only lefty...and we all know the world for leftys is unicorns and candy canes.

And I'd like Rob's opinion (assuming he didn't get tired of policing cartoons and joking comments and just go to 'the other site') on Pepe's shot. My question for RobM is; "Anthony Pepe appeared to have a very "up the side of the ball" "more axis rotation than axis tilt" kind of release and he was playing what I would consider the outside line. The reason I'm interested in Rob's take is that Rob has always "poo poo"ed:
1) Hand up the side of the ball versus through the ball.
2) Playing outside of 13...especially outside of 10 where there's significant dry.

In particular...how was Pepe able to play that line...the same line I think Liz Johnson was playing on the right side...without is ball "burning up energy"?

When I come up the side of the ball (rather than release thorugh it)...I've noticed that while the release feels more natural and I'm less likely to "drop it"...the ball will hook sooner. I've even been told by a coach or two that the problem with a higher loft shot, coming up the side of the ball, is your ball hooks too soon...burns up too soon..etc... So how was Pepe able to play up the outside with that release? Why didn't his ball burn up or lose energy?

And I'm not asking in a fecetious way. I generally DON'T understand TWO things in bowling (besides how Iceman rolled not one but 2 300-games):

1) How to compare cover stock strength from ball to ball or brand to brand.

2) How balls burn up energy...roll out...etc... I understand the "concept"...I just can't really wrap my head around it.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Anthony pepe is a heck of a player. I picked him basically because he was the only left hander on the telecast, i wanted liz to win though. I don't know about everyone else but i don't like that 3 person match. I wish all the shows would go back to the 5 person stepladder or at least a 4 person like that.

[Aslan]

Anthony pepe is a heck of a player. I picked him basically because he was the only left hander on the telecast, i wanted liz to win though. I don't know about everyone else but i don't like that 3 person match. I wish all the shows would go back to the 5 person stepladder or at least a 4 person like that.

Betting on a lefty is easy money. I always wonder if Earl would have had as many titles as he had if he had been born a righty. And it's the biggest reason I might consider a Roth or a WRW as being better than Earl all-time...because they did it on the side where it's more difficult. Still would put Earl ahead of Roth with WRW #1....I mean, at the end of the day titles win the arguement...but I'd at least consider Roth for #2 given he was a righty.

And totally agree. The 3-person match was a complete FAIL. I think it was actually more confusing for the lay person at home because you had two bowlers on different lanes bowling. And it's never a good sign when ESPN cuts away from the action to do some personal interest story and then returns to the bowling action and updates people on the last 3-4 frames. You don't see that...almost never...in popular sports where they go to commercial break but don't stop the play. I can't imagine FOX going to commercial and then coming back to the Packers/Patriots game and saying, "While we were away getting that insight on sports medicine, Aaron Rodgers threw a touchdown pass to Randall Cobb and Shane Vereen returned the kickoff for a touchdown."

[Aslan]

I also didn't like Anthony Pepe's crybaby antics at the end of the match.

I mean come on...Scott Norton did it and everybody kinda accepted that "hey, first outwardly gay bowler....he won a title...he's a little emotional...its cool." But with Pepe it was almost uncomfortable. He needed to take the microphone off so everyone didn't have to hear him slobbering and snotting all over the place like a guy who's dog just got run over. I mean, man up for crying out loud. I haven't seen something that uncomfortable in bowling since the "Who am I you are I am" PDW debaccle.

[fortheloveofbowling]

That debate about Earl - WRW - Roth - PDW encompasses a lot of factors. That would be a good thread to start though if not already posted to death.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I also didn't like Anthony Pepe's crybaby antics at the end of the match.

I mean come on...Scott Norton did it and everybody kinda accepted that "hey, first outwardly gay bowler....he won a title...he's a little emotional...its cool." But with Pepe it was almost uncomfortable. He needed to take the microphone off so everyone didn't have to hear him slobbering and snotting all over the place like a guy who's dog just got run over. I mean, man up for crying out loud. I haven't seen something that uncomfortable in bowling since the "Who am I you are I am" PDW debaccle.

I'm not sure Pepe is gay though?? I mean i was wondering. I love that PDW WHO DO THINK YOU ARE I AM. I would like to get one of those coffee mugs i have heard Pederson talk about or a shirt or whatever storm is cashing in on in regards to that.

[Aslan]

That debate about Earl - WRW - Roth - PDW encompasses a lot of factors. That would be a good thread to start though if not already posted to death.

I think PDW is definitely top 10...but it's hard to put him in the running for that top spot when WRW is still bowling and still winning. I haven't seen the stats recently, but last time I remember hearing them during a telecast...I think WRW has won 80% of the matches between him and PDW on TV.

[Aslan]

I'm not sure Pepe is gay though?? I mean i was wondering.

WHOA WHOA WHOA!! I didn't mean to imply that Pepe is gay...I don't know that nor did I think that.

Well, now I kinda think he might be. Now that you brought it up. I mean, he's thin, he has a 6-year old faux hawk hair cut, and he sobs like a baby in his mommy's arms on national television...but I'm not ready to out the guy. But...who knows? Pepe is an East Coast guy...Norton is a Cali boy. I assume most guys from California are until I hear different. But a New Yorker?? Hmm.. Not sure. It's a mystery.

[fortheloveofbowling]

WHOA WHOA WHOA!! I didn't mean to imply that Pepe is gay...I don't know that nor did I think that.

Well, now I kinda think he might be. Now that you brought it up. I mean, he's thin, he has a 6-year old faux hawk hair cut, and he sobs like a baby in his mommy's arms on national television...but I'm not ready to out the guy. But...who knows? Pepe is an East Coast guy...Norton is a Cali boy. I assume most guys from California are until I hear different. But a New Yorker?? Hmm.. Not sure. It's a mystery.

Wait a minute, don't put this on me. You mentioned norton and being gay and comparing the crying. You know you were implying that.:)

[Aslan]

Wait a minute, don't put this on me. You mentioned norton and being gay and comparing the crying. You know you were implying that.:)

No...I was saying Norton had a legitimate reason and it was kinda historical so I don't really fault the guy. I thought Pepe was just over the top because:

1) If he's not gay...then he's just slobbering and crying because he's a baby.
2) If he IS gay (according to FTLOB)...Scott already broke the 'gay barrier'....it's old news...time to move on, dry the eyes, and thank the Lord almighty that God gave Dick Allen 3 straight splits and allowed your sorry BEHIND to even be in the running!!

Actually, when I say it that way...Pepe probably isn't Gay...because according to Fox News (America's #1 news network), God hates gay people....so he wouldn't have helped Pepe win if Pepe were...ya know.

Listen...I got YOU saying he is...I got Fox News saying God wouldn't help him win if he was...lets just call it a tie and say he's BI? No harm no foul.

Either way...the slobbering and snotfest after winning a title has got to stop. Those last two shots his face looked like he got maced.

I imagine his mom was thinking, "Aww...my baby boy...I'm so proud of him!" And the Dad was thinking, "Aww...jeezus...he's crying on National television...all my friends back at the lodge are watching this and I'm never gonna live it down."

Do you think when RobM one wht 1st Annual Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge in heroic and epic fashion...that he started crying and slobbering all over?? HECK no! He put his balls in his bag...went to the bar and got a cocktail...won $400 in a slot machine...then strolled over and watched the doubles match. Not ONE TEAR. And what's bigger? The WSOB VI Cheetah Championship? Or the AVI CHALLENGE??

Exactly right. Man up ANTHONY!!

[fortheloveofbowling]

Fair enough. Honestly, i could care less if he is or not. Seems like a nice enough guy, and in the end that is all that matters.

[Aslan]

Fair enough. Honestly, i could care less if he is or not. Seems like a nice enough guy, and in the end that is all that matters.

'wink wink' :cool:

:)

[fortheloveofbowling]

'wink wink' :cool:

:)

Don't try to make me your foil since michael isn't currently posting.:)

[Bradski9]

No...I was saying Norton had a legitimate reason and it was kinda historical so I don't really fault the guy. I thought Pepe was just over the top because:

1) If he's not gay...then he's just slobbering and crying because he's a baby.
2) If he IS gay (according to FTLOB)...Scott already broke the 'gay barrier'....it's old news...time to move on, dry the eyes, and thank the Lord almighty that God gave Dick Allen 3 straight splits and allowed your sorry BEHIND to even be in the running!!

Actually, when I say it that way...Pepe probably isn't Gay...because according to Fox News (America's #1 news network), God hates gay people....so he wouldn't have helped Pepe win if Pepe were...ya know.

Listen...I got YOU saying he is...I got Fox News saying God wouldn't help him win if he was...lets just call it a tie and say he's BI? No harm no foul.

Either way...the slobbering and snotfest after winning a title has got to stop. Those last two shots his face looked like he got maced.

I imagine his mom was thinking, "Aww...my baby boy...I'm so proud of him!" And the Dad was thinking, "Aww...jeezus...he's crying on National television...all my friends back at the lodge are watching this and I'm never gonna live it down."

Do you think when RobM one wht 1st Annual Aslan vs. Iceman Challenge in heroic and epic fashion...that he started crying and slobbering all over?? HECK no! He put his balls in his bag...went to the bar and got a cocktail...won $400 in a slot machine...then strolled over and watched the doubles match. Not ONE TEAR. And what's bigger? The WSOB VI Cheetah Championship? Or the AVI CHALLENGE??

Exactly right. Man up ANTHONY!!

Holy crap. If I grew up aiming to be a bowler in the pba and then actually make it on TV, actually almost bowl a 300 on TV, AND then win the whole damn event I would cry too. He is obviously a bit more feminine than some of the guys he bowled against, but that shouldn't be relevant. Oh and God loves gays just as much as straight people, he just hates the sin that has caused them to do the things that they do.

[Aslan]

Don't try to make me your foil since michael isn't currently posting.:)

But….I don't have anybody to play with!!

http://pinadog.com/pics/t/162.jpg

[fortheloveofbowling]

But….I don't have anybody to play with!!

http://pinadog.com/pics/t/162.jpg

Don't worry, i have confidence your buddy will be back. And you can always go to the the Hillbilly Social i think is what you called it next summer.

[Aslan]

Oh and God loves gays just as much as straight people, he just hates the sin that has caused them to do the things that they do.

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/God-Hates-Nerds.jpg

Okay…it's gonna be a slow couple weeks until IceGod gets bored collecting bottle caps…so lets expand on this…

See, I agree with that statement. It's like how I feel about Diana Zavjalova. I don't hate HER…I hate the sin that has led her not to date me.

http://www.writtalin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/SAME-679x350.jpg

[Aslan]

Getting back to the topic….I WILL say that one thing I noticed was Motiv is having problems "finishing" on telecasts. The last time I watched a televised broadcast, E.J. Tackett was all the rage and he looked horrible. Now we're watching Dick Allen just self-destruct and lose an easy shot at a title (as the #1 seed).

It makes me wonder if maybe Motiv is "too aggressive" and/or if their bowlers are having trouble making the proper adjustments as lines break down…or maybe Motiv doesn't have the line-up that facilitates a good arsenal…that a high level bowler might need to deal with oil pattern breakdown.

I mean, these guys (Motiv team) are friggin impressive in qualifying and on fresher oil. But then you see them in the stepladder finals and suddenly they can't keep their balls right of the headpin. We see a TON of Storm qualifiers…and they often win…and a lot of that is that Storm sponsors WAY more players…but Storm also has the most complete line of bowling balls in the sport. They have a great deal of options when trying to ball down or get a different look. Motiv (and the other manufacturers) have much smaller line-ups the bowler has to work with.

Just wondering if thats a "thing" or if I'm reading too much into it.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I'm glad cheetah is out of the way. Not that i want to see the guys struggle, just challenged a little more. But everybody out there are all so great they can light up any pattern so it could be a strike fest anytime. Should be a interesting show on the viper tomorrow with Mika, Barrett, Russell, and Pickford. I think Dom will win but will root for Mika. Who do you guys think will win?

[RobLV1]

I'm glad cheetah is out of the way. Not that i want to see the guys struggle, just challenged a little more. But everybody out there are all so great they can light up any pattern so it could be a strike fest anytime. Should be a interesting show on the viper tomorrow with Mika, Barrett, Russell, and Pickford. I think Dom will win but will root for Mika. Who do you guys think will win?

Allen goes open, open, open, in the 8th, 9th and 10th on Cheetah. How much more challenge do you want to see? I think Russell will win, and before anyone accuses me of anything, no, I haven't looked up the results.

[RobLV1]

Getting back to the topic….I WILL say that one thing I noticed was Motiv is having problems "finishing" on telecasts. The last time I watched a televised broadcast, E.J. Tackett was all the rage and he looked horrible. Now we're watching Dick Allen just self-destruct and lose an easy shot at a title (as the #1 seed).

It makes me wonder if maybe Motiv is "too aggressive" and/or if their bowlers are having trouble making the proper adjustments as lines break down…or maybe Motiv doesn't have the line-up that facilitates a good arsenal…that a high level bowler might need to deal with oil pattern breakdown.

I mean, these guys (Motiv team) are friggin impressive in qualifying and on fresher oil. But then you see them in the stepladder finals and suddenly they can't keep their balls right of the headpin. We see a TON of Storm qualifiers…and they often win…and a lot of that is that Storm sponsors WAY more players…but Storm also has the most complete line of bowling balls in the sport. They have a great deal of options when trying to ball down or get a different look. Motiv (and the other manufacturers) have much smaller line-ups the bowler has to work with.

Just wondering if thats a "thing" or if I'm reading too much into it.

You're reading too much into it.

[Aslan]

I think Russell will win, and before anyone accuses me of anything, no, I haven't looked up the results.

I agree. I think Russell will win. He looked very impressive in qualifying on that pattern. But like FTLOB, I'll be cheering for Mika.

[Aslan]

Missed my sport shot league this morning because I over-slept. :mad: :mad: Not enough negative emoticons to truly convey how mad I am at myself for that…since my Tuesday league has been on holiday and the sport shot league is going on holiday…meaning I won't be doing any meaningful bowling now for a couple weeks. Thats 2 times this week that I over-slept. Maybe I need to re-arrange my bedroom so I can't turn my alarm clock off so easily. I barely remember even waking up. Then I get up and there's a new message from MWhite that he's feeling under the weather and won't be making it. So I guess our teammate bowled the top seed team by herself this morning. Bummer.

But…the ONLY good news is I get to watch the Viper on TV. And so far…AWESOME. Unlike Cheetah…my guy actually won the qualifying. And how did his opponents do? The high rev "look at me hook" players?? PFFT!! Garbage. Straighter is greater folks!!

Interesting to see Mika's loft today. Very, very few bowlers still use that much loft. It's interesting.

[Aslan]

You're reading too much into it.

STILL reading too much into it??

Hey Motiv! Great job beating everyone in qualifying…but you "might" want to find a way to win a title match if you're going to claim your balls are the leading edge of bowling ball technology. I guess we'll wait and see…Chamelion coming up next week!

MIKA! MIKA! MIKA!

http://i.giphy.com/Ju3EDRC1n8AP6.gif

[fortheloveofbowling]

Missed my sport shot league this morning because I over-slept. :mad: :mad: Not enough negative emoticons to truly convey how mad I am at myself for that…since my Tuesday league has been on holiday and the sport shot league is going on holiday…meaning I won't be doing any meaningful bowling now for a couple weeks. Thats 2 times this week that I over-slept. Maybe I need to re-arrange my bedroom so I can't turn my alarm clock off so easily. I barely remember even waking up. Then I get up and there's a new message from MWhite that he's feeling under the weather and won't be making it. So I guess our teammate bowled the top seed team by herself this morning. Bummer.

But…the ONLY good news is I get to watch the Viper on TV. And so far…AWESOME. Unlike Cheetah…my guy actually won the qualifying. And how did his opponents do? The high rev "look at me hook" players?? PFFT!! Garbage. Straighter is greater folks!!

Interesting to see Mika's loft today. Very, very few bowlers still use that much loft. It's interesting.

Great to see Mika win today. He always lofts the ball just changes the distance slightly. I heard that he developed that when he was younger because of the super dry fronts on the lanes he grew up on.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: Let's talk about a couple of issues. First, in terms of your perception that the Motiv teams balls might be too aggressive to handle lanes with other than fresh oil, keep in mind that Dick Allen lead qualifying where seven games are bowled on lanes with four bowlers per pair. That means that by the beginning of the seventh game, bowlers were bowling on lanes where twenty-four games had already been bowled, mostly by very high rev players who rip up the lanes like nothing you can imagine. Despite that, Dick Allen led. So much for Motiv balls being too aggressive or not adaptable.

2nd, when you consider the Cheetah Finals, please remember that there were three right handers and one left hander who practiced for 20 minutes on the championship pair, prior to two right handers and a left hander bowling the first stepladder game. Next you had Allen, who came back to the pair after waiting out the first game, and Pepe who came back immediately after having bowled the first game. Allen had a great look for the first seven frames before the lanes totally turned to crap. Pepe, despite the fact that he was the only lefty in the field, had already lost his ability to carry by the end of the final game. The difference was that four games plus practice had been bowled on the right side, and two games plus practice had been bowled on the left side.

Finally, let's look at today's match. Mika barely snuck by Russell, while the guy throwing urethane shot 126. Is straighter really greater? Next you have the final where the 14 time Titleist beat the TV first-timer by a whopping ten pins. I too was happy to see Mika win, only because it's been a while since he's won in the states, not because he throws it more like I do than a power player does.

[Aslan]

Finally, let's look at today's match. Mika barely snuck by Russell, while the guy throwing urethane shot 126. Is straighter really greater? Next you have the final where the 14 time Titleist beat the TV first-timer by a whopping ten pins. I too was happy to see Mika win, only because it's been a while since he's won in the states, not because he throws it more like I do than a power player does.

Well…concerning the Motiv discussion…it's just an observation that of the bowling I've watched on the internet and lately…the Motiv guys look like they are almost unbeatable in qualifying and then just fall apart. I threw out the theory that since sponsored bowlers can only use one company's balls…"could" it be an issue that Storm + Rotogrip…is a LOT of balls to choose from. Motiv doesn't have that advantage.

Was that the issue? Probably not. But, the fact is Motiv has fallen on their face thus far in the finals. Bad luck, tough breaks, chance…could be any number of things. I'm just throwing it out there because I thought it was interesting and unexpected. I watched almost all of the qualifying…and the Motiv guys throughout the WSOB were more than impressive. It made me start to buy into some of the stuff Motiv was shoveling that maybe their products (balls) were turning a corner and becoming "the best". But in finals…0-2 thus far. And if you think it's all delusional…I'm like 98% certain that after just those two matches…the Motiv company higher ups gotta at least be wondering the same thing…that they just lost 2 titles when their guy was the #1 seed…and why is that happening? And it's more important to Motiv than to the "big guys". Storm/Rotogrip is dominating the market…they don't need to win. But a Motiv (like a DV8 of the past) NEEDS to make the case that while it may be smaller…it's the BEST. If they get that perception and brand loyalty (similar to Hammer or more recently DV8)…they could be a force in the industry. OR…they could struggle under the lights and cause some 'doubt'.

But as to your last statement that I copied. Dom threw a urethane ball…because he's NOT a straight player. Shorter patterns favor straighter players. Liz Johnson mentioned it before the Cheetah match. The high rev folks simply get backed into a corner and start throwing the weakest equipment they can…and if they still go through the head…their done…or in this case, they're Dom.

And yes, you can imply that Mika being a future Hall of Famer should have beaten the new guy by more than 10…but my response will take a card from Iceman's deck and remind you that Mika has at LEAST 15 years on Ronnie. Mika 2014 is NOT Mika 2007. Like all of us, he's getting older. He'll be in the PBA50 soon. So did a Hall of Famer beat up on a rookie? Or did a young power arm just get handled by a senior citizen? Both are accurate…just different perspectives.

[RobLV1]

Let me tell you a little about Motiv. Prior to 2006, the company made the cores that went into neighboring Brunswick bowling balls. When Brunswick decided to move their ball production to Mexico, the President of Motiv, Scott Wilbur, decided that in order to keep his workers working, Motiv would begin making their own line of bowling balls. The company really only became viable in terms of their bowling balls around 2009, five short years ago. When you consider the short time that they have been around, Motiv has made monumental strides in the bowling industry. Most of their professional staffers are newcomers to the scene, just like the balls they are throwing. When you consider that in the first two shows from the WSOB, there were four players among the top eight using Storm/Roto products, three using Motiv products, and only one using an Ebonite-brand product, you would have to say the Motiv has made quite a splash in the bowling world.

[Amyers]

There are two distinct questions here as I see it and I think Aslans mixing the together.

Question one Does Storm/Roto have an advantage buy offering a larger selection of balls? I believe yes but with players of this level I'm not sure it makes much difference. There is overlap between some of storm and roto stuff if you had all of both but I do think their are some shot shapes they have that Motiv doesn't. How much difference does that make though if you can have your choice of 10 different drilling and any surface you can imagine on each my guess would be it evens out
When we purchase a ball we generally have one these guys can get as many as they need to try in different ways at that point I'm not sure you need access to 20 good balls 5 good balls may be all you need at that point.

Question 2 is the motiv equipment too strong for the conditions later in the telecast. I haven't watched it yet been busy with my own bowling but I know quite a few guys throwing motiv stuff and everyone who owns the motiv sigma sting will tell you it's the definition of a benchmark ball. The Ascent Apex is a great lighter condition ball and if you want to open the lanes up the motiv octane works well to swing out on light conditions. So no I don't think thier balls are too strong for the condition.

All in all you should be looking at it as the small little company went up against the big boys with a fraction of the resources and fielded 3 of the top 8 congrats to Motiv

[Aslan]

I respect Motiv and what they've accomplished. Absolutely. And as a former Michigander I'm glad they are doing all of this from their factory in Muskegon, MI. I went to college with a couple guys from Muskegon.

All I'm pointing out is:

1) When Storm/Roto has a line-up of 49 bowling balls for their pros to choose from and Motiv has 15...I think that gives Roto/storm a small advantage in finding a ball with just the right amount of 'whatever' to do what they want it to do.

Now...responding to what Amyers said about drilling and surface...I agree there are other variables...but either those other variables are important and the ball doesn't matter...or the ball is the main thing and those other variables are just "tweaks".

2) The fact of the matter is, we're seen two animal pattern finals and the finish was:

Cheetah:
1) Storm
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Storm

Viper:
1) Track
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Motiv

Don't get me wrong...like I said...I watched virtually all of the qualifying rounds and the Motiv guys were SO noticeably impressive that I actually started wondering if maybe Motiv balls WERE something technologically superior to what everyone else was throwing. And I'm more of a "balls don't matter that much" kind've guy.

One thing I noticed...and it happened with Dom, Ronnie, and Connor...was they seemed to be dead set on opening up the lane and playing their "A-Game"....to the point that they even were throwing urethane balls for crying out loud. With the success that Anthony Pepe had...and Liz Johnson had...and Mika was having playing straighter outside in...I just can't understand why those guys kept trying to thread a square peg into a round hole.

It was as painful to watch as watching E.J. Tackett (Motiv's star) in the 2013 Lucas Oil Wolf Open when he arguably went through the head in 7 of 10 frames and threw it in the gutter once. I know, I know...it was his first PBA TV event and I'm sure he was nervous...but how can a player at that level go through the head THAT many times in a match and seemingly make no adjustments or ball changes or anything?

The difference between the straighter veterans like Duke, Weber, WRW, Bohn III, Mika, etc... is that they play outside...straighter...but can move in if they have to. It seems like the power players like Dom Barrett, EJ Tackett, Dick Allen, Sean Rash, Belmo, etc... it seems like they simply have no options when their big hook A-game isn't working. They refuse to move right...they either refuse to utilize or have no straight game/release. And they hesitate to even ball down. We've seen pros attempt to loft the gutter for crying out loud rather than just change their game and straighten it out a bit.

[vdubtx]

I respect Motiv and what they've accomplished. Absolutely. And as a former Michigander I'm glad they are doing all of this from their factory in Muskegon, MI. I went to college with a couple guys from Muskegon.

All I'm pointing out is:

1) When Storm/Roto has a line-up of 49 bowling balls for their pros to choose from and Motiv has 15...I think that gives Roto/storm a small advantage in finding a ball with just the right amount of 'whatever' to do what they want it to do.



Have to remember that with both ball lines, there is a lot of crossover in what the balls actually can do on the lanes.

[Amyers]

U
I respect Motiv and what they've accomplished. Absolutely. And as a former Michigander I'm glad they are doing all of this from their factory in Muskegon, MI. I went to college with a couple guys from Muskegon.

All I'm pointing out is:

1) When Storm/Roto has a line-up of 49 bowling balls for their pros to choose from and Motiv has 15...I think that gives Roto/storm a small advantage in finding a ball with just the right amount of 'whatever' to do what they want it to do.

Now...responding to what Amyers said about drilling and surface...I agree there are other variables...but either those other variables are important and the ball doesn't matter...or the ball is the main thing and those other variables are just "tweaks".

2) The fact of the matter is, we're seen two animal pattern finals and the finish was:

Cheetah:
1) Storm
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Storm

Viper:
1) Track
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Motiv

Don't get me wrong...like I said...I watched virtually all of the qualifying rounds and the Motiv guys were SO noticeably impressive that I actually started wondering if maybe Motiv balls WERE something technologically superior to what everyone else was throwing. And I'm more of a "balls don't matter that much" kind've guy.

One thing I noticed...and it happened with Dom, Ronnie, and Connor...was they seemed to be dead set on opening up the lane and playing their "A-Game"....to the point that they even were throwing urethane balls for crying out loud. With the success that Anthony Pepe had...and Liz Johnson had...and Mika was having playing straighter outside in...I just can't understand why those guys kept trying to thread a square peg into a round hole.

It was as painful to watch as watching E.J. Tackett (Motiv's star) in the 2013 Lucas Oil Wolf Open when he arguably went through the head in 7 of 10 frames and threw it in the gutter once. I know, I know...it was his first PBA TV event and I'm sure he was nervous...but how can a player at that level go through the head THAT many times in a match and seemingly make no adjustments or ball changes or anything?

The difference between the straighter veterans like Duke, Weber, WRW, Bohn III, Mika, etc... is that they play outside...straighter...but can move in if they have to. It seems like the power players like Dom Barrett, EJ Tackett, Dick Allen, Sean Rash, Belmo, etc... it seems like they simply have no options when their big hook A-game isn't working. They refuse to move right...they either refuse to utilize or have no straight game/release. And they hesitate to even ball down. We've seen pros attempt to loft the gutter for crying out loud rather than just change their game and straighten it out a bit.

As far as what I said about the adjusting drillings and surface for the average guy we aren't usually going to buy multiples of the same ball or drill a new one up for this specific pattern these guys can and do. I just don't believe it's as necessary for 49 ball option in PBA competition. Really honestly out of that 49 how many are really that different that you couldn't change the surface and drilling to make it react the same? My guess is about 5 to 10 at best. The rest is marketing fluff. I am a fan of balls and arsenals but if they were all the same color could you tell a hyroad from the hysteria? The rolls look pretty similar. Hyroad solid vs hybrid vs pearl if you put the same surface on all of them? I bet the difference is less than a board if there really is any difference.

As far as EJ and the power guys playing there power game even when it's not the best choice vs the others you mentioned a lot of those guys are older and had more time to develop that outside game. I do believe most power players are less dimensional than some of the others. There is also something to be said for going with what got you there.

[J Anderson]

As much as I like Mika, He really didn't look all that sharp Sunday. Part of it may have been his choice to play a line where he had to be almost perfect to strike.

It just seemed that when Mika was off, he was left with a 6-10 to convert and even got a brooklyn strike one frame. His opponents were punished with big wide splits for every mistake.

[Aslan]

Hyroad solid vs hybrid vs pearl if you put the same surface on all of them? I bet the difference is less than a board if there really is any difference.


I agree with most of your post except that one sentence. A solid coverstock is going to do greatly different things than a Pearl. My Pearl cover balls will not move until they are in the tracers...and when they DO...it's a sharper movement. But if the pattern is long...or there's a lot of carry down....at my rev rate the Pearls are useless. Now...I sanded the Encounter (A) down to 500 abralon...and scuffed it with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper...and did it make a Pearl into a Solid? Not even CLOSE. My Solid cover Rhythm and Hybrid Bullet Train still break/hook far sooner than the sanded Encounter.

The Encounters have the strongest cores...they are/were pro level balls...but the cover material is HUGE. Sanding the Encounter (A) definitely makes it start to move sooner than the polished Encounter (N)...but we're talking a board of difference overall. And, I'm sure some experts will look at the sanded Encounter (A) and say that by sanding it so much....it's now burned up before it reaches the pins.

As to your arsenal...not knowing much about Seismic equipment...I'd bet in a side by side comparison...before surface changes...the Asylum hooks sooner than the Euphoria...but the Euphoria hooks more aggressively/more angular when it finally does hook. Never thrown either ball (although I've seen a few people throwing Asylums)...but I'd bet that is the reaction sinmply because the Asylum is a hybrid and I believe the Euphoria is a Pearl.

It's also why I'm not so sure what will hook sooner in my next arsenal between the Asylum and the Lethal Revolver. The Asylum is newer, more advanced....with a lower RG...but the Lethal Revolver is a solid coverstock ball with a higher overall hook rating. That will be an interesting comparison. The specs seem to point to the Asylum hooking sooner...but I never underestimate the power of a coverstock.

[RobLV1]

You are going to see a whole lot more difference between balls with different surfaces than you are with balls with different cover materials and the same surface. Gotta to with Amyers on this one.

[Aslan]

You are going to see a whole lot more difference between balls with different surfaces than you are with balls with different cover materials and the same surface. Gotta to with Amyers on this one.

Not according to my data from actual testing. And as I've stated to IceManGod…testing data always trumps opinion/guesswork/heresay/etc…

I had a Pearl Encounter brought down to 500 abralon and sanded with 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. On video AND being visually evaluated by a pro…the Bullet Train and Rhythm hook sooner…and it's not even close. Thats two balls…mid to upper level versus a pro level ball/core sanded/surfaced about as much as possible…and the lesser balls with the stronger cover stocks won.

[Aslan]

Ooooo….and a 300 game from Russell…WILL Motiv get their first title of the WSOB 2014!!???

And did Rotogrip just pick up JR Raymond once he qualified for TV? I didn't see a logo on his jerseys during qualifying and now he's wearing Rotogrip.

Well, funny how you start rooting for a guy…even when you weren't planning on it…I found myself rooting for Rash…despite not being a big fan….just because he's a Brunswick guy. Now I can't root for anyone though…Russell I've never really liked…and Archer I just don't like the way he bowls not to mention I CANNOT cheer for a guy of that age sporting a Faux Hawk. I mean, seriously?

AND…that Pressler chick is a joke. The PBA can save some much needed resources by having her go back to covering cheerleading events and cat shows.

AND…once again…"Hey kid, do you know who you're bowling against today?" Uhhhh…no….because they don't TELL THEM. Stop asking stupid questions!! Then he sees Tom Hess come waddling out and the look on his face was, "Who the **** is this guy?"

Archer is the perfect example, to me, of the problem with high rev/thumbless style. When he's "on"…that angle is tough to beat. But man…if that shot misses by just a small amount…it leaves some ugly, ugly leaves.

[Aslan]

2) The fact of the matter is, we're seen two animal pattern finals and the finish was:

Cheetah:
1) Storm
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Storm

Viper:
1) Track
2) Motiv
3) Storm
4) Motiv


Scoreboard Update:

Chamelion:
1) RotoGrip*
2) Motiv
3) Brunswick
4) RotoGrip

And MOTIV STILL has no championship in the WSOB!!!

Also, I put a asterisk next to Rotogrip's 1st place since really DJ was throwing a Storm ball…so that one is more like a Storm win than a Rotogrip win. And I kinda don't "like" that they do that from a marketing standpoint…because what does it say about RotoGrip's line-up if their sponsored bowlers can't find 3 Rotogrip balls worth throwing? If Storm is better….then why have RotoGrip? But I digress...

[Mike White]

Ooooo….and a 300 game from Russell…WILL Motiv get their first title of the WSOB 2014!!???


Maybe Motive will win after they realize, if you're going to practice, you don't turn on lanes 44 & 45 like they did in their commercial.



Archer is the perfect example, to me, of the problem with high rev/thumbless style. When he's "on"…that angle is tough to beat. But man…if that shot misses by just a small amount…it leaves some ugly, ugly leaves.

When they have conditions where back end movement is rewarded more than a lack of accuracy is punished, you'll see high revs dominate.

[epiepenburg]

Also, I put a asterisk next to Rotogrip's 1st place since really DJ was throwing a Storm ball…so that one is more like a Storm win than a Rotogrip win. And I kinda don't "like" that they do that from a marketing standpoint…because what does it say about RotoGrip's line-up if their sponsored bowlers can't find 3 Rotogrip balls worth throwing? If Storm is better….then why have RotoGrip? But I digress...

Different brands,still the same company. Not really any different with Brunswick. I bowl against a guy who is sponsered by DV8, and there are nights he throws a Brunswick ball. I don't think the parent company cares to much.

I do agree, that they should be able to find something in their own line of balls. But who knows, maybe they don't like some of the cover stocks or maybe there are enough difference between brands to keep everything unique.

[Aslan]

Maybe Motive will win after they realize, if you're going to practice, you don't turn on lanes 44 & 45 like they did in their commercial.

Maybe it's a 45 lane center where they skipped lane 13 because it's unlucky??

Mike ... they're from Michigan. You honestly can't picture Mudpuppy doing that?? Come on.

[Aslan]

And we're on to the PBA Scorpion Championship!!

Not sure who to cheer for. Was kinda cheering for Hess since he's a Radical/Brunswick guy. But he's out so I guess I'll watch the finals neutral. Will be interested to see if Haugen can finally get Motiv a championship.

[Aslan]

And Motiv finally gets the monkey off their back!!

Scorpion:
1) Motiv
2) Storm
3) Motiv
4) Radical

[circlecity]

If these things are taped why are they skipping a couple frames? makes no sense...

[RobLV1]

Interesting show for anyone who thinks that straight players can't play inside lines. Between Haugen and Larsen, you can't get a whole lot straigher than that.

[RobLV1]

If these things are taped why are they skipping a couple frames? makes no sense...

If they didn't cut out a couple of frames, they wouldn't have time to show some amateur bowling against some pro that they didn't get to choose, for a ball that they get anyway, and a jersey that, from the look of things, they really don't want. Some things are important! LOL

[Aslan]

Interesting show for anyone who thinks that straight players can't play inside lines. Between Haugen and Larsen, you can't get a whole lot straigher than that.

That is....if you're impressed by a guy winning 213-206 and looking horrible in the process. NOT the best of the animal pattern finals.

Also...can we stop the crying? I mean...Pepe cried like a 6-year old who watched his puppy get run over by a car...then Haugen brings his mail order bride up and asks her to marry him or something and she's blathering on like mad.

Unless you get your finger pinched on the ball rack or drop a ball on your foot...there's really no need for crying in bowling.


If they didn't cut out a couple of frames, they wouldn't have time to show some amateur bowling against some pro that they didn't get to choose, for a ball that they get anyway, and a jersey that, from the look of things, they really don't want. Some things are important! LOL

One of Rob's TOP TEN posts of all time!!

[fortheloveofbowling]

[QUOTE=Aslan;122642]That is....if you're impressed by a guy winning 213-206 and looking horrible in the process. NOT the best of the animal pattern finals.

Also...can we stop the crying? I mean...Pepe cried like a 6-year old who watched his puppy get run over by a car...then Haugen brings his mail order bride up and asks her to marry him or something and she's blathering on like mad.

Unless you get your finger pinched on the ball rack or drop a ball on your foot...there's really no need for crying in bowling.

That was harsh. Funny but harsh.

[RobLV1]

I am indeed impressed by a guy winning 213-206! Here is a wonderful example of the carnage that typical house patterns bring to the bowling world. If a pro doesn't shoot 260+, he looks horrible? Unless you've ever shot 200+ on a condition that is so tough that a straight-ball bowler is forced to play the 4th arrow, you have no conception of how good both of these bowlers performed.

[Aslan]

I am indeed impressed by a guy winning 213-206! Here is a wonderful example of the carnage that typical house patterns bring to the bowling world. If a pro doesn't shoot 260+, he looks horrible? Unless you've ever shot 200+ on a condition that is so tough that a straight-ball bowler is forced to play the 4th arrow, you have no conception of how good both of these bowlers performed.

I shot a 209 on the PBA Shark. Does that count? And I'm more on the "horrible" side of the average bowler vs. a professional.

The other reason it wasn't as impressive is that Larssen really looked "off" the entire final match...and Haugen had some lucky breaks AND he missed a 10-pin. Belmo missed a 10-pin, still shot like 246 on the Scorpion...and lost. Why? Because he missed a 10-pin. Haugen looked much worse...made the same mistake...but survived. Thats all I was saying.

[Mike White]

I am indeed impressed by a guy winning 213-206! Here is a wonderful example of the carnage that typical house patterns bring to the bowling world. If a pro doesn't shoot 260+, he looks horrible? Unless you've ever shot 200+ on a condition that is so tough that a straight-ball bowler is forced to play the 4th arrow, you have no conception of how good both of these bowlers performed.

213 with 2 opens is not impressive.
206 clean is a lot more impressive.

Haugen's strike in the 8th was a fluke, it was almost identical to Larsen's flat 10 pin, except Haugen got the 3 pin to bounce off the 9 pin, into the 10 pin.

And why doesn't Haugen clean the oil off his spare ball?

All that oil is likely to get onto his hands, and is that why he dropped his first shot at a 10 pin?

[Mike White]

I shot a 209 on the PBA Shark. Does that count? And I'm more on the "horrible" side of the average bowler vs. a professional.

The other reason it wasn't as impressive is that Larssen really looked "off" the entire final match...and Haugen had some lucky breaks AND he missed a 10-pin. Belmo missed a 10-pin, still shot like 246 on the Scorpion...and lost. Why? Because he missed a 10-pin. Haugen looked much worse...made the same mistake...but survived. Thats all I was saying.

No that doesn't count.

1) Yes you are a straight ball bowler.
2) You weren't forced to play 4th arrow.

The odd thing is none of the bowlers are "straight-ball" bowlers.

They all were trying to get a bit of hook into the pocket, it's just that the "bit" was much smaller than people are used to seeing.

With reactive resin balls, it's almost mandatory to have a negative launch angle to maximize control of the hook phase.

If there is no hook phase, then you can play a positive launch angle, much like you (aslan) tend to play.

So for Haugen, he wanted to widest part of the balls path to be approximately 16-17 board, and a negative launch angle would dictate that the ball crosses the arrows left of that.

[Aslan]

No that doesn't count.

1) Yes you are a straight ball bowler.
2) You weren't forced to play 4th arrow.

The odd thing is none of the bowlers are "straight-ball" bowlers.

I can't argue with that. I don't think of Larsen or Haugen as "straight" bowlers. Sure, they are "straighter" than Tommy Jones or Rhino Page or Belmo or Rash or Tackett....but that doesn't make them ME.

And I had a miserable experience last night in practice...on officially the toughest house conditions in Orange County, LA County and Riverside County COMBINED...due to the STUPIDITY of management to over-oil the lanes in the AM and then do NOTHING with them the rest of the day. We talk about "straight" bowling? Try throwing a ball where you lay it down around 11-12...and it crosses the arrows at about 12-13...and goes STRAIGHT into the pocket. I DARE anyone to try and play that line for 12 games. It was SO frustrating I thought about leaving after 6 games. EVEN when I hit that finite line that led to a pocket hit (with no angle to help)...and the ball hit the pocket...there was no carry. Lets just say I looked at the practice as an opportunity to work on my spare game. I left 'leaves' that I have rarely ever left:

NUMEROUS 5-7s. MULTIPLE 5-7-10s. THAT is what happens when you throw STRAIGHT at a pocket. It was miserable. And until temperatures warm up and they decide they need to re-apply prior to leagues in the evening (to protect the lanes more than anything)...this is just what I have to deal with or I gotta learn to bowl left handed.

But...I'll post that nightmare when I get back from lunch. :mad:

[Mike White]

I can't argue with that. I don't think of Larsen or Haugen as "straight" bowlers. Sure, they are "straighter" than Tommy Jones or Rhino Page or Belmo or Rash or Tackett....but that doesn't make them ME.

And I had a miserable experience last night in practice...on officially the toughest house conditions in Orange County, LA County and Riverside County COMBINED...due to the STUPIDITY of management to over-oil the lanes in the AM and then do NOTHING with them the rest of the day. We talk about "straight" bowling? Try throwing a ball where you lay it down around 11-12...and it crosses the arrows at about 12-13...and goes STRAIGHT into the pocket. I DARE anyone to try and play that line for 12 games. It was SO frustrating I thought about leaving after 6 games. EVEN when I hit that finite line that led to a pocket hit (with no angle to help)...and the ball hit the pocket...there was no carry. Lets just say I looked at the practice as an opportunity to work on my spare game. I left 'leaves' that I have rarely ever left:

NUMEROUS 5-7s. MULTIPLE 5-7-10s. THAT is what happens when you throw STRAIGHT at a pocket. It was miserable. And until temperatures warm up and they decide they need to re-apply prior to leagues in the evening (to protect the lanes more than anything)...this is just what I have to deal with or I gotta learn to bowl left handed.

But...I'll post that nightmare when I get back from lunch. :mad:

That sounds like the nightmare on Concourse wood/lawn darts.

To keep the ball from over hooking I had to throw a plastic ball completely dead.

When I finally got lined up close to the pocket, I would leave things like 5-8-10.

[RobLV1]

Two issues:

1. I have bowled with Michael Haugen extensively as he lived in Vegas for a long time. He throws the ball straighter than a great majority of the senior bowlers around town.

2. Aslan, if you ever get the chance to bowl on a PBA pattern that was actually laid down by the PBA lane man, you will see that it bears little resemblance to any so called PBA pattern laid down by your local bowling center.

[Aslan]

Two issues:

1. I have bowled with Michael Haugen extensively as he lived in Vegas for a long time. He throws the ball straighter than a great majority of the senior bowlers around town.
And the name dropping begins!! Next you're gonna say you recently interviewed Marshall Holmann!! Where does it end! ;)


2. Aslan, if you ever get the chance to bowl on a PBA pattern that was actually laid down by the PBA lane man, you will see that it bears little resemblance to any so called PBA pattern laid down by your local bowling center.

Uh oh.. Somebody sounds like MWhite...their nemesis!! Okay...I'll take your word for it. But until the day I start bowling in the WSOB...I'm gonna have to just try my best to find a challenging sport pattern...even if I'm sure it's just a THS pattern because nobody outside of Reno and Vegas can operate the oil machine. :p

[J Anderson]

Two issues:

1. I have bowled with Michael Haugen extensively as he lived in Vegas for a long time. He throws the ball straighter than a great majority of the senior bowlers around town.

2. Aslan, if you ever get the chance to bowl on a PBA pattern that was actually laid down by the PBA lane man, you will see that it bears little resemblance to any so called PBA pattern laid down by your local bowling center.

I realize that due to differences between the materials used for the lane surfaces, the condition of the surfaces, and the way the oiling machine is maintained, a sport pattern may play differently in one bowling center than another. What is it about the PBA lane man that makes the pattern that he puts down different from what I bowl on at Nutmeg Bowl? Is there a secret part of the pattern that's not released to the sport leagues? Some secret ingredient that must be added to the conditioner?

[bowl1820]

Here's a interest article that goes with this.

The 11th Frame: PBA laneman Mark Sabatine loves the challenge of his thankless job

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/5960

The same is true with the Nationals oil pattern, you download that pattern and place it on your lanes and it won't play anything like what it actually does at the nationals.

[RobLV1]

A lot of it has to do with how current the pattern is, as well as the type of oil used. Most of the PBA shots that are put out at local centers are several years old, left over from the days of the PBA Experience leagues. Those patterns have changed significantly. Last month I bowled in a local tournament that featured the Scorpion pattern at 41' in length. The current Scorpion pattern is 47' in length and bears no resemblance to the one used in the PBA Experience leagues.

[fortheloveofbowling]

What did everyone think about the show today. I like fagan and malott best among the guys on the show so i'm glad fagan won. Seemed like the shot was a little touchy towards the end there.

[RobLV1]

I liked a lot of what I saw of today's show, though, thanks to Direct TV, when the time ran over, I didn't get to see the last two frames.

What I especially liked:

1. Stu Williams demonstrating that you don't have to reach to the ceiling to throw a good shot.
2. Ronnie Russell making a great showing at the World Series and showing that he is a definite force to be reckoned with on the PBA Tour.
3. Both Wes Mallott and Stu Williams using equipment that is not the latest release, but using it because it WORKS!
4. Jason Belmonte demonstrating that he could possibly be the best color commentator that the sport has ever seen. This was a very pleasant surprise!

[fortheloveofbowling]

Yeah, i saw several guys going to that gold iq during the world series qualifying.

[epiepenburg]

I liked a lot of what I saw of today's show, though, thanks to Direct TV, when the time ran over, I didn't get to see the last two frames.

What I especially liked:

1. Stu Williams demonstrating that you don't have to reach to the ceiling to throw a good shot.
2. Ronnie Russell making a great showing at the World Series and showing that he is a definite force to be reckoned with on the PBA Tour.
3. Both Wes Mallott and Stu Williams using equipment that is not the latest release, but using it because it WORKS!
4. Jason Belmonte demonstrating that he could possibly be the best color commentator that the sport has ever seen. This was a very pleasant surprise!

I had the same problem with my DirecTV dvr....
I also agree with the Belmo comment, it was interested to hear him say what he would do. While Randy Petersen can give some alright insight, I'd rather hear it from someone that bowled the conditions and didn't make the telecast. Hope they keep that up.

Looking forward to attending some of the USBC Masters here in Green Bay in a few weeks. The tournament is about 20 min from my house.

[zdawg]

I liked a lot of what I saw of today's show, though, thanks to Direct TV, when the time ran over, I didn't get to see the last two frames.


Wasn't a DirectTV issue, I had the same problem with AT&T Uverse, I should probably just learn to watch these things live like I do all other sporting events.

[got_a_300]

I didn't have any problems watching it all on Charter cable
it must have been a satellite problem or something.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Anyone been watching the tournament in japan on xtra frame? Some good talent and talented bowlers as well.:cool:

[15lbballs]

yes, who is your favorite player and Japanese player?

[bubba809]

The Texas Tornado

[fortheloveofbowling]

yes, who is your favorite player and Japanese player?

Manae kameshima and Miku Urano have some talent.:)

[fortheloveofbowling]

Stepladder finals getting ready to start at the pba tournament in japan. Should be fun. Sigh up for Xtra Frame if you don't have it, well worth the money.

1) Fagan
2) Barnes
3) Johnson
4) Williams
5) Maldanado

[fortheloveofbowling]

Stepladder finals getting ready to start at the pba tournament in japan. Should be fun. Sigh up for Xtra Frame if you don't have it, well worth the money.

1) Fagan
2) Barnes
3) Johnson
4) Williams
5) Maldanado

In case anyone has xtra frame and has not watched it i won't say who won. It was a great show though and events held here in the states should take some notes in regards to telecast production.

[fortheloveofbowling]

So did anyone watch the finals of the recent tournament in japan on xtra frame?

[vdubtx]

Anybody catch the show yesterday?

New scoring format introduced which makes it interesting I guess. Was funny with the format that there was not much excitement from the bowlers.
Only outburst of excitement I really saw was Kelly Kulick when she left a ringing 10 and thought she won only to have to shoot at the spare.

[bubba809]

Yes, but the Rash/Belmonte match was a big letdown. :( Was really hoping for another "water bottle" incident.

[Aslan]

I finally got caught up today.

I fell asleep watching the Mallott/Fagan match of the championship so I got caught up on that. Then I watched the WBT finals.

I have noticed a few negatives thus far early on in the season.

1) The TV production has been a near disaster. Pressler's bimbo interviews. The bumbling surrounding the kids bowling the pros. The event getting cut short by some coverages when it ran over. The loss of coverage of live action when they cut away, sometimes to nothing, or to a commercial or some other spot. It's as if ESPN doesn't want to do the boradcast and sent their rookie team as a training exercise.

2) The new WBT scoring format is not only "bad", it's a real insult to the sport. You could tell none of the bowlers liked it even though they wouldn't say so directly. The new scoring format is not something that will enhance the sport or it's watchability; it'll change the entire sport as we know it. During that entire broadcast, we saw a total of 1-2 spares shot at. That alone will make spare shooting a non-factor or an afterthought. IF this is change is made…spares will have went from essential, to somewhat necessary, to a minor annoyance. Coaches will teach strikability and worst case how to only leave 1 pin. Why teach anything else? Odds are, you'll never need to shoot spares.

3) To add a horrible cherry on top of this whole thing…and to further my belief that they assigned a young, rookie production staff to the bowling coverage…someone thought it would be a good idea to have FLAVOR FLAV (of all people) go on the telecast and actually throw a shot. I don't even want to imagine the looks on the faces of the > 35 year old league blue collar bowlers as they watched a notorious idiot make a fool of himself on bowling's biggest stage. And they thought this would get bowlers interested in this weekend's celebrity bowling event? If Chris Hardwick wasn't bowling…I would have no interest in watching it. And I only have interest in watching him because of his late father.

I don't know who is making decisions at ESPN or the PBA…but at this point it appears to be producers that would be more comfortable on the Bravo network working on some "Housewives of X County".

[Aslan]

Yes, but the Rash/Belmonte match was a big letdown. :( Was really hoping for another "water bottle" incident.

That was my favorite part.

Not only did Belmo and his weird case of pink eye get obliterated…but then cocky Sean Rash lost to the elder statesman Mika.

[Aslan]

Well, I stopped watching once Chris Barnes/Hardwick lost to Russell and whoever that other clown was.

The two negatives I noticed from this telecast:

1) The audience…some were there to "celebrity watch"…but of the ones that were PBA/bowling fans that were there…they did not look entertained by the high school-esque antics/atmosphere. Yet another attempt by the PBA/Bowlmor to take a historic game loved my 10s of millions and make it into an "X-Game". I have a feeling the PBA owners would rather destroy bowling and get more of the 25-year old demographic to watch…then to have 10s of millions of bowling fans.

2) As noted above…it was very akward when the Russel pair tried to make noise as Barnes was about to release and he had to stop and re-set. I think Chris tried to downplay it as best he could…but thats an example where hardcore bowling fans saw that one way and casual celebrity watchers saw it entirely differently. The bowlers saw that and thought, "come on, where's the class?" And the celebrity watchers saw that and thought, "whats up HIS (Barnes) butt??!"

It's just nonsense for charity…so who cares really. But I can't believe Team Russell squeeked out that win despite having that one talentless player. Replay that match 10 times and it's a different outcome 9 out of 10 times. IMO

[Mike White]

But I can't believe Team Russell squeeked out that win despite having that one talentless player. Replay that match 10 times and it's a different outcome 9 out of 10 times. IMO

I think the same can be said anytime you've won something in bowling.

[Aslan]

I think the same can be said anytime you've won something in bowling.

Specifically speaking...are you talking about the victory over you and ZDawg in the 1ABHMSCABZI?? Or are you referring to my victory in the "Aslan vs. MWhite Wood Lanes Challenge"? I'm confused which monumentally awesome and decisive victory you are referring to. :eek:

[J Anderson]

Specifically speaking...are you talking about the victory over you and ZDawg in the 1ABHMSCABZI?? Or are you referring to my victory in the "Aslan vs. MWhite Wood Lanes Challenge"? I'm confused which monumentally awesome and decisive victory you are referring to. :eek:

Mike said anytime so he must mean both of those as well as the victory of the surfers over the bikers.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Aslan, you are absolutely correct about that barnes deal where he had to stop. You could really see that he wanted to strike twice and beat them so bad after that. He was even taking deep breaths and slowly exhaling before those shots. You know he wanted to run that second one out and point at them, honestly i wanted him to stick to them also. Just for fun obviously, but still a competition and some sportsmanship should still apply.

[Aslan]

Mike said anytime so he must mean both of those as well as the victory of the surfers over the bikers.

Well...he was on my team for that victory....and lucky for him he was since I had to carry him.

As of right now...I'm OFFICIALLY 2-1 against MWhite in head-to-head competion. He's very adaptive...like a Borg shield...I beat him handicap...he gets rid of handicap...I beat him on wood lanes...he decrees that those lanes were in such bad state of repair that it shouldn't be counted. FINALLY...no handicap...on Vegas synthetic, playable lanes...with no imaginary reverse block patterns....MWhite finally defeated me as he qualified #2 in the AVI stepladder finals and I was #5.

The difficulty is...in order for me to find lanes that we could use for the 2nd Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Aslan vs. Zdawg Southern California Invitational...it's gotta be in the Citrus Belt USBC...so ZDawg doesn't have to drive 3 hours. As tournament WINNER...I technically get to pick the next location...and I HATE bowling in Temecula almost as much as Mike does...because it's a joke, new age garbagy place with few lanes and it's always friggin hot in there and distracting......so I'm likely to pick Murrieta, which isn't much further (5-10min) for ZDawg to drive. But given how well Mike does at the Brunswick lanes in Norco...I kinda fear that he might be right in his wheelhouse at the Brunswick lanes in Murrieta.

But...thats a good reminder...I need to start making plans for the 2nd Annual tournament. I needed to get the OC BVL tournament out of the way...and Tuesday I need to find out if I'm gonna do the Orange County Open or not (waiting on a teammate to agree to be my doubles partner). Then sweeps is in March...but sometime Feb.-Apr. I'd like to get a Saturday nailed down with ZDawg for the 2nd installment. I'm sure ZDawg is anxious for round 2 now that his game is at a much higher level.

[Aslan]

Aslan, you are absolutely correct about that barnes deal where he had to stop.

Being a poker player (that also bowls)...I can often just read facial expressions and body language to see things that may not be outwardly visible. And not only could you tell that Barnes was unhappy with that (despite trying not to come off that way)...but you could tell from Hardwick's expression as well as some fans that it wasn't as funny as folks thought it was. I didn't get a chance to see who did what...and I didn't get a chance to see what Ronnie Russell's response was...but between Barnes and Hardwick...it was a moment that I can best describe as, "uncomofortable".

[Aslan]

As of right now...I'm OFFICIALLY 2-1 against MWhite in head-to-head competion.

CORRECTION: I forgot that "technically" I'm now 2-2 since MWhite DID defeat me in the semi-finals of the 1st Annual Virtual Bowling Tour (sponsored by bowlingboards.com).

I'm 2-0 against him in PHYSICAL competition...where we bowl mono-a-mono...but in the AVI he qualified ahead of me in the stepladder finals and I got knocked out before facing him...and in the VBT he DID beat me VIRTUALLY (rolling in different centers on different days).

Just wanted to be fair and keep the record straight...2-2.

[Mike White]

CORRECTION: I forgot that "technically" I'm now 2-2 since MWhite DID defeat me in the semi-finals of the 1st Annual Virtual Bowling Tour (sponsored by bowlingboards.com).

I'm 2-0 against him in PHYSICAL competition...where we bowl mono-a-mono...but in the AVI he qualified ahead of me in the stepladder finals and I got knocked out before facing him...and in the VBT he DID beat me VIRTUALLY (rolling in different centers on different days).

Just wanted to be fair and keep the record straight...2-2.

How many Sundays (Sport conditions) did we bowl on the same pair?

And how many of those times did you beat me total pins?

[Mike White]

Mike said anytime so he must mean both of those as well as the victory of the surfers over the bikers.

The Surfers over Bikers victory was a bit of a surprise to me.

Due to the structure, I expected to get stuck shooting at a large number of odd spares, but somehow Aslan threw more than his normal % of strikes.

And the fact that the bikers threw a less than normal % helped our cause.

9 times out of 10... Not sure on that, but probably close.

It's unfortunate that it wasn't recorded, since I left one of my classic solid pocket 3 pin leaves... (3 pin stopped in the 10 pin spot)

[Mike White]

The difficulty is...in order for me to find lanes that we could use for the 2nd Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Aslan vs. Zdawg Southern California Invitational...it's gotta be in the Citrus Belt USBC...so ZDawg doesn't have to drive 3 hours. As tournament WINNER...I technically get to pick the next location...and I HATE bowling in Temecula almost as much as Mike does...because it's a joke, new age garbagy place with few lanes and it's always friggin hot in there and distracting......so I'm likely to pick Murrieta, which isn't much further (5-10min) for ZDawg to drive. But given how well Mike does at the Brunswick lanes in Norco...I kinda fear that he might be right in his wheelhouse at the Brunswick lanes in Murrieta.


If you thought what I did at Norco was doing well, you're in big trouble.

I've only done bad at Norco.

First of all on Sunday morning, it appears they haven't cleaned the approaches from the Saturday night parties. That caused me to move up closer and slide much less. Then add to that the Sport Patterns which seems to be designed for the guy with very little hand.

Of the Brunswick houses I bowl at in the VBT, Norco was the only one I struggled at.

Now that Brunswick houses are run by Bowlmor, it's a toss up as to what the conditions will be. Cal Bowl was known as one of the higher scoring Brunswick houses before Bowlmor took over.

[Aslan]

How many Sundays (Sport conditions) did we bowl on the same pair?

And how many of those times did you beat me total pins?
Doesn't count. We weren't competing...we were TEAMMATES. I WANTED you to do well. I wasn't mentally trying to defeat you. It's a completely different environment once I put my "vs Mike" gameface on.


The Surfers over Bikers victory was a bit of a surprise to me.

Due to the structure, I expected to get stuck shooting at a large number of odd spares, but somehow Aslan threw more than his normal % of strikes.

And the fact that the bikers threw a less than normal % helped our cause.


Iceman tried his best to stack that doubles match as much in his favor as he could by:

1) Pairing himself with the highest average bowler and pairing MWhite with the lowest average bowler.
2) Making it scotch doubles which SHOULD GREATLY FAVOR a team with a righty AND a lefty (Mudpuppy).

I figured we were in big trouble because my strike rate is so low MWhite would constantly be dealign with my messy, multi-pin leaves and washouts. And I figured IF Iceman left something...it would be a 10-pin that Mudpuppy could pick up and if Mudpuppy left something it would be a 7-pin that Iceman could pick up...and they both have high strike %s to boot.

But...like that weird rapper guy that surged at the right time to help Ronnie Russell beat the Barnes/Hardwick team last weekend...I was able to get hot at the right time and not only strike a little...but even pick up spares that MWhite was leaving.

[Mike White]

Doesn't count. We weren't competing...we were TEAMMATES. I WANTED you to do well. I wasn't mentally trying to defeat you.

Ok so you're falling back on the "mentally not trying" excuse.

How about the person you were bowling against...

How often did you manage to beat them, because you mentally should have been trying.

If I remember, that didn't work out so well either.

Kinda eliminates the "mentally not trying" excuse.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Anyone watch the masters show today? What did you think of the performances?

[epiepenburg]

Anyone watch the masters show today? What did you think of the performances?

I watched it on tv because I couldn't get tickets to the show, they sold out for today. They had great turnout all week. One of the guys in my Wednesday league bowled in it, he didn't quite make the round of 64.

As far as the show, I really do like the step ladder format versus the format they used earlier this year. I honestly was rooting for Weber, he did an interview with the local news and you could really tell how much a win would have ment to him. He looked like he had some approach issues, then Belmo got in his head.

[J Anderson]

Anyone watch the masters show today? What did you think of the performances?

The first games were pretty good. All three games were close, being decided in either the ninth or tenth frame. Some excellent spare shooting as well.

The last game was disappointing with A.J. Johnson never putting any pressure on Belmonte.

[Mark O]

The first games were pretty good. All three games were close, being decided in either the ninth or tenth frame. Some excellent spare shooting as well.

The last game was disappointing with A.J. Johnson never putting any pressure on Belmonte.

I can second this, I thought it was a very exciting show until the end when it became clear that A.J. Johnson wasn't going to be able to put up much of a fight against Belmonte. It's a shame because it's happened in back to back years now where a young guy has bowled great all week to secure the #1 seed and then the moment just seemed a little too big for them on TV and by the time they got their nerves under control it was too late. That's the unfortunate part about it coming down to a 1 game match after it being a 3 game series to get them there but those are the breaks.

I think Saturday was equally if not more exciting than the TV show itself with the bowlers attempting to qualify for the show but unfortunately it could only be seen on Xtra Frame and I'm sure a lot of people missed it. It doesn't get much better though than 665-664 to decide the #1 seed and to have the eliminator come down to the final frame of game 3 to decide the #4 and #5 seeds.

[epiepenburg]

The first games were pretty good. All three games were close, being decided in either the ninth or tenth frame. Some excellent spare shooting as well.

The last game was disappointing with A.J. Johnson never putting any pressure on Belmonte.

I agree, he looked a bit nervous and seemed to really be muscling the ball a lot. He had to much speed and not enough rotation. It seemed to come together a little bit when he made that ball change. Belmo lucked out converting that split, also was cool to see A.J almost convert the Greek church.

[Aslan]

The first games were pretty good. All three games were close, being decided in either the ninth or tenth frame. Some excellent spare shooting as well.

The last game was disappointing with A.J. Johnson never putting any pressure on Belmonte.

For obvious reasons, I didn't really like it. Weber seemed like he was acting even more childish than usual...which I'm sure annoyed the mild mannered Larssen. Then he faced some guy with a Motiv jersey that appeared to be throwing Motiv, Storm, and RotoGrip balls so I'm starting to wonder if the sponsorships really mean anything at all. Then the Belmo vs. PDW match was just a constant annoyance of Belmo's erratic delivery and arrogant obnoxiusness versus PDW acting as MUCH like a baby as he could without wearing a diaper.

I mean, talk about the WORST guy you'd want to bowl with...if PDW wasn't celebrating some lucky spare conversion as if he cured cancer...he was complaining about the approach or about Belmo's towel. Not once...but it must have been 15-20 times he was complaining about something. Hey Pete!! Next time...if the towel is touching your ball...knock it on the floor. Problem solved. Hell...take it and throw it in the stands or something. But geez...between Anthony Pepe having a nervous breakdown after his win and Michael Haugen asking a random chinese lady to marry him....and now PDW actually whining the words, "But his towel is touching my ball..." it's like a bowling league full of toddlers. Maybe Kleenex should think of possibly sponsoring the event. The commercial would be:

"What did the potentially gay Anthony Pepe use to dry his eyes after blathering all over his mommy's shoulder like a little leaguer that got hit by a pitch? Kleenex. What did Micheal Haugen's mail order bride use to dry her eyes as he akwardly proposed to her on national tv? Kleenex. What does future Hall of Famer Pet Weber use to dry his eyes when Jason Belmonte puts a towlel too close to his bowling ball and then in a childish tantrum he breaks his signature sunglasses?? You guessed it. Kleenex."

"Kleenex...because PBA bowlers are babies."

[Aslan]

I agree, he looked a bit nervous and seemed to really be muscling the ball a lot. He had to much speed and not enough rotation. It seemed to come together a little bit when he made that ball change. Belmo lucked out converting that split, also was cool to see A.J almost convert the Greek church.

It looked like maybe he should join a sport shot league or something so he could practice that shot (and change it accordingly) on more challenging patterns. That entire match he looked like a guy that was used to a THS and suddenly couldn't figure out the pattern. I didn't feel too bad for him. Trial by fire man. I felt worse for the girl that bowled in the teen finals of the PBA Challenge a couple weeks ago. She was all over the place...looked like ME bowling...and there she was on the national stage and I think she didn't score much over a 100. That was brutal to watch.

Granted, she didn't seem to cry...at least not that they showed....which says a LOT given that most of the veteran PBAers seem to cry over everything from water bottles to hand towels.

[J Anderson]

It looked like maybe he should join a sport shot league or something so he could practice that shot (and change it accordingly) on more challenging patterns. That entire match he looked like a guy that was used to a THS and suddenly couldn't figure out the pattern. I didn't feel too bad for him. Trial by fire man. I felt worse for the girl that bowled in the teen finals of the PBA Challenge a couple weeks ago. She was all over the place...looked like ME bowling...and there she was on the national stage and I think she didn't score much over a 100. That was brutal to watch.

Granted, she didn't seem to cry...at least not that they showed....which says a LOT given that most of the veteran PBAers seem to cry over everything from water bottles to hand towels.

Despite his claim that his nerves were fine, his first few frames looked like he just had too much adrenaline to throw at the right speed. He really didn't look worse than Belmo until the end of the game.

[epiepenburg]

For obvious reasons, I didn't really like it. Weber seemed like he was acting even more childish than usual...which I'm sure annoyed the mild mannered Larssen. Then he faced some guy with a Motiv jersey that appeared to be throwing Motiv, Storm, and RotoGrip balls so I'm starting to wonder if the sponsorships really mean anything at all. Then the Belmo vs. PDW match was just a constant annoyance of Belmo's erratic delivery and arrogant obnoxiusness versus PDW acting as MUCH like a baby as he could without wearing a diaper.

I mean, talk about the WORST guy you'd want to bowl with...if PDW wasn't celebrating some lucky spare conversion as if he cured cancer...he was complaining about the approach or about Belmo's towel. Not once...but it must have been 15-20 times he was complaining about something. Hey Pete!! Next time...if the towel is touching your ball...knock it on the floor. Problem solved. Hell...take it and throw it in the stands or something. But geez...between Anthony Pepe having a nervous breakdown after his win and Michael Haugen asking a random chinese lady to marry him....and now PDW actually whining the words, "But his towel is touching my ball..." it's like a bowling league full of toddlers. Maybe Kleenex should think of possibly sponsoring the event. The commercial would be:

"What did the potentially gay Anthony Pepe use to dry his eyes after blathering all over his mommy's shoulder like a little leaguer that got hit by a pitch? Kleenex. What did Micheal Haugen's mail order bride use to dry her eyes as he akwardly proposed to her on national tv? Kleenex. What does future Hall of Famer Pet Weber use to dry his eyes when Jason Belmonte puts a towlel too close to his bowling ball and then in a childish tantrum he breaks his signature sunglasses?? You guessed it. Kleenex."

"Kleenex...because PBA bowlers are babies."

Mike DeVaney is the guy Pete Weber bowled in the second match. I don't think he has a ball sponsorship deal. He didn't wear any logos on his shirts during qualifying.

[Aslan]

Mike DeVaney is the guy Pete Weber bowled in the second match. I don't think he has a ball sponsorship deal. He didn't wear any logos on his shirts during qualifying.

I wonder how that works. I mean, obviously ball manufacturers want to grab up anyone that might make a TV appearance. But isn't part of that the throwing of THEIR equipment? I mean, Motiv sponsored a guy throwing Storm and Rotogrip equipment. Was it a 1-time thing where all he got was a free (size XXXXL) Motiv jersey? Or is Devaney now switching over his arsenal to Motiv?? I'm surprised there's not some rule about this kind of thing.

[epiepenburg]

I wonder how that works. I mean, obviously ball manufacturers want to grab up anyone that might make a TV appearance. But isn't part of that the throwing of THEIR equipment? I mean, Motiv sponsored a guy throwing Storm and Rotogrip equipment. Was it a 1-time thing where all he got was a free (size XXXXL) Motiv jersey? Or is Devaney now switching over his arsenal to Motiv?? I'm surprised there's not some rule about this kind of thing.

If he doesn't have a ball deal in place, he can throw whatever he wants. In the end it's about what equipment he feels will allow him to win on the conditions given. I believe he has (owns) his own pro shop, those type of guys seem to be less "brand committed" then the typical pro.

As far as rules, technically the only rules for clothing are dress slacks and a shirt with their name on the back. His PBA profile photo is of him in a Radical jersey. He's currently not listed as a pro for Motiv.

[fortheloveofbowling]

If he doesn't have a ball deal in place, he can throw whatever he wants. In the end it's about what equipment he feels will allow him to win on the conditions given. I believe he has (owns) his own pro shop, those type of guys seem to be less "brand committed" then the typical pro.

As far as rules, technically the only rules for clothing are dress slacks and a shirt with their name on the back. His PBA profile photo is of him in a Radical jersey. He's currently not listed as a pro for Motiv.

I'm not sure what the ball companies do now but at one time you could get bonuses for winning or sometimes even just using a certain product on tv. I'm not sure what he was using during qualifying but i'm sure 1 of the ball was a motiv. They probably said hey wear this shirt and if you use one of our balls and win we will give you x amount. Just a guess.

[Aslan]

I'm just saying...if the guy wants to have the ability to throw any manufacturer ball in the universe...PBA approved universe...then don't wear a Motiv shirt. If Motiv makes you a great offer to throw their equipment...then switch your equipment and wear a Motiv shirt. It's fairly simple. But to just slap on a 4XL Motiv jersey when 3/4 of your arsenal isn't Motiv...makes Motiv look sub-standard because even their guys that are getting paid by Motiv aren't actually throwing Motiv...and it's confusing for the public. What if that guy would have won...throwing a Rotogrip Hyper Cell and the next day some bowling schlub walks into his local pro shop and says, "Hey, that fat guy that won the tournament...the Motiv guy...I'm really impressed with his ball motion...I want to get the Motiv ball he was throwing!!!" Imagine the disappointment on "Mr. Motiv's" face when the pro shop owner casually replies that "Mr. Motiv" wasn't throwing Motiv...he was throwing Rotogrip.

I don't even like when Storm people throw Rotogrip or Brunswick guys throw DV8. I think it send the wrong message from the ball suppliers...that apparently, despite Storm and Rotogrip having GIGANTIC arsenals of balls to choose from...a PBA pro can't find 4 balls in either of those lines to throw...they need to pick and choose from Storm AND Rotogrip (or Brunswick AND DV8). The bowling community will likely disagree...and say, "Hey, the more options they have, the better choice they can make and the better they'll do"....and I get that...but like other aspects of the game...how much easier do we need to make it on professionals? They already score in the 245-300 range nearly EVERY TIME...to the point that they've actually lost TV audiences because people see strike after strike after strike...EVERY TIME...and it gets old. I feel that if you took away some of these recent advantages (surfacing of balls, trucks full of ball choices, etc...)...maybe we'd see a game where the two top pros play and it's 221-181. I'd rather watch 221-181 than 299-279.

[Amyers]

I'm just saying...if the guy wants to have the ability to throw any manufacturer ball in the universe...PBA approved universe...then don't wear a Motiv shirt. If Motiv makes you a great offer to throw their equipment...then switch your equipment and wear a Motiv shirt. It's fairly simple. But to just slap on a 4XL Motiv jersey when 3/4 of your arsenal isn't Motiv...makes Motiv look sub-standard because even their guys that are getting paid by Motiv aren't actually throwing Motiv...and it's confusing for the public. What if that guy would have won...throwing a Rotogrip Hyper Cell and the next day some bowling schlub walks into his local pro shop and says, "Hey, that fat guy that won the tournament...the Motiv guy...I'm really impressed with his ball motion...I want to get the Motiv ball he was throwing!!!" Imagine the disappointment on "Mr. Motiv's" face when the pro shop owner casually replies that "Mr. Motiv" wasn't throwing Motiv...he was throwing Rotogrip.

I don't even like when Storm people throw Rotogrip or Brunswick guys throw DV8. I think it send the wrong message from the ball suppliers...that apparently, despite Storm and Rotogrip having GIGANTIC arsenals of balls to choose from...a PBA pro can't find 4 balls in either of those lines to throw...they need to pick and choose from Storm AND Rotogrip (or Brunswick AND DV8). The bowling community will likely disagree...and say, "Hey, the more options they have, the better choice they can make and the better they'll do"....and I get that...but like other aspects of the game...how much easier do we need to make it on professionals? They already score in the 245-300 range nearly EVERY TIME...to the point that they've actually lost TV audiences because people see strike after strike after strike...EVERY TIME...and it gets old. I feel that if you took away some of these recent advantages (surfacing of balls, trucks full of ball choices, etc...)...maybe we'd see a game where the two top pros play and it's 221-181. I'd rather watch 221-181 than 299-279.

Few problems here

1. Even among bowlers what percentage actually watch the PBA. pretty small just because we have no life doesn't mean everyone else doesn't

2. What small percentage of bowlers can recognize a particular ball off the tv program anyway unless they specifically point it out.

3. With most of the balls Devaney threw I doubt many people were going WOW! I wish I could throw like that.

I've been told a the unsponsored guys get a check for wearing whatever shirt from the manufactures but they don't just sponsor him on the spot and drill a new arsenal for them. I really didn't think scoring was particularly high for this show and there were lots of shots that looked bad (yes I realize that is on very difficult conditions)

[Aslan]

Obviously this isn't a "world crisis"...it's just yet another 'tiny' annoyance that the PBA does. Is it on top of the list? No. Definitely not.

And yes, it's kinda sad that an unsponsored guy will essentially just whore himself out and make himself into a human billboard for some tiny little check. It's too bad bowling doesn't pay better where a person would be able to say, "If ya want to sponsor me...go ahead. If not, I'm fine wearing my own shirts, throwing my own balls, etc..." I mean, it's hard to say without seeing the size of the check...but if it was ME...I'd probably pass on the shirt...especially if it was a brand I wasn't already throwing. And my comment to them would be something to the effect, "If ya want to sponsor me, I'm open to offers. But I'm not interested in just wearing the shirt."

But again....it's easier to stand on 'principles' when you don't know how much the check was for. If it was in the $2500 range or more...thats a pretty decent offer for just wearing a shirt.

[fortheloveofbowling]

On the xtra frame coverage of the TOC this morning Marshall Holman and Mark Roth were commentators. That was worth the entire year fee just to hear those guys reminisce about the past and comment on the tournament.

[Perrin]

On the xtra frame coverage of the TOC this morning Marshall Holman and Mark Roth were commentators. That was worth the entire year fee just to hear those guys reminisce about the past and comment on the tournament.

I really need to get Xtra Frame. The wife is scare though that if I do I'll never pay any attention to anything while any tourneys are active. :cool:

She's right of course :o

[fortheloveofbowling]

I really need to get Xtra Frame. The wife is scare though that if I do I'll never pay any attention to anything while any tourneys are active. :cool:

She's right of course :o

She is right but i have been married for 28 years so i can get away with not paying attention sometimes or better yet i have learned how to fake the attention occasionally. Somehow i have made her believe that i can listen to bowling and her at the same time.:cool:

[Aslan]

Well....so far the top 5 in qualifying isn't turning out that great. But both Barnes and Parker Bohn III are still in the hunt! Looks like Liz Johnson and Mika are a bit too far back to get into that top 5...but I'll be rooting for Barnes and more so Bohn to make a run!

[vdubtx]

My friend Anthony Lavery has been bowling well all week. He is currently in 15th in match play and looks to be too far out to make any kind of sizable run. Through 1 games in this last block he is 324 pins back.

[RobLV1]

Seems strange to me that noone has mentioned that five of the top nine are lefties.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Seems strange to me that noone has mentioned that five of the top nine are lefties.

Yeah, i was thinking all through qualifying and match play that it was obvious the left must be playing pretty nice. I never mentioned it because it doesn't seem like any of us on here are lefty haters. I'm sure on some of the other forums guys are going nuts about it. I'm glad to see Rhino back on a show and would have been nice if PA could have made it as well. Should be a really interesting show though.

[RobLV1]

Lots of interesting things about the TOC. Aside from the number of lefties in the top 25, I think that it's relevant that a number of different styles were able to compete. Not surprising to see Belmonte and Rash as the two lone right-handers in the top five. Another thing that is becoming very apparent is that Liz Johnson is really coming into her own. Aside from the gender difference, she is also one of the only straight players who is consistently a presence to be reckoned with.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Liz is unbelievable. I have watched her a lot of games on xtra frame recently and she just puts the ball in the pocket over and over plain and simple. If not the lowest rev rate out there she has got to be close. The woman just knows how to bowl a professional game period.

[Aslan]

Well, despite Belmo winning again…and Pressler asking the same question 99% of the time…another really good tournament by the PBA this season. Only a couple more watchable tournaments left this season before they end with the less watchable PBA League.

The Norton/Rash match was excellent. I didn't notice the lefties thing until the commentators mentioned it. It does seem like the patterns might be breaking down faster. It seems like on the last two telecasts…scores seemed to go down as the time went on. It seems to have less effect on whomever is climbing the stepladder…I'm assuming because they are making small adjustments…and more effect on the guy waiting in the chair.

It was cool to hear Marshall again. It was cool to see Mark Roth and Carmen Salvino there watching. I disagreed with Pedersen about the Belmonte/Weber incident and I'm tempted to call "conspiracy theory" because it seems like the PBA would be really reluctant to talk negatively about the current face of bowling…and more likely to say he didn't technically do anything wrong.

[RobLV1]

I really wish you'd reconsider your view of the PBA league. As a league bowler, you can learn more by watching these telecasts than anything else the PBA shows. How often do you have to follow a bowler with a rev rate/ ball speed of Jason Belmonte?

[Aslan]

I really wish you'd reconsider your view of the PBA league. As a league bowler, you can learn more by watching these telecasts than anything else the PBA shows. How often do you have to follow a bowler with a rev rate/ ball speed of Jason Belmonte?

Wait…were you being sarcastic? Because the answer to question 2 is NEVER. That makes me think you were making a funny. :confused:

But no, I'm not changing my view of the PBA league until they change the format from a handful of made up pretend drafted pretend owned teams…to a more watchable format like some time of more expansive league format (which would take too much away from the WBT and Pro tour) OR they switch to a league where the ball manufactuers each have a team and bowl against each other.

[Aslan]

And we're on to the Player's Championship!!

Very excited about this one because I got 2 favorites…Bohn and Duke both competing in the Finals. Besides WRW, Parker is probably my favorite PBA bowler.

Looks like Duke lost to Daugherty in game 1…so there goes the hopes of Duke running the table and facing Bohn in the finals. Now I gotta cheer for Daugherty's thumbless nonsense over Belmonte's 2-handed nonsense…then another tough decision of who to root for in the Russel semi-final. Probably a rare time I root for Russell.

[epiepenburg]

Wow, what a show.....

[bubba809]

And we're on to the Player's Championship!!

Very excited about this one because I got 2 favorites…Bohn and Duke both competing in the Finals. Besides WRW, Parker is probably my favorite PBA bowler.

Looks like Duke lost to Daugherty in game 1…so there goes the hopes of Duke running the table and facing Bohn in the finals. Now I gotta cheer for Daugherty's thumbless nonsense over Belmonte's 2-handed nonsense…then another tough decision of who to root for in the Russel semi-final. Probably a rare time I root for Russell.


Ok, I'll bite Aslan, what do you have against Ronnie Russell?

[Aslan]

Ok, I'll bite Aslan, what do you have against Ronnie Russell?

He's just not the typical type of bowler I root for. I tend to root for the ole timers, straighter players. Thats all. Nothing against him personally and I don't root against him.

[NewToBowling]

He's just not the typical type of bowler I root for. I tend to root for the ole timers, straighter players. Thats all. Nothing against him personally and I don't root against him.

I'm the opposite. Love the new blood such as Belmonte, Russell, Rash, Fagan, etc. Basically ones with modern releases or in Belmo two handed.

WRW and PDW are great but I think you need people like above to be faces of bowling. Belmonte should be the face of bowling. He is a great ambassador to the sport.

He talks or does more things to get people interested in the sport than anyone. From his IAB to him winning basically every other PBA event to his youtube videos.

[jab5325]

I can't stand the two-handed and thumbless bowlers. It's hard to argue with Belmo's success, and I think he's a good guy.

I just like watching the varied styles on today's PBA tour. You have everything from two-handed guys, to huge backswings (Fagan, Russell), to Norm Duke......throw in guys with weird approaches like Mellott and Stu....it just shows you that shot repeatability matters more than anything.

[RobLV1]

I think that it's easy to forget that this is just bowling; knocking down the most pins with a bowling ball. One handed, two handed, thumb in, thumb out, it really doesn't matter. Yesterday's double event was a perfect example. I was rooting for Norm and Wes, but only because I know them. It had nothing to do with their styles. I was rooting against Belmonte, but again not because of his style, but because the couple of times I met him, I got the impression that he is extremely arrogant. Everyone else on the show, I really didn't care about one way or another, other than the fact that, however they bowl, they have reached an elite level that very few bowlers on the planet ever attain. Kudos to all of them for that!

[Aslan]

All that matters is....Norm Duke is now #3 in titles!!

Way to go Norm!! Now THATs a good day of bowling! Belmo loses...and Norm Duke moves to 3rd all-time ahead of Pete Weber. Come on PBIII!! You're next!! I want my favorite bowlers to be on top the list!! I don't think Mika is close enough to make it...but PBIII is right there...just needs a good season or 2.

Now...my PBA bowling watching on ESPN is done for 2015. I anxiously await the start of next year...and I'll be as active as possible watching Bowl.TV and PBAXTra Frame...but since I'm boycotting "The League" due to it's idiotic format...my ESPN time is done for 2015.

Although...I AM tempted to watch The League to root for the Styles and Atom Splitters since my favorite players are on those teams. WRW/PBIII on the Styles and Barnes/Mika on the Atom Splitters. Plus the Atom Splitters are Chris Hardwick's team...and I like him. So maybe I'll watch if those 2 teams are alive.

[RobLV1]

How about watching to learn about how elite bowlers make lane adjustments?

[jab5325]

I should have clarified: Rob, you are absolutely right regarding styles. If you develop something consistent and are good enough to be a pro, it doesn't matter if it's one-handed, thumbless....if they want to throw it overhand--I respect that greatly.

My comment was more toward league: There are several folks in my league who bowl two-handed and thumbless. The first game or two, they'll be in the 230s, 240s.....and then when things break down, they're literally in the 130s/140s because they have no idea how to adjust and can't control the ball. The first frame, they'll come through the nose and get a split.....next up is Brooklyn.....and then they barely get a solid hit on the 2-pin. So, they average in the 190-200 range, but their low scores are some of the lowest in the league.

[RobLV1]

I should have clarified: Rob, you are absolutely right regarding styles. If you develop something consistent and are good enough to be a pro, it doesn't matter if it's one-handed, thumbless....if they want to throw it overhand--I respect that greatly.

My comment was more toward league: There are several folks in my league who bowl two-handed and thumbless. The first game or two, they'll be in the 230s, 240s.....and then when things break down, they're literally in the 130s/140s because they have no idea how to adjust and can't control the ball. The first frame, they'll come through the nose and get a split.....next up is Brooklyn.....and then they barely get a solid hit on the 2-pin. So, they average in the 190-200 range, but their low scores are some of the lowest in the league.

The fact that they are in the 230's or 40's for the first two games is a great start. It's a hell-uv-a-lot easier to learn to adjust, than it is to up your rev rate and ball speed.

[Aslan]

How about watching to learn about how elite bowlers make lane adjustments?

Like that rapper throwing a back-up ball??

Listen, I'll watch the darn thing so long as the Styles and Atom splitters are alive...but I swear...to heaven above....if Flavor Flav comes running out onto the lanes or Kimberly Pressler asks the same question more than twice in a single telecast...I'm OUT.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Like that rapper throwing a back-up ball??

Listen, I'll watch the darn thing so long as the Styles and Atom splitters are alive...but I swear...to heaven above....if Flavor Flav comes running out onto the lanes or Kimberly Pressler asks the same question more than twice in a single telecast...I'm OUT.

If you are talking about the guy who won the chris paul tournament that threw a backup, i think he is a dj. Obviously you have no street cred if you didn't know that.:rolleyes:

[Aslan]

If you are talking about the guy who won the chris paul tournament that threw a backup, i think he is a dj. Obviously you have no street cred if you didn't know that.:rolleyes:

I gave up on street cred at about 30. Now I'm just counting the days until I need to wear adult briefs.

[NewToBowling]

So what's on for next week and beyond on ESPN?

[got_a_300]

So what's on for next week and beyond on ESPN?

Here you go the ESPN PBA TV schedule

PBA LEAGUE QUARTERFINALS Sunday, March 29, 2015 5:00 PM ET ESPN
PBA LEAGUE QUARTERFINALS Sunday, April 05, 2015 3:30 PM ET ESPN
PBA LEAGUE SEMIFINALS Sunday, April 12, 2015 2:00 PM ET ESPN
PBA LEAGUE ELIAS CUP FINALS Sunday, April 19, 2015 1:00 PM ET ESPN

[NewToBowling]

Wow, so nothing for a few weeks huh

[Aslan]

Wow, so nothing for a few weeks huh

Thats okay. Gives me a chance to watch hockey on NBC.

The thing that stinks is there's not much on Bowl.tv or PBAXtra frame either…so I've been watching old Mika footage on YouTube.

[Perrin]

Thats okay. Gives me a chance to watch hockey on NBC.

The thing that stinks is there's not much on Bowl.tv or PBAXtra frame either…so I've been watching old Mika footage on YouTube.

I watched the coverage on bowl tv of the USBC open championships last night. was pretty good. Interesting to see where everyone was playing the lanes.

I would have appreciated a bit more bowling know-how in the announcers though pattern talk/ball selection/playing the oil etc.