You know why recreational bowlers don't like bowling?

[Hendu71]

Leagues!

I thought I'd post this before I got too involved and forgot about this very annoying part of bowling. Bowling, to most casual players, is a spur of the moment type thing. "Hey, why don't we go bowling for a date tonight?" You can feel like going one day, and totally not feel it another, for maybe months. So, now that so many lanes have shut down, all the league players have aggregated into a couple alleys within reasonable driving distance. So, what is the recreational bowler likely to hear when they show up to their local bowling alley, or even call? We have league play for the rest of the night. What about tomorrow? Same thing, etc. etc. Bah, forget it. I can't tell you how many times that happened to me over the years.

Bowling, for much of the year, as an average person, is a weekend activity only. It basically took me becoming middle aged, trying to find a physical activity that wasn't gonna kill me, and that I could finally afford the equipment and regular practice session costs, for bowling not to become a once a year thing. And I have always liked bowling!

Problem is, most recreational activities, if you want to do it, you can. Every day of the week. Even at very popular restaurants, you can place a reservation, or wait an hour, and get in. Sold out movie? Buy tickets to the next one. Plus there are a ton of activities you can do for free. Bowling nowadays I think is perceived to outsiders as an exclusive activity like golf, except without the prestige.

Now, I'm not saying it's the league's fault. It totally isn't. But most people don't just wake up some morning and decide they want to join a bowling league. Usually it starts out doing it solely for fun. And when you're turned away because the alley is packed with dedicated players most days a week for a good portion of the year, it's off-putting and discouraging. Now, a packed alley full of league players is a good thing right? Not when you factor in that 2 bowling alleys near me shut down in the last few years. How are you supposed to get fresh blood? Trying to entice schools into bowling to get em young I don't think is good enough. It's not a sustainable business model imo.

[Geneo2u]

Good point, nothing to disagree with here, by closing houses that forces all the leagues into fewer houses, thus more money for them now, but what happens when i retire, there will be no one to take my place... seems short sided. Suppose after i am done with this sport i will not care...

[Aslan]

True Hendu.

It's always been like that. You used to have to call the bowling alley before going there to make sure they had "open bowling" and if it was a weeknight...usually no chance.

And it was something I always wanted to do...to join a bowling league. But I figured I'd need a job...coworkers...that were interested in bowling. I couldn't just "sign up". And in the old days, it WAS that way. Lots of leagues were "full" and you had to get on a waiting list in somce cases.

And even though I LOVE that I go to a center and it's PACKED...yeah...even I get annoyed when I want to practice and I get to the center and it's FULL. Then I gotta drive to another center or just scrap practice that week.

[Mudpuppy]

Leagues are a serious commitment. 30-36 weeks of bowling is no joke. It's not a casual thing at all.

The one lanes I bowl at do something horrific. They will fill league lanes of teams that are done or lanes that are open right next to leagues with open bowlers. A lot of the league bowlers have left those lanes because of that and due to that and many other issues this is my last year bowling a league there. Tired of it. Tired of being a solid contribution to their bottom line as a consistent league bowler and being treated like a second class citizen. They got it all wrong. Like the cable companies or cell phone companies who punish loyalty and reward the new customers.

[Sourtower]

Leagues are a serious commitment. 30-36 weeks of bowling is no joke. It's not a casual thing at all.

The one lanes I bowl at do something horrific. They will fill league lanes of teams that are done or lanes that are open right next to leagues with open bowlers. A lot of the league bowlers have left those lanes because of that and due to that and many other issues this is my last year bowling a league there. Tired of it. Tired of being a solid contribution to their bottom line as a consistent league bowler and being treated like a second class citizen. They got it all wrong. Like the cable companies or cell phone companies who punish loyalty and reward the new customers.

Sounds like it's time to move on. I couldn't even imagine how it would be when you're bowling as the anchor, going up there in the 10th frame of the 3rd game down by 25 pins and as you're about to start your approach, somebody who has no idea of lane courtesy walks up at the same time and throws at the same time as you do...

[Hendu71]

Leagues are a serious commitment. 30-36 weeks of bowling is no joke. It's not a casual thing at all.

The one lanes I bowl at do something horrific. They will fill league lanes of teams that are done or lanes that are open right next to leagues with open bowlers. A lot of the league bowlers have left those lanes because of that and due to that and many other issues this is my last year bowling a league there. Tired of it. Tired of being a solid contribution to their bottom line as a consistent league bowler and being treated like a second class citizen. They got it all wrong. Like the cable companies or cell phone companies who punish loyalty and reward the new customers.
It'd be nice if there was a way to partition the lanes. I've gone in an hour before leagues end, see a quarter of the lanes empty, and I'm like, HUH? What a waste of potential income!

Looks like this company does something like this

http://iceledscreens.wordpress.com/tag/led-mesh/

The partitioning would take some time to make its money back, but I think it wouldn't take that long.

[Monte]

Sounds like it's time to move on. I couldn't even imagine how it would be when you're bowling as the anchor, going up there in the 10th frame of the 3rd game down by 25 pins and as you're about to start your approach, somebody who has no idea of lane courtesy walks up at the same time and throws at the same time as you do...

Years ago when I bowled in the junior league, the bowling center in my town would always skip a lane or two between the league bowlers and the non league bowlers. They're under new ownership, so I don't know if they do that any more (I don't have a lot of time for a league right now), but I know they used to.

However, I know it can still be distracting to catch that out of your peripheral vision.

[white_rabbitt]

I am running into this same problem now. I am in a league but I also have a young son that is just getting into the sport. I'd like to take him in the evening when the interest is there but there are leagues every night including weekends in the centers near us. Not sure of a good solution? In the meantime, I guess we'll be waking up early on Sunday mornings to roll.

[Mudpuppy]

Oh it's been long overdue to move on. Most of the people I used to bowl with on Mondays there are gone. One of them is on my Tuesday team at another alley. I tolerated it because I like the owner but I am fed up and done with it. There is a local celebrity that bowls on my league. He prebowls EVERY week. Not fair. But because of who he is it's ok and they let him. His team won the league last year. And the lanes even hung a very special banner up there for him. It's ridiculous. Moving on once the league is over, never looking back.

[Aslan]

Leagues are a serious commitment. 30-36 weeks of bowling is no joke. It's not a casual thing at all.
I'd disagree with that. Once a week ya go there and sit around for 3 hours and eat pizza and drink beer. Thats a commitment?

I mean, sure...if you're like me and in two different leagues and one you have to get up at 6:30AM on a Sunday for...and you're committed to improvement so you get monthly or bi-monthly lessons and practice 12 games a week minimum...yeah, THATs commitment. But most league bowlers are a joke. They treat bowling the way I treat golf. They show up for league night once a week and can't figure out why their average doesn't go up.


Tired of being a solid contribution to their bottom line as a consistent league bowler and being treated like a second class citizen.

TOTALLY agree there. Too many bowling center proprieters have bought into the new bowling center model where the center is more for birthday parties and laser tag and a night club environment. League bowlers just get in the way nowadays. Granted, they usually go under once their leagues leave...but by the time they realize the new bowling center models are wrong...it's too late.

[Sourtower]

Oh it's been long overdue to move on. Most of the people I used to bowl with on Mondays there are gone. One of them is on my Tuesday team at another alley. I tolerated it because I like the owner but I am fed up and done with it. There is a local celebrity that bowls on my league. He prebowls EVERY week. Not fair. But because of who he is it's ok and they let him. His team won the league last year. And the lanes even hung a very special banner up there for him. It's ridiculous. Moving on once the league is over, never looking back.

I luckily live 15 min away from at least 5 different bowling alleys. Unfortunately, my good friend whom I bowl with lives 45 min away from those same bowling alleys. Hopefully the current bowling alley we bowl 2 out of our 3 leagues with doesn't become like that bowling alley.

[Blacksox1]

Leagues are a serious commitment. 30-36 weeks of bowling is no joke. It's not a casual thing at all.

The one lanes I bowl at do something horrific. They will fill league lanes of teams that are done or lanes that are open right next to leagues with open bowlers. A lot of the league bowlers have left those lanes because of that and due to that and many other issues this is my last year bowling a league there. Tired of it. Tired of being a solid contribution to their bottom line as a consistent league bowler and being treated like a second class citizen. They got it all wrong. Like the cable companies or cell phone companies who punish loyalty and reward the new customers.

Agree, leagues are a contract between the house and the bowlers for XX weeks.



Oh it's been long overdue to move on. Most of the people I used to bowl with on Mondays there are gone. One of them is on my Tuesday team at another alley. I tolerated it because I like the owner but I am fed up and done with it. There is a local celebrity that bowls on my league. He prebowls EVERY week. Not fair. But because of who he is it's ok and they let him. His team won the league last year. And the lanes even hung a very special banner up there for him. It's ridiculous. Moving on once the league is over, never looking back.

That is a steaming pile of Shenanigans to allow the pre-bowl every week. Special banner too. LOL. If my sharpie could reach it, I would add some expressive and creative doodles. :D

[Amyers]

I'd disagree with that. Once a week ya go there and sit around for 3 hours and eat pizza and drink beer. Thats a commitment?

I mean, sure...if you're like me and in two different leagues and one you have to get up at 6:30AM on a Sunday for...and you're committed to improvement so you get monthly or bi-monthly lessons and practice 12 games a week minimum...yeah, THATs commitment. But most league bowlers are a joke. They treat bowling the way I treat golf. They show up for league night once a week and can't figure out why their average doesn't go up.



I agree with this 100%. I don't mind the people who show up once a week and bowl their games drink their beer and go home. The ones that get on my nerves are the ones who show up once a week kick the ball return get mad about their scores and if you ask them about practice it sounds like a replay from a Alan Iverson conversation.

[circlecity]

I'd disagree with that. Once a week ya go there and sit around for 3 hours and eat pizza and drink beer. Thats a commitment?

My wednesday league has an overall average of 196. Not much eating and drinking going on and would guess the better the league the less pizza and beer you will find.

[rv driver]

Yeah, I can't drink, eat, and bowl well.

[Mudpuppy]

I'd disagree with that. Once a week ya go there and sit around for 3 hours and eat pizza and drink beer. Thats a commitment?

I mean, sure...if you're like me and in two different leagues and one you have to get up at 6:30AM on a Sunday for...and you're committed to improvement so you get monthly or bi-monthly lessons and practice 12 games a week minimum...yeah, THATs commitment. But most league bowlers are a joke. They treat bowling the way I treat golf. They show up for league night once a week and can't figure out why their average doesn't go up.



TOTALLY agree there. Too many bowling center proprieters have bought into the new bowling center model where the center is more for birthday parties and laser tag and a night club environment. League bowlers just get in the way nowadays. Granted, they usually go under once their leagues leave...but by the time they realize the new bowling center models are wrong...it's too late.

How can you disagree a league is a commitment? You are committing to pay "x" amount, be there every week (or most weeks) and bowl instead of say watching a re-run of jeopardy and eating wish sammiches because you wish you were bowling instead of sitting around watching jeopardy.

So you are splitting hairs with your opinion of the definition of "commitment". And maybe you don't have 30 kids like I do. It's a SERIOUS commitment for me to be able to take 1 night a week away from all the things that have to be done to take care of kids, etc. So maybe for you it's not that much of a commitment because either you would sit around, drink beer, eat pizza and bowl or you would just sit at home staring at four walls. Then it is not as much of a commitment. But still technically a commitment. You agree to be there and pay, or am I wrong? Does the almighty Aslan, Lion king of the universe, have a corporate sponsor so he doesn't have to pay and his appearance is optional each week because everyone within 50 miles of the bowling alley are blessed simply by his great presence? Please enlighten me.

[Amyers]

How can you disagree a league is a commitment? You are committing to pay "x" amount, be there every week (or most weeks) and bowl instead of say watching a re-run of jeopardy and eating wish sammiches because you wish you were bowling instead of sitting around watching jeopardy.

So you are splitting hairs with your opinion of the definition of "commitment". And maybe you don't have 30 kids like I do. It's a SERIOUS commitment for me to be able to take 1 night a week away from all the things that have to be done to take care of kids, etc. So maybe for you it's not that much of a commitment because either you would sit around, drink beer, eat pizza and bowl or you would just sit at home staring at four walls. Then it is not as much of a commitment. But still technically a commitment. You agree to be there and pay, or am I wrong? Does the almighty Aslan, Lion king of the universe, have a corporate sponsor so he doesn't have to pay and his appearance is optional each week because everyone within 50 miles of the bowling alley are blessed simply by his great presence? Please enlighten me.

I think what he was getting at for a lot of us one league one night a week isn't much of a commitment. I work about 50 hours a week but I know my exact schedule and it doesn't really change I have two kids but they are responsible and capable to seeing to themselves for a couple of hours if need be and I refuse to be one of these people with commitments out the wazoo and have every second of my life scheduled. So for me even two leagues and practice once a week isn't a big deal.

Other people I know keep every second scheduled or have jobs that tie them up at inadvertent times and once a week and sometime not that is hard. I will say a lot of these people bring this crap on themselves also by overcommitting themselves or just having two many interest. I have family, I work, I bowl, and occasionally fish. That's it so my nights are not really hectic but not everyone lives that way. My friends who are the opposite I respect what they do but I have no idea why you want to live like that.

[Sourtower]

I agree with this 100%. I don't mind the people who show up once a week and bowl their games drink their beer and go home. The ones that get on my nerves are the ones who show up once a week kick the ball return get mad about their scores and if you ask them about practice it sounds like a replay from a Alan Iverson conversation.

"We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice. Not a game. Not, not … Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game, but we're talking about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that?"

[Konvict1982]

I guess I am in one of the lucky houses. Our youth program is full every season filling 20 lanes and often not having enough room for all the youth that want to bowl league. Our local high school is finished their season 26w/1L for both boys and girls teams. Our adult leagues however only fill half the house each night with the exception of Tuesday nights Commercial League which fills 2/3 of the house and Friday nights 2 leagues run Friday Night mixed and The special needs league fills the whole house.

Our future looks good because our youth program is much larger than the current adult leagues and with luck those young bowlers will continue bowling and rebuilding the dwindling adult leagues here. The only real issue I know of is the company that owns our local house built a new house about 60 miles north of us closer to Nashville and have been taking profits from our smaller house (which has a lot of profit due to the huge youth program) to offer bigger payouts in their new house which has a lot of bowlers moving to a small house in the neighboring town for leagues to protest this. I know the current manager has been trying to buy the local house for years but the company won't sell because the house brings in a lot of profit yet they refuse to put money back into the local house where their new house barely breaks even.

I wish I had the money to open a nice house here because I am fairly sure it would turn a profit due to the fact that the run down house here turns more profit yearly than most houses in large cities simply because of the amount of support from the community.

[Aslan]

So you are splitting hairs with your opinion of the definition of "commitment". And maybe you don't have 30 kids like I do. It's a SERIOUS commitment for me to be able to take 1 night a week away from all the things that have to be done to take care of kids, etc.

Not my fault you've decided to re-populate the Earth with a Walton size household.


So maybe for you it's not that much of a commitment because either you would sit around, drink beer, eat pizza and bowl or you would just sit at home staring at four walls. Then it is not as much of a commitment.
Exactly.

I used to get annoyed with my Thursday league because they were primarily new bowlers (to leagues) and they were all pissed that on a Thursday night they got stuck at the bowling alley for 3.5 hours. They thought bowling leagues would take like 1 hour or something.

And I guess I just don't understand that mindset. If I'm NOT bowling on Thursday night...what am I doing? I'm not trying to fit league bowling in between two surgeries I have scheduled. It's a Thursday night and I'm 40 years old. What is the big item on my Thursday schedule that bowling is interfering with? The Office isn't on anymore...so there goes the must see Thursday TV excuse.

I asked these melon tards, "If you weren't here...what would you be doing thats so important?" and they kinda responded, "Well, I'd be home reading the paper or watching the news...relacing and falling asleep in my chair." or "I don't know...going to bed early."

You SEE MUD...whether bowling is a commitment is determined by how much of a LIFE you actually have. If you're a high school kid and in numerous sports and academic things...and have a job after school at a diner...maybe 3.5 hours on every Thursday night is a bigger deal. If you're a surgeon on call at the hospital...or a person working 2 jobs...okay...it could be a big deal. But most of us are NOT those things. And if we spend 3.5 hours at the bowling alley....thats an alternative to spending 3.5 hours watching TV, playing with stuff in the garage, playing the XBox, or doing some stupid house chore we don't want to do anyways.


But still technically a commitment. You agree to be there and pay, or am I wrong? Does the almighty Aslan, Lion king of the universe, have a corporate sponsor so he doesn't have to pay and his appearance is optional each week because everyone within 50 miles of the bowling alley are blessed simply by his great presence? Please enlighten me.
Technically I only answered because you wanted to be enlightened and said please.

Hey...if needing to be somewhere for 3.5 hours a week is a "huge commitment"....then I can't imagine having hobbies that require more than that. No wonder Lion's Clubs, Rotary Clubs, Knights of Columbus, Elks Lodges, Shriners, etc.. are losing ground...if you think 3.5 hours of bowling is an unmanageable commitment...man...try joining a club or political group or volunteer group.

Bowling is way less of a commitment than other sports/things I've been a part of:

- Figure Skating....hours and hours of practice almost every day. (of matter of fact, I only became a figure skater because as a kid my sister was and I got too bored sitting around the ice rink for hours upon hours doing absolutely nothing...figured, "well, if I HAVE to be here...might as well learn to skate")
- Bands...huge commitment of time and practicing and gigs.
- HS Football...2-3 hours of practice EVERY NIGHT...film once a week...weight room time during the week...and 4-6 hours on gameday.
- HS Tennis...2 hours of practice EVERY NIGHT...the actual matches...would take up an entire evening or entire day.
- academics/college degrees...class on multiple days a week, homework, studying, etc...
- ice hockey (as an adult hobby)...3-5 hours once a week...practice about 3 hours once a week...
- Martial Arts....HUGE commitment...3 times a week...3 hours a day of practice...testing, tournaments...etc...
- MOTORCYCLING....join a club, go on organized rides....you're looking at at LEAST 1-2 weekend days a month where you're commiting 6-14 hours to riding.
- paintball (as an adult hobby)....supplies...cleaning, fixing, testing, maintaining equipment....an entire weekend day lost at least monthly for an event...it could be 1-5 hours during the week and another 6-10 at an event.

So yeah...to ME...bowling is relatively commitment free when I compare it to other activities from my past. Even DATING is a bigger commitment than bowling because you're gonna go out for at least 2 hours once a week...and have to keep in touch in between meetings...schedule dates with other people if it's casually dating...maybe thats 2-3 nights a week? If it's a committed relationship...you're looking at seeing each other 3-4 times a week...2-3 hours each time???

Mudpuppy Cliff Note Conculsion:
A LOT of whether or not something is in fact a "commitment" is:

1) Do you enjoy it?
2) How busy is your life?
3) How "rich"/"poor" are you?

If you don't enjoy bowling...any time you have to do it is a commitment. And there are lots of people that "say" they enjoy bowling but when they actually are doing it they kinda wish they were somewhere else. For others, like me, I spend ALL WEEK anticipating league night. I CAN'T WAIT! It KILLS me that my league is on hold for the next 3 weeks!!

Some people have lots of stuff going on...lots of hobbies. I used to try to do motorcycling, paintball, and ice hockey as well as be very active in fantasy baseball and fantasy football....and at the same time juggle a demanding job and a young child. Some people have TWO jobs...or travel a lot for work. I don't have that problem. I travel rarely...my job is cushy with relaxed hours...and my kid is grown enough that I can bring her with me to league night if her mom is working. And I've given up all my other hobbies because I love to bowl. I don't even run anymore (which is a bad thing since it was my only source of exercise).

And absolutely money is an issue. But bowling is SO LESS expensive than many other hobbies. I could only go motorcycling or play paintball once per month or once every other month. Just too costly. I could never afford to play in more than one hockey league or do martial arts like I used to...too costly. And even now...I'd bowl in 3-4 leagues if I could afford it. But 2 is about the maximum I can manage right now....if I still want to practice, take lessons, etc...

So it's all relative. You have your reasons (too many kids)...what I don't get are the 60-year olds with grown kids...that have no hobbies or obligations...that complain because the league pace is moving a little slow and now they won't be home till 10PM which will delay their falling asleep in the chair watching TV.

[Mudpuppy]

it's still a commitment

[Amyers]

My Sunday night league is only 2 two a lane so if 1 or 2 people are missing the nights over in like an hour. When I have one of those nights I feel kind of disappointed I would rather be at the bowling alley than at home watching tv or listening to the kids fight any day any time.

[Sourtower]

My Sunday night league is only 2 two a lane so if 1 or 2 people are missing the nights over in like an hour. When I have one of those nights I feel kind of disappointed I would rather be at the bowling alley than at home watching tv or listening to the kids fight any day any time.

Yeah. My Monday night league is 4 per team. 2 weeks ago only 2 people showed up on the team we were playing and we were missing a guy as well. The night went by so quick and it was a huge disappointment.

[Bradski9]

Half the league is missing every week for me so I get done with league in 30-45 minutes.. It sucks

[Sourtower]

Half the league is missing every week for me so I get done with league in 30-45 minutes.. It sucks

I couldn't even imagine if that was the case for me. I like my 2 hours of bowling time.

[Ryster]

Agree, leagues are a contract between the house and the bowlers for XX weeks.




That is a steaming pile of Shenanigans to allow the pre-bowl every week. Special banner too. LOL. If my sharpie could reach it, I would add some expressive and creative doodles. :D

If the league by-laws allow for unlimited pre-bowling for the season, there is really no rule being broken. My Sunday night league has no limit on pre-bowling. If I wanted to pre-bowl the whole season I could.

The special banner is a bit much...

[Blomer]

My league is pretty good. We have about 20 teams and rarely does a team ahve less than 4 when its a 5 person team league. Our matches last 2.5 hours usually.

[astrodanco]

Dear open bowlers, please don't be so sad, it works both ways, especially since BowlMor cut center hours. As a league bowler who needs to practice, I can't even think of doing so on Friday evening, all day Saturday or all day Sunday. Those are wild party days and cosmic bowling nights, the center is full of open bowlers and there's a long waiting list. I can't practice after league either because the center is once again full of open bowlers, there is a long waiting list and they like to turn the lights off at the drop of a hat. The only time I can squeeze in is weekdays about two hours before league time when most people are busy eating dinner. Even then it's a race with the lane machine before it reaches my pair and I get kicked off.

[Aslan]

Dear open bowlers, please don't be so sad, it works both ways, especially since BowlMor cut center hours. As a league bowler who needs to practice, I can't even think of doing so on Friday evening, all day Saturday or all day Sunday. Those are wild party days and cosmic bowling nights, the center is full of open bowlers and there's a long waiting list. I can't practice after league either because the center is once again full of open bowlers, there is a long waiting list and they like to turn the lights off at the drop of a hat. The only time I can squeeze in is weekdays about two hours before league time when most people are busy eating dinner. Even then it's a race with the lane machine before it reaches my pair and I get kicked off.

True Dat.

My home center is quite popular with the college crowd and young adults. So getting there after 5PM...especially when leagues are taking up many of the lanes....good luck! I've gotten there on a Monday at 5:30PM and been told there is a 45 minute wait for a lane. In the summer, they raised their rates so I started practicing in the dark from 9:30PM to 12AM on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

Since most league bowlers are lame and don't practice...it's not a huge deal for everyone. But for those of us committed to improvement...practice is essential and it's definitely beneficial to practice where you bowl your league games...but not always easy to do so. Even in my Sunday morning league that starts at 8AM...I'll get there and the place will be nearly filled and if I want to practice on THS conditions when sport league is over...there's a waiting list.

Bowling definitely is alive and kicking...it just took a lot of centers going under and now the remaining centers are pretty full.

And AMF/Bowlmor are idiots. They immediately closed at least 2 centers around me for all bowling before like 4PM on weekdays...which pushed all their senior leagues out...so now the private center nearby is packed from morning to night.

[mike_thomas93]

Wow that's tough to hear. So you rarely get a chance to go and practice then, huh?

[Aslan]

Wow that's tough to hear. So you rarely get a chance to go and practice then, huh?

Well…I'm an exception to the rule in that I'll drive an hour to practice if I have to. But I did almost change centers over it before this season started if they were going to keep the price increase in place on Mondays. I was THAT sick of practicing with the lights off next to drunk college kids in the middle of the night on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.