What ball do you start with?

[bobforsaken]

This is and arsenal and strategy question.

I've read somewhere that most people start with their most aggressive ball and then go to their weaker balls as their bowling session wears on. What strategy do you use to choose what ball you start with?

Of course it depends on the pattern I'm sure, But I'd like to hear the thought process.

For example: "When playing shorter patterns, I play with high RG balls starting with my weakest low flare ball and when I get deeper after the lanes transition I move deep inside and play a slightly more aggressive high RG ball with max flare" "when playing longer patterns, I play with my low RG Balls starting with a hybrid and switch to a pearl later in the session after I've moved inside and started targeting between 3rd and 4th arrow."

[BDOG10]

Normally for me in league play I will start with my benchmark ball.. (mid performance) then if I am not seeing the reaction that I like I will either move on the lane or make a ball change based on the amount of carry I am getting. It certainly depends on the style of the bowler you are a more aggressive ball will certainly get you hooking the ball but also keep in mind that if you adjust your feet and ball speed it could certainly help you stay with the equipment you start the day with.

[vgw]

During league practice, I begin with a reactive resin ball that I use as my spare ball just to get any kinks out. After about 2-3 shots, I go to my medium ball. Depending on the reaction, I can change up or down, but my league shot doesn't change drastically from week-to-week so I already have a good idea of what my line will be.

[bobforsaken]

Interesting.. does anyone vary between arcing or lower flare balls and skid/snap balls? This is still a work in progress but I tend to start with more arcing and rolling balls when starting out . This is generally when I'm playing the track area and it is more forgiving when it starts to go high or if I make a bad shot. As I move deeper I tend to move to a more skid snap reaction.

My thought process on this is because the skid snap may help keep good entry angle where the arcing balls would hit more straight on the deeper I went. That may be just my own backwards thinking.

Am I alone on this, or do most people just have their favorite reaction and work with that no matter where they are on the lane and switch balls if they run into too much oil or too little oil?

[fortheloveofbowling]

Interesting.. does anyone vary between arcing or lower flare balls and skid/snap balls? This is still a work in progress but I tend to start with more arcing and rolling balls when starting out . This is generally when I'm playing the track area and it is more forgiving when it starts to go high or if I make a bad shot. As I move deeper I tend to move to a more skid snap reaction.

My thought process on this is because the skid snap may help keep good entry angle where the arcing balls would hit more straight on the deeper I went. That may be just my own backwards thinking.

Am I alone on this, or do most people just have their favorite reaction and work with that no matter where they are on the lane and switch balls if they run into too much oil or too little oil?

Generally i have the same type of thought process with arching type and more backend tyoe of reactions and where i play the lane. But that is not always the case and you should really let your game, the ball, and the lane tell you what to do. I usually prefer to play closer to the dry with something stronger to minimize the reaction downlane. But the reason you play out is to create angle for carry the same as you said using a skid flip for that inside. If my ball speed control is really feeling good and i can play out with something that moves more on the back i will do it. Conversely, if i have moved in with a ball that flips harder on the back and i'm seeing some over/under i might go with a ball more arching and close down my angles inside. The point is you can't tie yourself down to certain ways of playing a lane with a certain ball. I think it is important to throw a couple different balls in practice and if you brought more maybe 3. I always throw at least 2 balls in practice on multiple lines just to see what is out there. Also, who you are bowling with and how you perceive that might affect you is important in ball choice as well.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Just to follow up on a few things with this topic.

When we have topics like this i assume we are talking about house shots for the most part. House shots as we know are more open to different ways of thinking and playing the lanes. Now if we are talking about tougher or sport shots then especially when bowling with more experienced players on defined patterns there are usually more standard ways of lane play, movements, ball selection, and ball progression.

Regardless of your ball selection and how you play the lane you have to be confident of your choice. It is hard to out bowl a bad reaction but if your 100% confident before your shot even with the wrong ball your going to make a better shot and be better off. That way you know that i have made a consistent shot with speed, targeting, and release and can adjust with a different ball the next frame if needed. This is part of where the mental game comes into play. You have to be 100% CONFIDENT with your decisions when you choose a ball and a target.

[RobLV1]

Depending on how many balls you typically bring with you, ideally you will throw a shot or two with each ball to see what kind of reaction you get. Generally, the more you can avoid preconceptions about anything in bowling, the better off you will be. This goes for house shots and sport shots alike.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Depending on how many balls you typically bring with you, ideally you will throw a shot or two with each ball to see what kind of reaction you get. Generally, the more you can avoid preconceptions about anything in bowling, the better off you will be. This goes for house shots and sport shots alike.

You got that right about preconceptions. That has really cost me when bowling in the usbc open several times.

[bobforsaken]

Good info, Fortheloveofbowling. I guess I try to do the same things. I've need lots of improvement to do with my physical game so knowing what to do and doing it are two different challenges. Practice will get me better with execution, but if I can control "Knowing" what to do, then at least i'm progressing. Everything you said about how you play the lanes and react are what I've thought was what I would do. I do need to get better at reading the ball down lane and through the pin deck to predict moves. (Ie recognizing that I'm getting over under due to drift on my approach vs the break point drying out) Its helpful to know that I'm on the right track as far as understanding, even if recognition and execution is a ways off.

[Aslan]

When I started bowling, I tried to start with my most aggressive ball, playing one line, and would move feet, target, feet, target…then ball down and move back to the original target/feet position.

I then re-thought that process when I grew my arsenal from 1 to 2 to 3 to 5…and I started a more "3-line/Benchmark" system. In that 'system', I started with the 3rd most aggressive ball…and chose between 3 potential lines. Depending on the line and how things were going…I ball up or down accordingly. And the progression was different for each line.

However, recently, my coach simplified that 'system' and I'm back to starting with the most aggressive and also trying the next most aggressive in practice. Since I'm trying two balls during practice…I limited the lines from 3 potential lines to 2 potential lines. Then during the game I will ball down but stay on that line.

I still like my benchmark/3-line system. It's more complicated…but I think it makes a lot of sense. But…gotta follow the coach advice. I did maintain the 2-line system at least. The coach wanted me to pick just one line…and I agree with Rob that I really think there's value to trying at least 2 different lines to see what the lanes are telling you.

[bobforsaken]

I then re-thought that process when I grew my arsenal from 1 to 2 to 3 to 5…and I started a more "3-line/Benchmark" system. In that 'system', I started with the 3rd most aggressive ball…and chose between 3 potential lines. .

You said something that may have enlightened me. "3 potential lines!?!? I end up where I end up based on a chosen break point!?!?! moreover, all my balls essentially play that same line with just subtle differences in terms of entry angle and carry. (and maybe a slight difference in hitting higher or weaker on the head pin)" is what I thought when reading your post.

I've been so focused on being consistent with my release and approach that maybe I'm not doing the changes I should. I can stand at 19 and throw to 12.. hit the pocket.. stand at 25 to 15.. hit the pocket and stand at 35 target somewhere in the neighborhood of the 4th arrow and hit the pocket on three consecutive balls by changing speed and axis rotation. (ok.. maybe not 3 consecutive shots.. but given the same lane condition and some trial and error when moving). But I've locked myself in to the same speed and same release.. when that starts to overreact, move 2 and 1.. lather/rinse/repeat.

Maybe what I need to do is start practicing staying with my same line and adjust my index finger... or speed... Make the subtle changes more often and the lateral changes/ball changes less often. Unfortunately, I too often find a 3-4 frame hole in my game when I move laterally because I run into unexpected conditions which make me move again.. and again... Where I may have been better off making a small adjustment to my release or approach to stay on the line that was working so well for me.

[RobLV1]

Unfortunately, I too often find a 3-4 frame hole in my game when I move laterally because I run into unexpected conditions which make me move again.. and again... Where I may have been better off making a small adjustment to my release or approach to stay on the line that was working so well for me.

If you are bowling on freshly oiled lanes, there shouldn't be any "unexpected conditions," at least not if you are paying attention. Any unexpected friction that you find inside your line has to be caused by someone else's bowling ball. It's a very good idea to work on becoming aware of what line each bowler on the pair is using. If you can move in without finding friction that was created by someone else's bowling ball, your lateral moves should continue to work. If, on the other hand, you run into someone else's line, then you need to decide if you can make a much larger than "normal" move to get inside of the other persons line, or if you can "ball down" and try to stay where you are for a while longer.

[Aslan]

You said something that may have enlightened me. "3 potential lines!?!? I end up where I end up based on a chosen break point!?!?! moreover, all my balls essentially play that same line with just subtle differences in terms of entry angle and carry. (and maybe a slight difference in hitting higher or weaker on the head pin)" is what I thought when reading your post.

Most bowlers should have 3 speeds and 3 lines. One line usually represents your "A-Game"…the line you usually do best with and are most comfortable with. Then there is a "B-Game" and a "C-Game" accordingly. For me, my "A-Game" is up the 5-8 boards…outside in. Sometimes that line works well…most of the time it does. But sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's too dry out there. Sometimes the pattern is too long or too wide/flat and the ball won't come back.

So that leads to my "B-Game" up 2nd arrow…10-12 boards. Lots of the times, thats a reliable place to play and find the pocket consistently. Rarely, I'd go with my "C-Game" where I'm playing more inside. Maybe standing 35 and throwing more around 18-20 at the arrows. It's not a shot I'm good at. I usually have to really lower my speed and add some hand to play that line…it's just not comfortable right now.

But thats what I mean by "3 lines". What I've seen…even of pros…is if they fall in love with just ONE line…there are going to be nights where they can't seem to hit the pocket consistently or even when they do…things don't happen…weak hits, etc… I think thats one big disadvantage for high rev players that are lofting the gutters. If you're THAT deep on the lane…you got nowhere to go. And if you can't throw a straight shot…you're in your bag frantically looking for a urethane ball…because you have no other options than ball changes.

It's also why I liked my "3-line/Benchmark" system. I liked having the options…3 lines I could play…maybe a different one on each lane sometimes. And maybe I ball UP…maybe I ball DOWN. But…part of embracing coaching (rather than gifts <----invoking IceGod wrath so he'll return)…is doing things you're asked to do and giving those things a REAL chance. If I'm not happy with my performance, which I won't be until I'm winning meaningful tournaments, then I have to do what I'm told by the coach/pros…and at LEAST give their advice a real chance. I DID keep two lines…despite the coach recommending one though. I'm just not comfortable standing 22 and throwing 12 and just saying, "well, I sure hope this line is good today". I WANT the ability to go more outside. If the outside is playable…I WANT to play there. I also want the flexibility so I don't have to play where everyone is playing.

It's one of the concepts I've taken to heart from working with Rob M. in Vegas. He's big on letting the lanes dictate where and how you play them rather than try to impose your will on the lanes and force a round peg into a square hole. My only disadvantage in truly and fully embracing that concept is I don't have the ability to move in too far right now. I just don't have the hand and I don't have the aggressive skid/flip ball…and if you can't create that big angle…how far left you can viably play is limited.

[RobLV1]

Aslan: I have nothing but respect for you dedication to the game of bowling. That being said, to equate three lines of play to an "A" game, a "B" game, and a "C" game is rediculous, with or without speed changes. You often cite Norm Duke as one of your idols. Norm throws the same shot whether he is playing three board, seven board, ten board, or 15 board. That is his "A" game. When he is forced to go to his "B" game, he moves way left, changes his release, and hooks the ball. That's it. "A" game and "B" game. Just because you have not yet reached the point where you are comfortable playing different parts of the lane, does not automatically make it a rule that should be taught to others who may or may not be able to do it themselves. Personally, I'm prettey comfortable playing from far outside in to about 17. Left of seventeen is still a work in progress for me. This does not mean that I tell others not to do it. Being a coach is about helping people with their games, not equating their games to your own.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I think people need to always remember that when aslan, vdub, myself, or anyone that is not a coach gives advice it is our opinion on how to do something. That advice is not necessarily going to work for a certain individual or maybe anyone else but us. But that is what practice is for, to try new things.

[Aslan]

to equate three lines of play to an "A" game, a "B" game, and a "C" game is rediculous, with or without speed changes.
I don't see how given that I've heard PBA bowlers specifically cite being able to play their "A-Game" in reference to the "outside and in line".


You often cite Norm Duke as one of your idols. Norm throws the same shot whether he is playing three board, seven board, ten board, or 15 board. That is his "A" game.
This seems like we're saying the same thing. Norm has an approach/release/speed…but has the ability to play multiple lines. That makes sense. Varying release and speed is not usually what a bowler prefers to do because a lot of times you're fighting muscle memory.


When he is forced to go to his "B" game, he moves way left, changes his release, and hooks the ball. That's it. "A" game and "B" game.
Okay…I'm not understanding the point. Norm simply has different terminology for "A-Game" versus "B-Game". But you're telling me that most high level bowlers don't have the ability to vary things other than lines, balls, and a release change?? After we just watched Mika win the Viper by adding loft to his shot…which he is a master at and has been for years?? You're telling me a pro never switches from a 5 to a 4 or 4 to a 3 step approach? That a pro never alters their swing height? Never?


Just because you have not yet reached the point where you are comfortable playing different parts of the lane, does not automatically make it a rule that should be taught to others who may or may not be able to do it themselves. Personally, I'm prettey comfortable playing from far outside in to about 17. Left of seventeen is still a work in progress for me. This does not mean that I tell others not to do it. Being a coach is about helping people with their games, not equating their games to your own.

Again, I don't think I told anyone not to do it. I think to reach a high level eventually a bowler MUST be able to open up the lane and move into that left side. I didn't mean to imply that someone shouldn't do it. The opposite actually…I mentioned 3 lines and 3 speeds (which I got from a recent USBC Better Bowling video just fyi) because I DO think there's value in developing that 3rd line…opening up the lane. I merely stated that for ME..like YOU…it's a work in progress (for me left of 13). If I venture inside too much…I have NO CHOICE but to change my speed…maybe even more hand. I kinda sound like Norm Duke according to your description!!

And since I (like Norm probably) don't like to alter my speed or release or approach…I'd prefer a ball change or a lateral movement…or something less disruptive/drastic…I consider that my "C-Game". Just like Norm…except I guess he only has an "A" and a "B".

I have 2 examples for illustration:

1) Last season I played my "C-Game" ONCE…played inside (for me thats standing around 28-38…aiming 17-21 at the arrows). I did it because my benchmark balls were missing left playing the outside and the track. Cliff Notes: It was HORRIBLE. I tried throwing it the same way I normally would…but the ball wouldn't come back. I tried moving right…that wasn't working. I tried changing vertical targeting…that wasn't working. Finally I had no choice but to slow the speed and add some "hand". I didn't "like" it. And I wasn't "good" at it. Work in progress.

2) A couple league nights ago I shot a 138-233-153.

In Game 1, I just couldn't get reaction. Washout after washout…right of the pocket time after time. I tried moving right…adjusting my target left…nothing was working. I decided that I simply HAD to slow my 14.7mph shot down. I didn't WANT to. It's a dangerous game when you are working hard on improving your release…to start messing with your timing and release…but I had no choice.

In Game 2 I made that "slower speed" decision after frame 2…then threw a turkey, missed right in the 6th but converted the 1-2…then threw a 4-bagger…then a 9 - to close out the 10th. The guy on the other team asked me "what got into me" and I told him I "just had to slow things down to get a reaction" and he chuckled and responded, "could you speed it back up please? You're killing us!!"

In Game 3, I don't remember what happened…but I'm pretty sure it was more bad shooting and execution…with Brandy & water contributing.

So in those 2 examples:
1) I played my "C-Game" in terms of having to play the inside line. I guess you could call it my "C-Line".
2) I played my "Norm Duke B-Game" because I didn't change my line…or my ball…but I had to alter my "game…physical game" to adapt to what the lane was dictating.

See…this is confusing because I thought you'd be the top supporter of my advice. It's based on embracing YOUR philosophy that you listen to what the lanes tell you and don't just play 2nd arrow because thats where you're comfortable. Granted, my "system" makes it a more complicated process…there are spreadsheets involved…but it's really just a work in progress.

I agree with FTLOB. I didn't mean to "advocate" anything in my post or even tell the OP what he/she should do. I was just sharing what I DO/DID. When I actually give advice…which is rare…I try to preface it by adding the Disclaimer that "I am a horrible bowler and nobody should listen to me". And while that may be a slight embellishment….it really IS TRUE. These days, any bowler with an average under 175 is a below average bowler. And the point could be made that bowlers under 195 on a THS are "non-competitive" in the big scheme of things. So yeah…my composite average is like 167…so I wouldn't take advice from me. But I still offer it. Maybe it'll have some tertiary effect where the person will do the opposite or something and that will improve their game. As long as I can help!

[RobLV1]

Aslan: The bottom line, one again, is that your need to turn everything into a system hurts your bowling. There are three basic adjustments that most bowlers can make successfully, and by most bowlers I'm talking about non-professionals: lateral moves, ball changes, and hand position changes. With the use of lateral movements inevitably comes a comfort zone, a range of movement where the bowler can bowl successfully. At your level right now, or at least as of the last time I saw you bowl, mastering these three elements will give you a very good chance of becoming the bowler that you want to be. Please note that I did not list speed changes and loft changes to this list. Obviously both can be used effectively, but both can really mess with the other elements of your game if those other elements are not yet firmly established. From one over-thinker to another, if you can simplify your game at this point, work on the basics, and above all, have fun, then sets like 138-233-153 would become a thing of the past.

[Amyers]

Aslan: The bottom line, one again, is that your need to turn everything into a system hurts your bowling. There are three basic adjustments that most bowlers can make successfully, and by most bowlers I'm talking about non-professionals: lateral moves, ball changes, and hand position changes. With the use of lateral movements inevitably comes a comfort zone, a range of movement where the bowler can bowl successfully. At your level right now, or at least as of the last time I saw you bowl, mastering these three elements will give you a very good chance of becoming the bowler that you want to be. Please note that I did not list speed changes and loft changes to this list. Obviously both can be used effectively, but both can really mess with the other elements of your game if those other elements are not yet firmly established. From one over-thinker to another, if you can simplify your game at this point, work on the basics, and above all, have fun, then sets like 138-233-153 would become a thing of the past.

Have to say I kind of agree here. Bowling is complicated enough without adding additional elements to it. I do know some players who can adjust their speed successfuly but they are guys that bowl 40+ games a week and have all of their game down. At least for me I have enough to worry about keeping my timing and release in line.

[vdubtx]

I try to keep it simple. I first use the ball that last gave me success in the house I am bowling in. I usually give it a few warm up shots and then maybe the first few frames to see what it is doing. We only get 10 minutes total for 8-10 people so only get a few shots in on each lane.

If the ball is reacting in warm ups the way I would want and not crossing over from the start, that is what I go with. If the ball is not finishing on my last few shots of warm ups, I will change it up. On Tuesdays we have high friction/low volume so never have to really worry about a ball not reacting.

[Aslan]

I don't think developing a "systems approach" is a bad thing. Bowlers already do it and just don't know it. For spare shooting...don't you have a "system"? 3-6-9? Shadow pins? 2-point/3-point targeting? All systems.

We also always line up with our foot on a certain point on the approach...we vary based on that initial spot. We target spots on the lane...we change that target when it is dictated. Thats a "system". Arsenal bowlers have specific ball progressions (most do anyway). System.

Bowling is all about "systems". The most frustrating bowlers to try and help are bowlers who have a complete LACK of systems:

ME: "Okay, where do you start?"
Bowler: "Around here somewhere"
ME: "But where specifically? Where do you put your left foot? Which board?"
Bowler: "What? I don't have a specific spot I always start at."

And thats when I know...it's going to be very difficult to help this person. If it's a kid...they will tend to do what you say. But an adult? You'll tell them should have a place to start...they'll say "Okay" and then proceed to start at various places on the approach.

Systems take out variability. Thats the upside and an important one in a sport like bowling where it's all about accuracy and repeatability. The downside is it tends to stiffle flexibility.

But...I have reduced the complexity of my "Arsenal system/progression" substantially this past month and so far it's been generally positive. I've tried to reduce "over-thinking" as much as possible...just focus on the basics like balance and accuracy. Not saying I'll never re-visit a more complicated system in the future...but like Rob said...I have other things that need more immediate attention concerning my game and it's best to keep as much as possible as simple as possible until I can get a consistent approach/release/delivery

[RobLV1]

Personally, I think your system approach stems directly from a lack of confidence in your ability to adjust. Take a look at your 138-233-153 series. You were obviously lost the first game, had a good look the second game, and then got lost again. If you had simply made small, routine adjustments when your second game line started to go away, rather than go to your "B" game or your "C" game, or whatever, you could have probably managed to keep your last game in line with your second game. We all have bad games, but once we find something on a particular pair, we should be able to at least keep the next game in the same ballpark. You've made huge strides in your game. Your next step is to learn to trust your own ability.

[Blacksox1]

I start with a Storm Marvel-S. Adjust up or down from there.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I start with a Storm Marvel-S. Adjust up or down from there.

That is one strong ball. You must have a house shot with some volume on it.

[Blacksox1]

That is one strong ball. You must have a house shot with some volume on it.

Yes, currently 42' THS.

[Aslan]

Personally, I think your system approach stems directly from a lack of confidence in your ability to adjust. Take a look at your 138-233-153 series. You were obviously lost the first game, had a good look the second game, and then got lost again. If you had simply made small, routine adjustments when your second game line started to go away, rather than go to your "B" game or your "C" game, or whatever, you could have probably managed to keep your last game in line with your second game. We all have bad games, but once we find something on a particular pair, we should be able to at least keep the next game in the same ballpark. You've made huge strides in your game. Your next step is to learn to trust your own ability.

Well...that is all true actually. But I think the last game the brandy doubles caught up with me. Thats the only thing I can think of because once I adjusted my speed...I was definitely 'on'.

Where I feel like my systems approach is beneficial, hear me out, is that the game tends to award:
1) Accuracy
2) Consistency

Bowlers that can hit the same spot, at the same speed. with the same axis tilt...will almost always strike. Sure, the lanes can change. Sure, a pin can be slightly off spot. But the bottom line is you want to take "variation" out of the equation. A "system" keeps a bowler from doing something due to a "gut feeling". And I'm terrible with that. I can't even count how many shots I've missed NOT because I didn't have the right ball and right line and right speed...but because just when I was going to release the ball...I didn't trust my line. And 90% of the time...I'll miss if I don't trust my line. I'll push it thinking I'm lined up too left...or I'll pull it thinking it won't come back...I'll miss.

So, you're right. The system is because I don't necessarily trust myself enough and my ability enough to just make changes based on gut reactions. But it's also because even for higher average bowlers...gut reactions aren't always a good idea. As I've stated many times...one of my bigger pet peeves...bowlers that make ball changes for no apparent or explainable reason... They 'miss' and suddenly they are grabbing another ball.

We'll see. I'm quickly discovering that the key to high scoring appears to be having miss room. When I can't miss 1 board either way...thats tough. But when I have the right ball on the right line...and I can miss a few boards right and still get a pocket strike....or miss a couple boards left and the oil pattern holds it in line...man...suddenly I go from averaging 150s to 170s to averaging 170s to 190s.

[bobforsaken]

Yes, currently 42' THS.

Dumb question but is pattern length 42' or above considered a medium/heavy condition or would it depend on how many units of oil? My center has a 42' THS as well and all but one of my pieces is designated less than "Medium/Heavy" oil (medium Hyroad Pearl)

[RobLV1]

The length of the pattern and the volume of the pattern are two different things. A 42' pattern may be a medium/heavy condition, or it may be a medium/light condition depending on the volume.

[Blacksox1]

bobforsaken
RobLV1

Let me get back to you with the units and volume. :)

Click on this! http://www.kegel.net/V3/PatternLibraryPattern.aspx?ID=713 :cool:

[epiepenburg]

During warmup/practice I will typically go to my strongest ball, if I don't like the reaction with my typical line, I'll move a bit before deciding to switch balls. Depending on who we bowl against, I may make it through the second game before going to a weaker ball.

[RobLV1]

During warmup/practice I will typically go to my strongest ball, if I don't like the reaction with my typical line, I'll move a bit before deciding to switch balls. Depending on who we bowl against, I may make it through the second game before going to a weaker ball.

Something that I've been advocating for a long time, and that was actually picked up by Randy Pedersen on last week's telecast is that thinking of balls as "weak" or "strong" is really counterproductive. They are actually just more aggressive or less aggressive. If a strong ball burns up at 40' and hits like a toasted marshmallow, is it really stronger than a weak ball that retains it's energy for the pins and shreds the rack? How about rather than weak ball, strong ball, we think of right ball, wrong ball?

[bowl1820]

Dumb question but is pattern length 42' or above considered a medium/heavy condition or would it depend on how many units of oil? My center has a 42' THS as well and all but one of my pieces is designated less than "Medium/Heavy" oil (medium Hyroad Pearl)


As for pattern length in general less than 36 feet is considered a short pattern, 37-42 feet is considered a medium length pattern, more than 43 feet is a long pattern.

In terms of volume there's not really a set scale, because it's not how much, but where it's at on the lane.

You might read this article:
"Lane Pattern Basics: An Overview of Blend, Taper & Application".
Click here for the article (http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=164&Itemid=46)

Quote:

"the overall volume of the shot probably has the least affect, as the length that the conditioner is applied can make the "volume" almost meaningless."

But here's a basic scale: Light to Medium (20ml. or less), Medium to Heavy (More than 20ml. (other references will vary this)

The volume of oil will give you a idea of the strength of ball, what surface you will want to use and about how fast you can expect the oil to break down.

Basically the higher volume of oil the more aggressive ball and/or a rougher surface.

A general guideline from Kegel is:
Less than 18 ml use a weaker cover ball
18 - 21 ml use a weak to medium cover
21 - 25 ml use a medium to strong cover
More than 25 ml use an aggressive coverstock

Patterns with lower volume will break down more quickly, patterns with higher volume tend to break down more slowly. Also the lane type and where the oil is applied will affect how the ball reacts

[epiepenburg]

Something that I've been advocating for a long time, and that was actually picked up by Randy Pedersen on last week's telecast is that thinking of balls as "weak" or "strong" is really counterproductive. They are actually just more aggressive or less aggressive. If a strong ball burns up at 40' and hits like a toasted marshmallow, is it really stronger than a weak ball that retains it's energy for the pins and shreds the rack? How about rather than weak ball, strong ball, we think of right ball, wrong ball?

Stronger vs. weaker in my opinion isn't determined by how it hits, to me I use it to only refer to the cover stocks. I honestly would rather refer to it was aggressive and less aggressive. To me there is no such thing and right vs. wrong ball, if you can play multiple lines/angles as well as adjust speed, how can a ball ever be wrong? I switch balls to play similar lines with each ball rather than having to move too much to accommodate the lane changing.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Stronger vs. weaker in my opinion isn't determined by how it hits, to me I use it to only refer to the cover stocks. I honestly would rather refer to it was aggressive and less aggressive. To me there is no such thing and right vs. wrong ball, if you can play multiple lines/angles as well as adjust speed, how can a ball ever be wrong? I switch balls to play similar lines with each ball rather than having to move too much to accommodate the lane changing.

You just answered your own question. You switch balls to play a similar line rather than moving. The ball you switched off of was no longer the right ball for that line. Sure you can adjust with the same starting ball and try to migrate and it might still be the right ball but maybe not. Right and wrong ball is defined as what gives you the best option to score in relation to the line you are trying to play at a given point of your set. Maybe you shoot 210 with a ball but that does not mean you did not have 220 sitting in your bag. I have said it many times, it is hard to out bowl a bad ball reaction.

[fortheloveofbowling]

As for pattern length in general less than 36 feet is considered a short pattern, 37-42 feet is considered a medium length pattern, more than 43 feet is a long pattern.

In terms of volume there's not really a set scale, because it's not how much, but where it's at on the lane.

You might read this article:
"Lane Pattern Basics: An Overview of Blend, Taper & Application".
Click here for the article (http://bowlingknowledge.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=164&Itemid=46)

Quote:


But here's a basic scale: Light to Medium (20ml. or less), Medium to Heavy (More than 20ml. (other references will vary this)

The volume of oil will give you a idea of the strength of ball, what surface you will want to use and about how fast you can expect the oil to break down.

Basically the higher volume of oil the more aggressive ball and/or a rougher surface.

A general guideline from Kegel is:
Less than 18 ml use a weaker cover ball
18 - 21 ml use a weak to medium cover
21 - 25 ml use a medium to strong cover
More than 25 ml use an aggressive coverstock

Patterns with lower volume will break down more quickly, patterns with higher volume tend to break down more slowly. Also the lane type and where the oil is applied will affect how the ball reacts

And then you have to determine the motion you are trying to create on the lane. That is why you saw guys using STRONGER BALLS on cheetah.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Something that I've been advocating for a long time, and that was actually picked up by Randy Pedersen on last week's telecast is that thinking of balls as "weak" or "strong" is really counterproductive. They are actually just more aggressive or less aggressive. If a strong ball burns up at 40' and hits like a toasted marshmallow, is it really stronger than a weak ball that retains it's energy for the pins and shreds the rack? How about rather than weak ball, strong ball, we think of right ball, wrong ball?

So when someone goes in the pro shop and wants a new ball to to do a specific thing what do they tell the pro shop guy? Assuming they know everything about your game, the pattern, and the line you are targeting i guess you could say give me the right ball. Also, what about the drilling? What you do with bowling balls is decide what initial STRENGTH you want with your ball driller based on discussion about your desired lane play. Then with drilling and surface options try to get the motion you want. If we used the terms right and wrong ball that would mean if i had a good set with a certain ball that would always be the right ball for my house shot? If it was the right ball the week before then could it never be the wrong ball on that shot again? Here is the question. What made it the right ball? Would you say, i don't know i just know it wasn't the wrong one?

[RobLV1]

So when someone goes in the pro shop and wants a new ball to to do a specific thing what do they tell the pro shop guy? Assuming they know everything about your game, the pattern, and the line you are targeting i guess you could say give me the right ball. Also, what about the drilling? What you do with bowling balls is decide what initial STRENGTH you want with your ball driller based on discussion about your desired lane play. Then with drilling and surface options try to get the motion you want. If we used the terms right and wrong ball that would mean if i had a good set with a certain ball that would always be the right ball for my house shot? If it was the right ball the week before then could it never be the wrong ball on that shot again? Here is the question. What made it the right ball? Would you say, i don't know i just know it wasn't the wrong one?

A good set with a certain ball would make it the right ball for that set. The next day, or the next week, or the next center, would not make it the right ball or the wrong ball. Here's the answer to your question: what made it the right ball was it's ability to stay in the pocket and carry the corner pins on the particular pair of lanes, on the particular night, with the particular temperature and humidity. In terms of drillings and surface options, limit the number of drillings that you use to two or three, in other words, let the ball do what it was designed to do, and feel free to adjust the surface of any ball to tweak the ball into being "the right ball" when it's close, but not quite perfect.

Backing up to your first question about who to tell the pro shop guy, if in fact they know everything about your game and the pattern (I'll ignore the part about the line your are targeting because even the thought that it's predetermined by you gives me nightmares), then yes, you could say give me the right ball. All I'm saying regarding the terminology is that it's probably a good idea to refer to balls as more aggressive or less aggressive based on the fact that our society reveres everything strong, and detests everything weak.

[fortheloveofbowling]

A good set with a certain ball would make it the right ball for that set. The next day, or the next week, or the next center, would not make it the right ball or the wrong ball. Here's the answer to your question: what made it the right ball was it's ability to stay in the pocket and carry the corner pins on the particular pair of lanes, on the particular night, with the particular temperature and humidity. In terms of drillings and surface options, limit the number of drillings that you use to two or three, in other words, let the ball do what it was designed to do, and feel free to adjust the surface of any ball to tweak the ball into being "the right ball" when it's close, but not quite perfect.

Backing up to your first question about who to tell the pro shop guy, if in fact they know everything about your game and the pattern (I'll ignore the part about the line your are targeting because even the thought that it's predetermined by you gives me nightmares), then yes, you could say give me the right ball. All I'm saying regarding the terminology is that it's probably a good idea to refer to balls as more aggressive or less aggressive based on the fact that our society reveres everything strong, and detests everything weak.



Actually those questions were meant to be rhetorical and somewhat facetious. If we want to use aggressive and less aggressive instead of strong or weak fine. But when i need to help my teammate with ball reaction i can't just say go with the right ball. And yes, it is necessary sometimes to drill balls for certain lines on a particular pattern. If your not considering what you want a ball to do before you have it punched your not thinking. Listen rob, i think you are very knowledgeable about things but in my opinion you may be out of your element when it comes to ball talk. Now, i'm not saying i know a lot and you are far more intelligent overall about the game. Sometimes you have to just stick with your strengths.

[RobLV1]

Actually those questions were meant to be rhetorical and somewhat facetious. If we want to use aggressive and less aggressive instead of strong or weak fine. But when i need to help my teammate with ball reaction i can't just say go with the right ball. And yes, it is necessary sometimes to drill balls for certain lines on a particular pattern. If your not considering what you want a ball to do before you have it punched your not thinking. Listen rob, i think you are very knowledgeable about things but in my opinion you may be out of your element when it comes to ball talk. Now, i'm not saying i know a lot and you are far more intelligent overall about the game. Sometimes you have to just stick with your strengths.

I am often told that I am out of my element when I talk about bowling balls, usually by ball drillers. I look at bowling balls like I look at most everything: logically. Of course I consider what I want a ball to do, but I do it before I purchase it, not before I have it drilled. While it is not in the PSO's best interest to have bowlers buy balls that will work for them rather than to depend on the driller to try and make the ball into something that it's not, it is in the best interest of the bowler. How many times have you heard bowlers pick out a ball that is much to aggressive for them, and tell the PSO to drill it to go long and snap? Personally, I've lost count. A great majority of the people who post on this forum are not at a level where they would consider drilling a ball for a particular pattern. In most cases, when they talk about drilling a ball to play a particular line, they are talking about being able to play ten board on a house shot. It is not my intention to overly simplify bowling balls for the elite of the game, but to try and develop some simple understanding of balls for the league bowler. My ability as a writer to do that is my strength.

[J Anderson]

Actually those questions were meant to be rhetorical and somewhat facetious. If we want to use aggressive and less aggressive instead of strong or weak fine. But when i need to help my teammate with ball reaction i can't just say go with the right ball. And yes, it is necessary sometimes to drill balls for certain lines on a particular pattern. If your not considering what you want a ball to do before you have it punched your not thinking. Listen rob, i think you are very knowledgeable about things but in my opinion you may be out of your element when it comes to ball talk. Now, i'm not saying i know a lot and you are far more intelligent overall about the game. Sometimes you have to just stick with your strengths.

When I started bowling, the average bowler had one ball. The only choices that affected the performance were; rubber or plastic, fingertip or conventional, and what weight do you want to throw.

Bowling balls are now at least ten times as complex. Counting the pancake core of spare ball as its own category, there are three types of cores. With plastic, urethane, reactive resin, pearl and hybrid, there are five types of coverstocks available. The number of combinations is almost staggering. Yet for some reason we keep using the one dimensional terms strong and weak to describe the balls in our arsenals. Is it any wonder why so many of us can't offer a logical reason why we switched from throwing one ball to using a different ball, other than, " the first one wasn't carrying".

[Aslan]

How many times have you heard bowlers pick out a ball that is much to aggressive for them, and tell the PSO to drill it to go long and snap?

I can't remember hearing someone buy a ball that didn't ask for it to go long and snap. It's more of a "roll your eyes" joke at this point.

Bottom line...the average bowler can't make a ball go long and take a 90 degree turn into the pocket. To do that...requires a polished ball, a pearl, with an aggressive cover stock for the back end...and arguably an assymetric core of whatever strength. BUT...even MORE than that...it requires a bowler with a substantial rev rate.

The Storm Optimus is considered by MANY to be the best skid/flip ball on the market right now...at least the most popular. My teammate just bought one two weeks ago because he wated a ball to be more aggressive on the back end than his Matermind Genius.

Now, here's whats silly about that (from my uneducated point of view):

The guy is throwing a Mastermind Genius and missing right. It's not making the turn. It's a HYBRID cover stock ball. It's an overall more aggressive ball than the Optimus. Arguably...it may be a BETTER skid/flip ball...because it is polished and has an assymetric core and a very aggressive cover stock and a much higher RG (to go longer). It's only downside to being an ideal skid/flip ball is the Hybrid cover...seems like that would bite too early.

BUT...he then gets an Optimus...which is a Pearl...and thats great...but it's a symmetric core with a much lower RG. How is that going to go LONGER...and snap more aggressively/angularly??? It's got a lower RG...so it goes shorter...and is a symmetric core which will cause it to have a more gradual response than an angular response.

It was a BAD ball choice for what he wanted. What he NEEDED was someone to explain that without a 400rpm rev rate...he can't throw the ball 19mph and expect angular reaction. He NEEDS to slow his ball speed down...and that Mastermind Genius will be all the ball he will need.

Last week...he bought an IQ Tour Solid. Again....IF he wants a long ball to snap...HORRIBLE choice. If he's not going to slow down his ball speed...which he refuses to do...then a Solid is definitely the way to go...but he won't see a long/snap. He'll see a ball start to move sooner and make a nice move into the pocket. Hopefully that works. Because when I joined this team...he was our anchor and was averaging high 180s while I was mired in a bit of a slump in the high 140s. I'm now in the low 160s and he's in the high 170s and I'm fairly certain I'll pass him in average by the end of the season if not much sooner. The flooded lanes with massive carry-down up the right side has made his speed dominant shot nearly useless. He can usually break 200 in the last game of the series if the lanes break down enough...but most games I've been outscoring him as of late. And he's bought 3 balls in 6-7 weeks trying to fix the problem. :rolleyes:

[Amyers]

Sounds like bad ball advice to
Me too.

[bobforsaken]

I can't remember hearing someone buy a ball that didn't ask for it to go long and snap.

This tees up a couple of questions that have been bouncing around in my brain.

1) When is a skid flip reaction advantageous over an arcing reacton? I have two balls that are more angular and two that are more arcing. I currently use the arcing balls when I play track area and move to a more angular reaction when I move deeper. (usually around the 3rd arrow as a target)

2) when does increasing or decreasing axis of rotation advantageous. Again when I play track area I tend to stay more behind the ball and try to tame down my axis of rotation. (My tendency is to come around too much and get 60+ Degrees of axis of Rotation). This also seems to promote a more arcing reaction. However when I play deeper I tend to increase that axis of rotation which seems to help create a skid flip reaction.

[Aslan]

This tees up a couple of questions that have been bouncing around in my brain.

1) When is a skid flip reaction advantageous over an arcing reacton?

I'll take a shot...but only because I know when I mess this up...Bowl1820, RobM, AND MWhite will jump in to correct me...

Usually on drier lanes you want the ball to go longer without hooking. The longer it goes without hooking, the more dramatic flare/angle/hook it will need to get into the pocket.


I have two balls that are more angular and two that are more arcing. I currently use the arcing balls when I play track area and move to a more angular reaction when I move deeper. (usually around the 3rd arrow as a target)
That may also be advantageuous if the arcing balls skid through the oil in the center but just can't make a sudden turn.


2) when does increasing or decreasing axis of rotation advantageous.
No idea. Most high rev/big hook guys use axis rotation. From what I've been told...axis tilt is preferable to axis rotation. But in all honesty...I'm not clear as to "why".

I know for me...if I hit UP on the ball...if I loft "incorrectly" the way I used to...my ball gets mostly axis rotation and generally my coach frowns upon this because it makes the ball hook too early. Others have said that in addition to hooking too early...it doesn't have the optimum angle into the pocket...but I don't know as much about that as some others might.


Again when I play track area I tend to stay more behind the ball and try to tame down my axis of rotation. (My tendency is to come around too much and get 60+ Degrees of axis of Rotation). This also seems to promote a more arcing reaction. However when I play deeper I tend to increase that axis of rotation which seems to help create a skid flip reaction.
From what I've heard...and I may stand corrected...the ultimate goal is to not HAVE to change the WAY you throw the ball to get the reaction you want. I have a Columbia Encounter...and if I "try" to rev it up...all axis rotation...slow speed...I can "make" it have a more skid/flip reaction. But it's horribly inconsistent.

GOOD LUCK!

[RobLV1]

Here's my take on this. Let the characteristics of the ball, both core and cover, dictate what it's going to do. Use the layout to either accentuate the reaction, ie., skid/flip reaction for skid/flip ball, or arcing reaction to arcing ball. When bowlers start getting into trouble is when they try to force a ball to do something other than what it was designed for.

[bobforsaken]

Here's my take on this. Let the characteristics of the ball, both core and cover, dictate what it's going to do. Use the layout to either accentuate the reaction, ie., skid/flip reaction for skid/flip ball, or arcing reaction to arcing ball. When bowlers start getting into trouble is when they try to force a ball to do something other than what it was designed for.

I think that answers my second question. Q: "when is changing axis rotation advantageous" A: Don't do it... What about the first? When is it I should choose and arcing reaction vs a skid flip? For me my intuition tells me arcing for track and skid flip for more inside lines. However I don't know if this completely wrong headed.

[RobLV1]

Let the results dictate what ball motion you use. If a skid/flip motion knocks down the pins, then use it. If an arcing motion knocks down the pins, then use it. Bowlers love to try to force the lanes to listen to their preferences; ball motion, path to the pocket, etc. This doesn't work. Again I will say that not listening to the lanes get us just about as far as not listening to our wives! LOL