A lot of what's wrong with bowling, in one little anecdote.

[swingset]

I just moved to a new city, about an hour away from where I used to live...I'm in Central Ohio. Lots of bowling centers around my new place, so I was jazzed to be so close to a new bowling scene. So, looking for something to do in the winter, I tried to find some short-season or winter leagues. I visit the websites of all the places around me. Most aren't up to date, list almost nothing, or only list house-sponsored leagues that don't apply to me (such as junior leagues, house-wife mondays, etc.). Well, that's no good if you want new blood.

So, I visit the centers nearest me and that sound the most promising, both large, popular centers. I inquire at the first about any upcoming leagues that might be something I could get in on. The desk help had no idea, except to point to a bunch of flyers that were house-sponsored leagues, at weird times, etc. They had no schedule or information on private leagues (which is always the good ones).

Awesome. That's the way to bring in new folks, right there. Now, if I was lucky enough to be from the area and know people who bowl on some league that's starting soon, on a day I'm free, I guess what happened isn't really deleterious to my bowling career or the state of the leagues and centers - but I'm a new kid in town.

So, I head over to the other house. Good news, counter guy says they have a league starting in January on Sunday which is what I want. It's a "Zombie" league - apparently the "get" for this league is they put Walking Dead on the jumbo-tron and give away a zombie spare ball to everyone bowling. Ok, whatever, I like the show that's fine...I just want to bowl and meet new people. I sign up, stating I'm just an individual but will bowl on a team if they need to fill one or whatever. They take my info, and I wait.

Finally, after weeks of waiting (on Dec. 23rd, remember this) a lady emails me and says she'll try to find me a team, and she'll be in touch. Last week, someone else calls to remind me that tonight is the starting night, and if the participation is good, I should be able to bowl. Doesn't sound very concrete, but whatever I'll make the 20 minute drive to find out.

So, tonight I show up 15 minutes early to the center. Very crowded, with of course a private league full of people who are having fun bowling. I don't see anyone anywhere standing around, so after 5 minutes or so I ask at the counter where the league is meeting or what's going on.

Ready for it? They don't know. But, they'll find out. After 2 phone calls, they tell me that the league is canceled, they only had 4 people show up to the pre-meeting. "What pre-meeting? I didn't hear anything about that". Girl says the pre-meeting was on Dec. 20th, 3 days before they got around to even contacting me. "I think I see the problem", I told the counter girl.

So, not wanting to just slink away in complete disappointment, I ask about the mixed league currently bowling. Do they need a sub or something? I ask. Counter girl has no clue who is in charge of the league. Awesome. So, I go over and start asking around, finally finding the very pleasant lady in charge (extreme sarcasm). When I introduce myself, and ask about the league, she says "We're 4 weeks into the league, it's closed". Ok, well if anyone needs a sub, can I leave my name and number, I ask. "We have plenty of subs".

Sweet! Nice welcome mat, I feel like royalty.

So, back to canvassing the dozen or so other houses to even see if anyone knows anything, while a secret & underground network of bowling happens. Back when the US was an industrial, blue collar social world getting people to bowl was probably a lot easier - but the sport still behaves as if that world still exists - but there are more people like me than not, folks who are (for whatever reason) on the outside and centers, leagues and tournaments almost seem to go out of their way to avoid fresh meat.

Tourneys are just as bad. I asked about those at the centers too...nobody had any idea. But I'll bet my savings there ARE tournaments scheduled in this area, and people know about them - but not me. Their websites are vacant or neglected, counter help are apathetic drones, organizers assume everyone who wants to bowl already knows about it.

And, I'm sitting at home on a Sunday night with money in my pocket. You do the math.

[larry mc]

that stinks , im happy the centers around me arent like that

[larry mc]

that stinks , im happy the centers around me arent like that

[Aslan]

I posted a similar story many moons ago.

I was thinking of joining a league with some co-workers and out of 4 centers that I called, one responed within 48 hours, another within the week. The other two; one responded later that month and didn't have a league that fit what I needed (4-man or 5-man all male team) and the other one never responded at all.

Wanna guess which two were AMF and which two were private centers? Hint: It's easy.

I then thought of leaving my center because they didn't have good practicing hours and were raising prices…and called the same 3 other centers….the only different result was this time the other private center responded by email that day.

I'm not some libertarian or even a conservative…but my experience has led me to believe that successful private centers do things the right way. Brunswick/AMF….there's a reason why they have been through bankruptcys and eventually got bought by Bowlmor.

[swingset]

I'm not some libertarian or even a conservative…but my experience has led me to believe that successful private centers do things the right way. Brunswick/AMF….there's a reason why they have been through bankruptcys and eventually got bought by Bowlmor.

Man, talk about a weirdly timed post - and don't get me wrong here, 10 minutes ago I would have agreed with you 100% because AMF killed my favorite house where I used to live and ran it like morons and my favorite center ever is this great 8 laner that I still drive an hour to bowl at....but tonight out of desperation I called the AMF in my new place, and the league officer called me back right away and was super nice and has a league and a spot for me in a few weeks - short league, with a free T-zone at the end of it for $10 a week!

Man, I think I just moved into bizarro world. The bad experiences were private houses, the friggin AMF is on the ball and wants customers.

Did I just take some lithium or something?

[mc_runner]

Well, at least you have a happy ending! Some houses are run better than others regardless of the owner badge on it... really comes down to management. Did the houses that were clueless seem to be kept up OK or were looking a little run down? I've been fortunate with my main center, but have certainly heard of others who haven't had the same experiences around here.

[swingset]

Well, at least you have a happy ending! Some houses are run better than others regardless of the owner badge on it... really comes down to management. Did the houses that were clueless seem to be kept up OK or were looking a little run down? I've been fortunate with my main center, but have certainly heard of others who haven't had the same experiences around here.

Both the houses that were flaky are really nice - in fact the one with the Zombie league is pretty famous (hosted a PBA tourney recently). The other is pretty nice, has a good reputation at least if you trust review sites.

I dunno, still getting the feel for the atmosphere here, it seems like the bowling community is more underground than it was where I used to live...maybe they're still spoiled by having more dedicated league bowlers and don't need to reach out or have a good online presence or whatever.

[Hampe]

Wow that sucks man. Around here if you just showed up a few times to either center in a month you would have people asking if you were interested in joining a league.

[Amyers]

I guess things are just different here. The centers run most of the leagues so you don't have the third party person that you have to get a hold of. The leagues do have league presidents and things like that but they don't have any real power here I couldn't even tell you who they are on any of the leagues I bowl on.

The up to date info on the web and facebook is something all of the centers need to manage better though. unfortunately most of the people who run these things are old guard types who didn't grow up with this stuff so it doesn't occur to them how necessary this kind of thing is in the modern world.

[Perrin]

Wow that sucks man. Around here if you just showed up a few times to either center in a month you would have people asking if you were interested in joining a league.

Pretty much the same around here. Come out to practice a couple times. maybe talk to the counter people or the pro-shop and even metion that your interested and they will give you several leagues to talk to :)
The Center I usually bowl at actually has a house sub list you can sign up for and they make that available to every league.

[white_rabbitt]

Glad you found something! I was just wondering how difficult it would be to find a spot in a league near me.

[Aslan]

the league officer called me back right away and was super nice and has a league and a spot for me in a few weeks - short league, with a free T-zone at the end of it for $10 a week!

That doesn't sound right. I've only seen ONE league that was $10 and that was an unsanctioned farse of a league that only lasted like 10 weeks. AND they give you a ball??

I mean, it's probably not a sweeper and the ball kinda blows....but still.

[swingset]

That doesn't sound right. I've only seen ONE league that was $10 and that was an unsanctioned farse of a league that only lasted like 10 weeks. AND they give you a ball??

I mean, it's probably not a sweeper and the ball kinda blows....but still.

Yeah, you have it right - it's a 10x10 league ($10/week for 10 weeks), and it's unsanctioned. Don't mind that at all, personally, I've got my ring and plenty of magnets...but for the ball and some bowling alone it's worth it. They've got 64 people signed up so far, so it sounds like it's going to have a decent turn out.

It's not ideal, I'm sure, probably just a goofball league but it's the night I have free and it beats sitting at home. At least they seem to want the business.

[Amyers]

My guess would be pricing is probably somewhat different between central Ohio and Southern California. Most of my leagues are between 10-13 a week and are sanctioned.

[axslinger]

That doesn't sound right. I've only seen ONE league that was $10 and that was an unsanctioned farse of a league that only lasted like 10 weeks. AND they give you a ball??

I mean, it's probably not a sweeper and the ball kinda blows....but still.

I just finished an 8-week league, $8 a week and a free T-Zone. Again, AMF. They do all these 8, 9 and 10 week leagues. Not sure why.

[Aslan]

I just finished an 8-week league, $8 a week and a free T-Zone. Again, AMF. They do all these 8, 9 and 10 week leagues. Not sure why.

Because AMF is a failure and Bowlmor has convinced the industry that league bowlers are an annoyance. So AMF lost their league bowlers and in a idiotic attempt to get them back have focused on "shorter" leagues that are less involved. Granted, that usually results in a non-sanctioned league full of sandbaggers and idiots who may or may not actually bowl more than a couple of the 10 weeks...which leads to a negative experience for many of the league members....but AMF and Bowlmor have never been accused of thinking in the long term.

I think the 10-week league, non-sanctioned league I was in when I first started...they didn't give everyone a useless TZone...they catered a dinner during the last week...something like that. I can't remember how many teams were in the league...not many. 1-2 of them stopped coming after a couple weeks. The team that won just threw their ball opposite handed into the gutter in week 1 to establish low averages and then bowled to their potential/skill level as the season progressed. But..non-sanctioned = less "picky" about little things like "rules" and fair play.

[Mike White]

Yeah, you have it right - it's a 10x10 league ($10/week for 10 weeks), and it's unsanctioned. Don't mind that at all, personally, I've got my ring and plenty of magnets...but for the ball and some bowling alone it's worth it. They've got 64 people signed up so far, so it sounds like it's going to have a decent turn out.

It's not ideal, I'm sure, probably just a goofball league but it's the night I have free and it beats sitting at home. At least they seem to want the business.

I would like to see the USBC get the stick out of their ***** and allow individuals to be sanctioned even if the league as a whole isn't.

That way their scores would count for averages/awards as long as the rules of the league are consistent with sanctioned leagues.

[Mike White]

Because AMF is a failure and Bowlmor has convinced the industry that league bowlers are an annoyance. So AMF lost their league bowlers and in a idiotic attempt to get them back have focused on "shorter" leagues that are less involved. Granted, that usually results in a non-sanctioned league full of sandbaggers and idiots who may or may not actually bowl more than a couple of the 10 weeks...which leads to a negative experience for many of the league members....but AMF and Bowlmor have never been accused of thinking in the long term.

I think the 10-week league, non-sanctioned league I was in when I first started...they didn't give everyone a useless TZone...they catered a dinner during the last week...something like that. I can't remember how many teams were in the league...not many. 1-2 of them stopped coming after a couple weeks. The team that won just threw their ball opposite handed into the gutter in week 1 to establish low averages and then bowled to their potential/skill level as the season progressed. But..non-sanctioned = less "picky" about little things like "rules" and fair play.

Brunswick chain of centers had been doing 8 for 8, with a T-Zone long before AMF and Bowlmor came into the picture.

When you consider the cost of manufacturing the T-Zone, and it was made by a sibling to the Bowling Center, they can easily afford to give away the ball.

[Aslan]

I would like to see the USBC get the stick out of their ***** and allow individuals to be sanctioned even if the league as a whole isn't.

That way their scores would count for averages/awards as long as the rules of the league are consistent with sanctioned leagues.

Or just make every league at a sanctioned center conform to USBC rules rather than let centers have imaginary, silly leagues that don't count for anything. Either way.

[swingset]

Brunswick chain of centers had been doing 8 for 8, with a T-Zone long before AMF and Bowlmor came into the picture.

When you consider the cost of manufacturing the T-Zone, and it was made by a sibling to the Bowling Center, they can easily afford to give away the ball.

I ain't bitching about the free T-zone. I use one now for spares, it's a welcome back-up. He said they have a Slingshot league that's $11, on Saturdays.

Honestly, I think that's a great deal for a league.

[J Anderson]

I just finished an 8-week league, $8 a week and a free T-Zone. Again, AMF. They do all these 8, 9 and 10 week leagues. Not sure why.

They may actually get the fact that the average person has less free time, and more activities competing for it, than in the hayday of league bowling. Few people under a certain age are willing to commit to that requires them to show up every week for 30 to 36 weeks.

[kbucks]

I think another thing that is wrong is some of the attitude in the pro-shops that I've run into. I'm trying to get back into bowling after about 10 years. I was only a recreational bowler, but used to go around 3 times a week, usually 1 day of practice, 1 night with friends and beers, and 1 night with my best friend where we would just try to beat each other. I had a hand-me-down ball that someone left at the alley and "kind of" fit and I learned to throw a hook with it.

I stopped into a few shops (if they were slow) to ask questions about balls and how to go about picking a ball and getting it drilled and all that and was frequently met with a pretty dismissive attitude from the staff. I found one where the guy seemed super excited to help out. I called him a couple weeks ago and said that I was ready to get a couple balls, some shoes and all the stuff AND my fiancee wants to get into it too. We set up an appointment for when he would have the time to go over everything with us. AWESOME!!!

It snows bad the morning we're supposed to go so I rent a car share for us to get there. (I have a Miata on summer tires in Denver... oops.) We walk in, ask for the guy, and the person working says, "Oh he isn't here today." I tell him we had an appointment. He says, "I don't know why he would make an appointment for today, he never works Monday." Ok. So, I'm getting annoyed. I say that we rented a car just to come in and he says, "I don't know what to tell you." So, my fiancee asks if he can help us. "Uhhhh, I guess I can try." Really? So, we split.

I cool off, wait a couple days, and call the shop, maybe it was just a misunderstanding. "He's busy can you call back?" OK. I do this for a couple days and finally leave my number. They never call back.

I emailed a couple other places around Denver and the only one that got back to us was John at Bowler's Garage. We went in last night and John spent a ton of time going over and explaining everything with us. He had us roll some balls even though we only had house balls to work with. We wound up ordering 3 balls, 2 pairs of shoes, bags and the whole works. He was really awesome to deal with.

Guess who finally called me back today... the guy from the first shop.

[kbucks]

Ok, called him back. He was very apologetic about missing the appointment. I talked to him for a bit and said that misunderstandings happen... not a big deal, but the guy who kind of blew us off was pretty disappointing. He said he was sorry for losing our business and offered a free lesson to make up for it. Which is pretty nice, I think.

[Aslan]

They may actually get the fact that the average person has less free time, and more activities competing for it, than in the hayday of league bowling. Few people under a certain age are willing to commit to that requires them to show up every week for 30 to 36 weeks.

I get that. I have a female friend that said she likes to bowl and I asked her to join a league with me and she declined because 32-39 weeks was "too much of a commitment". And it IS a common sentiment.

My issue with that is....if you're not willing to commit to a league for more than 10 weeks...you're probably not really willing to commit to a lot of other things that go into a positive bowling experience like:

- good equipment/fit
- following league/house rules
- supporting the sport/USBC
- improving yourself and your skills

So thats what I found when I joined a 10/11-week non-sanctioned league. Forlks came, they stayed, some left, some cheated, most didn't care, it was just more of a social gathering than actual sport bowling. And if people WANT that....there is open bowling every single day at every single center...no need to have an official league. IMO.

[Amyers]

I get that. I have a female friend that said she likes to bowl and I asked her to join a league with me and she declined because 32-39 weeks was "too much of a commitment". And it IS a common sentiment.

My issue with that is....if you're not willing to commit to a league for more than 10 weeks...you're probably not really willing to commit to a lot of other things that go into a positive bowling experience like:

- good equipment/fit
- following league/house rules
- supporting the sport/USBC
- improving yourself and your skills

So thats what I found when I joined a 10/11-week non-sanctioned league. Forlks came, they stayed, some left, some cheated, most didn't care, it was just more of a social gathering than actual sport bowling. And if people WANT that....there is open bowling every single day at every single center...no need to have an official league. IMO.

I don't know how much of a commitment really is it to sign up for 32-36 weeks 2-3 hours per week? Now I understand a lot of us don't have predictable 9-5 M-F jobs anymore but for most they don't have at least one set day off or one day they can't separate out that they don't work evening hours at. The real reason is people build their lives full of useless crap to the point they are always running around doing something and can't figure out why they don't have any time.

[Aslan]

Agreed Amyers.

If you want to see more people commit to bowling in 36-week sweeper leagues...it's REAL SIMPLE. Offer a free daycare onsite at the center for anyone bowling in a league. The center's leagues will fill up SO fast there will be a waiting list. Guaranteed.

If you're a couple, with a young child...and you want to bowl in a league....how else do you do it? Bring the kid along and then the kid is running around the place like a madman? It's more aggravation than it's worth. What? You're gonna hire a babysitter and pay $50 on top of the $54 to bowl each night? Suddenly it's not that inexpensive an endeaver.

There are LOTS of couples with kids that would LOVE to bowl in a league...and length doesn't matter...they just need someone to watch their kid(s) for free so they can take 3-4 hours and enjoy themselves.

Thats why, the "Aslan Bowl-A-Drome Center" would have:

- Daycare provided for $1 per child per night by a liscensed daycare person onsite.
- Free rides home from the center to your house if you've had too much to drink. Free overnight parking for the car you leave there.
- 9 free practice games per bowler per league they are participating in each week (non-transferable)
- $500 donation to the PTA of each elementary school that fields a youth league team (paid at the conclusion of the season if 90% or greater attendence). Free bowling shoe rental and bowling during youth league as well as the 9 free practice games above for youth bowlers. Prizes provided to all youth teams that participate including ball, bag, t-shirt, new shoes, and a trophy to the 1st place team, ball, bag, shoes, and shirt to the 2nd place team, shoes and shirt to the 3rd place team, t-shirt to everyone else.

Those 4 things....off the top of my head...and you'll have a full house of league bowlers M-Th and a healthy youth movement. Cost? Relatively insignifcant considering the revenue generated by filling the center every M-Th and the concessions/bar tabs that go along with it.

See...THAT is how I'd compete with other sources of entertainment. Centers don't need to make a mockery of the game with non-sanctioned silly leagues and no-tap nonsense. They just need to be BETTER than the other sources of entertainment. It's really not that difficult a concept.

[Mike White]

I get that. I have a female friend that said she likes to bowl and I asked her to join a league with me and she declined because 32-39 weeks was "too much of a commitment". And it IS a common sentiment.



You lost me at "I have a female friend"

[jab5325]

First time poster here. I'm so glad I found this forum, and specifically this thread.

Both of my local centers are independent--in fact, I've never been to an AMF or Bowlmor house. I live in central Pennsylvania, and after taking a 7-8 year break from the game, decided to get back into it this season. We have a personal email announcement list at work, and one of my female colleagues sent out a request for a female bowler in a ladies league. I'm not a lady, but I responded that if she hears of any need for a sub/bowler in the men's league, I'd do it.

That same night, the owner of the house called me and took my information. He worked to form a team for me, and now I bowl on Thursdays. I'm having a great time, although I'm still getting back into "bowling shape" and my average is much lower than where I want it to be. The guys on my team are great, as are the rest of the bowlers.

It saddens me to see league bowling die off. It's so hard to find people committed to bowl every week for any real length of time, and most houses don't make it easy. Even at local independent houses, the staff often don't even want to strike up a conversation with folks there on a random weekend afternoon. In fact, to get back into the game, I went to the same place I now bowl at (with the nice owner) on weekend afternoons. It was generally the same two people there. I threw pretty decently (170s/180s) and tried to strike up conversations with each person.....and not once did anyone mention a league, or engage in much conversation.

Had it not been for the email at work, I don't think I would have been able to join.