Going back to one handed after 7 years of two handed, help needed?

[Hobbit]

Hi guys,

Just briefly, I began bowling one handed hook, after 6 yrs got to 160's and was stuck there, could see little improvement, anyway my mate threw it thumbless, so I tried, then went onto 2 handed , over the next 7 years ave jumped to over 200.. Thing is, I have peaked, I can't really get any further than say around 205-210 ave.. The mistakes that I make several yrs ago when throwing it two handed, are the same mistakes I am currently still making, even though I have worked at these.. Arrghhhhh!! frustration overload at times :)

Since beginning to read/comment on this forum, my level of interest in bowling has risen.. Feeling very positive about self improvement, and happy to take it right back to basics.. I thought about going back to the more traditional way, and in particular something easier on body (esp after seeing a 73yr old stroker ave 225+ last week, no stress on his body, very smoothe)..I thought that's exactly the shot that I want!!

The thing is I have lost nearly all my wrist strength throwing it 2 handed, and last night, just picked up a house 11lb and began using it, ball was travelling only 13-14 mph, very slow, with minimal revs..It was all I could use that fitted my hand.. Does anybody have any suggestions on getting bowling strength back for my wrist? And also using a 11lb ball for a few weeks to build up strength?!?! Any ideas on how to progress with one handed hook bowling appreciated, as always.
Cheers

[Blacksox1]

Might want to see a doctor about the wrist strength first.
Good Luck:)

[Hobbit]

Well after 13 games yesterday, hand was sore, even using 11 lb, however today feeling better, still little stiff, looking for specific bowling related ideas on improving strength from anyone? Thinking to stay with 11lb even though it's a plastic dead house ball

Blacksox if pain was persisting I would seek medical attention for sure, but as long as I take my time and not overdo should be ok.

[Shaneshu87]

practice, practice, practice that is about all i can say. you don't have to have 400 revs to average 200+ you don't have to have a ball that hooks from gutter to gutter, you only need 6 degrees of entry angle. your wrist will come back just give it practice, for now i would suggest some sort of wrist support and i don't mean a robby's, my local walmart sells weight lifter wrist supports that just loop around the thumb then wrap around your wrist. i personally used these when i first started bowling again after my hiatus from the sport. it is the perfect support it doesn't "make" your wrist do anything all it does is support your natural motion. get your basic 4-5 step approach down, because timing is everything. that being said good luck sir

[Aslan]

I don't know why you'd go 1-handed...it's a well known fact that roughly 95% of bowlers will bowl 2-handed by 2025. :rolleyes:

[Mike White]

I don't know why you'd go 1-handed...it's a well known fact that roughly 95% of bowlers will bowl 2-handed by 2025. :rolleyes:

Well known only to those who sniff stinky places.

[Mike White]

Hi guys,

Just briefly, I began bowling one handed hook, after 6 yrs got to 160's and was stuck there, could see little improvement, anyway my mate threw it thumbless, so I tried, then went onto 2 handed , over the next 7 years ave jumped to over 200.. Thing is, I have peaked, I can't really get any further than say around 205-210 ave.. The mistakes that I make several yrs ago when throwing it two handed, are the same mistakes I am currently still making, even though I have worked at these.. Arrghhhhh!! frustration overload at times :)

Since beginning to read/comment on this forum, my level of interest in bowling has risen.. Feeling very positive about self improvement, and happy to take it right back to basics.. I thought about going back to the more traditional way, and in particular something easier on body (esp after seeing a 73yr old stroker ave 225+ last week, no stress on his body, very smoothe)..I thought that's exactly the shot that I want!!

The thing is I have lost nearly all my wrist strength throwing it 2 handed, and last night, just picked up a house 11lb and began using it, ball was travelling only 13-14 mph, very slow, with minimal revs..It was all I could use that fitted my hand.. Does anybody have any suggestions on getting bowling strength back for my wrist? And also using a 11lb ball for a few weeks to build up strength?!?! Any ideas on how to progress with one handed hook bowling appreciated, as always.
Cheers

I think rather than having lost wrist strength, you've probably lost the timing of the release.

When you use no thumb, your window as to when to apply fingers is really large.

With the thumb in the ball, the window is actually quite small. If you apply fingers before the thumb is coming out, you hang up in the ball.

If you wait until the thumb is completely out of the ball, it's too late to effectively rev the ball.

There is nothing wrong with throwing 2 handed, and that probably isn't the reason to peaked at 205-210.

More likely the problem is you haven't learned the fundamentals of spare shooting.

You should work hard on being able to adjust your axis of rotation.

When trying to throw at most spares, you want a very low axis of rotation.

Considering you'll need to adjust the AoR even on your strike ball for different conditions, the hard work on spares, will also help you play multiple lane conditions.

[Hobbit]

Firstly thank u to all who have responded.. Some great feedback/info I am getting..

Mike, yeah it makes sense re losing timing of release. That window of release time is 100% correct, I'm sure I'm letting it hang in there too long..

My spares, are consistant except for my corner 7 pin (I'm leftie).. Throwing it 2 hands, it misses by a bit after flattening it out, then I try a end over end roll, same result.. I make about 60% of these spares, and I'm left with them the most.. However since throwing it one handed, easy, easy speed, hard and straight, and already shooting around that percentage, so there s light at end of tunnel for my spare game.. My accuaracy with strike balls can be a bit up and down, I can strike 5-6 per game, then within same game leave 2 nasty splits just as easy.. I was hoping that I can develop real accuracy going back to traditional bowling.

Aslan, u mentioned 2025 90% of bowlers two handed???? Love to know your source here ?Anyway, I would love to see Belmo when hes 73 yr of age bowling as he is currently doing. Hope he keeps smashing them down then, but cannot quite see it happening.. My wake up call as it were,as I mentioned earlier last week ,was seeing an International seniors bowler from Japan, on holidays just bowling a few games, he did it so easily.. Basically a traditional strokers shot, and ave over 225.. I'd take that style and ave anyday of the week..He must be doing a lot of things right, and it is considerably less impact on body that 2 handed.

Shaneshu87, I actually still have an old Mongoose wrist support that gathers dust in the bottom of my bag, may look at getting that out, but want to improve without it if possible.

[Aslan]

Aslan, u mentioned 2025 90% of bowlers two handed???? Love to know your source here ?

ROB M.

Thats all you need to know...

[Hobbit]

I must apologise for my ignorance, I'm sure Rob M means something to most people mate..

Either way, u may be partially right here Aslan, there are many more 2 handers out there, trouble is, most of them are the quintessential spray and prey variety!! I've seen in 7 -8 yrs of 2 handed bowling only a handful of excellent bowlers, who are either pro, or that next level down.. There are very, very few of them in reality...like hens teeth!!!!

Most are inconsistent, miss spares, leave splits, yet ave 200 or a tic more.. I fall into that group!

Bowled tonight, new me, one handed hook, 10 games, only ave 158 one handed with a house 12 lb ball (went from 11 to 12lb to see how I could handle extra weight), already my nemesis 7 pin, is improving! My speed is slow as an 80yr old grandma at present, and very low revs, still I can see the potential over time.. Bowled a 193 game tonight, that's a PB, feeling very positive! Have bowled around 30 games over last week one handed and ave just over 150 now, fingers crossed I can develop more speed and revs along the way..

I doubt whether I could have bowled 13 games a few days ago, to another 10 or so tonight as a 2 handed!! Just saying :)

[bobforsaken]

Nice improvement. In some ways the most frustrating thing is being "stuck" at a level where you don't see improvement. Enjoy the journey and the improvement you slowly get over time going back one handed. Its fun again, isn't it.. :)

[vdubtx]

Seems pretty extreme to completely change bowling style if you have hit a plateau in your game. Experienced coaching can help determine what it is that is keeping you there and move you to the next level.

As Mike White hit on, spares seem to be a sore part in the game that many people over look. As the saying goes, Strikes can win games, but Spares can win Championships.

When I hit my plateau a 18 months ago I got some coaching and have benefited from that and also reading and implementing as much as I could into my game.

Important thing is, is to keep working at it. Don't give up and don't overlook the benefit of getting some good coaching.

[Hobbit]

Hey Bob, cheers mate, yeah slow and steady and most definitely enjoy the journey of improvement.

Hey Vdubtx, u are right there, it is extreme, but am looking at this long term though, both the scores and the physical requirements needed.
I thought the same re look at coaching, but there is absolutely no coaching anywhere for me within 45 minutes plus of where I am, and then u add the two handed thing in the mix, and then u are looking at travelling god knows where.. I think coaching is invaluable, but I have been taking little vids of myself, and over the years have gotten quite good and identifying errors/inconsistencies within my game.. The fact that I simply cannot seem to fix these and most of that's down to physical flaws..

[Aslan]

I must apologise for my ignorance, I'm sure Rob M means something to most people mate..
blashphemy...I mean, yes, his stock probably took a hit when it was found out he provided a couple lessons to yours truly....but still. I mean, if there was a "Who's who in Bowling" book published...I gotta think Rob M. is at worst somewhere in the top 300.


Either way, u may be partially right here Aslan, there are many more 2 handers out there, trouble is, most of them are the quintessential spray and prey variety!! I've seen in 7 -8 yrs of 2 handed bowling only a handful of excellent bowlers, who are either pro, or that next level down.. There are very, very few of them in reality...like hens teeth!!!!

Most are inconsistent, miss spares, leave splits, yet ave 200 or a tic more.. I fall into that group!
Just to be clear...I personally think that it'll increase from a fad to maybe 12-14% of bowlers over the next 15 years. It IS more accepted, it IS showing up more often, and it IS easier for young kids to handle heavy bowling balls. As much as I don't like it, I can't honestly say it shouldn't be illegal. That being said, as you mentioned, there are some SERIOUS problems with that style and it is NOT a given that adopting it will make you a good bowler. I'd even venture to say that the 2-handed style is a BAD idea for a new bowler for two main reasons:

1) It is NOT easy. There's a reason only a couple PBA superstars use that style. Belmo makes it look easy...but he's been doing it since he was a toddler. It is very, very difficult to have a complete game (SPARES) and a consistent game when you have that much revs, that much angle, etc... Most 2-handers end up having Hobbit's experience...they try it, they strike more, they love it, they hit a plateau, they stop.

2) It is a style that decreases longevity. I've argued with people that Belmo will never win enough titles to surpass people like WRW, Earl Anthony, Norm Duke, or PDW and the primary reason is...his back won't last that long. It's been rumored that Osku and Belmo, who are both relatively young, have already had serious back issues. We saw the same kinda thing happen to Mark Roth. Roth sort of invented that "tear the cover off the ball" release...and when he burst on the scene there was talk that he'd me the best bowler in history. Even Earl Anthony agreed and said he was the most feared guy on the tour back then. But....Roth had serious thumb and elbow issues as a result of that release....that added to more issues bowlers routinely have (knees, etc...) and then additional health failings. Much like Bo Jackson...had Roth stayed healthy....the history books may look a lot different.

Granted...the new bowlig ball technology would have hurt Roth more than probably any other player from that era...so even if he did stay healthy it's hard to say if he'd be the title leader or not.

[Hobbit]

Hey Aslan, u are right there's a ton more thumbless and two handers out there, but in all honesty, most of them are spray and prayers!! Their spare games are pretty ordinary... Interesting to have a crystal ball here, and look ahead 10-15 yrs ahead into the popularity of the 2 handed technique. Time will tell.. That being said, the 2 handed technique sure is fun though:):):)

I also heard whispers a year or two ago that Belmo's back is stuffed, and hes at the physio 2-3 a week?!?!

I tried it for 6-7 yrs, and did pretty well, in terms of improving average taking it from 160-(206-210), but in truth, I had some glaring weakness that the 2 handed technique brought along.. On a health perspective, I'm slim, fit , however 44yr male, I can't imagine doing what I am doing to my body for another 10yrs, let alone 30yrs, so the choice was almost made for me here.. Go back to basics, and learn "the traditional way"..and enjoy improving and bowling well into my 70's, and hopefully beyond !!

[Mike White]

Hey Aslan, u are right there's a ton more thumbless and two handers out there, but in all honesty, most of them are spray and prayers!! Their spare games are pretty ordinary... Interesting to have a crystal ball here, and look ahead 10-15 yrs ahead into the popularity of the 2 handed technique. Time will tell.. That being said, the 2 handed technique sure is fun though:):):)

I also heard whispers a year or two ago that Belmo's back is stuffed, and hes at the physio 2-3 a week?!?!

I tried it for 6-7 yrs, and did pretty well, in terms of improving average taking it from 160-(206-210), but in truth, I had some glaring weakness that the 2 handed technique brought along.. On a health perspective, I'm slim, fit , however 44yr male, I can't imagine doing what I am doing to my body for another 10yrs, let alone 30yrs, so the choice was almost made for me here.. Go back to basics, and learn "the traditional way"..and enjoy improving and bowling well into my 70's, and hopefully beyond !!

According to his comment in April of 2014, he hasn't had back problems.

10-things-i-hear-as-a-2-handed-bowler (http://www.jasonbelmonte.com/media-and-press/blog/10-things-i-hear-as-a-2-handed-bowler)

[epiepenburg]

If spares are the weak part of the game when throwing two handed, why not do what Osku does and still throw one handed at those?

[Hobbit]

Good point Epiepenburg, but throwing it for just spares, doesn't eliminate for the other half of my game, where I have to deal with the physical requirements/strain that my body goes through throwing it 2 handed..It's not a long term technique that bodes well with me.. If I get through 6 games 2 handed I'm quite physically tired, last week, bowled one handed and comfortably bowled 13 games (fantastic!!!), it's really a no brainer here, and my 7 pin percentage on a plus is now as good as it was throwing it 2 handed..

My average began 140, it's now 157, so it's all moving forwards..All within two week, of throwing total of 24 games. Early days, but quite encouraging, for me at least...

[Aslan]

According to his comment in April of 2014, he hasn't had back problems.

10-things-i-hear-as-a-2-handed-bowler (http://www.jasonbelmonte.com/media-and-press/blog/10-things-i-hear-as-a-2-handed-bowler)

Best explanation…he lied. His success/career more than anyone is built on the 2-handed style taking off around the world. It's helped him to be the #1 name in bolwing along with his high level of performance. The last thing he would want would be for people to hear it leads to premature back issues.

[dnhoffman]

I'm guessing there aren't a lot of two-handed bowling coaches you can work with either? Eh... Tough spot, good luck to you.

[Hobbit]

Absolutely no other 2 handed coaches around, quite a few players around, but knowone who could really help my game where it was at!

Some positives though, are that my one handed game is slowly improving, and I have more confidence in shooting corner pins hard and fast. Already on both sides, I have greater consistency than throwing it 2 handed.. Average began around 130-140 range, to over 160 now.. Still throw it painfully slow, and only manage a few revs, still need to develop more strength in wrist, as still using 12lb house full fingered bowling ball, it's all I can manage.. Early days.

Yeah Aslen, I heard that he already has significant back issues, and then other people say he is fine!! Mmmm who to believe hey.
I think his new found fame, at least within bowling circles, is because he is that good week in week out! His style gives him big speed and crazy revs, but u have to be able to control it! That takes incredible skill, not just luck (although he does get more than his fair share at times with light hits :)). Does Brian Valenta get this sort of attention, nup! Why, he doesn't win titles, nor get on TV finals, Belmo does, and wins them too.
I know many people have the view of 2 handed bowling, as something akin to cheating, but it does take every bit the same amount of skill a 1 handed needs.. Trouble is so many bowlers who use 2 handed have seen their league scores increase (sometimes dramatically), however, they reach their plateau at some point (I did!!), and struggle to go further.. Look around your leagues, and think about your 2 handers u see. I digress :)

Love to see Belmo when he's 73yr, like the Japanese Masters bowler I saw two weeks..So smoothe and easy on the body. Then again I'm sure Belmo has probably made contingency plans should he ever be unable to bowl 2 handed in the future!