"Good Spare Shooter" = winning?

[Monte]

I've often heard that to be successful in bowling, one must be a good spare shooter. And that being a good spare shooter will lead to winning.

But consider...

if you have a clean sheet (say, 9/, or nine, spare conversion) in EVERY frame except your fill ball (9, let's say) that leaves you with a 190. That's a pretty good average, right? but replace a couple of those spares with strikes (say, the 2nd and 3rd frame you double), and guess what...that 190 becomes a 202.

I'm guessing that phrase means that you should make good spare shooting part of your overall game. Because obviously strikes are more important than spares. And I think it's easier to recover from an early open frame with a couple of strikes than it is with spares.

[Amyers]

On THS strikes are at a premium if you can throw 4 or 5 in a row on a regular basis you can get by with the occasional missed spare. On sport tournament conditions spare shooting becomes more critical. If you are bowling on conditions that reduce your strike rate to 30-40% you better be able to convert spares.

[bowl1820]

The thing is "Opens" don't win games. Lot's of games are lost by less than 10 pins, that's a missed spare.

And if your not striking, spares can keep you in the game.

Yes, a all 9 spare game is a 190 and a adding double in there gives you 202 a 12 pin increase.

But take that all 9 spare game and put back to back open in there and you got a 170 game a 20 pin drop.

or take that 202 and add 2 opens along with those strikes, now you got a 180 or 181 depending on where they are. So two opens cost you 20- 21 pins!

Yes striking is important, but those spares are just as important and in a lot of situations maybe more important.

[NewToBowling]

Spares are important because we can't all rely on getting 12 strikes every game. You may have some games with 0 or 3 or 4 strikes. It's what you do with the other frames that matter. Many people go for strikes and when they don't get it just throw the second ball as an afterthought and wait for a full rack again to try for the strike.

[epiepenburg]

It's what you do with the other frames that matter.

I agree. Don't let a single open frame bother you. Open frames also have certain times when they are less impactful.

Look at yesterday's PBA tournament for example. Ronnie Russell missed a 10 pin spare conversion, but managed to still win his match. Parker Bohn threw a 7-10 split the first frame, leading to an open. He was able to compose himself and win the match.

Now if you have a few opens, especially if they come back to back, your average will show.

[Jaescrub]

Very true. We won our last game sunday night by only 3 pins. I missed a ton of spares my first game and only shot a 124. Made a ball and line change for the second game and shot most of the game with /x/x/x had a few missed shots and shot a 181 we'll above my 136 avg. third game ball and line change and shot about the same kind game but hit more of my spares shot 195 that's the game we only won by three pins spears win games!!!

[J Anderson]

spears win games!!!

Yes, whenever someone points a spear at me I almost always say" okay, you win"!

[Mike White]

Very true. We won our last game sunday night by only 3 pins. I missed a ton of spares my first game and only shot a 124. Made a ball and line change for the second game and shot most of the game with /x/x/x had a few missed shots and shot a 181 we'll above my 136 avg. third game ball and line change and shot about the same kind game but hit more of my spares shot 195 that's the game we only won by three pins spears win games!!!

Is this a "Game Of Thrones" league?

"spears win games!!!"

[Jaescrub]

Dang you autocorrect! :/ but yes that is one way to win your league. :/

[Gone59]

Must be a "Bush" League.

[Aslan]

Chris Barnes once said (and I'm paraphrasing):

Spares won't win you tournaments; but not making spares will lose you tournaments.

And thats 110% true.

These days…if you don't run strikes together you simply can't win. The equipment is too strong, the lane conditions too easy, and the rev rates too high. On the flip side…the biggest difference I see between LEGITIMATE contenders and the multitude of wannabes? Single-pin spare shooting. I've seen SO many guys that can strike like Belmo (not quite)…but they pick up 40% of their single-pin spares.

[Monte]

Aslan:

I get what you're saying. I think I'm a fairly good single-pin spare converter. Maybe I should start tracking my percentage. I'd guess it's in the 75-85% range. That's just a guess.

For some reason, I've started having trouble with corner pins (I'm left-handed), particularly the 7, and I'm not sure why.

[manke]

Pick up your spares the strikes will come!!

[bubba809]

I used to be deadly with my tens pins. This year, I've lost it. I think I'm something like 1/8 my last two weeks. Why does this happen??

[vdubtx]

I used to be deadly with my tens pins. This year, I've lost it. I think I'm something like 1/8 my last two weeks. Why does this happen??

Focus, bubba-san. Focus.

[Amyers]

I used to be deadly with my tens pins. This year, I've lost it. I think I'm something like 1/8 my last two weeks. Why does this happen??

It get's in your head I don't know why but if I miss one I'm going to miss at least one more that night. If you get on a down streak with them I've found changing some thing very small a board where I stand or aim helps.

[bubba809]

It get's in your head I don't know why but if I miss one I'm going to miss at least one more that night. If you get on a down streak with them I've found changing some thing very small a board where I stand or aim helps.

Yes, I agree Amyers. I've debated about moving 1-2 boards to the left. Funny thing is it's not one way I'm missing. Two will be to the left, the next two will be in the gutter.

I know, vdub is spot on with the "focus" part. Problem is more I focus the harder I try. My last three series have been 582 574 581. It's not hard to figure out what I should of rolled if I could consistantly make the 10 pin.

[Amyers]

Yes, I agree Amyers. I've debated about moving 1-2 boards to the left. Funny thing is it's not one way I'm missing. Two will be to the left, the next two will be in the gutter.

I know, vdub is spot on with the "focus" part. Problem is more I focus the harder I try. My last three series have been 582 574 581. It's not hard to figure out what I should of rolled if I could consistantly make the 10 pin.

The board movement is more to do with just changing something to give you a different look at it than actually necessary for targeting. It's always more in your head than anywhere at least if your like me. Sometimes that just helps me feel like I'm doing something about it.

[vdubtx]

I used to be deadly with my tens pins. This year, I've lost it. I think I'm something like 1/8 my last two weeks. Why does this happen??

Also, if you subscribe to Bowling This Month, Susie Minshew has an article that was posted recently about shooting single pin spares. When I had my lesson with her last summer, she mentioned to me exactly what is in the article.

Essentially is to not think about just shooting at the 10 pin, think of shooting at the 6-10. Shoot at 2 pins rather than one:


Let’s take commonly makeable spares like the 6/10 or the 4/7. Occasionally you get to a place where you feel like you’ve never shot it before or worse, experience one of those times when you feel like you could chop it all day long (unless you tried to chop it, of course). And that is the first of the two helpers for this dis-ease at shooting the spare.

If you‘ve been chopping a spare, I dare you to do it on purpose. That’s right. Go ahead and pick the 10 off or leave it standing there while you cherry pick the 6. Pretty tough, huh?

[Aslan]

I know, vdub is spot on with the "focus" part. Problem is more I focus the harder I try. My last three series have been 582 574 581. It's not hard to figure out what I should of rolled if I could consistantly make the 10 pin.
I had the same issue the last couple months and it turned out to be timing related. You might want to find a pro to evaluate your timing. If you miss on the same side every time...then it's an allignment issue. If you miss on both sides randomly...it's probably timing.


For some reason, I've started having trouble with corner pins (I'm left-handed), particularly the 7, and I'm not sure why.

Your question is it's own answer. A lefty is supposed to leave and struggle with 7-pins...just like a righty is supposed to leave and struggle with 10-pins. I once had a short conversation with Barry Asher and it went:

Barry: "How are things going?"
Me: "I'm struggling with the 10-pin."
Barry: "Don't feel bad, so is everyone else."
Me: "It's just frustrating because I leave it so dang much."
Barry: "And the better you get, the more often you'll leave it."

And...he's spot on correct. I used to dread leaving it because I was < 50% at picking it up. NOW...I LOVE leaving it because:
1) It gives me more practice at making it.
2) It usually means I hit the pocket.
3) It usually means I'm only a slight adjustment or ball change away from striking.
4) It means I DON'T LEAVE a 1-2-8, 1-2-5-8, 1-2-4, 1-2-4-10, or 1-2-10...which are currently the banes of my existence.

Statistics:
Prior to fixing my allignment issue: 59% on single 10-pins
After fixing allignment issues: 68% on single 10-pins

Still working on the timing issues though. If I can fix the timing...I'd be surprised to see that number < the high 70s.

[Mark O]

Some good comments by everyone and I can definitely speak to focus being key. Every shot deserves equal focus, not just your strike ball. The time you take the single pin for granted is the time you're going to miss it. If you throw plastic straight at spares then you have a TON of miss room to still make the spare and only way you're going to miss is due to a lack of focus or a timing issue causing you to drastically miss your target. I highly recommend that Susie Minshew article as well, it is really helpful for bowlers of skill levels!



Your question is it's own answer. A lefty is supposed to leave and struggle with 7-pins...just like a righty is supposed to leave and struggle with 10-pins.


As much as I thought there were a lot of good comments in this thread, this one really bothered me. I completely agree about the leaving the pin part, but couldn't disagree more about the struggling with it part. Almost every bowler I know hates shooting their respective corner pin and it's that mentality that causes you to miss it. If you throw plastic straight at the pin, you may not have as much miss room but you still have a lot of it to make the spare and the same rules apply, you're only going to miss it because of a lack of focus or a timing issue. Or perhaps I can add because of a lack of confidence. If you shoot your 10s expecting to miss, just hit the reset button and save yourself the effort. If you treat your 10s like it's any other pin that you've made 1000s of times your conversion percentage is going to rise dramatically.

[Aslan]

As much as I thought there were a lot of good comments in this thread, this one really bothered me. I completely agree about the leaving the pin part, but couldn't disagree more about the struggling with it part.
YAY! I get the bothering comment award!! The rest you can #*%^ it!! Aslan Rulz!! #reallybothering

The comment was essentially "I am frustrated because I leave a lot of 7-pins (as a lefty) and struggle to pick them up (more so than other pins). I responded by pointing out that on average most left handers WILL leave a 7-pin more often than any other pin...and due to the physics of a properly thrown bowling ball...are least likely to convert said pin versus other single pins.

And...at the risk of further bothering you with logic and whatnot...there IS a reason for this. You see, for a lefty...going right to left at the 7-pin...your ball will naturally want to move right...but due to where the 7-pin sits...you can't hit it from the left. Now, Bowl1820 had some actual numbers posted...but the MudpuppyCliffNotes version is the 7-pin is actually harder to pick up for a lefty (and 2nd hardest for a righty) simply due to it's placement in relation to the gutter.


Or perhaps I can add because of a lack of confidence. If you shoot your 10s expecting to miss, just hit the reset button and save yourself the effort. If you treat your 10s like it's any other pin that you've made 1000s of times your conversion percentage is going to rise dramatically.
So...in your world...the strategy is to lie to yourself and hope that in doing so...your self will be confused into thinking a 7-pin is a 2-pin....but your mind WILL remember to guide the ball into the 7-pin NOT the 2-pin upon execution??? Wow...my head would explode if on top of the several usual thoughts...I have to simultaneously try to trick myself. :eek:

The 7-pin is a 7-pin. It just is. It IS statistically harder to hit due to it's placement on the lane...hardEST to hit (of single-pin leaves) for a lefty throwing the standard (non-back-up ball) release. Those are the facts. Whether you like the facts...are scared of the facts...are "bothered" by the facts...etc...does not change that they are in fact...the Facts. My advice (humble at best) it to stop pretending the 7-pin is something it isn't...and find a line that allows you to consistently hit it.

[Mark O]

YAY! I get the bothering comment award!! The rest you can #*%^ it!! Aslan Rulz!! #reallybothering

The comment was essentially "I am frustrated because I leave a lot of 7-pins (as a lefty) and struggle to pick them up (more so than other pins). I responded by pointing out that on average most left handers WILL leave a 7-pin more often than any other pin...and due to the physics of a properly thrown bowling ball...are least likely to convert said pin versus other single pins.

And...at the risk of further bothering you with logic and whatnot...there IS a reason for this. You see, for a lefty...going right to left at the 7-pin...your ball will naturally want to move right...but due to where the 7-pin sits...you can't hit it from the left. Now, Bowl1820 had some actual numbers posted...but the MudpuppyCliffNotes version is the 7-pin is actually harder to pick up for a lefty (and 2nd hardest for a righty) simply due to it's placement in relation to the gutter.


So...in your world...the strategy is to lie to yourself and hope that in doing so...your self will be confused into thinking a 7-pin is a 2-pin....but your mind WILL remember to guide the ball into the 7-pin NOT the 2-pin upon execution??? Wow...my head would explode if on top of the several usual thoughts...I have to simultaneously try to trick myself. :eek:

The 7-pin is a 7-pin. It just is. It IS statistically harder to hit due to it's placement on the lane...hardEST to hit (of single-pin leaves) for a lefty throwing the standard (non-back-up ball) release. Those are the facts. Whether you like the facts...are scared of the facts...are "bothered" by the facts...etc...does not change that they are in fact...the Facts. My advice (humble at best) it to stop pretending the 7-pin is something it isn't...and find a line that allows you to consistently hit it.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say, I am in complete agreement with you! You're absolutely right, the corner pins are statistically harder to hit than the others, I mean it's common sense that the corner pins are the hardest single pins to make on the lane. Due to the pin's location in relation to the gutter, you effectively lose half of the miss room you have with other single pins and that alone makes it harder to convert without even taking into account how you actually throw the ball at the pin.

But I'm talking from a purely mental standpoint here, not a physical one. When you leave a 5 pin, you shoot it confidently because you know you're going to make it. So how come when it's a corner pin standing instead the confidence goes away? I know bowlers who are 90+% on non-corner single pin conversions but only 50% or worse on their corner pin conversions. They are more difficult...but they aren't THAT much more difficult that you go from making 9 out of 10 to only having a 50/50 shot because the pin is in the corner. I wouldn't want anyone to think of a 7 pin as 2 pin or 4 pin or any other pin, I want you to think of a 7 pin as a 7 pin and shoot the 7 pin. But I also want you to think that you know how to make it, you know you can make it, and then get lined up, throw a good shot, and make the damn thing!

I'm just tired of the excuse, oh I'm a righty/lefty, I'm supposed to struggle with the 10 pin/7 pin so it's okay that I can't make it often. Yes it's going to be your toughest pin, yes you aren't going to make as many of them as you would other pins, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot it with just as much confidence and make the majority of them.

[J Anderson]

I'm just tired of the excuse, oh I'm a righty/lefty, I'm supposed to struggle with the 10 pin/7 pin so it's okay that I can't make it often. Yes it's going to be your toughest pin, yes you aren't going to make as many of them as you would other pins, but that doesn't mean you can't shoot it with just as much confidence and make the majority of them.

Years ago following a Nelson Burton Jr. tip of the week, I started shooting the 10 pin on the first ball of each practice frame. I am now at the point where I would rather shoot the 10 than the "easier" 7 pin.

[fortheloveofbowling]

Years ago following a Nelson Burton Jr. tip of the week, I started shooting the 10 pin on the first ball of each practice frame. I am now at the point where I would rather shoot the 10 than the "easier" 7 pin.

That is a good idea. I'm going to try that some of my practice games.

[bowl1820]

Here I think is a good example of why spare shooting is important.

This is my last league set I had 7 opens.

The first game we lost big (by 106 pins), a guy on the other team shot a 275. Now my 3 opens wouldn't have meant anything as far as us winning if I had picked them up that game, but It cost me 32 pins so no 200 game.

The 2nd game only 3 opens again, we lost by (16 pins). So if I had picked up just 2 of those we would have won that game.

Now the 3rd game only 1 open and we won.

But lost total by only 49 pins, Those 7 opens equaled 74 pins.

We only won 2 points out of 7.

So my 7 missed spares cost 3 points for the team, two 200 games and what should have been a 649 series.

So here spares were important

http://s5.postimg.org/c8xud2snb/week_26.jpg

[Mark O]

Years ago following a Nelson Burton Jr. tip of the week, I started shooting the 10 pin on the first ball of each practice frame. I am now at the point where I would rather shoot the 10 than the "easier" 7 pin.

That is a very good idea and it will really help! For the past two seasons whenever my teammates and I would go out to practice we would always shoot a game of low ball to practice our corners and it made much better spare shooters out of all of us.

And bowl that is a perfect example of why spare shooting is important, you aren't just missing 1 pin, you're throwing away around 10 with every open frame and those missed pins add up quick and are often the difference between winning and losing! I have the same mentality, I always think about the spares I missed and them costing the team. But I always try to keep in mind that in league bowling you win as a team and you lose as a team, it's not all on you.

[Aslan]

When you leave a 5 pin, you shoot it confidently because you know you're going to make it.

As MWhite would say, "You've obviously never seen Aslan shoot at 5-pins."

#spoiler81%

[Hampe]

As MWhite would say, "You've obviously never seen Aslan shoot at 5-pins."

#spoiler81%
For someone who only hits the pocket 40% of the time, I'd say 81% isn't too bad for the 5 pin....

:P

[Aslan]

For someone who only hits the pocket 40% of the time, I'd say 81% isn't too bad for the 5 pin....

:P

Fortunately, you don't have to hit the pocket to pick up the 5-pin. It helps though...