Why not bowl straight?

[NewToBowling]

Look, I like and want to hook the ball. It just looks "cooler" and I hear all arguments that it increases pin carry and angle of entry is better, etc...

But honestly I think "most" people would be better served bowling straight. First of all it's easier to master. No movement of wrists or hands. Just roll off your hand. I know the margin for error is greater as a little off of the release and you are probably hitting the gutters and not the pocket.

But you don't have to worry about oil conditions. Every lane will play the same. And your spare game will be better because you don't have to switch between hook and straight releases.

The enthusiast or league player would probably be more consistent with straight bowling. I know a lot of hook bowlers have inconsistent games with +/- 20-40 pin counts a night. I'm guessing a straight bowler would probably maintain a more consistent average.

Full disclosure I hook my balls (at least attempt) and don't bowl straight. Just food for thought...

[Aslan]

Bowl1820 (I think) posted a really interesting video of where they did a study related to the entry angle the ball hits the pocket...and what they found was that in order to hit the pocket in an optimum way to strike consistently; a person throwing a straight ball would need to stand one lane over. So a "true straight" player would have terrible time with carry and in this new era of bowling...would be destroyed by the competition even with spectacular spare shooting ability.

That being said, the 'arguement' that 'straighter is greater' is more in relation to how MUCH hook a bowler should add to their game. Generally, the more hook you add, the more you open up the lanes, the better your entry angle and the better your strikeability. E.J. Tacket and Belmo are good examples of power players that have completely opened up the lane and maximize their entry angle and are very successful.

HOWEVER...especially at the amateur level...you find that as you open up those lanes and increase those angles...you run into generally 3 problems:
1) Shot repeatability suffers. Ability to hit your mark suffers.
2) When you miss...you tend to leave less make-able spares.
3) The lane conditions greatly determine your success.

The guys who tend towards a straighter game (but still with enough hook to have a good entry angle) don't deal with the disadvantages above...but give up carry. And while it seems like an easy trade-off...carry has become crucial in this era of bowling...which is why you continue to see ball manufacturers and high level bowlers try to get as much angle as possible despite the negatives.

If you click on my USBC# you can go watch the 1st Annual Billy Hardwick Memorial Aslan vs. ZDawg Southern California Invitational and one takeaway (I would say even MWhite would agree...but I'm not as brave nor as foolish as RobM) from that event was that the superior bowler (MWhite) came in 3rd out of 3...and one possible reason is/was that he had the "highest rev" type of style...on lane conditions that weren't optimum. ZDawg came in 2nd...and had the higher rev release of Aslan and himself. So, the lane conditions were bad...and that affected the higher rev guys much more than the straighter player (Aslan). This then played out the following match when Aslan and MWhite played on old wood lanes. Aslan again beat the better bowler because the wood lanes maximized the straighter play and made things very difficult on a higher rev player (MWhite).

Unfortunately we didn't tape the Wood Lane Challenge...because that footage would have been really interesting to show the dramatic differences...and it'd be fun to insert in any response to MWhite where there is snarkiness...which is 93%...but I digress.

And it's why I love to watch high rev guys fail...and I'll usually say "Live by the hook, die by the hook." When those "big hook" guys are "on"...they can be nearly unbeatable. I watched a semi-pro (pro shop guy I think is affiliated with RotGrip) in a recent tournament...thumbless style...and he was impossible to beat. When he missed...it was almost always an open. I think he made like 40% of his single-pin spares....but it didn't matter because he'd string 6 strikes together like it was nothing.

Thats my thoughts on it anyways.

[Amyers]

When I first got into bowling back in the 80's there were still a lot of straight players in the game at my house. Most of them were guys who thew the ball about 19 mph down the lane and when it hit the pins would fly up into the air unfortunately for them very often there was a pin still standing. I never seen any of them average much over the 180-190 range for a season. Now back in those days you could compete with those kind of scores especially if you were having a good day. Today if you are bowling even top level in the house you better be able to put out 230-240 on at least a somewhat consistent basis or your going to lose a lot more than you win.

As far as lower level bowlers goes it doesn't matter if you are throwing straight as an arrow or hooking the lane if you can't repeat shots your gonna stink. It's really not any harder to repeat shots throwing a hook than it is throwing straight. Lane condition wise you may have a point I have seen some to some extent on some really sorry lanes you may be better off but even then I haven't seen lanes bad enough I couldn't throw my plastic ball and keep it in the pocket (not saying they don't exists) and I'm perfectly capable of throwing 200+ with it on a good day.

Now you may see a lot of lower level and even mid level bowlers or who have too much ball for the conditions. I had a friend of mine ask me to come watch him bowl because he couldn't figure out why his scores were coming down so much in the 2nd and third games. Got there the guy was trying to throw a Brunswick Mastermind on wood lanes with light oil.

[Aslan]

As far as lower level bowlers goes it doesn't matter if you are throwing straight as an arrow or hooking the lane if you can't repeat shots your gonna stink. It's really not any harder to repeat shots throwing a hook than it is throwing straight.

Thumbless and 2-handers loft the ball a good distance. The further out you place the ball...the harder it is to hit that spot consistently. Thats why bowlers have been taught for decades that you aim for the arrows not the pins. So...unless you're a high rev player that sets the ball down on the foul line...I stand by my comment.


Lane condition wise you may have a point I have seen some to some extent on some really sorry lanes you may be better off but even then I haven't seen lanes bad enough I couldn't throw my plastic ball and keep it in the pocket (not saying they don't exists) and I'm perfectly capable of throwing 200+ with it on a good day.
Ask MWhite about throwing a plastic ball on my old wood lanes...I'm sure he'll have lots to say on the topic.


Now you may see a lot of lower level and even mid level bowlers or who have too much ball for the conditions. I had a friend of mine ask me to come watch him bowl because he couldn't figure out why his scores were coming down so much in the 2nd and third games. Got there the guy was trying to throw a Brunswick Mastermind on wood lanes with light oil.
I'm kinda torn on this one. My stance has always been that ball technology doesn't matter that much in the big scheme of things. But, on the other hand, I've seen guys get new, aggressive equipment and even when they miss they strike...so maybe I downplay it too much. My teammate just got a Motiv Jackal and we were joking that he could just throw it anywhere and it'd strike. He'd miss 3 boards left or 9 boards right...STRIKE. Meanwhile I miss 1 board left and leave a 4-6....3 boards right and leave a 1-2-8.

[NewToBowling]

Good stuff. I know at the end of the day to maintain high scores I do think hook bowling is necessary. But I'm sure some would be content with 180-190 avg with straight bowling

[swingset]

But I'm sure some would be content with 180-190 avg with straight bowling

Yeah, and some could be content eating their own boogers, doesn't mean it's the best dish on the menu.

Hooking a ball can be done rather effortlessly if you learn some basic mechanics, with no more strain or movement on the wrist/arm than conventional. If you can get your hand behind the ball and swing freely, it's gonna hook...a little or a lot. All the exaggerated body mechanics, cupping, muscling, wrist-flip is extra work that doesn't create hook but exaggerates it. I hook quite a bit, but my release is no more strenuous or inconsistent than a house bowler with a poly ball.

Further, one of the best advantages a hook ball has is that it creates a margin for error on many oil patterns - it has nothing to do with looking cool. Entry angle is one thing, the other is being able to miss more boards and still recover to the pocket.

[Amyers]

Thumbless and 2-handers loft the ball a good distance. The further out you place the ball...the harder it is to hit that spot consistently. Thats why bowlers have been taught for decades that you aim for the arrows not the pins. So...unless you're a high rev player that sets the ball down on the foul line...I stand by my comment.


Ask MWhite about throwing a plastic ball on my old wood lanes...I'm sure he'll have lots to say on the topic.


I'm kinda torn on this one. My stance has always been that ball technology doesn't matter that much in the big scheme of things. But, on the other hand, I've seen guys get new, aggressive equipment and even when they miss they strike...so maybe I downplay it too much. My teammate just got a Motiv Jackal and we were joking that he could just throw it anywhere and it'd strike. He'd miss 3 boards left or 9 boards right...STRIKE. Meanwhile I miss 1 board left and leave a 4-6....3 boards right and leave a 1-2-8.

1. Thumbless and Two Handed are a different conversation We were discussing hooking the ball in general. Hook does not always = loft

2. That was why (not saying they don't exist) was there

3. The equipment has to match the lane oily conditions yeah use the more aggressive equipment not saying it doesn't have it's place. You have to generate the bare minimum amount of revs though or no equipment is going to make a difference hitting what your aiming at helps too.

As far as how much hook goes and where you play the lanes those are a product of your bowling style, what you like to do, what the lanes are dictating, and your ability level to control your speed, revs, axis tilt, and other things.

[rv driver]

Yeah, and some could be content eating their own boogers, doesn't mean it's the best dish on the menu.

Hooking a ball can be done rather effortlessly if you learn some basic mechanics, with no more strain or movement on the wrist/arm than conventional. If you can get your hand behind the ball and swing freely, it's gonna hook...a little or a lot. All the exaggerated body mechanics, cupping, muscling, wrist-flip is extra work that doesn't create hook but exaggerates it. I hook quite a bit, but my release is no more strenuous or inconsistent than a house bowler with a poly ball.

Further, one of the best advantages a hook ball has is that it creates a margin for error on many oil patterns - it has nothing to do with looking cool. Entry angle is one thing, the other is being able to miss more boards and still recover to the pocket.
Yeah, I've noticed that playing straight requires far more accuracy than playing a hook.

[bowl1820]

Bowl1820 (I think) posted a really interesting video of where they did a study related to the entry angle the ball hits the pocket...and what they found was that in order to hit the pocket in an optimum way to strike consistently; a person throwing a straight ball would need to stand one lane over.


What Aslan is referring to is the USBC Pin Carry Study, which at the time found that a ball entering at a 6° angle with a 2 1/2" offset produced the highest percentages of strikes. (Though this info needs updating, do to advances in ball technology.)

To achieve that angle with a straight ball, you'd have to be about two lanes over.

If you throw a straight ball from the corner of your lane to the pocket, that's about a 1.5° angle. At a 1.5° angle the percentages of strikes falls off sharply if you get off, So you'd have to be very accurate.


But you don't have to worry about oil conditions. Every lane will play the same.

As for it taking the conditions out play, while for the most that's true when shooting spares. When shooting strikes the conditions can affect things like ball speed and deflection
.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I guess you could go with the helicopter style like some of the taiwan bowlers. The way they throw it the lanes are taken totally out of play.

[NewToBowling]

I guess you could go with the helicopter style like some of the taiwan bowlers. The way they throw it the lanes are taken totally out of play.

I think they do that because the lanes are oiled all the way to the pin. But I could be wrong

[Monte]

Bowl1820 (I think) posted a really interesting video of where they did a study related to the entry angle the ball hits the pocket...and what they found was that in order to hit the pocket in an optimum way to strike consistently; a person throwing a straight ball would need to stand one lane over. So a "true straight" player would have terrible time with carry and in this new era of bowling...would be destroyed by the competition even with spectacular spare shooting ability.

I remember posting something similar (re: the video). It was done by a Japanese pro bowler and some of his colleagues. They determined that the "optimal" entry angle into the pocket for a "perfect strike" was about 3º. Which means, yes, you would have to release the ball one lane over.

In fact, I believe it's this vid:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EVw8c-X1l4

[fortheloveofbowling]

I think they do that because the lanes are oiled all the way to the pin. But I could be wrong

No, that is the style they use no matter the pattern. If the lanes were oiled all the way to the pins everyone would throw the ball straight as an arrow.

[JoeInPI]

I spent hours on YouTube watching old 1972-1980 PBA film last night. Watching Guppy Troup throw an old Ebonite rubber ball against Mark Roth's urethane in the '84 US Open, or Husted, Benoit, Laub, Ozio, Voss, etc- I'm pretty sure you can string strikes with a straighter ball. Heck- Mark Roth's 5-6 boards of "crank" wouldn't even be a blip today.

Watching someone fine tune hand position at release to make a down and in shot work is more fun than watching someone chuck ridiculous revs to the corner and watch it come back. Anyone can buy that game- but watching some of those guys try to play a 2 board target with a ball that will not hook back if you miss- that's another thing... :)

I hook sometimes, but I much prefer playing up 7-9 and down and into the pocket. Nothing against the crankers, everyone has their own style- I like watching Belmo. But I really enjoy watching someone hit the same spot shot after shot with little margin for error due to less hook.

[Aslan]

I'm pretty sure you can string strikes with a straighter ball. Heck- Mark Roth's 5-6 boards of "crank" wouldn't even be a blip today.
You "can"….but your carry will suffer. I just practiced with a urethane ball and had a 10% strike rate. Hit the pocket 80% with virtually no carry to speak of. Remember, back in "the day", players didn't average 249 during qualifying…and 180s or 190s weren't as uncommon as they are now.


Watching someone fine tune hand position at release to make a down and in shot work is more fun than watching someone chuck ridiculous revs to the corner and watch it come back. Anyone can buy that game- but watching some of those guys try to play a 2 board target with a ball that will not hook back if you miss- that's another thing... :)...But I really enjoy watching someone hit the same spot shot after shot with little margin for error due to less hook.
Totally agree there.

[J Anderson]

Watching someone fine tune hand position at release to make a down and in shot work is more fun than watching someone chuck ridiculous revs to the corner and watch it come back. Anyone can buy that game- but watching some of those guys try to play a 2 board target with a ball that will not hook back if you miss- that's another thing... :)


Where can I buy "ridiculous revs"?

[RobLV1]

Where can I buy "ridiculous revs"?

So true! Developing a high rev/high speed release takes dedication and thousands of hours of practice. The alternative is to choose not to do the work and just bad-mouth those players who have put in their time and developed the power game that is required in modern bowling.

[bubba809]

So true! Developing a high rev/high speed release takes dedication and thousands of hours of practice. The alternative is to choose not to do the work and just bad-mouth those players who have put in their time and developed the power game that is required in modern bowling.


.....are we referring to someone in particular Rob?

[Mike White]

I think they do that because the lanes are oiled all the way to the pin. But I could be wrong

About the helicopter release used in some asian areas.

It came about from lanes that had very little oil on them.

The weak release was able to be competitive, because a normal hook ball was very hard to control.

[Mike White]

Where can I buy "ridiculous revs"?

I'll sell you some of mine, I have plenty extra.

[Aslan]

So true! Developing a high rev/high speed release takes dedication and thousands of hours of practice. The alternative is to choose not to do the work and just bad-mouth those players who have put in their time and developed the power game that is required in modern bowling.

I think that statement is inaccurate.

I don't like the way the game has turned into a rev contest...I don't like that it's taken a lot of the previous attributes of great bowlers and made them obselete...I don't like that we've seen a 300% increase in perfect games...I don't like that spare shooting has lost priority to the point that the world has even created a new scoring system that makes spare shooting an afterthought...and I don't like the net effects of these "modern" changes in terms of bowling virtually disappearing into irrelevance.

So no...I'm not a big fan of the game as it's developed.

BUT...I still RESPECT that high level bowlers, rev dominant bowlers included, have put in the time and effort to get to that next level.

What I DON'T respect are those that have NOT put in the time nor effort and are bowling 200+ games but are completely unable to pick up spares. They have "propped up their games" using modern equipment and in my opinion are making a mockery of the sport because they're too lazy to put IN that work/effort.

Belmo is a perfect example. I don't like Belmo...I don't like his antics...his lack of sportsmanship...his lack of class...his arrogance...nor do I like his style...at ALL. BUT...but...I don't think there's a guy on the tour that has worked harder and put in more effort into developing his game, even Chris Barnes, than Belmo has. He's not just better than other 2-handers...he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than other 2-handers. He's inspired SO many young bowlers to adopt the 2-handed approach...but the downside is...too many young bowlers see Belmo throw 2-handed, see his success, and think all they gotta do is bowl 2-handed and they will be a superstar. Belmo didn't become great because he's 2-handed. He became great by working on his game a LOT...2-handed just gives him an extra edge.

[J Anderson]

I think that statement is inaccurate.

I don't like the way the game has turned into a rev contest...I don't like that it's taken a lot of the previous attributes of great bowlers and made them obselete...I don't like that we've seen a 300% increase in perfect games...I don't like that spare shooting has lost priority to the point that the world has even created a new scoring system that makes spare shooting an afterthought...and I don't like the net effects of these "modern" changes in terms of bowling virtually disappearing into irrelevance.

So no...I'm not a big fan of the game as it's developed.

BUT...I still RESPECT that high level bowlers, rev dominant bowlers included, have put in the time and effort to get to that next level.

What I DON'T respect are those that have NOT put in the time nor effort and are bowling 200+ games but are completely unable to pick up spares. They have "propped up their games" using modern equipment and in my opinion are making a mockery of the sport because they're too lazy to put IN that work/effort.

Belmo is a perfect example. I don't like Belmo...I don't like his antics...his lack of sportsmanship...his lack of class...his arrogance...nor do I like his style...at ALL. BUT...but...I don't think there's a guy on the tour that has worked harder and put in more effort into developing his game, even Chris Barnes, than Belmo has. He's not just better than other 2-handers...he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than other 2-handers. He's inspired SO many young bowlers to adopt the 2-handed approach...but the downside is...too many young bowlers see Belmo throw 2-handed, see his success, and think all they gotta do is bowl 2-handed and they will be a superstar. Belmo didn't become great because he's 2-handed. He became great by working on his game a LOT...2-handed just gives him an extra edge.

It is not the high rev game that is/has changed the game. It's the easy house patterns and the high tech balls that make a mockery of the USBC ball standards.

What you've said about kids wanting to throw like Belmonte could be said of any sports superstar. You probably grew up wanting too skate like Gretzky. I wanted to hit like Mikey Mantle. Very few of us ever become nearly as good as our sports heroes.

As for Belmonte's edge, any player or team at the top of the heap is going to have a bit of a psyche factor in their favor. Eventually some one else will knock him off the hill.

[larry mc]

as was stated its all about entry angle and carry percentage

[NewToBowling]

I think that statement is inaccurate.

I don't like the way the game has turned into a rev contest...I don't like that it's taken a lot of the previous attributes of great bowlers and made them obselete...I don't like that we've seen a 300% increase in perfect games...I don't like that spare shooting has lost priority to the point that the world has even created a new scoring system that makes spare shooting an afterthought...and I don't like the net effects of these "modern" changes in terms of bowling virtually disappearing into irrelevance.

So no...I'm not a big fan of the game as it's developed.

BUT...I still RESPECT that high level bowlers, rev dominant bowlers included, have put in the time and effort to get to that next level.

What I DON'T respect are those that have NOT put in the time nor effort and are bowling 200+ games but are completely unable to pick up spares. They have "propped up their games" using modern equipment and in my opinion are making a mockery of the sport because they're too lazy to put IN that work/effort.

Belmo is a perfect example. I don't like Belmo...I don't like his antics...his lack of sportsmanship...his lack of class...his arrogance...nor do I like his style...at ALL. BUT...but...I don't think there's a guy on the tour that has worked harder and put in more effort into developing his game, even Chris Barnes, than Belmo has. He's not just better than other 2-handers...he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than other 2-handers. He's inspired SO many young bowlers to adopt the 2-handed approach...but the downside is...too many young bowlers see Belmo throw 2-handed, see his success, and think all they gotta do is bowl 2-handed and they will be a superstar. Belmo didn't become great because he's 2-handed. He became great by working on his game a LOT...2-handed just gives him an extra edge.

I agree with your Belmo statement. Although I do like him 😄

You can tell he is very high level in that he is very accurate with his spares, even tough ones. And he bowls two handed even on spares

[rv driver]

I think that statement is inaccurate.

I don't like the way the game has turned into a rev contest...I don't like that it's taken a lot of the previous attributes of great bowlers and made them obselete...I don't like that we've seen a 300% increase in perfect games...I don't like that spare shooting has lost priority to the point that the world has even created a new scoring system that makes spare shooting an afterthought...and I don't like the net effects of these "modern" changes in terms of bowling virtually disappearing into irrelevance.

So no...I'm not a big fan of the game as it's developed.

BUT...I still RESPECT that high level bowlers, rev dominant bowlers included, have put in the time and effort to get to that next level.

What I DON'T respect are those that have NOT put in the time nor effort and are bowling 200+ games but are completely unable to pick up spares. They have "propped up their games" using modern equipment and in my opinion are making a mockery of the sport because they're too lazy to put IN that work/effort.

Belmo is a perfect example. I don't like Belmo...I don't like his antics...his lack of sportsmanship...his lack of class...his arrogance...nor do I like his style...at ALL. BUT...but...I don't think there's a guy on the tour that has worked harder and put in more effort into developing his game, even Chris Barnes, than Belmo has. He's not just better than other 2-handers...he's SIGNIFICANTLY better than other 2-handers. He's inspired SO many young bowlers to adopt the 2-handed approach...but the downside is...too many young bowlers see Belmo throw 2-handed, see his success, and think all they gotta do is bowl 2-handed and they will be a superstar. Belmo didn't become great because he's 2-handed. He became great by working on his game a LOT...2-handed just gives him an extra edge.
Kudos for this.

[rv driver]

It is not the high rev game that is/has changed the game. It's the easy house patterns and the high tech balls that make a mockery of the USBC ball standards.

What you've said about kids wanting to throw like Belmonte could be said of any sports superstar. You probably grew up wanting too skate like Gretzky. I wanted to hit like Mikey Mantle. Very few of us ever become nearly as good as our sports heroes.

As for Belmonte's edge, any player or team at the top of the heap is going to have a bit of a psyche factor in their favor. Eventually some one else will knock him off the hill.
It's like any other hobby. We've created more avenues for insipid tinkering with toys. We've gone from "How do I perfect my game" to "I need a ball that will do ... "

[JoeInPI]

.....are we referring to someone in particular Rob?

Pretty sure it's me. I forgot that you can't have opinions on forums, and people get butthurt. My bad.

My bad- I forgot that you NEED a high speed/high rev game to score now, and that nobody works harder than a high speed/high rev player. :rolleyes:

Buy a game? Yeah- Just about anyone who wants to bowl can go to a proshop in 2015, buy a couple of new reax balls, some shoes, and score higher as a beginner than someone 20-30 years ago buying urethane or rubber. Technology took care of that, it isn't a rip on anyone's skill or practice acumen.