2015 USBC Open Championships!

[vdubtx]

Well, Nationals are underway and the lane conditions have been posted. Seems like the shot can be a humbling one with a little bit flatter pattern on the lanes.

Team Graph - LINK (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/tournaments/pdfs/usbcopenchamp/2015/2015OCTEAMoilpattern.pdf)

Doubles/Singles Graph - LINK (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/tournaments/pdfs/usbcopenchamp/2015/2015OCDSoilpattern.pdf)

Both patterns have a much lower ratio lending to a much flatter pattern:

From Jeff Richgels blog:


The 2015 team pattern is 38 feet with 26.9 mL of oil at a 1.64-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

The 2015 minors pattern is 39 feet with 27.05 mL of oil and a 1.86-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

The 2014 team pattern was 43 feet with 24.4 mL of oil at a 2.65-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

The 2014 minors pattern was 40 feet with 26.062 mL of oil at a 2.89-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

The 2013 team pattern was 41 feet with 26.05 mL of oil at a 2.57-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

The 2013 minors pattern was 39 feet with 24.4 mL of oil at a 2.37-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

This year’s Open Championships patterns are more like this year’s USBC Masters pattern
The 2015 Masters pattern was 39 feet with 30.923 mL of oil at a 1.94-1 ratio of the outside track to the middle.

Seems spare shooting will need to be up to snuff this year. Not a lot of miss room and a shorter pattern could create some interesting conditions later in the sets. If the team is right away going up 15 will likely make things difficult later on. Will be discussing the patterns with my team so we can come up with a game plan.

So, Bowlingboards members, when are you gonna be in El Paso?

[Perrin]

I'm going to be there at the end of April. 24th and 25th are my bowling dates.

I watched the live feed last night and the way they played the lanes seemed to work out pretty well. most of the started between 5 and 10 and then as the set progressed moved in. I think the farthest left I saw any of them get was ~15 most of them were playing ~8 at the tracer mark so pretty much the rule of 31.

When are you going to be bowling?

[vdubtx]

Watching the stream now. Looks like they have opened the lane up to play a bit better than that first game. Started to atleast string some things together.

I will be bowling May 27-28.

Good luck to you.

Will certainly be getting our local lanes to put down the pattern as well as go to the ITRC to have them put it down for us as well.

[foreverincamo]

Good luck to all board members at the Open! Sure wish I could join you. Please post how you did so we can see

[Perrin]

Watching the stream now. Looks like they have opened the lane up to play a bit better than that first game. Started to atleast string some things together.

I will be bowling May 27-28.

Good luck to you.

Will certainly be getting our local lanes to put down the pattern as well as go to the ITRC to have them put it down for us as well.

Now that Bowl.com added webcams to the event you'll have to let us know what lanes you will be on.

I will be bowling April 24 and 25. Once I find out the lane assignment I'll try to get it posted on here. My daughters are excited that they will get to watch even though they don't get to go to the event with me.

[vdubtx]

Now that Bowl.com added webcams to the event you'll have to let us know what lanes you will be on.

I will be bowling April 24 and 25. Once I find out the lane assignment I'll try to get it posted on here. My daughters are excited that they will get to watch even though they don't get to go to the event with me.

Yea, webcams have been in use for a few years now. Last years cams were pretty horrible, this years are no exception. Will let you all know as soon as I get lane assignments.

[Mike White]

Yea, webcams have been in use for a few years now. Last years cams were pretty horrible, this years are no exception. Will let you all know as soon as I get lane assignments.

Last time I watched the webcams to see someone I knew, they spent half of the scanning time showing lanes that weren't assigned to anyone.

[vdubtx]

Last time I watched the webcams to see someone I knew, they spent half of the scanning time showing lanes that weren't assigned to anyone.

Yep, they rotate to show different lanes. They only have 3 of them and I think each covers 15 or so lanes at a time. Lucky it was half the time showing the lanes you were interested in seeing. I would have expected only 1/3 the time you were able to see a particular lane on them.

[vdubtx]

Watching a little bit of the cams this morning and see a lot of frustrated bowlers. Good to see that the bowlers leave their antics at the home lanes. :rolleyes:

Can't even count the number of times that I saw bowlers flipping off in one way or another the pins as if it was the pins that were the problem and not them hitting too far outside and ball not able to return to the pocket.

[Perrin]

yeah it is definitely an emphasis on accuracy this year. The live feeds have been really good to watch. unfortunately we don't get another one till the end of the month.

Would be great if after the live feed they could get at least one guy to come talk to them about lane play and decisions that the team made.

[ALazySavage]

I haven't had the opportunity to watch any of the feeds from this year, but from researching the pattern I am very excited to see the pattern flattened out this year. I'm bowling May 28th and 29th (so I may catch the last couple games that vdubtx bowls).

[Perrin]

Got a chance to practice on the d/s pattern last night.....

DANG! this may well be a humbling experience(208 very happy with this 117 not happy at all 187 ok with this game). all of the gear I have is drilled and surface prepped for league shots (1 house is med/dry 39' the other is med/heavy 42')

accuracy was at a premium which I expected but what I didn't expect is the minimal ball movement even when being accurate.

the 2 lines I found that were playable was laydown 9 10 at the arrows or laydown 14 13 at the arrows

it did start to open up even with only 2 of us bowling but wow very very tight lines... and if you were outside 10 at the tracer forget it it wasn't coming back.


Oddly of the three balls I tried I actually got the best lane reaction from my slingshot(ping above ring finger) over my origin path pearl(pin above bridge) and my meanstreak beatdown (pin right of ring finger but CG in grip center) THe Beatdown needs to be de-oiled and resurfaced though so not a fair comparison.

[vdubtx]

I haven't had the opportunity to watch any of the feeds from this year, but from researching the pattern I am very excited to see the pattern flattened out this year. I'm bowling May 28th and 29th (so I may catch the last couple games that vdubtx bowls).

Sounds good man. Come find me if you are there. Can help cheer on my 300 game(or likely my 300 series). LOL. :cool:

[Aslan]

Oddly of the three balls I tried I actually got the best lane reaction from my slingshot.

Yay! Go Slingshot!!

I'm tellin ya…thats an under-rated ball!

[vdubtx]

Went today to the ITRC to practice on both patterns. Had a pretty good look on both patterns going straighter than I typically go.

On the team pattern took my Hyper Cell to a 1500 grit finish and had a nice look up 10. A board or two off and was either washout or through the nose. Have to play it pretty tight to start. As the lane opened up for us, we started to move left and kept line and was able to swing it a bit. Shot pretty well.

On doubles and singles, I basically kept my same line with Hyper cell up 10 and continued hirtting pocket.experimented with couple other balls as well and had good results. Again, if right or left board or two, either washout or through the nose.

Encouraging for my first time on the patterns that I had a good look. Will be getting more practice in patterns in the coming weeks up to when we go end of May.

[vdubtx]

Posting one shot from what I recorded on the Team Pattern this past weekend. You can see the shot is a lot straighter. Had to be careful not to get too much speed or hand in the ball. Slow and gentle release is what I had best results with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dznt9f3i78&feature=youtu.be

[vdubtx]

Goo luck this week Perrin. Looking forward to hearing about how you did.

[Perrin]

Goo luck this week Perrin. Looking forward to hearing about how you did.

Thanks. We'll be headed down later this week and bowl Team 5 on Friday, then D/S on Saturday.

Hoping to get at least one set in on the bowler's journal lanes.

[foreverincamo]

I want to make a vacation of it when it goes to Reno and Vegas. Never been out there and would enjoy it.

[vdubtx]

How'd you do in El Paso Perrin?
Did you also bowl the 40 frame game and the Bowlers Journal tournaments?

[Perrin]

How'd you do in El Paso Perrin?
Did you also bowl the 40 frame game and the Bowlers Journal tournaments?

Better than I feared I would do and not as good as I had hoped.

I bowled a Fresh pattern BJI Friday morning and struggled quite a bit. the lanes are EXTREMELY speed sensitive which I wasn't expecting.

anyway team even we had 10 guys on the pair and pretty sure it was on at least 5 different lines. I started trying to burn an outside line but without others out there also I had no shot. I moved in and threw my slingshot and recovered a bit to shot 480 (way too many missed spares and 6 splits didn't help anything)

Doubles I had an ok shot to start but again missing too many spares missed a 3-10 in the tenth of the third game to miss a 500 (498 doubles score)

SIngles I lost all my carry. I starting picking up more spares but now I couldn't strike (481)

overall 1459 average 162

I am VERY happy that I got some practice but wish I would have gone with a group that worked together a bit better. If I would have started on the inside line in team I likely would have broken 500 there. and for Singles/doubles I should have gone with duller equipment or bought something that has a stronger core than my beatdown.

[vdubtx]

One thing is for sure, you were consistent. I agree with having a team that can play together. We have a few guys that we all play same line to begin with, but not the entire team on our crossing team that will stay with it.

As expected, spares are a huge deal this time around.

Watching scores from some friends that are there now and one guy that likes to think he is pro shot a 414 in team yesterday with a low of 129!! Yikes.
Just saw him last week in the pro-shop getting his stuff ready and drilling up a new ball.

My game plan for each event is to start with Hyper Cell at about 1500 grit dull for team and 2000 dull for dbl/singles and then move to my Disturbed at 2000 and finally First Blood at it's oob condition 1500 polished if needed.

Still couple more practice sessions to get in before heading down next month.

[Perrin]

One thing is for sure, you were consistent. I agree with having a team that can play together. We have a few guys that we all play same line to begin with, but not the entire team on our crossing team that will stay with it.

As expected, spares are a huge deal this time around.

Watching scores from some friends that are there now and one guy that likes to think he is pro shot a 414 in team yesterday with a low of 129!! Yikes.
Just saw him last week in the pro-shop getting his stuff ready and drilling up a new ball.

My game plan for each event is to start with Hyper Cell at about 1500 grit dull for team and 2000 dull for dbl/singles and then move to my Disturbed at 2000 and finally First Blood at it's oob condition 1500 polished if needed.

Still couple more practice sessions to get in before heading down next month.


I can say from what I saw in team the shot was actually further in than I was expecting.

your arsenal idea sounds pretty good. Have you shot on the ICE oil before? it keeps it's line longer than other oils but once it starts breaking down the line changes fast.

for spare practice I would say to practice targeting every pin in the deck. I ended up leaving some, for me, unusual spares and I wasn't well prepared to cover them. and the new lanes gave some unusual reaction with my normal spare shots. I normally throw spares at a lower speed and that caused issues with getting consistent ball reaction.

I should have focused on plastic for all spares rather the doing my normal plastic only for 6 and 10 pins.

Team went ok but in Doubles/singles about game five the line started moving about every third frame.

[vdubtx]

Yes, have shot on the ICE oil before. The last 2 years we have gone out to the USBC ITRC here in Dallas area and they can put any pattern requested out and they use the correct oil as well. I know that they won't be exact due to lane surface etc, but they are pretty close.

I have started to shoot in practice at all of my spares using plastic. Not too much issue so far that I have encountered. I am not going straight at the left side leaves, rather, I am crossing from right side over to left. Just feel more comfortable doing it that way I guess. I have always used plastic on right side leaves unless it is a 3-6-9-10 and I hook into that one to be sure I take out the sleeper 9.

[Perrin]

Yes, have shot on the ICE oil before. The last 2 years we have gone out to the USBC ITRC here in Dallas area and they can put any pattern requested out and they use the correct oil as well. I know that they won't be exact due to lane surface etc, but they are pretty close.

I have started to shoot in practice at all of my spares using plastic. Not too much issue so far that I have encountered. I am not going straight at the left side leaves, rather, I am crossing from right side over to left. Just feel more comfortable doing it that way I guess. I have always used plastic on right side leaves unless it is a 3-6-9-10 and I hook into that one to be sure I take out the sleeper 9.

Excellent sounds like you are already doing everything I would recommend :)

[vdubtx]

Local guys just took over Doubles event last night. Anthony Simonsen and Mark Sleeper Jr. Anthony is an 18 year old two-handed bowler and I posted about him before a long time ago. He was a guy that in my Tuesday league last year shot 868 on the pair next to us. Always awesome to watch wishing I could be like them. :)

This would be the 2nd year running if their score holds that Eagles come back to the DFW area. Last the the Team event that was won had 3 bowlers from DFW area. One of them I know and see pretty regularly.

[vdubtx]

I haven't had the opportunity to watch any of the feeds from this year, but from researching the pattern I am very excited to see the pattern flattened out this year. I'm bowling May 28th and 29th (so I may catch the last couple games that vdubtx bowls).

We might actually be bowling the same squads. Our captain changed out dates to 28th and 29th. Evening squads for both events.

[mc_runner]

Good luck to both of you!

[vdubtx]

Thanks mc_runner. Think we will need it with this flat pattern. Lots of people frustrated and ego's being checked at the door. :cool:

[vdubtx]

Back from El Paso. Will update soon with my results. Had a chance to see ALazySavage bowl in his team event. The shot was tough as expected and had to be accurate both with ball placement and ball speed.

[vdubtx]

The trip to El Paso was a great one. Had a lot of fun bowling, golfing, eating good food and just generally hanging out with good friends.

Thursday was at the convention center bright and early to cheer some of our partner team members bowl their double/singles events. Went out to lunch after with the whole group. Back to the hotel for some rest before our Team event that evening at 830. Got a chance to watch forum member ALazySavage and his team bowl their team event as they were on squad just before us.

Team event went better than expected:
Game 1 started with double, 10 pin, 3 pin, 4 bagger, 3-6, strike and a 2 pin in the fill which I missed converting for a very good 235.
Game 2 strike, 2-8 which I picked out the 8 pin from for an open, 6 bagger, 2 pin, 2-8 converted this time and 10 pin in the fill for a nice 234.
Game 3 started out a bit fast 2-5, 2-7, double, smash 8 pin, 3-6, strike, 5 pin, strike, and very slow leaving 1-3-5-6 which I failed to convert for a 193.

235-234-193 = 662
Extremely happy with that considering the very tough oil pattern. Also, made some cash on brackets. :cool: Used my Hyper cell at 2000 grit the entire set.

Friday went for a round of golf with team mates. Great fun, then some lunch and some sleep to prepare for the nights Doubles/Singles events.

Doubles:
Game 1 I started out way too fast leaving a 1-2 and whiffing the conversion, 3-6-9-10(too slow) which I converted, 1-2-4-10(bit too fast) leaving the 1 and 10 pin standing on the failed conversion. Starting to think this was going to be a very poor outing. Composed myself, began to control my speed and started to get some good reaction. 1-5, 4 pin, strike, 2 pin, 3-6, 4 bagger to finish out with only a 189.

Game 2 strike, 10 pin, 3-6, 2 pin, strike, 7 pin, strike, 3 pin, 3 pin, strike, and 7 pin in the fill for a 196 and a clean game!!

Game 3 2 pin, strike, pocket 7-10 split, double, 6-10, 4-7-10, 10 pin, double and then 3-6-9-10 failing to convert for a 186.

189-196-186 = 571, partner had a 583 so we are sitting at 1154 for doubles. Used Hyper Cell for entire set and likely should have changed half way through game 3.

Singles:

Game 1 started with 10 pin, 3-6, strike, 1-2-8-10(converted), double, 2-8(did not convert), strike, 3-6-10 which I left 3 pin standing, strike, 1-3-6-10 leaving 1 pin standing for a lowly 179.

Game 2 3-6-9-10 leaving 9 standing on failed conversion, 2 pin, 4 bagger, 3-6-10, double, 10 pin which I failed to convert for a 213.

Game 3 smash 9 to start, 6 pin, strike, 3-10, 2 pin, 10 pin, double, 2-4-5-8 leaving 5 pin standing, 7 pin, strike to finish out with a 191 and on a high note.

179-213-191 = 583 using Disturbed at 2000 grit all 3 games.

All Events:
662-571-583 = 1816

Very happy with how I handled the tough and flat patterns. Still have work to do, but for now I am content with how I did. Given the tough conditions, this is my highest set at Nationals, will only continue to go higher in future years. :D. Scores should hopefully pay me back my expenses. Should cash on all but team event. Other team members did not fare so well and we are under the low to cash for that event. Not a big gambler with brackets, but won a couple hundred on team event so that will help pay for my trip in addition to any monies won on the main events.

Some stats:
Average 201.78.
First Ball average 9.02
Strikes 47%
Single pin spares 91% (22/24) missed 1 2 pin and 1 10 pin. 2 pin most left with 7, 6 10 pins.
Non split multi pins 55% (12/22)
Splits 50% (2/2)

[Amyers]

That's some great bowling there Vdub. Congrats on a great trip.

[NewToBowling]

Good stuff. Great game on tough pattern

I would be happy with these scores on THS :)

[mc_runner]

Nice! Congrats on cashing :)

[Aslan]

Glad it went well vDub.

I'm hoping to join you in Reno in 2016. El Paso was 3hrs further from here than Reno is. I just gotta figure out what averages they are going to use. Right now I'm sitting at a 180 composite average which I think would be great for entering the Classic division. The problem is next season I don't plan on bowling in the more difficult house. So instead of averaging 191 at House A and 169 at house B...I'll be averaging 191 at House A and ??? at House C. But I can almost guarantee House C won't be as low as House B. So, in other words, if I don't enter the 2016 Open and get to use my scores from THIS season...I'll likely be forced to enter in the open field and then will likely get absolutely kicked around.

The other variable is how high my average in House A will actually go THIS season. It got to 191 after my 689 series, then I pooed the bed with a 500 series and it dropped to 189...but two weeks ago I shot a 605 and then a 600 last week so it's inched back up to 191. If I keep improving...or just holding my own with 600+ series' each week...OR I figure out the lanes in House B and bring that 169 average up into the 170s...I may have to face the fact that I missed my window to compete in the Classified division. And that would be a bummer.

It's a double edged sword...you don't want to spend the money to go to the Open and be horrible...but by the time you improve enough to consider giving it a shot...you're "too good" to bowl against the other average bowlers and then you're looking at bowling against the elite bowlers in the country. Some people treat it like a 5K or a marathon...you do it just to say you did it. But man...that's $400-$1000 of travel, registration, prize pools, lodging, etc...that's a lot of dough to dish out when the chance of me actually performing well enough to cover the costs is virtually 0.001%...much less win the thing.

[vdubtx]

Thanks all.

Aslan, Regardless of what your composite is, they will use whatever is highest average the last 3 years with atleast 21 games. One of our companion team bowlers thought he would be classified and brought a ton of money for brackets thinking he would clean up. They found a league where he was over the cut and used that for him. Needless to say, he kept a lot of that money in his pockets since he was no longer in the classified grouping.

[Aslan]

Aslan, Regardless of what your composite is, they will use whatever is highest average the last 3 years with atleast 21 games. One of our companion team bowlers thought he would be classified and brought a ton of money for brackets thinking he would clean up. They found a league where he was over the cut and used that for him. Needless to say, he kept a lot of that money in his pockets since he was no longer in the classified grouping.

Well, in that case I'm screwed. Because if I enter the Open as a 165-190 bowler and they use 191 as my average...whats the point? I mean, I really want to bowl in the National Bowling Stadium...at least ONCE in my lifetime. But that's an expensive road trip if I already know I'm gonna get destroyed going in. It's bad enough that even despite the 191 season...they'd end up using that adjusted sport average of 172...which also isn't really accurate. I mean, what sense does it make that if I average 166 and 165 in two THS leagues...then average 149 in 2 consecutive seasons on a sport shot...how in the World does that = a 172 average? Because a guy throwing a 149 on sport conditions SHOULD average 173 on a THS??

Seems dumb that they use the highest single season average rather than the composite. I mean, see below;

Season 1 165 * 66 games = 165
Season 2 (166 * 66 games) + (173 (adj.)*24) + (172 (sub) * 12) = 168
Season 3 (162 * 60 games) + (173 (adj.) * 48) = 166

Season 4 (preliminary data) = (169 * 30) + (191 * 33) = 180

So looking at that data from afar....I'd say that's a 162-172 bowler...who when faced with sport conditions is likely to roll a 149. Yet the USBC looks at that data and says, "Oh...he's a 191 average bowler." What!!??? What bat *poo* statistical analysis are they doing that such a blatently obvious data set as that...with really only the 191 as the outlier... = a 191 average??? That's absurd. Is MWhite in charge of my average now? ;) According to my almost flawless algebraic skills...I need to average 171 the rest of the season in my higher average league to get me back down to 180. Hmmm....if only I were a sandbagger... :rolleyes:

[vdubtx]

Them's the rules. Start calling the USBC to get them to change to your way of thinking. At some point, after you talking with them as length, they may change. LOL!!!

The point of going to Open Championships is more about the experience of it. If I went with just the mindset of how much I wanted to win I would bowl horribly. Cashing is just a bonus.

I go for the experience and the fun I have with my team mates along with seeing a different place than my typical bowling centers. But, that's just me.

[Amyers]

Well, in that case I'm screwed. Because if I enter the Open as a 165-190 bowler and they use 191 as my average...whats the point? I mean, I really want to bowl in the National Bowling Stadium...at least ONCE in my lifetime. But that's an expensive road trip if I already know I'm gonna get destroyed going in. It's bad enough that even despite the 191 season...they'd end up using that adjusted sport average of 172...which also isn't really accurate. I mean, what sense does it make that if I average 166 and 165 in two THS leagues...then average 149 in 2 consecutive seasons on a sport shot...how in the World does that = a 172 average? Because a guy throwing a 149 on sport conditions SHOULD average 173 on a THS??

Seems dumb that they use the highest single season average rather than the composite. I mean, see below;

Season 1 165 * 66 games = 165
Season 2 (166 * 66 games) + (173 (adj.)*24) + (172 (sub) * 12) = 168
Season 3 (162 * 60 games) + (173 (adj.) * 48) = 166

Season 4 (preliminary data) = (169 * 30) + (191 * 33) = 180

So looking at that data from afar....I'd say that's a 162-172 bowler...who when faced with sport conditions is likely to roll a 149. Yet the USBC looks at that data and says, "Oh...he's a 191 average bowler." What!!??? What bat *poo* statistical analysis are they doing that such a blatently obvious data set as that...with really only the 191 as the outlier... = a 191 average??? That's absurd. Is MWhite in charge of my average now? ;) According to my almost flawless algebraic skills...I need to average 171 the rest of the season in my higher average league to get me back down to 180. Hmmm....if only I were a sandbagger... :rolleyes:

If your going thinking your going to win money your wasting your time go for the experience and if you win something it's a bonus

[Mike White]

Well, in that case I'm screwed. Because if I enter the Open as a 165-190 bowler and they use 191 as my average...whats the point? I mean, I really want to bowl in the National Bowling Stadium...at least ONCE in my lifetime. But that's an expensive road trip if I already know I'm gonna get destroyed going in. It's bad enough that even despite the 191 season...they'd end up using that adjusted sport average of 172...which also isn't really accurate. I mean, what sense does it make that if I average 166 and 165 in two THS leagues...then average 149 in 2 consecutive seasons on a sport shot...how in the World does that = a 172 average? Because a guy throwing a 149 on sport conditions SHOULD average 173 on a THS??

Seems dumb that they use the highest single season average rather than the composite. I mean, see below;

Season 1 165 * 66 games = 165
Season 2 (166 * 66 games) + (173 (adj.)*24) + (172 (sub) * 12) = 168
Season 3 (162 * 60 games) + (173 (adj.) * 48) = 166

Season 4 (preliminary data) = (169 * 30) + (191 * 33) = 180

So looking at that data from afar....I'd say that's a 162-172 bowler...who when faced with sport conditions is likely to roll a 149. Yet the USBC looks at that data and says, "Oh...he's a 191 average bowler." What!!??? What bat *poo* statistical analysis are they doing that such a blatently obvious data set as that...with really only the 191 as the outlier... = a 191 average??? That's absurd. Is MWhite in charge of my average now? ;) According to my almost flawless algebraic skills...I need to average 171 the rest of the season in my higher average league to get me back down to 180. Hmmm....if only I were a sandbagger... :rolleyes:

If you consider yourself a 162-172 bowler, then why would you consider averaging 171 or so for the rest of the season to be sandbagging?

The problem with the USBC tournament is the border between regular, and classified should be much higher than 175/176.

Back when the best bowlers were 200-210, someone 35 pins behind that would be placed in a separate division, now with people averaging 240+, the 176 bowler is 60+ pins behind.

[vdubtx]

Forgot to mention, that, on our Doubles/Singles squad, the pair next to us had Earon Vollmar on it. If you don't know who he is... http://www.bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622323398

His team was also on the live stream the day before for the team event. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeq9VmHHo8g

Saw them bowl a little bit that day, they were on squad prior to us and looked like they struggled quite a bit. Earon only shot 516 on team pattern. His all event score was 1761.

[Aslan]

If your going thinking your going to win money your wasting your time go for the experience and if you win something it's a bonus
I disagree with that mindset.

I used to run 5Ks a lot. And I ran a 10k once, realized my time in a 10k was not competitive. Same thing with a duathalon...I knew I couldn't be competitive unless I bought a faster bike. I never bothered entering a duathalon or 10k again. I figured I'd build up my endurance, lower my times, and then enter a 10k when I was competitive.

Bowling the USBC Open...obviously I'm not going to put if off until I feel I'm a sure shot to win overall events...hell, I'll never do it if I wait that long. But I also think it's silly to do it (unless it's held < 2 hours from you) if you're a 150-180 house bowler. The Open is sport bowling event. It should attract SPORT bowlers...not casual bowlers. Otherwise it'd be completely legal to have beers and order mozzarella sticks and wear tank tops while bowling the event. If your game isn't at a certain minimal level...your only "experience" is that thud sound when you roll a 137 and everyone snickers and chuckles.

I have a goal written down...I can't remember exactly what it is because I currently am missing the paper I wrote it down on...hope to find that as I move apartments...but it simply has a total series score or a league average or something like that...and until I can achieve that...I don't go to the Open. Just hypothetical, it would say something like "193 composite average for one season AND a 725 series." That gives me something to work towards. And a reward for achieving it. I have little goals like that regarding the USBC Open, the ABT, PBA Regional events, etc... Now I just need to find that notepad!! I doubt my 689 series would be enough to meet any of the goals...but I'm at least "sniffing" some of the targets I set.

But no...I've never been much for the "just have fun" mantra...not since grade school. If you're gonna drop $400-$1000...to travel across two states to bowl in a tournament...you should have at least a "shot" at winning it. VDubtx went, and I'd say...although a long shot...he has the ability to say he had a remote chance of catching fire and winning. So more power to him. Of matter of fact, I've been one of the few voices trying to push him a little more...maybe take that next step to some amateur tournaments or PBA regional events. If ya got the skills...go for it. The body isn't going to hold up forever...and none of us are getting younger. Do you really want to be using a walker at age 75 and wishing you could have went back 30 years and maybe challenged yourself a little more? I don't.


If you consider yourself a 162-172 bowler, then why would you consider averaging 171 or so for the rest of the season to be sandbagging?
I consider bowling beneath my ability level to be sandbagging. And in that house...thanks to their recent attempts to make the easiest shot in Orange County...I am averaging 191. I could probably...believeably average like 164 the rest of the way without it seeming blatent...but let me put it to you this way: Last week in Game 1 I started off with 6 spares in a row...and the guy that runs the strike frame asked me why I was sandbagging. I was CLEAN through 6...but in THAT league....and this will seem strange to Mike who has actually bowled in a league with me...but in THAT league...I'm one of the better bowlers. And they know that...so I'm kinda stuck unless I fake an injury or something. :rolleyes:



The problem with the USBC tournament is the border between regular, and classified should be much higher than 175/176.

Back when the best bowlers were 200-210, someone 35 pins behind that would be placed in a separate division, now with people averaging 240+, the 176 bowler is 60+ pins behind.

It's 180/181. That actually seems fair to me. I think that's generally the "line" between "good" and "average" bowlers...from what I've seen. What I DISAGREE with...and there's no solution to this that will ever happen realistically...but we need consistent conditions. I go bowl in Irvine and the lanes are toughest in Orange County and I average 155 over 9 games. I then go to Arlington and average 181 over 9 games. I then go to Concourse with their completely random, bowled on conditions and average 169. Then I go to AMF Carter where they've intentionally altered the pattern to make it easier and attract more league bowlers...and I average 191. So what is my true average? The composite is probably the closest...but the USBC doesn't use composite for the Open...it uses and one individual season in the last 3 years...

...moral to the story...if ya want an advantage at the Open...you better not ever bowl in a center that has an easy shot. Find the hardest centers in your area and hope that you do as bad as possible...because if you so much as join ONE league in an easier house...you're screwed.

I would like to know "why" they don't use the composite. They are the organization that calculates the composite...seems like they should use it...but I guess maybe VDub is right and I should send them the question.

Either way...I'm still strongly considering going in 2016. I will "probably" be moving from Southern California to Iowa in the next few years...so I want to take as much opportunity as I can to do things out West while they are still within driving distance. Reno's National Bowling Stadium is on the top of that list. And bowling in the new bowling center at Southpoint is also on the list. Maybe even visiting the Kegal/USBC center near San Antonio. Once I move (if I move), those trips become much more expensive. No more going to Vegas 3-5 times a year to bowl. :(

[vdubtx]

There isn't a kegel center in Texas and the USBC ITRC is in Arlington, TX. Have been to the ITRC several times.

[mc_runner]

Aslan, for what it's worth I'm in a similar position as you... not quite the competitive 220+ average, no "real" chance of winning. I'm not going this year, or probably next, until I am a consistent 210+ average, and get a bunch more experience on sport patterns. Ideally a couple of NEBA tournaments as well. As it is I've probably got a total of 20 games on them in small tournaments I've done. The trick is just working until we can get better than the 180/190/200/205 whatever average we're at so we get into a good spot mentally going.

With that said, the first time I go (and right now I'm eyeing 2017) I do not expect to necessarily be competitive right out of the gate. The first time is always going to be a little bit humbling, I think. Work to improve the second time, the third time, etc.

[Aslan]

There isn't a kegel center in Texas and the USBC ITRC is in Arlington, TX. Have been to the ITRC several times.

Really? I thought USBC was in San Antonio? Good to know. But yeah…I meant the IRTC. I'd like to go there at least once.

And agree 100% MC_runner...

[Amyers]

I disagree with that mindset.

I used to run 5Ks a lot. And I ran a 10k once, realized my time in a 10k was not competitive. Same thing with a duathalon...I knew I couldn't be competitive unless I bought a faster bike. I never bothered entering a duathalon or 10k again. I figured I'd build up my endurance, lower my times, and then enter a 10k when I was competitive.

Bowling the USBC Open...obviously I'm not going to put if off until I feel I'm a sure shot to win overall events...hell, I'll never do it if I wait that long. But I also think it's silly to do it (unless it's held < 2 hours from you) if you're a 150-180 house bowler. The Open is sport bowling event. It should attract SPORT bowlers...not casual bowlers. Otherwise it'd be completely legal to have beers and order mozzarella sticks and wear tank tops while bowling the event. If your game isn't at a certain minimal level...your only "experience" is that thud sound when you roll a 137 and everyone snickers and chuckles.

I have a goal written down...I can't remember exactly what it is because I currently am missing the paper I wrote it down on...hope to find that as I move apartments...but it simply has a total series score or a league average or something like that...and until I can achieve that...I don't go to the Open. Just hypothetical, it would say something like "193 composite average for one season AND a 725 series." That gives me something to work towards. And a reward for achieving it. I have little goals like that regarding the USBC Open, the ABT, PBA Regional events, etc... Now I just need to find that notepad!! I doubt my 689 series would be enough to meet any of the goals...but I'm at least "sniffing" some of the targets I set.

But no...I've never been much for the "just have fun" mantra...not since grade school. If you're gonna drop $400-$1000...to travel across two states to bowl in a tournament...you should have at least a "shot" at winning it. VDubtx went, and I'd say...although a long shot...he has the ability to say he had a remote chance of catching fire and winning. So more power to him. Of matter of fact, I've been one of the few voices trying to push him a little more...maybe take that next step to some amateur tournaments or PBA regional events. If ya got the skills...go for it. The body isn't going to hold up forever...and none of us are getting younger. Do you really want to be using a walker at age 75 and wishing you could have went back 30 years and maybe challenged yourself a little more? I don't.


I consider bowling beneath my ability level to be sandbagging. And in that house...thanks to their recent attempts to make the easiest shot in Orange County...I am averaging 191. I could probably...believeably average like 164 the rest of the way without it seeming blatent...but let me put it to you this way: Last week in Game 1 I started off with 6 spares in a row...and the guy that runs the strike frame asked me why I was sandbagging. I was CLEAN through 6...but in THAT league....and this will seem strange to Mike who has actually bowled in a league with me...but in THAT league...I'm one of the better bowlers. And they know that...so I'm kinda stuck unless I fake an injury or something. :rolleyes:




It's 180/181. That actually seems fair to me. I think that's generally the "line" between "good" and "average" bowlers...from what I've seen. What I DISAGREE with...and there's no solution to this that will ever happen realistically...but we need consistent conditions. I go bowl in Irvine and the lanes are toughest in Orange County and I average 155 over 9 games. I then go to Arlington and average 181 over 9 games. I then go to Concourse with their completely random, bowled on conditions and average 169. Then I go to AMF Carter where they've intentionally altered the pattern to make it easier and attract more league bowlers...and I average 191. So what is my true average? The composite is probably the closest...but the USBC doesn't use composite for the Open...it uses and one individual season in the last 3 years...

...moral to the story...if ya want an advantage at the Open...you better not ever bowl in a center that has an easy shot. Find the hardest centers in your area and hope that you do as bad as possible...because if you so much as join ONE league in an easier house...you're screwed.

I would like to know "why" they don't use the composite. They are the organization that calculates the composite...seems like they should use it...but I guess maybe VDub is right and I should send them the question.

Either way...I'm still strongly considering going in 2016. I will "probably" be moving from Southern California to Iowa in the next few years...so I want to take as much opportunity as I can to do things out West while they are still within driving distance. Reno's National Bowling Stadium is on the top of that list. And bowling in the new bowling center at Southpoint is also on the list. Maybe even visiting the Kegal/USBC center near San Antonio. Once I move (if I move), those trips become much more expensive. No more going to Vegas 3-5 times a year to bowl. :(

1. Your forgetting the difference between a house shot average and a sport shot average. There is no such thing as a sure thing at the open. There are plenty of 230+ average house hacks who go to the open thinking they've got a shot that don't have a clue and go shoot poor scores and there are very talented bowlers who go and just bowl poorly. It takes a lot of talent and a lot of luck to win all events. Those who have a realistic shot are more like 220-230 sport average bowlers. I'm not sure you or me will ever approach that level your getting close to the point where I start to agree with Ice that it's the gift at that point.

2. 7k+ bowlers go to the open I would say better than 90% know they have no shot they are going to have a good time and enjoy a few days with their teammates.

3. I do agree with you on the expense part. This is the reason why I haven't went to one maybe if we ever have another east coast one. I don't know anyone here (I'm sure there are some) who has attended one since the one in N.Y.

4. You are right on the composite average thing makes more sense to me or at least blend your averages between your leagues over the last 12-24 months.

5. Vdub should definitely enter some regionals.

6. The Kegal Training Center is in Florida also one of my dream places to go

[mc_runner]

Fortunately it does look like they'll be headed back to the East Coast in a few years.

2015 - El Paso, Texas
2016 - Reno, Nev.
2017 - Las Vegas
2018 - Syracuse, N.Y.
2019 - Las Vegas
2020 - Reno, Nev.
2021 - Las Vegas
2022 - TBD
2023 - Reno, Nev.
2024 - Las Vegas
2025 - Baton Rouge, La.
2026 - Reno, Nev.

[vdubtx]

Really? I thought USBC was in San Antonio? Good to know. But yeah…I meant the IRTC. I'd like to go there at least once.

And agree 100% MC_runner...

Nope, it's in Arlington which is in the DFW area. That is where I go to get my practice on the Nationals patterns the last 2 years. They do lessons, but I have not taken one there. They are very expensive, and I am sure for the money are worth it. I prefer to go to Susie Minshew, who is somewhat local as she is a Gold level coach just like the coaches at the ITRC.

[vdubtx]

1. Your forgetting the difference between a house shot average and a sport shot average. There is no such thing as a sure thing at the open. There are plenty of 230+ average house hacks who go to the open thinking they've got a shot that don't have a clue and go shoot poor scores and there are very talented bowlers who go and just bowl poorly. It takes a lot of talent and a lot of luck to win all events. Those who have a realistic shot are more like 220-230 sport average bowlers. I'm not sure you or me will ever approach that level your getting close to the point where I start to agree with Ice that it's the gift at that point.

5. Vdub should definitely enter some regionals.


Very good points on #1. I know some bowlers in my local area that went with 230+ house averages who barely broke 1400 let alone 1500 all events. Perhaps they were too confident that their shots would either carry, or their equipment would make it to the pocket no matter where they placed the ball. Then there are others that average 230 on house, but also bowl regionals who shot in the 1900+ all events range. Those that are used to shooting on sport conditions most of the time are the ones that are doing well out there. Have to be accurate with your shot placement, speed, release, and with your spares.

5. Thanks for the confidence boost thinking I could shoot regionals. I may give a few a shot sometime. Need to get a couple things in my game better in line this next year and go from there. Another lesson or 3 from Susie Minshew and think will be headed in right direction.

[vdubtx]

Fortunately it does look like they'll be headed back to the East Coast in a few years.

2015 - El Paso, Texas
2016 - Reno, Nev.
2017 - Las Vegas
2018 - Syracuse, N.Y.
2019 - Las Vegas
2020 - Reno, Nev.
2021 - Las Vegas
2022 - TBD
2023 - Reno, Nev.
2024 - Las Vegas
2025 - Baton Rouge, La.
2026 - Reno, Nev.

Yep, I am excited to go to Syracuse. Will be making a vacation out of that one. Wife will finally come to Nationals with me in Vegas and also to Syracuse so we can do NYC and Niagara as well. :)

[vdubtx]

Final results including winnings have been posted. Cracked the top 1000 with my All Events score. :cool:

Super happy about how I did in El Paso on the tough conditions.

Made my entry fee plus a bit more, and made money on brackets so I paid for my entire trip with winnings. :D

[Amyers]

Awesome!!!! One of these days I'm going to have to start going. Hope to at least make Syracuse if not Las Vegas.