What Pin placement do you use?

[The KingPin]

With a ball doing different things when you get it drilled a certain way, what pin placement do you get when you buy a ball and why?

[nickcuban]

I have no idea what you are talking about. When I get my new ball (hopefully fri or sat) I'll take a picture of the ball and maybe you or someone else can let me know lol. I'll also take pictures of the hammer and beast.

[Iceman]

Most of my equipment I purchase is minimum 2 - 3" pin - I did try a 5" pin once, and my driller couldn't get that ball to do much based on specs and no matter what we tried, it had zero backend. Either too much roll and roll out early, or too long and no backend. It's in the dumpster.

I usually push my pins above the ring finger for length, then change the surface to get what I want. I carry red, green and grey scuff pads - I always scuff the gamebreaker and use that as my benchmark, then go to red or grey (lightly) on my pearl balls or medium scuff on my solids.

My comfort is longer the better to get out of the typical 10 swing - I try to match the breakpoints of everyone else, I just try to get there at a different angle (usually straighter). When the oil transitions down, I switch to a harder ball and go straighter towards the pocket off the corner.

I have tried the pin at 2 and beneath the ring finger, but it doesn't fit my game, too much roll early and not enough if I miss outside.

I still believe that any ball will work on any condition, but some balls will give you greater room than others. I'm almost wanting to try rubber off the corner - but I would like to have a better weight block for carry then the older rubber balls. I'm sure I could order from japan to get one. lol

[JAnderson]

Pin position is important, but it is only one part of a much larger equation. When we talk about "pin position" we're referring to the distance between the marked PIN on the ball and the bowler's positive axis point (PAP). To define a positive axis point is a topic for another discussion. Where your pin is located in relation to your finger holes means little. It is the PIN to PAP distance that is the most important.

Generally speaking, most bowlers will find an "optimum" pin position based on the bowler's tendencies. For example, I am slightly rev-dominant (meaning I throw the ball too slow for the amount of revs I put on it). As such, my ball tends to hook a little too early. Naturally, I favor longer pins which tend to promote length - the ball will go further before it hooks. Just about all of my stuff is in the 5.5 to 7 inches range.

Bowlers who are more speed dominant (throw the ball too fast for the amount of revs) will favor stronger, shorter pins to help make the ball hook sooner.

I'm a proponent of similar pin position on most balls and making the rest of the changes to how the ball behaves by changing the surface preparation of the ball. However, for tournament bowlers who are going to bowl in a large number of houses, a few pieces with different pins - something that flares as much as possible and something that flares as little as possible - are desirable.

[JAnderson]

Most of my equipment I purchase is minimum 2 - 3" pin - I did try a 5" pin once, and my driller couldn't get that ball to do much based on specs and no matter what we tried, it had zero backend.

That's a shame - the driller didn't know what (s)he was doing.

I think the original post was asking more about pin placement - pin position in relation to the PAP - not "pin out", which is the distance between the marked center of gravity (CG) and the pin.


I usually push my pins above the ring finger for length

Now we're talking about pin placement!

You'll only increase the length if the finger holes and/or thumb holes are deep enough to remove core material and the core is changed in such a fashion that it's rg is changed to be higher. It is a common misconception that placing the pin "above" the line of the fingers automatically produces length. That's not always true.

[Iceman]

Sorry, I should have clarified my answers, I don't go to in detail of the PAP and PIN, I understand they all make a difference.

The ball was a Lane #1 Buzzsaw, I bought it because I didn't have a Lane #1, I'm only missing a Track ball, and I'll have 1 from every "main" manufacturer. With the Pin at 2:00 - I'm rev dominant (not intentional) - but we went with length until I get the speed dominant as most strokers have. It's more of experimenting until I get to where I want to be.

Most of my equipment is drilled for length, I used the Buzzsaw for 10 pins on any condition. rarely miss it - if lanes are dry backends, it did break more - but even with scuff pads, it just rolled to early and rolled out. We tried 3 different drills. I'm not one to redrill equipment, but for the $200 purchase I figured I'd give it a try. We also played around with pitches and spans during this time.

After all that, I found what feels comfortable on me, no strains on hands or fingers and 1/8 reverse pitch to help me come out of ball easily without dropping (Which I still do on lazy nights).

So your stating a 5" PAP can be drilled like any other equipment for length or early rolling? I found a Visionary Executioner on the Net with a 5" Pin (Was specially made) selling for $100 brand new. (Not drilled) The driller is very good at what he does, he knows my games, and when we redrill, the charges are none, I give him a tip for his time.

[JAnderson]

In the hands of an experienced driller (or even just someone who knows how to layout a ball) longer pin-to-cg distances actually give you more drilling options as long as you're not opposed to weight holes. That's because the pin can be placed further from the grip center in any direction while keeping the CG near the grip center.

If you're considering putting the pin in the center of your grip, having a ball with a 5 inch distance between pin and cg may require a bigger weight hole because your CG will be further from the center of the grip (if your pin is the center of your grip, the cg will be 5 inches away).

[kev3inp]

I seem to get most of my pin lengths (between the pin and the cg) in the 2 to 4 inch range. I have no idea what the relationship to my pap is. My balls are laid out with pin under ring finger, pin next to ring finger and pin above ring finger. The only one I have with a weight hole is my Roborule. To give me a general idea of where my pap is could I draw a line between the centers of my bowties and put a spot on the middle of the line? I know you can find it with experimentation with tape position on the surface, but I don't seem to be able to watch the ball when I throw it. I'm trying to stay locked on my target and finish the shot, as I have a tendency to think I've rolled it when the ball is still in my hand. My mind says it's done but it moves faster than my body. Maybe you could help me out with that this summer, j. :)

[Iceman]

In the hands of an experienced driller (or even just someone who knows how to layout a ball) longer pin-to-cg distances actually give you more drilling options as long as you're not opposed to weight holes. That's because the pin can be placed further from the grip center in any direction while keeping the CG near the grip center.

If you're considering putting the pin in the center of your grip, having a ball with a 5 inch distance between pin and cg may require a bigger weight hole because your CG will be further from the center of the grip (if your pin is the center of your grip, the cg will be 5 inches away).

Drilling options? in english please, how would the 5" Pin to CG reflect in my stroker-to-be style. I'm getting closer, but I really don't think I'll ever be where I want to be with it, but I'll always keep trying.

I have heard so many people say how they loved the executioner, and I did find one - just with the 5" pin to CG made me reconsider the purchase. I've heard longer distances limit, but then again, I don't understand them well enough to know who was BS'n me.

[JAnderson]

Drilling options:

Distance between pin and positive axis point (PAP)
Distance between pin and grip center
Location of Mass Bias (MB) in relation to grip center
etc.

Consider wanting a layout that promotes length by having a pin high over the finger bridge, with the pin 5 inches from PAP to pin without a weight hole.

If you have a ball where the Cg is .5 inches from the pin and you place the pin 2 inches above your fingers, your cG is going to be 1.5 inches above your finger holes. You'll need a weight hol.

With a ball where the Cg is 4-5 inches from the pin, you likely won't need a weight hole.

Ditto for a ball with a short PAP to pin distance if you're a bowler with a high track or for a a low-tracker that wants to put their pin on their track.

I really need to photo-shop this for you guys. A picture is really worth a few hundred words in this case.

[Iceman]

Drilling options:

Distance between pin and positive axis point (PAP)
Distance between pin and grip center
Location of Mass Bias (MB) in relation to grip center
etc.

Consider wanting a layout that promotes length by having a pin high over the finger bridge, with the pin 5 inches from PAP to pin without a weight hole.

If you have a ball where the Cg is .5 inches from the pin and you place the pin 2 inches above your fingers, your cG is going to be 1.5 inches above your finger holes. You'll need a weight hol.

With a ball where the Cg is 4-5 inches from the pin, you likely won't need a weight hole.

Ditto for a ball with a short PAP to pin distance if you're a bowler with a high track or for a a low-tracker that wants to put their pin on their track.

I really need to photo-shop this for you guys. A picture is really worth a few hundred words in this case.

Um, Ok, I'll take your word for it. I printed this out and will go ahead and purchase the executioner and go with it. My track as it currently is (mid) not low, but not high either, my goal is high track.

Tonight was a good indication what I have to work on, I stayed behind the ball really well, but the track was still mid to low, but closer then it has been. The carry was not there until the 3rd game, but I never move off of 10 pin leaves, nothing I try seems to work. The leg kick out of the way is the point of my focus now - just get it out of the way, not forceful so it doesn't open my shoulders and make my left foot point right at the end.

Additional Note - Weight holes are for legality?

[JAnderson]

USBC stipulates that a ball may not have more than 1oz finger weight, thumb weight, or side weight and may not have more than 3oz top weight or bottom weight. So if you move the center of gravity too far from your grip center, you run the risk of biasing the weight in the ball in that direction. A weight hole can take weight out of the ball where necessary to bring the ball back to legal standards.

[Iceman]

With a ball doing different things when you get it drilled a certain way, what pin placement do you get when you buy a ball and why?

Honestly, the reason why I get the pin 2-3", my coach told me so. He did talk with our driller prior and they both agreed based on them seeing me bowl for a few months. My coach is helping me change from cranker to stroker, and my driller keeps asking me why I am changing, he thought I rolled the ball decent for my size and avg'd well. I told him why, he just laughed and said the technology is going more hand, and your trying to take it out. I'm just making it harder on myself he further explained, but agreed with the pin placements and distances to get where I want to go.

[ArtVandelay]

This is like reading greek to me. Anyone care to explain the whole "pin placement" in simple terms?

[willard46]

I usually get 2 to 3 or 3 to 4 inch pins depending on if I am drilling the ball pin above or pin below the fingers.

[Iceman]

This is like reading greek to me. Anyone care to explain the whole "pin placement" in simple terms?

I found this article a few days ago after reading things from Janderson, it helped me understand them better. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCK/is_3_22/ai_n6119868