EJ Tacketts release

[NewToBowling]

He has a great "yo-yo" release but that surely can't be good for the elbows long term. Heck, I try doing it free arm without a ball and I can feel the aching in my elbow already :)

We'll see how he holds up 5 years from now. But boy is he able to get insane revs with it.

[foreverincamo]

His only way to survive long-term is to dial his delivery down. It's what Pete Weber did, and it worked out pretty well .

[RobLV1]

I remember back in the early nineties when they said the same thing about Ameletto. Good thing he didn't listen.

[NewToBowling]

I'm not saying he can't. But it is a pretty violent release.

[Aslan]

I just find it frustrating that you see a release like that as well as other releases...where you can tell visually just how much additional effort the bowlers is exerting in the swing...yet every person you talk to at the USBC, pro staffers, bowling writers...they'll all preach about a very smooth, relaxed, effortless release.

Then you say, "what about...(insert name, WRW, Amletto, EJ Tackett, Stu Williams, Belmo, etc, etc, etc,...)?" and they roll their eyes and just say, "well...(insert name) is just a freak of nature. Most players could never be good doing that." Then I watch some dum***** on league night that looks like he's having a seizure every time he gets near the foul line...and he rolls a 279.

Really!!??? I mean, is there actually a RIGHT way to bowl?? Or are we just kidding ourselves and as long as you can get your timing right...your approach can be spinning and jumping and eyes closed 1/2 the time...maybe a flip added in at the end...it's all good??

[Amyers]

I just find it frustrating that you see a release like that as well as other releases...where you can tell visually just how much additional effort the bowlers is exerting in the swing...yet every person you talk to at the USBC, pro staffers, bowling writers...they'll all preach about a very smooth, relaxed, effortless release.

Then you say, "what about...(insert name, WRW, Amletto, EJ Tackett, Stu Williams, Belmo, etc, etc, etc,...)?" and they roll their eyes and just say, "well...(insert name) is just a freak of nature. Most players could never be good doing that." Then I watch some dum***** on league night that looks like he's having a seizure every time he gets near the foul line...and he rolls a 279.

Really!!??? I mean, is there actually a RIGHT way to bowl?? Or are we just kidding ourselves and as long as you can get your timing right...your approach can be spinning and jumping and eyes closed 1/2 the time...maybe a flip added in at the end...it's all good??

On THS as long as you can generate ball speed and revs to match higher the better it all works you can dance up like a ballerina if you want.

[Mike White]

I just find it frustrating that you see a release like that as well as other releases...where you can tell visually just how much additional effort the bowlers is exerting in the swing...yet every person you talk to at the USBC, pro staffers, bowling writers...they'll all preach about a very smooth, relaxed, effortless release.

Then you say, "what about...(insert name, WRW, Amletto, EJ Tackett, Stu Williams, Belmo, etc, etc, etc,...)?" and they roll their eyes and just say, "well...(insert name) is just a freak of nature. Most players could never be good doing that." Then I watch some dum***** on league night that looks like he's having a seizure every time he gets near the foul line...and he rolls a 279.

When they remove the credibility of the sport, high scores come even with the absence of talent.

Part of the problem is, the PBA is used as a showcase for modern equipment, and it's that equipment along with the massive amounts of oil required to keep that equipment under control which undermines the games credibility.

If the PBA wasn't so reliant on ball companies, they could make the game more realistic by limiting the equipment people could use, and therefore reduce the help required from the oil.

[Aslan]

I'm on board. I vote a flat 40ft pattern with only rubber and urethane being allowed.

[Mike White]

I'm on board. I vote a flat 40ft pattern with only rubber and urethane being allowed.

Rubber isn't manufactured anymore, and between rubber and urethane is polyester (aka plastic)

Plastic / Urethane need only about 1/3 of the oil that resin balls need, so you don't need 40 feet of oil.

At one point they experimented with 24 feet of oil on wood lanes, which I thought was quite playable.

That gives you an idea how bad Concourse was even with 40 feet.... way too much friction due to the mass amounts of patched boards not sanded flat.

[Mike White]

He has a great "yo-yo" release but that surely can't be good for the elbows long term. Heck, I try doing it free arm without a ball and I can feel the aching in my elbow already :)

We'll see how he holds up 5 years from now. But boy is he able to get insane revs with it.

He isn't anywhere near as "hercky-jercky" as you make it sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdUN8VVLuEM

[NewToBowling]

I'm on board. I vote a flat 40ft pattern with only rubber and urethane being allowed.

But who is going to watch that. Bowling has a hard enough time getting interest from the casual fans. They want big hooks with power strikes. At least you get that in the PBA today. Can't please everyone.

[Amyers]

But who is going to watch that. Bowling has a hard enough time getting interest from the casual fans. They want big hooks with power strikes. At least you get that in the PBA today. Can't please everyone.

Yes but if the house hack looks just as good at your center what's the point of the PBA Tour? It's not that the PBA guys need that equipment to look great its that it removes the honesty from the game and makes your slightly above average high rev power guy look like he should be on tour when he couldn't compete there at all

[NewToBowling]

Yes but if the house hack looks just as good at your center what's the point of the PBA Tour? It's not that the PBA guys need that equipment to look great its that it removes the honesty from the game and makes your slightly above average high rev power guy look like he should be on tour when he couldn't compete there at all

That's exactly what they want, someone who thinks they are just as good as the pros. That means more people getting involved in the sport buying more balls and playing in more leagues. They would be happy if more and more people started playing competitive bowling.

[rv driver]

He isn't anywhere near as "hercky-jercky" as you make it sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdUN8VVLuEM
What I see in the video is most of the power or "work" coming from his back/shoulder -- not his arm/elbow/wrist.

[rv driver]

But who is going to watch that. Bowling has a hard enough time getting interest from the casual fans. They want big hooks with power strikes. At least you get that in the PBA today. Can't please everyone.
I used to watch that all the time. I'm more a fan of people like Carter, Weber the Elder, Anthony, Roth and Durbin than I am Belmo, Rash, Williams and Barnes. The finesse and precision wow me a lot more than the shenanigans and "revs."

[rv driver]

I'm on board. I vote a flat 40ft pattern with only rubber and urethane being allowed.
And no blocking the lanes!

[RobLV1]

I'm wondering how many of you have actually bowled on a PBA pattern - not a PBA Experience pattern where the lanes aren't double stripped to remove all traces of the prior house shot. The patterns on which these guys routinely bowl are tough, but the bowlers are that good. Power is the name of the game today. Like it or not, the days of the stroker are gone for the foreseeable future. The only reason that Professional Bowling still exists is because of the sponsor dollars from the ball manufacturers. I doubt that they will go back to making rubber bowling balls any time soon.

The next time you hear a high-averaging house hack bragging about how good he is, suggest that he bowl in a PBA Regional event. I have a hunch his bragging will come to a very sudden end.

[NewToBowling]

I used to watch that all the time. I'm more a fan of people like Carter, Weber the Elder, Anthony, Roth and Durbin than I am Belmo, Rash, Williams and Barnes. The finesse and precision wow me a lot more than the shenanigans and "revs."

I have only taken bowling serious Jan of this year. Prior to that I would watch on TV but was kind of an afterthought. The ONLY two bowlers I knew was WRW and PDW. First time I ever heard of Norm Duke, Barnes, Belmo, Rash was four months ago. So yeah I'm a total newbie but I enjoy playing and watching the game now just looking at all the different releases/forms.

[NewToBowling]

I'm wondering how many of you have actually bowled on a PBA pattern - not a PBA Experience pattern where the lanes aren't double stripped to remove all traces of the prior house shot. The patterns on which these guys routinely bowl are tough, but the bowlers are that good. Power is the name of the game today. Like it or not, the days of the stroker are gone for the foreseeable future. The only reason that Professional Bowling still exists is because of the sponsor dollars from the ball manufacturers. I doubt that they will go back to making rubber bowling balls any time soon.

The next time you hear a high-averaging house hack bragging about how good he is, suggest that he bowl in a PBA Regional event. I have a hunch his bragging will come to a very sudden end.

Oh I understand it's very tough. Would be interesting to get house shot "pros" on these PBA patterns.

And yes, the ball manufacturers are the ones spending the money to help fund these events. But it's curious how the announcers never mention the ball mfg, just the name. They will list the arsenal but will NEVER say Storm or Hammer, etc (even though it's blazoned across each bowlers name).

I've never heard Randy Petersen say "PDW is now switching over to the Storm Optimus", he will purposely leave out Storm.

[Mike White]

What I see in the video is most of the power or "work" coming from his back/shoulder -- not his arm/elbow/wrist.

His shoulders turn with the ball motion, not against it,

If any part of his body is working hard, it's his legs.

They are providing the most energy that is in a direction opposite of the ball motion at that moment.

At the pivot step, the leg is pushing the body forward when the ball wants to stay behind.

At the release, the leg is lifting the body up, when the ball wants to go down.

[RobLV1]

Oh I understand it's very tough. Would be interesting to get house shot "pros" on these PBA patterns.

And yes, the ball manufacturers are the ones spending the money to help fund these events. But it's curious how the announcers never mention the ball mfg, just the name. They will list the arsenal but will NEVER say Storm or Hammer, etc (even though it's blazoned across each bowlers name).

I've never heard Randy Petersen say "PDW is now switching over to the Storm Optimus", he will purposely leave out Storm.

It's only been in the past few years that they started even mentioning what balls the bowlers are using. When they say the name of the manufacturer (Storm, Motiv, Ebonite, etc.) it's considered advertising, and manufacturers must pay for advertising. Personally I think that they do a pretty good job of talking about the balls that the bowlers are using as information for the viewers, without giving free advertising to the manufacturers.

[Aslan]

But who is going to watch that. Bowling has a hard enough time getting interest from the casual fans. They want big hooks with power strikes. At least you get that in the PBA today. Can't please everyone.
Then make bowling alleys topless, make the WPBA women wear skimpy maid outfits, and script the event so that there's a guy getting hit with a chair every now and then. I mean, theres LOTS of ways to make bowling into a reality TV spectacle if the goal is ratings over the integrity of the sport.


That's exactly what they want, someone who thinks they are just as good as the pros. That means more people getting involved in the sport buying more balls and playing in more leagues. They would be happy if more and more people started playing competitive bowling.
Well, thats true.


What I see in the video is most of the power or "work" coming from his back/shoulder -- not his arm/elbow/wrist.
What happened to a "quiet shoulder" being the goal???


I used to watch that all the time. I'm more a fan of people like Carter, Weber the Elder, Anthony, Roth and Durbin than I am Belmo, Rash, Williams and Barnes. The finesse and precision wow me a lot more than the shenanigans and "revs."
I love the PBA50. I love watching it on XTraFrame. Best match ever was WRW winning the seniors masters last year. It's not as "gimicky". These are guys that you could envision being the best bowlers at your house...or pro shop owners...or coaches. They seem to give hope to the amateurs that you don't have to loft the gutters and hit the 2-board to be competitive. The regular tour is getting unwatchable. It's all about revs...its all about that next big ball release...and it's harder to find that "personality" that you want to root for because quite frankly many of the guys are ****s.

[NewToBowling]

The top prize at the Masters (golf) was $1.8M or so. The top prize in a bowling major is $50K. That is embarrassing.

Not much incentive to master the craft if that is the top payout. There definitely needs to be some change either at the top or how to sell the game because you aren't going to attract top talent with that lackluster prize money.

[Aslan]

The top prize at the Masters (golf) was $1.8M or so. The top prize in a bowling major is $50K. That is embarrassing.

Not much incentive to master the craft if that is the top payout. There definitely needs to be some change either at the top or how to sell the game because you aren't going to attract top talent with that lackluster prize money.

And the never-ending loop continues...not enough prize money = less interest = less viewers = less advertising $$ = less prize money.

And the wheels keep spinning around and around and around...

Thats why my idea made the most sense. Even though I hate reality TV...it's a medium thats less expensive to produce and it tends to draw the interest of non-bowlers. The fact that it'd be bowling based would bring in the bowling faithful. Now you got all kinds of people, pros and amateurs alike. You got story after story after story. You have underdogs and favorites and unknowns and houeshold names. Life changing amounts of money if you are one of the final 4 bowlers...defeat and nothing to show for it if you don't make it that far. It's scratch...not like the ABT and abta stuff where people can sandbag and bend the rules for the regulars. No favortism given to pro bowlers other than automatic entry into the first year's tournament...then they're on their own.

And you scrap the fantasy league draft non-sense and you get a real league started sponsored by the ball manufacturers. Each ball manufacturer gets one team per brand. Brunswick, Columbia, Ebonite, Hammer, 900Global, Storm, Radical, RotoGrip, DV8, Track, Motiv and any other ball manufacturer that wants to pay the entry fee and sponsor 5 bowlers (per brand). If you have a sponsored team in the league...your balls are able to be thrown in the PBA year long tournament. If not...you can just sit back and enjoy obscurity. 4-man teams with 1 sub per team. Typical rules. A less challenging, standard, USBC pattern to promote scoring and give viewers a taste of what these folks could do in a house league on a THS. Not a ton of prize money early on...but hopefully it will create some brand recognition and brand loyalty. Keep the entry fees high enough that a guy with a garage can't make his own bowling balls and start a team...but not so high that legitimate manufacturers can't afford to take part. It would be nice to see brands like Lane #1, Lord Field, and Seismic as well as a startup like Pyramid have a chance to be regonized.

PBA50 and WPBA I'd probably leave as is. They'd all be eligible for the year-long tournament of course...but I'd probably keep those two leagues alive so not to risk losing women and seniors and to continue to try to grow those two demographics.

Radical approach...but otherwise...continuous loop of bowling continuing to decline while we all complain about it's decline. Neverending.

The challenge is access to a real audience. Putting that concept on the 4 major networks isn't going to happen. They need to see ratings before they'll start bumping college football, Nascar, and golf. And debuting on a lesser network with less viewers, like a Hulu or a Netflix or some low level ESPN channel that you have to buy a special package to get is likely a kiss of death. That means you either need NBCSports, FoxSports, CBSports, or ESPN. One of them would have to agree to provide the production/access in exchange for a cut of the advertising. That puts you up against poker, college sports, soccer, and ice hockey. That means you need a "rich benfactor" to front the prize money in the $10 million range...then split the advertising 50/50 with the network. The benefactor will never recoup his/her initial investment unless the concept catches on and can move to one of the 4 major networks. Instead, the hope would be to gain enough interest that more and bigger advertisers gain interest...then you got a shot of at least breaking even each year.

And the USBC and PBA Players would have to agree...which they probably wouldn't. The players didn't like when the league went away from the exempt tour (where once you were on the tour...you were pretty much on the tour for good). Now they'd be asked to completely give up on the tour concept in favor of a year-long reality TV event/format. If they lose early...they'd have nothing. Hopefully they also own a pro shop or something else to have some type of income while they wait for next year's tournament to start. And the USBC might not like the idea as it would be somewhat competing with their USBC Open format. While I think it would help the USBC membership, some would argue that it would reduce the USBC Open to almost the N.I.T. level (from college basketball) where some of the bowlers that would usually draw interest bowling in the Open would be bowling in the year-long PBA event.

So we just keep doing what we've been doing and hoping that "someday" it'll just suddenly turn around on it's own.

[NewToBowling]

The biggest challenge is bowling is viewed as more of an activity than a sport. Most people bowl for social aspect and to party/drink, not to actually get good at it or learn how to play lanes, etc. There are no physical limitations. You can be short, tall, fat, drunk and still have fun at it and put up a reasonable score.

And when they see Belmonte/Rash chucking the ball down the lanes like how they do at their local alley it gets into their head that they can do the same thing and beat them. And to an extent they are right. On any given day an above average local player can (though not likely) beat any of these pros. It's not like other sports where you honestly do not stand a chance (pro football, basketball, hockey, etc)