16# Vs 15#

[LyalC52]

Which do you throw and why?

When I got back in to bowling a few months ago I order a 16# HyRoad and have been averaging over 200 lately.
I still have the mentality form the 90's that max weight for max effect on the pins.
I have a tweener style, and can pipe the outside when needed.

Most of the guys 30 and up are throwing 16# balls. I see a lot of younger guys with 15# and 14#, but they are also trying start fires with their rev rates.

[bubba809]

I responded to you in another thread about the same issue. I came down from 15# to 14# and my average came up 13 points. I am not trying to "start fires" or anything. I found a lot more control any accuracy at this weight. I initially did this due to carpal tunnel surgery and was worried about the weight of the ball. After my surgery (a couple months after), I decided to throw my 15 Lb to see if I could handle it. I had no pain or any changes in my release. I threw the same and averaged the same. But I decided to go and stick with my newly drilled 14# ball. Sure I might of gained a little bit of speed, but that is not why I bought it. Again, the control and accuracy that i gained from dropping to a 14 Lb ball was noticeably better. I have an increased entry angle and convert way more spares.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I have thrown 16 lb equipment for 35 years and will until it creates issues with my physical game. I still think if you can throw 16lb equipment and not suffer from the physical side of the game you are better off results wise. The biggest reason why you see most league players using 15lb because it has trickled down from the pba. But, the main reason those guys went down in weight is trying to create more deflection by using the lighter equipment. Still, there are many out there that use 16lb including chris barnes and norm duke. Chris barnes has some definite thoughts about ball roll differences. It just dumfounds me to see some guys with low-medium rev rates using lighter weights than they can and obviously losing carry.

[LyalC52]

I would never fault anyone for dropping down for physical reasons.
Bowling should be fun, beating up your body is not fun.

[Amyers]

The differences here are mostly in peoples heads. In all reality most 16 lbs. balls aren't really 16 lbs. after drilling most 15 lbs. balls aren't really 15 after drilling. I've bowled with both 16 and 15. my 16's usually ended up 15lbs 12-14 ounces my 15lbs ended up 15lbs 2-4 ounces so we really are talking about 10 ounces in general here. You figure in the differences in speed and angle of entry the differences either way are most likely less than a strike vs. a 9 count once every 10 games or so. The average bowler would gain more from 1 lesson or an hour of practice time then they ever would from the differences in ball weight. Throw what your comfortable with. Leave the rest of it to the math department and practice.

[vdubtx]

About 7 years ago I switched to 15lb from 16. I found that not because of age or anything, but I was able to control the 15lb'er better and that switch got my average headed in the upward direction that it is at today. When I got back into bowling I was 179, the following year and following the switch I was up to 197, and then a big jump into the 2-teens at 217. Stayed at about 217 for 2 years until last year when I started to take it a bit more serious and got my composite up to 225, high average in one league of 231. This year is a repeat and should be right at 224 as a composite. Both of my leagues I am right at 224.

Long winded response to basically say that controlability has been my main reason for dropping weight.

[fortheloveofbowling]

The differences here are mostly in peoples heads. In all reality most 16 lbs. balls aren't really 16 lbs. after drilling most 15 lbs. balls aren't really 15 after drilling. I've bowled with both 16 and 15. my 16's usually ended up 15lbs 12-14 ounces my 15lbs ended up 15lbs 2-4 ounces so we really are talking about 10 ounces in general here. You figure in the differences in speed and angle of entry the differences either way are most likely less than a strike vs. a 9 count once every 10 games or so. The average bowler would gain more from 1 lesson or an hour of practice time then they ever would from the differences in ball weight. Throw what your comfortable with. Leave the rest of it to the math department and practice.

The voices in my head do tell me to bowl. I'm not sure if they tell me to throw 16 lb though. I will have to listen closer.

[Amyers]

The voices in my head do tell me to bowl. I'm not sure if they tell me to throw 16 lb though. I will have to listen closer.

I was referring to people having it in their heads that there is a noticeable carry difference between 16 and 15 one way or the other not that the voices in your head will tell you which weight to pick. I think we are lucky that the voices in your head only tell you to go bowl though :eek:

[fortheloveofbowling]

About 7 years ago I switched to 15lb from 16. I found that not because of age or anything, but I was able to control the 15lb'er better and that switch got my average headed in the upward direction that it is at today. When I got back into bowling I was 179, the following year and following the switch I was up to 197, and then a big jump into the 2-teens at 217. Stayed at about 217 for 2 years until last year when I started to take it a bit more serious and got my composite up to 225, high average in one league of 231. This year is a repeat and should be right at 224 as a composite. Both of my leagues I am right at 224.

Long winded response to basically say that controlability has been my main reason for dropping weight.

I have heard a few really good bowlers talk about control for the change but mostly it is a carry issue and they are looking for extra deflection. From my standpoint i rarely say i had a bad carry night because there is a reason why i leave 7 pins, 9 pins, flat 10s, ring 10's. There is also a reason for good carry and for me and my game, i know that a lesser weight would result in a less effective roll through the pin deck. This would obviously lead to a hell of a lot more 9 counts than an extra 1 in 10 games.

[ellisr63]

I am not sure where i should be on ball weight... I used to use a semi fingertip 16lb Piranac, with a 14lb Hammer Grenade for a spare ball. I am just starting bowling again after 20+ years and I only have the Hammer 14lb. I am thinking of getting a better ball and moving to a 15lb or 16lb, but i am retired and really can't afford to buy multiple valls to figure it out. How do you decide what weight ball to get drilled?

[vdubtx]

I have heard a few really good bowlers talk about control for the change but mostly it is a carry issue and they are looking for extra deflection. From my standpoint i rarely say i had a bad carry night because there is a reason why i leave 7 pins, 9 pins, flat 10s, ring 10's. There is also a reason for good carry and for me and my game, i know that a lesser weight would result in a less effective roll through the pin deck. This would obviously lead to a hell of a lot more 9 counts than an extra 1 in 10 games.

Definitely not about carry from my perspective. If you can't hit your mark 15 or 30ft down lane consistently from a heavier rock, then you can't hit where you want 60 ft down lane either.

Whatever weight gets your ball into the pocket the most consistently is going to help your carry the most.

[LyalC52]

suggestion:
both of the pro shops near me have a rack of used balls for sale
maybe you could offer a few bucks to throw a few of them

[Amyers]

I have heard a few really good bowlers talk about control for the change but mostly it is a carry issue and they are looking for extra deflection. From my standpoint i rarely say i had a bad carry night because there is a reason why i leave 7 pins, 9 pins, flat 10s, ring 10's. There is also a reason for good carry and for me and my game, i know that a lesser weight would result in a less effective roll through the pin deck. This would obviously lead to a hell of a lot more 9 counts than an extra 1 in 10 games.

You hit the nail on the head there is a reason why you left those pins. That is no different with a 15 lbs. ball. 10oz in weight is not going to realize itself with automatic weird carries on good pocket hit or make it more likely on off pocket hits. I don't really have a dog in this fight. The only reason I switched from 16 to 15 and recently even considered switching to 14 is I suffer from low ball speed which on drier conditions causes me issues with controlling the ball. I decided not to switch as I didn't add enough speed with the 14 to make it worth it to me. In my humble opinion your belief one way or the other probably through added confidence probably makes more difference than the weight of the ball ever will.

[bubba809]

I have heard a few really good bowlers talk about control for the change but mostly it is a carry issue and they are looking for extra deflection. From my standpoint i rarely say i had a bad carry night because there is a reason why i leave 7 pins, 9 pins, flat 10s, ring 10's. There is also a reason for good carry and for me and my game, i know that a lesser weight would result in a less effective roll through the pin deck. This would obviously lead to a hell of a lot more 9 counts than an extra 1 in 10 games.

Funny... when I got my 14 Lb ball and continually increased my average over that two year time span, I went to a pro shop guy I know and asked him to watch the way I know throw now. I asked him the good old standby questions of, I thought a heavier ball will promote better pin carry? I should throw whatever you are physically capable of throwing, it will be better for you in the long run, right?
He knew what my ball use to look like (a heavy 15 LB'er) as I have bowled in league with him. He was convinced what I lost in a the so-called pin carry of a slightly heavier ball, I have gained more accuracy, speed, revs/torque, entry angle and just over all body control. He said it was almost like I never truly had complete control over the ball..but like the ball controlled me. He said my form looked so much better and my release just flowed.

Bottom line: The years 2007-2012 I averaged between 182-185. I used a 15 Lb ball.
I switched to 14 Lb in 2013 and averaged 194. This past year I averaged 197.

I know what the "experts" say about ball weight and what one "should" throw. I say everyone is different and bowl with whatever your comfortable with. I believe there is a sweet spot for every bowler.

[LyalC52]

well said Bubba

[Aslan]

Whatever weight gets your ball into the pocket the most consistently is going to help your carry the most.

Agreed.

I started out with 15#. I switched to 16# over time just mainly because I got some good deals on 16# equipment. I'll be switching to 15# with my next arsenal just to give it a try. I honestly don't see much difference from one to the other...but who knows...I may see more difference than I expect to.

It's hard to judge based on average unless you're a really high level bowler because usually your average goes up over time as you get better. So a person starts with 15#, averages 158, then goes to 14# and averages 167, then 178 the following year...how much of that is just that the person got better...regardless of ball weight???

Studies have been done...opinions vary...this certainly isn't the first or last time this topic has been brought up or will be. I think there's enough data out there to say GENERALLY a 16# ball will carry more ON AVERAGE. I think there's also enough data out there to support that as you move down in weight, your rev rate will increase and that can lead to an improved angle into the pocket. That angle change and rev rate increase 'probably' outweighs the carry advantage of 16#.

But like VDub said...whatever you can control and get into the pocket is going to carry the best. One thing I don't like about 16# is it's a lot harder to get that 300+ rpm rev rate with heavier balls. One thing I LIKE about 16lb equipment is I'm less likely to loft it or hold onto it too long. When I've tried 14# I find I have a tendency to THROW it about 20ft or just way too fast.

But, we'll see. Nothing like actually experimenting with it to come to a conclusion. We debated endlessly about ball drilling effects and finally I just took two identical balls and tested it. And while those that still defend drilling layouts as being amazingly significant will poke multiple holes in my study (some valid, others questionable)...the bottom line is I tried it, I tested it, I got results. And for ME...that was the result. When I switch to 15#s...maybe I see a huge rev rate improvement. Maybe I see better carry via deflection. Maybe not. Maybe that increased rev rate makes the shot harder to control and get to the pocket. Maybe that increased deflection ISN'T a good thing. Sometimes deflection is a BAD thing...especially when I ruin a 9-in-a-row by leaving a stone 8 in the 5th because the damn ball deflects just a bit too much.

[J Anderson]

I am not sure where i should be on ball weight... I used to use a semi fingertip 16lb Piranac, with a 14lb Hammer Grenade for a spare ball. I am just starting bowling again after 20+ years and I only have the Hammer 14lb. I am thinking of getting a better ball and moving to a 15lb or 16lb, but i am retired and really can't afford to buy multiple valls to figure it out. How do you decide what weight ball to get drilled?

A good proshop operator will be able to tell you how heavy a ball you should be able to throw.
Some proshops have a limited number of demo balls. I'm not sure if the demo balls are in different weights or if they're all 15#. If they come in different weights that would give you a chance to see for yourself which weight you should use.

[ellisr63]

How do you know what speed you should be throwing the ball?

[RobLV1]

I still remember when I made the change about 10 years ago (from 16# to 15#). Try throwing ten games with the sixteen one day, and ten games with the fifteen another day. There's really not much difference for the first few games, but by game eight of ten you sure are happy to be using the lighter ball. I've never heard anyone with the exception of a very few elite professionals even hint that there is a loss of carry using 15 lb. equipment. Most people who refuse to change do so because they've always used 16# and they're NOT ABOUT TO CHANGE NOW! LOL

[Tony]

It was about 8 or 9 years ago I switched from 16 to 15 and I've never regretted it, in fact I seriously considered going down to 14 with the last couple of balls I got this season.

[bubba809]

It's hard to judge based on average unless you're a really high level bowler because usually your average goes up over time as you get better. So a person starts with 15#, averages 158, then goes to 14# and averages 167, then 178 the following year...how much of that is just that the person got better...regardless of ball weight???

Normally I would agree with this, but I have been in my particular league for 24 years now. Sure when I joined I was a 150's bowler and got better over the years. I am saying in my case, I was stuck on an average in the mid to upper 170's/low-mid 180's for almost 14 years. I, like you Aslan, thought I was destined to bowl this avg for life. I then dropped my ball weight a pound in a half and shot up to a 194 then 197. To me that is dramatic. Plus the fact that some very good bowlers have noticed how much better my form and ball rotation is now. I "feel" better when I throw the ball. That trickles down to just about everything in my game. I never claimed to be a "vdub" or "mwhite", I just know that I worked on my game for years and couldn't get over the hump into the 190's.

To me, this is not me just improving over time. People are sometimes scared to try new things and have lighter balls as a "BAD THING FOR BOWLING" etched in their brain. That's cool. Keep throwing that 16 Lb equipment and hopefully the coaching lessons will make up the difference.


**By the way, not to pi*s off the heavy ball weight enthusiasts even more, but my ball(s) actually weighs 13 Lbs 14 oz after drilling.

[bubba809]

It was about 8 or 9 years ago I switched from 16 to 15 and I've never regretted it, in fact I seriously considered going down to 14 with the last couple of balls I got this season.

Do it Tony. It certainly will not hurt to try this out for yourself.

[NewToBowling]

**By the way, not to pi*s off the heavy ball weight enthusiasts even more, but my ball(s) actually weighs 13 Lbs 14 oz after drilling.

Finally weighed my ball the other day with a digital scale at home. Comes out to 14 lbs 1 oz

[Aslan]

Most people who refuse to change do so because they've always used 16# and they're NOT ABOUT TO CHANGE NOW! LOL
I already know your answer to this statement/question…but I think the above comment, while it has definite validity especially in a curmudgeon dominated sport like bowling, doesn't take into account that 30 years ago if there was an internet and if there was a bowling board, the "experts" would be united in their belief that 16# balls carried better.

The belief has changed over time and I feel it's now a reverse scenario where all the experts tout 15#. So do we believe the experts now or then? Are egss good for us or bad for us? Whats worse for us: gluten, saturated fat, carbohydrates, fructose?

Opinions vary…and I bet Rob will say they've changed in bowling due to modern equipment (vs 30 years ago)…BUT…thats why we test things. Thats why there's a bowling robot arm. We have a hypothesis…we attempt to prove that hypothesis false. We generate data and we evaluate that data. The 'data' that has been generated over the past 30 years has shown the entry angle improvement of lighter balls is preferable to the carry advantage of heavier balls. However, if 15 > 16…then is 14 > 15? Is 13 > 14? Etc..? I haven't seen much data on that but I gotta think that at some point the deflection will have a negative effect. If that were false…we'd see a LOT more pros throwing 14lb or lighter.

But it's such a complicated topic. Kind of like axis tilt versus axis rotation. There probably is an ideal tilt vs rotation scenario…but it might change based on ball weight or ball speed and certainly all of this can vary versus bowler styles…

…so…throw what ya want…throw what works for ya. I don't think there is an ideal weight for all bowlers.

[Tony]

Do it Tony. It certainly will not hurt to try this out for yourself.

It won't be long, probably the next ball I get will be a 14lb!

[Hammer]

Try this test to see what weight ball you should use. Take a 16#, 15# and 14# fingertip ball and put your fingers in it and then let your arm hang straight down by your side.
Then with your hand behind the ball try and cup your wrist and hold it for 10 seconds. Which weight ball can you do this more easily with? That is the weight you should use.
It all depends on your wrist strength and what kind of condition you are in. Not everyone of the same age can handle the same weight ball. The right weight is the one that you can swing and release with good balance and accuracy. Don't go with the thought that the other folks on your league are throwing 16# balls. It boils down to what you can handle the best.

[Aslan]

I may be throwing too heavy a ball at 16lbs. My upper body strength is good (which is why I used to throw in the 19-20mph range)...and my legs have power...and I'm in decent shape per se. But I've always had small wrists. Big hands, normal forearms, but small wrists.

But again...I'll be going down to 15# soon...and if I see a dramatic improvement...I don't care if RoboArm does a test to finally prove once and for all that 16# carries better (on average)...because if 15# works better for ME...that's what I'm using. I've dabbled with the idea of trying a 14# arsenal as well...just haven't pulled that trigger yet. The downside to going from 16# to 15# is I'll have about 6 bowling balls, 5 undrilled, that I'll have to try and find a home for...and nobody really wants 16# equipment anymore. I could probably sell the RG Defiant Edge for what I paid for it because RotoGrip is a fairly popular brand and that was a popular ball...but the rest of them I'd have to take a loss on...probably offer them to local pro shops for $35/piece in store credit or $60 shipped to buyers on Ebay.

[Tony]

Do it Tony. It certainly will not hurt to try this out for yourself.

Guess I will be giving it a try, I won the DV8 Diva ball and I ordered it in a 14lb, will give me a chance to see what a 14 lb pink/purple ball can do !

[Tony]

I'll have about 6 bowling balls, 5 undrilled, that I'll have to try and find a home for...and nobody really wants 16# equipment anymore. I could probably sell the RG Defiant Edge for what I paid for it because RotoGrip is a fairly popular brand and that was a popular ball...but the rest of them I'd have to take a loss on...probably offer them to local pro shops for $35/piece in store credit or $60 shipped to buyers on Ebay.

For that price hopefully you can get rid of them pretty easily.

[fortheloveofbowling]

I may be throwing too heavy a ball at 16lbs. My upper body strength is good (which is why I used to throw in the 19-20mph range)...and my legs have power...and I'm in decent shape per se. But I've always had small wrists. Big hands, normal forearms, but small wrists.

But again...I'll be going down to 15# soon...and if I see a dramatic improvement...I don't care if RoboArm does a test to finally prove once and for all that 16# carries better (on average)...because if 15# works better for ME...that's what I'm using. I've dabbled with the idea of trying a 14# arsenal as well...just haven't pulled that trigger yet. The downside to going from 16# to 15# is I'll have about 6 bowling balls, 5 undrilled, that I'll have to try and find a home for...and nobody really wants 16# equipment anymore. I could probably sell the RG Defiant Edge for what I paid for it because RotoGrip is a fairly popular brand and that was a popular ball...but the rest of them I'd have to take a loss on...probably offer them to local pro shops for $35/piece in store credit or $60 shipped to buyers on Ebay.

What do you have undrilled in 16lb? If you decide to sell i might be interested in some of them.

[Aslan]

What do you have undrilled in 16lb? If you decide to sell i might be interested in some of them.

Ummm….Defiant Edge, Warning Sign, Track 300A, Track 706A, Radical Reaxx Pearl, Ebonite Innovate, DV8 Ruckus.

But they aren't for sale just yet.