Asymmetric Balls vs Symmetric Balls

[bobforsaken]

I have been bowling with Symmetric balls exclusively for the last year. I recently received my first Asymmetric ball, the Thug Unruly. I've noticed that hits that aren't quite high flush really carry a lot better than balls I've used previously. I've had a lot more mixing strikes. However, I've noticed the ball really responds differently depending on Axis Rotation. I've heard that Asymmetric balls can really be finicky with your release. I've heard the phrase a few times "they can really make you look good or make you look bad".

I've noticed that if I purposely reduce my axis rotation the ball goes from a very aggressive move in the back end to almost nothing. With my other balls staying behind the ball does reduce the backend reaction and may even reduce the overall hook a bit, but not to the same degree.

Is this the nature of the Asymmetric balls, and I should just accept that they are not as versatile but really excel their role? Is there something I'm missing? What would be the best niche for an asymmetric ball? (Playing deeper with more swing or playing a tighter line?)

Bonus question. I'm playing around with Surface on the Unruly. Its OOB 2000 was great for the first couple of weeks. I was averaging 25 pins over my last established average, and I was finally getting to the point that getting over 200 was expected, not an achievement. This past Monday I was a 10 pin leaving machine even though I had refreshed the surface to 2000 a few days prior. Is there a difference between a factory 2000 finish vs what I can do with an Abralon pad? I've tried as an experiment last night to bring the surface to 4000 and then add 1500 polish. The ball was just as good (it seemed) at reading the oil and had a lot more pop in the back. I didn't roll it well in practice but I wasn't leaving a lot of 10 pins on my good shots.

[Amyers]

I'm no expert on this I own one asymmetric ball but I've found that the asymmetric balls seem to compound whatever I do with it. If I'm up the back of the ball with either type they tend to roll longer and break harder farther down lane, if I'm more around the side of the ball they tend to break earlier with more of an sweep motion. This reaction is the same between both types of balls but I do believe it is much more pronounced with the asymmetric balls I also believe That my asymmetric ball tend to hit much better when I'm up the back of it.

On your Bonus question the Thug Unruly actually has a 500/2000 factory finish on it not just 2000. 30 seconds at 500 then 10-15 seconds at 2000 on a ball spinner. I'm not a big fan of resurfacing balls by hand if you need to refresh one between resurfaces or adjust your surface to fit the shot that night hand adjustments are great but it is no where near the same thing as finishing on a ball spinner.

[bowl1820]

I've heard the phrase a few times "they can really make you look good or make you look bad".

I heard it said once that the best fighter planes are the ones that are slightly out of control.

Asymmetric balls are like fighter planes, they are a little harder to control.


Is there a difference between a factory 2000 finish vs what I can do with an Abralon pad?.

Yes, You can't replicate a O.O.B. exactly with a home spinner you can only get close.

[bobforsaken]

I'm no expert on this I own one asymmetric ball but I've found that the asymmetric balls seem to compound whatever I do with it. If I'm up the back of the ball with either type they tend to roll longer and break harder farther down lane, if I'm more around the side of the ball they tend to break earlier with more of an sweep motion. This reaction is the same between both types of balls but I do believe it is much more pronounced with the asymmetric balls I also believe That my asymmetric ball tend to hit much better when I'm up the back of it.

On your Bonus question the Thug Unruly actually has a 500/2000 factory finish on it not just 2000. 30 seconds at 500 then 10-15 seconds at 2000 on a ball spinner. I'm not a big fan of resurfacing balls by hand if you need to refresh one between resurfaces or adjust your surface to fit the shot that night hand adjustments are great but it is no where near the same thing as finishing on a ball spinner.

Thanks AMyers. I always appreciate your feedback. Interesting though, I find just the opposite in terms of axis rotation and the skid length/shape. The more up the back I am the earlier and more sweeping the motion. The more I am on the outside (more AOR) the longer it skids and more angular a reaction I get.

Looks like I'm putting a ball spinner on my Father's day wishlist. :)

[Amyers]

Thanks AMyers. I always appreciate your feedback. Interesting though, I find just the opposite in terms of axis rotation and the skid length/shape. The more up the back I am the earlier and more sweeping the motion. The more I am on the outside (more AOR) the longer it skids and more angular a reaction I get.

Looks like I'm putting a ball spinner on my Father's day wishlist. :)

I've never really talked about it with anyone but your not the first one to note that difference. I think it is one of two things with me when I play up the back of the ball I have much less loft and it tends to move my track higher on the bowling ball maybe I just get less revs I do know that my ball speed increases when I'm more up the back of the ball. I've wondered before why I tend to get the opposite reaction that most bowlers do to that maybe has something to do with my axis tilt. I tend to have a low tract but less low with the up the back release.

[Aslan]

Yeah. My assymetric balls have been hard to use. When they hit the pocket, it looks good...but any variation in approach/release seems amplified. And it's not just approach/release...it's hard for us older guys that still play up and in to use those cores because when you're out in the dry...and it's sometimes dirtier out there...makes the ball jump around more. And surface has also been issue. My Encounter that is polished is usable...but the surfaced/sanded one is almost worthless. It grabs way too early...even sanded to 2000 abralon...and then just flops into the pocket with almost no angle. I think assymetric balls are designed for a polished surface...and adding a lot of surface is almost like creating a situation where you nullify the core with the surface. :eek:

[Amyers]

Yeah. My assymetric balls have been hard to use. When they hit the pocket, it looks good...but any variation in approach/release seems amplified. And it's not just approach/release...it's hard for us older guys that still play up and in to use those cores because when you're out in the dry...and it's sometimes dirtier out there...makes the ball jump around more. And surface has also been issue. My Encounter that is polished is usable...but the surfaced/sanded one is almost worthless. It grabs way too early...even sanded to 2000 abralon...and then just flops into the pocket with almost no angle. I think assymetric balls are designed for a polished surface...and adding a lot of surface is almost like creating a situation where you nullify the core with the surface. :eek:

Take an moderately aggressive ball put a aggressive finish on it then throw it on the driest part of the lane and it doesn't work? :rolleyes:

[Aslan]

Take an moderately aggressive ball put a aggressive finish on it then throw it on the driest part of the lane and it doesn't work? :rolleyes:

But...you have to remember that when modern bowling guys like Rob are talking about playing inside, increasing angle, and breakpoint style bowling in general...those require a rev rate closer to 300 or a speed closer 10mph...or some combination of the 2. At 16mph, with a 260 rev rate...I miss right every time if I aim for the standard Rule of 31 breakpoint. Even with a stronger core ball...stronger cover stock ball...etc.. The revs drive the motion once it exits the oil...no revs = little motion.

So for rev challenged guys like myself...I have to rely on playing a line that gets me to the pocket and trying to create as much angle as I can. And yes, improving rev rate is on the agenda...but that's something that takes time if you're going to do it the "right" way.

[Amyers]

But...you have to remember that when modern bowling guys like Rob are talking about playing inside, increasing angle, and breakpoint style bowling in general...those require a rev rate closer to 300 or a speed closer 10mph...or some combination of the 2. At 16mph, with a 260 rev rate...I miss right every time if I aim for the standard Rule of 31 breakpoint. Even with a stronger core ball...stronger cover stock ball...etc.. The revs drive the motion once it exits the oil...no revs = little motion.

So for rev challenged guys like myself...I have to rely on playing a line that gets me to the pocket and trying to create as much angle as I can. And yes, improving rev rate is on the agenda...but that's something that takes time if you're going to do it the "right" way.

Oh I understand why you play where you do it's just that guys who throw 16 mph with 250 rev rates probably shouldn't have aggressive ball /aggressive surface in there bag unless they are bowling on badger or some really long heavy stuff.

[Tony]

I got my first asymmetric ball earlier this year (Hyper Cell Skid) and I have noticed with my use that if I stay slow on my approach and stay behind the ball I an more likely to get a good reaction, have larger margin of error and the ball comes back hard when it gets to the dry. When I come more around the side it seems like it skids past the break point, I have no margin for error and when the ball reaches the pocket, if it does, it hits like a marshmallow and I leave all sorts of crazy splits.

[foreverincamo]

My personal experience between asymmetric and symmetric is that a symmetric core ball plays well when thrown " down and in " or just a slight angle to the right before turning left. But if I need to thrown the ball right 10 boards before it reacts, then turns left, I use my asymmetric equipment.
My asymmetric equipment tends to go too long when going with the grain as opposed to a crossing shot. I can get any ball tothe pocket . The game is all about carry.

[bobforsaken]

My personal experience between asymmetric and symmetric is that a symmetric core ball plays well when thrown " down and in " or just a slight angle to the right before turning left. But if I need to thrown the ball right 10 boards before it reacts, then turns left, I use my asymmetric equipment.
My asymmetric equipment tends to go too long when going with the grain as opposed to a crossing shot. I can get any ball tothe pocket . The game is all about carry.

That is pretty much the experience I had last night. I played something like 15 games on the same pair. Naturally I got to try different lines as the shot dried up. I was using a Polished Optimus, Polished Thug Unruly(experimenting), and 2000 Grit finish on a Hyroad (again experimenting). Early when I was playing straighter outside of the 10 board with maybe a 2 board swing the Optimus was fantastic. Unruly was OK, but when I play that straight I like to keep my Axis Rotation down and really come up the back and the Reaction with the Unruly wasn't very forgiving. By the end I had put the Optimus away and had moved deeper. I was standing 23 and throwing to 13 with the Unruly and Shot a 233. The hyroad forced me to play 22 to 9 to get back to the pocket with carry and I had zero miss room. (Plus I suck at playing steeper angles) I ended up with a 147. I was playing both balls at the same time as two separate strings. It just shows how the right ball and right line really makes all the difference.