Energy storage of bowling ball

[NewToBowling]

Ok, help me out a bit here.

Balls are rated for dry, medium, heavy oil conditions.

Let's take for an example a medium-heavy oil ball and roll it down a dry lane. As far as energy retention it will lose most of it's energy before it ever hits the pins correct? This is due to the more aggressive and porous coverstock sucking up all the energy?

Counter that with a dry ball on same dry lane conditions. Same bowler throwing same speed but the dry lane ball should impact the pins harder due to more stored energy storage?

[RobLV1]

Before I start, let me state that this is an over-simplification to help you to understand what is happening as your ball goes down the lane.

The ball goes through five phases as it makes it's way down the lane: slide, hook, hook-out, roll, and roll-out. The ball is at its maximum energy as it gets into the roll phase, and starts to lose energy as it begins to roll out. Conversely, the ball must stop hooking before it can roll, so if it is still hooking when it gets to the pins, it has not yet achieved its maximum energy. It's your job to make sure that the ball gets to that all-important roll phase at just the right time for maximum energy transfer to the pins. The factors that are involved are the speed at which you throw your shot, the relationship between your speed and rev rate, the friction created between the surface of the ball and the surface of the lane, and the amount of resistance supplied by the core of the ball to hinder or encourage the ball to get into the roll phase.

The complexity of this seemingly simple process is the reason that ratings for dry, medium, and heavy oil conditions are so often misleading. A house condition that uses a heavy volume of oil, may concentrate that volume in the middle, leaving the outside part of the lane with a lot of friction. If you play the outside part of the lane with a ball that is too aggressive, the ball will roll out and lose energy. If you play the inside part of the lane with a ball that is not aggressive enough, the ball may never get into the roll phase and rob you of maximum energy that way. The most important things that you can do to improve your ball reaction, are to start to identify the three main phases (slide, hook, and roll), and watch your ball as it exits the pin deck to determine whether it is hitting with maximum energy (ball exits between the eight pin and the nine pin), losing energy (ball exits toward the outside part of the lane - toward the nine pin for a right-handed bowler), or not reaching maximum energy (ball exits toward the eight pin for a right-handed bowler).

[NewToBowling]

That actually makes sense. A lane with burnt up oil in the heads will make the ball not skid enough and thus start rolling too early and losing energy before hitting the pins. It's a fine balance with release, speed, revs, ball, and lane conditions so that the ball is at the roll out phase right before it hits the pins

[foreverincamo]

Burned up heads is the reason some pros loft the ball out past the arrows. Ball can't hook in the air.

[Aslan]

What I don't understand is…if you're missing right…we KNOW you can add surface and make a ball hook earlier. But adding that surface also makes the ball enter the hook phase earlier and lose energy earlier. I think a lot of bowlers throw a ball with a ton of surface…and it makes it back to the pocket…but with no energy. Then they "ball down" and thow a ball that skids longer…but can't get back to the pocket because it stops skidding too late.

Just seems like if you have a high rev rate…then you can't use surface. But if you have a low rev rate…there's no sense in using surface because even though it gets your ball back to the pocket…the ball has no energy left.

Confusing topic.

[RobLV1]

Surface is only one piece of the puzzle. I really hate the concept of balling down. It implies that one ball hooks more than another ball when, in fact, one ball just hooks earlier than another ball. What you are talking about is getting a ball to the pocket. As you become more experienced, you will see that once you can play any part of the lane that's required, getting to the pocket becomes less and less of an issue while carrying the corners becomes more and more of an issue.

Unfortunately, you can't make rules for everything; what works one week, doesn't work the next. It's all about matching up to a particular lane on a particular night and staying ahead of the moves. The better you get at it, the higher your average goes.

[Amyers]

What I don't understand is…if you're missing right…we KNOW you can add surface and make a ball hook earlier. But adding that surface also makes the ball enter the hook phase earlier and lose energy earlier. I think a lot of bowlers throw a ball with a ton of surface…and it makes it back to the pocket…but with no energy. Then they "ball down" and thow a ball that skids longer…but can't get back to the pocket because it stops skidding too late.

Just seems like if you have a high rev rate…then you can't use surface. But if you have a low rev rate…there's no sense in using surface because even though it gets your ball back to the pocket…the ball has no energy left.

Confusing topic.

If you are balanced with additional revs you also have additional ball speed which will allow the ball to skid farther before it starts to hook allowing you throw more surfaced equipment. It all depends on ball speed, rev rate, where your playing on the lane, and surface.

A ball with lots of surface thrown and low to moderate speed thrown down the first arrow (dry area)= Dead on Arrival

A ball with little surface thrown at a high rate of speed on an inside line (higher oil) = a dart that never moves

Everything has to be balanced the proper amount of surface thrown on the correct part of the lane at the proper speed and revs for the conditions your playing on.

[ChuckR]

If you are balanced with additional revs you also have additional ball speed which will allow the ball to skid farther before it starts to hook allowing you throw more surfaced equipment. It all depends on ball speed, rev rate, where your playing on the lane, and surface.

A ball with lots of surface thrown and low to moderate speed thrown down the first arrow (dry area)= Dead on Arrival

A ball with little surface thrown at a high rate of speed on an inside line (higher oil) = a dart that never moves

Everything has to be balanced the proper amount of surface thrown on the correct part of the lane at the proper speed and revs for the conditions your playing on.

When I started back 5 years ago, I worked on timing and 2 releases. Until I was comfortable that I could repeat these I KNEW there were to many variables to increase my average. Consistently throwing the same and seeing the results allows movement of the line or even changing balls. Seeing players change balls and lines at the same time does not give them improvement, only more frustration. KISS, Keep It Similar Stupid.

[NewToBowling]

So when manufacturers designate a ball heavy, medium, or dry oil ball are they specifically referring to the coverstock only. In the sense that a heavy oil ball is more porous and will read the lanes earlier and hook earlier and vice versa with dry ball

Or is still a mix of coverstock, RG, core, etc

[Amyers]

To some extent it is a mix. More towards cover stock and surface you don't see a lot of light oil balls with super powerful cores if there are some out there I don't know what they are. If you had a real strong core in a light oil ball the cover would need to be very weak.

[Amyers]

When I started back 5 years ago, I worked on timing and 2 releases. Until I was comfortable that I could repeat these I KNEW there were to many variables to increase my average. Consistently throwing the same and seeing the results allows movement of the line or even changing balls. Seeing players change balls and lines at the same time does not give them improvement, only more frustration. KISS, Keep It Similar Stupid.

Chuck I'm not sure what you are getting at here? This was an example of things not to do and common problems. I know lots of players who change lines with different balls who are very successful with it also. Not a big fan of trying to stand in the same spot all night and just change balls. If it works for you go for it but generally leads to very little success for me.

[RobLV1]

So when manufacturers designate a ball heavy, medium, or dry oil ball are they specifically referring to the coverstock only. In the sense that a heavy oil ball is more porous and will read the lanes earlier and hook earlier and vice versa with dry ball

Or is still a mix of coverstock, RG, core, etc

When manufacturers designate a ball heavy, medium, or light oil ball they are referring to all of the components: cover material, core, and surface, hopefully, or they may just perceive that they have a space in their product line and arbitrarily stick a ball in to fill that hole. They are counting on the fact that most bowlers don't understand ball motion, nor oil patterns for that matter.

[Mike White]

Ok, help me out a bit here.

Balls are rated for dry, medium, heavy oil conditions.

Let's take for an example a medium-heavy oil ball and roll it down a dry lane. As far as energy retention it will lose most of it's energy before it ever hits the pins correct? This is due to the more aggressive and porous coverstock sucking up all the energy?

Counter that with a dry ball on same dry lane conditions. Same bowler throwing same speed but the dry lane ball should impact the pins harder due to more stored energy storage?

Energy Retention or loss is a myth.

The ball has the same amount of energy in it the moment you let it go, as it does when it hits the pins, (minus a little due to the noise it makes, and heat it generates)

What you are calling energy storage, is the balls ability to change direction.

A dull ball will read friction earlier than a polished ball when thrown on the same line.

When the ball has axis rotation (pointing somewhat left for a right hander) and a reasonable amount of revs, the ball has the potential to change direction.

It's only waiting for the oil pattern the become thin enough for the ball to read friction.

Once it reads friction, it will begin to change direction.

The friction also causes the ball to change how it rotates.

Energy is not lost, it is converted from forward speed, into increased rev rate.

This means a decrease in forward speed, an increase in rev rate, and a decrease in axis rotation.

At some point down the lane, the axis rotation should become 0 relative to the balls path at that moment.

Since there no longer is an axis rotation (relative to the path) there are no more forces causing it to change direction.

The lower the initial rev rate, the quicker the ball loses axis rotation when it encounters friction.

What you are calling a ball having rolled out is really just a ball that didn't change direction enough to point towards a good pocket hit.

The polished ball will not lose it's axis rotation as early due to less friction, so when it exits the oil pattern, it changes direction more.

[Aslan]

The physics of it make sense. The ball's weight and force and momentum are all heading towards the pindeck. The combination of axis rotation and rev rate determine how well the ball can fight that momentum and move sideways (hook). A ball with 90 degree axis rotation and 500rpm is going to be able to move left a good deal before the momentum and force eventually cause the ball to straighten out. Conversely, if there is little to no axis rotation (ball throw more end of end) and/or the revolution rate is rather lower (< 300)...the ball will make some attempt to move...but will quickly succumb to the momentum and forces working against that lateral movement...the force of the ball being thrown towards the pins.

Where the above gets more confusing is when you suddenly add variables like coverstock and ball cores. I think a ball can have a core that influences that lateral ball motion and can enhance it. And even though it's easy to understand pearl vs solid vs hybrid...the coverstocks still vary greatly from ball to ball and company to company. So you could have 2 balls, both solid covers, but one behaves more like a urethane ball and the other like a sponge because of drastic differences in covers and corresponding pore sizes.

But I think everyone can agree that you want the ball that will hook back into the pocket at optimum angle...and change direction from hook phase to roll phase just as it hits the pocket. You don't want the ball to still be hooking sideways as it enters the pindeck...but you also don't want it to enter the roll phase too soon and ruin the entry angle, come in light, and leave 10-pins (or worse).

:cool: sits back and waits for everyone to disagree about what I think everyone can agree on....

[RobLV1]

I refrained from letting MW suck me in. I will do the same for you. LOL

[ellisr63]

Burned up heads is the reason some pros loft the ball out past the arrows. Ball can't hook in the air.

That might explain why years ago my best game ever was when I was lofting the ball past the arrows, and the pins were literally exploding when the ball hit the pocket. I am not a Pro by any means just an average Joe bowler, and I had never had that kind of action before and Bowled a 280 that game (not bad for a 150 bowler :) ).

[augoat]

Energy is a basic way to analyze what a bowling ball is doing, and unless you are analyzing the velocity in each of the three planes, it is useless here. For starters, the kinetic energy of a bowling ball going down a lane will never be higher than the moment it is released. The ball cannot and does not gain energy. This is the Law of Conservation of Energy (or First Law of Thermodynamics). Gravity, air resistance and friction are all working to bring the ball to rest, and once the ball leaves your hand there is nothing to counter these forces and keep it in motion. Below is a link that explains the physics of bowling, but if you want to stick to the basics I'd lean on MW's explanation in terms of making sense and applying physics to a closed system. When he says that the ball "reads" friction, it is the point at which the coefficient of friction combined with the angular momentum (spin or revs are the applied force) around the moment of inertia begins to overcome the linear momentum of the ball (the straight line direction and speed applied to the ball). The core of the ball is important because it dictates the most efficient rotation axis based on it's shape (moment of inertias).

http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-bowling.html

[NewToBowling]

Energy is a basic way to analyze what a bowling ball is doing, and unless you are analyzing the velocity in each of the three planes, it is useless here. For starters, the kinetic energy of a bowling ball going down a lane will never be higher than the moment it is released. The ball cannot and does not gain energy. This is the Law of Conservation of Energy (or First Law of Thermodynamics). Gravity, air resistance and friction are all working to bring the ball to rest, and once the ball leaves your hand there is nothing to counter these forces and keep it in motion. Below is a link that explains the physics of bowling, but if you want to stick to the basics I'd lean on MW's explanation in terms of making sense and applying physics to a closed system. When he says that the ball "reads" friction, it is the point at which the coefficient of friction combined with the angular momentum (spin or revs are the applied force) around the moment of inertia begins to overcome the linear momentum of the ball (the straight line direction and speed applied to the ball). The core of the ball is important because it dictates the most efficient rotation axis based on it's shape (moment of inertias).

http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-bowling.html

Thanks. Just read a bit of your link and I think my head just exploded.

[Aslan]

Who ever said physics wasn't exciting?? ;)

Also, where are all the girls? :(

[Mike White]

Energy is a basic way to analyze what a bowling ball is doing, and unless you are analyzing the velocity in each of the three planes, it is useless here. For starters, the kinetic energy of a bowling ball going down a lane will never be higher than the moment it is released. The ball cannot and does not gain energy. This is the Law of Conservation of Energy (or First Law of Thermodynamics). Gravity, air resistance and friction are all working to bring the ball to rest, and once the ball leaves your hand there is nothing to counter these forces and keep it in motion. Below is a link that explains the physics of bowling, but if you want to stick to the basics I'd lean on MW's explanation in terms of making sense and applying physics to a closed system. When he says that the ball "reads" friction, it is the point at which the coefficient of friction combined with the angular momentum (spin or revs are the applied force) around the moment of inertia begins to overcome the linear momentum of the ball (the straight line direction and speed applied to the ball). The core of the ball is important because it dictates the most efficient rotation axis based on it's shape (moment of inertias).

http://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-bowling.html

One thing I noticed about the link that is wrong is related to track flare.

He indicated that the ball rocks back and forth to create the oil rings, in fact the ball "rocks" in only one direction known as axis migration.


The word "overcome" I think is wrong in "When he says that the ball "reads" friction, it is the point at which the coefficient of friction combined with the angular momentum (spin or revs are the applied force) around the moment of inertia begins to overcome the linear momentum of the ball (the straight line direction and speed applied to the ball). "

Think of an airplane flying directly north with no wind.

That would be a equivalent to a ball hydroplaning on the oil.

Add to that some wind blowing from east to west.

The effect of the wind would be similar to the ball with some axis rotation, and sufficient RPMs finally finding some friction.

The wind is never going to "overcome" the momentum of the plane, but unless the plane corrects it's course, even a small wind will cause the plane to change direction.

500 mph north + 10 mph west gives a resulting vector that is not directly north.

[Aslan]

As nerdy and awesome as this dicsussion is…

One thing I learned at my lesson Monday and it actually worked tonight…was balling down after missing right.

Logically…that doesn't make sense. But thats because I never really understood how a ball "dies". Once it was explained to me…then the idea of the stronger ball missing left then right (when you hit your mark) because the stronger ball "died". So even though it seems like balling down when missing right would result in missing more right…that didn't happen. I balled down to the Slingshot from the polished Encounter and actually made it back to the pocket and struck…after missing WELL right with the stronger polished Encounter.

Anyways…thought I'd share.

[Amyers]

As nerdy and awesome as this dicsussion is…

One thing I learned at my lesson Monday and it actually worked tonight…was balling down after missing right.

Logically…that doesn't make sense. But thats because I never really understood how a ball "dies". Once it was explained to me…then the idea of the stronger ball missing left then right (when you hit your mark) because the stronger ball "died". So even though it seems like balling down when missing right would result in missing more right…that didn't happen. I balled down to the Slingshot from the polished Encounter and actually made it back to the pocket and struck…after missing WELL right with the stronger polished Encounter.

Anyways…thought I'd share.

Kind of depends on why the ball missed right. If you missed due to the ball rolling out/ burning up then yes that could work or you could move farther inside and ball up too. If it missed right because the ball didn't have time to finish it's hook phase (too much oil) you just made your problem worse.:eek:

[Mike White]

Kind of depends on why the ball missed right. If you missed due to the ball rolling out/ burning up then yes that could work or you could move farther inside and ball up too. If it missed right because the ball didn't have time to finish it's hook phase (too much oil) you just made your problem worse.:eek:

It's actually very easy to see the difference between those two possibilities if you have a multi-colored ball, and a bit of observation skills.

The "burning up ball" loses it's axis rotation significantly, while the "too much oil" maintains axis rotation even into the pins.

[Amyers]

It's actually very easy to see the difference between those two possibilities if you have a multi-colored ball, and a bit of observation skills.

The "burning up ball" loses it's axis rotation significantly, while the "too much oil" maintains axis rotation even into the pins.

Wasn't saying I couldn't tell the difference just clarifying for the crowd

[Aslan]

Kind of depends on why the ball missed right. If you missed due to the ball rolling out/ burning up then yes that could work or you could move farther inside and ball up too. If it missed right because the ball didn't have time to finish it's hook phase (too much oil) you just made your problem worse.:eek:

"Usually" (not always)...if a ball misses left or center...and you make a move left....THEN you miss right...THAT is when you should ball down.

Yes, it could miss because of skidding too far...but generally it wouldn't have missed left the shot before if that was the case.

And I never "ball up"...unless I'm completely toast and way, way too far inside...then maybe I'll try a completely different line and ball up to start. But generally I've balled down as I've moved left...balling "up" would put me back in the situation I was already in previous.

My difficulty in mastering this system is:
1) It requires you to have a consistent release/speed.
2) It assumes you have an arsenal with noticeable differences from ball to ball.
3) It assumes you have some semblance of a rev rate.

[classygranny]

Who ever said physics wasn't exciting?? ;)

Also, where are all the girls? :(

I could take offense to that...but I won't. To be honest some of this conversation makes my head spin. I feel like the comic strip character with the head going round 'n round.

While I understand what's happening on the lane and see most of what's happening on the lane (I see other's balls better than my own), taking part in a written conversation of this type would put me way out of my element. I'm an accountant, not a rocket scientist!...if you could make it a number puzzle, then I could get somewhere!

[Aslan]

cgranny-

1) As the only girl that really participates...it gives you the unique position of being able to have your choice of any male BBer that you desire. Granted...that's like saying you get to pick the least smelliest turd in the toilet...but still...if I was the only man on an all female site...and I didn't do anything to make the majority of them hate me...that's like literally 27% of my fantasies. My key to success with the ladies, in addition to ample alcohol availability and desperation...is superior statistical advantage.

2) Don't feel bad. My head spins the same way when MWhite tries to argue about why I shouldn't get handicap when I bowl against him.

My head also spins...like last night...when I'm trying my **** off to bowl well...and taking lessons...and watching bowling...and practicing...and doing ALL that stuff...yet I hit the pocket and leave a 6-pin...yet the beginner girl throwing a 2nd hand ball, back-up style, hits the headpin dead on and gets a strike as the pins part like the Red Sea in slow motion. That makes me want to punch things. I used to have a doll in my bag that I would take my frustrations out on...but during some rather frustrating times, I shook it so violently that the head fell off. So now it's a headless doll.

[Amyers]

cgranny-

1) As the only girl that really participates...it gives you the unique position of being able to have your choice of any male BBer that you desire. Granted...that's like saying you get to pick the least smelliest turd in the toilet...but still...if I was the only man on an all female site...and I didn't do anything to make the majority of them hate me...that's like literally 27% of my fantasies. My key to success with the ladies, in addition to ample alcohol availability and desperation...is superior statistical advantage.

2) Don't feel bad. My head spins the same way when MWhite tries to argue about why I shouldn't get handicap when I bowl against him.

My head also spins...like last night...when I'm trying my **** off to bowl well...and taking lessons...and watching bowling...and practicing...and doing ALL that stuff...yet I hit the pocket and leave a 6-pin...yet the beginner girl throwing a 2nd hand ball, back-up style, hits the headpin dead on and gets a strike as the pins part like the Red Sea in slow motion. That makes me want to punch things. I used to have a doll in my bag that I would take my frustrations out on...but during some rather frustrating times, I shook it so violently that the head fell off. So now it's a headless doll.

Where did you see my oldest daughter bowl? She throws that ball all the time I actually think she truly gets better pin action smacking the head pin dead on than in the pocket

[Mike White]

cgranny-

1) As the only girl that really participates...it gives you the unique position of being able to have your choice of any male BBer that you desire. Granted...that's like saying you get to pick the least smelliest turd in the toilet...but still...if I was the only man on an all female site...and I didn't do anything to make the majority of them hate me...that's like literally 27% of my fantasies. My key to success with the ladies, in addition to ample alcohol availability and desperation...is superior statistical advantage.

2) Don't feel bad. My head spins the same way when MWhite tries to argue about why I shouldn't get handicap when I bowl against him.

My head also spins...like last night...when I'm trying my **** off to bowl well...and taking lessons...and watching bowling...and practicing...and doing ALL that stuff...yet I hit the pocket and leave a 6-pin...yet the beginner girl throwing a 2nd hand ball, back-up style, hits the headpin dead on and gets a strike as the pins part like the Red Sea in slow motion. That makes me want to punch things. I used to have a doll in my bag that I would take my frustrations out on...but during some rather frustrating times, I shook it so violently that the head fell off. So now it's a headless doll.

If you hit the "pocket" and leave a 6 pin, you have too loose a definition of the "pocket".

Thats almost like the time we were in Vegas bowling against Ice/Mud and I hit flush in the pocket and left a 3 pin.

At least in my case, the 3 pin ended up in the 10 pin spot.

[jab5325]

cgranny-

1) As the only girl that really participates...it gives you the unique position of being able to have your choice of any male BBer that you desire. Granted...that's like saying you get to pick the least smelliest turd in the toilet...but still...if I was the only man on an all female site...and I didn't do anything to make the majority of them hate me...that's like literally 27% of my fantasies. My key to success with the ladies, in addition to ample alcohol availability and desperation...is superior statistical advantage.

2) Don't feel bad. My head spins the same way when MWhite tries to argue about why I shouldn't get handicap when I bowl against him.

My head also spins...like last night...when I'm trying my **** off to bowl well...and taking lessons...and watching bowling...and practicing...and doing ALL that stuff...yet I hit the pocket and leave a 6-pin...yet the beginner girl throwing a 2nd hand ball, back-up style, hits the headpin dead on and gets a strike as the pins part like the Red Sea in slow motion. That makes me want to punch things. I used to have a doll in my bag that I would take my frustrations out on...but during some rather frustrating times, I shook it so violently that the head fell off. So now it's a headless doll.

Speaking of strange leaves......my most common leave from Monday night was an 8pin. I've never had that happen before.

[NewToBowling]

Is leaving a 1 and 5 pin rare? I've never seen it.

[Amyers]

Is leaving a 1 and 5 pin rare? I've never seen it.

I've seen 1-5 leaves usually with the kids bowling but an adult can do it. Generally involves a bad shot and pins coming back and tripping some out on either side. I left a 1-5-7 once that I remember.

[Aslan]

If you hit the "pocket" and leave a 6 pin, you have too loose a definition of the "pocket".

True...it seems like a 6-pin leave would require either a very, very light hit that sends the 3-pin back rather than to the right....or you'd have a ball that barely kicked the 3-pin right into the gutter. I think I leave more 6-10s than single 6-pins. Usually if you can't hit the 6...then you can't hit the 10. Lets consult Pinpal for accurate stats:

(4th most common leave) 6-pin: 309/413 = 74%

(2nd most common leave) 6-10: 354/550 = 64%

That makes sense. Leaving just the 6 is harder than the 6-10...but the 6-10 adds a slight degree of difficulty because you can hit left of the 6-pin and chop the 6-10.

The other top 5 are: 10-pin (1st), 7-pin (3rd), and 4-pin (5th). All with pick-up rates between 62-72%.

However...another interesting note...if I change the date range to only include the last YEAR...the single 4-pin gets bumped to 6th and the 1-2-4 is in the 5th spot...298 times in the past year.

[Aslan]

I once left a 2-7-8 split in Game 2 and then a 3-9-10 in Game 3...made both of them...but I can't remember the last time I left a 1-5 or 1-5-7 or 1-5-10.

Accrording to Pinpal:

1-5-10 (2x)
1-5-7 (0x)
1-5 (0x)

I have left the 1-8-9 (1x)...which I guess is almost as bad.

[Mike White]

True...it seems like a 6-pin leave would require either a very, very light hit that sends the 3-pin back rather than to the right....or you'd have a ball that barely kicked the 3-pin right into the gutter. I think I leave more 6-10s than single 6-pins. Usually if you can't hit the 6...then you can't hit the 10. Lets consult Pinpal for accurate stats:


Leaving the 6 pin is usually hitting fairly high on the head pin such that the ball hits a little bit of the 3 pin sending it into the right gutter without touching the 6 pin.

If the 3 pin doesn't bounce off the wall enough, you end up leaving both the 6 and 10.

I have occasionally left a light pocket 6 pin, but it's rare even with my ball reaction.

In this video at 1:50 I leave a 6 pin where the ball comes up high, and a 3:08 I almost leave a 6 pin hitting light.

As for the 6-10, in my last session of league before heading to Laughlin for sweepers, in game 3 I started with the front 9 , then got one pointed in a bit too much and left the 6-10, made the spare, then rang a 10 pin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGgFt4v5aDg