Release help

[Aslan]

As I continue to struggle to develop a more modern release...one thing I can't seem to mentally wrap my head around is this:

First....the consensus opinion is that a modern release is a swing that starts with the ball to the inside...and the release is very relaxed...the hand rotates relatively little just from inside to behind the ball...and the fingers just kinda "flick" the ball in whatever angle of axis tilt desired.

So here's where I'm struggling...it SEEMS that your ARM is going back and forward...but your wrist/hand is rolling the ball sideways.

I think that's where I'm developing a bit of a mental block is I can understand staying behind the ball and rolling it end over end. I can also understand bringing the hand up the side (hand to the ceiling) because in BOTH cases...the hand and arm are going in the same direction. But it SEEMS that with a modern release...you need to get you hand to almost operate independently of your arm...like rubbing your head and stomach at the same time.

Anyone want to comment and attempt to remove one of Aslan's significant (and plentiful) mental blocks???

Anyone besides Hammer who is just going to quote a Bowlversity article???? (just kidding) ;)

[Amyers]

sorry release is the one area I refuse to try and comment on I get lost in a second beyond the fact that mine works at least somewhat. My PSO commented how up the back of the ball I am I never once considered myself up the back of the ball especially tracking as far from the thumb as I do. I'm just as lost as you and I seem to get more confused the more I think about it

[classygranny]

Could probably comment here, but I am not sure I would be ready for the chastising.

One thing I will say is I found it easier to work on my release (what little that has been) by using the one-step approach/drill. Works better than practicing with your full approach. Are you absolutely positive that you are getting your thumb out clean and early?

The other item I will be brave enough to mention, is that until your footwork and approach is very consistent, there isn't much use in working on your release as it may change once your approach is somewhat where you want it to be.

And I might add that you might find that that lesson with Mark Baker may make a huge difference.

OK - I'm done, will not put myself out there more than this, even knowing this may get challenged.

[Mike White]

As I continue to struggle to develop a more modern release...one thing I can't seem to mentally wrap my head around is this:

First....the consensus opinion is that a modern release is a swing that starts with the ball to the inside...and the release is very relaxed...the hand rotates relatively little just from inside to behind the ball...and the fingers just kinda "flick" the ball in whatever angle of axis tilt desired.

So here's where I'm struggling...it SEEMS that your ARM is going back and forward...but your wrist/hand is rolling the ball sideways.

I think that's where I'm developing a bit of a mental block is I can understand staying behind the ball and rolling it end over end. I can also understand bringing the hand up the side (hand to the ceiling) because in BOTH cases...the hand and arm are going in the same direction. But it SEEMS that with a modern release...you need to get you hand to almost operate independently of your arm...like rubbing your head and stomach at the same time.

Anyone want to comment and attempt to remove one of Aslan's significant (and plentiful) mental blocks???

Anyone besides Hammer who is just going to quote a Bowlversity article???? (just kidding) ;)


Rather than focus on "playing the inside" take a look at the ball review for the Hammer Black Widow Red Legend in the giveaway thread.

The "old" guy named Curlie Becton.

I wouldn't say his release is great, but it's a mile better than yours.

He doesn't play the inside of the ball.

Start trying to replicate what he does, and don't obsess with trying to match some high level pro.

[Aslan]

Rather than focus on "playing the inside" take a look at the ball review for the Hammer Black Widow Red Legend in the giveaway thread.

The "old" guy named Curlie Becton.

It's funny that you mention Curlie...because he's one of maybe 3 people I've seen in bowling videos that I've been able to watch and get anything meaningful from. I usually fast forward to the 3rd bowler because it's usually Curlie. He has what I'd call the "old guy release" where he doesn't bend his knee much and just almost seems like he just drops it. I know that's not what he's doing...but it seems that way.

I see your point about emulating a more moderate level pro than high level youngster. I just don't know if, at 40 years old with significant wear and tear on my feet/knees/ankles...if it's realistic that I can develop a poor man's Dick Allen or Mike Fagan release. It may be more realistic to accept that I'm not 19...and maybe direct my focus/resources on developing a release like the most successful senior PBA bowlers.

I first tried to emulate WRW...but his release is unconventional. I then tried to emulate Earl Anthony...but his release was using old technology and was by no means "modern". So then I tried to adapt my natural loft and modern swing concept and emulate Mika...but his release is also unconventional (in terms of how far out he lofts it), and then I looked at Parker Bohn III to try to find a release that was successful....works for an older guy...but is fairly modern in execution. But it seems like Parker is a lot more "on the side" of the ball than "through" the ball. So recently I've been looking at Fagan's...which is one of the more fundamentally perfect releases in the game. But man...he gets SO LOW...and is able to get that hand rotated, thumb out, and wrist snapped so fast. I'm gonna dig up some Dick Allen footage as well...another release that is fundamentally solid.

But that gets back to an even older topic....muscling, getting some hand into the shot, and the perfectly relaxed swing. We all talk about relaxed swings and not "muscling"...yet I see the pros torque the hell out of their bodies and pull that arm down, and snap that wrist....theres not a whole lot of "relaxed" going on for many of them...or at least it doesn't seem like there is.

But thanks all...yes CGranny...my coach said the same thing about release...that we gotta get timing and the approach fixed because it sets the foundation for everything else; including the release. And I WILL get a lesson from Mark this summer...barring any unforeseen tragedy. I'm aiming for late July/early August so whatever I "learn" I can incorporate into my game before sweeps the middle of September. I set it as a goal this season so a lesson with Mark IS going to happen.

I've been thinking of going to a 3-step approach to see if I can simplify things in the approach a bit. Or maybe go back to a 5-step approach like when I was experimenting with Joe Slowinski's DYDS approach...to try to make my 1st/2nd step smaller and more fluid. I can do a 1-step in practice...but I'd be reluctant to use a 1 or 2 step approach in competition.

[Amyers]

I've had the most success with the 5 step approach with a short sliding first step and a hinge pushaway but everyone's different.

[RobLV1]

I've been thinking of going to a 3-step approach to see if I can simplify things in the approach a bit. Or maybe go back to a 5-step approach like when I was experimenting with Joe Slowinski's DYDS approach...to try to make my 1st/2nd step smaller and more fluid. I can do a 1-step in practice...but I'd be reluctant to use a 1 or 2 step approach in competition.

Bowling, regardless of the number of steps taken, is based on a four-step approach. Going to a 3-step is a REALLY BAD IDEA!

[jab5325]

It's funny that you mention Curlie...because he's one of maybe 3 people I've seen in bowling videos that I've been able to watch and get anything meaningful from. I usually fast forward to the 3rd bowler because it's usually Curlie. He has what I'd call the "old guy release" where he doesn't bend his knee much and just almost seems like he just drops it. I know that's not what he's doing...but it seems that way.

I see your point about emulating a more moderate level pro than high level youngster. I just don't know if, at 40 years old with significant wear and tear on my feet/knees/ankles...if it's realistic that I can develop a poor man's Dick Allen or Mike Fagan release. It may be more realistic to accept that I'm not 19...and maybe direct my focus/resources on developing a release like the most successful senior PBA bowlers.

I first tried to emulate WRW...but his release is unconventional. I then tried to emulate Earl Anthony...but his release was using old technology and was by no means "modern". So then I tried to adapt my natural loft and modern swing concept and emulate Mika...but his release is also unconventional (in terms of how far out he lofts it), and then I looked at Parker Bohn III to try to find a release that was successful....works for an older guy...but is fairly modern in execution. But it seems like Parker is a lot more "on the side" of the ball than "through" the ball. So recently I've been looking at Fagan's...which is one of the more fundamentally perfect releases in the game. But man...he gets SO LOW...and is able to get that hand rotated, thumb out, and wrist snapped so fast. I'm gonna dig up some Dick Allen footage as well...another release that is fundamentally solid.

But that gets back to an even older topic....muscling, getting some hand into the shot, and the perfectly relaxed swing. We all talk about relaxed swings and not "muscling"...yet I see the pros torque the hell out of their bodies and pull that arm down, and snap that wrist....theres not a whole lot of "relaxed" going on for many of them...or at least it doesn't seem like there is.

But thanks all...yes CGranny...my coach said the same thing about release...that we gotta get timing and the approach fixed because it sets the foundation for everything else; including the release. And I WILL get a lesson from Mark this summer...barring any unforeseen tragedy. I'm aiming for late July/early August so whatever I "learn" I can incorporate into my game before sweeps the middle of September. I set it as a goal this season so a lesson with Mark IS going to happen.

I've been thinking of going to a 3-step approach to see if I can simplify things in the approach a bit. Or maybe go back to a 5-step approach like when I was experimenting with Joe Slowinski's DYDS approach...to try to make my 1st/2nd step smaller and more fluid. I can do a 1-step in practice...but I'd be reluctant to use a 1 or 2 step approach in competition.

How about worrying about developing Aslan's release?

Pick a release that works for you (physically and mentally), and stick with it. Focus on only that release, and stop worrying about emulating anyone. Then, because it gets committed to muscle memory, you can get a repeatable release.....and then a repeatable approach.

Bowling today is about being to have something repeatable, and knowing your equipment/game. Once you have that down, it doesn't matter if you're 2-handed, Mike Fagan, Earl Anthony or Aslan....you'll be averaging 200+.

[RobLV1]

I have coached Aslan off and on over the past two or three years. I am familiar with his physical game as well as his outlook and attitude. That's why I'm not worrying about developing his release. As a coach, it's my job to give him what he needs to get where he wants to be.

[jab5325]

Not saying you're not doing your job, and I agree with you.

You know Aslan much better than I/us on the board, but from what I see....over-thinking/over-analyzing can be just as big of a problem than a flaw in release or approach.

[RobLV1]

Not saying you're not doing your job, and I agree with you.

You know Aslan much better than I/us on the board, but from what I see....over-thinking/over-analyzing can be just as big of a problem than a flaw in release or approach.

Ding, Ding, Ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner. LOL

[HowDoIHookAgain]

First post in, like, ever, so here goes. Release is hard to master for a lot of people. As a very young bowler, my release is very sporadic and random from time to time. Some of that is because my palms are naturally sweaty, and that plays all kinds of tricks on my release. But most of my problems just seems to be from age and a lack of experience. That being said, you're (for lack of better term) more experienced than I am, age wise.

I don't know how many people agree with me here, but I don't like the flicking of the wrist method so much. My wrists are extremely (and I stress the word extremely) weak, so I cannot generate much hook or power from them. Yes, your wrist is supposed to, in a sense, move from one position to another to generate the hook. But due to my poor wrists, I normally tend to either come across the ball too much, or I throw my arm all the way across my body. My father taught me a method of fixing this.

I don't know if you know of this, or if anyone recommended this, but when I get set up in the approach, my wrist is already in the position where you generate the hook before I begin the approach. For a better visualization of this, put your arm out as if you were set up before you begin your approach. Imagine your ball is in your hand (use your ball if you want). Now bear with me, because this is going to get confusing.

Now take your hand in the set position, and cock it 90 degrees to the left. Your fingers should now be facing the left of your body (this is for a righty. If you're lefty, then you want your wrist cocked 90 degrees to the right, fingers facing right). What this does is it automatically puts your wrist in a position where you can generate hook from a ball. It also takes away your mental issue of your arm and wrist both making separate motions during the swing. By using this, your wrist will already be in a ready position to release the ball.

Ignore this if you want, but I just thought this might be helpful to take away any confusion you have.

[jab5325]

First post in, like, ever, so here goes. Release is hard to master for a lot of people. As a very young bowler, my release is very sporadic and random from time to time. Some of that is because my palms are naturally sweaty, and that plays all kinds of tricks on my release. But most of my problems just seems to be from age and a lack of experience. That being said, you're (for lack of better term) more experienced than I am, age wise.

I don't know how many people agree with me here, but I don't like the flicking of the wrist method so much. My wrists are extremely (and I stress the word extremely) weak, so I cannot generate much hook or power from them. Yes, your wrist is supposed to, in a sense, move from one position to another to generate the hook. But due to my poor wrists, I normally tend to either come across the ball too much, or I throw my arm all the way across my body. My father taught me a method of fixing this.

I don't know if you know of this, or if anyone recommended this, but when I get set up in the approach, my wrist is already in the position where you generate the hook before I begin the approach. For a better visualization of this, put your arm out as if you were set up before you begin your approach. Imagine your ball is in your hand (use your ball if you want). Now bear with me, because this is going to get confusing.

Now take your hand in the set position, and cock it 90 degrees to the left. Your fingers should now be facing the left of your body (this is for a righty. If you're lefty, then you want your wrist cocked 90 degrees to the right, fingers facing right). What this does is it automatically puts your wrist in a position where you can generate hook from a ball. It also takes away your mental issue of your arm and wrist both making separate motions during the swing. By using this, your wrist will already be in a ready position to release the ball.

Ignore this if you want, but I just thought this might be helpful to take away any confusion you have.

What you seem to be describing is "suitcasing" the ball. The best bowler in my leagues, a lefty coincidentally, does this and averages 220+. He's a low-rev, low-speed player to boot--and he's just as good on various lane conditions. He's won multiple regional USBC tournaments, and just about every local tournament around. He has deadly aim, doesn't use a spare ball, and understands his arsenal like no one I've seen in person. I got to bowl with him in February on the Kegel Route 66 pattern (which you'd think would hurt someone with that type of profile), and he still averaged 200.

It's all about doing whatever you do every time, all the time.

[HowDoIHookAgain]

It's similar to a suitcase, but not quite. Your palm still stays underneath of the ball during the release. I suppose you could call it a more advanced form of a suitcase. The big difference really between the two is in suitcasing, your palm is facing down on top of the ball, but this way, it is facing directly up towards the bottom of the ball.

[classygranny]

First post in, like, ever, so here goes. Release is hard to master for a lot of people. As a very young bowler, my release is very sporadic and random from time to time. Some of that is because my palms are naturally sweaty, and that plays all kinds of tricks on my release. But most of my problems just seems to be from age and a lack of experience. That being said, you're (for lack of better term) more experienced than I am, age wise.

I don't know how many people agree with me here, but I don't like the flicking of the wrist method so much. My wrists are extremely (and I stress the word extremely) weak, so I cannot generate much hook or power from them. Yes, your wrist is supposed to, in a sense, move from one position to another to generate the hook. But due to my poor wrists, I normally tend to either come across the ball too much, or I throw my arm all the way across my body. My father taught me a method of fixing this.

I don't know if you know of this, or if anyone recommended this, but when I get set up in the approach, my wrist is already in the position where you generate the hook before I begin the approach. For a better visualization of this, put your arm out as if you were set up before you begin your approach. Imagine your ball is in your hand (use your ball if you want). Now bear with me, because this is going to get confusing.

Now take your hand in the set position, and cock it 90 degrees to the left. Your fingers should now be facing the left of your body (this is for a righty. If you're lefty, then you want your wrist cocked 90 degrees to the right, fingers facing right). What this does is it automatically puts your wrist in a position where you can generate hook from a ball. It also takes away your mental issue of your arm and wrist both making separate motions during the swing. By using this, your wrist will already be in a ready position to release the ball.

Ignore this if you want, but I just thought this might be helpful to take away any confusion you have.

He's not describing a "suitcase" release - that would be with the fingers more to the right of the body.

What is being described is setting the ball in your stance with your fingers at about 7-9 pm on the clock...so the outside of your fingers are to the left (left side of ball) and the theory is that if you keep your hand in that position thru your entire arm swing that the natural "relaxed" arm swing will automatically make the ball turn about a 1/4 turn when your thumb exits the ball. Very easy to do, and very easy to be consistent at it. The hardest thing is finding the "sweet spot" for your finger position in your stance. The next hardest thing, is making sure you don't open up the shoulder more than you want to.

[HowDoIHookAgain]

I took some pictures to show what I mean. The first picture is a normal hand position like any regular bowler http://gyazo.com/a3c061869099df4845874aef814fbecb. The second one shows how I set up myself before I begin my approach (please note, you need to tilt your head in order to see the difference, sorry about that) http://gyazo.com/35836a8128b6bb6b8cea1c3cd7b1a413.

[Average200someday]

He's not describing a "suitcase" release - that would be with the fingers more to the right of the body.

What is being described is setting the ball in your stance with your fingers at about 7-9 pm on the clock...so the outside of your fingers are to the left (left side of ball) and the theory is that if you keep your hand in that position thru your entire arm swing that the natural "relaxed" arm swing will automatically make the ball turn about a 1/4 turn when your thumb exits the ball. Very easy to do, and very easy to be consistent at it. The hardest thing is finding the "sweet spot" for your finger position in your stance. The next hardest thing, is making sure you don't open up the shoulder more than you want to.

Per one of the coaches in my group class, I changed from directly under the ball at 12:00 position, to fingers pointing to left side of ball between 10:00 and 11:00 position (as viewed down the lane during setup) and experienced exactly what you described.

Another benefit I've noticed with this consistent setup and release, is that previously with the 12:00, during the backswing most of the weight of the ball is on the base of my thumb joint (causing pain) plus gripped by the pads of the fingers; but with the angled position, the weight is also on the sides of the thumb and fingers. It ends up being a much more relaxed grip and release. Doesn't even seem like a grip anymore!

[JoeBeavis]

The release is the one part of the game that at this point is threatening to just cause me to say to hell with this and leave my balls on the house ball rack and never return. I am very new to bowling and have spent a ridiculous amount of time reading articles, watching videos, getting tips from experienced bowlers and even a couple lessons. I've come to the conclusion that nobody does it the same and I now have so much info in my head I can't even decide/figure out what's best for me.

I think the advice to develop one technique is solid advice. Bowling seems to be a game of consistency. It seems the good ones look the same every time they throw the ball regardless of conditions. They just adjust where they start, what they aim at and where they finish the approach but the whole motion looks the same. I'm not experienced enough to offer advice but I will say don't be like me and mentally overload yourself/over think things. It will only cause frustration and aggravation. Good luck!

[bowling boss]

Just remember to have consistent release, you shold have a good solid foundation
at the line, beacuse if your not solid, the release will be inconsistent.

[Aslan]

Release is improving.

Not sure how...I think switching to 15lbs was actually the light bulb that suddenly went off kinda moment. And it's made me much more critical of my ball selection because if I have good rotation and axis tilt...and I hit my mark...and the ball doesn't respond...I know that at least in part...the ball is not doing what I want it to.

My release is always going to be a "work in progress"...but at least now I got it fixed enough that I can start focusing on other things like consistent ball speed. BEFORE I fixed it....it was very, very frustrating because even when I was seemingly doing everything right (stance, approach, timing, accuracy, form, etc...)...but I'd still hit weak. Did the ball burn out? Maybe. But it was pretty obvious watching the ball rotate that one big factor was release. I was staying behind the ball...but in a way that pushed the ball straight. Rather than having my thumb at 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock or even 2 o'clock...my thumb would be at 2-3 o'clock.

Rob was able to help a little bit by getting me to at least start visualizing the area between the thumb and forefinger going towards the pin...and getting lower at the line helped a little too. But it wasn't until recently with the 15lb balls that suddenly the light bulb turned on, so to speak.

[Tony]

After experimenting with different releases and considering prior wrist, bicep and shoulder surgeries,
I have found that keeping my hand slightly tilted toward the outside of the ball throughout my arm swing and releasing the ball with the thumb in the 12 position gives me a decent amount of rotation and for me seems to be easily repeatable,