10 Pin Shooting

[Cdolcejr]

Been bowling for a long time, but for some reason I just cannot consistently make my 10 pins. I'm usually 70% on them which isn't too good but lately, I have been so atrocious at shooting them that I must be under 50% in league. My 700 series are becoming 650 series and my 650 series are becoming 600 series. I even started throwing a backup-ball. I quickly decided against that. I have seemingly tried everything:

Plastic Ball with and without polish (Blue Dot/Taboo Spare)
Urethane (Karma Urethane)
Standing Far Left (aiming at 20 board cross lane)
Standing Right to cut down the angle
Taking my middle finger out of the ball to kill the reaction
Backup Ball
etc etc etc...

I currently use an old blue dot, but I'm not sure plastic is the best thing for me. Last night I tried my Karma Urethane and yielded better results as it was not as over/under as my plastic ball.

My question to you is:

1. What type of ball do you use when shooting your 10 pin (or 7 pin if you are a lefty).
2. How do you shoot your 10 pin? (Where do you stand, how do you throw it, where do you aim, technique, etc)

Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

I'm a 215-220 bowler and for whatever reason I can't figure it out and it's very frustrating. I dedicate most of my practice sessions solely to the 10 pin. That's how bad it has gotten.

[mc_runner]

Personally I use plastic, and shoot cross-alley at it (over the middle arrow). I've tried targeting straight at the pin but see mixed results at best. I've found that projecting the ball helps with my accuracy at the mark in a significant way - it seems that the 10 pin results are more mental than anything else. I can hit 25+ in a row, then miss a shot and end up missing 3/4 of them for a week or 2 until I can reset mentally.

The best way I've found to look at it, is just thinking "hey if I hit my mark, it's going to hit it no problem" and just go an execute. Let the muscle memory take over. That usually is what busts out of the slumps too

[Amyers]

Everyone struggles at times with the corner pins. I use a plastic ball aimed over about 17 to pick up the 10 pin (I'm a righty). I echo MC's comments I'll go on a tear and make them all but if I'm miss one I'm going to miss more. What's causing your issue? Missing target, ball hooking, wrong angle? Seems like lefties struggle more with the 7 than righty's do with the 10. I think it has to do more with righty's typically play deeper on the lane out of necessity than lefties do so righty's are more used to adjusting their angles.

[NewToBowling]

I don't have a spare ball so use my reactive. Just less hand and I usually pick it up

[Cdolcejr]

Everyone struggles at times with the corner pins. I use a plastic ball aimed over about 17 to pick up the 10 pin (I'm a righty). I echo MC's comments I'll go on a tear and make them all but if I'm miss one I'm going to miss more. What's causing your issue? Missing target, ball hooking, wrong angle? Seems like lefties struggle more with the 7 than righty's do with the 10. I think it has to do more with righty's typically play deeper on the lane out of necessity than lefties do so righty's are more used to adjusting their angles.

I think it's like you both said- it can be mental at times. It happens to me where I can make 10 in a row and miss 5 in a row. On the physical side of the game, I feel like it can be that I'm missing my target slightly (a board or 2 in either direction) and the ball either misses by an inch left, or falls into the gutter at the last second. I don't have a problem with the ball hooking because I throw the ball with only my ring finger and thumb- the ball goes super straight. I was talking to my buddy last night who also throws urethane for 10 pins and we both agreed that there is less margin for error with plastic as it seems very erratic most of the time.

[J Anderson]

Been bowling for a long time, but for some reason I just cannot consistently make my 10 pins. I'm usually 70% on them which isn't too good but lately, I have been so atrocious at shooting them that I must be under 50% in league. My 700 series are becoming 650 series and my 650 series are becoming 600 series. I even started throwing a backup-ball. I quickly decided against that. I have seemingly tried everything:

Plastic Ball with and without polish (Blue Dot/Taboo Spare)
Urethane (Karma Urethane)
Standing Far Left (aiming at 20 board cross lane)
Standing Right to cut down the angle
Taking my middle finger out of the ball to kill the reaction
Backup Ball
etc etc etc...

I currently use an old blue dot, but I'm not sure plastic is the best thing for me. Last night I tried my Karma Urethane and yielded better results as it was not as over/under as my plastic ball.

My question to you is:

1. What type of ball do you use when shooting your 10 pin (or 7 pin if you are a lefty).
2. How do you shoot your 10 pin? (Where do you stand, how do you throw it, where do you aim, technique, etc)

Any insight you can provide would be appreciated.

I'm a 215-220 bowler and for whatever reason I can't figure it out and it's very frustrating. I dedicate most of my practice sessions solely to the 10 pin. That's how bad it has gotten.

1. For the 10 pin I'm currently using a Storm mix; urethane cover with a pancake weight block. I used to use a White Dot but it started to chip around the finger holes after only a year. When I bowl lefty I use a Storm HyRoad to shoot the 7 pin, it's usually the same ball as I'm throwing for strikes.

2. Stand on 30th board, aim at 14 at the arrows, ( I tend to drift right with my feet ), flat release so the ball goes end over end. Some times I will use only the thumb and one finger, if I notice that I'm getting some axis rotation.

Insights: All bowlers, with the possible exception of Walter Ray Williams, go through slumps in their spare shooting. Eventually you will return to form.

If you've been spending most of your practice time on the ten pin without improvement, you may be trying too hard. Take a break from working on it. Maybe try to see how close you can come to the 10 without touching it. When you go back to working on it, make it fun. play games of low ball with a friend.

Spare shooting is at least 50% confidence. If the confidence isn't there, substitute not thinking. Pick whatever ball you're going to use to shoot it, take your place on the approach, look at your target, GO. If this takes more than 8 seconds your conscious mind will kick into gear and make you miss.

p.s. When I'm really in a slump on corner pins I will revert to aiming directly at the pin instead of using an intermediate target.

[Amyers]

I think it's like you both said- it can be mental at times. It happens to me where I can make 10 in a row and miss 5 in a row. On the physical side of the game, I feel like it can be that I'm missing my target slightly (a board or 2 in either direction) and the ball either misses by an inch left, or falls into the gutter at the last second. I don't have a problem with the ball hooking because I throw the ball with only my ring finger and thumb- the ball goes super straight. I was talking to my buddy last night who also throws urethane for 10 pins and we both agreed that there is less margin for error with plastic as it seems very erratic most of the time.

As I mentioned earlier I typically aim about 17 for my 7 pins. I can hit as far right as 15 and as far left as 20 and still make the pin but at either extreme the angle, release and ball speed have to be perfect where as if I hit my mark it really doesn't matter I'm going to make the pin. You may need to experiment a little with your target and angle to find a sweet spot that gives you a little extra room.

[vdubtx]

I have struggled with 10 pins in the past as well. Now, for this past season I picked up 91% of the time(PBA pro's are in the 95-96% range). That percentage is going to continue to increase this next year as well. The change for me was something that I learned from Susie Minshew and also from Rob on this site.

Susie has an article in Bowling This Month which describes a mind set to not shoot at a lone pin on the deck, rather shoot at the 6-10 if you have just the 10 or just the 6 up for instance. The next piece of my way of picking up the 10 pin is I don't focus on a mark on the lane, I focus on the pin instead. This has really worked wonders for my single pin spare game. In total for last season I converted single pins at a rate of 94%. I stand to the left on last set of dots on approach and go cross lane.

Also, I only use plastic ball for right side spare pick ups. Depending on the shot, I use plastic on left side leaves as well.

[Jessiewoodard57]

I use my Taboo Spare ball rolling it down the 10 board making sure to come out of the back of the ball. I use the same ball as a strike ball on broken patterns or dry lanes. On a dry lane it has an awesome roll out of the breakpoint. 2 weeks ago on league night the lanes where so bad (only 20 ft of oil on the front end) that I had issues with my Crux Pearl and Radical Score. I put both balls away thinking I'll go to my Ride but grabbed my Taboo spare instead and wouldn't you now it the first 2 rolls where strikes.

[djp1080]

I've been down this road. Three things more that I tried:
1) Used of my 50+ year old Black Beauty.
2) Tried a Columbia White Dot.
3) Tried a conventional grip on a Storm Polar Ice urethane ball.

Today I use a Storm Mix urethane drilled exactly like my reactive resin balls (right-handed). I stand with the middle of my slide foot on board 29 and aim at board 9 at the range finder at about 40 feet (or use board 14 or 15 at the arrows). Once I angled my shoulders and swing towards my target while continuing to walk straight up the boards (i.e., perpendicular to the foul line) my ability to hit the 10 pin improved drastically. I don't wince now when leaving them and have every confidence in picking it up. Hope this helps... Works for me...

[Cdolcejr]

I've been down this road. Three things more that I tried:
1) Used of my 50+ year old Black Beauty.
2) Tried a Columbia White Dot.
3) Tried a conventional grip on a Storm Polar Ice urethane ball.

Today I use a Storm Mix urethane drilled exactly like my reactive resin balls (right-handed). I stand with the middle of my slide foot on board 29 and aim at board 9 at the range finder at about 40 feet (or use board 14 or 15 at the arrows). Once I angled my shoulders and swing towards my target while continuing to walk straight up the boards (i.e., perpendicular to the foul line) my ability to hit the 10 pin improved drastically. I don't wince now when leaving them and have every confidence in picking it up. Hope this helps... Works for me...

What made you switch from the plastic white dot to urethane?

[Mark O]

I can second a lot of what has been said in this thread, especially what was said by Vdub as the advice he gave is the advice that really put my 10 pin shooting over the top this season. I used to use my strike ball for every spare and was lingering around 50% on my 10 pin conversions. I switched to plastic this past season, shot over the 3rd arrow, and I jumped up to about 80% on my conversions. Towards the end of the season I was given the advice to focus on the pin instead and I converted 22 straight at one point and ultimately ended the season by making 36 of my last 38 10 pins. I realize it is a small sample size but I have no doubts that I'm much better at it now than I ever have been.

It's ultimately about what works best for you and finding a way to consistently and confidently convert the spare. But judging by your average I think it's safe to say you are pretty good at hitting what you are looking at so you might as well give targeting the pin a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised.

[Cdolcejr]

I can second a lot of what has been said in this thread, especially what was said by Vdub as the advice he gave is the advice that really put my 10 pin shooting over the top this season. I used to use my strike ball for every spare and was lingering around 50% on my 10 pin conversions. I switched to plastic this past season, shot over the 3rd arrow, and I jumped up to about 80% on my conversions. Towards the end of the season I was given the advice to focus on the pin instead and I converted 22 straight at one point and ultimately ended the season by making 36 of my last 38 10 pins. I realize it is a small sample size but I have no doubts that I'm much better at it now than I ever have been.

It's ultimately about what works best for you and finding a way to consistently and confidently convert the spare. But judging by your average I think it's safe to say you are pretty good at hitting what you are looking at so you might as well give targeting the pin a shot, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Definitely worth a shot. That might be the only thing I haven't tried yet. I'll see how it goes tonight.

[RobLV1]

For those of you who are usually pretty good at picking up tens, but go through periods of missing, look at your timing. Work on posting every shot you throw; strikes and spares alike. I think you'll find that once you fix your timing, you'll be back on track picking up ten pins.

[John Anderson]

I'm using my old bash to shoot spares because I haven't bought a spare ball yet. I'm thinking about buying one, but I'm not sure that I really need once since I'm not doing tournaments or anything too serious. I can't justify spending $175 for a new ball.drilling plus a new bag when I pretty much bowl for fun.

[djp1080]

What made you switch from the plastic white dot to urethane?
Like you I tried everything under the sun. I was losing many of my attempts into the channel. I first thought that a bit of hold in the last 20 feet or so might help keep the ball on the lane. So the urethane ball moved slightly on the back end which gave me just the right amount of cushion and later confidence. Two things though... Moving my shoulders and swing was likely the biggest physical aid that helped. Secondly, Rob's articles in Bowling This Month regarding spare shooting were an inspiration, especially seeing his photo shots of the lanes. I finally realized that the middle of the 10 pin sits about on board 3 rather than board 5. Rolling a pretty straight shot and getting it over board 8 or 9 at 40 feet should be plenty good enough (near the tip of those range finders). Laying the ball down on about board 20 or 21 was just about right. Hope this helps...

[RobLV1]

I'm using my old bash to shoot spares because I haven't bought a spare ball yet. I'm thinking about buying one, but I'm not sure that I really need once since I'm not doing tournaments or anything too serious. I can't justify spending $175 for a new ball.drilling plus a new bag when I pretty much bowl for fun.

Most proshops offer plastic spare balls for $60-$70 drilled. My advice is to go with a less expensive strike ball than you are considering in the other post, and spend the difference on a spare ball.

[RobLV1]

I think that a lot of the problem with shooting ten pins comes from the stress involved in the fear of missing. The stress results in fast feet that results in late timing which results in misses to the right. Often bowlers realize this and slow their feet down too much which results in early timing and missing to the left. Consider this: When you shoot at a single five pin, you have the pin that is 4 3/4" wide, plus 8 1/2" on the left side (the bowling ball is 8 3/4" in diameter), and 8 1/2" on the right side - that is a target that is 21 3/4" wide! With a ten pin, you still have the 4 3/4" for the pin, 8 1/2" to the left of the pin, and 4 1/4" to the right (1/2 of the diameter of the ball). That is still a target that is 18" wide. To put this in perspective, a standard shoe box is 11 1/2" long. Could you hit a shoe box that is on the far right side of the pin deck? Of course you could!

Once you put the task in perspective, hopefully it will help you to free up your armswing and just let the ball go. Unless, of course, you are one of the 18% above that chooses to use a reactive ball to shoot the ten pin, in which case I have no sympathy for you at all. 99% of the top bowlers in the world throw plastic for a reason!

[John Anderson]

Most proshops offer plastic spare balls for $60-$70 drilled. My advice is to go with a less expensive strike ball than you are considering in the other post, and spend the difference on a spare ball.

It's $81 (including 8% sales tax) for me to get any spare ball since I want grips and slugs. That equates to about $40ish for the ball itself and $35 for drilling + slug/grips, so that's still cheaper than online. Plus, my pro shop guy is awesome, so I'll see if he will cut me a break for buying two balls from him plus a bag at once. If I can sneak in two balls plus a 2 ball roller in for ~$250-$260 I'll do it. I'm waiting to talk to the guy until I'm ready to make my purchases.

I know that using a spare ball will increase spares converted, but I'm pretty happy now since I'm averaging about 185 at the moment, and really need to get better at reading the lanes to bump my average up. I figure a new ball will help anyways since I'm due for a span adjustment.

[Mike White]

I think that a lot of the problem with shooting ten pins comes from the stress involved in the fear of missing. The stress results in fast feet that results in late timing which results in misses to the right. Often bowlers realize this and slow their feet down too much which results in early timing and missing to the left. Consider this: When you shoot at a single five pin, you have the pin that is 4 3/4" wide, plus 8 1/2" on the left side (the bowling ball is 8 3/4" in diameter), and 8 1/2" on the right side - that is a target that is 21 3/4" wide! With a ten pin, you still have the 4 3/4" for the pin, 8 1/2" to the left of the pin, and 4 1/4" to the right (1/2 of the diameter of the ball). That is still a target that is 18" wide. To put this in perspective, a standard shoe box is 11 1/2" long. Could you hit a shoe box that is on the far right side of the pin deck? Of course you could!

Once you put the task in perspective, hopefully it will help you to free up your armswing and just let the ball go. Unless, of course, you are one of the 18% above that chooses to use a reactive ball to shoot the ten pin, in which case I have no sympathy for you at all. 99% of the top bowlers in the world throw plastic for a reason!

Amazing bad math.


The "perfect" shot has the ball hitting the 5 pin exactly in the center of the pin.

Lets calculate how much off of perfect you can be and still hit the 5 pin.

The pin is 4 3/4" wide, and the ball is 8 1/2" wide, so if you are more than 6 5/8" off of perfect, you miss the pin.

That's 1/2 the width of the pin, plus 1/2 the width of the ball.

Since you have that room for error both left and right, you have a total area of 13 1/4" to hit the 5 pin.

Things are different for a 10 pin.

You have the same 6 5/8" before you miss on the left, but only 2 3/4" on the right before the ball is off the edge of the lane.

Thats a total of 9 3/8" for a 10 pin.

You can add a small amount to that because it's possible to hit the 10 pin as the ball is barely falling off the edge of the lane.

[RobLV1]

Amazing bad math.


The "perfect" shot has the ball hitting the 5 pin exactly in the center of the pin.

Lets calculate how much off of perfect you can be and still hit the 5 pin.

The pin is 4 3/4" wide, and the ball is 8 1/2" wide, so if you are more than 6 5/8" off of perfect, you miss the pin.

That's 1/2 the width of the pin, plus 1/2 the width of the ball.

Since you have that room for error both left and right, you have a total area of 13 1/4" to hit the 5 pin.

Things are different for a 10 pin.

You have the same 6 5/8" before you miss on the left, but only 2 3/4" on the right before the ball is off the edge of the lane.

Thats a total of 9 3/8" for a 10 pin.

You can add a small amount to that because it's possible to hit the 10 pin as the ball is barely falling off the edge of the lane.

The point is that it is still a very big target. Kinda like the big forest filled with all the trees that you keep bumping into.

[Cdolcejr]

I think that a lot of the problem with shooting ten pins comes from the stress involved in the fear of missing. The stress results in fast feet that results in late timing which results in misses to the right. Often bowlers realize this and slow their feet down too much which results in early timing and missing to the left. Consider this: When you shoot at a single five pin, you have the pin that is 4 3/4" wide, plus 8 1/2" on the left side (the bowling ball is 8 3/4" in diameter), and 8 1/2" on the right side - that is a target that is 21 3/4" wide! With a ten pin, you still have the 4 3/4" for the pin, 8 1/2" to the left of the pin, and 4 1/4" to the right (1/2 of the diameter of the ball). That is still a target that is 18" wide. To put this in perspective, a standard shoe box is 11 1/2" long. Could you hit a shoe box that is on the far right side of the pin deck? Of course you could!

Once you put the task in perspective, hopefully it will help you to free up your armswing and just let the ball go. Unless, of course, you are one of the 18% above that chooses to use a reactive ball to shoot the ten pin, in which case I have no sympathy for you at all. 99% of the top bowlers in the world throw plastic for a reason!

I think the fear of missing is what ultimately fuels my inconsistency. Instead of just throwing my normal shot, I'm putting way too much pressure on myself which ultimately causes me to miss the 10.

[bobforsaken]

I've been better at shooting the 10 pin since I started targeting the Pin itself and on my last step drawing a quick line to the arrows from that pin and hitting the mark.
Unfortunately when just "standing here and throwing to here" left me with days I was constantly missing left or constantly dumping it in the gutter because my walk path was changing.

I usually walk perpendicular to the foul line for strike shots and straight at the pin for spare shots.. The problem is I'm not consistent at walking straight toward the pin which changes dramatically the laydown point so I can't use the same target. (most often because I tend to drift more towards a perpendicular walk path like I do for my strike shots)

I'm only at about 80%, but that is a BIG improvement from before.

[vdubtx]

I think the fear of missing is what ultimately fuels my inconsistency. Instead of just throwing my normal shot, I'm putting way too much pressure on myself which ultimately causes me to miss the 10.

Exactly. You mind is your worst enemy, especially so on the lanes. Aslan can vouch for that first hand. The 5 voices in his head never shut up.

[J Anderson]

Amazing bad math.


The "perfect" shot has the ball hitting the 5 pin exactly in the center of the pin.

Lets calculate how much off of perfect you can be and still hit the 5 pin.

The pin is 4 3/4" wide, and the ball is 8 1/2" wide, so if you are more than 6 5/8" off of perfect, you miss the pin.

That's 1/2 the width of the pin, plus 1/2 the width of the ball.

Since you have that room for error both left and right, you have a total area of 13 1/4" to hit the 5 pin.

Things are different for a 10 pin.

You have the same 6 5/8" before you miss on the left, but only 2 3/4" on the right before the ball is off the edge of the lane.

Thats a total of 9 3/8" for a 10 pin.

You can add a small amount to that because it's possible to hit the 10 pin as the ball is barely falling off the edge of the lane.

"Consider this: When you shoot at a single five pin, you have the pin that is 4 3/4" wide, plus 8 1/2" on the left side (the bowling ball is 8 3/4" in diameter), and 8 1/2" on the right side - that is a target that is 21 3/4" wide! "

I've been seeing statements like this for years and have always disagreed with them. Thanks for a good explanation of how big the miss area really is.

Even using Mike's numbers, you have three times as much room to make a 10 pin as to hit the pocket.

The problem is that the house shot is designed to help funnel the ball into the pocket, which is why bowlers feel like they have to be more accurate to make the corner pins.

[Cdolcejr]

So in league last night... first 3 frames of the night- yep, you guessed it! TEN PINS! You can't make this stuff up. I made the first one and then missed the other 2. I threw them too far out and they went right in the gutter- partly because I was frustrated from throwing 3 pocket shots and leaving three 10's meanwhile the guys we were bowling against would hit the 3 pin and carry a strike every time somehow. I ultimately moved more inside on my strike ball and left only 2 ten pins the rest of the way. Not many nights do I start off with 2 opens in three frames and bowl 727. Overall, I converted 3 of 5 ten pins. I threw them with my urethane- it felt more controllable than my plastic blue dot. I think I just need to practice a little more with the urethane to get used to it and start aiming at the pin instead of the arrows.

[HowDoIHookAgain]

I tend to not use a spare ball to make my 10 pin unless there is absolutely no oil on the lanes and my ball just glides. I'll stand about 30 and shoot 15, and normally I can get the spare. But for a lot of stuff like this, practice can only do so much. Practicing a shot in bowling is only about 50% of the game. The other 50% is your mental game (not putting pressure on yourself, relaxing, trying not to force anything, etc.). Just throw your ball out to the mark, and let the ball do the rest.

[PauL757]

I don't own a spare ball yet. I flatten out my hand and don't lift with the fingers for the ten pin. Where I stand depends on what the lane conditions are like.

[SRB57]

Use to flatten my hand out but as the balls got stronger and I got older switched to plastic and currently using a roto grip own it spare ball. I also change my mark as lane conditions change.

[Stormed1]

Currently I am using a Seismic Desperado le drilled 60x5c30 @4k plus Storm Extra Shine and Brunswick Royal Shine polish. I stand 40 with my left foot and target 17 with my hand coming straight up the back of the ball. I will be drilling a Rebel tank with the pin under the bridge and the cg straight down for my fall leagues. It will azlso double as a ball for when they are toasted

[GeoLes]

Working with my coach. He has me stand far left and walk the 39th board. Open my stance towards my target marker and slide the ball flat through the third arrow. My release flat, wrist broken with thumb leading, other fingers trailing. (I have a tendency to add a little wrist rotation, so I focus on keeping the pinky forward-forcing me to not rotate the wrist.) This works well with my reactive ball. It turns just inside the first arrow and straight along the right gutter to the pin (of course, I am a rightie).

I have also had some sucess with the alternate approach of walking right at the pin and throwing it straight and flat. (same broken wirst, thumb leading release). The key for me is to imaging railroad tracks. I walk my feet straight along the left track that goes through the 4th arror, throwing the ball along the right track going through the 3rd arrow.

Now if I can just remember to simply pushoff at my mark, swing away from, then back down and forward through my target, instead of muscling the ball at the pin from a neutral arm postion, I would be consistent. (bad habits sneak in from everywhere)

[dougb]

Stand on 30th board, aim at 14 at the arrows, ( I tend to drift right with my feet ), flat release so the ball goes end over end.

Me too, and with a weak reactive. At least I start there and move left if the ball is hooking at the ends.

It's important for me to break my wrist, put my index finger directly against my middle finger and spread my pinky wide to really make sure the ball goes straight.

I also move farther back on the approach (about 6 inches) to get more speed and make sure I look at my target far down lane to get length.

Hope this helps.