I can't believe what I saw last night.

[Cdolcejr]

So last night in league, I saw one of the most obvious and blatant occurrences of sandbagging that I’ve ever seen in my life. This guy John who has a 205 average in the league had struck from the 3rd frame to the 9th frame of the third game. For the 10th frame, he then picked up a yellow house ball and chucked it straight into the channel. At first I couldn’t believe what I had just witnessed. I then realized that he probably was getting a pin out of the gutter (I was a few lanes down and couldn’t see too well). I decided to get a little closer to see his score. He had a gutter in the 10th on a 7 bagger and then threw a crappy shot with absolutely no intent to knock down pins thus opening the 10th.

I know its summer league and it’s supposed to be fun, but in all honesty I kept my distance because I was beyond furious. I asked others around me if they saw what I just saw- I thought I was hallucinating. Another guy saw it too. I ended up letting it go because if I went over there I would’ve flipped out. I’m thinking about talking to the league president but I know they won’t do anything about it.

My question to you is- what would you have done if you were in my shoes and witnessed this? Am I overreacting?

[John Anderson]

You are definitely over reacting and have anger issues if you are that mad over this.

Is it right? No. Should you be that mad? No. It's basically a minor form of cheating. If it's that big of a deal, kindly discuss it with the league president.

[fortheloveofbowling]

So last night in league, I saw one of the most obvious and blatant occurrences of sandbagging that I’ve ever seen in my life. This guy John who has a 205 average in the league had struck from the 3rd frame to the 9th frame of the third game. For the 10th frame, he then picked up a yellow house ball and chucked it straight into the channel. At first I couldn’t believe what I had just witnessed. I then realized that he probably was getting a pin out of the gutter (I was a few lanes down and couldn’t see too well). I decided to get a little closer to see his score. He had a gutter in the 10th on a 7 bagger and then threw a crappy shot with absolutely no intent to knock down pins thus opening the 10th.

I know its summer league and it’s supposed to be fun, but in all honesty I kept my distance because I was beyond furious. I asked others around me if they saw what I just saw- I thought I was hallucinating. Another guy saw it too. I ended up letting it go because if I went over there I would’ve flipped out. I’m thinking about talking to the league president but I know they won’t do anything about it.

My question to you is- what would you have done if you were in my shoes and witnessed this? Am I overreacting?

You were ticked because you are a bowler and not someone who just bowls and that has zero to do with average or talent. That crap flies in a have a ball league or some bar league but not a legitimate league with a higher concentration of BOWLERS. Fortunately, the area i live in would not tolerate that type of blatant sandbagging. I say blatant because even in a more competitive area you will still have people sandbag just not so obvious. Either way, wrong is wrong.

[Cdolcejr]

You are definitely over reacting and have anger issues if you are that mad over this.

Is it right? No. Should you be that mad? No. It's basically a minor form of cheating. If it's that big of a deal, kindly discuss it with the league president.


I probably do have anger issues and am overreacting, but I disagree that it is a minor form of cheating. For instance, if this guy's average should be 220 and he's keeping it down at 205, that's a significant difference.

Handicap is 90% of 230 in this league. That means if his average is 205 he will get an extra 22 pins per game {(230-205)X 0.9}. That equates to 66 pins over three games. Let says that he is in reality 220. {(230-220)X 0.9}= 9 handicap pins per game/ 27 games per series. The difference is 13 extra pins per game or approximately 40 pins per series. To beat this person, I would need to shoot 40 pins higher than him if he just shot his average of 205 each game. If he needs to bowl better than that to beat me, he is certainly capable.

[Cdolcejr]

You were ticked because you are a bowler and not someone who just bowls and that has zero to do with average or talent. That crap flies in a have a ball league or some bar league but not a legitimate league with a higher concentration of BOWLERS. Fortunately, the area i live in would not tolerate that type of blatant sandbagging. I say blatant because even in a more competitive area you will still have people sandbag just not so obvious. Either way, wrong is wrong.

That's what pissed me off- he wasn't like a 150 average or something, he's clearly one of the better, more experienced bowlers in the league and blatantly did that to cheat. With that said, I have no respect for him. It basically says to all the lesser experienced bowlers that it's ok to cheat.

[fortheloveofbowling]

That's what pissed me off- he wasn't like a 150 average or something, he's clearly one of the better, more experienced bowlers in the league and blatantly did that to cheat. With that said, I have no respect for him. It basically says to all the lesser experienced bowlers that it's ok to cheat.

So even at a 205 average he is not a bowler, just someone who bowls. Just to clarify, i have no problem with people who just bowl. I have a problem with people who cheat at bowling. Sorry you have to deal with people on your league like that.

[Cdolcejr]

Luckily its just a summer league and I won't have to deal with him for much longer.

[DukeDi]

I would be ticked at that as well. I'd be even more ticked if was to prevent or help another team in knockdowns or for quarter/half.

All you guys are right. There are some people who just bowl and aren't really bowlers. I couldn't do that if I tried. If I am Bowling well and have a shot to shoot 250+ I'm going to do my best to get there. The way I see it all evens out in the end.

There are the Sandbaggers out there that are tougher to spot, I really hate those guys.

[LyalC52]

i really don't understand all this sandbagging
how much can you actually profit from it? so you get $40 instead of $30 in a mixed handicap league

around here the only leagues that pay out a lot of money are scratch league

[Mike White]

i really don't understand all this sandbagging
how much can you actually profit from it? so you get $40 instead of $30 in a mixed handicap league

around here the only leagues that pay out a lot of money are scratch league

What about the last week?

Don't they have sweeps where you live?

In my Laughlin league I made about $1500 for those 3 games.

[LyalC52]

What about the last week?

Don't they have sweeps where you live?

In my Laughlin league I made about $1500 for those 3 games.

not any of the handicapped leagues that I know of

[Amyers]

not any of the handicapped leagues that I know of

We don't have sweeps here but even during the summer one of the Wednesday leagues pays out $1500. Fall leagues it's not hard to find ones paying out 5k for first. My win lose or drawl league paid out 2k and that's an individual award.

[Aslan]

Is it a USBC sanctioned league?

If so...then I complain to the League President that there's obvious sandbagging going on and ask that the person be formally warned and that further blatent cheating lead to his dismissal from the league.

I've seen this before...it annoys me. I've seen it on my own team (I posted about this a month or so ago). I don't do it. And I have no respect for those that do.

We have a bowler on Tuesdays that is easily...easily the most skilled bowler in the league. Is rev rate and power combination or in line with PBA pros. And each year he wins $400-$1200 at sweeps. And each year he sandbags during the season. But in all honesty...I can't complain too much...because last season despite his sandbagging efforts...he had the highest average in the league. It's hard to call the league leader in average a sandbagger. And after he cleared another $1000 last season...I said to myself..."that's okay. Someday...I'm going to be better than him...and I'm going to beat him at sweeps...and I'm going to enjoy, even more than the money, the fact that I caused him to waste 32 weeks of his life sandbagging...and get nothing out of it.

And the female bowler that has cleared $250-$750 each year at sweeps...she even admitted she sandbags during the season...that she doesn't really care until sweeps.

It's sad and lousy and makes ya really question the society we live in. But, yeah...if I saw something blatent...and it wasn't on my team...I'd report it to the league President. If it was on my own team...I probably would not be on that team the following season. But if it's a non-sanctioned league or no-tap...then that's just imaginary bowling anyways so it really doesn't matter.

[Mike White]

Is it a USBC sanctioned league?

If so...then I complain to the League President that there's obvious sandbagging going on and ask that the person be formally warned and that further blatent cheating lead to his dismissal from the league.

I've seen this before...it annoys me. I've seen it on my own team (I posted about this a month or so ago). I don't do it. And I have no respect for those that do.

We have a bowler on Tuesdays that is easily...easily the most skilled bowler in the league. Is rev rate and power combination or in line with PBA pros. And each year he wins $400-$1200 at sweeps. And each year he sandbags during the season. But in all honesty...I can't complain too much...because last season despite his sandbagging efforts...he had the highest average in the league. It's hard to call the league leader in average a sandbagger. And after he cleared another $1000 last season...I said to myself..."that's okay. Someday...I'm going to be better than him...and I'm going to beat him at sweeps...and I'm going to enjoy, even more than the money, the fact that I caused him to waste 32 weeks of his life sandbagging...and get nothing out of it.

And the female bowler that has cleared $250-$750 each year at sweeps...she even admitted she sandbags during the season...that she doesn't really care until sweeps.

It's sad and lousy and makes ya really question the society we live in. But, yeah...if I saw something blatent...and it wasn't on my team...I'd report it to the league President. If it was on my own team...I probably would not be on that team the following season. But if it's a non-sanctioned league or no-tap...then that's just imaginary bowling anyways so it really doesn't matter.

No-Tap, or non-sanctioned doesn't matter if you're playing for non-imaginary money.

[Aslan]

I got my first PBA check two weeks ago for finishing 2nd in a no-tap Pro -Am….so THAT no-tap thing…it mattered. But other than that…no.

[John Anderson]

I got my first PBA check two weeks ago for finishing 2nd in a no-tap Pro -Am….so THAT no-tap thing…it mattered. But other than that…no.

Congratulations on the winnings. It's fun to play no tap games sometimes to see the expression on peoples faces when you bowl an 800 series.

[fokai73]

I would of done nothing............it's summer league and he still will be using 205 (if that's his highest) at tourney's. I'll feel bad for his teammates if he threw games away.....