Would you be annoyed if Norm Duke or other A list pro giving you a unsolicited tip?

[bowl1820]

A user posted on another forum about how he bowled in a Pro-Am with Norm Duke.

Norm was watching him bowl and offered him a unsolicited "great tip on my arm swing" and thought that was great of him to do that.


Another user responded with "
"This kind of thing annoys me to no end"........................"It doesn't matter if it is Norm Duke or "House Bowler Joe". Keep your unsolicited suggestions and tips to yourself unless someone asks for your help."

So would you be annoyed if Norm or another "A" list pro gave you a unsolicited tip?


My thought:
I've bowled in plenty of Pro-am's , I was 2nd second place in one even. I've had pro's offer me unasked for advice, especially if they saw me struggling and happy they did.

To me that's part of what the Pro's are bowling in the pro-am for, to be ambassadors of the game. By Meeting the amateurs, offering advice, promote the sport.

[J Anderson]

While I answered no, it really would depend on the advice and the situation. If it were during a practice session, any tips would be most welcome. If it's during competition, it would have to be either very simple, or a suggestion about how to handle the lane conditions.

[vdubtx]

Those bowlers that get annoyed at unsolicited tips are the bowlers that think they are the gift to a bowling center by gracing their presence with it.

Any bowler that isn't at a professional level should welcome tips and suggestions from a Pro bowler. I know I certainly would. My game is by no means perfect and anything I can do to get it better I would welcome, listen, and implement.

[ChuckR]

I would accept and have gotten a suggestion from a pro during leagues. The suggestion was simple and straightforward. If a suggestion from any bowler that does well, pro or not, tweaks my game then I accept willingly.

[got_a_300]

I would welcome any tips and or advice from any A list Pro bowler
or even from a B list Pro bowler unsolicited or not as long as it is
something that will help out my game.

[rv driver]

It would seem that the ire some feel at being offered "free advice" is born of insecurity with one's game.

[Mgower]

Would take a tip from Norm in any situation. Hell, if I were lucky enough to bowl with him, I would have to restrain myself from peppering him with questions.

[ALazySavage]

This greatly depends on the situation and the type of advice being offered. In a pro-am scenario I feel that it is a general understanding that pros are likely to give advice to the amateur they are bowling with. Tournament and League bowling I don't think it is correct to give advice unsolicited; there are just too many mental issues that can arise from this - obviously this changes if the bowlers asks for the advice. During practice before someone gives advice they should ask what you are working on and then make the determination if it is acceptable to give their advice.

[Amyers]

Norm Duke or any other PBA member I would happily take advice from even unsolicited advice. I really don't mind if other bowlers offer advice just don't be offended if I ignore it or repeatedly belabor the point,

[John Anderson]

If a pro is trying to sincerely help me, I'd love to hear any advice whether I specifically asked for it or not. If it's house bowler joe, it's somewhat questionable whether I want the advice or not. If the other person is obviously better than me with regard to what they are giving me advice on, I have no problem with it and will accept the tips. If they aren't that great at what they are trying to tell me to do, I'd probably just brush it off and ignore their comments. I wouldn't get upset over it, but I wouldn't listen to them either.

[bowl1820]

Of note in the PBA Rules about pro-ams, The Pros are suppose to try and offer tips to the amateurs.

1.3 PBA Professional-Amateur Events (Pro-Ams).
Pro-Am events can be the most exciting part of the tournament for hundreds of amateurs. It is extremely important that customers and fans walk away with the feeling that the most valuable aspect of the experience was the opportunity to bowl with the
professionals. Members can help amateurs enjoy their experience by doing the following:

1.3.1 Shake Hands.
Shake hands; make introductions, converse with the amateurs and offer encouragement. A little conversation will go a long way toward creating a fan for life.

1.3.2 Bowling Tips.
Offer some helpful instructions or tips and take the time to explain technical points or terms that may be unfamiliar.

1.3.3 Trick Shots.
Perform "trick shots" when the Professional's scores do not count.

1.3.4 Thank Amateurs.
Thank the amateurs for the opportunity to have bowled with them when the game is over. Expressing appreciation

[fokai73]

I'd be happy to get advice from Norm Duke any day, and I'd also ask for him to take a picture with me.
:D

[Aslan]

To me that's part of what the Pro's are bowling in the pro-am for, to be ambassadors of the game. By Meeting the amateurs, offering advice, promote the sport.

Mudpuppy Cliff Note: THIS

Like others have said...like Bowl, I finished 2nd in my last Pro-Am and even got a check from the PBA (which I will eventually frame the stub...my first "winnings"). ANd I can say that in BOTH Pro Ams I've played in...nearly everyone there is anxiously hoping that the Pro will help them and offer them advice or maybe even just say something encouraging about their game. Most pros generally just say "nice shot" or "get em next time" or something like that...but I'd say 1 out of 6 times you bowl, one of them will either compliment an element of your game or off a suggestion.

I don't understand why a person would be upset by that. You're getting something for free...from one of the greatest the sport has ever known. Is that a "bad" thing? I mean, if your ego is so fragile that a free critique from Norm Duke makes you mad...who DO you listen to? Holy uncoachable Batman!! :cool:

[NewToBowling]

I think bowling is one of the few sports where they think they have it down and don't need any help. I mean it's just rolling a ball down and knocking pins right. Can't be that hard *sarcasm* They get insulted by others trying to assist them with this silly easy game.

And I did see the original thread the OP was referencing. Responses are kind of split half/half. I was quite surprised. No other sport would the response be this way when a HOF offers you some tips, unsolicited or not. Just be glad he offered it.

Kind of like Joe Montana giving monday-morning quarterbacks some tips at his camp.

[John Anderson]

Well I guess we all see the poll results are pretty clear. No need for an explanation of why. :D

[mc_runner]

If someone of Norm Duke's caliber gave me friendly advice I would take it in a heartbeat. Offering him advice? Probably not so much ;)

[Mike White]

The question then becomes, how far down the food chain do you go before the advice is unwanted?

How about someone who is competing in their first PBA tournament.
If he/she offers advice during the pro-am, is that acceptable?

How about just the average Joe/Jane, but is clearly better than the person who he/she is giving the advice too?

[fortheloveofbowling]

People should think of it as exchanging of ideas not advice. That way you can allow yourself to possibly learn from and help a wider range of players. Some people tend to take perceived advice as a slight to their ability. You just have to weed through the dialogue between your fellow competitors/teammates and sometimes you will come across different thought processes that may help you.

[Aslan]

The question then becomes, how far down the food chain do you go before the advice is unwanted?

How about someone who is competing in their first PBA tournament.
If he/she offers advice during the pro-am, is that acceptable?

How about just the average Joe/Jane, but is clearly better than the person who he/she is giving the advice too?

That's a good point Mr. White. Sounds like a line from Resovoir Dogs.

I can't really comment because I'm practically a sponge when it comes to bowling advice. I've taken it from WPBA and PBA50 players...and I've taken it from 185 average bowlers. I can't think of one instance where someone offered me advice and it was unwanted.

The only thing I run into with advice that is uncomfortable is when you're working on your game...based on input from your coach(es)...and you got another guy...maybe bronze level or something or just a high average bowler...and he's trying to get you to completely change your game and it goes against what you've been working on. It makes me uncomfortable because I hate to tell someone, "Yeah....thanks for the advice...but I'm trying something different." Some guys and even coaches take that kinda stuff personally if you're listening to other people's advice and not their's.

And even PBA level...I remember getting advice at a clinic from John Gaines...I think he's a USBC hall of famer...and the advice kinda contradicted other adivice I was getting from even higher level coaches. Same thing happened with Hall of Famer Barry Asher. When you get to that level of accomplishment (their's)...you almost feel obligated to do everything they say...because, hey...these guys are the USBC and PBA Hall of Fame for crying out loud.

I look at it like this:

Every coach is a train/engine. You can choose from all kinds of trains...bigger trains, smaller trains, fast trains, or even some older trains that aren't as fancy or don't run quite as well. Some of the trains are on the same track...some are on other tracks. Once you start getting instruction on a regular basis...you're kinda committing to a certain track/route. You can switch trains if ya want. You can even decide to get off that track and find another train on another track. But if you're committed to a certain track/route...you kinda ignore the trains on the other tracks. It doesn't mean they're bad coaches or don't know what they're talking about...but even the best train is useless if it's on a different track.

I also have preached that if you are going to take lessons...then you need to commit to not only opening your mind to new ideas...but committing to those ideas (or many of them) even if you don't see immediate results. People want their average to jump from 150 to 220 by just taking a lesson...and it doesn't work that way.

But anyway, that's my thoughts. If Norm Duke said, "Hey man, I notice that your first step is a little akward...have you ever tried just sliding the foot instead of lifting it up?" I'd be ecstatic that Norm Duke is even talking to me. It would easily be top 5 in terms of life events this year. And even had I not already been working on that...I sure will if Norm tells me to. But on the flipside, if Norm says, "Ya know, you should try slowing your approach down and add a pause after each step..." then I'll 'consider' that...but may not actually do it because it's against something else my coach and I have been working on.

And to Mike's point...hasn't virtually everyone on this site that has seen my videos...haven't they all made the comment that my first step was too silly/crazy? Yup. So why didn't I listen to them? Why did it take a coach suggesting to fix it? Well, I can I can only speak for myself...but I'd say 30% is that people on this site aren't really coaches...they sure aren't Norm Duke...not even VDubtx. But 70% is just that I never really believed it was an issue. We never really tied it into a timing problem. And we never came up with possible solutions. In coaching, we notice an issue (timing in this case)...then we look at multiple ways to try and fix it...and the first step comes up as a potential issue...and then solutions are offered. Once I could tie that step to an actual problem (timing)...then I was willing to address it.

[Aslan]

Sidenote-
I ONLY give advice to lower average bowlers...and usually only if they ask.

I'd never consider giving advice to Rob or VDub or MWhite or even Iceman. Even if I see glaring weaknesses in their approach or other issues...it's just not my place to comment when I'm talking to someone older, potentially wiser, and certainly better at bowling.

[Mike White]

That's a good point Mr. White. Sounds like a line from Resovoir Dogs.

I can't really comment because I'm practically a sponge when it comes to bowling advice.

The problem with being a sponge, is if a little pressure is applied to you, you lose everything you've absorbed.

[Blomer]

I would accept their advice! Anything to improve.

[Aslan]

The problem with being a sponge, is if a little pressure is applied to you, you lose everything you've absorbed.

Well played.

And true.