accepting your release and rev rate...for the long time bowlers out there...

[fokai73]

If you have a good fit, a good approach, a good consistent release, and you can only produce 250-280 rev rate.....I say that's good enough! Work on being accurate instead..... Trying to gain more revs may do more harm than good. Likewise, most league bowlers DO NOT BOWL ON SPORT SHOTS PERIOD!! So they don't really need the revs like most people think they do. I have only 300 rpms, but I can compete with the regional guys on sport and/or tourney's. Actually, I compete with myself and the pins.....anyway, the last thing you should worry about in your physical game is your release. if you do everything right from the start of your approach, your revs will increase.

I see many youtube videos where someone will say they have 300 rpms, or even 375 rpms, and it's not true. Many HOF on tour don't have 375 RPMs. If people would be honest with themselves, their game will improve IMHO. Just be yourself this season and improve your game. be like Macgyver almost... do the best of what you have, and what you have is your best - your revrate.

[Jaescrub]

I cant say I'm 100% with you on this. I have low revs and I do see where it hurts my game. I'm limited in what I can do on the lanes with my rev rate. If I was able to adjust up and down then I would end up a better bowler. Nothing wrong with spending a little practice time working on things your not good at. That's like saying a Guy in MMA has killer standup, fights mostly others with the same style so he needs not work on his ground game. One has to always work on all aspects of the game.

[RobLV1]

It's true that many Hall of Famers don't have high rev rates, however they became Hall of Famers before the introduction of reactive resin balls that do require a high rev rate if you want to be competitive on sport patterns or even on house shots where you are competing against high rev players. I have to disagree with you when you say that the last thing that you should worry about in your physical game is your release. I totally agree with a statement that I heard several years ago: "There are 11 things involved in the physical game of bowling. Each of the first 10 contributes 5% to the success of the bowler. The release contributes the other 50%!"

[billf]

I agree with two of you lol
If everything leading to the release is good the ball speed and rev rate will be increased naturally. A great release with other things screwed up won't lead to any kind of accuracy or consistency.
The current hall of famers are pre-reactive era. Two low rev players have been successful since the, WRWJr and Norm Duke. Most lefties have a good rev rate but usually use a low axis rotation.
Now being able to control your rev rate by being able to adjust axis rotation and tilt, then you have something.

[fokai73]

I'm not sure you folks understand where I'm getting at....I'm talking about long time season house bowlers......

So, if Joe bowler has 10 or 20 years under his belt, you honestly think you can make him gain 50+ more revs without harm to his game or to himself? A classic type bowler can't have the cranker type revs after years of bowling the same way. Sometimes, too much time is spent on the release trying do things their body doesn't allow instead of other parts of the physical game that would benefit the release. If there's issues at the back of the approach and/or anywhere in the approach leading to the release, the release will have issues as well. you all know that... Like I said, having a "good release" is important, not having 50 to 100 more revs than your average rpm's - which is impossible for most to achieve.

I've seen well known and top coaches over the years, all are good, but only one explained it better about the physical game and the release. I'm not the one that said "the release is the last thing to worry about", my coach did..plus, his athletes are winning on tour. Likewise, when I applied my experience in Martial arts (20+yrs) and the job i used to do with pro athletes, it made me wonder a lot about my physical game in bowling. it was only when I met this coach who worked with me, that, what I had pondered about for a year or two before seeing him, he had answered without me asking. To have a good ending, a good beginning is very important.

[billf]

I get what you're saying. Mark Baker has said many times, "I've never fixed a release by working directly on the release. All I do is fix the issues leading to the release and the release takes care of itself."
I've often said rev rate is the most misunderstood and over rated aspect in bowling.

[bowl1820]

Ron Clifton lists some common mistakes bowlers make that go along with this:


Now here are some mistakes that are more unique to middle average bowlers.:

6. They try to rev the ball beyond their level of ability: The best bowlers in the world that have a fairly high rev rate accomplish that rev rate with technique not brute muscles. Bowlers that have not learned the technique hurt their game when they try to throw more revs than come natural.

7. They try to hook the ball beyond their level of ability: This is the same mistake as #6 above. There is nothing wrong with trying to learn the technique of hooking the ball and you should work on it during practice. Just don’t try to do it when the scores really count until you are proficient at it.

Remember that revs and hook must happen with very little effort on your part or you are not doing it right. It is not an easy thing for most people to learn so expect it to take some time.

[RobLV1]

These are good points. FYI I just submitted my latest article for BTM this afternoon. It deals with working the inside of the ball. It should be posted within the next couple of weeks. A better release and a higher rev rate are possible, but you had better be willing to put in the time to get them.

[Aslan]

I struggle with this as well. I can see where Jaescrub is coming from.

People claim that bowling on a THS is so easy you don't need to practice, you don't need a ton of revs...just repeat your shot with accuracy. Yet, I did that for 2 years and could never break into the 170s in average.

And most coaches I went to...they were of the same school as Mark Baker..."don't worry about release...lets focus on approach, timing, ball fit, etc... and all these things will eventually fix the release." Well, they never did. Finally I switched to 15lb balls and actually FELT my fingers going through the ball and suddenly it just CLICKED what everyone was talking about regarding coming THROUGH THE BALL. And now, even though it's still early, I'm able to do so much more than I could before...I'm able to make slight changes to axis rotation based on what I'm seeing in ball movement.

On the OTHER HAND...I also agree that one of the biggest problems most bowlers is make is they TRY TOO HARD to rev the ball. My coach has been working on an effortless swing and I know other coaches have also discussed this at length. So many bowlers have become thumbless bowlers, crankers, and 2-handed...and their swings are the opposite of effortless. I see some of them actually getting air under their shoes as they jump up and rev the ball. Unless you're Mark Roth circa 15-30 years ago...you're not going to have a consistent release if you try THAT hard to rev the ball.

And there is the conundrum. Sure...we can all throw a straight shot at the headpin...we can all go back and watch footage of Dick Carter and those guys...very minimal back end movement...straighter shots. But remember...the averages back then were 50-100 pins lower than they are now. Players won tournamaments 197-189. Now if you can't average 190+ you're considered sub-par. And you simply can't get to that 210-225 average without creating more angle and increasing your strike rate.

Just like "working the inside of the ball". I haven't read Rob's article yet...and my coach has actually advised against focusing too much on working the inside of the ball...but it's fairly clear on the National Tour, as Randy Pederson has mentioned multiple times...virtually every tour pro works the inside of the ball. CAN you be successful throwing a straighter shot? Sure. Watch the PBA50...much straighter shots...not everyone working the inside of the ball...but there's a reason why most of them abandoned the national tour in favor of the senior circuit...and some will just be flat out honest that they simply can't compete with the kids anymore...they may get lucky...but as much of a legend as Johnny Petraglia is...would he be able to make > 50% of the cuts on the National Tour right now??? No chance.

Overall...I disagree that you "accept" your sub-par rev rate. I disagree that you accept a sub-par ANYTHING!! Unless you have injuries holding you back...I think we ALL should be looking for pieces of our game that are sub-par and improving those items. When you start winning major titles...then maybe you can rest a bit and say, "Okay...no more sub par anythings...I'm good." But short of that...get to WORK!!!

And yes...I know virtually NOBODY on this site is ever going to be bowling in the PBA...but I also think that this mentality of, "Bowling is just recreational and for fun so just accept that you're average and have fun" is one of the things ruining the SPORT of bowling. People like me are considered "weird" because I actually have goals, and work towards those goals, and practice, and get coaching, and enter tournaments, and own like over....well...I won't go there because that is borderline weird...but STILL!!!

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: If your coach says your release is fine and has other stuff for you to work on...save the release for later. But if your release is the main thing killing your game or keeping you from getting to the next level...by all means work on your release.

[Mike White]

I struggle with this as well. I can see where Jaescrub is coming from.

People claim that bowling on a THS is so easy you don't need to practice, you don't need a ton of revs...just repeat your shot with accuracy. Yet, I did that for 2 years and could never break into the 170s in average.

If what you've tried hasn't worked for you, is that proof that it can't work for anyone else?


And most coaches I went to...they were of the same school as Mark Baker..."don't worry about release...lets focus on approach, timing, ball fit, etc... and all these things will eventually fix the release." Well, they never did. Finally I switched to 15lb balls and actually FELT my fingers going through the ball and suddenly it just CLICKED what everyone was talking about regarding coming THROUGH THE BALL. And now, even though it's still early, I'm able to do so much more than I could before...I'm able to make slight changes to axis rotation based on what I'm seeing in ball movement.

They probably put the release last because it's hard to tell if your release is improving, when your footwork is bad.



On the OTHER HAND...I also agree that one of the biggest problems most bowlers is make is they TRY TOO HARD to rev the ball. My coach has been working on an effortless swing and I know other coaches have also discussed this at length. So many bowlers have become thumbless bowlers, crankers, and 2-handed...and their swings are the opposite of effortless. I see some of them actually getting air under their shoes as they jump up and rev the ball. Unless you're Mark Roth circa 15-30 years ago...you're not going to have a consistent release if you try THAT hard to rev the ball.


You see a lot of bowlers over emphasis the release to the point where they have a severe head bob as they let go of the ball, or their arm crosses in front of their face during the follow thru.



And there is the conundrum. Sure...we can all throw a straight shot at the headpin...we can all go back and watch footage of Dick Carter and those guys...very minimal back end movement...straighter shots. But remember...the averages back then were 50-100 pins lower than they are now. Players won tournamaments 197-189. Now if you can't average 190+ you're considered sub-par. And you simply can't get to that 210-225 average without creating more angle and increasing your strike rate.


Who is Dick Carter?

I've heard of Don Carter, Dick Weber, and even Dick Clark, but who is Dick Carter?

Back in the day people were content with the straight shot because the competition couldn't do better.

There wasn't enough friction between the ball and the lane to generate anywhere close to what the balls can do now.

But it also meant that all parts of your game got tested, and if you had a weak area, it was hard to compete.

That part there is what is wrong with the sport of bowling.

It's sad when a guy has 8 strikes, and 4 spares, and loses to a guy that has 10 strikes, and 2 opens.



Just like "working the inside of the ball". I haven't read Rob's article yet...and my coach has actually advised against focusing too much on working the inside of the ball...but it's fairly clear on the National Tour, as Randy Pederson has mentioned multiple times...virtually every tour pro works the inside of the ball. CAN you be successful throwing a straighter shot? Sure. Watch the PBA50...much straighter shots...not everyone working the inside of the ball...but there's a reason why most of them abandoned the national tour in favor of the senior circuit...and some will just be flat out honest that they simply can't compete with the kids anymore...they may get lucky...but as much of a legend as Johnny Petraglia is...would he be able to make > 50% of the cuts on the National Tour right now??? No chance.


Working the inside of the ball is mostly for those who throw a high friction ball, at high revs, high speed, and work the inside so they won't generate a large axis of rotation.

The less the ball jumps left at the break point, the easier it is to control.

The higher the rev rate, the less axis of rotation the ball loses during the hook phase.

So if you aren't going to lose much axis of rotation, and 6 degrees is plenty of angle into the pins, you want to start with a fairly low axis of rotation at the release.

Pete Weber does't work the inside of the ball, he starts with a large axis of rotation, he doesn't throw the high rev rate, so his ball loses a lot of axis of rotation.



Overall...I disagree that you "accept" your sub-par rev rate. I disagree that you accept a sub-par ANYTHING!! Unless you have injuries holding you back...I think we ALL should be looking for pieces of our game that are sub-par and improving those items. When you start winning major titles...then maybe you can rest a bit and say, "Okay...no more sub par anythings...I'm good." But short of that...get to WORK!!!


Work on the problem that would give the best feedback as you improve it.

Then move on to the next problem.

[Tony]

Dick Carter .... brother of Don Carter? possibly the greatest bowler ever!

[Tony]

I'm not sure you folks understand where I'm getting at....I'm talking about long time season house bowlers......

So, if Joe bowler has 10 or 20 years under his belt, you honestly think you can make him gain 50+ more revs without harm to his game or to himself? A classic type bowler can't have the cranker type revs after years of bowling the same way. Sometimes, too much time is spent on the release trying do things their body doesn't allow instead of other parts of the physical game that would benefit the release. If there's issues at the back of the approach and/or anywhere in the approach leading to the release, the release will have issues as well. you all know that... Like I said, having a "good release" is important, not having 50 to 100 more revs than your average rpm's - which is impossible for most to achieve.

I've seen well known and top coaches over the years, all are good, but only one explained it better about the physical game and the release. I'm not the one that said "the release is the last thing to worry about", my coach did..plus, his athletes are winning on tour. Likewise, when I applied my experience in Martial arts (20+yrs) and the job i used to do with pro athletes, it made me wonder a lot about my physical game in bowling. it was only when I met this coach who worked with me, that, what I had pondered about for a year or two before seeing him, he had answered without me asking. To have a good ending, a good beginning is very important.


I can see your point, I have been bowling for a long time and have never tried to get tons of revs on the ball, and see no good reason to try to do that now. Besides the increased strain on the arm/wrist, I don't really see myself bowling on the tour or even tournaments.
I can attest having went to two sessions with a gold coach he has not mentioned doing anything with release as of yet, the first session was mostly posture and approach and the second spare shooting.

Yes I agree more revs could boost my game

[billf]

I've actually worked to cut down my rev rate. Also always work on adjusting axis rotation to be able to change more consistently, seamlessly.
As Mike stated I started working the inside of the ball after reducing my finger pitches. I was too rev dominant. Reducing pitch helped with the hand pain but the revs came back. Staying inside the ball helps to keep my axis rotation down when I move left of the middle.

[foreverincamo]

I'm still fighting whether or not to increase my rev rate, or just say screw it and work on timing, speed control, and consistency. I may just be too old to try to get more revs.

[RobLV1]

I'm still fighting whether or not to increase my rev rate, or just say screw it and work on timing, speed control, and consistency. I may just be too old to try to get more revs.

I hope I never get too old to learn... anything!

[Aslan]

If what you've tried hasn't worked for you, is that proof that it can't work for anyone else?
No. But I play the numbers. If 95% of the PBA Tour works the inside of the ball and only 2% of bad social bowlers do...stats are stats. Yes, everyone is always reminding us that there is no "right way" in bowling...but I don't buy that. I think there IS a right way...but it's like a bullseye target...you can be a little to the right, left, above, below...and still hit the center. But if you get too far AWAY from the "right way"....you'll have problems that will cost you depending on the level you play at.



Who is Dick Carter?
I've heard of Don Carter, Dick Weber, and even Dick Clark, but who is Dick Carter?
Well...I was going to type Dick Weber...but after typing "Dick" I thought Don Carter would be a better option so I typed "Carter". Whats funny is, I bet 70% of the people on the site read that and have no idea that Dick Weber and Don Carter exist...and that Dick Carter is imaginary.


It's sad when a guy has 8 strikes, and 4 spares, and loses to a guy that has 10 strikes, and 2 opens.
I agree totally. But I'm biased because I'm almost always the one that is on the losing side of that scenario.

[Aslan]

I hope I never get too old to learn... anything!

I'm glad I've generally gotten too old for acne.

I'm also one of the rare males that is looking forward to being too old for sex. I think if I got to the age where I just didn't really care about it that much...I'd have a lot more time, money, and effort to do fun stuff....and I'd be able to just dress like a Bum...maybe put on some winter weight....I mean, if you're not trying to impress or land or keep a lady....kinda frees you up to just relax and enjoy life. No more plays, operas, suits/ties outside of work (except weddings and funerals), no need for a nice car, no more having to watch annoying crap like cooking shows, no more potpourri, no more over-priced bar drinks, or jewelry, or that mad last minute scramble to try and find a Valentines Day gift....or a date for Valentines Day...etc... You'd rarely ever have to go to the mall...and NEVER have to go to IKEA or Trader Joes...or eat Tofu...or fondue...or sushi and you get fart all day if ya want...no need to hold it in until you practically have a stomach ache.

So, yeah, I'm looking forward to becoming too old for some things.

[mc_runner]

Going to leapfrog on what Ron Clifton had to say above... up to a season ago, I tried to force revs often. I stopped forcing, started projecting more and coming through the ball, and my revs increased (from about 300 to 350 on the tables that bowl1820 has posted in the past). "try" to put less revs on the ball, and more end up happening... weird how that works :P

[foreverincamo]

RobLV1, sometimes it's not age that limits what we learn. We all have our physical limits and getting more revs may not be in my reach.