For the coaches/experienced bowlers...how would you coach...

[Aslan]

I might meet up with a teammate this week or next week to "practice".

She is an 87-97 average "bowler"....so we're talking about as RAW as it gets here...which is the ONLY reason (other than womanizing) that I am even considering offering my "coaching skills" (which are very limited).

So, the first rule is...not to answer the post with, "Tell her to find a real coach." That is not helpful and also counter-productive towards my womanizing efforts...AND not very supportive of my coaching skills...AND not likely to happen. So either I TRY to coach her a little bit...get her to at least do some basics properly...or she just keeps doing what she's doing.

So the question is...what should I try to focus on or accomplish in that first "lesson/practice"?

I was just planning on using the youth coaching manual I got when I took the USBC Youth Coaching class last year...sort of work from the beginning...but any pointers would be appreciated.

And no...I'm not entering the coaching profession...at all...I just am trying to help a young lady bowl better as best I can.

[billf]

First let's be honst, you're trying to get in her pants.
Second, start at the beginnng. Proper stance, four step approach, typical step with ball side foot and push away the same distance and straight out with the ball. Be sure to show spine tilt and proper cross over step. Show her how it allows the swing to be under the head so she can hit what she is looking at. Once she feels comfortable with this then explain to not think about swinging the ball but rather walk past the ball. Almost as if the ball stays in the same place from the push to the downswing. It doesn't but kind of feels that way. That helps prevent muscling the swing.
BTW, good luck with #1

[NewToBowling]

Pics?

[Aslan]

First let's be honst, you're trying to get in her pants.

BTW, good luck with #1

Well...YAH....DUH.

But I'd still help her even if she wasn't in my wheelhouse. Getting her to get up in the 120s/130s with her handicap might actually help us win the league.

I just always wonder with adults, if it's better to start with the most simple, 1-step...or if you just jump right into 4-step. But I'll keep those items in mind when/if this happens.

Thanks.

[Aslan]

Pics?

Just imagine a gal that is attractive, but just enough extra pounds where she might actually consider downgrading to me. That's the general rule when imagining my "ladies".

Or in nature terms...I'm looking for a quality gazelle to pounce on and devour...but it can't be a really fast or even normally fast gazelle. It needs to be a gazelle with a limp or a bum hoof or something....still a high quality meal....just not quality enough to actually be able to get away.

[NewToBowling]

Just imagine a gal that is attractive, but just enough extra pounds where she might actually consider downgrading to me. That's the general rule when imagining my "ladies".

Or in nature terms...I'm looking for a quality gazelle to pounce on and devour...but it can't be a really fast or even normally fast gazelle. It needs to be a gazelle with a limp or a bum hoof or something....still a high quality meal....just not quality enough to actually be able to get away.

Just don't repeat what you just typed to her :)

[zdawg]

Teach her to bowl 2 handed, I know its your favorite style :cool:

[Aslan]

Teach her to bowl 2 handed, I know its your favorite style :cool:

I will NOT.

I had a much funnier/wittier response but I fear it may have been a bit "racy" for this family oriented website.

Besides, I have a rule against dating 2-handed bowlers...unless they're really hot. Kinda like my "no cats" rule.

[zdawg]

Besides, I have a rule against dating 2-handed bowlers...

I figured if anyone did have such a rule it would be you :D

[Amyers]

Why is it I just know a spread sheet is involved somewhere :rolleyes:

[classygranny]

Just one comment on the 4 step approach. Take a few minutes and watch her start to walk a few times. Like when she starts for the door, just kidding....walking to the restroom, to the snack bar, or the settee area to the approach. Assuming she is right handed...if she starts off with her left foot most of the time (or all of the time) then you would be best served to start with a 5 step approach. We as human beings, being creatures of habit, tend to start our walk out on the same foot most of the time. Letting that be the natural progression on the bowling approach will simplify some of the footwork. She would then need to start the feet prior to the ball, rather than together.

[Blacksox1]

Just one comment on the 4 step approach. Take a few minutes and watch her start to walk a few times. Like when she starts for the door, just kidding....walking to the restroom, to the snack bar, or the settee area to the approach. Assuming she is right handed...if she starts off with her left foot most of the time (or all of the time) then you would be best served to start with a 5 step approach. We as human beings, being creatures of habit, tend to start our walk out on the same foot most of the time. Letting that be the natural progression on the bowling approach will simplify some of the footwork. She would then need to start the feet prior to the ball, rather than together.

classygranny makes a very good point. One that I did not consider, but will remember. :)

In teaching, do not work on too many new items at once. Work at the pace of the student and be patient.

[Tony]

I will NOT.

I had a much funnier/wittier response but I fear it may have been a bit "racy" for this family oriented website.

Besides, I have a rule against dating 2-handed bowlers...unless they're really hot. Kinda like my "no cats" rule.

So wouldn't the logical first step be to find out if she has a cat, likes cats , wants a cat or maybe a herd of cats ?

[Tony]

Where to start when coaching is determining what her biggest problem is, (aside from the problem of having much older guys hitting on her :) )
One buddy of mine who is a small guy with a 3 step approach went to a gold coach and we figured he would suggest a 4 or 5 step approach since his ball speed is about 8mph, but the coach being way more perceptive than the average guy realized soon after he spoke with him that he would not be able to easily adapt to such a change instead kept the 3 step and had him raise his starting position to gain more speed.
So keep in mind changing her approach may or may not be a good idea depending on the type of person she is.

Last of all don't feel too bad if you can't radically improve her game in a short period of time, the buddy of mine has a lower average now than when he went to the coach....of course he only took one lesson, because the coach only changed a few things he took it as everything else was just awesome, sounds good but when you avg 135 , everything is probably not awesome.
Good Luck, maybe she'll introduce you to her cat !

[Amyers]

Footwork and timing are the basics and keep it at that. Maybe some very basic work on targeting. Take it slow don't let your frustration show. Good Luck

[JasonNJ]

Coaching beginners can be tough and it really depends on the person on how coachable they are. I have a women on my Weds Night Mixed league she is bowling with a 8 lb house ball with a 100 avg. I've been trying to give her some tips with timing and her arm swing so she at least gets her ball going straight in the middle of the lane. She'll then throw some shots completely ignoring the things I said and comes back to me and tells me what I told her to do isn't working and that she is going to bowl normal. So I just gave up, now I just say good try and give her a high five.

[Aslan]

So I just gave up, now I just say good try and give her a high five.

Yeah. I had a gal on my Wednesday team last season...same thing.

"What am I doing wrong!?"
"Try to stand with your left foot on center and just throw over the 3rd arrow from the right."

She then proceeds to go right back to standing 25-30 and throwing the ball cross lane and getting a 10-pin for a -/1 frame. :(

So after a couple times of that...now I just say, "Good job. Remember to follow-through." no matter what she does.

[Jessiewoodard57]

I had my Radical Score plugged and re-drilled for my Daughter in law. She had practiced with the ball on dryer lanes and did well with it. I was coaching her as where to start and release the ball but I could not get her to listen (this was during league play) when a woman from another team came over to our pair and told to her ignore me and bowl the way you want. Now mind you this woman does not know the first thing in the world about throwing a hook! I got mad told the woman off and told my daughter in law I was done helping. She continued to line up wrong and throw the ball so far left she was hitting 7 pins all night. Finally I said lanes have changed go back you your first blood and then she returned to hitting the pocket. I called the woman over after league and explained since she threw a straight ball she had no idea what we where trying to correct. I explained that the ball my daughter in law was throwing use to be my ball therefore I knew how it reacted. She said well she was getting mad at you that's why I said something. I told to ask her what she was mad at and my daughter told her it was herself for not hitting the mark and the woman for jumping in and mouthing off making thing worst. Some people!

[Amyers]

My youngest daughter bowls competitively (tournaments and competitions) my oldest daughter does not.

I've had people complain because I'm "getting on to her" when she's up by 50 pins against their kid. it's hard to tell another parent "well my kids actually a 100 pins better than your and she's just goofing off" diplomatically.

I've has parents complain that I treat her league as competitive? Lets see I pay a weekly fee in the expectation that my kid is better than yours and I expect her to win scholarship money. Yeah that's competitive. I don't try and force that on any of the other kids and wouldn't unless they expressed that desire.

I've also had other parents remark because I get onto my youngest but let my eldest make the same mistakes over and over. I treat their bowling completely differently my eldest is there to have fun and make friends. My youngest dreams of competing at the higher levels of bowling. Why would I treat them the same when they have different goals? If I treated my oldest and got onto her the way I do my youngest she wouldn't have fun and most likely would quit. If I let me youngest get away with half effort or ignoring her when she wants help she would quickly become frustrated.

People tend to look at the world through their own narrow views.

[billf]

Very advance but with a funny story

I put a dime on a board at the arrows. Instructions; hit the dime and the pocket. Once she was able to do this 90% of the time I added a quarter at the breakpoint. This was obviously much harder. So here is this tiny teen blowing the snot out of the pins and getting mad as heck. She kept missing the quarter on strikes and not hitting the pocket when she hit the quarter.
At one point she went GRRR and the tips of her ears were turning red. I knew she was mad and why. One of the house shot heroes came over and asked why she was so mad about striking.
"I missed at the breakpoint" she said
"So what, you still struck so what does it matter?"
"Averaging 230 on a house shot doesn't mean squat if I can't average 230 plus on a sport shot. I'm not here to bowl in fun leagues I'm here to try and become the best. In competition you take any strike you can get but in practice the point is to get it right. My alignment is off, I know it and it ticks me off that I haven't figured out the correct alignment for this pattern yet."

Now this jerk keeps running his mouth for a good half hour about what a waste of time it was and being "just a girl" she would never get anywhere. She got fed up, took a 20 out of her wallet and asked if he wanted to bowl. When she started to say what the pattern was he interrupted and said it didn't matter. She beat him 242-173.
Two weeks later we get there and he is practicing, with a piece of tape at the arrows lol

[Amyers]

Very advance but with a funny story

I put a dime on a board at the arrows. Instructions; hit the dime and the pocket. Once she was able to do this 90% of the time I added a quarter at the breakpoint. This was obviously much harder. So here is this tiny teen blowing the snot out of the pins and getting mad as heck. She kept missing the quarter on strikes and not hitting the pocket when she hit the quarter.
At one point she went GRRR and the tips of her ears were turning red. I knew she was mad and why. One of the house shot heroes came over and asked why she was so mad about striking.
"I missed at the breakpoint" she said
"So what, you still struck so what does it matter?"
"Averaging 230 on a house shot doesn't mean squat if I can't average 230 plus on a sport shot. I'm not here to bowl in fun leagues I'm here to try and become the best. In competition you take any strike you can get but in practice the point is to get it right. My alignment is off, I know it and it ticks me off that I haven't figured out the correct alignment for this pattern yet."

Now this jerk keeps running his mouth for a good half hour about what a waste of time it was and being "just a girl" she would never get anywhere. She got fed up, took a 20 out of her wallet and asked if he wanted to bowl. When she started to say what the pattern was he interrupted and said it didn't matter. She beat him 242-173.
Two weeks later we get there and he is practicing, with a piece of tape at the arrows lol

I like that I'm surprised it taught him anything though. He must be smarter than the average house moron most of those would have chalked it up to "bad luck" and went on their way

[billf]

She has been coming in after the Tuesday mens scratch league and bowling pot games and winning quite a bit more than she has lost. I just laugh when the ego bowlers say she wouldn't be able to handle transition. It's like they don't believe there is any transition in the tournaments she bowls even with the boys on the same pair.

[Aslan]

Some people!

I've seen it happen both ways. Same thing in golf.

Thats why in both golf and bowling there is the unspoken rule that if people don't ASK for help; the rule is not to give it.

And thats not easy, especially for men and women. When men hear women complaining (which they do routinely), our (male) natural response is to try and FIX their problem for them. Thats our historic and evolutionary response. The TROUBLE is...women (as pointless as it seems to men)...sometimes just like to complain about stuff...and they don't want men to help them fix it...they just want men to listen and care and say "there, there" and leave it at that.

For those that think the above is just male chauvinistic ramblings by a self-proclaimed womanizer....while you are somewhat correct...realize that the above was actually something I learned reading books about male/female relationships and NOT something I came up with myself. To me, it still makes relatively little sense to be honest.

But I mention it (above) because I run into it in almost EVERY league I play in. There is a person, usually a woman but it can also be a man, that spends the entire game...throwing a 80-150 score...and complaining that they can't figure things out and sometimes they even ask in a general way (not to a specific person), "what am I doing wrong?" It's very difficult, especially for men, especially for people that want to see people do well and enjoy the sport even more; it is very difficult to just smile and ignore that question.

SO...we "help". And I've found that in 95% of the scenarios...they don't listen. They may "try" it...ONCE...and thats it. And it doesn't matter if they are GOOD or BAD bowlers. Both listen equally horribly. I've even told very high average bowlers...about an adjustment I'd recommend...they've DONE it...struck with a perfect pocket hit...then proceeded to not do it again and have a horrible game.

I think theres two reasons for this, but Mark Baker summed it up best during my first lesson with him when he asked about my average and I asked him what was harder to coach, beginners or more advanced bowlers and he gave a long response but during that response he said he doesn't get a lot of bowlers coming to him that average in the 150-180 range. He said that beginners that are bad and want to get better understand the value of lessons. The more advanced bowlers with specific and sometimes lofty goals understand the value of constant improvement and refinement and coaching.

But for most league bowlers in the 150-180 range...every now and then they throw a 220+ game and figure, "I don't need lessons...I just need to throw more games like that one." League bowlers on house patterns...intentionally never leave their home center, they avoid tournaments and sport leagues, and they don't bother to get lessons or do research on bowling...they figure they got it figured out.

So, when you try to help most bowlers...they might try it...then they watch YOU throw a bad shot and immediately think, "well, he isn't that great...so I shouldn't listen to him" or they try whatever you suggest and it "feels different"...so thats all it takes to abandon it and go back to what they used to do...even if it was entirely unsuccessful.

And I've had other bowlers come over and try to "help"...and give horribly ridiculous advice...I've had people just say, "you do whatever is comfortable and ignore all the others" and both irritate me...but at the end of the day...it's not going to matter.

The whole reason I asked the question (besides assistance with potentially getting laid)...is that I have a secret tendency to overthink things....some of you may not know that...but I can't translate my insane approach to a new, casual bowler. I would have the tendency to bombard them with an enormous amount of information. I know thats not going to work. But since I've been trained how to adjust for YOUTH and not ADULTS...I also don't want to go the other direction and start teaching her one-step approaches and stuff that you might "skip" for an adult bowler.

[NYMIKE]

Update us on this, both and and off the lanes.

[Aslan]

Update us on this, both and and off the lanes.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes Version: Aslan is old, the chick is too hot, reality will eventually set in.

We were supposed to "practice" but she is a server and a young gal and I guess there was some drama with her and her roommates so she moved home and I ended up not being able to do it on Thursday night because I was exhausted and had hockey at 6:30AM the next morning...and of course she has a "life" so she wasn't able to meet Friday/Saturday...so that was that.

The first 2 weeks she seemed kinda into me...these last couple weeks not so much. I think she just likes attention and guys buying her drinks....so a bowling league is a perfect setting for her. But the age gap (14 years) is just too significant. If she was mature for her age...."maybe"? But she's a typical 20 something female that has no idea what she wants or where shes going or anything like that. I'm still keeping the door open "just in case"...because she's cute and has a very appealing personality and a lot of energy...but it's a long shot at this point.

I'd still be interested in coaching her...I think she could average in the 150s with very minimal work...rather than 90-110 games. But...getting a 20 something female to commit to a practice is like trying to catch a fly with tweezers. Not to mention, the younger they are, the harder it is to keep them from being distracted by just about any shiny object or noise...so getting her to show up is one thing....getting her to actually practice (versus constantly wander around getting drinks and visiting)...also a long shot.

[jab5325]

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes Version: Aslan is old, the chick is too hot, reality will eventually set in.

We were supposed to "practice" but she is a server and a young gal and I guess there was some drama with her and her roommates so she moved home and I ended up not being able to do it on Thursday night because I was exhausted and had hockey at 6:30AM the next morning...and of course she has a "life" so she wasn't able to meet Friday/Saturday...so that was that.

The first 2 weeks she seemed kinda into me...these last couple weeks not so much. I think she just likes attention and guys buying her drinks....so a bowling league is a perfect setting for her. But the age gap (14 years) is just too significant. If she was mature for her age...."maybe"? But she's a typical 20 something female that has no idea what she wants or where shes going or anything like that. I'm still keeping the door open "just in case"...because she's cute and has a very appealing personality and a lot of energy...but it's a long shot at this point.

I'd still be interested in coaching her...I think she could average in the 150s with very minimal work...rather than 90-110 games. But...getting a 20 something female to commit to a practice is like trying to catch a fly with tweezers. Not to mention, the younger they are, the harder it is to keep them from being distracted by just about any shiny object or noise...so getting her to show up is one thing....getting her to actually practice (versus constantly wander around getting drinks and visiting)...also a long shot.

Isn't the rule half your age plus 7?

Go for it!

[Tony]

Not to mention, the younger they are, the harder it is to keep them from being distracted by just about any shiny object or noise...so getting her to show up is one thing....getting her to actually practice (versus constantly wander around getting drinks and visiting)...also a long shot.

This is the key, a few (many) drinks and the distraction factor are the best combination for your off the lane options !

[Jessiewoodard57]

Very advance but with a funny story

I put a dime on a board at the arrows. Instructions; hit the dime and the pocket. Once she was able to do this 90% of the time I added a quarter at the breakpoint. This was obviously much harder. So here is this tiny teen blowing the snot out of the pins and getting mad as heck. She kept missing the quarter on strikes and not hitting the pocket when she hit the quarter.
At one point she went GRRR and the tips of her ears were turning red. I knew she was mad and why. One of the house shot heroes came over and asked why she was so mad about striking.
"I missed at the breakpoint" she said
"So what, you still struck so what does it matter?"
"Averaging 230 on a house shot doesn't mean squat if I can't average 230 plus on a sport shot. I'm not here to bowl in fun leagues I'm here to try and become the best. In competition you take any strike you can get but in practice the point is to get it right. My alignment is off, I know it and it ticks me off that I haven't figured out the correct alignment for this pattern yet."

Now this jerk keeps running his mouth for a good half hour about what a waste of time it was and being "just a girl" she would never get anywhere. She got fed up, took a 20 out of her wallet and asked if he wanted to bowl. When she started to say what the pattern was he interrupted and said it didn't matter. She beat him 242-173.
Two weeks later we get there and he is practicing, with a piece of tape at the arrows lol

I'll bet he thinks twice about shooting his mouth off next time . We have this tiny and I do mean tiny maybe 95# young lady throwing a 14# ball like its nothing averaging in the 220s so I can just see this happening.

[Jessiewoodard57]

And I've had other bowlers come over and try to "help"...and give horribly ridiculous advice...I've had people just say, "you do whatever is comfortable and ignore all the others" and both irritate me...but at the end of the day...it's not going to matter.

The only reason I even was trying to help her in the first place is the fact that our team is first in the league. She likes that and hates to lose points. We are up by 10 points with a max of 7 points possible each week. Now for the update she finally was able to put the ball where I suggested and has improved her average this week by 40 pins. She even knew to make a ball change when needed , Proud of her! She is still in the 150 range but getting better.

[Aslan]

Isn't the rule half your age plus 7?

Go for it!

Actually, that rule would put her 1-2 years too young.

Mudpuppy Cliff Notes: Aslan is OLD.

[billf]

I have an age range I openly admit to 8-80. Unfortunately all the ones that can stand me are younger than 8 or over 80

[NewToBowling]

My only requirement is a pulse

[Aslan]

I have an age range I openly admit to 8-80. Unfortunately all the ones that can stand me are younger than 8 or over 80

Was there a "1" missing from "8-80"? I'm gonna assume "18-80". :eek:

[billf]

Yeah that's what I meant